Game: Sunken City

Thread: Re-theming

csniezek — 2008-07-21T17:53:52+00:00

I realize that it's the mechanics of a game that make it good, but a proper theme can definitely make a difference in one's appreciation of a game.

That being said, I'm of the mind that this game would be significantly more enjoyable if it had a Cthulhu/R'lyeh theme instead of Neptune...

"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"

Thread: 2P - the Victory Lap strategy wins again

jgrundy — 2008-07-12T22:32:42+00:00

On Feb 29 2008 (four and a half months ago) I wrote up our first game of Sunken City (notated move by move) and ended with the words "We will be playing again soon". I honestly can't recall if we got in a second go at the time of this fine game, so this could be our second or third game.

As usual my wife played Red, and I was therefore required by the game layout to play Orange.

The First Part

This time we opened with a couple of big build / small move cards. She pushed Neptune down in my direction, and I didn't resist too hard. The result was that with only one or two treasures flipped I found myself sunk, and in posession of a Neptune Token which I used a few turns later for an extra ten points of movement to duck into a couple of buildings, including the centre, return home with four treasures, and rush back out to deliberately stand with Neptune on one of the buildings I'd just claimed on the edge of my own territory.

That put us back on about even footing, with her also having banked four treasures.

(Funnily enough, she decided sinking me a few steps from home when it would give me seven more extra points of movement mightn't be the best idea, and didn't move Neptune on her next turn.)

Which gave me the turns I needed to set up The Victory Lap.

The Victory Lap

It took me only two more turns to pretty much nail it home. I built roads to reach her home area, going via the other neutral territory from where she was so she wasn't in a position to use the same roads, and as I headed into her home region I moved Neptune along behind me to stand on a building on the edge of the board as far away from my home as he could be while still being adjacant to (but outside) her territory. (With Neptune sinking everything between him and my home, my wife would have to use build points if she wanted to turn Neptune around.) She built another of the buildings we both needed close to her home, which really kinda helped me out. I built something I already had and she didn't back over near my corner of the world... she was going to have to link up to there again.

So while she contemplated how to get back over to my area without giving me a ready-made road home, I continued the lap, picking up the buildings she'd been busily raising and using my builds to fill in the last couple that I needed, all the while dragging Neptune along behind me.

Soon I had all the buildings I needed but one, and was unstoppable. While the original intention was to close the loop to get home, instead I did a little tango with me and Neptune in a neutral corner of the board and came back the way I'd come, building the last building and the street links around the opposite neutral corner and then rushing home to victory using the last card of the second hand (0 builds / 7 movement).

Afterthoughts

Once again, in spite of the unstoppable win from the last couple of turns, it was a close game with my wife only two moves to finishing.

Once again this game shows an intriguing array of possible strategy and depth of thought. Sinking your opponent early is an action to take with caution as it actually seems to convey a bonus to them, but as the game progresses sinking players becomes more useful. Which would mean players have several turns at the start of the game to vie for position, see where Neptune is heading and how the board is developing, and plan their responses before it's likely they have to actually worry about being sunk themselves. And which also means the Neptune value equation is not a straightforward one.

And when Neptune gets into your home space, you definitely have the leverage to push him back to your opponent's corner of the board. And can do what I did above ... have him chase you around the board cutting off his access back to your own home as you go.

As well as the seemingly fairly successful "victory lap" idea (dragging Neptune behind you from your home area while you clean up all the buildings your opponent has been building) another strategy idea I've contemplated is ... if you use a big build early to cover large amounts of your opponent's home area with streets, so that they can't raise buildings really close to home. Or, maybe try building streets near their home in an inefficient pattern to cost them lots of movement points. Maybe the build costs wouldn't be worth the leverage, or maybe it would.

This game seems to have a lot of potential. I'm really surprised at its relatively low profile on BGG. (Maybe it's actually best as a two player game.)

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Rokkr — 2008-07-11T23:11:47+00:00

one player set of adventure cards

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Rokkr — 2008-07-11T23:09:46+00:00

the ten buildings

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Rokkr — 2008-07-11T23:08:25+00:00

player aid card, front and back

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Rokkr — 2008-07-11T23:04:03+00:00

rule book cover

Thread: Re: question regarding Neptune's movement during turn

GSReis — 2008-04-27T02:08:04+00:00

I can not find a rule that disproves your way of play, but it just does not sound right.
I agree. It seems unnecessary and a little fiddly to me, as players might easily lose track of how many steps or buildings they have used. If it was possible to interrupt an action to perform another, the rules would likely emphasize that.

We always play that you build, move, then move the big man.
However, the rules do state that you can take those actions in any order.

Thread: Re: question regarding Neptune's movement during turn

Rygel — 2008-04-26T17:30:29+00:00

I can not find a rule that disproves your way of play, but it just does not sound right. But if it works for you and everyone agrees to it, then go with it.

We always play that you build, move, then move the big man.

