Game: Daimyo

Thread: Re: Clever and intense: a review of Daimyo

Matthias_K — 2007-12-19T08:52:47+00:00

Thanks for your kind words, Bart.
Too bad you won't like the game, but I'm glad you found out before buying it.

This is only my second review for this site, so it's a work in progress...
I've tried to find a middle ground between a rules heavy review and a review that asssumes you know the rules already.

I don't rate or break down the gameplay because I believe the description should give you an idea if this is a game that will appeal to you personally. I do rate the components and the entertainment value (for instance: replayability), because to me this indicates if the game is worth its price if the gameplay appeals to you.

Thread: Re: Clever and intense: a review of Daimyo

bartman53d — 2007-12-19T07:59:39+00:00

An excellent review Matthias, thank you.
Your description of gameplay is very good. I can tell I will not like this game, even though I enjoy the theme. Any review that can save me from spending what little I have on something I won't really want to play is a good one in my book.

Thread: Clever and intense: a review of Daimyo

Matthias_K — 2007-12-03T12:26:52+00:00

Introduction
Daimyo is a strategic game for 2-4 players simulating a samurai battle in a very abstract manner.

Gameplay
The game board is built from several hexagon tiles called Hans. The lay-out of the board differs according to the number of players. Each player has a home section of 3 Hans in their own colour and places a general (Daimyo) and three soldiers (Bushi) on them.

The goal of the game is to eliminate the Daimyo of an opponent or capture Hans of the opponent(s). To achieve this goal, each player receives a set of action cards. These cards depict an action and are labelled with a character and a number:

A) Bushi movement: move one of your Bushi or a group of your Bushi from a Han to an adjacent Han.
B) Bushi recruitment: add a Bushi from your reserve to the Han where your Daimyo is present.
C) Daimyo movement: move your Daimyo to an adjacent Han.
D) New Han: add a new Han to the game board.
E) Han movement: move an empty Han to another position of the game board.

Every round, each player selects two of his action cards and places them, face down, in front of him. Then all players reveal their selected action cards simultaneously. The action cards are resolved in alphabetical and numerical order, thus ensuring that action A always occurs before action B and card A1 resolves before A2, etc.

After all the cards have been resolved, each player has to give their played action cards to their opponent(s). This rule will make sure that every move you make can be made against you in a later stage of the game and allows for a lot of strategic depth in the game.

Combat occurs when a group of Bushi is moved to a Han which contains Bushi and/ or the Daimyo of an opponent. The rules for combat are very simple: the Bushi of both players are removed in a 1:1 ratio. This means the Bushi that one player has in excess of the other player are the only ones remaining on the game board after combat. A Daimyo also counts as a Bushi in combat, but it is eliminated if it has to be removed from the game board as a result of the combat.

When a player successfully eliminates the Daimyo of another player or occupies a Han of each opponent with a set number of Bushi, he immediately wins the game.

The manual describes a number of advanced rules which can be introduced individually. An example of the advanced rules is the ‘defensive fortifications’ rule that lets your Bushi combat as if they have an additional Bushi when they are placed on one of your own Hans.

The game also comes with a set of special action cards which allow players to perform a unique action (for example: a Ninja attack). This set of action cards is very flavourful and makes the game feel a little less abstract.

Components
The game looks very abstract, but is decorated with a lot of Japanese symbols to enhance the flavour.
The Han tiles are made of thick, sturdy cardboard. The Bushi are represented with simple wooden discs in four different colours. The Daimyo are very nice looking pieces made of coloured wooden cones with a metal samurai head on them. The action cards are of normal quality and illustrated with a basic picture representing the action. The illustration, combined with the character, give you a general idea of the use of the cards in the case of the standard action cards, but you will often need to look up the special action cards in the manual. This manual is very clear, because of the use of illustrations and examples, and explains the game in five languages (English, French, German, Italian and Dutch). The box is much larger then it needs to be for the components, so the initial impression of the game may be disappointing.
Other people have reported that the game is much too expensive for the components, but here in the Netherlands the game can be bought for about 25 EUR, which is a good price for a game like this.

