Game: Schildkroetenrennen

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Suzy Sparrow — 2008-11-16T12:37:50+00:00

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Suzy Sparrow — 2008-11-16T12:36:56+00:00

Polish edition

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zara2stra — 2008-11-11T07:31:14+00:00

Dinos flee in panic seeing the stack of giant turtles advance in their direction. (children playing Schildkroetenrennen at my daughters second birthday)

Thread: Re: Another minus card question

russ — 2008-10-28T15:07:45+00:00

I just met Reiner Knizia in Essen and asked him about this. He said that turtles in the start space are always separate, not stacked, and a turtle moving backwards into the start space does not stack onto any turtles there.

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boski Olo — 2008-10-25T18:02:46+00:00

"Pędzące Żółwie" on II Gratislavia

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boski Olo — 2008-10-23T23:05:06+00:00

Gratislavia II

Thread: Re: Another minus card question

russ — 2008-10-18T20:44:12+00:00

We just noticed this ambiguity as well, in the Polish version. The Polish rules also don't clearly state what happens if a turtle moving backwards enters a space with more than one turtle (which could only be the Start space). We were thinking perhaps you pick which turtle you'll stack onto, since the rules do clearly say you should stack onto a turtle if there's one in the space you move to.

That then made us realize that the Polish rules don't even explicitly state that the turtles start separately instead of in one big (random) stack in the Start space!

The English translation in the files section has the sentence "The board is placed in the middle and all 5 wooden turtles are placed individually on the Start space." Does the German version also specify "individually"?

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wiewioora — 2008-10-16T10:47:04+00:00

My grandfather playing Schildkroetenrennen and my brother trying to cheat and watch his cards

Thread: Re: silly fun 1-minute video: the uncomfortable truth

Mr.Baggins — 2008-10-03T23:37:08+00:00

Amazing! Thanks

Thread: Re: silly fun 1-minute video: the uncomfortable truth

Biernath_John — 2008-10-03T21:57:06+00:00

Running turtles are mean creatures

Look what are they doing when you're not looking!

They devour!

They hide things!

They destroy!

They contaminate!

They hate competition!

They delete!

They overuse alcohol!

They want to rule the world!

Be prepared and try not do be beaten!

Thread: Re: silly fun 1-minute video: the uncomfortable truth

1Wif — 2008-09-30T12:29:45+00:00

That was cute. Thanks for sharing.

Thread: silly fun 1-minute video: the uncomfortable truth

russ — 2008-09-30T12:00:49+00:00

I think it makes silly funny sense even if you have no idea what the Polish subtitles say...

Video at http://gamesfanatic.blogspot.com/2008/09/pdzce-wiki-niewygod...

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Jarek PL — 2008-09-27T21:30:43+00:00

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lebigot — 2008-08-11T12:57:35+00:00

Even adults can enjoy this game (as a light filler)

Thread: Re: Variant for more bluffing & more control

smithhemb — 2008-08-02T13:32:02+00:00

Wow, to me, that variation guts the game.

I love that non-optimal choices are imposed upon players. In part, I appreciate that aspect of the game precisely because it does obscure identities (and lots of little kids are terrible bluffers). But it also forces you to think very carefully about when you use cards that aren't helpful to you. One tendency is to avoid them (hoping you'll always draw something better) until you're finally forced to play one, but that approach can "out" your identity early and leave you with a handful of losers by the end of the game when it's important to have the ability to make a final surge.

Thread: Variant for more bluffing & more control

wmshub — 2008-08-01T17:32:24+00:00

One thing that bugs me about this game is the way that you're forced to play a card to get it out of your hand. This makes guessing who is what turtle a lot harder. I came up with a variant:

After you play a card to move a turtle, but before you draw, you discard a card from your hand face up. Then you draw two cards to refill your hand to 5.

This has several effects:

1. Cards that are bad for you can be discarded to get them out of your hand
2. By watching other player's discards, it can be very easy to guess what their turtle is (which means that players who realize this can discard "red herrings")
3. You see twice as many cards, giving you more options on which ones to actually play

2. and 3. together also make it easier to "punish" an opponent by moving their turtle backwards.

I tried this with my daughter and I liked it a lot. I thought it made the game a lot more interesting, especially because after a few moves we both knew what turtle the other had, but then with a little bluffing (discarding a "+" card for my turtle) I was able to confuse my daughter about which turtle I had.

