Game: Lucky Loop

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

unruled — 2008-07-01T12:34:13+00:00

alvae64 wrote:
Thank you for your assistance... it is damn shame that someone who is willing to help has to be a complete jerk about it. Maybe in the future you can set aside your own personal insecurities and actually stick to answering the question, as opposed to being so negative. Then again I guess that is the best you can do.

Rather than calling me an insecure negative jerk, please just take the time to think and read before you post if you don't like it when people point out that you are failing to do so.

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

alvae64 — 2008-06-30T20:10:39+00:00

Thank you for your assistance... it is damn shame that someone who is willing to help has to be a complete jerk about it. Maybe in the future you can set aside your own personal insecurities and actually stick to answering the question, as opposed to being so negative. Then again I guess that is the best you can do.

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

unruled — 2008-06-30T19:22:49+00:00

alvae64 wrote:
So... If a player maxes out one plan, and no one can play a higher card the game ends in a stalemate? If rules were perfect then there would be no such thing as errata and rules forums that point out the need for exceptions or rules modifications... Ray.

I'd say all it points out is that you are so fixated on one sentence that you have forgotten how to play the game.

Replacing a single card in a stunt is NOT a requirement. Just replace the whole damn thing and get on with it.

Establishing the Stunt Routines

Firstly you play the appropriate cards from your hand.

Either one complete stunt routine comprising of 3 cards or an appropriate individual card.

Laying a 3-card routine:
Three flight cards of appropriate colours are placed on the chosen stunt routine on the border of the game board. If there are already cards on the routine, these are first discarded on the appropriate throwaway piles.

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

alvae64 — 2008-06-30T17:39:33+00:00

So... If a player maxes out one plan, and no one can play a higher card the game ends in a stalemate? If rules were perfect then there would be no such thing as errata and rules forums that point out the need for exceptions or rules modifications... Ray.

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

unruled — 2008-06-30T12:36:59+00:00

alvae64 wrote:
Now the question happens when all three stunts are maxed out... do you allow for that instance for a player to play a lower card since there is nothing higher than a 12?

Eric

If the rules say it has to be higher, then it has to be higher. If there was to be an exception, that exception would be in the rules.

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

alvae64 — 2008-06-08T11:30:28+00:00

Now the question happens when all three stunts are maxed out... do you allow for that instance for a player to play a lower card since there is nothing higher than a 12?

Eric

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

andreww — 2008-06-03T05:35:12+00:00

For what its worth, my daughter and I were smoked in a game tonight by my wife and son. We played with the "you must increase the difficulty" rules and it added to play value substantially. I needed to make a certain play and couldn't because I didn't have the cards. This was because I never wanted to waste a turn of rolling to draw cards. My son, who won by a hefty margin, spent a couple of turns swapping cards.

The requirement of increasing the difficulty when you do a single card swap changes this from an entirely luck based game to a luck-and-strategy game.

Andrew

Thread: Re: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

lenrob49 — 2007-10-02T17:06:21+00:00

You probably already found the answer to this question but, just in case, if you use the English rules found on the Uberplay site; http://www.uberplay.com/games/limited/luckylooprules.pdfrather than the ones uploaded here this rule and others are clearer. In this case they state in both places that the new card must have a higher degree of difficulty. By the way, greetings to you from far off North Lethbridge.

Thread: Replacing 1 Card: Must the value be higher?

apotheos — 2007-07-02T23:21:24+00:00

The text in the english rules say "it has to be the same color but does not need to have a higher degree of difficulty", but the diagram says it DOES have to have a higher score.

I assume the diagram is right and the rules text is wrong. Can someone confirm?

Also, I'm assuming you must attempt to fly the routine played against (either with three cards or one card). But I don't see this stated in the rules. Can someone confirm?

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

Joe Casadonte — 2007-05-10T02:01:07+00:00

sisteray wrote:
3. Jump on the other end.

You big bully.....Lucky Loop is a fine family game. Why would you want to flip it around the room making its bits spill out?

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

sisteray — 2007-04-29T06:42:03+00:00

I know a variant that vastly improves Lucky Loop, but it requires some extra components.

1. Take a block of wood and place a board on it.
2. Place LL on one end of the board.
3. Jump on the other end.

Image

Badgeroonie — 2007-04-03T13:14:21+00:00

Card backs

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Badgeroonie — 2007-04-03T13:13:21+00:00

Dice shaker, dice, markers and chits

Image

dsmeyer — 2007-03-10T04:20:47+00:00

Madeline (6) dominates us in her first game.

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dsmeyer — 2007-03-10T04:12:57+00:00

First turn of my first game

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gudo13 — 2007-01-24T07:32:53+00:00

Thread: Luck Lucky, Lucky Luck Loop Review

Spacehulk — 2007-01-15T01:47:22+00:00

Lucky Loop is a fun light hearted game that can be fun with the right group.

