Game: Logistico

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Toynan — 2008-07-26T13:05:39+00:00

Close up on the truck

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Capitaine Grappin — 2008-07-26T13:04:22+00:00

Two players starting the game with their plane at the same place

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Toynan — 2008-07-26T13:00:13+00:00

At the beginning of the game

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duchamp — 2008-04-05T14:12:03+00:00

Income indicator "at work": Each round the income increases ...

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duchamp — 2008-04-05T13:57:53+00:00

All 26 bonus cards, 2 x 6, 2 x 5, 1 x 4 for the different islands

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f-p-p-m — 2008-03-29T12:09:00+00:00

Thread: Re: English rules

TVis — 2008-03-02T02:10:36+00:00

ekted wrote:
... but not as good a full ruleset. Concur.

Rats. I came hoping this was going to tell me where to download a set.

Thread: Re: English rules

RPardoe — 2008-03-02T00:45:37+00:00

The total for that turn, which is in essence per vehicle. I have edited my answer above as it is not the total of all three vehicles.

Thread: Re: English rules

ekted — 2008-03-02T00:33:30+00:00

I took your "in total" answer to mean that my income for all 3 vehicles must exceed the total costs. So my question was related to the possibility that I deliver a good using my boat at a loss, planning to make it up with a deliver by truck which then gets blocked. So did you mean to answer "per vehicle" then?

Thread: Re: English rules

RPardoe — 2008-03-02T00:01:36+00:00

You complete your turn before others move so how can they block you?

The limitation is not that you must be profitable each turn. The limitation is that if you deliver, you must make more in income than in costs.

If you don't deliver, you still pay the costs (and the 3 Logi per good to carry them over to the next turn). So should you get blocked, you pay the costs, don't deliver and try to deliver elsewhere for a profit.

This was also discussed in this thread. You asked if this requirement is per turn or vehicle. The way the rules are written these are synonymous.

A game round will consist of:

Player A Boat Turn
Player B Boat Turn
...
Player A Plane Turn
Player B Plane Turn
...
Player A Truck Turn
Player B Truck Turn

so for each turn/vehicle, you can only deliver if the income offsets the costs. Otherwise, you must hold onto the goods until you can deliver for a profit.

Thread: Re: English rules

ekted — 2008-03-01T23:47:33+00:00

RPardoe wrote:
"You may not deliver goods if you you [sic] don't make profit in the turn in which you deliver."

Per vehicle or in total?
In total.
How can you guarantee that if you deliver a good, expecting to make a profit, that other players will not block you with subsequent vehicles?

Thread: Re: English rules

RPardoe — 2008-03-01T23:45:18+00:00

ekted wrote:
"You pay 3 Logi per good in your transport."
Does this mean all 3 vehicles?
Yes, this is 3 Logi per good in all your vehicles.

"If you reach the area on your bonuscard and there is no disc anymore, then you can show the card for the income in the third (grey) column."

You must move a vehicle there? Is this a free action?
No, movement is an action and has a cost. Showing the card is not an action.

"With the boat or truck you must do at least one action or you sell your boat or truck for 3 Logi."

Does this mean you gain money? Isn't this a good thing?
Yes, but once you sell the boat or truck - it is removed from the game and you can't buy it back. That isn't necessarily a good thing if done too early.

"You may not deliver goods if you you [sic] don't make profit in the turn in which you deliver."

Per vehicle or in total?
~~In total.~~ The rule is per turn. Since a turn consists of moving one vehicle type, you must make a profitable delivery per vehicle (not the total of all three in a given round.)

Thread: Re: English rules

ekted — 2008-03-01T23:10:14+00:00

RPardoe wrote:
...what questions do you have from the overview on Cwali's site that you are trying to answer?
"You pay 3 Logi per good in your transport."

Does this mean all 3 vehicles?

"If you reach the area on your bonuscard and there is no disc anymore, then you can show the card for the income in the third (grey) column."

You must move a vehicle there? Is this a free action?

"With the boat or truck you must do at least one action or you sell your boat or truck for 3 Logi."

Does this mean you gain money? Isn't this a good thing?

"You may not deliver goods if you you [sic] don't make profit in the turn in which you deliver."

Per vehicle or in total?

Thread: Re: English rules

larryjrice — 2008-03-01T22:42:47+00:00

My game comes with English rules. That quote sounds like standard type they include for all their imported games.

Thread: Re: English rules

ekted — 2008-03-01T22:40:40+00:00

RPardoe wrote:
Why would retailers need to carry a translation of the rules...English rules are included in the game.
Fair Play says:

"This game is imported from Europe. It may contain components and/or instructions in a different language. If you are not able to find English translations, we will do our best to help find them."

Is that not true?