Entertainment
Daimyo is a strategic game and has no luck factor if you use the optional rule of a balanced distribution of the action cards at the start of the game (which I recommend).

The strategy of the game comes from distributing your played action cards among your opponents, because this allows you to control what cards your opponents have access to during the game. However, because of the priority system of the action cards it’s possible you need to rethink the use of your action card because the intended use is no longer optimal. This adds a tactical layer to the game.

Each game lasts between 45-60 minutes and is very tense. Because of the limited manoeuvring space on the game board, almost any mistake is fatal. This is especially noticeable when playing with two players, but it is also a big factor when playing with three or four players, because only one player has to be eliminated to end the game. A three player game almost always ends with two players starting a battle and the third player winning the game by attacking one of the weakened opponents. Although the game is easily taught, it is not a good idea to introduce a new player in a 3 or 4 player game, because the game will end for everyone if they make a mistake.

The optional advanced rules and special action cards allow for many options to enhance and customize gameplay, making this a game that will remain interesting for a long time.

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Horconboy — 2007-01-14T21:13:22+00:00

Blue Daimyo. Close up

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Horconboy — 2007-01-14T21:13:17+00:00

3 players game.

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Horconboy — 2007-01-14T21:02:30+00:00

The Daimyos, with cards and tiles

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Horconboy — 2007-01-14T21:02:02+00:00

3 players game, general view

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Flavius — 2007-01-02T22:58:26+00:00

[Holydays for New Year's Day] What if Godzilla and his friends decides to set rampage in medieval Japan!! ^_^"

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Flavius — 2007-01-02T22:52:36+00:00

[Holydays for New Year's Day] Playing Daimyo with four players. Setting the game.

Thread: Re: US?

Windmilling — 2006-09-12T19:33:11+00:00

I just gave up waiting for a US version of Daimyo. Bought it from a store in Italy.

tim

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lsamadi — 2006-09-07T03:25:33+00:00

The blank Action and Special Action cards included in the deck, which I assume are for replacing lost or damaged cards. The backs are the same.

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lsamadi — 2006-09-06T04:06:59+00:00

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lsamadi — 2006-09-06T04:06:55+00:00

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lsamadi — 2006-09-06T04:06:52+00:00

Thread: Battle Formation of the Daimyo Clarification?

lsamadi — 2006-09-03T05:42:06+00:00

Could someone help me understand how the advanced rule Battle Formation of the Daiymo works and what it is for exactly?

Thread: Re: bushi movement

ScubaPA — 2006-05-23T21:13:08+00:00

I received an e-mail from the game developer himself,Piero Cioni, informing that the first interpretation is indeed correct. Great service!!
This is a good game with very nice components.

Thread: bushi movement

ScubaPA — 2006-05-22T16:20:14+00:00

Can someone help me interpret the bushi movement rule? Does it mean that one or more (or some) bushi from a single hex move to a single adjacent hex or does it mean that one or more (or several) bushi from multiple hexes can all move to a single adjacent hex? I think it's the former but I'm not absolutely certain. Thank you.

Thread: Re: So where (when?) can I buy this game?

cheeseontoast — 2006-05-06T17:02:35+00:00

Just bought my copy from ZonZab.co.uk. Link to product is:

http://www.zonzab.co.uk/acatalog/Daimyo_Board_Game.html

Hope this is of help. Karl

Thread: Re: What's with all the 1's ?

Werbaer — 2006-04-28T14:55:51+00:00

See http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/108354 and http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/871561.

But according to an admin (octavian), these ratings are not included in the game ranking.

Thread: Re: What's with all the 1's ?

spearjr — 2006-04-28T14:27:56+00:00

Sure looks like an attack. Sad.

Thread: What's with all the 1's ?

Moviebuffs — 2006-04-27T13:32:06+00:00

Just looking at the personal comments for this game, and there's a high percentage of 1's.

A lot of the people who rate it one say that it's "too expansive", which seems to be a spelling error that stretches across various countries in Europe!