The concept:
Score points for performing four different tricks in a biplane acrobatics competition. The theme is pasted on dryly. At no time did I ever feel I was involved in a flying competition. I, in fact tried to bring sme sembleance of flying into the game and it just doesn't fly.
5/10.

The Gameplay:
The gameplaty is largely luck based but you can largely mitigate risk by choosing the difficulty of your tricks and by accumulating re-rolls. There is very little player interaction however and no way real way to knock down the leader in any way.
7/10.

Conclusion:
This game can be fun, especially if you are playing with kids or other people who just want to roll some dice. There is a small amount of strategic play by attempting tricks that you have a better chance at scoring, when your ahead and then trying more difficult tricks that may score higher, but you have a higher chance of failing. Overall it is heavily dependent on how the die rolls fall and if the dice gods favor one player they will invariately win regardless of how well or poorly they actually played.

Overall: 6/10

Thread: Re: Is it me? Should one not add to flight plan?

RichCsigs — 2006-12-05T06:52:57+00:00

Randy Cox wrote:
I said that poorly. I should have said, "Why would anyone ever choose option 1 above? Passing on a turn of dice rolling, that is.

Because you are holding nothing but 10s, 11s and twelves. Or you hold only yellow cards and the last flight you need to do requires red, green and blue.

Thread: Re: Stunt Plane fun or shoot yourself with a large caliber g

metelo — 2006-11-30T16:45:52+00:00

well.. I was the lucky one that got the game from the Mechwarrior tournament (it really sucked that we used a set so heavy on artillery, as everybody had at least 3 in their armies from the sealed).

Anyway, my wife and a friend loved the game as beer and pretzel game to kill some time.. :-)

Thread: Re: Quick Question:

dturnerfish — 2006-11-26T22:05:19+00:00

Thank you!

Thread: Re: Quick Question:

Bernd — 2006-11-26T18:51:09+00:00

Hi David,
your listing is correct. There is only one point missing:
You get only the reward of the best result of your flight.
So, if you complete all 3 stunts, you will score the points and maybe - if the score is high enough - you will get also a bonus-chip for "High-score". But there is no other way getting the bonus-chip for a 2-stunts-flight as to have at the most 2 successful stunts in your flight.
Hope that helps and all the best from germany.
Bernd

Thread: Re: Stunt Plane fun or shoot yourself with a large caliber g

out4blood — 2006-11-25T15:06:15+00:00

Smilinbrax wrote:
By the way, if you are an owner of the “Tanga deal”, don’t give this away as a present. Show you have some class and get your relatives/friends a good game.
Even worse... Do NOT give this as your BGG Secret Santa gift!

Thread: Re: Stunt Plane fun or shoot yourself with a large caliber g

out4blood — 2006-11-25T15:02:51+00:00

Smilinbrax wrote:
Another copy is going to be involved in the office gift exchange (without the English rules added). That alone will be worth the entire price of the Tanga deal.
That's a great idea! I have 3 copies of Saga floating around here now...

Thread: Stunt Plane fun or shoot yourself with a large caliber gun?

Smilinbrax — 2006-11-25T04:05:33+00:00

So how do I review Lucky Loop? There is already one extensive review listed that I think sums up the game play fairly. My only question is why someone would take the time to write a review that likely takes longer than the game does to play. Especially this game.

I am biased as I received three copies of this bad boy in the Tanga Mystery Deal. So far I pawned one off on the winner of an impromptu /Mechwarrior tournament. Did I mention how much I hate the artillery rules in Mechwarrior! But I digress. Another copy is going to be involved in the office gift exchange (without the English rules added). That alone will be worth the entire price of the Tanga deal.

So why haven’t I made it to the game review yet? Well, there really is not much to it. The game feels like yahtzee to me in many ways. You have 5 dice of which you get to roll 3 per turn and are trying to exactly match a number. The game is entirely blind luck.

Sure you have decisions to make all over the place. You get to decide what cards to lay down, in what order, which ones to trade, which pile to draw from, and whether t ouse a token or not. But the only thing that really helps you modify the odds are the tokens. Nothing else really matters.

Lets take the cards. You have different colors to choose from which allow you to compete for different “stunts” but this is really irrelevant as no stunt is inherently worth more than any other. It’s all about the numbers you see. You can hedge probabilities by going for lower numbers that score less points, but your opponent can nail you if he/she gets a few big numbers or matches the target number exactly a few times without needing rerolls. I never felt that pressed with an important card decision that decided my fate. It was all up to the dice rolls.

For modifying dice rolls, we have the bonus chip. Each bonus chip allows you to add an extra die to the round (giving you a total of 6 to use but never more than 3 at any time) or allow you to entirely reroll one roll. As it takes three rolls to complete a stunt and the dice used to meet or exceed the target number for each roll are removed from the remaining, this is a handy thing. However the rules on how you gain them mean that you will almost always get one per turn unless you have horrible luck in which case you needed the chip but won’t get it. Adding one die can be important as can a reroll, but you are still basically making the same roll (i.e. always 3 dice or less). If adding a die allowed you to roll 4 at a time, then you could begin to have a little more “control” of the odds.