Thread: question regarding Neptune's movement during turn

karen1987 — 2008-04-26T15:15:48+00:00

The rules state that a player may move Neptune at any time during their turn. I took that to mean that Neptune could be moved in the middle of the building phase if desired.

Example: Neptune is currently stranded on a building surrounded by water and can't be moved. I want to sink the building he's standing on so that I can build it closer to home. I play the 3-3 action card. I place one city street (1st piece built) so that Neptune may move. I roll the Neptune die for a '1' and move Neptune onto the newly-placed street thus sinking the building. I then build another city street (2nd piece built) and the just-sunk building (3rd piece built) near my own village.

Sound ok?

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Aljovin — 2008-04-23T03:44:25+00:00

Neptune is ruling over the sunken city

Thread: Sunken City microbadge now available

jgrundy — 2008-04-22T00:29:30+00:00

[inlineimg]http://files.boardgamegeek.com/images/microbadges/mb_sunkenc...[/inlineimg] (Buy one)

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jwedel — 2008-04-15T07:52:02+00:00

game in progress

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jwedel — 2008-04-15T07:51:12+00:00

pondering mid-game.

Thread: Step by step. 2P notated and commented first game.

jgrundy — 2008-02-29T11:58:59+00:00

You got mail!

A parcel today completed (at last!) an order of several games I put in a few weeks ago, and this evening we cracked open Sunken City for the first time.

Or at least, I opened it before our evening meal and read the rules. By the time our daughter was in bed she'd managed to lose one of the treasure tokens... a new speed record for her! I was ready to substitute in another, but fortunately we found it before play began.

My wife as always played Red. In Sunken City you have to play diagonally opposite, and a village at each corner of the board indicates the player's colour in that corner. So I was Orange.

Notation
Every player has a dedicated set of six cards, each set is the same. Each card has a number of city segments which the player MUST build, and a maximum distance their pawn can move. I'll designate each card with two numbers eg 3/4 meaning build 3 and move 4. The cards are 0/7, 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 3/3, 4/3
I'm thinking of the board like this:

[c]Redtown -> a1
a b c d e f g h i
1 -
2 - - -
3 - - - - -
4 - - - -
5 - - - N - - -
6 - - - -
7 - - - - -
8 - - -
9 - i9 -> Orange County[/c]

The dashes mark the points where you are allowed to build buildings. (Plus you can build in the centre of the board.) You can build streets anywhere.

Neptune starts in the middle at e5, sitting on the #10 building. (All other buildings are off the board.) As soon as one of the players moves Neptune, #10 will sink. (Each time a player moves Neptune off a street or building, that street or building is sunk.) Neptune is moved by each player on their turn the number of steps on a die... the numbers on the die aren't 1 to 6, they're 1,2,2,3,3,4.

And so, the battle of wits begins.

At first, we flounder as to exactly what to do, making "obvious" moves, and save the more extreme cards to see when to use them best.

"The youngest starts", and on her opening turn Red picks a middling card (4/3), builds the #9 building as close to her home as possible with a couple of streets so she can get there, and... goes there, collecting the [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#9[/BGCOLOR] treasure.
Orange replicates the feat using the (3/3) card and building #8 at g7.
Red: (1/6) builds #7 @ e3 (being the end of the extra street she made in the first turn), grabbed the [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#7[/BGCOLOR] treasure, and turned quickly toward home again, reaching b1.
Org: (4/3) #6 @ h6 (and went there grabbing [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#6[/BGCOLOR]) and added streets linking Neptune to Red's corner of the world. Neptune was on the move at last, sinking the ~~#10~~ building and stopping on the #7 building.
Red: (2/5) now was able to build #10 close to home at e1. ("Hmmm" thinks Orange. "Shouldn't have sunk #10 so soon.") Five points of movement is enough for Red to visit [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#10[/BGCOLOR] and return to her village, banking [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#7[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#9[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#10[/BGCOLOR] treasures.
Org: (3/4) #5 @ h4, extending his roads, and pops into [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#5[/BGCOLOR] for a visit before returning to #6 at h6. Neptune sinks #7 and heads for #10.

At this point, I realise (and say out loud) that I've been forgetting that I could be moving Neptune as my first action each turn, thus sinking valuable buildings before my own Build action, thus being able to build them immediately. D'oh!

Red: (3/3) builds three roads (no building) and rolls 4 for Neptune's movement, sinking ~~#10~~ and bringing Neptune to h5 right next to Orange's pawn.
Org: (2/5) #10 @ d8 and grabs the [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#10[/BGCOLOR] treasure. Neptune moves a measly 2 steps to sink #5 and stop at g3.
Red: (3/4) #5 @ b5, since she's running out of "close to home" spaces to the east, steps on [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#5[/BGCOLOR] and back to #9 (still on e3). Neptune can still only go 2 steps but reaches the #6 building via a newly discovered street.
Org: (1/6) links a road to reach the [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#9[/BGCOLOR] building, grabs the treasure and turns for home. There's no path to move Neptune further away, so Neptune stays put.

