Game: Oriente

Thread: Re: Need help with understanding how the treasure/point cards are integrated into the deck

Schopfenhoffen — 2008-10-03T11:21:35+00:00

I confirm.
Thanks for playing Oriente.
(The designer)

Thread: Re: Pass

rgmnetid — 2008-09-27T17:19:23+00:00

Right. If you pass or privilege is invoked against you, you keep it.

You lose it in one of two ways:

1) Successfully completing your own action, which includes:
* attacking
* using an ability

2) Voluntarily joining the action of another, which includes:
* becoming an ally in an attack, whether for attacker or defender
* joining a revolution that was begun by another farmer

Thread: Pass

GeoMan — 2008-09-27T16:00:06+00:00

If you Pass you don't lose your Action disk, right?

Thread: Re: Need help with understanding how the treasure/point cards are integrated into the deck

Malachi — 2008-03-01T20:04:15+00:00

You give each player a random treasure card at the start of the game and it goes face up in their treasure pile.

The rest are returned to the box.

When stealing a card from someone else, the treasure cards are included in the mix, so the backs do matter. The designer has said somewhere (I believe in these forums) that this is intentional because it changes the risk/reward for picking one back type over the other, given the known mix of values.

Thread: Re: Need help with understanding how the treasure/point cards are integrated into the deck

Megasabin — 2008-03-01T16:40:38+00:00

But if they are kept separate from the rest of the game and just choesn at the beginning of the game, wouldn't they be isolated from the rest of their cards, so it doesn't matter if their card backs are different?

Thread: Re: Need help with understanding how the treasure/point cards are integrated into the deck

DaJackel — 2008-03-01T14:07:13+00:00

I believe they are just used at the very start of the game, one for each player to seed some points, the rest removed from the game.

It's annoying though because the backs of these cards are different from the rest, so when choosing a 'random' card you need to do it under the table or something.

Thread: Need help with understanding how the treasure/point cards are integrated into the deck

Megasabin — 2008-03-01T07:16:43+00:00

We tried to play this tonight, but we could not figure out where the treasure cards go or what you do with them. Do you mix them in with the deck or keep them separate? Do you use them or leaders for round prizes or both?

I know people start with treasure, but do you just do that and then remove the rest of it from the game? Or do the remaining treasures get shuffled into the deck

If they are mixed in and someone has to draw a new leader from the top of the deck, but a treasure in on the top of the deck what do they do?

We understand how leaders work as points, with their value being the amount of points, but we just don't understand how the point/treasure cards work at all.

They never ever mention these cards explicitly in the rules, which is annoying.

If someone can just explain everything and anything about these cards and all the ways they should be used in the game that would be great.

Thanks

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jsper — 2008-01-16T06:08:02+00:00

Side of the box

Thread: Re: Couple of questions (and first impressions!)

Mike A — 2007-11-07T02:26:22+00:00

Yes to all your questions.

Really. As I understand it, they are all yes.

Thread: Couple of questions (and first impressions!)

BrenoK — 2007-11-06T22:17:11+00:00

Is the Soryo's special power really that weak? I mean, just adding the destiny prize to your point stack seems pretty weak, since you get it if you complete your action and there aren't that many cards that can call a privilege on you... You can spend your action disk attacking someone; if you succeed, you get your opponent's card AND the prize card. Maybe it's a "play it safe" move, since you don't get the chance to lose your character card. Is this correct?

Can Nofus make a revolution without any pawns in the square? Say there are four nofus in the table, can they make a revolution with the strength of four?

It seems a little unfair to have some players spend their turns putting those yellow pawns in the square when the revolution may take a while to come by... A player that has just received a nofu card might really profit from other people's hard work. Say two nofu players keep moving those yellow pawns in the square, and near the very end of the turn a Daimyo loses a battle and receives a nofu card. He's the last one to act in the round and declares a revolution with the yellow pawns the other players spent their action disks to move...

Also: during an attack, only the player being attacked and the player attacking can lose their character cards, right?
Example:A attacks B with the help of C. B gets the help of D and beats A+C. Only A loses his character card to B, right? (C just loses his action disk). Is this correct?

Impressions after my first game: A nice 7. It's over a little too quickly, though. The players were just getting the hang of it when the Geisha turned up. Next time I'll only put one card under the 5-cards-that-have-a-geisha-in-it.