My daughter wasn't quite as happy with it because once she had all good cards and had to discard one. This made her very unhappy. Hopefully she'll be willing to try it again though!

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Jarek PL — 2008-07-23T13:43:36+00:00

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wiewioora — 2008-07-05T08:52:27+00:00

Playing at Schildkroetenrennen at Pionek VII in Glliwice, Poland

Thread: Variant for adults

Pert — 2008-01-03T14:21:27+00:00

We have played this game on 1-31-2007 without children and tried to create a new variant for us to eliminate the random action.
Here is our choice: Couple plays with just one (hidden) turtle against other couple(s) (so 4,6 or 8 players is needed). The turn order of gamers is that members of one couple are sitting "opposite each other".
In this variant of the game is more space for strategy and tactics, and it bears lot of fun!

Thread: Re: Ribbit: Cute frogs + kid-size strategy and bluffing

kat644 — 2007-10-29T15:18:05+00:00

Yes, you're right. The wooden frogs have been recalled. Simply Fun is being great about it, though. They're sending new frogs to people who've ordered it from them (along with a postage-paid envelope to return the "leaded frogs"). And they've listed it as "temporarily out of stock" on their website until they have the new frogs ready to go.

But I'm glad you pointed this out -- I wouldn't advise anyone to pick this up at a thrift shop without contacting Simply Fun for replacement frogs.

Thread: Re: Ribbit: Cute frogs + kid-size strategy and bluffing

metalchorus — 2007-10-29T14:47:04+00:00

Note: There is a recall on some components in this game for excessive levels of lead.

Thread: Ribbit: Cute frogs + kid-size strategy and bluffing

kat644 — 2007-10-29T12:55:20+00:00

A simple, easy-to-learn game that offers kids an opportunity to practice strategy and bluffing, Ribbit is a great game for kids age 4 and up. I've played Ribbit with my nine-year old several times over the last year, and even left it out on the table for him to play with babysitters -- which they gladly took him up on. Cute wooden frogs contribute to the enjoyment of the game.

Ribbit (cornily sub-titled "The Toad-ly Fun Game") is so easy to learn that you and your family can be up and running in less than 10 minutes. One game lasts about 15 minutes, and the game accommodates 2-5 players.

Ribbit's components consist of a gameboard with only 9 spaces, five wooden frogs in different colors (red, yellow, green, blue, purple), five square frog tiles (each corresponding to a colored frog), and 52 frog-movement cards.

Before the game begins, the square frog tiles are shuffled face-down and each player picks one randomly and looks at it, but keeps it hidden from all other players. Whatever frog tile you pick tells you the color frog that you must try to make win the race to the finish line. For example, if you pick the blue frog tile, you'll do everything you can to make the blue frog beat all the other frogs across the board.

All five wooden frogs are lined up at the start line, and the movement cards are now shuffled. Five cards are dealt to each player and the rest of the cards are placed face-down as a draw pile. The youngest player goes first and play will continue clockwise around the table.

On your turn, choose one card from your hand, play it to the discard pile, and move the frog indicated by that card. Then draw a card from the draw pile to bring your hand back to five cards.

Each card has two parts to it: 1) A colored frog, that tells you which frog to move (or a rainbow-colored frog, which lets you move the frog of your choice); and 2) A symbol in the corner which tells you how to move that frog. The symbol might tell you to move the frog forward one space, forward two spaces, or backward one space. There are also special cards that have you move the frog that's currently in last place forward by one or two spaces.

Here's where things get interesting. If a frog moves onto a space that's already occupied by another frog, it is put on top of that frog. For example, if you move the red frog forward two spaces, and the yellow frog is already sitting on that space, just put the red frog on top of the yellow frog. Now, if someone moves the yellow frog, the red frog moves right along with it. It's possible to end up with all the frogs in one big pile on a space, and any time someone moves a frog, all frogs that are sitting on top of it go along for the ride.

Now remember, the cards in your hand will allow you to move various frogs, but you're trying to get one particular frog to the other side of the board first. (Remember that tile you picked before the game began? You want that frog to win.) However, if you make it too obvious which frog you're trying to get to the finish line, other players will start using their "move backward cards" to send that frog in the opposite direction. You have to be tricky and subtle, working to get "your" frog to the finish line without letting on which one that is, until the very end. You can take advantage of stacked frogs to move yours forward without making it obvious. You can bluff by moving your frog backwards once or twice. But in the end, whichever player gets the frog of his or her color (from the tile) across the board to the finish line wins the game.

