Game: Fifth Avenue

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BaSL — 2008-04-16T06:55:48+00:00

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Rokkr — 2007-12-01T20:00:34+00:00

unpunched counter sheet

Thread: Re: house rule to fix fagility

lordunborn — 2007-10-25T13:49:31+00:00

That sounds like a pretty good rule. I will try it this weekend and let you know how it turns out

Thread: Re: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

lordunborn — 2007-10-25T13:44:29+00:00

woundwart wrote:
That was what I thought. Someone mentioned in their comments about the game that there was a misprint and that there was a limit.

Page 8 of the rules states that you can only build in 1 plot per district for the entire game and they specify that you can build ANY number of skyscrapers in that plot.

Thread: Re: Oddicity

GeoMan — 2007-09-12T21:55:49+00:00

Paul Mackie wrote:
I say this because Pat indicated that there had been reports of the game being broken, in particular by the playing of shop tokens which, if used quickly by the players, could bring the game to a premature and abrupt end.

Novices can end the game quickly by placing shops but they aren't going to win if you place your skyscrapers next to these shops (as skyscrapers act as multipliers).

Thread: Re: Oddicity

davedanger — 2007-09-12T21:13:50+00:00

Uh, I think the commissioners give players control over score time and district. Which brings me to...78 minutes? That should come way down with repeated play. Try the geek aids.
:meeple:

Thread: Re: First Play

davedanger — 2007-09-12T21:06:35+00:00

Did you read the geek aids?
We tried very hard to make it less painful.
:laugh:

Thread: First Play

bryanspellman — 2007-09-12T16:57:24+00:00

This was a fresh open and my 2nd game with this new group. The set up took longer as everything was still shrink-wrapped and we read the rules as we set up the game. Our host had read the rules over twice before we got there but that was it. So it was slow going into this session.

The concept seemed simple and the game play is very fast. The action comes in the Auctions. Every player gets to move a commissioner at the end of their turn. Once the commish crossed the board and returns to his "office" all districts he visits are up for auction. This is where it gets fun. You can bid on any color district unless you have buildings there. Then you can only bid on THAT color. The problem being you must have those color cards to bid at all. Once you open with the color card you want THEN you can use a mix of that color and the Black cards. On top of that, the number of buildings able to be build depends on the cards you use. One player won the bid using only the number 4 cards. That let him build 3 buildings on the site. Another auction got hot and heavy but the winner had to use a 6 card so he could only build one building. Bidding smart, one player bid and won a district but had no buildings to place. But he stopped anyone else from building there.

The other part of the game was placing the businesses. When the businesses are gone the game is over. We placed the businesses much to quickly but the game really ended this session the first time a player SCORED a district. David scored one district and got 32 points. The rest of us were at 0/3/7. At that point we all placed a business to get to the end before he could SCORE again.

Final Score:
David 90
Adam 46
Bryan 33
Kevin 22

Fifth Avenue is a pretty good game. I think if we had played it a few times we would have all learned a little of the strategy and balance the creators put into this game.

I would like to give it a go again!

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Werbaer — 2007-07-07T10:23:18+00:00

shop markers

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Werbaer — 2007-07-07T10:23:00+00:00

commissioners and path markers

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Werbaer — 2007-07-07T10:22:30+00:00

turn overview cards

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Werbaer — 2007-07-07T10:21:44+00:00

back of the box

Thread: Oddicity

Paul Mackie — 2007-07-04T04:18:28+00:00

Pat introduced this to the rest of us and explained that this was an unusual game, probably not one of his favourites, but something he was keen to have another go at. It kind of reminded me of Manhattan at first sight, with city blocks and little skyscrapers.
[url=http://www.themineshaftgap.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/MSG07070105.jpg][IMG]http://www.themineshaftgap.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/MSG07070105.thumbnail.jpg[/IMG]
But this game is very different. There are five sites in each of the seven city blocks. The sites can take your coloured skyscrapers, or “neutral” shops that benefit skyscrapers adjacent. On a turn, before moving a commissioner token to another block, players typically (but not necessarily) draw cards, which help them in site auctions. Auctions are the only way to get more of your skyscrapers into the city blocks, and are triggered each time one of the commissioners completes a stroll of the board.

The commissioner aspect of the game is a little strange in terms of theming, although I gather this is meant to reflect some kind of town planning process. There is also an extra, Central Park block for which spaces are also auctioned, and the points accounting mechanism for this seems completely arbitrary to me and devoid of all reason.
However, in our playing at least, the game seemed to work OK. I say this because Pat indicated that there had been reports of the game being broken, in particular by the playing of shop tokens which, if used quickly by the players, could bring the game to a premature and abrupt end. In our game, I think the pace of this was about right, and in fact it was me who triggered the game end, thinking I would have just enough points to stay ahead of Neil F. A careful but simple count would have shown that this was not so, but I didn’t care too much about the end result by the time it came around.

