Game: Kogge

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Rokkr — 2007-10-27T08:35:37+00:00

game in progress overview, 4 players

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Rokkr — 2007-10-26T21:49:03+00:00

board detail during game

Thread: Re: Kogge Expansion: Bornholm

Mod-Games — 2007-09-22T19:16:37+00:00

Sorry. It is sold out.

Thread: Re: Kogge Expansion: Bornholm

ropearoni4 — 2007-09-22T17:21:32+00:00

Any other way to get a copy to the states besides transporting from essen to the US? Any online retailer going to grab a few copies?

Thread: Kogge Expansion: Bornholm

Mod-Games — 2007-07-19T09:28:42+00:00

You can now preorder the Kogge Expansion: Bornholm. It contains all for a 5th player and some new components. Price is 8 Euro. Available at Essen 2007. Look at the mod-games.de webpage.
We have only 98 copies - we have not got more ships.
Andreas Steding

Thread: Re: Language Dependency

Markusawel — 2007-04-18T08:17:21+00:00

But it is avaliable in both English and German

Thread: Re: Where to place the starting office and Kogge

andylatto — 2007-02-19T15:02:02+00:00

4. Planning for an early office. Finding a city where I can one my first turn go to a salt or amber city, trade my one good for two goods, and then go to the opposite other salt or amber city and build and office in the second turn.

I don't think this is a good opening plan. This leaves you with only one cube, or none at all if you buy a pair of harbor markers (and I think you want to try to buy harbor markers every turn if you can). I think you should try to end every turn with at least two goods, three if possible, so that you can gain two or three more by trading.

Thread: Re: how soon is too soon to raid?

andylatto — 2007-02-19T13:50:05+00:00

Also, it allowed me to easily aquire the needed cubes for getting a second raid marker.

Getting a second raid marker requires three identical harbor markers, not three identical cubes, so getting your third raid marker is not so easy. But an early raid can make it possible to get a bonus marker (those take six identical cubes) early, and those are really valuable. The one game I've played, I raided quite early (turn 2 or turn 3), ending the turn with 11 orange cubes, got a bonus tile the next turn, and went on to win the game. But this was a three-player game, and each player was afraid that if they raided me, the third player would make even better use of their raid tile later in the game.

In a two-player game, if you raid, and your opponent then raids on his next turn, then after both raids have taken place, he will have at least as many cubes as you, and probably more, since he will have some cubes just before the raid. So I think the only effective way to make the first raid in a two-player game is to raid when you are the second player, make sure you win the auction to go first next turn, and then spend a lot of your cubes (buying a bonus tile, and possibly an office as well) on that turn, before your opponent has the opportunity to raid back.

Thread: Re: Language Dependency

fs1973 — 2007-02-14T10:47:24+00:00

Ok, thanks Mik.

Thread: Re: Language Dependency

Great Dane — 2007-02-14T10:35:58+00:00

Correct!

Thread: Language Dependency

fs1973 — 2007-02-14T10:08:46+00:00

Hi,
From what i could see and read, the game is language independent.
Is this correct?

Luis

Thread: Re: Fantastic Session! My game for the night.

maxixe — 2006-12-08T07:11:56+00:00

Larry Levy wrote:
Cedric, I've only played this a couple of times (quite a while ago), but the problem was an extreme amount of downtime. As interesting as the game was, it couldn't quite make up for that. That said, I'd gladly give this another try to see if experienced players could play this more quickly. The game has quite a few fascinating mechanics and I wanted it to work.

Hi Larry, you've played a couple of times, and that is a couple of times more than what I have played. So I guess you're probably right.

I agree that downtime may be a problem that arises from AP. In my game, there was a bit of waiting, but not much. With rules explanation, the game completed in 2 hours. So I guess it will play the advertised 90 minutes?

I find downtime can be reduced by:
1. Thinking of your moves on your opponent's turn.
2. Not revealing routemarkers (shave off at least 10 to even 60 seconds of playing out permutations in your mind each turn, and that's a lot).

I find that while there are many things you can do each turn, tactically, there are only one or two viable options each turn that will maximise your returns. The brain-burner part comes in when you have to stop your opponent's lead (like what Andy did in my game. I still wonder how on earth he knew what I was planning!).

There are many great games out there that has down time. Especially so in game with open information, not unlike Caylus (arghhh, all the resource counting...)? I feel the downtime of Kogge is manageable and doesn't break the game for me.

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T15:15:27+00:00

Kogge Rulebook Cover - It Really Is That Blurred

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:49:44+00:00

Kogge Tileset Rear

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:44:49+00:00

Kogge Tileset 1

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:43:42+00:00

Kogge Tileset 2

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:43:21+00:00

Kogge Player Aids

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:37:38+00:00

Kogge Playing Pieces

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:37:10+00:00

Kogge UK Box Rear 2006

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dipdragon — 2006-12-07T14:37:07+00:00

Kogge UK Box Cover 2006

Thread: Re: Fantastic Session! My game for the night.