Luck of the draw is definitely a factor here, but it really is fun. Takes a while to get the hang of it, but it's actually a very simple game. I'm looking forward to getting to know this game a little better (not easy getting 8 people in our gaming reunions, though).

Thread: Re: Lemme get this straight...

quozl — 2007-10-17T17:20:03+00:00

BrenoK wrote:
This is mainly a negotiation game, right? I've read the rules and it seems that the heart of the game is negotiating your points with other players in order to get more points from other sources, is that correct?

I mean, player A attacks player B in order to get the points from B's character card. Player A and B then try to get help from other players by negotiating the points they already have. Players that help directly (adding the points in their character's card in one of the sides of the battle) lose their action for that turn (their action that turn will have been getting points from A or B through helping, right?). Is that correct?

In the beginning I don't see much negotiation, since the players don't have that many points to negotiate between them... or is there a lot of switching of the money cards the players get when the game starts?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

BrenoK wrote:
Anyway, what I want to know is the overall flow of the game, common questions the game might raise in its first play and all.

(Oh, and I've read the FAQ. It says it's a good idea to get into deals in which you don't lose your action chip: since helping directly costs you the action chip, what kind of deal would not cost you that chip?).

It's mostly just very different than most games so people will have a little trouble wrapping their minds around the rules. I suggest showing lots of examples before play starts.

Anything is open to negotiation including what you will do and won't do so everyone can be very creative in what they will negotiate. Many things can come up that don't use action chips.

Thread: Lemme get this straight...

BrenoK — 2007-10-17T14:33:11+00:00

It seems that most of the negative comments on this game have to do with the rules and just "not getting the game". Since my group tends to not give a second chance to games that were gave us a lousy experience, so I want to get it straight before I give it a try.

This is mainly a negotiation game, right? I've read the rules and it seems that the heart of the game is negotiating your points with other players in order to get more points from other sources, is that correct?

I mean, player A attacks player B in order to get the points from B's character card. Player A and B then try to get help from other players by negotiating the points they already have. Players that help directly (adding the points in their character's card in one of the sides of the battle) lose their action for that turn (their action that turn will have been getting points from A or B through helping, right?). Is that correct?

In the beginning I don't see much negotiation, since the players don't have that many points to negotiate between them... or is there a lot of switching of the money cards the players get when the game starts?

Anyway, what I want to know is the overall flow of the game, common questions the game might raise in its first play and all.

(Oh, and I've read the FAQ. It says it's a good idea to get into deals in which you don't lose your action chip: since helping directly costs you the action chip, what kind of deal would not cost you that chip?).

Thread: An interesting character game

mpetty31 — 2007-10-14T14:08:48+00:00

I wanted to try this game for a long time and when Funagain was blowing it out for only $4 I was glad to take the opportunity.

Comments and reviews are pretty much right on the money. It's good if you're willing to work at it. The written rules are pretty bad. I read them before buying it and thought I understood it very well. Once you get playing, though, you'll see all the questions that can arise.

I read the questions and answers here as well as the FAQ and after four games I think we're finally playing right! It's been a fun experience exploring the possibilities. The more negotiating comes into our games the better it gets.

We played last night with five players: Kendra, Greg, William, Jason and me. Only Kendra and I had played before.

As usual, I taught the game by giving a broad overview then we jumped in. There were questions as to why a player would ever do such and such an action, since I didn't give enough detail to see the long term. They were patient, though, and it built to a good climax.

Greg quickly showed himself to be a worthy opponent as he jumped up to 17 points and took the lead after pulling off a revolution alone. I'm not sure why we let him get away with that. William and Jason were trying to figure out the game and they made some less than optimal choices with their characters. Most attacks took place between me, Kendra, and Greg with us buying some support from the other two from time to time.

In the end, Greg pulled off a win by points and with the three Ninja cards in his prize stack. This is pretty typical for Greg, even when he's just learning a game. I was in a close second for points.

All in all, we saw almost every character ability at least once and the game's balance is becoming clear. There's still a lot I want to explore here and since I love negotiation games, that aspect promises even more fun in future games.

Thread: Re: Difficult to teach, yet quite rewarding

Schopfenhoffen — 2007-06-15T13:03:38+00:00

Thanks!

Good review!

Sono commosso!!

Luca

Thread: Re: Difficult to teach, yet quite rewarding

Castef — 2007-05-29T13:00:30+00:00

Cheesechick wrote:
Great review! Glad to see more reviews for Oriente... since it's so unique, I imagine it's a pretty difficult game to write about.