I doubt that Fifth Avenue will hit the table top too often in our group. But I’d certainly be prepared to give it another playing.
24 mins rules and setup; 78 mins game time.
Results: Neil F. (yellow): 65. Paul (green): 57. Brad (red): 49. Pat (blue): 46.
[IMG]http://www.themineshaftgap.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/sparkline/image.php?t=bar&h=30&w=10&f=&l=1&s=65_57_49_46&c=yellow_green_red_blue[/IMG]

(Originally posted down [url=http://www.themineshaftgap.com/blog/]The Mine Shaft Gap. Pic by [url=http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/Mijjy]Mijjy.)

Thread: Re: Language independent?

SteveK2 — 2007-06-24T11:54:50+00:00

Completely language independent (apart from the rules and player aids). Actually there are some street names / district names as "flavour" words on the board, but they are English.

Thread: Language independent?

Johan — 2007-06-24T11:47:24+00:00

Well, subject says it all really. Is this language independent?

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Werbaer — 2007-06-11T22:11:24+00:00

components (promotion image from publisher, used with permission)

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Werbaer — 2007-06-11T21:58:33+00:00

shelf view (alea edition) (promotion image from publisher, used with permission)

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Werbaer — 2007-06-08T10:03:38+00:00

box cover (better resolution)

Thread: Re: Building Stop Scoring

Thommy8 — 2006-09-27T04:24:06+00:00

Thanks Chris. I hadn't checked in the General forum, just in the Rules forum to see if someone had already asked this.

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tuneloon — 2006-09-23T02:31:57+00:00

4 Player (Alternate) Board

Thread: Re: Building Stop Scoring

fnord23 — 2006-09-22T05:18:06+00:00

Addressed here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/24753

The rulebook is correct. The player aid is wrong.

Thread: Building Stop Scoring

Thommy8 — 2006-09-22T04:09:39+00:00

There seems to be a contradiction between the rule book and the player summary cards for scoring after a building stop occurs.

The rule book says (page 9) that the player declaring the building stop earns 1 victory point for each skyscraper in the district, and the other players earn half (rounded down) of the victory points they would if this district were scored normally (i.e., Option D, 1st action).

However, the player summary cards say that the player declaring the building stop earns 1 victory point per skyscraper, and the other players earn 1/2 VP per skyscraper (rounded down).

Those aren't the same, right? According to the rulebook, a player who did not trigger the building stop would earn 8 VP if they have 2 skyscrapers adjacent to 4 businesses (half of the normal 16 they would earn). But according to the player summary card, that same player would only get 1 VP if they have those same 2 skyscrapers and there is only 1 other skyscraper in the district. This is a bit tricky to convey without visuals, but hopefully you get the idea. So which is it, any thoughts?

Thread: Re: house rule to fix fagility

kestrelboston — 2006-08-26T21:42:41+00:00

Here's how my gaming group slows down the grabbing of businesses from the business supply row. We have adopted a house rule that states that a player cannot draw from a section of the supply row if the bonus condition for the previous section has not been reached by at least one player. Therefore, a player cannot draw a business tile from the row after the (>=3) mark until any one player has skyscrapers in 3 or more different districts. Similarly any player must be in least 4 or 5 districts before business tiles can be chosen past the (>=4) or (>=5) marks, respectively.

The player drawing the tile does not have to be the player who has met the # of districts condition; any player can open up the next section of the row for everyone.

This rule is separate from the special scoring of the business supply row. It is possible that no player receives a particular bonus since the previous section can be emptied of businesses before anyone meets the bonus condition. This rule simply prohibits the next section of business tiles from being available until the (>=N) condition is subsequently met by any player.

Using this rule, the four-player game should use the expanded game board, otherwise it might be difficult for one player to break into the fifth district and open up the last section. Alternately, you may want to have Central Park count as a district for this condition only.

We have found that this house rule helps slow down fast moving games and new player mistakes without greatly altering strategy. Try it out and offer your feedback here.

Thread: Re: Put Your Stock In Fifth Avenue

beefsack — 2006-06-18T14:14:55+00:00

played this game for the first time and wholeheartedly agree with this review, this game is a gem in the rough and sits near the top of the alea bookshelf games, look forward to the next play :) the game we just had was just 2 player as well

Thread: Re: Evaluating a block and Endgame scoring

Bergbau — 2006-04-05T10:06:25+00:00

Thanks for a great answer!

Yes, I have played the game and we did enjoy it. Very much, even though we discovered more and more about the rules and even more about tactics and strategy.

So I think we sniffed a bit on the finer lines from this game.

We missed that you would get an additional black card in case you have not scored. Thanks again.

And of course I didn't have a clue regarding CP and the shops going there. But I'm still not feeling comfortable about the end scoring.

