Game: Doppelkopf (Double Sheepshead)

Thread: Re: The Avid Card Gamer's Review of Doppelkopf

medievalbanquet — 2008-08-19T02:22:52+00:00

Thanks Michael.

Thread: Re: The Avid Card Gamer's Review of Doppelkopf

CortexBomb — 2008-08-18T15:23:04+00:00

With English rules? Nowhere that I know of. I got my deck from Germany, and though the German decks are sometimes available at US online stores (Fairplay?) they won't make learning the game any easier...if anything it will be more difficult if your group is not used to the German ranking (i.e.: D for Queens, B for Jacks).

The rules are available through the two links on the Doppelkopf entry here. Reading through the two of them should give you enough to get started, then you just have to tailor the extra rules to meet the needs of your group.

I typed up real quick and dirty player aids for my group when we first started playing that lists rank and suit order and another sheet that lists scoring bids, pre-game hand declarations and all of that; and that is probably recommended as well.

Thread: Re: The Avid Card Gamer's Review of Doppelkopf

medievalbanquet — 2008-08-08T03:22:33+00:00

Where can I buy the game in a package with rules, etc? Just to make it easier.

Thread: Re: Doppelkopf from 0 to 60 in an hour!

Jabla — 2008-03-24T10:32:30+00:00

hokuto_su wrote:
I think losing a Dulle to another Dulle does not cost you a point in standard rules.

True so, also double foxes in someone's hand (Aces of diamonds) will not counter Dulles from being highest trumps in normal game. Losing foxes to opponents however will lose point per fox.

Of the other optional elements (house rules or whatever) I've heard is "5 nines" -rule allowing player to force redeal if one has more than 5 nines in hand to begin a round.

Kings solo is odd rule I read about as well, never used that in a game so can't really evaluate the impact. Trivially it would make it more probable, thus easier, to get decent solo hand.

In tournament play, (usual rule option for brettspielwelt) every player MUST play at least one solo in 20 rounds of play. 1st solo will always give player the lead (unless it is blind solo with 2 queens of clubs) regardless of actual turn order. Consecutive solos for same player won't enjoy this advantage and turn order will determine starting player.

If players will not call solo until 20 rounds have been played the players failing to do so will be demonstrated and forced extra solo rounds be played for each demonstrated player.

I would recommend trying the game out with "standard" ruleset or the official tournament ruleset first before adding extra elements as there is complexity enough without additional rules

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jsper — 2007-05-11T18:05:23+00:00

example of b

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jsper — 2007-05-11T17:48:37+00:00

example of queens

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jsper — 2007-05-11T17:17:04+00:00

example of kings

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jsper — 2007-05-11T17:00:25+00:00

spanish edition of fournier

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moxtaveto — 2007-05-04T22:29:12+00:00

older Doppelkopf deck made in the former German Democtratic Republic

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snoozefest — 2007-04-20T17:28:24+00:00

BSW's implementation.

Thread: Re: Doppelkopf from 0 to 60 in an hour!

hokuto_su — 2007-04-01T17:07:59+00:00

I think losing a Dulle to another Dulle does not cost you a point in standard rules.

Thread: Doppelkopf from 0 to 60 in an hour!

topherr — 2007-03-23T19:13:22+00:00

There is already a good review here http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/153494 , so I've tried to focus on strategy elements and not duplicate the rules breakdown too much.

So I had never played Doppelkopf and got a chance to play with 3 players who had played it - and Tichu - quite a bit. I had played a fair amount of Euchre and some Tichu before. I never really got the Tichu bug that makes some of our group want to play Tichu above all else.

What makes DK interesting to people who have played a lot of trick-taking card games?

1) It's a partner game where you sometimes don't know who your partner is until late in the hand.
2) The trumps are varied and counter-intuitive - call is Euchre on steriods.
3) There are some nifty little scoring mechanisms that are each as important as winning the hand itself.

After about 20 minutes of detailed rules (yes, 10 of hearts is high trump, unless someone has both A of diamonds, plus marriage, poverty, & contras, oh my!) we started.

Another angle that seems really unique and interesting to me is not knowing who your partner is, and trying to figure it out from what you see. Some folks don't seem to like DK as much because of the undeniable complexity and rules that are not at all intuitive (yes, you get an extra point is you take the last trick with the Jack of clubs, a middling trump. Why? Why ask why?).

Having your teammate on your right is very nice, more important than other trick-taking games I've played. I think this is because there are so many trump that people often are null even the first time playing a suit. So playing an ace is not safe at all. And with so much trump it's really nice to play last, because otherwise it's very tough to figure out what to play.