Thread: Re: English rules

jearles — 2008-03-01T21:59:48+00:00

I don't know of an published set of English rules, outside the game itself.

The "overview" contains approximately 85% of the rulebook. The rules are four pages long, with plenty of space and diagrams.

Page 1: Picture down to Preparation
Page 2: Preparation - Use of your boat
Page 3: Use of your plane - Transfer of Goods
Page 4: Use of your bonus cards - End of the Game

The overview boils the rules down into an example format, and should gve you enough of an idea about the game to determine interest.

Are there any specific questions you have?

Thread: Re: English rules

RPardoe — 2008-03-01T21:55:01+00:00

Why would retailers need to carry a translation of the rules...English rules are included in the game.

And if you are curious about reading the rules prior to purchase...what questions do you have from the overview on Cwali's site that you are trying to answer?

Thread: English rules

ekted — 2008-03-01T21:39:42+00:00

I'm interested in this game, but the retailers that carry it do not have even a translation of the rules. I've read the overview on the Cwali site. It's very nice, but not as good a full ruleset.

Thread: Re: 2 Player Logistico

ekted — 2008-02-29T04:55:58+00:00

Any thoughts in the last 3 years?

Thread: Boats, Planes & an Automobile, (well a Truck actually)...Move it NOW!!

custom golf clubs — 2008-02-29T03:22:16+00:00

Logistico was a game that caught my eye the first time I read about it. It wasn't until today that I finally got to play it and it WAS WORTH THE WAIT! This game is just plain Pick-up and Deliver goodness.

I played two player with my 8-1/2 yr old son and we both had a great time. The rules were simple but the gameplay was a good depth. The idea of the game is to deliver boxes (cubes) from their starting point to any city (small disk) of the same color. Once you make this delivery you score points for the delivery. The trick is that it cost you fuel & money to pick up a box and transport it, and finally deliver it. This is a great mechanic. For example to move the farthest it costs you $20 to go and get someting, pick it up, and deliver it to it's destination, but in the beginnig of the game it only pays you $8 for the delivery. OOPS! don't make that mistake too many times or you will be in the hole before you can say Logistico. Oh by the way if you let a box sit on your transport device it spoils and costs you $3 per box per turn.

It took us a few rounds of Boat, Plane, Truck deliveries to figure out that the only way to make money at this game is to perform multiple deliveries on a single turn. The one thing my son learned fast was that if you left a box sitting in an airport someone else is more that willing to fly by and pick it up. He also learned how to return the favor very quickly. For most of the game both of us were hovering around $30 which is to say we were $10 in the hole. A couple of $48 delivery trips at the end of the game and one special delivery by dad worth $34 gave dad a $14 victory in the end $87 total to $73.

I can't wait for the next game.

Thread: When do you get the money for deliveries?

pitris — 2007-11-14T11:40:30+00:00

Immediately or when you end your actions?

I ask this because when a player is in debt he can make only 3 actions per transport. If I owe 5 to the bank and make a delivery on my 3rd action can I get the money for it and then proceed to make a 4th action or am I limited to 3 actions?

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HRune — 2007-09-08T09:47:05+00:00

Playing Logistico under the watchful eyes of the author

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gmcnish — 2007-06-13T13:32:22+00:00

Cover

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myadestes — 2007-05-11T18:31:32+00:00

Bjorneo? Seriously?

Thread: Re: Running the tightest ship (plane, and truck) in shipping

fizzix — 2007-03-02T16:54:53+00:00

Glamorous Mucus wrote:

One small correction: the start player does not rotate each round. The same player starts every round. Your method of playing is a variant ....

I'll have to try it with a non-rotating start player and see if it's any different.

I've found the game most satisfying with two players. You can do a little more long-term planning when there's only one other player to keep track of.

Agreed. I usually play this two players. There's more thinking involved and less need to play in a cut-throat style.

Thread: Re: Running the tightest ship (plane, and truck) in shipping

Glamorous Mucus — 2007-03-02T00:30:07+00:00

Very good review, Michael.

One small correction: the start player does not rotate each round. The same player starts every round. Your method of playing is a variant that was suggested early on by those who perceived an early-player advantage. I haven't noticed any advantage based on turn order in the rules as written, but the rotating start player variant seems like it should work fine.

I've found the game most satisfying with two players. You can do a little more long-term planning when there's only one other player to keep track of. As more players are added, I begin to feel sensory overload trying to track all the colored bits littering the board, and to figure out what is likely to be moving where and when. It's hard enough for me to figure out what I'm trying to accomplish!

Thread: Re: Running the tightest ship (plane, and truck) in shipping

fizzix — 2007-02-25T06:36:54+00:00

DougOrleans wrote:

And I feel pretty sure there's a good game-design reason for the delivery payout > cost rule, but I haven't figured it out yet. Maybe it's to prevent people from making unprofitable deliveries just to screw someone else?