My son enjoys the sneaky aspect of this game, and I think it has enough light strategy to be enjoyable by people of all ages. Because it plays quickly, you can play one quick round just about any time. There's also a variation for younger children that eliminates the bluffing aspect: players pick the colored frog of their choice, and it's a straight-out race for the finish line.

Overall, Ribbit is a great game for families with young kids. We're looking forward to when our 1-year-old is old enough to join us for a frog race!

Thread: Re: Note -- Do not lick the Toads!

Bankler — 2007-10-27T13:30:17+00:00

kat644 wrote:
I was just coming over here to post the same thing, but you beat me to it. My 9-year-old is in no danger, since he's perfectly content to not lick game components, but clearly, we can't let the 1-year-old walk around with the frogs anymore.

Yes, I think the only danger is for the very very young, and Simpson's fans.

Thread: Re: Note -- Do not lick the Toads!

kat644 — 2007-10-26T23:57:41+00:00

I was just coming over here to post the same thing, but you beat me to it. My 9-year-old is in no danger, since he's perfectly content to not lick game components, but clearly, we can't let the 1-year-old walk around with the frogs anymore.

Thread: Note -- Do not lick the Toads!

Bankler — 2007-10-25T23:01:27+00:00

Just got a letter from SimplyFun saying that their Toads contain lead. Please stop licking immediately!

(I'm not not licking toads...)

SimplyFun offers customers a full refund or replacement toads.

http://www.simplyfun.com/blog/detail.htm?id=1041_0_21_0

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

fofluff — 2007-05-12T10:56:54+00:00

Hi, Sifu! I just received the turtle version from La Valet d'Coeur in Canada:

http://www.levalet.com/ and you have to search by company (Winning Moves).

It is $22.05 Canadian which is about $21 US. My order was (Canadian $):

-La Tempet sur l'Echiquier (Knightmare Chess new French ed) $25.95
-La Course des Tortues (French ed of Schildkroetenrennen) $22.50
-A Dog's Life $20
-Carrousel $12.05
-Ticket to Ride - USA 1920 Expansion $10

Shipping is $5 (if you make a really HUGE order, then shipping may be more, but it is typically a flat rate to USA of $5).

My whole order US dollars was $87 plus $2.61 transaction fee.

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

brafman — 2007-05-04T18:21:55+00:00

I bet the move to frogs was caused by the mechanic of jumping on top of other tokens (stacking). Turtle race evoked for me the tale of the tortoise and the hare, which is nice, but the frog theme isn't a crazy one.

- David

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

Sifu — 2007-05-04T18:05:36+00:00

Maybe so, but I'm going to hunt down the German version, thank-you-very-much.

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

grandslam — 2007-05-04T16:57:47+00:00

OK, I overreacted. Don't avoid this game because it is frogs rather than turtles or pastel rather than primary colors.

It is a great little game and SimplyFun sells Ribbit for $18, which is less than the import price.

The more people who get the game, the better.

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

wmshub — 2007-05-04T16:49:42+00:00

Artworkwise, I think that "Ribbit" looks fine. Yes, brighter colors instead of pastels attract kids more, but for an adult I like the pastels just as much, and I agree that the river and lily pads gives the board more interest than the original.

But the theme change makes no sense! The game is a hilarious race where it seems to take forever just to go a few steps, and your turles wobble back and forth on their way - it reminds me so much of how a real turtle moves. Frogs blast off straight to where they're going.

Very strange!

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

LurkingMeeple — 2007-05-04T16:37:41+00:00

I've never been impressed with Schildkroetenrennen's art. While Ribbit doesn't "wow" me, I think it looks nicer. The board is a lot more interesting, and the pawns appear to feature different patterns, which is an improvement. (It doesn't look like the secret ID tokens got the same treatment.)

However, I don't understand why they changed the theme. Turtles fit perfectly -- slow moving platforms.

Reworked art often gets kicked around on BGG. I suppose it's natural that fans would resist changes to games they've grown fond of.

Thread: Re: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

grandslam — 2007-05-04T16:26:07+00:00

This is just tragic!