I'll share one interesting dilemma which underscores why some of the counter-intuitive DK rules make for good game play. 10's are very weak cards, but are worth 10 points (only Aces are worth more, at 11). I had a reasonably good hand, playing contra, and won a trick with six cards to play. I had 3 non-trump 10's and four various trump (none were highest trump). Kai was, I think, playing against me on my immediate right. So I had a hobson's choice. Play a 10 which may well be taken by the other team for a lot of points or "waste" a middle trump, depleting my trump. I played a 10, and sure enough it was taken by Kai's team.

In retrospect, this was probably a mistake. Because more than half the cards are trump (for those who don't know, the deck is 9 to Ace with two of each card. Trump from high to low are, 10h, Qc, other Queens, Jacks, Adiamonds, Kd, 10d, 9d. Don't think I forgot anything...), low to middle trump aren't worth nearly as much late in a hand as you might expect from other trick-taking games.

My biggest mistake so far? I thought I had 11 trump out of 12 cards (turned out I just had 10) so I decided to go solo. If you play the full complement of hands, 24 I think, then the rules say you must go solo at least once.

I had a good enough hand, but not good enough since I had only 2 of the top 4 trump, not 3 or 4. I got creamed, ended up with like 60 points (I needed 120). So l lost 3 points for not making 120, 1 more for not making 90, 1 for losing an Ace of diamonds, and 3 more for losing the last trick to the Jack of clubs). One of the odd things of DK is that all points at the end of a hand must add up to 0. Usually you only get one point each for your team winning the last hand with the Jc, but since I was alone, I lost 3 and the other 3 guys won one point each. My mistake was taking the 3rd to last trick with what was the highest trump left. I had already lost the hand, but could've guaranteed not losing the extra 3 points if I had held onto high trump.

If I had remembered that I could call "Re" to up the bet before the hand (since I had one of the Qc). With a partner (or at least one less opponent) I would likely have won the hand easily.

So what did I think of DK in the end? I loved it, and am eager to play it again to learn more of the subtleties. I'd put it up there with Mü & More and Flaschenteufeland ahead of Tichu in trick-taking games. The big advantage of Mü & More is that it can scale to 5 or even 6 (if you don't mind a bit of chaos).

One big difference with Mü & More is that while in Mü & More you usually reveal many cards, in DK you often don't even reveal your team. I found the scoring mechanism not just complex, but full of delightful subtlety. For example, the Ad is a middle trump that can lose you a whole point (remember, winning a hand can often only win you one point too) if you lose it to the opposing team. And holding on to a Jc to win the last hand gets you a point. Most interestingly, losing a 10h (usually high trump) to the other 10h loses you a point as well.

Though I am usually not a fan of counter-intuitive complex rules (!), I think it's worth it here. So many card games just don't feel different enough to me, but this really does. And I feel as if the learning curve is steep - and interesting - enough to keep my attention for a long time.

I do want to underscore what the previous reviewer said: 1) Don't play this game with anyone who is not enthusiastic about learning; and 2) It takes a time commitment. But it's worth it.

8.5 out of 10.

Thread: Re: The Avid Card Gamer's Review of Doppelkopf

Beyak — 2007-02-25T23:11:35+00:00

I played this game once a week for over a year with the same group of people, (there were just four of us), and I really have very fond memories of those days. It took a number of plays to get comfortable with the game but once that comfort was established the game became very deep for us.

Excellent review! you described the mechanics much better than I could have.

Thread: The Avid Card Gamer's Review of Doppelkopf

CortexBomb — 2007-02-25T17:59:31+00:00

The Avid Card Gamer's Review of Doppelkopf

Doppelkopf is a traditional German card game played with a double deck ranked Ace to 9. The card play is standard for trick-taking games: one card per trick. In standard games there are 3 normal suits, which are quite short, and a long trump suit which includes all of the Queens and Jacks, as well as the Diamonds suit and the two 10's of Hearts, which are the highest trumps. The goal in the game is to capture more than half of the game points, of which there are 240 in each hand with the point value for each card being the somewhat standard European convention of A=11, 10=10, K/Q/J = 4/3/2. The game points at the end of each hand are tallied, and a team will either gain or lose points depending on that outcome, which is largely dictated by bids made during the course of play (see below). On a minor note, player scores always add up to 0, as the team who wins scores positive points, which are subtracted from the losing team's scores.

Three things make Doppelkopf stand out from the pack:

1) Variable Partnerships. The two players who end up with the Queens of Clubs are partners, which means that though the game is almost always 2 on 2, one generally has a chance to team up with each of the other players over the course of the game.

2) Bidding. The bidding in this game takes place in two different places.

Firstly, before the hand players have to declare whether they are Healthy, which means they want to play a standard game, or Sick, which can take various forms including a call for Marriage (if one player has both the Queens of Clubs, so they can get a partner!), a call of Poverty (for those unfortunates with 3 or fewer trumps), or a Solo game, where 1 person will play against the others and has the ability to change what the trumps are.