Yes, very difficult to write about it.

Speaking with the Author, Luca Coppola, it resulted that an expansion was under study... let's see if it will be ever released. Could be interesting.

I find this game gets easier to teach once you've played a full game or so. All the thematic terms used in the rules made things sound tougher than they ought to have on our first go, but now when we teach people we can explain things pretty quickly as we go along. The player aids on BGG really help with this, though.

Yes, I completely agree.

Thread: Re: Difficult to teach, yet quite rewarding

Cheesechick — 2007-05-26T00:36:47+00:00

Great review! Glad to see more reviews for Oriente... since it's so unique, I imagine it's a pretty difficult game to write about.

I find this game gets easier to teach once you've played a full game or so. All the thematic terms used in the rules made things sound tougher than they ought to have on our first go, but now when we teach people we can explain things pretty quickly as we go along. The player aids on BGG really help with this, though.

Thread: Difficult to teach, yet quite rewarding

Castef — 2007-05-25T19:31:27+00:00

Of all the small-box card games I've bought and tried, Oriente is surely one of the weirdest. It is difficult to compare it to any other game, as it is quite unique in both rules and target.

Basically, it is a game for a large number of players. My recomendation is to play it with at least 6 players, although it really shines with 8 and more players.

Players try to gain points by killing other player's characters and robbing them point-cards. Each player is randomly assigned a starting treasure in coins and a role. Each role has a different value and its own special power. In every round each player has got a single action and tries to use it to kill another player by attacking him or, alternatively, to use a special power. The gimmick of the game is that the characters represent a japan feudal hierarchy, starting from the powerful shogun (only one) and coming all the way down to the peasants: the higher the rank, the higher the priority players can execute their actions. So, if a peasant wants to execute his action, all the higher rank players may decide to stop him and play first. The peasant does NOT lose his right to move: simply, he will use his action later, when higher rank players do not want to interfere or when every other player already used his action.

Special abilities comes in play to spice up things. For instance, the Samurai gains more power in battles, the daimyo may try to become Shogun and so on. Interesting, all the peasants may decide to group and make a revolution, robbing all the other players: this option is really nice, as introduces in the game a large amount of negotiation between players. Also, players may unite against other ones in battles, so short-lived alliances may happen during the game, with revenges and so on. When a player's character is killer, it is immediately replaced with a new one. This allows the game balance to change constantly.

Also, apart from the scoring system, Oriente includes a second victory condition related to collecting three Ninja cards (let's be honest: no game can be bad if it contains ninja cards... )

Basically, Oriente contains one huge flaw: the rule set. It is not badly writter. It is only difficult to understand and teach. When you fully realize how easy the game is to be played, then games flows with no problems at all. The difficult part is to teach it properly to a large group of players.

Cards comes with good artwork and are quite sturdy: Da Vinci is a guarantee when it comes to game components. Also, the game is totally language-independent and rules come in italian and english (Da Vinci edition). It won the "Best new game" award in the Lucca convetion, in 2005.

Scoring time! Well, the game deserves six ninjas out of ten if you play it with less than seven players. Then the score goes up to seven ninjas out of ten if you play with 7-10 players and could easily reach eight ninjas out of ten if the players like the weird rules and start acting properly, adding some good role-play to the game.

Bottom Line:It is difficult to find a card game which works properly with large groups: Oriente is one of these games. It is cheap too, so if you're looking for a strange, yet interesting game for large groups look no furter and give it a try. It may surprise you (and you group)

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BaSL — 2007-04-13T08:19:51+00:00

Cards: Geisha - Summary card - Workshop

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BaSL — 2007-04-13T08:18:54+00:00

Cards front & back: Treasure Cards

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BaSL — 2007-04-13T08:18:01+00:00

Cards: Lords of Oriente

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BaSL — 2007-04-13T08:17:12+00:00

Cards front & back: Lords of Oriente

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BaSL — 2007-04-13T08:16:08+00:00

Back of box

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valar12 — 2007-04-11T04:44:53+00:00

Akindo Cards

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valar12 — 2007-04-05T04:14:02+00:00

Oriente Components

Thread: Re: 3 questions: Stating prize, Daimyo and Ninja

Schopfenhoffen — 2006-09-08T01:11:26+00:00

a) At the start of the game each player gets a Treasure card at random. Is this right? What does this represents? The random
family fortune each character starts with?