Now we're both down to our (0/7) card... ie no building but lots of movement. Orange is within 7 steps of home, but if Red's Neptune rolls 3 or 4 Orange will lose everything he's worked so hard to achieve. A 50/50 gamble on my part!

Red: (0/7) Pops home to bank [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#5[/BGCOLOR] and sallies forth again to d1. Neptune proves his allegiance by continuing to crawl with another 2, but sinks #6.
Org: (0/7) also ducks into home to bank [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#5[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#6[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#8[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#9[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#10[/BGCOLOR]. Neptune jams on the brakes to take only a single step to #8.

Although I taunted Neptune to enter the #8 building, I really don't actually want to sink it since Red hasn't got #8 yet, and it's right near my corner. This step was just to get Neptune a little further from my home town, and a little closer to sudden striking distance against Red. Neptune may be a God, but he is still a slave to my whim, ready to be sent forth from my borders to do my dirty work!

So after once through our six cards each:

We've both been able to use Neptune to hamper each other. We're also noticing that the building spaces near our towns get cluttered. AND the buildings we want often seem to be at the other side of the board. This certainly isn't solitaire!

We both still need all of #1 to #4, plus others. See this board layout for buildings and Neptune:

#5 #7 #9 #10 banked
[c]Redtown -> a1
a b c d e f g h i
1 R -
2 - - -
3 9 - - - -
4 - - - -
5 - 5 - - - -
6 - - - -
7 - - - - -
8 10- 8N #5 #6 #8 #9 #10 banked
9 - i9 -> O Orange County[/c]

The Second Hand: (The six cards are returned to each player.)

Red: (4/3) #6 @ e1 and goes there (collecting the [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#6[/BGCOLOR] treasure). Neptune moves 2, sinks #8 and makes it all the way to i9, openly menacing Orange County.

Red possibly hasn't twigged (this is our first game after all) that whoever places more of those #1 to #4 buildings is going to be at an advantage.

Org: (2/5) #4 @ f8, positioning this jointly-needed building while he can and grabbing the [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#4[/BGCOLOR] treasure.
Red: (2/5) #8 @ e5 (the centre), moves to pick up the [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#8[/BGCOLOR] treasure and the bonus [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#12[/BGCOLOR] for the centre space, and backs off to d2, three steps from home. Neptune sinks the two roads nearest Orange County.
Org: (1/6) builds a street so he can run right through the middle, picking up the [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#12[/BGCOLOR] treasure and fleeing Neptune, ending up at g2. Neptune sinks the ~~#10~~ on his way over to b5.
Red: (1/6) #3 @ f3, moves through it (collecting the [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#3[/BGCOLOR] treasure) to reach a1 next to home. She leaves Neptune where he is, thus staying safe from his clutches.
Org: (3/3) #2 @ h4 and fills the street next to home, in spite of being halfway across the world. Moves through [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#3[/BGCOLOR] to [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#2[/BGCOLOR] , picking up both treasures. Neptune rolls a 2 to sink the #5, and ends up on the #9 at c3.
Red: (3/3) steps home to bank treasures ([BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#12[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#3[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#8[/BGCOLOR], and [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#6[/BGCOLOR]) then continues to c2. Builds #1 at b5, and moves Neptune 4 steps to cut a swathe through the streets across the middle of the board. Neptune ends up on an island building #2... with Orange!
Org: (3/4) #7 @ c7 and fills in a "ring road" via b2 to #7 and moves to b2. Leaving Neptune where he is, Orange is still safe. (Even building streets can't make Neptune less than four steps away.)

Orange and Red now share a street space at b2/c2. (The street tiles cover two squares each.)

Orange looks in great shape now... all I need do is walk the other half of the ring-road circuit picking up #1 and #7 on the way and make it home with every treasure.
Red still needs #1, #2, #4 ... and #4 is over at f8 while Red is near her corner at c2 so she needs to get all the way across and back.

Red: (3/4) moves Neptune to reach our street space (!) sinking #2 on the way so she can then build #2 @ c3 right next to us. She grabs the treasure at [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#2[/BGCOLOR] and runs home to bank [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#2[/BGCOLOR] and [BGCOLOR=#CC0000]#1[/BGCOLOR] immediately.

(Hang on... how did she get treasure #1? Post game discussion, it turns out she'd marked treasure #1 as "found" when she thought she was going there, then changed her mind about her move but forgot to restore the treasure. Oops.)

Org: (4/3) fills in the streets across the bottom of the board, linking to home, and collects treasure [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#1[/BGCOLOR]. Neptune rolls 2 and sinks the streets near Redtown, stranding Red in town with her last card for the hand having no build quota!
Red: (0/7) can do nothing. Neptune can no longer interfere. The Gods have deserted her.
Org: (0/7) runs through the [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#7[/BGCOLOR] building, collecting the final treasure, and makes it home to bank [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#1[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#2[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#3[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#4[/BGCOLOR], [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#7[/BGCOLOR], and [BGCOLOR=#FF9900]#12[/BGCOLOR] for the win!