/Strömer, from Sweden

Thread: Re: Evaluating a block and Endgame scoring

davedanger — 2006-04-04T20:51:40+00:00

I just want to add we play more of this and get faster which makes for more interesting games..and keep learning new tactics. :meeple:

Thread: Re: Evaluating a block and Endgame scoring

Henry Rhombus — 2006-04-03T15:27:25+00:00

Bergbau wrote:
1. Are you allowed to choose the "D"-action, to evaluate a block when no houses are built? If so, are the other actions strong enough?

Yes, you can. This situation won't happen often since each player places skyscrapers in two districts at the start of the game, but it can happen. Remember that all players who score no points draw a black card. In this situation, you will draw three black cards and each of your opponents will draw one.

To score a district, a commissioner must stand in that district, and other players aren't likely to leave a commissioner sitting in a district that scores you lots of points.

The A, B, & C actions all have good uses. If you keep choosing D, thanks to weak opponents, then you will have no colored cards and no skyscrapers to place in districts. You won't be able to participate in auctions (since you must start with a colored card), and if you do win an auction somehow, you won't be able to place buildings!

Bergbau wrote:
2. Three tiny tiles are drawn at the end of the game. This lottery can totally decide the outcome. I think this is even worse in this game than in Louis XIV. Any house rule to fix this?

Have you played the game yet? Yes, the endgame can be swingy, but since the three businesses are chosen from all the tiles in CP, you have some level of control over what might happen. Business tiles are placed in Central Park during the game as players place businesses in districts. Tiles don't randomly end up in Central Park; you and the other players have control over which tiles go to Central Park.

If you're not winning auctions in Central Park, then you should try to send businesses of the same type to CP so that skyscrapers in CP score only 2 points each. If you are winning auctions, then send different types of businesses to CP.

I've seen only once a player win by gambling big and netting a huge score in Central Park, but normally you need a balanced approach to the game. You want to score throughout the game in many ways and minimize the effect of the endgame by winning auctions in CP. If you have a presence in CP, then you're also affected by the endgame scoring and don't lose ground to those who have placed all their hopes in that final draw.

Fifth Avenue has been highly enjoyable every time I've played, with each game feeling different as players discover how to do new things. Play the game as published a few times before immediately adopting house rules. The more times you play, the more you see how tightly connected everything is, even the endgame draw in Central Park. Have fun!

Thread: Evaluating a block and Endgame scoring

Bergbau — 2006-04-03T10:55:52+00:00

1. Are you allowed to choose the "D"-action, to evaluate a block when no houses are built? If so, are the other actions strong enough?

2. Three tiny tiles are drawn at the end of the game. This lottery can totally decide the outcome. I think this is even worse in this game than in Louis XIV. Any house rule to fix this?

/Strömer, from Sweden

Thread: Getting down with real estate

Odat — 2006-03-16T05:00:18+00:00

Marisue: 71
Terence: 53
Dan: 45

To start off this gaming Saturday, Dancin' Dan showed up with a bunch of his games that we'd asked him to being (Amun Re for one), and also Fifth Avenue, which he'd never played a full game of.

We're always up for learning a new game, so he outlined the rules and then we were off and running, trying to find the best places to build up buildings.

I must say that both Marisue and Myself really enjoyed the mechanics of the game quite a bit. Things didn't really pick up until after the first string of auctions occured. After that, all hell broke loose all over the board.

During the entire game, nobody ever took the action to score a district, since everyone was sure to leave the marker in a place that would not score the next player to have a turn any points. It really seems as if the only time anyone would take this action would be in a two player game or something.

The only points scoring during the course of the game occured when a section of businesses was cleaned out and I was the only player to have any buildings in at least five districts, scoring me eight points.

Other highlights of the game included an auction phase where only one person had any buildings and an auction where Marisue won an auction with two green #4 cards, only to discover that she only had two buildings left and wanted to save one for the next auction to occur.

Unfortunately for me, I delayed ending the game a turn too long, which was enough time for more unique businesses to appear in central park just as Marisue won an auction to get more buildings in there.

In the endgame scoring, Marisue got a ton of points when the three businesses randomly selected from central park where all different, giving her a ton of points.

If I had ended the game a turn sooner, I think I would have won the game, or at least come a lot closer to her score.

Great game, and definitly looking forward to playing it again.

Thread: Re: house rule to fix fagility

woundwart — 2006-02-24T01:53:21+00:00

hello, is this thing on, hello

Thread: Re: house rule to fix fagility

woundwart — 2006-02-22T19:40:37+00:00

I agree that early shop palcment is not a good idea but for the many players this is not obvious the first time through. Look at the lukewarm reception the game has gotten on the geek. Several prominent Geeks have panned the game becuase of this weakness. If one or more players go after the shops early on then the game ends quickly leaving a sour taste in the players mouths. I am suggesting a house rule that will prevent first time players from making a mistake that is very easy to fall into. I like the game very much but the first time we played it sure enough two of us were placing shops like crazy. I would rather have a simple house rule to steer first time players to better strategies than have to explain to them why the obvious move is really not the best move.