Larry Levy — 2006-12-07T00:06:50+00:00

Cedric, I've only played this a couple of times (quite a while ago), but the problem was an extreme amount of downtime. As interesting as the game was, it couldn't quite make up for that. That said, I'd gladly give this another try to see if experienced players could play this more quickly. The game has quite a few fascinating mechanics and I wanted it to work.

Thread: Fantastic Session! My game for the night.

maxixe — 2006-12-06T16:03:45+00:00

I have played this game once (1) and is in no position to post a full review. I believe posting a Review is reserved for players who had played the game numerous times and with many diverse groups. Nevertheless, after the session, I was surprised at the relatively low ranking this game received on BGG. I feel I should re-post this session report, which I had posted on our gaming group's forum, here.

Kogge [Andy, Cedric, Gabriel, Weili]
This was my game for the night! Andy, who had bought this game at Essen, graciously hosted the game and explained the rules very well. I was happy to try any new games, although I had never heard of this one before.

What is the game about?
The game is about traders who use/establish sea routes to set up trade offices. The sea routes are ever-changing, and goods exchanged quickly. The winner is the one who establishes the most trade offices or obtain the most goodies (bonuses, goods, etc).

How the game played?
The game started off well, with almost everyone on equal grounds. After afew rounds, I started to notice the importance of various resources. The mechanics of the game was refreshing. I didn't notice any leader bashing going on, no sabotage of any sort. Everyone was just going about doing their business.

After a while, I noticed that I was the first to obtain 4 (out of the 5 needed VPs to win) VPs. I announced this and noticed Andy was already plotting to stop my advance. Up till this point I had not notice any direct means where players could try to slow down or "screw" another player. The two consecutive moves by Andy showed me otherwise! In two moves, Andy effectively denied my any chances of winning the game in the short term! Wow!

Ultimately, Andy drove the game to a close and winner had to be determined by bonus points. I got lucky and won by having the most points. Andy came in second.

The game took about two hours (including rules explanation).

What do I think?
I'm most impressed about:

1. Long term strategy.
Long term strategy exists. You generally know what you need to do to win and can make plans to accomplish them. However, each rounds, the board condition can be changed slightly, influenced by the other players. Still, the chaos is not as great as say in El Grande where your pieces can be drastically moved by other players.

2. Short term tactics.
Because each round can turn out differently by the time its your turn, I enjoy switching my plans halfway to react to my opponents' moves. This tactical aspect of the game is fun, if you aren't screwed bad. ^^

3. Multi-use for resources.
There are two kind of resources in Kogge, goods (4 types) and routemarkers (9 values in 4 colors). The impressive thing is that they all have multiple uses, sort of like say Blue Moon City. In Blue Moon City, each card has three uses. You can use the point and color value of the card, use the special power, or discard the card to draw more cards. Unlike Blue Moon City however, the goods in Kogge have about 5 different uses, and the routemarkers also have about 5 different uses! So all resources are generally useful and that is why you can switch your plans to cater to changes on the board. Sweet!

4. Strong inter-connection.
The goods, the routemarkers, and the sea routes on the board share a pretty strong relationship. They all affect each other in a mind-boggling way.

5. Multi paths to victory (?).
It seems that there are multiple paths to victory.

6. Medium-Heavy.
I feel the weight is medium although if you want to, you really can calculate the moves in detail.

7. Not un-forgiving.
I feel the game is more forgiving than say Princes of Florences or Puerto Rico.

8. Variable starting map.
The starting sea routes on the board and the position of the guild master are determined randomly. This may add to replay variability. However, unlike Settlers of Catan, where the variable starting map has strong impact on players (if you place your initial two settlement in a bad position, you're basically set for a tough game), the variability of Kogge is less dramatic. I would guess Kogge would start evenly for all players with noone significantly disadvantaged or advantaged. The variability keeps it interesting, without punishing a bad early move. That is impressive, IMHO.

9. Good amount of hidden information.
You have one piece of information hidden, and that is your routemarkers. We play the game exposing the routemarkers half the time, and hiding it half the time when it really matters (read: when we are going to do something nasty). This is fun. (Note: I feel playing with hidden routemarkers is good to avoid AP and adds the surprise factor. Playing with exposed routemarkers will reveal information, allowing for heavier games.)

10. Scarcity.
The resources are not created equal, some being more scarce than others. This is something like Modern Art where the number of each card groups in the deck are not the same. This aspect of the game really adds color to it.

11. Interesting mechanics.
Don't know how to explain it, but the searoute is one of the more interesting game mechanics I have seen!

12. Inbuilt timer.
There is a timer mechanics built into the game where it inevitably ends. That is cool. The game will not drag on and on and on.