Final Board Position:
]]>(With apologies, in this image "a1" is at the bottom left corner, letters running up the side.)

Some Thoughts, post 1st game:

There's some minor theme glitches. (I can't quite "write a story" out of the game motions. Not even a tale of conflict or a head-to-head race.) But the theming is fine to define the terms of play. This game was a lot of fun on first play, and very engaging.

The only random element is the distance-die for Neptune (rolls 1 to 4 on the special 2P die)... and it turned out not to feel like a random element. On a couple of turns I took a calculated risk, where Neptune could possibly have sunk me and my treasures, but for the most part we made tactical decisions as if Neptune would take a full 4 step move. We never found ourselves cursing the die rolls.

"Your Corner" of the world fills with buildings very quickly (only four or five buildings can fit "near home")... they're not allowed to touch, not even diagonally, and they can only be built on the dark blue spaces. This means either Neptune has to sink some of the nearby buildings and then sink the buildings on the other side of the board so you can rebuild those ones, or else you will have to traverse the entire board.

You could "block" your opponent by building things you both already both have in inconvenient spots near "their" corner.

Buildings you both still need should be built quickly in locations to your own benefit.

We will be playing again soon.

(Edit: add the image of the final board position.)

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jgrundy — 2008-02-28T14:26:08+00:00

2P: Orange traps red at home, dashes home to bank 6 treasures, and wins!

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cmessenger — 2008-02-23T15:16:10+00:00

Sunken City Buildings

Thread: Re: Is the Sunken City worth raising to the table?

wolper — 2008-01-28T04:04:14+00:00

Thanks for the review. Just a point though. I'm pretty sure if you sink yourself with Neptune you don't get the Neptune chip. Ah now I have to head back to the rules and check.

Thread: Re: Is the Sunken City worth raising to the table?

board_games_reno — 2008-01-04T18:48:44+00:00

I enjoy playing with family as it's easy to explain, has some interaction, and "racing" games do well with family. When I bring it to our game nights, it gets "pooh pooh" ed as too simple and one player always tries to lock out neptune so he can't move at all. Visually, it is great to look at, but I've never known "neptune" to exist in a lake

Mike Snedeker, pres.
Boardgamers of Reno

Thread: Re: Is the Sunken City worth raising to the table?

She-Wolf — 2008-01-04T15:48:10+00:00

Very nice review. Sunken City certainly is a lovely game to look at. I find that it always attracts a lot of attention from those who see it in play.

Thread: Is the Sunken City worth raising to the table?

Wild_Imagination — 2008-01-04T05:15:31+00:00

... Yes it is, but based on my group it won't get played as some other favorites. Still it is a good game and worth pulling out to play every 2-3 months (based on playing boardgames almost every weekend).

Trying to do a better job with this review than previous reviews (to get me closer to earning my Avatar & help those that wonder if they should fork over the money to get this game).

THEME =
Although it's theme is quite good, I don't think it rates a '4'. The theme is the players are explorers from upto four different villages. Each has the ability to raise a lost city of treasures from a lake where the city has been hidden. But apparently Neptune is either responsible for sinking the city in the first place, or it's his summer home ... either way he's not too happy about it getting dredged up from the lake bottom to be exposed to explorers. Although the write up on the box made Neptune sound very angry, his actions seem to be more neutral and just is miffed by the intrusion.

PRICE =
Now this is based on the price from Tanga. Personally due to you getting "burned out" on the game so quickly. I wouldn't pay too much over $15 (including shipping or sales tax).

QUALITY =
The only reason I didn't rate the game higher than a '4' is that I reserve that for games that really impressed me on the quality of the game. (i.e. it's a game that is really special!) All of the building artwork is protected by plastic. The cards are good sized ... don't think they are bridge-sized, but close and are a minor step down from the typical woven bridge card matte strength. The board and road pieces are good strength, and the board itself is small and light enough to work on a folding card table. Neptune could be better (like a painted figurine) but is satisfactory. The explorers and Neptune are all made of wood and professionally painted one color (Neptune is stenciled on in black).

ARTWORK =
The artwork in the game is one of it's strengths. The buildings are all different (save the two blank ones that are included either to mess with player based on house rules or just to keep the other buildings from sliding around in the box.) The little treasures the explorers find are nicely done up, and the board has different little starting villages for each player. Very professional looking!

LEARNING =
The basics of how to play this game are very straight-forward. Only had to glance back to verify how the 12th treasure is found, how Neptune works, and what triggers the end of the game. The rules are well written and not overly complex. A bunch of pictured examples help to clear up a number of key game concepts.

WEIGHT =
The game play is fairly light. I'd compare its weight a lot like Trans America. There's a bit more planning alternate routes since each player changes the layout based on their movement of Neptune as well as how they place the new roads and buildings.