Thread: Re: house rule to fix fagility

Henry Rhombus — 2006-02-22T19:16:37+00:00

Todd, I've heard stories about this game's fragility, but I've yet to see it happen in a half-dozen plays. Alea usually tests its games extensively, and I'd imagine that a solution exists to early shop placements, possibly by taking the C action, which gives you an extra card and grants you two commissioner movements that turn. If you plop a bunch of skyscrapers next to someone else's businesses, they won't be so eager to end the game anymore.

Thread: house rule to fix fagility

woundwart — 2006-02-22T16:27:49+00:00

So I have a thought on how to fix the fragile issue of the game. What if you could not choose to build a shop until one or both of the Comissioners returned from Central Park. this would prevent the "early Shop placement" that can speed the game to an unsatisfactory conclusion. My only question is should the restriction be lifted after one auction round or after the second?

Thread: Re: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

woundwart — 2006-02-22T12:57:35+00:00

That was what I thought. Someone mentioned in their comments about the game that there was a misprint and that there was a limit.

Thread: Re: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

GeoMan — 2006-02-19T15:47:01+00:00

Glamorous Mucus wrote:
Your limit per district is 18. In other words, your entire supply. :meeple:

:thumbsup:

Thread: Re: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

Glamorous Mucus — 2006-02-19T14:24:59+00:00

Your limit per district is 18. In other words, your entire supply. :meeple:

Thread: Re: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

Henry Rhombus — 2006-02-19T07:48:54+00:00

You can build at most three skyscrapers on one turn, but over the course of the game, you can pile in as many skyscrapers as you have available. This can lead to huge points -- or it can backfire and lead to someone closing off a district to shut down your potential goldmine.

Thread: Re: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

GeoMan — 2006-02-19T01:20:45+00:00

During an Auction you can build a max of 3 buildings (depending on the cards you play).

There isn't an overall limit, so during the game you can build as many buildings as you like in the same district.

Thread: limit to the number of Skyscrappers in a district

woundwart — 2006-02-19T01:03:16+00:00

Is there a limit to the number of skyscrapper you can build in a district?

Thread: Strategy

davedanger — 2006-01-11T18:21:31+00:00

Just a general outline since this game seems to not get
repeat play.
(Other helpful comments welcome)

Don’t let a player start a turn with a commissioner in his/her lot.

Stockpile towers. If in a big auction, you want to place more than 1 &
have reserves.

Win auctions with 4’s (maybe 5’s)
If you lose you get them back.
6’s (and 5’s) can be used to make others bid higher than they want to(& use up their 4’s ).

Save more than 1 card of EACH color for cheap auctions.
I’ve seen some won with 1 color card & you can't bid at all if you don't have 1 color to match.

Trigger an auction if you have a color superiority to win in Central Park.

Take 4's when you take 2 colored cards.

Spread out to get the bonus(s) for the points and also you may force someone to move/leave a commissioner to your lot for you to score.

Thread: Re: Put Your Stock In Fifth Avenue

GeoMan — 2005-12-31T00:20:06+00:00

Very good game when played with the right group.

Thread: Re: Put Your Stock In Fifth Avenue

davedanger — 2005-12-30T18:59:39+00:00

Just another voice saying:
"GREAT GAME!"
:D

Thread: Re: User Review

davedanger — 2005-12-30T18:57:36+00:00

I agree with Michael. Highly underated.
I think the auctions are tense and fun.
I like the fragilness- A player can speed the game up,
control when auctions happen, etc.
Objectively, I say the mechanics are unique- which some gamers demand.
(I only care what the final game does)
It should be a fast game, but if you have the wrong group it can drag.
To me a "soul less" game is Puerto Reeko.:p

Thread: Re: User Review

generalpf — 2005-11-06T09:37:00+00:00

Hi Tom, great review, and I realize I'm late to the party here, but I just wanted to let you know that I have the exact same opinion after playing it once. We understood the rules and everything made sense, but it just wasn't *interesting*.

Thread: Re: Put Your Stock In Fifth Avenue

SwedeLad — 2005-11-02T10:45:44+00:00

Amazing how underrated this game is on BGG. This game was a pleasant surprise for me.

Thread: Re: Fifth Avenue in a Fog

agentjonz — 2005-10-14T14:22:38+00:00

This is a kick-*ss session report, and the only thing I've read that's made me remotely interested in playing or buying the game. You are an excellent writer. I hope you continue to post more!

Thread: Re: Fifth Avenue in a Fog

PruneSoda — 2005-10-11T19:22:19+00:00

Thanks, Phil! Glad you liked the report. You are, of course, exactly right regarding the construction stop. I had a skyscaper there, and I was flanking it with luxuries-- more to control the Central Park kitty than for scraper points. It wasn't my design, but it allowed the area to be shut down.