So all in all, I feel this is an awesome game. The components are standard wood pieces. The board is beautifully designed. Some of the most desirable traits of a great boardgame can be found in Kogge. There are alot of chioces for you each round and you have to make interesting decisions. This game gives me such a great experience I wonder why it doesn't have a higher rating.

Comparing to some of the disappointing games I've played, I totally feel Kogge deserves a spot at least several hundred higher. This, once again, showed me that game ranking does not equate to game experience. It is a sad thing... Try it.

Thread: how soon is too soon to raid?

ropearoni4 — 2006-11-13T19:33:25+00:00

I got this to the table recently, and it has a 3-4 turn learning curve for the first play. I noticed that if you play the same number on a chit more than most, it fills up a city fast. So, it was my idea that when these cities filled up, that I would rob them. I"m not sure of this method, because I could no longer go there if I needed to, but it didn't seem to bother me, since in a two-player game it isn't hard to find other cities to place offices on. Also, it allowed me to easily aquire the needed cubes for getting a second raid marker. Going first is tricky because the opponent(s) may see this as an opportunity to rob you. But only getting half the cubes from you may make them go elsewhere. But, since it is a big advantage to having a lot of cubes, I think robbing them would be better than robbing another city. What I want to know is how often in a game is the raids used. In mine, I used both. They are quite powerful, so I would think finding the right time in a game would be nearly essential to a win. For a 3+ player game I'm not sure if it is needed as much, but the 2-player, it was the winning move for me.

Thread: Re: Sail, Sea and Silting

faidutti — 2006-11-10T19:54:43+00:00

richardsgamepack wrote:
Nice review. One remark: There is a second edition of the game, and this one has top notch quality components. All graphics, from the chits to the mapboard and the box have been redesigned too. An excellent game I enjoy very much playing.

Components quality is indeed much better, but the graphics are still very poor. But never mind, great game indeed.

Thread: Re: Sail, Sea and Silting

richardsgamepack — 2006-11-10T08:24:58+00:00

Nice review. One remark: There is a second edition of the game, and this one has top notch quality components. All graphics, from the chits to the mapboard and the box have been redesigned too. An excellent game I enjoy very much playing.

Thread: Re: Sail, Sea and Silting

ropearoni4 — 2006-11-09T15:13:39+00:00

Nice review. I just recently aquired this game. I do feel I need to point out no review would be complete without mentioning the bidding for turn order is done in a different way, which is why taking markers can be helpful e.g. single marker versus 2 markers of the same number versus two of different numbers versus 3 markers, etc. It gets very confusing but works just the same. Kind of reminded me of Gargon or many other trick taking games such as frank's zoo. Just thought I'd make a note of that since that was a confusing rule that should be mentioned when determining turn order and which bits to hold on to and to take and place down.

Thread: Sail, Sea and Silting

brainrob — 2006-11-08T13:09:59+00:00

[Note: this review originally appeared in Counter magazine]

Kogge is a game that almost passed our group by in the flurry of Essen (2003) publicity for the larger manufacturers' offerings. Thankfully Mik Svellov posted a review on Brett 'n' Board which brought it to our attention. His description made Kogge look interesting enough to try so I popped over to the MoD Games website and, after being met by the joyous sight of a saltire icon giving access to the English language pages (other manufacturers - please note!), bought the game. Although the purchasing options do include payment by malt whisky, Herr Steding strangely declined my offer and PayPal had to suffice.

So what is a Kogge? The English translation is Cog - these were wide, single masted ships which replaced Viking ships in Northern Europe in the middle of the 10th century and were used mainly for transportation of trade goods, remaining in use until around the end of the 14th century. It therefore comes as no surprise that Kogge is a trading game set in the medieval Baltic.

The game board shows nine cities named, colour-coded and numbered 0-8. The colours represent the goods produced by that city: grey (ore, cities 0-2), orange (fur, cities 3-4), purple (amber, cities 5-6) and white (salt, cities 7-8). Why orange wasn't amber beats me! Each city contains two office spaces - more on these later - and two spaces for displaying numbered route markers, also colour-coded and matching their numbered city, which show the next city locations on the trade route. These route markers are pivotal to gameplay. As well as determining the current trade routes for each city they are also used in bidding for turn position, setting up offices and for trading.

It is well worth noting that the number of available goods and route markers are not distributed evenly. There are more goods and route markers for the lower value cities than for higher valued ones. This has an impact on players' strategies during the game.

During the setup stage each player receives a Kogge, four offices and a raid marker in their colour, a complete set of markers numbered 0-8 as well as starting goods of two ore and one fur. Each city starts with three trade goods of its own colour and with two face up route markers.

At the start of each round four pairs of route markers are drawn from the supply and placed beside the board. These will be available to players later in the round. Players now bid for turn order using their remaining route markers. For each marker bid, two trade goods of that colour are placed on the city. If there are any offices in the city they receive a marker before any remainder are placed on the city space.