I’m not sure if it is supposed to be played this way, but we found it to be a race game. Each player raced to get 4 quick successes with each stunt and the one who did it first quickly did his/her freestyle stunt ending the game tidily ahead of everyone else. This was very unsatisfying as the rules have all these sections for beating others or your own high score at the stunts. Utterly useless and has no bearing on the game unless everyone rolls so badly that they cannot complete one stunt a turn. Also the one who wins seems to be the one who succeeds at a stunt each turn with maybe one missed turn. Thus, the game is about 5-6 turns in length. Perhaps our players are super “lucky.” Who needs to beat other people’s stunts anyway.

Lastly, lets talk about theme. There is none! 0! Nada! Nil! Each card is painted with an airplane doing something silly (if you read the rules, you will find that the cards each match a maneuver), but it really doesn’t matter. It is a DICE game and any theme could be used. You don’t like stunt planes, make it a building game, or submarine race, or a traffic simulator. The game is about dice and rolling the same or more each roll. You can’t even crash and burn, which I think might have saved this game. A little mayhem and destruction would have been fun especially if you could crash into another player’s plane. Alas, this is not to be.

My recommendation is to put this game away and buy liar’s dice, yahtzee or CLR. At least CLR does not have bizarre and confusing rules that seek to needlessly complicate a dice game. Besides, if you play it the right way you can win some money.

By the way, if you are an owner of the “Tanga deal”, don’t give this away as a serious present. Show you have some class and get your relatives/friends a good game.

P.S. Yes, this review took longer than the game does to play. I'm so ashamed

Thread: Quick Question:

dturnerfish — 2006-11-24T23:42:32+00:00

There is something I am misunderstanding.

From the rules:
"In any one round a player can receive a maximum of one
bonus-chip."

"Note: Flights are “rewarded” differently – irrespective of their result.
- If no flight or only one stunt is fulfilled – there is no reward.
- For two fulfilled stunts – one bonus-chip is awarded.
- Three stunts performed successfully are rewarded with points.
- Finally, a stunt routine where the best score is achieved is
rewarded with a bonus-chip as well as the points scored."

Question:

If you complete all 3 stunts, you get points and only get a bonus token if you scored a 20+, were the first one to get 12+, or scored highest?

You do not get points for "For two fulfilled stunts – one bonus-chip is awarded."?

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

desultor — 2006-11-16T17:18:39+00:00

Seems to me that most nay-sayers are wanting this game to be more/less than it is - and it's not really possible to add/subtract what's missing/abundant. Also, there's probably some bitterness over the rules and box being in German, and the English translation lacking polish in the rules PDF. Or they're just upset at being snookered by Tanga's Mystery sale.

So far for variants we have the following (thanks Shawn!)
1) Play with only 2-3 players.
2) Move to Freestyle after only 3 successful routines.

I'll play the original (with corrected English rules) and probably both the above variants this weekend, and see how it goes.

Thread: Re: Is it me? Should one not add to flight plan?

Randy Cox — 2006-11-16T03:32:27+00:00

tool wrote:
I'm not following you. There are three options for your turn:

1. Exchange up to 3 cards (and do nothing else).

2. Play a new 3-card flight plan and then try to complete the stunt.

3. Upgrade 1 card in a flight plan and then try to complete the stunt.

So, you CAN modify a flight plan and fly the same turn.

I get the impression from what people have been posting that the English rules included with the Tanga copies are rubbish - I would recommend downloading the PDF on the game page here instead. It is not as clear as it could be in all spots, but everything is there.
I said that poorly. I should have said, "Why would anyone ever choose option 1 above? Passing on a turn of dice rolling, that is.

As to the rules, there aren't any in the Tanga copy (except the German ones). The ones on the Queen site are a lot better than the rules here, which have some issues.

Thanks for clarifying. I guess the only time a person gives up their opportunity to "fly" is when they exchange cards, kinda like a Scrabble bag search. But if I wanted new cards, why not put down a 3-card flight plan and then fly (either the plan I just put down or a different one, as it's not indicated in the rules that you have to fly the plan you just modified)? That way, I get to fly AND dump cards.

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Bernd — 2006-11-15T23:39:42+00:00

cdefrisco wrote:
Are you forced to fly the flight plan that you just updated/created?

Scenario: You have already completed a flight on Rubber Duck. On your next turn you upgrade one of the flight cards on the Rubber Duck plan to a 12, which creates an exteremly difficult flight plan to achieve for the other players. After updating that flight plan, you proceed to attempt to fly the Red Rooster (on that same turn) instead of the Rubber Duck.

The other night, both my son and I decided it would be a nice tactic to include in the game play. We decided we would start playing that way, even if the rules indicated otherwise.