Eric, I should point out, was complicit in his defeat-- graciously pointing out to Brett how advantageous it would be to close down his district. Although I think Brett had probably already figured that out.

You're one of Eric's old friends from MA?

Thread: Re: Fifth Avenue in a Fog

Spielfreak — 2005-10-10T10:58:48+00:00

Excellent session report! You captured the angst and essence of the session without getting bogged down with actual rules explanations. And yes, I can personally attest to having the game turn out differently each time it's played, as I've sat across from Evil Eric in most of those games. I kinda chuckled as I read your report, thinking "jeepers, Eric's trying the Shultz strategy of over-building one section and constantly scoring it". What messed up Eric in this instance, however, was that somone else had a skyscraper in the section, taking up plot space and making the section susceptible to the STOP.

I enjoy Fifth Avenue, and regret the missed opportunity of playing it with Eric at UG-X.

Thread: Fifth Avenue in a Fog

PruneSoda — 2005-10-09T22:12:15+00:00

Players:
Max (me)
Eric
Adam
Brett

It had been a rough time for me, so far. Allergies were killing me, and I felt like someone was holding my head underwater. We had just come off of playing "Time's Up"-- a game that was a variant of charades, of all things, and so when Eric suggested a game that involved less player interaction and more sitting still, I was all for it.

Eric elegantly explained the rules, which it seemed there were an awful lot of. I clearly should have been paying more attention here-- I can usually only take so many minutes of rules, after which I just adopt a "I'll figure it out as it goes along" stance. The gist of it I got-- the commisioners were going to be zipping around town, and we were going to be throwing skyscrapers and businesses at the city. The details of the game I was a little less sure of-- but again, my head was underwater and my mind felt hazy.

In my memory, the game had two distinct parts, pre-pizza and post-pizza. (The pizza was ordered by interested parties; it was not a game mechanic.) The pre-pizza game seemed to consist of Adam, Brett and I playing badly (as we attempted to get a grip on mechanics and strategy) while Eric ruled the board. Eric was the only experienced player, and for the first few turns, we all just emulated him. Eric's turn: three new skyscrapers. Max's turn, Brett's turn, Adam's turn: ditto. Somehow this strategy did not seem to benefit anyone but Eric-- who built up a veritible phalanx of skyscapers around lower 42th street, while the rest of merely looked on, powerless and in horror.

Gradually, Adam, Brett and I began to get a handle on things though, and we each seemed to develop different strategies for victory. Brett pursued a plan of diversification-- having a 'scraper or two in nearly every section of the city, allowing him bonuses throughout the game. Eric concentrated on his grove of skyscrapers in lower 42nd street, giving the area the majority of his attention, and showering it with luxury businesses. Adam pursued a middle of the road strategy, picking a few districts and developing them. He also seemed to be developing his hand more than the board-- he was quietly building up a large number of cards and skyscrapers to be deployed later. My strategy came about by accident, through my feeling ill: twice in the game I planned on building skyscrapers in seperate sections in a district, which is illegal. Despite the fact this was explained to me THREE TIMES, I continued to make the mistake. I blame the fog of allergies.

The result of which was: I would get to end of an auction-- that I initiated-- and have played no skyscrapers the whole time. Unwiling to admit that I had screwed up, I would then use the last remaining auction, for Central Park, to unload all the skyscrapers I had hoped to place elsewhere. Thus I became Central Park Guy.

After we broke from pizza, I began to feel worlds better. The fog cleared, and it suddenly dawned upon me that my board position did not look very good. I had very few 'scrapers on the board (aside from Central Park) and I was in dead last. I vaguely hoped to develop my lone skyscraper in 'Erictown', which was indeed becoming a very nice place. Brett, however, felt that things were getting out of control in lower 42nd street, and ordered a construction stop on the district. This was mildly irritating to me, but would be the nail in Eric's coffin. (Eric later suggested that he had been too 'greedy' in overdeveloping the district.) Brett continued his plan of having Brettscrapers in every section of the city, and after the construction stop looked to be the new frontrunner. Adam, after patiently building up a hand full of fours, had an explosive turn, transforming Times Square into the glittering jewel of the city, and claiming an additional district to boot. It was quite impressive-- in one turn he went from Confused On-looker, to Force To Be Reckoned With.

Meanwhile, my newfound clarity was not giving me much to work with. My board position was lousy-- with the construction stop in 'Erictown', I only had skyscrapers in one other district, and my cards weren't great for developing it. I managed to eke out two more scrapers in north 42nd street, but mostly I focused on Central Park, this time on purpose. I began using my turns to fortify my last set of cityscrappers with luxuries-- simulteanously benefitting both the 'scrapers in the park and in the city.