Also ... one or two of the 1-raters also rate all other Tenki Games 1 as well.

Is there some sort of personal vendetta going on ?

Thread: Re: Daimyo review by Moritz Eggert from Westpark-Gamers, Mun

Eggo — 2006-01-14T15:31:02+00:00

Ugh, 39,90,-EUR is a steep price for a game with so little content in term of components. For that reason you might be disappointed, because when you open the box you will see mostly empty space and cardboard fillers. If you are looking for a "customizable" strategy game with Japanese theme you won't do wrong, though, as the game basically is very sound. But the price tag really surprises me!
Eggo (Moritz)

Thread: Re: The power of the A1 card

gnomehome — 2006-01-13T12:05:31+00:00

I've played only twice and I got hammered each time by the player who played A1/A2 cards in the same turn. I should play mor eto see if this was a fluke or it genuinely is 'the winning strategy'.

Thread: The power of the A1 card

Carver — 2006-01-13T11:36:51+00:00

My meagre experience of playing Daimyo hardly qualifies me to comment. However, it seems to me that by ranking the cards (A1, A2, etc.) it encourages any player being dealt 'A1' to hang on to it until such time as he has got his men in a position to strike against an opposing Daimyo. His top 'A1' card then guarantees him victory. Some games have a rule whereby the weakest card can defeat (or negate) the strongest - the Mouse and the Elephant effect - though admittedly I can't quite see how it could be applied to this game.

Derek

Thread: Re: Daimyo review by Moritz Eggert from Westpark-Gamers, Mun

Dr.Octopus — 2006-01-13T08:45:12+00:00

Moritz,
interesting review! I'm thinking about getting the game, but it's a bit expensive around here (39,90 euro): do you think that, for fun and components, it's worth that money?

Thread: Daimyo review by Moritz Eggert from Westpark-Gamers, Munich

Eggo — 2006-01-12T19:51:21+00:00

Daimyo
By Piero Cioni
TENKIgames

Samurai themed games are a constant staple of boardgames around the world. There is something fascinating about Japanese culture, about it’s vision of stylized beauty embedded in a strict code of honour and obligation.
Daimyo is one of the newest offerings using such a theme, this time by the Italian game company TENKIgames. The first thing one notices when opening the mainly white box is that the game could have been published easily in a box half or even 1/4th the size The couple of hexagon tiles and small cards along with very few wooden pieces don’t really justify a box of this size, especially in an age where even “monster games” like the one’s of Eagle games use relatively small boxes packed to the brim with plastic miniatures. The only plus is that this enables the rule book to be quite large, and in fact – very unusual for the usually awfully translated Italian games – this is an excellent rule book in 5 languages (English, German, French, Italian and Dutch) with great layout and many pictured examples. The German and English translations excellent, and as far as I can tell the other translations are equally well done.
Daimyo, the term for a Japanese “Archduke” so to speak, is at it’s heart an extremely abstracted wargame probably closest to chess, but with the added spice of a very elegant action card system that works really well.
Each player owns a Daimyo figure (the only non-abstract game piece – in fact the small “poeppel” with helm is quite cute) and tries to protect it from being slain. The game board is made up of generic tiles in either neutral colour or a player’s colour. If two players play, probably the “truest” version of the game, the board is tiny, consisting of a diamond with only 9 hexes. With four players this increases to 20 hexes, still not a lot of room to maneuver.
Movement and actions are controlled by playing cards. The clever idea is that all action cards are numbered A-F and 1-8 or 1-4. No number appears twice, so there is definite order to the play of actions. Whoever owns the A1 card knows that this action is first, for example. Each round a maximum of 2 cards are played, a player might act twice in a row or in wide intervals, depending on the card numbers. At the end of a round a clever mechanic now makes the cards you used available for the players left and right of you, as each of them gets one of the cards you played. This makes for interesting decisions, as you basically know that a strong card that you just played might be played soon against you.
These are the actions of the basic cards:
A Move Bushi: Bushi are your warriors represented by disks that appear under your Daimyo. With this action they can be moved as a group.
B Bushi Recruitment: You might have wondered how the Bushi appear on the board. Well, by some magical process they appear UNDER the Daimyo with this card, we won’t go too much into realistic detail how this might work...
C Daimyo move: This moves just the poor Daimyo (basically as weak as a King in chess)
D New Han: With this interesting action you can change the battlefield by adding hexagonal tiles.
E Move Han: With this action you can remove a hex somewhere and place it somewhere else. Han Solo stays put, though, presumably on Tatooine.