That's really interesting, I mean, hey it's a flight-plan - it's your flight-plan!
I just try to imagine the face of the control tower operator. How much time do you have to clearify the situation that your airplane is not on it's declared way before the next 2 available F-15s are on your back?
Okay, just kidding.
Your question is really interesting. It indicates some nice tactical aspects. But the nature or better the sense of the game is at this point that you have to perform the flight you just revealed (3 cards) or upgraded (1 card). But on the other hand, play it like it suits you best.
Hope that helps and all the best from germany
Bernd

Thread: Re: Is it me? Should one not add to flight plan?

tool — 2006-11-15T22:09:13+00:00

I'm not following you. There are three options for your turn:

1. Exchange up to 3 cards (and do nothing else).

2. Play a new 3-card flight plan and then try to complete the stunt.

3. Upgrade 1 card in a flight plan and then try to complete the stunt.

So, you CAN modify a flight plan and fly the same turn.

I get the impression from what people have been posting that the English rules included with the Tanga copies are rubbish - I would recommend downloading the PDF on the game page here instead. It is not as clear as it could be in all spots, but everything is there.

Thread: Is it me? Should one not add to flight plan?

Randy Cox — 2006-11-15T21:19:53+00:00

I've not played the game, only read the rules (like a lot of Tanga mystery game recipients).

But in reading the rules, I get a feeling of Can't Stop (playing the odds) meets Linie 1 (building for the final 'race' portion). And that's a good thing. I think I may like this game.

But one thing bothers me. It seems to me that after the first round of mandatory flight plan building, it would always be a good idea to simply try to complete a plan--any plan. If you're extremely lucky, you'll be finished with the compulsories after the 5th turn and ready to do some final stunt. But in any event, you wouldn't have 'wasted' turns building different flight plans, since you can't modify plans (more than a single card) AND fly on the same turn. Hence, it seems that one would just change 0 or 1 cards and fly away--roll the bones.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems that the opportunity loss of skipping a turn of flying is rather large.

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Randy Cox — 2006-11-15T21:14:55+00:00

cdefrisco wrote:
My opinion would be that you should have to fly the flight plan that you just filed
I think I agree with you on the intention of the rules. If we get enough play time in on this game we'll try both.

Thanks!
I was thinking this would be a good strategy. Make the future stunt pilots do harder tricks than you had to. It would be a double-edged sword. You make it tougher for them, but if they succede, they score more points than you did.

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

cdefrisco — 2006-11-14T19:39:45+00:00

My opinion would be that you should have to fly the flight plan that you just filed
I think I agree with you on the intention of the rules. If we get enough play time in on this game we'll try both.

Thanks!

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Sartredes — 2006-11-14T19:29:02+00:00

Are you forced to fly the flight plan that you just updated/created?

Scenario: You have already completed a flight on Rubber Duck. On your next turn you upgrade one of the flight cards on the Rubber Duck plan to a 12, which creates an exteremly difficult flight plan to achieve for the other players. After updating that flight plan, you proceed to attempt to fly the Red Rooster (on that same turn) instead of the Rubber Duck.

The other night, both my son and I decided it would be a nice tactic to include in the game play. We decided we would start playing that way, even if the rules indicated otherwise.

Interesting.

The rules do not explicitly say. My opinion would be that you should have to fly the flight plan that you just filed (i.e. laid cards on). Flying a flight plan that was filed by someone else doesn't seem that it would logically follow the theme (if a pilot tried to fly a different flight plan than filed these days they'd probably be escorted home by F-15's and the pilot would be in deep doo-doo :surprise. Also because the flight is a part of declaring the flight plan option, it seems the flight would be linked to the first part (the cards laid while filing a plan).

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

cdefrisco — 2006-11-14T18:54:00+00:00

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

tofuji — 2006-11-13T21:20:53+00:00

my thanks to you both, brian & bernd

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Bernd — 2006-11-13T20:58:22+00:00

Sartredes wrote:
i had also originally thought that filing a flight plan was required to attempt a flight, but after re-reading the directions today, "The Flight" seems to be a separate thing.

the rules say that a player must "Trade cards" or "File a flight plan." Both of these sections are highlighted, followed by a section that says "The flight" which is also highlighted. Each section title also has a differently colored bullet, furthering my belief that "The flight" section is separate from the previous two. the only exception to this, of course, is the first flight.

I sat here and stared at the rules for a bit and pondered a bit on whether the flight was a universal step taken after either the "Trade cards" or the "File a flight plan" step. I'm pretty sure I was correct in my thought that the flight is part of the "File a flight plan" choice. The first line of the rules under "File a flight plan" reads, "First, you play the appropriate cards from your hand;" This is followed by subsections on how to play 3 cards or 1 card. The bullets I believe are misleading, but the use of the word "First" implies there are subsequent steps in the "File a flight plan" option. The second step being the flight. If you haven't declared a flight plan (by playing three new cards or modifying one -which may even be one that was previously declared by another player- by playing one card, it doesn't make sense that you would fly one.