Eric had a huge lead on everyone in points, still, and his goal was to end the game now as quickly as he could, calculating that the more time everyone else had, the worse he was going to do. This coupled with my pillaging the board for luxuries shops, meant that the game ended relatively soon after pizza.

The board was scored, as we finished, and Adam was first, with Brett and Eric not terribly far behind. The last thing to be totalled were the Central Park skyscrapers, which would be assigned a random point value, based upon the luxuries that were turned over. These were practically all the points that I had, and my goal was basically to not finish last. Then again, I had a somewhat absurd number of skyscrapers there-- 9 or 10, I think. Ironically, New York's nature sanctuary was the most developed part of the city.

As it happened, I got the luckiest possible draw of luxuries, and catapulted from last to a tie with Adam for first. We consulted the rules for tiebreakers, and discovered that my holding 8 cards to Adam's 7 gave me the victory.

Yoikes!

It was a fun game, although I felt a little guilty hammering out the win, when I felt like Adam had played the best. But I'm definitely intrigued by it-- there were a lot of game options that went relatively unexplored-- no one, I believe, ever used the commissioner to score a lone district. Eric mentioned that he had played the game several times now, and each time it had played out differently. I can definitely see how that could be true, given the reactive nature of one's plays.

A fun area control game, if that's your bag. Think of it as El Grande on Wheels. I'd like to give this one another try.

Thread: Re: Put Your Stock In Fifth Avenue

Titan — 2005-09-29T02:03:01+00:00

Good review. I rated it a "5".
I'm the only one in our group who really enjoys ths game. Nobody else is willing to give it a fair shake.

Thread: Put Your Stock In Fifth Avenue

r2mites — 2005-09-22T23:11:23+00:00

Fifth Avenue by Wilko Manz

A Snapshot Look
At first analysis, Fifth Avenue seems to be a game that is quite fiddly, or possibly even broken. But after a few plays, gamers quickly realize that Fifth Avenue is a well designed game that needs to be respected. Inside this beautifully packaged game design lies a quality and depth that gamers can only experience with the best games on the market. Fifth Avenue is a gem of a game that all players should give time on their gaming tables.

General Game Info:
Players: 2-4
Ages: 12 and up
Play Time: 60-100 minutes
Game Weight: Medium to Medium Heavy
Game Mechanics: Auction/Bidding, Empire Building
Theme: Building Skyscrapers and Businesses in 1930’s New York

Gamer Suitability:
Casual/New gamer = 3
Moderate Experience = 5
Experienced/Heavy Gamer = 4

Production Value (See Details Below):
Theme = 5
Presentation = 4
Components = 5
Gameplay = 5

Freshness Factor:
Fresh Experience with Every Play: Medium to Medium High
Replay Value Over Time: Medium to Medium High

Other Factors to Consider:
--Fifth Avenue can be a little fiddly to new players. Players should take care not to end the game too soon by avoiding the placement of new businesses early in the game. Players learn this more and more with experience.
--Fifth Avenue is the #9 in the Alea large-sized game series. It fairs quite well with its predecessors.

Overall Score = :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: out of 5

The Details

Theme
In Fifth Avenue, each player takes on the roll of a businessman in 1930’s New York City—building skyscrapers and businesses to earn prestige and prosperity in a city booming with growth. As players earn money to expand their empires, they must be conscientious of the building commissioner. When the building commissioner arrives, players begin an auction for the right to build additional skyscrapers—hopefully winning the most prestigious locations. These skyscrapers will earn players greater prestige and prosperity as the conclusion of the game draws nearer.

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Fifth Avenue effectively accomplishes what many games do not by connecting the theme with gameplay itself. Between auctions, every decision and move is designed to equip players with resources for the auctions. Every auction is designed to gain skyscrapers built in prestigious locations (of course this costs resources). Every skyscraper will earn each player victory points and ultimately victory. Every aspect of Fifth Avenue’s design is interconnected and works quite well thematically. It would be difficult to imagine any other theme working with the design of Fifth Avenue.
(Theme Score: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: )

Presentation
When first picking up Fifth Avenue off the shelf, gamers may notice that it is the #9 game in the large-sized bookshelf games by Alea. As with its predecessors, Fifth Avenue comes in a very well designed, high-quality, cardboard box. The box is of the same type of design as the other games in the series, with beautiful artwork on the cover and sides and with a good picture and game description on the back. Printed on the side, of course, is a big #9 to please gamers who are collecting each game in the series.