The first player moves the Guild Master either one or two cities around the board, skipping any cities which contain a raid marker, and two goods of that city's colour are placed on to the city space. This can be fairly crucial as a player who ends their move on the same space as the Guild Master gains potentially high scoring trading options. However, the Guild Master is a hard target to hit.

Each player now gets the opportunity to take their turn. The game is a race to be the first to score five Development Points (DPs), thereby immediately winning the game, or to have the most Victory Points (VPs) when the Guild Master completes his second circuit of the board. So the aim is to accumulate DPs as quickly as possible while keeping an eye on how fast the Guild Master is moving.

A player's turn consists of movement then a number of actions. A Kogge moves from its current location to one of the cities whose number is displayed on the location's route markers. Due to a previous player action one or both of these markers could be face down and unknown to the player - keeping things pretty interesting.

On reaching its destination, for payment of a route marker from their own supply, a Kogge may move to yet another city as displayed on its new location's route markers, and may keep on moving as often as the player chooses. Players may collect trade goods from any of their offices they encounter on the way. Although movement is not compulsory a player must move to be able to trade during their turn.

After movement a player has a number of actions they can carry out:

1. Trade for goods present in the city. For each traded good from your Kogge you receive two (of a different type) from the city. This is the main method of building up a supply of goods.
2. Buy one of the pairs of route markers drawn at the beginning of the round for any one trade good. This is the only way to keep a supply of route markers topped up.
3. Build an office in their current city by paying one of each trade good the city does not produce plus a route marker of that city (two for the second office in a city). Each office is worth 1 DP or 10 VPs.
4. Change trade routes by taking one face up route marker from the city and exchanging it for one of their own, placing this face down - great for foiling other players' plans or getting hold of a useful route marker.
5. Carry out a raid by either:
taking all the goods from the city and offices into their Kogge, or
taking half of the goods of another player whose Kogge is in the same city
A player then places a raid counter on that city and may never return there. They are also moved on to the next location as decided by the remaining players. Raiding immediately ends a player's turn. Raids are a great way of obtaining a large pile of goods for a minimum of effort. A nicely timed raid can also speed up the Guild Master's Baltic circumnavigation to a player's advantage.
6. If the current location contains the Guild Master a player may carry out one trade with him:
- trade 3 identical route markers for a second raid counter, worth 10 VPs, always handy to have in reserve.
- trade 6 identical goods for a bonus chit, worth 1 DP or 20 VPs; with the right timing these can prove to be fairly powerful.
- exchange one good for a route marker of the same colour or vice versa, useful for obtaining the means for that game wining move.

There are eight bonus chits available, two each of - 1:3 trading, free additional movement, movement to the Guild Master's city and draw an additional route marker.

In addition, players can trade goods and trade markers with each other at any time when their Kogges are in the same city.

The game is over immediately when the one of the end conditions has been reached. If a player has 5 DPs they win the game. Otherwise the number of VPs determines the winner - the value of bonus chits, offices and raid markers are totted up along with goods in Kogges and offices which are worth varying amounts depending on their colour.

So that's the game, but how does it play? There's no doubt that Kogge has a bit of a learning curve. Rookie mistakes can either set you so far back you'll never catch up or leave the door open for another player to swoop and fly into an unassailable lead. But, as the level of experience grows, Kogge becomes a very enjoyable game.

Admittedly it does all seems a bit bewildering at first and, during our first game, there was a feeling that it was a tad multi-player solitaire. But once you twig that you need to obtain a steady stream of trade goods, retain a decent supply of route markers and keep on planning a couple of moves ahead, it all starts to come together.

There are many decisions to be made each turn all of which effect your next move. Some bonus chits are more useful than others at certain stages of the game, so which one do you choose, or do you keep the goods to help build offices in the your next couple of turns? Towards the end of the game control of the Guild Master can be vital - especially if there are raid counters splattered all over the board - and bidding for first player can be very aggressive.

Having more than one plan of action always helps. It's great to see your plans come together for that raid on someone's overloaded Kogge and frustrating when that route marker you were depending upon in your next destination is replaced by another player. Ach well, time for plan B to kick in - just as well you picked up that second raid counter; revenge can be so sweet .....

The game's systems are very clever (that good old phrase 'interlocking mechanisms' springs to mind), particularly the way in which the route markers have multiple uses and the manner in which trade routes are constantly changing. I understand the latter mirrors historical fact as medieval Baltic ports were liable to a fair degree of silting.

The box states Kogge plays with 2-4 players. We have played with 3 and 4 players and really enjoyed the game, although I would imagine the amount of player interaction with 2 players would be fairly minimal and gameplay may become just an interesting puzzle.