Combat is simple and ruthless- simply an exchange of Bushi. If your Daimyo is “exchanged” in this way, the game immediately ends and the player who commited the kill wins. This is of course an ok mechanic in a 2 player game, but in a 4 player game this has the problem of making the first person the winner who can exploit the mistake of another player, and the person doing this exploit will not necessary the best player.

When we played the game at Westpark Gamers we immediately moved on to the advanced rules which add distinct “Special Action Cards” which spice up the game (and also cycle through the players after you played them) and “Mastery” cards, that give each Daimyo an unknown (at least at first to the opponents) special ability. Gamers might want to immediately move on to these spice-adding rules as the basic game might be too abstract and dry for some.

There is nothing that doesn’t work in this game, the rules are elegant and simple and it plays quite quickly in under an hour. I see a certain balancing problem in 3 or 4 player games, though. Usually games like this end in an always similar scenario. A attacks B, which leaves A and B weakened, then C comes in for the kill, attacking either A or B and wins.This comes down to “if you attack or ARE attacked you lose”. Of course one can avoid to attack, but to avoid BEING attacked is not always an option. A winning strategy therefore has to be to avoid at all costs being A or B, but this would end in total stasis. With aggressive players the game ends quickly, mostly with C winning. If everybody waits until they feel sure they can attack with high odds the outcome is still the same, it just takes longer to get there. Or perhaps you will end up with nobody attacking at all and world peace comes along.
As Daimyo is so abstract and simplified this inherent multi-player wargame problem comes to the foreground more than in the more dice and chaos dominated “Risk”-like games, which have exactly the same problem. The action cards and special abilities are therefore a step in the right direction, as they add asymmetrical elements.

All in all Daimyo can be recommended for players into abstract strategy games. Wargamers or historical gamers will find the setting a bit too pristine and dry, althouh the Japanese theme is well realized. Eurogamers will feel at home with the mechanics, but might find the antagonistic game play unattractive. You have to decide yourself if you want to be a Daimyo or not, but the game makes it easy to get into, so you might as well give it a try.

Explaining the rules: Basic game 5 minutes, Advanced games 10-15 minutes
Playing the game: 60 minutes or less
Graphic design: satisfying
Game Box: Too big but posh looking
Printed play help explaining the “Special Action Cards” and Daimyo abilities in 4 copies: sorely missed, you have to refer to the rules all the time, which can become annoying with 4 players.
How the Daimyo creates the Bushi: Let’s not think about it too much....
Rules Layout/Translations: Excellent
Recommended for pure strategy fans, others might want to give it a try first
Things we learned: Han Solo apparently actually means “lonely fiefdom”. What a bummer of a name!

Moritz Eggert, www.westpark-gamers.de

Thread: US?

cscottk — 2005-11-25T16:31:38+00:00

Does anyone plan to publish this in the states?

Thread: [Review] Daimyo

TomVasel — 2005-10-30T13:35:20+00:00

I had never heard of the term "daimyo" as a teenager until I played Samurai Swords, by Milton Bradley, in which they played an important role. My interest with that game led me to read up on the subject, and I read some interesting back stories and novels about daimyo. A game with the same name, Daimyo (Tenki Games, 2005 - Piero Cioni), sounded like an excellent way to capture their essence, and I looked forward to trying it out. After opening the box, I wasn't so sure. The game components were tremendous, but the theme seemed to be almost separate from the game, which looked more abstract.