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(Notice the #9 on the "spine" of Fifth Avenue)

Inside the box, everything is stored in an adequate, but not ideal, insert. There is a special compartment for the cards and each of the skyscrapers and other game pieces. However, for a box that is designed to stand on end like a book for storage, it could have addressed a few issues. First, the skyscrapers could have come in plastic baggies. Sure they fit into four individual compartments quite nicely without baggies, but when the box is stood on end it is inevitable that some of the skyscrapers will fall out of their compartment. Second, the same is true of the playing cards. The compartments for the cards are just a little bit too large. A slightly smaller compartment would have held the cards in place more effectively. Finally, the other miscellaneous pieces also fall out of the large central compartment quite easily. All of this adds up to one thing—owners should invest in a few baggies to keep the game pieces orderly while the game is on the bookshelf for storage. None of this is a major problem and has no bearing on the game itself. It is just nice for publishers to think of practical issues like neat storage.

All gamers should, however, appreciate the simplicity and layout of the rulebook. Even though the rulebook is quite lengthy for an Alea game (12 pages), it is quite clear and easily understood. Diagrams and pictures are scattered throughout to clarify more difficult concepts. This is very useful for the first time read-through. Also useful is the “review” column which highlights the main points of the rules for gamers who just need a refresher after a hiatus from Fifth Avenue.

Overall, Fifth Avenue is very well presented and should please gamers who seek quality in the games they purchase.
(Presentation Score: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: )

Components
Central to Fifth Avenue is the 2-sided, quad-fold, game board. It is made of high quality cardboard and should easily last a lifetime if cared for properly (avoid drinks at the table). At first glance, both sides of the game board seem identical, but, with closer inspection, it should become clear that there is a slight difference between the two sides. On one side the city blocks each have 5 building plots (this side is for 2 and 3 player games—or 4 player games with higher challenge). The other side is for 4 player games and has six building plots on each city block.

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Also very important are the 72 colored skyscrapers (18 each of red, blue, green, and yellow). These are made of very hard quality plastic. If you should drop one on the floor, be careful not to step on it with bare feet, because you will be in more pain than the skyscraper (Think LEGOs in the dark). The point is, it won’t break.

There are 60 “colored” (yellow, brown, gray, green, purple) bidding cards and 50 “black” (these are wild) bidding cards—all of standard playing card quality. In each “suit” there three different denominations of cards (4,5,6). On each “4” there is also printed three skyscrapers. On each “5” there is also printed two skyscrapers. And on each “6” there is also printed one skyscraper. These skyscraper pictures determine the maximum number of skyscrapers a player may place on a building plot after an auction. By using at least one “6” card, a player may only place one skyscraper. By using at least one “5” card, a player may place up to two skyscrapers. And by using only “4” cards, a player may place up to three skyscrapers.

There are also 36 small cardboard business tiles (9 each of jeweler, boutique, gallery, and perfume). These are made of high quality cardboard, but are very small. So owners should take care not to lose these tiles. These business tiles are used to determine the value of each skyscrapers during scoring. Simply put—more unique businesses next to a skyscraper translate into more victory points.

Next are the 8 hard plastic commissioner pieces—2 figures and 6 markers. These come in 2 colors to represent that there are two unique commissioners.

There are 2 high-quality cardboard “stop markers”.

Finally, there are 4 very useful summary cards made of high quality cardboard. These are useful because on one side they remind players how the commissioners may move. On the other side these cards remind players of the choices that are available on each turn as well as a reminder of how to score skyscrapers during the scoring phase.

Fifth Avenue takes no shortcuts in creating a game with very high quality components. All game makers should take this approach.
(Components Score: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: )

Gameplay
Gameplay begins with one business tile in each of the seven city blocks on the board. Over the course of the game, players will attempt to build skyscrapers and other businesses near these businesses to earn victory points—thus, hoing to win the game.

Each player, on his turn, has four choices on what to do with his turn:

1) Take three skyscrapers—by choosing this option a player takes three skyscrapers from the general supply and places them in his personal supply. Skyscrapers may only be placed onto the game board from a player’s personal supply, so this is often a very important choice to make.

2) Place a business—by choosing this option a player takes a business off of the supply on the game board and places it on any building plot on the board. This does two things. First, it gives the player a chance to increase the value of some skyscrapers. Second, it draws the end of the game nearer.

3) Take a black card and move the commissioner—black cards are treated as wild cards, so they are very valuable in auction. However, by taking a black card, the player must also move a commissioner which brings an auction closer.

4) Score a district—by choosing this option a player may immediately score skyscrapers residing on a city block that currently has a commissioner on it. This is an advantage for players that have more skyscrapers than opponents. It is also important that players avoid moving the commissioner “on” to districts that allow other players to gain an advantage in scoring.

After this first action, a player must then take a second action from the following options:

1) If a player chose option 1, 2, or 3 above, he must take 2 “colored” bidding cards. He may take from any color.

2) If a player chose option 4 above he must take 2 black bidding cards.

Finally, a player must move a commissioner as his third action. This ends a player’s turn.

The engine of the game is fairly straightforward with the following twist—anytime a commissioner moves onto central park at the end of the game board, a series of auctions is triggered. One district at a time, players immediately bid on the right to place a skyscrapers on the districts that the commissioner crossed on his journey to central park. Players bidding the most at each auction may place 1, 2, or 3 skyscrapers in the corresponding district (based on the bidding cards he used).