The only slight downside to Kogge is the quality of its components and much has been said on this topic on various web sites. The box is fairly thin, the markers and chits are inkjet printed paper stuck to cardboard (raising questions about their longevity) and the board is mounted inkjet printed paper. That said, the quality is no worse than, say, Winsome's Pampas Railroads and, at the end of the day, what you get for your money is a very good game. Remember, Herr Steding runs a small, solo operation so please don't let this put you off.

Kogge is a game that rewards investment in multiple playings as awareness of the many tactical options grows with experience, as does the level of competition. If you enjoy trading games, or games where a combination of both planning and reacting is involved, then I would suggest that Kogge is for you.

Thread: Re: Optimal number of players?

clearclaw — 2006-07-11T16:25:36+00:00

4 players is clearly the sweet spot.

Thread: Re: Optimal number of players?

Great Dane — 2006-07-11T08:25:02+00:00

I prefer to play with 4, but the game is okay with 3. I don't think it will be very interetsing with only 2 players.

Thread: Optimal number of players?

Waylander1 — 2006-07-11T06:51:33+00:00

How good/interesting is this game with 2, 3 or 4? Is this a game that is "best" with a certain number, and less good with others, or is it a game that really scales well and gives a similar experience with any number of players.

I've got a 3 person gaming session coming up, and I'm trying to decide between Indonesia, Tahuantinsuyu, and Kogge. I haven't played any of them, and am trying to figure out if any of them are worth pulling out with 3.

Thread: Re: Raiding and moving the kogge

Mod-Games — 2006-03-10T13:52:28+00:00

Yes this is correct. First change route marker than move next turn.

Thread: Re: Raiding and moving the kogge

renard — 2006-03-10T11:07:52+00:00

What's happen if both the route markers have the same number and led to a city which the player has already raided? Can't he move? He has to change a route marker and then move on the next turn, is it correct?

Thread: Re: Component quality = Terrible!

shawn_low — 2006-02-27T06:49:05+00:00

GeoMan wrote:
shawn_low wrote:
I just got my second edition and the quality of the components are OK.

The 2nd edition is a big improvement over the 1st edition i got. Use stick glue and you will solve your box problem.

That may be true but I didn't buy an 'art and craft' game.

Thread: Re: Component quality = Terrible!

GeoMan — 2005-12-13T02:12:23+00:00

shawn_low wrote:
I just got my second edition and the quality of the components are OK.

The 2nd edition is a big improvement over the 1st edition i got. Use stick glue and you will solve your box problem.

Thread: Re: Component quality = Terrible!

shawn_low — 2005-12-13T01:56:13+00:00

I just got my second edition and the quality of the components are OK.

The counters are die cut and punch well. Also, they provided a spare set of counters (very nice idea).

The board looked good and folded well enough (although you can see the sticky tape holding it along the center).

HOWEVER, the box was in terrible shape.

The top and bottom box cover is printed on adhesive paper and stuck over cardboard. The adhesive on my copy wasn't working very well. The inside edges are peeling open and the bottom corner was torn when I got it. Bad news.

Not too sure if I can get replacements...

Thread: Re: Raiding and moving the kogge

Mod-Games — 2005-11-18T22:43:41+00:00

Yes correct.

Thread: Re: Raiding and moving the kogge

clearclaw — 2005-11-17T00:30:21+00:00

Brassjester wrote:
After a raid the raider is moved along one of the possible routes out of the city. What if one of those routes is face down? Is this still an option to use. One of our players tonight sailed in, replaced the route marker to limit the choices where he would be moved to, then raided. We ruled that the face down marker was a viable option so that we still had two choices. Is this the correct interpretation?

If it weren't an option the following case would be unresolvable:

Player moves to a city both of whose route markers are face down (either prior to the move, or because the player replaced the last face up marker) and then raids the city.

Thread: Raiding and moving the kogge

Brassjester — 2005-11-16T23:13:04+00:00

After a raid the raider is moved along one of the possible routes out of the city. What if one of those routes is face down? Is this still an option to use. One of our players tonight sailed in, replaced the route marker to limit the choices where he would be moved to, then raided. We ruled that the face down marker was a viable option so that we still had two choices. Is this the correct interpretation?

Thread: Solitaire Variant (Translated by Rick Heli)

shawn_low — 2005-10-19T03:24:33+00:00

First Solo Variant for Kogge!
(English Translation by Rick Heli)

Idea of the Variant:

A virtual non-player competes during the Auction Phase for control of the guild master. The player must achieve his goal before the guild master circles the board twice.

Changes to Set-up:

Draw 3 different route markers (re-draw if you get the same numbers). In each corresponding city place a "Raid" Marker from a colour not in play. It is legal for the guild master to start in a city with a raid marker. Otherwise set up as normal.