That was our thought too but the rule still feels wierd.

Thread: Re: Running the tightest ship (plane, and truck) in shipping

DougOrleans — 2007-02-25T02:23:40+00:00

I don't think the luck of the initial cube placement matters much because the value of early deliveries is so much less than deliveries later in the game. But I haven't played it enough to know that this is true in practice.

And I feel pretty sure there's a good game-design reason for the delivery payout > cost rule, but I haven't figured it out yet. Maybe it's to prevent people from making unprofitable deliveries just to screw someone else? Maybe it slows the game down a bit, to better reward long-term planning?

Thread: Running the tightest ship (plane, and truck) in shipping

fizzix — 2007-02-23T18:32:15+00:00

The term Logistics originated in a military context, referring to how personnel acquire, transport, and store equipment. The concept has been adapted by business and means the process by which resources are acquired, transported and stored along the supply chain. Proper logistical procedures result in cost savings for a company. When talking about UPS or FedEX, logistics is the lifeblood of the company.

OK, now that I’ve dazzled you with that gem from Economics 101 I can tell you about Logistico. The game sure sounds like the word “Logistics” and for good reason: the object of the game is to efficiently deliver goods. The board is a very neat 2 piece assembly with puzzle-edges that hold the pieces together. It depicts an archipelago consisting of 5 islands. Each island is subdivided into between 6 and 8 regions and the ocean in-between the islands is also divided into regions. Roads run through all of the island regions and neighboring islands are connected by bridges.

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To set the game up you randomly place a wooden disc and a wooden cube (both are very Age of Steam – ish), each in one of 9 colors on each land region. No region gets a cube and disc of the same color. The cubes represent goods that need delivery and the discs represent demand for those goods. Each player has one nifty wooden boat, plane, and truck token which are randomly placed on the board via a deck of small flimsy cards.

The game is played in rounds with a rotating start player for each round. Every round consists of a phase where, in turn order, all players move their boats, then there is a similar phase for planes, and finally a similar phase for trucks. The phases are always in this order: boats first, planes second, trucks last. In each of these phases you will use action points to either: load a cube on a vehicle, deliver a cube, or move a vehicle one space. When moving a boat, it can only move on sea spaces of course, but it can pick up and deliver to the adjacent shoreline. When moving a plane, moving one space means moving to any airfield space on an island. When moving a truck you don’t have to follow roads from region to region but then you incur extra costs. Transferring cubes between your vehicles is free but can only happen if the vehicles are in the same place. You have a limit of no more than 8 moves with a particular vehicle during each round.

After moving a vehicle, you then pay an amount of money (score) based on the number of moves you made. The amount is found on a chart printed on the board and the cost increases are non-linear (e.g. if you make only one move it costs 1 point but if you make all 8 moves it cost 20 points). If during your move, you make a delivery, the delivered cube and demand disc are removed from the board. You then get money (score) according to a chart that is printed on the board. These payouts increase as the game progresses and a marker keeps track of the current payout level.

After all three phases, if any of your vehicles still have cubes on board you pay an upkeep fee. The delivery payout marker advances. The game repeats until a round when there are six or fewer demand discs on the board.

There are a few more weird rules. Each player gets three bonus cards showing regions on the board where a player can earn extra points if he/she makes a delivery to that region. Well I guess that isn’t a weird rule. The weird rule is that you aren’t allowed to make a delivery if the cost of making the delivery is more than the payout. You still are allowed to make the moves at a loss, just not the delivery. So for example: if I make 8 moves with my boat, which costs 20, to make a delivery that only pays out 12 I can’t make the delivery this turn, instead I would have to wait until the next turn. I have no idea why this rule exists.

I find the game to be an enjoyable mental challenge but in a bean-counter, puzzle-solving kind of way. I imagine this game could suffer from huge downtimes if everyone min/maxes their turns but I don’t play like that. There is a learning curve to this game. Most people don’t understand the role of planes at first but once you realize that the plane acts as a connection between the truck and boat, you’ll start to see all kinds of cool delivery possibilities. Also most people don’t appreciate how the payouts increase over time so they rush to inefficiently make deliveries early in the game. Deciding when to make deliveries is a key part of the strategy in this game because the longer you wait to make a delivery the more it pays but you also risk losing the delivery to another player.

Player interaction in this game is pretty minimal: if you get to a cube or disc first you can steal a potential delivery from another player. That’s about it. It plays well with two, three, or four but is very tight with five

There seems to be a significant luck factor in the game because the initial placement of cubes and vehicles can lead to easy points for one player and great difficultly for another. Also, the bonuses might be easier to attain for some players. In my plays I haven’t found luck to be that much of an issue because a player with easy deliveries is usually “attacked” by the other players who go out of their way to deny that player deliveries.