LUCK =
The luck is more in the hands of the other players, and in the dice roll moving Neptune. Because based on their placement of roads and buildings, plus how they move Neptune (which sinks roads and buildings) changes the map or maze. Because Neptune changes the layout, the dice roll controlling how Neptune moves on opponent's or neutral areas this is the main place luck comes into play.

INTERACTION =
There's a pretty good amount of interaction in this game. Between the other player's choices of buildings to "raise", to the layout of roads, and finally how they move Neptune to sink parts of the map off of the board. I like that even if Neptune sinks the road or building you're on (making you lose the treasures you found -- just have to rediscover them) and sending you back to your village ... it's not a game destroyer since you're given a Neptune chip allowing a one shot super move running around extra spaces equal to the number of undiscovered treasures. In fact sometimes it's a good idea to be responsible for moving Neptune and sink yourself ... of course mainly just after you dropped off a bunch of treasures at your village.

WAITING =
There's not a lot of waiting between player moves. True, you can't really make a complete plan after your last move for the next, since the board (depending on the number of players) can be significantly different when it gets back to your turn. Still decisions can be made fairly quickly.

LENGTH =
I haven't played a 2-player game of this, yet ... but it seems to be over in about 30 minutes to just under an hour with 3-4 players. Actually the more players tend to make the road triggered game end happen sooner since there are more roads placed, and less roads to "activate" for the next phase. This makes the road piles empty a lot faster.

REPLAYABILITY =
As I noted before in cost, It's a solid game deserving to be played periodically, but it is easily shelved after one playing for a number of game sessions until it fits the need and time frame. Definitely one game of this for one game session should be expected ... unless it was your first game and you want to play again after you better understand how it's played. It's just too light of a game to play a lot. There are better "meatier" games out there ... true they often take up more time than Sunken City does, but still it lacks the hook to require a lot of repeated plays either in a day or a month.
Still, it is a great game to finish off a game day! It's light enough that if you have been scheming all day powering electric stations, feeding farmers, or shipping rum ... it is a fun game to not have to think a lot but instead sit back and enjoy the artwork as well as the challenge of running a changing gauntlet. It's not too light to never get picked, just won't always be the itch you need to scratch.

All in all, it's a great looking game that has a good mechanic for play and finishing before it makes the players weary of the game.

Thread: Re: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

theashers — 2007-10-31T14:41:19+00:00

DougOrleans wrote:
Is the special case only addressing what happens during that final round if street space 6 runs out?

That's how I interpreted it.

Same thought here, but slightly different...
During setup you put a stack of tiles (dependant on # players) onto space 1. Then one tile face down on each of the stacks 2-5. So you could have all the tiles on the board (from the 4 space), then flip space 5 face up, and one person gets to raise the lone street on space 5 from setup.

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

Elvisx — 2007-09-25T20:08:05+00:00

trojandoc wrote:
It has great production value

The game certainly is great to look at!

Thread: Re: What the heck is the '12' used for?

robdnose — 2007-09-23T11:28:11+00:00

Thanks to all who replied. You know, I feel like an idiot and I do this every time. When I played this game solo (just to get familiar with the game rules and mechanics) I could not, for the life of me, find any mention of the 12-point treasure. Last night I played the game with some friends and as I was explaining the rules to them, right there in front of me I see the one about the 12-point treasure. And it's not like the rulebook is poorly written. Quite the opposite, really. It's one of the most concisely written rulebooks I've encountered.

In any case, the game was a hit with our group and was very much enjoyed. Another great Tanga deal!

Thread: Re: What the heck is the '12' used for?

wtrollkin2000 — 2007-09-22T17:09:15+00:00

Just to clarify your example, that center building provides whatever number it is and the #12 treasure.

Thread: Re: What the heck is the '12' used for?

robdnose — 2007-09-22T14:35:08+00:00

Oh. Okay, so once Neptune makes his initial move off of the center square the #10 building sinks and returns to the Grotto. Then a player may raise any other building in the center square and that building is worth the 12-point treasure. I think I've got it and will try it that way next time. THANKS!

Thread: Re: What the heck is the '12' for?

sdonohue — 2007-09-22T14:05:16+00:00

Drew nailed it. Whichever building you visit while it is in the center square provides not only its normal treasure (if you still need it) but also the 12.

Thread: Re: What the heck is the '12' for?

Drew1365 — 2007-09-22T13:57:58+00:00

The Twelve treasure can be taken from any building rising in the center of the board. (I think.)

Thread: What the heck is the '12' for?

robdnose — 2007-09-22T13:38:44+00:00

Forgive me if this question has been answered already, but I did a quick search here at the geek and found none. In the game, there are numbered treasures that correspond to the buildings (1 through 10). However, there is a treasure with the number 12 on it, but no matching #12 building. So, what's the deal with this treasure? How is it claimed? What is the significance? Anyone?Sunken City

Thread: Re: What the heck is the '12' used for?

stormseeker75 — 2007-09-22T13:38:21+00:00

You know that dark square in the middle of the board that starts with 10 and Neptune on top? Well, anytime you get to that building, regardless of what number is in that square, you may claim the 12 treasure. Like all the others, its not safe until you get back to your camp.