Changes to Play:

Auction Phase:

On the first turn the player bids first. A second, "neutral" player draws ONE route marker at random from the supply as her bid. Place goods as usual in the cities that correspond to the bid markers. In all other turns the player is first to bid only if he won the auction on the previous turn. (Hint: use the Reihenfolge markers to help remember.) If the "neutral" player is second and draws the same route marker as the player, the neutral player draws an additional route marker and counts them both.

Guild Master Phase:

If the neutral player outbids the player, he moves the guild master 2 spaces. Otherwise the player may decide as usual whether to move the guild master 1 or 2 spaces.

The "neutral" player is only active during the Auction and Guild Master phases -- there is no neutral ship, etc.

Each turn, just before moving, the guild master removes all goods from his current city. These goods are placed into the reserve. For example, if he starts in city 4, remove all goods from city 4, then move the guild master.

Raids:

After the player performs a raid, he must, as usual, immediately leave the city. He may choose which route to use. As before he may not travel to a port that he has previously raided.

Victory:

The player wins if he reaches 5 points before the guild master ends his second circumnavigation. This is the only way the player can win.

Advanced game:

All goods removed by the guild master are removed from the game.

Thread: Re: Guildmaster

Mod-Games — 2005-06-10T10:29:34+00:00

No. You have not to move to trade with the guildmaster. You have to move if you want to trade with the city.

Thread: Guildmaster

Gareth — 2005-05-30T15:29:55+00:00

Do you have to move to a new port before dealing with the Guildmaster?

Thread: Where to place the starting office and Kogge

tmeistad — 2005-03-30T12:32:25+00:00

Kogge is one of my favourite games right now and all of my gaming companions like it.

I've never yet, in my two games, selected the best starting posistions, so what guidelines are the most important when selecting the starting position, and what guidlines are there.

These are those I can think of.
1. The city with the most route markers on the board. The higher value of these route markers, the better.

2. The low numbered cities, since there are more route markers for these cities. These route markers will be most used in the auction and thus receive more goods.

3. The high numbered cities, since these goods are most worth. But this guideline contradicts guideline number 2.

4. Planning for an early office. Finding a city where I can one my first turn go to a salt or amber city, trade my one good for two goods, and then go to the opposite other salt or amber city and build and office in the second turn.

Suggestions and comments, anyone?

Thread: Re:Comments on second edition?

GeoMan — 2004-11-30T00:30:21+00:00

Tim Synge (#66456),

Compared to the mess that was the first edition, the components (tiles and map) are better but nowhere near the quality of a German game...

The counters and map are not plastic coated as is the normal these days with ALL other games.

Thread: Re:Comments on second edition?

dwgteach — 2004-11-22T18:18:05+00:00

Tim Synge (#66456),
I never saw the first edition, but was luck enough to obtain the second. Though plain, all of the components are quite good on solid cardboard. I'm looking forward to getting it to the table.

Thread: Comments on second edition?

Tim Synge — 2004-11-19T10:05:22+00:00

Given the previous comments on component quality, has anyone seen the second edition? I assume these issues have been overcome, but would welcome comments on this. TIA.

Tim.

Thread: Re:User Review

Richard_Huzzey — 2004-09-16T22:52:09+00:00

100%Blade (#54911),

I certainly agree that route marker management is the key, as is making sure you are always aware of where the Guildmeister is going to be, and always turning up where is...!

Richard.

Thread: User Review

100%Blade — 2004-09-16T18:22:59+00:00

Caveat: Review based on one playing (a 3 player game).
Kogge is a game about merchant trading in and around the Baltic Sea. This is quite a complex game to take in and I struggled with the rules even after 3 attempts. There are 9 ports in and around the Baltic each of which produce one of four types of good - salt, amber, fur or ore and each of which is designated a number (0-8). Routes between the ports are dependant upon the prevalent winds, storms, tides etc which may vary during the game. This is represented by a rather clever mechanism involving route markers also numbered 0-8. Each port has two route markers associated with it which indicates which other ports you can sail to.

You have one Kogge (boat) which you move from port to port, collecting and trading goods and establishing Offices in ports if you can. In addition there is a (non-player) GuildMaster who moves round the board one or two ports at a time. The game ends when one player gets 5 'development' points (offices are worth 1 pt each as are bonus chits) or the GuildMaster has been to or passed every port twice, at which point players tot up victory points (offices, chits, plus goods). Besides, determining where you can sail to, the route markers have several other uses in the game - they help determine turn order and what goods are produced at the port and you need the appropriate numbered marker to be able to establish an office. They're also useful if you want to move your Kogge more than the standard one port per turn.