After playing the game, I say - who cares! This is an excellent game of careful card game management and has the feel of a superbly designed abstract game. When played with the basic game (the advanced version I didn't care so much for), the game becomes one of cat and mouse, where for about forty-five minutes, players "hunt" the daimyos of their opponent. Daimyo reminded me of another abstracted Japanese war game, Tenjo; but while Tenjo was large and awfully clunky, Daimyo is extremely light and elegant. I haven't yet won a game of Daimyo, but I am impressed with the cleverness of its design.

Each player takes a daimyo of their color, along with twelve Bushi - regular troops. A battlefield is constructed of hexagons - the layout differing depending on the number of players (two through four), but each player has three hexes of their own color with the remainder in a neutral color. A pile of neutral "Hans" (hexagons) is placed near the board. Each player places a Bushi warrior on each one of their three hexes, and their daimyo on the hex farthest away from the opponents. The rest of the troops are placed on a player's board that identifies their color. There are piles of "Densho" cards that are split into five different types - each distributed evenly between all the players. The cards (which all have the same backing) form players' starting hands. The first round is ready to begin.

Players each play two cards down in front of themselves, and then reveal them simultaneously. Cards are played in order, alphabetically then numerically. For example, A1 is played, then A6, B3, B4, D5, and E2 - in that order. Each card has a different effect:
- A: Bushi Move: The player moves as many Bushi warriors as they want to an adjacent hexagon. All warriors moving must end up in the same hex.
- B: Bushi Recruitment: The player adds one Bushi to the hex upon which their Daimyo is currently at.
- C: Daimyo Move: The player moves their Daimyo to one adjacent hexagon.
- D: New Han: The player adds a new neutral "Han" (hexagon) to the board, with at least one side adjacent to a current Han.
- E: Han Move: The player can move any Han on the board that has no units on it to another position, as long as they don't split the board and position it to at least one other hex.
When players move Bushi into a space containing enemy units, combat occurs. The player with more Bushi warriors wins and removes both the losing units from the board (returning them to their owner) and an equal number of units from their own force. In battle a Daimyo counts simply as one Bushi warrior.
After all cards have been played, players give each of their discarded cards to their opponent(s) - one to the player on their right, the other to the player on their left. Another round then starts, and play continues until one player's Daimyo is eliminated. AT this point the game ends, and the player who managed to kill an opponent's Daimyo is the winner! The game can also end if a player manages to control one colored hexagon of each opponent with a total of at least three Bushi warriors.

Some comments about the game…

1.) Components: My favorite pieces in the game are the Daimyo pieces, which are metal samurai heads stuck into a colored wooden pawn. They look hilarious and serious all at the same time, and just add a smidgen of theme to a game that really doesn't have much of it. The Bushi warriors are simply large wooden discs and stand out well on the hexes. The hexes are smaller than those found in Settlers of Catan and have nice colored backgrounds with Japanese symbols printed on them. The game may fell abstract, but it certainly looks Oriental. The cards are of high quality (although white borders would have been better than black borders) and show the letter and number of the card quite clearly, as well as a pictorial description of each one. Everything fits easily into a large square box (which is certainly at least three times the size needed to store the game). The game has a great "feel" to it and looks extremely professional.

2.) Rules: The rulebook, which comes in three languages, is the same size as the box and is really well done. Full color pages with absolutely beautiful illustrations and clear explanations of each component and piece are tremendously helpful. The game is actually rather simple, but the rules make sure that no mistakes are easily made. The rules are fairly easy to teach; and even though there are special cards without text, all of them are simple to explain, and there are only five different types. Combat is simple to explain, movement is easy to understand, and the complexity of the game comes from strategy, not the rules.

3.) Advanced Rules: There are two optional rules that I like using - one is that the Han hexagons of a player's color give them a +1 (defensive fortifications), the other is a balanced game start, where players receive exact cards to ensure perfect fairness in the initial setup. However, a set of eight action cards are included that I'm not so fond of. These cards, which are randomly inserted into the setup of the game and are designated by the letter "F", are simply more difficult to work with. Some of them are extremely powerful and end up changing the strategy of the game. For example, one card allows a player to destroy three Bushi warriors in the same territory. This card can greatly affect the game, putting a player into a very poor position. We tried the cards out, but after one play, decided that they unbalanced the game too much. "Mastery" cards are also included, which give each player a special ability. Some of these abilities appear to be unbalanced, although it would take me several more plays to determine that. Either way, I wasn't very impressed by them.