Logistico is a straightforward pick-up-and-deliver game that dispenses with building an infrastructure (like a rail game) or a production element (like Roads & Boats). If you like to plan ahead and spend money wisely (not all gamers do) you’ll probably enjoy this.

Thread: Re: Where to Buy?

dbmite — 2006-11-08T19:04:44+00:00

Thanks Chad,
I went to the Marketplace and bought it.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Thread: Re: Where to Buy?

pdahl — 2006-11-08T17:40:28+00:00

http://www.boardgameseeker.com/ is a good way to check around quickly.

It does list 3 different internet retailers, although they may be out of stock and just haven't updated the seeker's database.

Hope that helps!

Peter

Thread: Re: Where to Buy?

chaddyboy_2000 — 2006-11-08T16:57:39+00:00

Well, I have one for sale in the marketplace!

Thread: Where to Buy?

dbmite — 2006-11-08T16:53:32+00:00

Where can I buy this game? It seems to be unavailable at all the major sellers.

Thanks

Thread: Re: Question Re: Airplanes

dklx3 — 2006-08-21T17:50:09+00:00

The order is boat-plane-train. After the initial easy delivery frenzy, getting a cube to its partner can be prohibitively expensive if you have to boat or truck it around the world. While specifics of the game may mitigate against it, the normally stronger strategy is to have your boat and your truck on different continents. Make sure your boat ends its move on the airport space (after picking up a cube needed on the truck's island). On the plane's turn, it can fly to the truck island (or first to the boat island to get the cube if necessary) where the truck can pick up the cube and deliver it.

An efficient througput can be 2-3 moves per vehicle. Late in the game, that is a good healthy surplus over the value of the delivery. Nonetheless, planes do sit around some. I think this was envisioned by the designer as the plane is the one transportation device that does not HAVE to move and cannot be sold.

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itiswon — 2006-07-21T06:10:17+00:00

shipping

Thread: Re: ending player advantage

dkeisen — 2006-07-06T06:11:16+00:00

We discussed this in the game just completed. I know the player who was last in turn order felt very hosed.

The Puerto Rico idea came up, but I think I like the Tikalish auction for turn order instead. This allows a player to leave a cube hanging on the board instead of having to pick it up if he's willing to bid enough VP to get good turn order.

Only problem seemed to be that a lot of the appeal of the game is the relatively quick play time and the simplicity of the rules. Adding another layer like this onto it makes one wonder if this kills the whole purpose of the game.

Thread: Logistico: Review

gschloesser — 2006-02-23T01:01:35+00:00

Cwali
3 - 5 Players, 60 - 90 minutes
designed by: Cornel van Moorsel
reviewed by: Greg J. Schloesser

Note: This review also appears in Counter Magazine #23

Cornel van Moorsel has developed into quite the designer, with a wide range of games under the Cwali label to his credit. Several of his games have garnered nominations for the International Gamers Award, and Zoo-Sim, his design from last year, has been re-issued by Zoch as O Zoo La Mio.

Like Friedemann Friese, for me he has the reputation of a designer whose games I must try. This year was no exception, so while at the Spiele Faire in Essen, I made an appointment to play his new game Logistico. I enjoyed the game and parted with some precious euros to purchase the game.

The premise of the game is to deliver goods to their destinations using three modes of transportation: boats, planes and trucks. Players move their vehicles about the board, picking up goods and making the deliveries to their required destinations. Deliveries yield a profit, but the greater the distance traveled, the greater the costs. The payoffs for deliveries increase as the game progresses, and each player has three secret destinations that provide even higher yields. The idea is to set up routes and coordinate the movements of your vehicles in the most efficient manner possible so as to minimize costs and maximize profits.

Continuing the trend of recent Cwali releases, the components in Logistico are top-notch. In addition to a large, two-piece interlocking board, the game contains an abundance of wood: cubes, disks, planes, boats and trucks in assorted colors. The only sub-par component is the deck of secret destination cards, which is printed on thin cardstock and not laminated. Fortunately, they aren�t a central component of the game and are not handled much.

The board depicts five continents, each further subdivided into numerous territories. The continents are separated by several oceans, which are also divided into segments to regulate movement of the ships. The continents are connected at a few points by bridges, facilitating movement of the trucks from continent to continent. Along with a scoring track that rings the edge of the board, there are tracks depicting the financial cost of movement, which increases exponentially with each space moved, and the yields of successful deliveries, which increase with each passing turn.