The original is one of the five games I always bring to classroom game days.

It's not right without bright primary colors and spirals on the turtle shells . . . not to mention the board.

Please, no more pastels in games for kids. There is a reason Ikea has popular stuff for kids.

Thread: Wow, the Simply Fun edition looks ugly

smithhemb — 2007-05-04T13:16:34+00:00

How could they take a game that started out so cute and mess it up so badly? Couple that with SF's non-retail distribution system and it seems like this was a really bad choice of publisher for the US edition. It's a shame, because it's an excellent game at a reasonable price point in a niche where so many games are just mind-numbing for adults.

I'm kind of surprised, since one of the SF games I own (Walk the Dogs) is really cute and the other (Drive) is at least better than the original (Crazy Chicken) aesthetically.

Thread: Re: Another minus card question

Doomfarer — 2007-04-20T20:40:36+00:00

We let the player moving the stack back decide whether to separate them or to keep them stacked.

So now we have all three variants.

Thread: Re: A Child's First Case of AP

wmshub — 2007-02-06T16:42:14+00:00

BrewB wrote:
The best part is watching your 4 year old inspect their hand and make a choice. You can almost hear the gears spinning inside their heads.Yes, it's a good game for that age in that the strategy is easy enough for them to see that it is there, but hard enough that they have to think about it! I always remind Ella, "Save your best cards for the end," and other than that she plays on her own.

Other games good in the same way I think are Checkers (with handicapping) and Cathedral.

Thread: Re: A Child's First Case of AP

BrewB — 2007-02-06T14:10:28+00:00

Follow up. Well we played last night - and mom played with us too (mom's first game with us). We used five cards (per the rules) each. More cards means more choices. Yet even with five cards in your hand it seems you never have any of 'your' colors. All in all a fun if not sometimes 'frustrating' game.

The best part is watching your 4 year old inspect their hand and make a choice. You can almost hear the gears spinning inside their heads.

Thread: Re: A Child's First Case of AP

BrewB — 2007-02-06T00:21:02+00:00

Now I will have to pull out Shildkroetenrennen tonight to play with my 4 year old daughter...we have had a steady diet of Gulo Gulo and Viva Topo and Junior Labrynth for weeks now! Damn the AP - it's time to shake things up!

Thread: Re: A Child's First Case of AP

Larry Welborn — 2007-02-05T20:53:50+00:00

Nice story. It is always fun and interesting to watch your children "get it" when playing games.

Thread: A Child's First Case of AP

wmshub — 2007-02-05T18:36:43+00:00

Yesterday I was playing Schildkroetenrennen/Turtle Race with my 4 year old daughter Ella. As I do sometimes, I "accidentally" gasped in horror when she moved red turtle back, letting her know that I was red. She laughed at my "mistake" and was very happy to know which turtle needs to be punished for the rest of the race!

But despite her best efforts, we got to the end of the game with all five turtles in a giant stack, red on top, two spaces from victory. It was Ella's turn. Thinking it might help her learn to think strategically, I pointed out, "If you move any turtle forwards one space, my red will go forward too. Then if I have a red or rainbow card, I'll win. You need to find a move that will move red backwards instead."

She caught on quickly, playing a minus card. I answered with a matching forward card. Then she moved minus again. Me forwards again.

Now, for the first time in her life, Ella suffer from the dreaded analysis paralysis. She sat and stared at her cards. She stared at the board. She stared at her cards some more. She made comments about how she didn't know which card to play. I kept saying things like, "just move, don't worry, we can play again if the game ends right after." But she wouldn't do it! Finally she put all her cards down face up, and I could see that they were all single-forward cards. Every single possible play of hers would give me an easy win, but she refused to accept it and for several minutes kept studying the board and the cards, looking for a way to avoid this!

In a way, I'm impressed that her attention span was long enough to let her get AP. On the other hand, I wish she had seen that all her moves were about equal, so it was best to just move and get it over with! And I'm really worried that she'll get AP from now on whenever she's in a bad situation. We'll have to wait and see.

Thread: Re: Another minus card question

tbraut — 2006-10-01T22:09:23+00:00

As you say it is not stated in the rule and we actually do it opposite of you. When a stack is moved back to the start field we do separate them.