Thread: What the heck is the '12' used for?

robdnose — 2007-09-22T13:33:00+00:00

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

trojandoc — 2007-09-12T01:37:52+00:00

I enjoy playing this game with my kids. It has great production value, well written rules, and interesting gameplay (action points with a push your luck element). Although, I don't think it is a very deep game at all and for this reason it works well as a family game. The bonus of the Neptune chip off-sets the penalty of being sent home without treasures, which diminishes the take-that element of Neptune.

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

skrebs — 2007-09-11T21:00:25+00:00

stormseeker75 wrote:
I would Bob. Its a lot better than I thought it was going to be. Halfway through our first game I was ready to call it quits. Then I figured out what I should be doing.

Jerry, I agree, best with 2. A bit chaotic with more.

I found the opposite. With two, the player interaction was minimal - so minimal that I felt I wasn't even playing my opponent. With more players, Neptune comes out more and the game really felt interactive.

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

swedgamer — 2007-09-11T20:23:46+00:00

A good title of the review for this game.

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

Elvisx — 2007-09-11T19:11:15+00:00

Interesting take, Steve. I'll think about picking this one up.

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

stormseeker75 — 2007-09-11T18:14:36+00:00

I would Bob. Its a lot better than I thought it was going to be. Halfway through our first game I was ready to call it quits. Then I figured out what I should be doing.

Jerry, I agree, best with 2. A bit chaotic with more.

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

Ashitaka — 2007-09-11T18:05:24+00:00

Thanks for the review Steve. Reminds me I still have a copy in the shrink. Guess I'm overdue for trying it out...

Thread: Re: Deeper than most people think

Nick Danger — 2007-09-11T18:01:25+00:00

I think it plays much better as a two player tit-for-tat type affair than it does with more people.

For what little that is worth.

Thread: Deeper than most people think

stormseeker75 — 2007-09-11T16:18:17+00:00

Sunken City was just another Tanga purchase for me. I read some fairly positive reviews and decided that almost any game is worth $12. If nothing else, I get the thrill of opening the box and looking at the new bits whilst puching cardboard. Thats really one of the things I enjoy most about a new game. But would that be the only thing I enjoyed about Sunken City?

Rules

The goal in Sunken City is to collect the most treasure. Each player has the same 11 treasures they are trying to collect before time (tracked by actual game pieces) runs out and the city sinks forever.

Each player has 1 pawn of their color to move around the board. Additionally, parts of the city must be raised above water for the players to travel and explore. Both of these tasks are dealt with by playing cards. Each player has the same set of 6 cards. These cards tell you how many city features (buildings and roads) you can raise, how many actions you can take, and that you can move Neptune (more on him later). The number of action points basically signifies how far you can move and is directly correlated to the number of city features you can raise. More AP = less features and vice versa.

Each player also has a treasure board with 11 face down treasures numbered 1-10 and 12. Whenever a player moves onto a building, he can flip over the corresponding treasure tile. If the player successfully moves back to their camp (1 for each color in the 4 corners) the tile can be taken off the treasure board and is set aside for endgame scoring. If Neptune sinks you, the tiles are flipped face-down and must be collected again.

Neptune, the god of the sea, isn't very fond of people stealing his treasures so he sets out to re-sink the city. On a player's turn, he can move Neptune either 4 spaces (if Neptune starts in that player's colored area of the board) or a number of spaces determined by a die roll (which changes based on number of players). Every time Neptune moves off a tile, its sinks back into the ocean. If he moves off a tile with a pawn on it, that player flips any treasures face-down and returns to their camp.

The game has a built in timer which is kept by the road tiles. Everytime a road is sunk, it is placed on a track. When the track moves down to the last space and all the roads are taken, the game ends and the player with the most treasure is the winner. A player may win early by getting all 11 of his treasures back to his camp.

Components

If nothing else, Sunken City is a nice looking game. The board is made up of a grid of squares and has a different color camp in each corner. Player's start in their respective color and must get treasures back to the camp for them to score. The grid is comprised of dark blue and light blue squares in a diamond pattern with a single brown square in the middle. The board is rather attractive and works well with the theme.

The street tiles are fairly large and cover two of the squares on the board. They are made of a quality piece of cardboard and are covered with a matte finish. The artwork on these pieces is nothing special, but it works well enough.

The building pieces are pretty unusual. They are plastic squares, about the size of a golf ball and feature nice artwork. Each building has a number which corresponds to the treasure tiles so players know which tile to flip over. Again, the look and feel of these pieces is unique to this game and makes it stand out by adding a 3D effect to the board.

The player pawns are really nothing special to look at but at least they are made of wood. Neptune isn't much better, being a larger piece of blue wood with some etchings in the general resemblance of a man's torso. These pieces are nothing special, but they do the job.

I'm a fan of dice, so I was pleasantly surprised to see three wooden dice in the box. I like wood dice. I like the way they bounce, the way they roll, and the way they sound on the table. This in no way affects the game, but its a small thing I really appreciate.