Right.

(I think the game design is excelent but I'd love some "flavor" text explaining what
the rules try to evocate. For example, why the lord beated by a sammuray becomes the lord who helped in the samuray army?).

If the lord was beated very hard by "the lord who helped in the samuray army" the first lord has to live a better life!

Ciao

Thread: Re: 3 questions: Stating prize, Daimyo and Ninja

gonso75 — 2006-08-08T12:43:35+00:00

Thanks a lot!

Thread: Re: 3 questions: Stating prize, Daimyo and Ninja

Great Dane — 2006-08-08T08:11:15+00:00

gonso75 wrote:

I cannot answer question a) as I don't know why they are fighting each other in the first place...

b) Daimyo (Annuity): It says that it may switch places with the Shogun even if the Shogun is "on the prize stack of any
player". How can this be? Will I became the Shogun and give my Daimyo card as a prize in return?

If you choose to swap cards then you will take the Shogun and give Daimyo in return. Both cards will end up in the same place where the other was.

The Shogun may be defeated in battle and thus end up a prize stack. See the example under "1. Attacking another Lord".

c) Can the ninja kill (assasin) the shogun? This means that if you are the ninja your aim is to lay low until every other player has played his disk and then atack the hiest in rank to get the prize (his lord in points), right?

Yes, the Ninja can kill anyone except another face-up Ninja.
correct.

Thread: 3 questions: Stating prize, Daimyo and Ninja

gonso75 — 2006-08-08T05:02:38+00:00

Hi

I've just bought the game and read through the rules and faqs and threads andwhatnot, but I still have a couple of questions:

a) At the start of the game each player gets a Treasure card at random. Is this right? What does this represents? The random
family fortune each character starts with? (I think the game design is excelent but I'd love some "flavor" text explaining what
the rules try to evocate. For example, why the lord beated by a sammuray becomes the lord who helped in the samuray army?).

b) Daimyo (Annuity): It says that it may switch places with the Shogun even if the Shogun is "on the prize stack of any
player". How can this be? Will I became the Shogun and give my Daimyo card as a prize in return?

c) Can the ninja kill (assasin) the shogun? This means that if you are the ninja your aim is to lay low until every other player has played his disk and then atack the hiest in rank to get the prize (his lord in points), right?

Thanks

Gonso

Thread: Re: Two questions..

Schopfenhoffen — 2006-06-24T23:00:40+00:00

Dear Rusty,
I'm proud to give you:

5 star for the reply.

Good game!

Thread: Re: Two questions..

kuhrusty — 2006-06-12T11:33:20+00:00

riledguy wrote:
First: If you attack someone and lose (either you attack them with their card face down or they get help in defending) do they get to take your character card having won on defense?
Yeah, I think this bit: "If you are the winner in a battle, you capture your opponent's lord (but not the lords who agreed to help him!) and add it to your prize stack" applies regardless of whether you were the attacker or the defender.

riledguy wrote:
Second: When you call privilage over someone else. Can someone then call privilage over you and so on? Provided of course they have a higher rank character.
Yes; see the last paragraph under "Call for privilege."

Thread: Two questions..

riledguy — 2006-06-12T05:10:30+00:00

After getting 1 and a half games under my belt I find myself very much wanting to play this game more. I do have a few questions that I am sure are easily answered by folks.

First: If you attack someone and lose (either you attack them with their card face down or they get help in defending) do they get to take your character card having won on defense?

Second: When you call privilage over someone else. Can someone then call privilage over you and so on? Provided of course they have a higher rank character.

Thread: Re: 3 ninjas

Schopfenhoffen — 2006-02-01T00:53:42+00:00

Clap! Clap!
You are Right!!

Luca Coppola

Thread: Re: 3 ninjas

juuzzom — 2006-01-26T16:16:56+00:00

benwang wrote:

No, if you take the third ninja, other people can steal you it until the end of the season.

That means having all Ninjas in your prize stack doesn't resolve end of the season. The game continues normally until the end of season and a plyer controlling Akindo, for example, may have luck in getting a Ninja from you as random card in a trade. But if the season ends and you still have all the Ninjas, you're the winner.

Thread: Re: 3 ninjas

benwang — 2006-01-23T04:07:43+00:00

I emailed the designer. Below is his replay.
-----------
No, if you take the third ninja, other people can steal you it until the end of the season.
---------
I am more confused now.