A: Your are right Brian. On your turn, you have two choices: Trade cards or perform a flight (the first step of performing a flight is to play your flight-plan, either 1 or 3 cards).

about the arrows on the score card, if you land them, does this mean that you get an automatic bump to the next spot?

I think you answered your own question here. If it's not in the rules I'd say "officially" the answer is "No," but you may make that a rules variant.

A: Again you are right Brian, those arrows are printed to give a clear view where to go ;-)

if a player rolls a number that meets the requirements of a card, is s/he forced to play it? the player may want to use a "Roll Again" token if s/he rolled an 5, when s/he's trying for a 4.

I think if you have no bonus chips to "Roll Again" then you have to play the dice on one of your cards. If you choose to roll again you risk failure in your flight plan, but I think it is allowed. After reading the section on how to use your bonus chips, it makes no stipulation on the "Roll Again" only being usable after a failure roll.

A: That will depend much on the concrete situation and the personal taste. During our testgames I never faced a situation in which I decided to reroll the dice.

if a player does not have enough dice to complete the flight, is s/he allowed to continue to play? for example, i lay out 3 7's. on the first roll, i get 2, 2, and 3. these dice can match 1 of the 7's, but i no longer have enough dice for the next 2 7's (assuming i have no bonus tokens). am i allowed to continue in an attempt to complete the second stunt to earn a bonus token?

Yes, you should continue to the second die-rolling round. Follow the rules for that round to determine what to do. My interpretation is that if you succeed with round two you will have to prematurely end the flight, netting you a bonus chip but no victory points (your best case scenario in this example). Otherwise, if you fail to meet or beat one of you two remaining cards, your flight ends as a failure and you get neither victory points nor a bonus chip.

A: Yeah, that's right. At least the player had a chance to gain 1 bonus-chip by completing the second stunt.

for trading cards, the rules say that the player draws "up to 3 cards." does this mean that s/he can draw less than 3, if s/he desires? this comes is important in the free flight portion, as "each traded card no costs a victory point."

Yes. You can draw less than three. At least that's how I usually interpret "up to X".

A: And again, this is absolutely correct.

If anyone else has any thoughts or corrections to my response, please post them. I'm reasonably confident I understand the rules correctly, but arguements could be made for some differences due to the formating and less-than-explicit nature of the rulebook.

Hope that helps and all the best from germany.
Bernd

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Sartredes — 2006-11-13T19:09:59+00:00

i had also originally thought that filing a flight plan was required to attempt a flight, but after re-reading the directions today, "The Flight" seems to be a separate thing.

the rules say that a player must "Trade cards" or "File a flight plan." Both of these sections are highlighted, followed by a section that says "The flight" which is also highlighted. Each section title also has a differently colored bullet, furthering my belief that "The flight" section is separate from the previous two. the only exception to this, of course, is the first flight.

I sat here and stared at the rules for a bit and pondered a bit on whether the flight was a universal step taken after either the "Trade cards" or the "File a flight plan" step. I'm pretty sure I was correct in my thought that the flight is part of the "File a flight plan" choice. The first line of the rules under "File a flight plan" reads, "First, you play the appropriate cards from your hand;" This is followed by subsections on how to play 3 cards or 1 card. The bullets I believe are misleading, but the use of the word "First" implies there are subsequent steps in the "File a flight plan" option. The second step being the flight. If you haven't declared a flight plan (by playing three new cards or modifying one -which may even be one that was previously declared by another player- by playing one card, it doesn't make sense that you would fly one.

about the arrows on the score card, if you land them, does this mean that you get an automatic bump to the next spot?

I think you answered your own question here. If it's not in the rules I'd say "officially" the answer is "No," but you may make that a rules variant.

if a player rolls a number that meets the requirements of a card, is s/he forced to play it? the player may want to use a "Roll Again" token if s/he rolled an 5, when s/he's trying for a 4.

I think if you have no bonus chips to "Roll Again" then you have to play the dice on one of your cards. If you choose to roll again you risk failure in your flight plan, but I think it is allowed. After reading the section on how to use your bonus chips, it makes no stipulation on the "Roll Again" only being usable after a failure roll.

if a player does not have enough dice to complete the flight, is s/he allowed to continue to play? for example, i lay out 3 7's. on the first roll, i get 2, 2, and 3. these dice can match 1 of the 7's, but i no longer have enough dice for the next 2 7's (assuming i have no bonus tokens). am i allowed to continue in an attempt to complete the second stunt to earn a bonus token?

Yes, you should continue to the second die-rolling round. Follow the rules for that round to determine what to do. My interpretation is that if you succeed with round two you will have to prematurely end the flight, netting you a bonus chip but no victory points (your best case scenario in this example). Otherwise, if you fail to meet or beat one of you two remaining cards, your flight ends as a failure and you get neither victory points nor a bonus chip.

for trading cards, the rules say that the player draws "up to 3 cards." does this mean that s/he can draw less than 3, if s/he desires? this comes is important in the free flight portion, as "each traded card no costs a victory point."