The commodities are represented by those ubiquitous wooden cubes, four each in nine different colors. There is a matching set of colored disks, which serve as the destinations for the commodities. Commodities and their delivery locations are set out randomly, as are the starting locations for each player�s vehicles, which should make for a different feel each game. Some have concerns that this random set-up could unduly favor certain players and hinder others. However, since the payoffs for deliveries escalate substantially as the game progresses, an early advantage can be fairly easily offset by careful planning and the establishment of lucrative routes.

Game play is quite simple, yet the "thinking" involved in order to carefully arrange trade routes and make profitable deliveries is quite challenging. All players move their boats, then their planes and finally their trucks. Trucks move via roadways, but can travel off-road at an increased cost. Boats move across the water, while airplanes can only move between airports, of which there is only one per continent. Trucks and boats MUST be moved at least one space per turn, but airplanes do not. At any time, players may sell their boat or truck, but it is then removed from the game and may not be re-purchased. Thus, it is usually wise to not sell a vehicle until very late in the game.

A player may move each vehicle as far as he desires, but the cost to move each vehicle gets progressively more expensive. Deciding just how far to move each vehicle is tough � and one of the key decisions that must be made on each and every turn. The cost of continuing movement must be weighed against the payoff for completing the delivery. Each delivery must produce a profit, so these costs must be weighed carefully and routes planned efficiently. Maximizing profit is the ultimate objective of the game.

Commodities may be picked-up by vehicles and transported by land, sea and/or air in order to reach their destinations. Each vehicle has a different carrying capacity, but players are best advised to resist the temptation of grabbing a bunch of commodities and storing them on their vehicles. Why? At the end of each turn, players must pay a holding cost for each good they are carrying. This gets very expensive very quickly. Try to avoid holding too many commodities from turn to turn.

When a commodity is successfully transported to its destination, the player receives a payoff. This payoff begins relatively small, but increases with the passing of each turn. So, deliveries made later in the game are far more lucrative than early deliveries. Further, each player begins the game with three �secret� destination cards. If the player makes a delivery to one of these locations, the payoff is even higher. These increased payoffs help overcome any advantageous start-up positions players may enjoy and should soothe the fears of those who have complained about this random set-up feature.

Once a delivery is made, the commodity cube and destination disk are removed from the game. Thus, the number of commodities and destinations will decrease steadily as the game progresses. When there are six or fewer destination disks remain, one more round is played and then the game ends. The player with the most money is victorious.

Although decidedly dry, I find the game quite stimulating, with the planning required to establish efficient routes and deliveries challenging and mentally stimulating. Players must coordinate the movement of their three vehicles in efforts to establish efficient and profitable delivery routes. Deciding when to continue moving at increased costs versus ceasing movement, but paying the �holding� costs can be tough � and is always critical. Choosing which goods to pick-up and where to deliver them also cause dilemmas. A sense of urgency is added to these decisions based on the potential actions of your opponents. It can be quite frustrating to watch an opponent scoop a good or make a delivery to your planned destination prior to you being able to complete yours. Frustrating, yes -- but it is a sweet frustration and part of the beauty of the game.

Logistico is a mentally challenging game, requiring careful planning, good decisions and optimal coordination and execution. It is another winner from the gaming Dutchman.

Thread: Re: Broken or are these just my 2 cents?

GRDavies — 2006-01-27T08:16:19+00:00

Than that should be on the cover of the box or even on the site of Cwali, because i have a player group of 5. I bought the game because it looks promising and in practice it doesn't. That's why.

Thread: Re: Broken or are these just my 2 cents?

clearclaw — 2006-01-22T18:14:57+00:00

GRDavies wrote:
Based on 2 plays with 5 players and all 5 were new to the game.

How many times do the rules and even the designer need to state that you SHOULD NOT teach logistico to more than 3 players at a time?

As you can see i have my doubts about the rules. The idea of the game is great, in practice (at least with 5 players) it doesn't.

Logitico is best with 3 players, 4 in a pinch.

Thread: Broken or are these just my 2 cents?

GRDavies — 2006-01-22T14:21:20+00:00

Based on 2 plays with 5 players and all 5 were new to the game. With 5 the starting position of the boat and the truck is a too big of a luckfactor. Second game we altered the rules, by playing the turnorder à la Puerto Rico. Since we altered the rules we came up with idea's like: starting position determined by the players self à la Catan (but which vehicle first, the boat or the truck? The plain isn't bothersome of a starting-position-problem). Maybe the posibility of loading the truck on the plain. Maybe letting the map not being an archipel but a globe, so ships can "leave" on an edge and "enter" on the other side of the map. Sort of the same idea but with more "bridges" to accomadate the truck. Maybe 2 trucks and boats per player?

As you can see i have my doubts about the rules. The idea of the game is great, in practice (at least with 5 players) it doesn't.