Secondly, there is a bidding aspect during the course of play itself. During card play, players are able to make declarations, in essence, adding points to the game which they will gain if they are right, or lose if they fail. The first declaration has to be made by the second card played, and will be either "Re" or "Kontra" depending on whether one has a Queen of Clubs (Re Team) or not (Kontra Team). By making the declaration, a player is not only adding points to the hand, but is also letting their partner know who they are. On subsequent plays, the other team can either respond with their own declaration (adding yet more points to the hand) or the same team can then make cries of "No 90", "No 60", "No 30", or even "Schwarz" (no points). Players can opt not to make declarations during the course of play, but the points they score even if they win will be paltry: 1 for the Re team, or 2 for the Kontra while a simple declaration of Re or Kontra, respectively, will add 2 more points to the hand.

There is an interesting element present in all of this, particularly beyond the Re/Kontra bids, in that winning a hand where you limit the other team to, say, 88 points, will still score your team 1 point for the "No 90" even if you don't bid it during the course of play. But if you DO declare it, ANOTHER point is added to the score, so bidding accurately can make a very appreciable difference in the final score. The nasty part though, is that making "No 90/60/30" declarations means that if the opposition DOES make the 90/60/30, then they have won the hand, because they beat what you declared, which means instead of making points, you are losing them.

Thirdly, there are many minor rules that throw things for a further loop. For instance, the two Aces of Diamonds are called "Foxes" and are the subject of heavy contention. Winning one from an opposing team is worth a game point, so carefully trying to get rid of them can be a major chore. Another rule involves playing the Jack of Clubs (Charlie Miller) the last trick. Doing so and winning is worth a game point, doing so and losing the trick is the loss of one. Another standard side rule is the award of a game point to a team that takes a trick of all Aces and 10's (a Doppelkopf). This is just the standard game. There are dozens of other variants that people like to play with.

Game Length
This will vary considerably based on how many hands you play. The tournament rules in Germany call for 20 hands, plus 4 compulsory solos. I have never had the opportunity to play that long of a game. We generally play 8 or 12 deals, which is about an hour or so, and seems about right for our tastes.

Suitability for:

Casual Gamers: Nil.

Medium Weight Game Fans: Very low.

Heavy Weight Game Fans: High given a "Don't mind randomness inherent to card games" provision.

Note: These ratings presume a standard North American card game playing background. For North Americans the point scheme of this game alone is unfamiliar, and takes some getting used to. The A-10-K ranking system is also unfamiliar to North Americans. I know this game is quite popular in Germany and is played by what most of us would call "Casual gamers". People familiar with stuff like standard Sheepshead, which is apparently popular in the Milwaukee area, would probably also have a fairly easy time transitioning to this game.

Scales
A 4 player only card game.

Replayability
As is standard for card games, it really depends on whether you like it or not. The system does have a lot of variants available, for people who want to keep it fresh.

Aspects to keep in mind:

Dedication Required: This is not the sort of game that you can just casually pull out once in a while. To really understand and enjoy the game, you simply must play it at least a few times in a short time frame so that the ranking and play can become intuitive. If you do not, this game will always be a confusing muddle. There is a LOT to keep track of, and while it can become intuitive given some decication, at first the combination of the bidding systems, the rank ordering, and the special game point rules will throw you for a loop.

Wild and unpredictable: The variable partnership aspect of the game makes this game hum for me, mainly because it can often be difficult figuring out who the heck your partner is. Conversely, it can often be beneficial to conceal yourself as long as possible, depending on the game state.

Do not even think about pulling this out with people who are not gung-ho to try it: Probably the biggest provision. As I said, this game takes dedication to understand for North Americans. You are not likely to win people over who are not interested by confusing them for the hour+ that the first game is going to take. They need to WANT to try it out honestly, and give it a go, because everyone will be reaching for the reference sheets for the first play or two.

My final slant: I like Doppelkopf, I'm still not sure how much yet. My group plays a lot of card games, and this one has made the "We like it enough to play it instead of Tichu occasionally" hurdle and seen some decent table-time lately. The variable partnership aspect of the game makes this one fresh, and I like the fact the game has bidding, as it reminds me vaguely of my Spades days even though the bidding really has no actual similarity in play. If you like heavier card games, this is a game that you should try out at least a couple of times though. I think it will struggle for table time in most groups though, and it probably isn't worth putting together a deck for 90% of the people who frequent this site.

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Boomer — 2006-08-13T23:43:47+00:00

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Keng Ho — 2005-09-28T12:51:53+00:00

Extra cards and back of cards

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Keng Ho — 2005-09-12T15:19:01+00:00

Card faces - there are two of each card in the 48 card deck

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Keng Ho — 2005-09-12T15:18:59+00:00

Doppelkopf deck by Spielkartenfabrik Altenburg