On your turn you move your Kogge to a new port (if you wish) and then take a number of actions in that port - trade goods, change a destination (route) marker, build an Office, gain new route markers, trade with the GuildMaster (if you're at the same city as him), raid the city or another players boat. You can do all these actions if you wish but only one of each action. Trading with the Guildmaster allows you to gain bonus chits which count towards victory as well as giving you a particular advantage (move your Kogge further, better trade rates, additional route markers or passage directly to the Guildmaster in the future). The Raid allows you to steal all goods in the port you're at or pirate another players Kogge (if they're at the same port as you) and steal half his goods. However, you only get 1 or 2 chances to raid per game and it comes with a price as you're barred from visiting that port again and unused raids are worth VP's if the game ends because the Guildmaster has visited each port twice.

I suspect the key to the game is understanding how the route markers work. Certainly they're much more important than I initially gave them credit for. If you use one to produce new goods at a particular port, unless you've got more of the same number, you won't be able to build an office at that port. If you have got more than one of them then you may want to use it to secure first turn (definitely an advantage in certain situations) or to change a destination marker in a port. Several times in the game I wasn't able to do what I wanted because I hadn't got the right route marker. Raids can be particularly important if used at the right time. In our game, I managed to steal a large number of goods from a port which let me get a bonus chit and build another office thereby giving me an early lead. One of my opponents used both his Raids to pirate my Kogge and, on both occasions, prevented me from building my 4th Office on that turn which would have given me an immediate victory. The third player used his on the final turn to raid the very fruitful no 8 port (Copenhagen?) and took, amongst other things, around 7 furs (worth 49 vp's) which won him the game. He only managed to get to this port because he had been able to swop the destination marker though - again highlighting the importance of collecting the right ones.

There’s been a bit of criticism on here about the components and while they’re not up to the standard of, say Day of Wonder, we found them perfectly playable and the board etc did evoke the theme quite well.

I can't make my mind up about the game. There's definitely a lot to it and, once you understand the mechanisms there will be strategy as well as tactics to employ. Normally I like this type of game and want to play it at least a few times to gain this understanding but I'm not sure I'll ever fully appreciate how to use the route markers successfully.

Thread: Session Report

Jonathan Degann — 2004-03-29T17:32:28+00:00

Some very original mechanics here, but on first playing it seems more like a logic puzzle than a game. Players use chits to sail among 9 cities, trading with the one they finally land in. VP's are generated in either of two ways: by collecting 3 different commodities and trading them, along with the appropriate numbered chit, in a city that produces the fourth commodity, or by collecting 6 of the same commodities, and trading them in the city that contains a moving pawn.

To some degree, the game requires a little playing to wrap your head around it. But to some degree, I have a feeling that there is always a puzzle element to it: how do I use the rules to accomplish what I want to? This isn't the same as: what is the best play I can make? It seemed so often as though I had a tough board to work with, and either could figure out a way to make my turn effective - or I just couldn't figure out anything. In this sense, it has some of the same frustration as "Fische, Fluppen, Frikkadellen", but I do think this has the potential to be a richer, if more "brain burning" game.

Dave made two very well organized moves to start the game, and remained uncatchable through the end. There is the possibility that the game is too difficult to tip to your advantage, and could have a runaway leader problem.

This is clearly a tricky unusual game, and difficult to properly judge after a single playing.

Thread: Re:No More Days, No More Dollars

clearclaw — 2004-03-11T19:29:04+00:00

GeoMan (#24587),

I just received my copy from Andreas (thanks!) and have no complaints. All the bits are there, the board colours are uniform, etc. The game itself is of course brilliant.

Thread: Re:Session Report

clearclaw — 2004-02-25T05:09:33+00:00

Eric Brosius (#28865),

Yeah, we did the same: all our attention on just figuring out what were were doing. After the email exchange with Andreas Steading on Spielfrieks, I agree that once you're comfortable with the basic patterns of the game that trade would likely become a near dominant mechanic. It is far cheaper than wandering the map yourself and would likely have the affect of accellerating tailored tile and goods collections which would in turn accellerate bonus tile accumulation and building,..

Interesting game. Definitely on my buy list.

Thread: Re:Session Report

Eric Brosius — 2004-02-25T04:14:07+00:00

clearclaw (#28852),

We didn't trade chits or goods at all. I suspect the reason for the lack of trading was that we were concentrating so hard on just trying to grasp the mechanics, understand our options and maximize our own positions that we didn't have any extra bandwidth for trading. It seems fairly clear that trading could yield substantial benefits for both trading parties, so I'd expect it to become a dominant strategy if you play this game repeatedly.

Thread: Re:Session Report

clearclaw — 2004-02-24T23:43:27+00:00

Eric Brosius (#28603),

Was there any trading of chits or goods among players in your game?

Thread: Session Report

Eric Brosius — 2004-02-21T16:42:37+00:00

KOGGE
(Evan, Walt, Dan, Eric)

The first two games finished at about the same time, so we looked for two new 4-player games. Neither Walt nor Eric had been part of the 3-player Kogge game on February 5, and both wanted a shot, so we chose Kogge as one of the two games. Dan (who had won the previous game) joined us, and Evan made 4.