The Action cards are nice for the purpose they serve. They are printed on quality stock and adorned with nice artwork, covered by a matte finish. Again, these cards are adequate but nothing special.

One additional note is the box size. The box is really large and will require a good amount of shelf space. However, the insert is really well designed and holds the various pieces really well. Still, I think the box could probably be downsized. This isn't really important, but you should prepare space on your game shelf for this big boy.

Gameplay

Sunken City gets a bad rap as a light family game with too much "take that" to be good for the family. I'm not entirely sure how this happened, but I think anyone lumping it in that category is missing the point. While this is not a deep gamer's game, there are plenty of choices to be made. The "take that" factor will always be present, but it is not interal to winning the game or enjoying it.

The main decision that needs to be made every turn is which Action card a player should play. The tricky part is that you don't get your cards back until you've played them all, making your decision that much harder. You will primarily be influenced by which treasures you still need to claim and where your opponent is.

I believe the "take that" factor is over-emphasized by many people. While it may first appear that Neptune's only purpose is to sink your opponent, the true purpose of Neptune is to sink pieces so you can place them in a position that is better for you and worse for your opponent. If you need the 10 building and it is on the other side of the board, you would be much wiser to use Neptune to sink it so that you can then place it closer to your side of the board. This leads to another key principle: staying close to home. If you venture out too far into the middle of the board, it will be easy for your opponent to use Neptune to sink you.

The gameplay really revolves around balance. You need to balance your ability to collect treasure, to move around the board, and to keep Neptune in a position where he can neither hurt you or help your opponent. Its all dependent on how you play your cards, which are also balanced in their movement/building relationships.

Gameplay shouldn't take longer than an hour for two players and not much longer than 90 minutes for 4. While the game is labeled as a 2-4 player game, I believe it is best with 2. A 4-player affair will probably turn quite chaotic and result in the winner being the player who got luckiest or who flew under the radar.

Compare it to....

Sunken City is a Kramer/Kiesling game and is based around the Action Point system, so you can compare it in principle to their classics such as Torres, Tikal, Java, and Mexica. This game is nowhere near as deep as the Mask trilogy, but I think it is a much better game than Torres. Torres is basically an abstract with a painfully thin theme while Sunken City is a tile-laying exploratory adventure which is both serving and served by its theme. The action point system is all that is really common in these games, but it is enought to draw comparisons to other games by these authors.

Overall

I think Sunken City is really misunderstood. After the success of the Mask trilogy and Torres, K&K catch a lot of heat for producing games that are too light. While Sunken City may not be the Analysis Paralysis producing affair that Tikal is, there is certainly room for thought and decision making. The game moves pretty quickly with constant changes in the board forcing you to think tactically. There is no room in a game like this for strategic decisions even if you have a long-term plan. There is just too much chaos for strategic positioning because it can be undone the next turn by your opponent.

Despite what the nay-sayers say, I think Sunken City is a fun game. While not as deep as many games, there are a lot of choices to be made. Making the right choices will undo the small luck factor and greatly reduce the "take that" element. Again, balance is everything in this game. As long as you remember that, chaos should be held in check.

I rate Sunken City a 7/10. Its a deceptively complex game hiding behind a lighter front. Once you get into the layers, you'll find all sorts of choices and play style that really add a lot more depth than most people give it credit for. This is not a gamer's game, but its also a lot deeper than standard family games. I would classify it as a light-middleweight. If this comes up on Tanga again, I highly recommend people pick it up. The price they sell if for is a steal.

Thread: english rules

tor_hatlebakk — 2007-09-03T15:01:38+00:00

Hello, i have the german version and would really like if anybody uploaded their english rules, not just the advanced. I will pay this person 5 dollars or 5 euro.

thx

tor åsmund hatlebakk

Thread: english rules

tor_hatlebakk — 2007-09-03T15:01:10+00:00

Hello, i have the german version and would really like if anybody uploaded their english rules, not just the advanced. I will pay this person 5 dollars or 5 euro.

thx

tor åsmund hatlebakk

Thread: Re: Neptune Tokens - Yay or Nay?

Sinister Dexter — 2007-08-25T11:44:00+00:00

I'd say yes, also. It's a good balancing mechanism.

Thread: Re: neptune tokens

Sinister Dexter — 2007-08-23T23:19:16+00:00

Jonathan Degann wrote:
You get one anytime an opponent causes you to lose treasures that you were carrying with you.

Actually, the condition isn't that specific. Anytime you are sunk and forced back to your village, you get a Neptune token. You don't have to be carrying treasure.

Thread: Re: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

DougOrleans — 2007-08-20T04:10:59+00:00

Is the special case only addressing what happens during that final round if street space 6 runs out?

That's how I interpreted it.

Thread: Re: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

dsr15 — 2007-08-18T17:20:23+00:00

In the few games I've played everyone moves Neptune a lot, so we haven't run into this situation. I wonder if you're ahead in the game - would not moving Neptune be a good strategy then to help move the game to the end before someone catches up? I'll have to try that next time and see how it goes.