Thread: Re: Starting Positions

shawn_low — 2005-11-15T01:35:31+00:00

That's a grand idea.

Thread: Starting Positions

Carver — 2005-07-18T22:57:39+00:00

This is another game where the luck (or ill-luck) of starting positions dertermined by a card deal can wreck one's early game Even as few as two ships starting on the same island close to one another can mean that the player moving last finds everything of value has been taken. Meanwhile the lone player the other side of the board is laughing!

We now play that if a player finds himself on the same island with the same mode of transport as another player he can ask to draw another start location card (and so on until that situation no longer applies)

Thread: [SR] GSG 6/14/2005

Spielfreak — 2005-06-16T22:55:01+00:00

LOGISTICO: Jeremy, Phil, Mark

This was the first time that any of us had journeyed to the Logi Archipelago. In this game, players try to make deliveries using their three vehicles. In a round all players take actions with their ships, then with their planes, and finally with their trucks. The goal is to deliver a colored cube to an area that contains a matching colored disk. Once delivered, both the cube and disk are removed from play. The payout increases each round, and each player also has three hidden destinations that yield greater payouts than normal ones. The game ends a around after the round in which six destination disks remain on the board.

After initial vehicle placement and hidden destination distribution, I realized that two of my hidden destinations could be completed by the yellow player. Naturally, I was not yellow, but rather Mark was, and sure enough he completed deliveries to those two destinations in the first turn. D'oh! He, of course, had no way of knowing those were my hidden destinations (although he probably had a good idea after I yelled and cursed at the end of the round and then showed him my cards). It took a lot of effort, but I managed to make enough deliveries to cover for these lost opportunities. But Jeremy proved to be a slightly better cube juggler, taking the win in a close game. The scores were something like: 108, 104, and 103. There's probably room for more screwage than we employed in this game. Also, vehicle capacity seemed to be under-utilized, with only three occasions existing where a vehicle held more than one good during a round. We'll have to play this one again sometime soon.

Thread: Question Re: Airplanes

imbiginjapan — 2005-06-15T13:23:02+00:00

I played my first game of this (a three player game) recently, and none of seemed to get a handle on the use of airplanes. After the first couple turns they just sat there... it seemed the benefit of loading goods onto an airplane to get them somwhere else quickly was constantly being outweighed by the cost of getting a different unit in place to deliver the items to and from the airplane.

I was just curious if others have run into this problem or found novel ways to use the airplane in conjunction with other units.

Thread: Re: ending player advantage

Mordachai — 2005-05-07T01:02:29+00:00

This is interesting because in our first game the last player had a real disadvantage because of the position. Several times during the game the other players snatched away a designated cube or delivered to the designated target just before the last player could do it. Thus the last player got stuck with goods that was hard to deliver which resulted in a bleeding bank account.

We were thinking along the lines of a rotating starting player - of such a kind found in Puerto Rico.

Thread: Re:Question regarding profit movent cap

DaviddesJ — 2004-12-13T22:35:46+00:00

Hmm, I read it again and now it seems to me that you have to make a net profit using only that vehicle, not a net profit for all vehicles combined. So ignore my last question.

Thread: Re:Question regarding profit movent cap

DaviddesJ — 2004-12-13T22:31:26+00:00

I have another question about the "profit" requirement. What if you make a delivery with your boat, spending more than you receive but expecting to make a net profit that turn based on your truck delivery, but then some other player does something (e.g., delivers to the disk you were planning to deliver to) that prevents you from making a net profit for the turn?

Thread: Re:Solitaire Logistico

mlvanbie — 2004-09-17T19:40:33+00:00

Nick Danger (#26713),

What do you do if there are multiple cubes present? Is there any provision for removal of goods/discs from the same area many times? (Otherwise you can cheaply build a stockpile on a space that was chosen at the beginning of the game, waiting for it to increase in value.)