Yes. You can draw less than three. At least that's how I usually interpret "up to X".

If anyone else has any thoughts or corrections to my response, please post them. I'm reasonably confident I understand the rules correctly, but arguements could be made for some differences due to the formating and less-than-explicit nature of the rulebook.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

tofuji — 2006-11-13T16:30:33+00:00

you also get a bonus chip if you miss the final flight plan by 1 card

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

tofuji — 2006-11-13T16:11:38+00:00

a brian, a bryan, and a ryan? i feel so out of place! at least i'm trying...

i also got this game from tanga's mystery game (three of them, actually), and i thought i'd ask my questions here in case someone might know this game better.

i had also originally thought that filing a flight plan was required to attempt a flight, but after re-reading the directions today, "The Flight" seems to be a separate thing.

the rules say that a player must "Trade cards" or "File a flight plan." Both of these sections are highlighted, followed by a section that says "The flight" which is also highlighted. Each section title also has a differently colored bullet, furthering my belief that "The flight" section is separate from the previous two. the only exception to this, of course, is the first flight.

about the arrows on the score card, if you land them, does this mean that you get an automatic bump to the next spot? it's not even mentioned in the rules. also, during the free flight, when you trade a card, you lose a point on the score track, but if you are on the spot in front of an arrow, does the arrow push you back into place? i see how this might work in a similar fashion to "who wants to be a millionaire?"'s tiered scoring, so you don't drop too far.

if a player rolls a number that meets the requirements of a card, is s/he forced to play it? the player may want to use a "Roll Again" token if s/he rolled an 5, when s/he's trying for a 4.

if a player does not have enough dice to complete the flight, is s/he allowed to continue to play? for example, i lay out 3 7's. on the first roll, i get 2, 2, and 3. these dice can match 1 of the 7's, but i no longer have enough dice for the next 2 7's (assuming i have no bonus tokens). am i allowed to continue in an attempt to complete the second stunt to earn a bonus token?

for trading cards, the rules say that the player draws "up to 3 cards." does this mean that s/he can draw less than 3, if s/he desires? this comes is important in the free flight portion, as "each traded card no costs a victory point."

any light you can shed is appreciated.

tofu

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Spart02 — 2006-11-09T18:32:55+00:00

Brian,

The rules from the official Uberplay/Queen website you linked to are much clearer. Thank you!

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

generalpf — 2006-11-09T18:17:34+00:00

Can someone please explain why you wouldn't try the third card? You get a bonus chip if you drop out, and you get one if you fail, so why not go for it? The only reason I can think of is that you don't want to succeed, and you just want the bonus chip.

Thread: Re: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Sartredes — 2006-11-09T17:45:46+00:00

These are my understandings based on the rules I downloaded from the Uberplay/Queen website here: http://www.uberplay.com/games/limited/index.html

Attempt one of the stunt sequences. We did not require the player to attempt the stunt they had just played cards on in the previous part of the turn, but reasoned that it would make sense to require the player to do so.

My understanding is that once you are done laying down the either a single card on an existing flight plan or an entire flight plan of three cards, you then start your flight of three die-rolling rounds. After each die-rolling round you get to pick which of the non-completed tricks to which to apply the dice. So you don't have to attempt the trick you just played a single card on because you can choose to apply the dice to either of the other two cards. Even if you successfully complete one of your cards on the second die roll, you may prematurely end the flight which gains you no victory points, but does allow for a bonus chip. If you do this you may not even have to attempt the trick on that turn.

Also, we reasoned that it may make sense to disallow attempting a stunt if a player draws cards on their turn. Basically saying that if they are required to attempt the stunt they played cards on, then it wouldn't make sense to allow them to attempt a stunt if they didn't play cards on any stunt.

Right. On a player's turn you either draw cards or file a flight plan(of which, flying is a part)

There was also confusion about the contradictory rule about only playing a higher card if you play one card in a stunt register. The rules state it does not have to be a higher value. The illustration on the right side of the page states it does have to be a higher value. We played that if a player chooses to replace one card it must be of a higher value.

The english rules I downloaded from the Uberplay/Queen website are pretty clear: "After the first round, a player may also play a single card. He chooses a flight plan where cards have already been played and replaces one of those cards from his hand. The card he plays must be of the same color as the card replaced, but of a higher degree of difficulty. The replaced card is placed on the corresponding discard stack."

Hope this helps.

Thread: Lucky Loop rules quandry

Spart02 — 2006-11-09T17:01:23+00:00

I received this game as part of the recent Tanga Mystery Game deal. We played for the first time last night with a PDF of the English rules downloaded in the files section. We had MANY questions regarding the rules as they were unclear at best. Below is how we played, please let me know if we interpreted any of the rules incorrectly.

On each turn a player MAY do one of the following:

1. Draw three cards from any deck. Look at each card in turn before drawing another. Finally discarding cards until they have 6 in their hand.