4.) Cards: Knowing which cards to play when is definitely the key to this game. Players must consider what actions they wish to do and what cards their opponents will receive when done. This last bit is especially crucial. If someone is constantly attacking me, should I give them movement cards? If someone is low on men, shouldn't I keep reinforcements cards from them? For me, this was the most clever part of the game - and sometimes the most frustrating. I often thought that I "needed" a certain card and was annoyed that I didn't receive it. At the same time, other players were simply working with the cards they got and strategically feeding me cards that didn't help. The system works excellently; if you want to play that A1 movement card, you're going to have to give it to your opponent.

5.) Players: Because of the card system, I think that I enjoy the four player game the most, although the three player game does work extremely well. The two player game is okay, but the choice of which opponent to give which card to isn't present and for me that's a large draw of the game. The game doesn't really feature player elimination either; since if one player's Daimyo is eliminated, the game immediately ends.

6.) Victory Conditions: Because there are two different victory conditions, the game plays out very well balanced. Players must guard their own Daimyo, but at the same time they must also protect their colored hexes, because a slower, more subtle attack by the enemy can give them the victory.

7.) Hexes: The movement of the hexes (which, by the way, totally disrupts the theme. How were the ancient Japanese able to move entire blocks of land around like that?) is very similar to another game, Trias. It certainly adds a lot of tactical options, as players can force other players to attack them through narrow gaps, or bring an enemy's colored hex right next door to their forces. Players must spread their troops out, or their opponent will move the hexes, putting them in bad positions both offensively and defensively. When it comes to moving the hexes, this is another situation where I prefer the multiplayer game to the two-player game, as the options and results of moving each hex are more intriguing.

8.) Fun Factor: Daimyo is a lot of fun because when a player wins, they know that they've done so because of their own clever playing. With a no-luck combat system (kind of like that of the older game Dune), and cards that all players share to a degree, a sharp player will dominate others. Yes, I've never won a game of Daimyo yet. But after every game, I'm immediately eager to play again, because I want to try another strategy. That's the mark of a good game.

I like Daimyo because it's fast, rewards clever play, and just is a lot of fun to play. It mixes card management with hex movement in ways that combine not to produce a thematic Daimyo battle but more of a very well done abstract strategy game. While the advanced rules don't really raise my enthusiasm, the basic game certainly does, and I expect to be playing this quite a bit this year. In fact, while typing this review, I thought of a new strategy to try out in the next game. So excuse me while I go check it out, playing the game is that much fun.

Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games."
www.tomvasel.com

Thread: Re: So where (when?) can I buy this game?

Imagine — 2005-10-24T19:36:50+00:00

Well, it was available at the Essen fair, where I sat down for a test game. I liked the game mechanics, but was a little disappointed that the game had no theme at all - it is an abstract game that could bear *any* name. That and the hefty price tag kept me from buying it.

I believe it will be available at funagain soon (they pro'lly got cheaper copies on Sunday afternoon, heh)...

Thread: Re: So where (when?) can I buy this game?

violentzen — 2005-10-24T18:29:25+00:00

October is almost gone. Any word?

Thread: Re: So where (when?) can I buy this game?

Luke the Flaming — 2005-05-16T23:46:11+00:00

The game should be available during Essen 2005 (October!).

Thread: Re:So where (when?) can I buy this game?

Imagine — 2005-05-02T13:37:35+00:00

cloquil (#77609),

okay, I did send you an email. Quite a while ago...

Thread: So where (when?) can I buy this game?

Imagine — 2005-01-10T21:04:00+00:00

I've been trying to contact the publisher, but so far no reply.

Is this another phantom game?