Thread: Re: 3 ninjas

benwang — 2006-01-23T04:07:42+00:00

I emailed the designer. Below is his replay.
-----------
No, if you take the third ninja, other people can steal you it until the end of the season.
---------
I am more confused now.

Thread: Re: 3 ninjas

juuzzom — 2006-01-19T21:25:19+00:00

As I read the rules, drawing Geisha immediately ends the game. The rules don't seem to mention anything about this being the same as the ending of the current season. Therefore, it seems to me, that drawing Geisha sort of overrides the season ending which leads to the Special victory's condition to never resolve.

Any other considerations? Or knowledge perhaps?

Thread: 3 ninjas

benwang — 2006-01-19T20:36:46+00:00

If you own 3 ninjas and some one ends the game before the season ends, do u still win ?

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phibbi — 2006-01-05T22:13:09+00:00

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phibbi — 2006-01-05T22:13:09+00:00

Thread: Re: If a Samurai gets defeated, which lord does he become?

Schopfenhoffen — 2005-12-10T17:53:28+00:00

Ok,
when a samurai lose a conflict, his added card goes discarded under the deck. If the card discarded is a Ninja, this card goes to the winner of the confilct.

> since I was the Samurai, I got to turn over the top card of the deck
> to help me in the battle. I turned over a Ninja which, having an
> attack value of zero, didn't help me win so the attacker won the
> battle and put my lord in his prize stack. Here is my question: How do
> I replace my lord and where is the Ninja supposed to go?

you normally replace your lord from the top of the deck.

You can read this in the faqs (point 8) : http://www.davincigames.it/download/oriente_english_faq.zip

«No, he may only choose among the cards revealed by the WINNING Samurai(s).»

«Where is the Ninja supposed to go?»
To the winner of the conflict.
you can see the point 11 of the official faqs (above)

> The reason this detail was so important was because if I (the losing
> lord) got the Ninja, game-play would resume, but if the winning lord
> got the Ninja, he would then have three Ninjas in his prize stack and
> automatically win the game.

Attention!!
If you refer to the Oriente quick reference: http://www.bggfiles.com/viewfile.php3?fileid=10334
it's unofficial and it is not really exact in many points.
You win if at the end of a season you have all three ninjas. Not imediatly
Please refer to the point 6 of the above faqs.

Thanks to playing Oriente!
I'm here for you.

Luca Coppola

Thread: If a Samurai gets defeated, which lord does he become?

Fantomius — 2005-12-07T15:25:40+00:00

I played Oriente for the first time yesterday, and we encountered a question regarding the use of the Samurai.

Here was the situation:

I was a Samurai and was being attacked by a higher-value card (it might have been a Shogun, but I can't remember for sure). Neither of us recruited any other players to help us in battle.

However, since I was the Samurai, I got to turn over the top card of the deck to help me in the battle. I turned over a Ninja which, having an attack value of zero, didn't help me win so the attacker won the battle and put my lord in his prize stack.

Here is my question:

How do I replace my lord and where is the Ninja supposed to go?

I would think that I get to keep the Ninja as my new lord, but the rules aren't very clear on this. The rules say:

During a battle, after helpers have chosen sides, the Samurai turns over top card of the deck, and adds that value to his strength. If he defeats another lord, that player takes the turned-over card as his replacement;
In our case, however, the Samurai didn't defeat another lord -- he was the one who was defeated! The rules don't mention what to do if the Samurai is defeated. Does a defeated Samurai still take the turned-over card as his replacement?

If he does, then that would mean that I would become the Ninja, right?

But if he doesn't, then the Ninja goes into the winner's prize stack, correct? After all, the rules state:

If any Ninja would go to the bottom of the deck, the player who won the battle adds them to his prize stack instead.
(I take this to mean that Ninjas are never discarded (that is, they never go to the bottom of the deck), so that if any helpers are used in a battle, one gets to be a replacement lord, any Ninjas left over are put in the winner's prize stack, and the rest are discarded.)

So if a defeated Samurai does not take the turned-over card as his replacement, I would suppose that he takes the top card of the deck as his replacement instead.

I attempted reading the Italian rules:

Quando un abitante è sconfitto, diviene l'abitante girato dal Samurai;
Assuming that "abitante" means "lord," I think it says: When a lord is defeated, he becomes the lord that was turned over by the Samurai. According to these rules, it doesn't seem to matter which lord wins or loses; the losing lord still gets the turned-over card as his replacement.