--OR--

2. Play cards towards one of the stunt registers. This can be in the form of replacing 3 existing cards, or replacing 1 card. Regardless, after this is done the player redraws back up to 6 cards in their hand.

Then each player should (and this is where much confusion was at):

Attempt one of the stunt sequences. We did not require the player to attempt the stunt they had just played cards on in the previous part of the turn, but reasoned that it would make sense to require the player to do so.

Also, we reasoned that it may make sense to disallow attempting a stunt if a player draws cards on their turn. Basically saying that if they are required to attempt the stunt they played cards on, then it wouldn't make sense to allow them to attempt a stunt if they didn't play cards on any stunt.

There was also confusion about the contradictory rule about only playing a higher card if you play one card in a stunt register. The rules state it does not have to be a higher value. The illustration on the right side of the page states it does have to be a higher value. We played that if a player chooses to replace one card it must be of a higher value.

Any help/ideas/thoughts are appreciated.

And for what it is worth, we enjoyed this game, rules questions aside. It was certainly worth the ~$6 I paid for it.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

Bernd — 2006-11-09T13:33:35+00:00

You are right, Brent.
1. Only 2 successful attempts -> no scoring but a chip (It doesn't matter if you only make two attempts or three attempts with a failure on the least one).
2. Three successful attempts -> scoring but no chip
2.a Scoring is the best in the resp. category -> scoring plus 1 chip (BUT only if the scoring is 12 or higher). So if you get the best score (e.g. early in the game) buit this score is lower than 12, you will get no Bonus-chip.
2.b Scoring is 20 or above -> scoring (20) plus 1 Bonus-chip

And, it is not allowed to get more than 1 chip in one turn!
Hope that helps
and all the best from germany
Bernd

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

Bernd — 2006-11-09T13:04:49+00:00

I have to apologize, this is indeed a mistake.
The card has to be of the same color and a higher degree of difficulty (as it was stated on the right side of the rulespage near the example).

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

krackelman — 2006-11-09T03:49:13+00:00

MarkEA wrote:
I have a quick rules question. I haven't played it yet but glanced over the rules. Top of page 3 on the English rules that you can down load it says when playing an individual card it doesn't have to have a higher degree of difficulty but the example next to it says the card has to have a higher degree of difficulty, which is right?

TIA

Looking at the german which said...

Sie muss gleicher farbe sein, jedoch einen höheren schwierigkeitsgrad haben.

I ran it through a translator and it came back with...

She must be same farbe (color), have, however, higher schwierigkeitsgrad (degree of difficulty).

This implies to me that the replacement card must be higher in difficulty like the text above the picture and the same color.

I think the other text on the left that says you don't have to have a higher degree of difficulty is an error in the English Rules translation.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

MarkEA — 2006-11-09T03:22:11+00:00

I have a quick rules question. I haven't played it yet but glanced over the rules. Top of page 3 on the English rules that you can down load it says when playing an individual card it doesn't have to have a higher degree of difficulty but the example next to it says the card has to have a higher degree of difficulty, which is right?

TIA

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

krackelman — 2006-11-09T02:41:26+00:00

Beisaic wrote:
I played this game for the first time today. It wasn't a terrible game, but there are at least a couple serious flaws that need fixing to make it reasonably strategic.

First off, (as would be expected), the luck is high. This is not a problem in and of itself, except for the bonus chips. In fact, I think that the bonus chips may be where the game's true flaws lie.

The bonus chips can be used to add an extra die roll to the trick set, or to reroll up to three dice. Thus, the bonus chips help to negate luck. You earn bonus chips by completing a consecutive number of tricks and setting trick records.

In this way, bonus chips add a certain amount of momentum to the leading player. They can get lucky and perform a trick well and score 2 bonus chips. Then, the bonus chips can be used to fudge the die rolls in their favor, allowing them to "fix" bad rolls on the next trick. An investment of two chips could very well return two more bonus chips, which can be invested on the next trick for two more bonus chips, and so on. The key is:

ONCE A PERSON GETS LUCKY ONCE, THEY NO LONGER NEED LUCK TO STAY AHEAD.

There is no catch-up mechanism (such as in games like Power Grid, or even Nexus Ops). He who gets ahead stays ahead. The game may very well be decided after one round!!!

This is an oversimplification, and I've only played one game, but I feel that this would be true on subsequent plays.

So.... How to fix it?

I am not sure you are playing the rules for getting the Bonus Chips correctly.

The rules state on page 5 that in any one round a player can receive a maximum of one bonus-chip.

The other rules for how to win chips are...

1. Whoever successfully completes exactly two stunts in a stunt rountine receives a bonus-chip.

2. The player, who is first to achieve a result of at least 12 points within a stunt routine, receives a bonus chip.

3. Whoever then beats the existing best score (for a stunt)also receives a bonus-chip.

4. Each player, scoring 20 or more points in one flight, also receives a bonus-chip.

If I understand the rules correctly. If I have done 2 of the 3 cards(exactly 2 stunts) for a routine and decide to stop I get a bonus-chip. If I attempt the 3rd card and fail, I get a bonus-chip. If I attempt the 3rd card and am successful, then I get the points. If my points beat the current high-score for a stunt then I get a chip or if my score is over 20 I would get a bonus-chip.