Thread: Re: Another minus card question

Starsunsky — 2006-09-26T16:24:16+00:00

ef__ wrote:
After a turtle stack moved back from the first field to the start field by minus card, have to I separate them or no?

That is not explained clearly in the rule. When the turtle stack moved back to the start field, I play it without separating the turtles nor stacking in on any of the remaining turtles at the start field.

Thread: Another minus card question

ef__ — 2006-09-26T06:23:31+00:00

After a turtle stack moved back from the first field to the start field by minus card, have to I separate them or no?

Thread: Re: Question about minus cards

Starsunsky — 2005-12-30T16:57:46+00:00

According to the rules, minus card cannot be played on a turtle that is on the start field. Nevertheless, the rules do not specify the extreme case that when a player has a handful of minus cards and all turtles are on the start field. In case, we played that the player had to discard a minus card and draw one from the deck.

Hope this helps.

Star

Thread: Baby's First Knizia?

smithhemb — 2005-09-08T17:30:20+00:00

Schildkroeten Rennen (Turtle Race) is a simple racing game rendered interesting by two features. First, players know the color of their own turtle but they do not know which colors belong to the other players and which are dummies. Throughout the course of the game, each player may move turtles of any color. Secondly, the turtles don't always move independently. When multiple turtles occupy the same spot, they are stacked. And when a turtle moves from that spot, all the turtles on top move with it. Those below it are left behind.

Movement is card-driven and each player always has five cards to choose from. All cards designate the direction and distance of movement (one or two spaces forward, or one space back) and most designate which color turtle will be moving. But there are also rainbow-colored wild cards that let a player choose which turtle to move and arrow cards which move the last turtle forward, but allow players a bit of choice in situations where there's a tie for last.

Taken together, these features transform your basic kid-oriented draw-and-move game into a quick and fun exercise in bluffing, deduction, and calculated risk-taking. What makes this game so exceptional is that it has found a simple way around the problem that plagues bluffing games for little kids. Often, kids are just way too obvious when they try to bluff. So in a game like Top Secret Spies or Spy Alley, you pretty quickly figure out who's who. But here there's some structural ambiguity built into the system. On any given move, there are at least 3 possible (good) reasons that player X is moving pawn A forward: (1) pawn A belongs to player X; (2) some pawn on top of A belongs to X; and (3) X does not have any cards that enable her to advance her own pawn and she believes that moving A is the least dangerous option available to her. Similarly, backwards movement of one's own pawn can often be a good strategy if you have no forward movement cards in your own color but a handful of arrow cards or cards of the same color as the turtle behind you. Once you hop on top of it, its forward motion advances your own turtle. These sorts of considerations make Schildkroeten Rennen a fairly subtle but still quite accessible game -- and a great choice for mixed-age groups. (Teach the grandparents!)

Schildkroeten Rennen is described as a game for 2-5 players aged 6 and up. We borrowed a local 5 year old (son of non-gamers) and he played well, so you might try it on younger kids, but it's definitely not a first game (unless the littlest player is teamed with a grown-up). I've only played with 2 or 3 players and both worked well. I'm skeptical of playing with 5 because you'd lose the dummy turtles which encourage more risk-taking (and thus provide for funnier games/table talk when someone incorrectly deduces who is who and keeps sending a dummy turtle backward while hoping to ride to victory on the back of the turtle that actually belongs to the opponent she thought she was targeting.) Playing time is estimated at 20 minutes and I think that's been close to our experience. But be prepared for instant rematches. Judging from my husband's delight in this game, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked well as a filler for casual-gamer adults.

Currently, this game is a German imprint only. I've posted an English rules translation here and don't know if there are translations for other languages available elsewhere. All components are language-independent. In the US, fairplaygames.com seems to be the only online retailer to stock it. But I'm told that Knizia has just sold the American publication rights and that there should be an English language version out in the next year.

Thread: Question about minus cards

smithhemb — 2005-08-26T14:39:08+00:00

I've now been asked this twice -- can a minus card be used on a turtle who is on the starting space? And, if so, what would be its effect?

My instinct says no, but my German is good enough to find textual evidence to back that instinct up. My logic was that you don't want to be forcing turtles out of the game because it would mess with the secret identity aspect (not to mention eliminate a player from the game at the start.) But then it was suggested that the minus might be used merely to disaggregate a turtle stack (that had formed on the first square of the board but had been forced back).

Any insight?