Michael

Thread: Session Report

Norbert Chan — 2004-07-09T20:15:56+00:00

We went to Subway for lunch and Craig brought out Logistico. It's designed by Corne van Moorsel, 2003 and published by the designer under his company name of Cwali. Quick synopsis: In Logistico, players own 1 boat, plane and truck. There are 5 islands, each island has 6 spaces on it. Each space is seeded with a circlular disk and a cube.(I think there are five different colors, and each space must be seeded with different colored disk and cubes). The cubes represent goods, and the disks represent destinations. To move a region in a sea, land or fly to an airport cost 1 action point (AP), action points cost more for more you use per turn, at a rate of 1/1, 2/2, 3/4, 4/6, 5/9, 6/12. 7/15, 8/20. To pick up a good costs 1 action point, storing a good costs an AP and so does dropping off one good. Planes are restricted to only moving to airports, boats must stay on the water etc and in each phase, in player order, players move their boats, planes and trucks respectively. Once a good gets delivered, both the good and destination disk are removed from the game. Payout for the goods are determined by a sliding scale (Initially $8 or so, then going down to $24 at the end). When a round begins with 6 or less cubes/disks on the game, players take one more turn before the game ends. Players can also sell their boats or trucks for $3, and they start the game with $40. Players are also dealt out 3 special cards; if they player makes a good delivery in that region, they get a bonus, dependent on where the sliding scale (up to a maximum of $8).
In our game, Don went first. Gary pulled out to an early lead by looking for simple goods to be delivered. I stored a few yellow goods, thinking I could sell multiple goods in one delivery area, but boy was I in for a shock when they informed me I could only sell 1 good. Next time I better pay attention to the rules! Don and Craig optimized the storage times and when they delivered to score well. Gary and I also noticed something: since we went behind Don and Craig, we were left with the refuse they left behind and there was nothing we could do about it. Gary suggested a way to reverse turn order. Interestingly enough, the game ended with the scores in the turn order: Scores:
Don 114, Craig 97, Norbert 76, Gary 69. I have to admit, I didn't even know what I was doing. Craig mentioned in a 3 player game, only 1 person broke 40. The game has a slight abstract feel to it, so maybe that's why Don, Gary and I didn't warm up to it. It's still okay, but I think the player order has to be fixed. Mind you I have only played once, so I need to reserve judgement.

Thread: Session Report

daw65 — 2004-07-01T14:46:20+00:00

Three of us (Sterling, Rich and Dave) gathered at Dave's house for gaming tonight. The nominees for first game were the Settlers Historical Scenarios, Logistico, and Industria, and though the vote was close between the first two, the choice was Logistico.

The game started with Rich and Sterling spending money to get themselves set up. Dave, on the other hand, played more conservatively, shipping for a profit of 2. Generally, Dave continued his conservative play, though at times he carried goods over turns. After the first few turns, Sterling and Rich caught up to Dave, and Dave came back some, and scores were realy close. A brief repeat of tactics again saw Dave pull ahead, as Sterling and Rich spent more to set themselves up. As the game drew close to the end, Dave found himself with large distances to travel to deliver his goods, leaving him with small profit margins. The others were able to make closer delivery runs, spending less and keeping more. And when the final delivery was made, Rich found himself the winner, with 85 points, to Sterling's 81 and Dave's 74.

Personal thoughts: Wow, it is quite the puzzle. Certainly not a rollicking good time, but for me it was a really fun exercise. Still I don't think it'll come out lots -- maybe two or three times a year.

Thread: 2 Player Logistico

100%Blade — 2004-03-12T12:53:41+00:00

Played this for the first time the other night but there were only 2 of us. From what I had read I was expecting it to be a very tight game with profits difficult to come by (and possibly even being negative). As it turned out it was nothing like this with final scores something like 160 and 95.

Initial moves seemed very obvious after the random set up and although I was expecting this to change, it didn't - the following moves also seemed relatively straight forward. The whole thing left me feeling rather unsatisfied. I could see it being tighter with more players but how often do you really have to make decisions on which goods to go for or is it always pretty obvious.

I want to like it and probably will try it with more players but I'm a bit skeptical at the moment. I certainly don't think I'll try it with 2 again.
Michael

Thread: Session Report

ekh_86 — 2004-03-04T22:22:54+00:00

Allen, Bruce and I kicked off our day at Game Gathering 1 with Logistico, a game new to all of us. Bruce jumped out to an early lead by avoiding goods storage through the first few turns. Allen and I both held some goods and kept the action count down. During turns 5-6, both Allen and I made deliveries to our bonus provinces and finally caught Bruce. Over the final two turns of the game, I was able to make two deliveries versus Allen and Bruce's single deliveries to squeak out a victory.

I really like this game. The transport modes in the game reflect the real-life models pretty closely (ships are good for large cargos on intercontinental or coastal trips, planes are good for shuttling goods between airports but nothing else, etc.)

I had been on the fence about ordering this game, and had failed to play the game at SoCal Games Day 15 in January. However, when Boulder Games put it on a Saturday Night Special, I couldn't resist and ordered it. I am glad I did, and plan to play again soon.