But again, I think the key here is that I only get one bonus-chip.

Technically I could earn a bonus-chip for passing rule 3 and a bonus-chip for passing rule 4 if my points were greater than 20, but I only get one.

This leads to the question of scoring high when you attempt a stunt to prevent others from scoring higher and getting a bonus-chip. Also if you are the first one to complete the stunt and it is high (say 18), you earn the bonus-chip and set the bar high for everyone else.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

Beisaic — 2006-11-08T07:15:10+00:00

I played this game for the first time today. It wasn't a terrible game, but there are at least a couple serious flaws that need fixing to make it reasonably strategic.

First off, (as would be expected), the luck is high. This is not a problem in and of itself, except for the bonus chips. In fact, I think that the bonus chips may be where the game's true flaws lie.

The bonus chips can be used to add an extra die roll to the trick set, or to reroll up to three dice. Thus, the bonus chips help to negate luck. You earn bonus chips by completing a consecutive number of tricks and setting trick records.

In this way, bonus chips add a certain amount of momentum to the leading player. They can get lucky and perform a trick well and score 2 bonus chips. Then, the bonus chips can be used to fudge the die rolls in their favor, allowing them to "fix" bad rolls on the next trick. An investment of two chips could very well return two more bonus chips, which can be invested on the next trick for two more bonus chips, and so on. The key is:

ONCE A PERSON GETS LUCKY ONCE, THEY NO LONGER NEED LUCK TO STAY AHEAD.

There is no catch-up mechanism (such as in games like Power Grid, or even Nexus Ops). He who gets ahead stays ahead. The game may very well be decided after one round!!!

This is an oversimplification, and I've only played one game, but I feel that this would be true on subsequent plays.

So.... How to fix it?

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

shawn_low — 2006-11-08T05:10:40+00:00

desultor wrote:

I think there might be a place for complaining about Lucky Loop.
I think there might be a place for raving about Lucky Loop.
I'm telling you that this isn't either of those places.

This forum is for coming up with variants that would give the game variety, and just possibly make it more fun.
Cool? Cool.

Very cool. My bad for being OT.

As for variants?

I have addressed the alleged 'faults' and don't think that they are valid.

As for variants?

I suggest:

1) Playing with less players 2-3 is ideal.
2) Instead of playing 4 shows before being allowed the 'private show', try 3 shows.

The game isn't that long and could qualify as a middle length filler. I don't think it needs any variants but mileage obviously varies. I don't see how Tom Vasel could say that this is 'random' and yet like Dancing Dice!!!

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

desultor — 2006-11-08T04:16:57+00:00

Lemme be clear - obviously I haven't played the game, but I'm actually looking forward to it. I'm glad I got 6 copies of Lucky Loop from Tanga, and I posted so everywhere I could.

I think there might be a place for complaining about Lucky Loop.
I think there might be a place for raving about Lucky Loop.
I'm telling you that this isn't either of those places.

This forum is for coming up with variants that would give the game variety, and just possibly make it more fun.
Cool? Cool.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

tomchaps — 2006-11-08T03:48:46+00:00

I'm sure adding a provost to Lucky Loop would help. Provosts help any game.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

tuneloon — 2006-11-08T03:22:02+00:00

As I said

tuneloon wrote:
You're allowed to moan.... it's a free county (at least to where Tanga ships

and my comment wasn't totally directed towards you. There are just a lot of people complaining that they feel ripped off by Tanga, when Tanga was in no way deceiptful in their advertising of the Mystery Item.

My three will be here tomorrow. Two of my game group members even went in on my purchase of 3, so I will (probably) get 1 Lucky Loop for $6, and I won't be disappointed.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

MarkEA — 2006-11-08T03:17:24+00:00

My two copies of Lucky Loop showed up today and both of my kids are interested in playing it, no moaning here if my kids are happy.

Thread: Re: Calling All Variants: Let's make this game fun!

AnakinOU — 2006-11-08T03:10:27+00:00

I didn't say I was going to moan...hell, I haven't even got my mystery game yet, so it MAY be R&B.

Since I already have R&B, am I allowed to moan about geting a game I already own?

Image

markrollings — 2006-01-14T11:23:41+00:00

Lucky Loop with some other Queen medium box games

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Rabid — 2005-08-22T12:49:33+00:00

Lucky Loop English Language Edition Box Cover Back

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Rabid — 2005-08-22T12:49:32+00:00

Lucky Loop English Language Edition Box Cover Front

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gonzo104 — 2004-08-19T18:44:46+00:00

Image

gonzo104 — 2004-08-19T18:44:46+00:00