Kogge is a trading game in which players visit nine cities ranged around the Baltic Sea, trading commodities and founding trading houses. The commodity trading is a familiar gaming mechanism, but what makes Kogge distinctive is the "route markers," which are cardboard chits numbered "0" through "8" that have multiple uses. From any city a player's Kogge (ship) can sail to two other cities, as defined by two route markers placed near the city. If you'd like to sail from city "6" to city "4", you can remove one of the route markers currently near city "6", put it in your hand, and play a route marker "4" from your hand upside down to the board (where only you know what it is.) You also use route markers (together with the appropriate commodities) to found new trading offices (one marker of the same number as the city for the first trading office at the city and two markers of that same number for the second and final trading office at that city.) Finally, you use route markers to bid for turn order, with two identical markers beating any set without two identical markers, three identical markers beating two, and so on. Each marker used for bidding generates new commodities at the corresponding city. Ideally you'd play a "4" to establish a route to city "4" followed by several "4"s to win first bid and generate multiple commodities at city "4" and then one or two "4"s to set up a trading office there. Of course, it's almost impossible to gather so many route markers all with the same number, so you must decide what's most important to you.

As we started off, Eric built the first office, but at the cost of his entire commodity supply. It's not easy to get back into the commodity business once you've spent your whole supply, so he was out of the action for a while as he tried to restock. Walt then used his "Raid" tile to sack a city (making him unwelcome there for the rest of the game but gaining a fine haul of goods,) only to be raided in turn by Dan, who used the spoils to set up in the office business. Evan traded well and raided a city of his own to become a clear leader with three trading offices, but Eric raided Evan in turn to make it to three trading offices himself.

The game has two alternate (and only partly similar) sets of victory criteria. If one player makes it to 5 development points (trading offices or bonus tiles) before the wooden guild master figure completes two circuits of the board, that player wins instantly. Commodities are worthless in this case. On the other hand, if the guild master completes two circuits, the victor is determined based on victory points and not development points, and commodities can be an important component of victory points. The previous week's game ended when Dan made it to 5 development points, but raids make the guild master move faster, and he completed his tour before anyone could make it to 5 this week.

Final scores:

Eric    55 VP (3 trading offices + 25 in commodities)
Evan 41 VP (3 trading offices + 11 in commodities)
Dan   35 VP (3 trading offices +    5 in commodities)
Walt   35 VP (2 trading offices + 15 in commodities)

None of us obtained any bonus tiles or had a "Raid" tile left.

Eric's rating: 8. This game is a brain-burner, at least for the first several playings. The most complex aspect is determining how to make best use of your route markers. There's no single obvious winning strategy, at least not for new players. I really enjoyed this game.

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

Richard_Huzzey — 2004-01-01T16:40:44+00:00

GeoMan (#24587),

Glad the replacements are better; it's one of my favourite games at the moment, even if the components aren't perfect.

All the best,

Richard.

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

GeoMan — 2003-12-30T15:16:06+00:00

Richard_Huzzey (#24326),

I got my replacement board and tiles and it's an improvement over the mess i got the first time.

Of course being a handmade game it can't compare to the quality of an Amigo or Queen release...

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

Richard_Huzzey — 2003-12-25T20:48:16+00:00

nerotora (#23919),

Well, as a small one-man operation, I think it is fair to say JKLM's quality control may be less than the Kosmos or Rio Grande's of this world.

I hope the replacements meet with expectations; I've found my copy to be perfectly functional, although I'll willingly grant you that it isn't quite as slick as some of the big companies' productions. My board is printed fine, without any of the nasty errors Geoman has suffered.

As I say, good luck with the replacement and let us know how it goes. And, Merry Christmas!

Richard.

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

nerotora — 2003-12-17T11:10:09+00:00

Some days ago I too saw the copy that Geoman got. When I had first heard his complaints I thought he was exaggerating. After I saw the real thing I believe he was rather generous in his critisism. The quality is disastrous. I wonder what kind of quality control they have.

I'll be surprised if the replacement is truly much different. Let's see.

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

GeoMan — 2003-12-09T12:30:16+00:00

Richard_Huzzey (#23356),

Andreas Steding and JKLM Games contacted me and offered to replace the misprinted parts. Let's wait and see...

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

Richard_Huzzey — 2003-12-08T17:22:54+00:00

For anyone reading this and worrying Geo's experiences were typical, Andreas Stedding explained on the Spielfreaks group that this was a printing error, and that he or JKLM Games would always be happy to replace mis-printed parts.

Richard.

Thread: Re:Component quality = Terrible!

GeoMan — 2003-12-05T16:46:48+00:00

... not to mention that the colors on the right side of the map are very dark compared to the colors on the left side of the map, meaning that half of the map was printed with wrong color settings!