Thread: Re: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

matt71 — 2007-08-08T00:58:37+00:00

Well I WAS going to eat dinner, but now I'll pass.

And thanks for the replies.

Thread: Re: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

Drew — 2007-08-06T15:03:59+00:00

As an aside, I had to laugh the first time I saw the term "Neptune Chips" in the rules. I couldn't help but think of "buffalo chips".

Thread: Re: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

Darkwind — 2007-08-06T13:56:58+00:00

wtrollkin2000 wrote:
...or seek Neptune out to build up some Neptune Chips (both have viable strategies)

Yep, especially if you have no treasures to lose. As long as you are not the one moving Neptune to return you back to your vilage, you get the Neptune Chip. It is a strategy I have used a few times and it has worked out pretty well.

Thread: Re: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

wtrollkin2000 — 2007-08-06T13:02:54+00:00

...or seek Neptune out to build up some Neptune Chips (both have viable strategies)

Thread: Re: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

matt71 — 2007-08-06T04:07:28+00:00

Thanks for the reply.

I remember the rule you mention. I interpreted the rule only if Neptune moves on the space a player already occupies. However, I didn't know if the rule could be applied the other way around.

I thought it would make more sense if players were not allowed to move onto a space that Neptune occupied already but I wasn't sure. My reasoning was why would any "adventurer" want to purposely confront Neptune? The idea is to stay as far away from him as possible.

Thread: Re: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

Drew — 2007-08-06T03:38:25+00:00

Yes the player can occupy or pass through a building that Neptune occupies. The rules mentions "City Piece" regarding this issue which are mentioned in the "Gameplay" section to be both Buildings and Streets. Specifically the rule reads: "As long as the Adventure is sitting on a City Piece upon which Neptune movement ends, nothing happens to the Adventure"

Thread: Stealing Treasure From Neptune

matt71 — 2007-08-06T03:11:07+00:00

Can a player occupy and/or pass through a building and take the treasure if its occupied by Neptune?

Thread: Re: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

m_r_tyler — 2007-07-07T19:39:39+00:00

So one way to really speed up a game of Sunken City is to never move Neptune. It kind of bugs me that the game almost requires that street tiles be returned to the draw pools for it to work correctly.

Thread: Re: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

Apparatus — 2007-07-07T19:27:07+00:00

I sat down and simulated out a dozen or so games trying to figure out when "special case" mentioned above would come into play. So far, I have yet to find any reason/opportunity that would not end the game normally.

Thread: Re: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

m_r_tyler — 2007-06-20T16:09:12+00:00

I emailed Uberplay and received no answer. Anyone out there that can help me out?

Thread: Re: neptune tokens

big__rhino — 2007-06-10T23:32:24+00:00

thank you very much!

Thread: Re: neptune tokens

Jonathan Degann — 2007-06-08T19:19:16+00:00

You start with no Neptune tokens.

You get one anytime an opponent causes you to lose treasures that you were carrying with you. This will happen when someone has Neptune leave the space you're in while you are carrying treasures. At that time, you go back to your home and all the treasures that you had not yet brought home are lost and flipped face down on your mat.

Thread: neptune tokens

rhino23 — 2007-06-08T18:55:03+00:00

we have read the rules a couple times and just can't find where it says how many neptune tokens you get to start and when you get them during the game. need help thanx.

Thread: Special Case: The Street Tiles run out

m_r_tyler — 2007-06-08T05:25:22+00:00

At the very end of the Uberplay rules is this paragraph:

Uberplay Rules wrote:
Special Case: The Street Tiles run out
In rare instances, it is possible that the supply of Street Tiles may run out. If this happens, no Streets can rise up until some have been sunk again. If there are insufficient Streets available, than the "Streets and Building Rise Up" Action becomes optional.

This puzzles me because one of the triggers for the end of the game is:

Uberplay Rules wrote:
The stack of Street Tiles on Street Space 5 is exhausted, revealing the Sand Timer.

Seems to me that if you run out of street tiles, then the stack of street tiles on space 5 is exhausted and thus the final round is underway. Is the special case only addressing what happens during that final round if street space 6 runs out?

Our first game of Sunken City was quite unusual in that we were all very reluctant to move Neptune. The result of this was that street tiles were rarely returned to the face down draw stacks. This in turn caused us to use up the available street tiles very rapidly. We used up all the street tiles before any one had collected more than 5 treasures. This seemed too soon to trigger the end round so I saw the special case at the end of the rules and thought it was talking about our case. We decided to just keep playing until someone collected all 11 treasures, but I would like an official interpretation on how the game is supposed to be played once the street tiles run out.

Thread: Re: Dropping off treasure

Scott Firestone IV — 2007-05-18T17:09:49+00:00

You can still spend leftover movement points to head back out.

Image

ikajaste — 2007-02-23T09:35:55+00:00