Finally, players bid for the right to place skyscrapers at Central Park. These skyscrapers only score at the end of the game, but have great potential to score big. It is always worth the effort to get a skyscraper or two at Central Park.

There are, of course, several additional rules that define gameplay, but my goal is to present a general feel of the game. Fifth Avenue is a unique game with a unique auction mechanic. This makes gameplay full of choices and strategy at every turn.
(Gameplay Score: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: )

Closing Comments
Fifth Avenue is an outstanding game with great depth and strategy. Though it can seem a bit fiddly for the beginner, players with experience quickly realize how difficult Fifth Avenue truly is to master. With a little bit of patience and respect during gameplay, all gamers should discover that Fifth Avenue is truly one of the gems of modern board games.

Overall Score = :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: out of 5

Thread: Re: Auction question

Exilas — 2005-09-10T15:37:43+00:00

Well, thanks, I think your answers settle the thing down.

Ciao
Marco

Thread: Re: 2 players?

ropearoni4 — 2005-09-06T07:35:56+00:00

My wife and I had this ever ellusive 3rd player over for a quick game of Fifth Avenue. He only built 3 total skyscrapers, but made it bloody hard for us to keep cards in our hands from one auction to the next. I'm not sure the 3rd player is needed. We bid against each other quite well. If it wasn't for the fact that the other places would not get filled up, we would take Alea out of the picture altogether. I wish it was less than 22 that Alea could bid, because it makes it very hard to bid on those auctions when an 5,6,6 shows up making it an 18 to pass him/her up. After the initial hand, it was very hard to get some cards into your hands for the auctions, because the auctions happened quite frequently. Not sure if it was just our game, but it was one auction after another for quite some time. Overall, this is a different game, but feel samey to others. I'll give it another shot with more players and see how it goes. I liked the Taj Mahal-esque style of play though.

Thread: Re: Auction question

Henry Rhombus — 2005-08-31T08:59:30+00:00

Marco, I play with Phil all the time, and he's never wrong. Well, almost never -- he did insist on playing this one game that we've all vowed never to mention again.

In any case, he's exactly right, and to back him up, here's an excerpt from the English rules that came with my Rio Grande game:

"The first card bid by a player in an auction must always be a colored (not black) card. All further cards bid by the player in the auction (on this turn or subsequent turns) must be either cards of this color or black cards. He can play them in any combination he chooses."

Write back with any other questions as Phil and I are Fifth Avenue experts!

Thread: Re: Auction question

Exilas — 2005-08-31T08:29:24+00:00

Phil,
my doubt was that, in the first round, a player must play ONLY color cards, and NO black cards, that could be added in the following auction rounds.

Are you sure that black cards can be added to color cards in the first action round?

Thanks,
Marco

Thread: Re: Scoring of Central Park with less than 3 shops?

Spielfreak — 2005-08-28T03:39:52+00:00

Central Park is scored based on just the two shops. If they're both the same, then each skyscraper scores 2 pts. If they're different, then each skyscraper scores 3 pts.

:meeple:

Thread: Re: Auction question

Spielfreak — 2005-08-28T03:34:45+00:00

As I understand it, all three are correct. Each player must initially play one or more non-black cards, along with zero or more black cards. Since this is an auction, you generally want to play as small a total as possible so as not to use all of your cards, but there may be times (such as if you don't have many cards and want to bid your highest amount while you can) when bidding a higher total is warranted.

Thread: Scoring of Central Park with less than 3 shops?

Exilas — 2005-08-27T21:53:45+00:00

It's theoretically possible to end the game by closing two quarters with less than three shops in the area below Central Park. Has this ever happened? How would you score Central Park in this case?

Ciao
Marco

Thread: Auction question

Exilas — 2005-08-27T14:21:03+00:00

I'm not sure I understand correctly the rules about playing cards in the first round of an auction.

Let's say player A move the commissioner to the depart zone, and assume he and player B want to enter the auction. Which of the following three is correct?

1.
- A plays one or more cards of a valid color
- B plays one or more cards of a valid color, totalling more than A cards

2.
- A plays one or more cards of a valid color
- B plays one or more cards of a valid color and one or more black cards, totalling more than A cards

3.
- A plays one or more cards of a valid color and one or more black cards
- B plays one or more card of a valid color and one or more black cards, totalling more than A cards

The italian translation of the rules we used seems to imply #1 (and so we played) but the german rules seems to differ a little (at least to me and my poor german).

BTW, I understand that #2 is the right way for the Central Park auction, given that to player A "valid color" means "any color", while to player B it means "the same color A played", right?

Thanks,
Marco

Thread: Re: missing rules pages in book

ropearoni4 — 2005-08-19T13:32:28+00:00

Rio Grande