Thread: Session Report

PBrennan — 2004-02-18T22:28:17+00:00

2 plays, both 3 players. This one suits me right down to the ground. I love pick up and deliver games - crayon rails, roads & boats, age of steam. And this brings another a nice twist on the genre to the table. Do the easy deliveries first. Then start thinking long term where you want your boat and truck to be a few turns on as the easy deliveries disappear. Then have your boat, plane and truck all work in unison, gradually migrating around the countryside delivering. Oh, and watch out for being scooped by the competition. Which reminds me, after the first play, we instantly moved to having the start player rotate each turn. As most turns end after a delivery has been made (extra actions get more expensive, and you don't want to hold onto cubes due to holding costs), it seems grossly unfair that the start player remains unchanged, so they'll always be the one every turn who gets to out-scoop everyone else on pickups first next turn - the poor old player going last would have to incur holding costs each turn so as not to get out-scooped. Anyway, easily fixed. I've enjoyed. Not sure I want to play with more than 3 players (downtime, too much scooping), and I'm not sure whether this one might dry up after a while (see notes on little cubes at top), but I like it. An 8 after 2 plays.

Thread: Re:Solitaire Logistico

tsantos — 2004-02-17T03:11:42+00:00

Nick Danger (#26713),

Works pretty well. The constant attrition of resources and demands does a reasonable job at simulating other players. This isn't my favorite game but this solitaire version makes it a more useful game on my shelf.

Thread: Re:Some combinatorial applications of spacefilling curves

msaya — 2004-02-03T07:04:45+00:00

Interesting article! Made me think of the knight's tour: visiting all 64 squares of a chessboard once each via a series of knight moves. There are many solutions, including some that are amazingly elegant and symmetrical.

I agree, it doesn't translate to Logistico exactly, at least not to multi-player games. But perhaps a good solitaire variant could be devised along the lines of 36 deliveries for the most Logis in the fewest turns. Hmm, might be worth a try . . .

Thread: Some combinatorial applications of spacefilling curves

OusterX — 2004-02-03T02:09:31+00:00

Okay, if you REALLY want to win at Logistico, check out this article....

http://www.isye.gatech.edu/people/faculty/John_Bartholdi/mow...

Granted, it may not translate, but playing Logistico is basically an example of a Travelling Salesman Problem....

Thread: Solitaire Logistico

Nick Danger — 2004-01-29T18:57:15+00:00

Here's a way to play this fun game in solitaire form.

All rules of the game remain intact except in regard to the following:

After using the area cards to place your boat, plane, and truck - shuffle those three cards back into the deck and place it face down near the board.

After each complete round of movement boat/plane/truck, draw one area card and if there is a cube present in that area remove it from play. If there is no cube, then remove the disk if present. If there is neither a cube or disk in the area then just discard the card.

Keep playing until you decide there is no more profit to be made and have sold off your boat and truck.

You can consider the game won if you can finish with a 200+ score.

Tweak as desired. Enjoy!

Thread: Session Report

LCG Mike — 2004-01-26T14:05:26+00:00

Played this with 3 players for the first time. My one previous game have been 2-player. That was interesting, if a little dry.

With three, there's twice as much cargo theft going on. In a two-player game you can almost always safely drop off undelivered cargo, then pick it up on your next turn. In this game, that almost never happened, with players opting to pay the cost to carry it between rounds.

None of us thought very hard during out turns. With the wrong people this could turn into a brain-burner with lots of down time. We played it lightly and it was tons of fun. There were still a couple cool moves, where people managed to coordinate their vehicles for multiple deliveries in one turn. So it was both fast and interesting. In terms of total time, we played this game, and an entire game of Puerto Rico, in the same amount of time the other group of three played Magna Grecia.

At the start of the game, the start player complained he was always one turn behind, and missing deliveries because of the unfair turn order. He ended up winning the game.

Overall, an excellent game. Everyone wants to play again. This is a game where more players = more chaos, so it might be best with three. But I'd like to try and see with four.

Thread: Re:Logi Questions

alextrov — 2004-01-15T01:13:58+00:00

cwali (#25624),

Thanks Cornè. I agree about the unloading on bridge interpretation was clear. The original question was about to stop the truck on a bridge at the end of its movement.
Since rules states the trucks stop on areas only (i.e. the rule about 2 trucks in the same area) I guess it is NOT allowed to stop a truck on a bridge. Correct?

Alex

Thread: Re:Logi Questions

cwali — 2004-01-13T11:19:50+00:00

Here Mr. van Moorsel.

The rules say:
You can unload a good in an area without demand for that good.
And the rules make a distinction between land areas and bridges at the costs for moving your truck. So I would think that unloading a good on a bridge is not allowed.

Transfer of a good between boat and truck when your truck is on a bridge?
The rules say that your boat must be in a sea space adjacent to the land area with your truck. The first page of the rules tells that there are 36 land areas. So that's not allowed.

By the way: Unloading a good to save the costs for holding it in your transporter, can only be profitable if you load it again 2 rounds later. If you load it again next round, then your costs for the 2 extra actions is always equal or more than the costs for goods in your transport (except when you don't move but then unloading and loading makes no sense at all).