Let me know if I'm understanding these rules incorrectly or not; this particular hang-up froze the game for a while yesterday as we tried to find the answer. The reason this detail was so important was because if I (the losing lord) got the Ninja, game-play would resume, but if the winning lord got the Ninja, he would then have three Ninjas in his prize stack and automatically win the game.

Thank-you for any help in interpreting the rules.

Thread: Re: Oriente Review (My first review)

kiwifirst — 2005-10-10T05:18:06+00:00

Nice review, just read the rules and felt a little overwhelmed about trying to teach it, especially to a big group, but your review makes it sound like the type of game where just getting in and playing it is more beneficial than re-reading the rules 20 times. Thanks.

Thread: Re: Oriente Review (My first review)

hobbes2888 — 2005-09-02T21:45:17+00:00

olav.mueller wrote:
Thanks, an excellent first review.

One question remains for me: Does the game scale well for the 4 to 12 players?

Hi there,

I wouldn't mind hearing other people's feedback on this - I thought it did scale quite well. It's a pretty different game depending on the number of people.

With less people (4-6), it's a bit more strategic, and more about timing, because you need to decide when is best to reveal yourself as there are not that many choices for other people to attack. It was also harder to make deals because sometimes even with others' help, it wasn't enough to defeat a high strength character, or there just weren't enough people to help you out.

With more people (9-12), however, the negotiation aspect comes definitely more into play, who you can recruit and such, but early on in the game, you don't have much to offer in terms of trading, so the first few rounds would take longer (as each character would want to perform their own actions, as opposed to using up their actions joining in with another fight) thus leading to a bit of downtime. However, once more people get treasure cards, better deals can be offered, and more people are willing to join in with attacks.

I think that middle area (6-9 people) is probably ideal, because it offers a good balance between strategy and dealmaking.

I don't think I've played enough of each to really offer a super qualified opinion, but these are based on a few plays.

It's a fun game - and different too. Hope this helps

hobbes

Thread: Re: Oriente Review (My first review)

olav.mueller — 2005-09-02T10:37:08+00:00

Thanks, an excellent first review.

One question remains for me: Does the game scale well for the 4 to 12 players?

Thread: Re: Who gets the destiny token?

Schopfenhoffen — 2005-08-31T17:02:46+00:00

By your words:

the player who last fulfilled his destiny keep it.

Ciao!
Luca Coppola

Thread: Oriente Review (My first review)

hobbes2888 — 2005-08-31T04:17:42+00:00

After stumbling across BGG a few months ago and spending way too much time reading about way too many games, I figured I ought to contribute a little bit and maybe earn some GG while at it

Oriente Review

I had bought this as a gift for a friend after hours of searching for the "ideal" game. His tastes tend more towards medium-light games that are fun, well themed, easy to set-up, and can handle a wide range of people. Tough criteria... "Bang!" is his favourite, and he was actually the one that introduced that game not just to me, but our entire group of friends (I think he ended up ordering more than 25 copies of the game on behalf of various victims seduced by the addictive card game). otha62 described it as a cross between Bang! and Diplomacy, and I would have to agree - except think of Bang! where your "special character" card is hidden.

With that, I found this new game called Oriente that could handle a surprising 4 to 12(!!) players, it's card based, and initial reviews seemed quite favourable. Reading through the rules was horrendously confusing, but I know he liked the Ninja theme, so I thought it would be worth a try.

Our first attempt was with 5 players and we never really finished explaining the rules. We decided to just start playing, and figure it out as we went along. The first few rounds was pretty chaotic. No one understood anything, strategy was thrown out in favour of "let's try this to see what it does."

I think I will give scores to each component of this review (maybe it will become a regular thing) where:
>3 - Horrible
4-5 - Below average
6-7 - Average
8-9 - Above average
10 - Best I've seen

Gameplay
The rules are pretty confusing on first-pass, but there are nice player guides here in the files section. It also helps to have a brief overview of the flow, but ultimately, playing through a couple of painful rounds with someone frequently scanning the rules is probably the easiest way to learn. It would have been nice if it did come with one of those "Professor Easy" playing guides to take you through the flow. Hopefully this rundown will give you a big picture without all the little specifics...
In brief, game play goes like this:
* The point of the game is to defeat other characters and earn treasure (where treasure points = character strenght points).
* There are 9 different characters, each with different strengths and different special abilities (some with 2!). There are nice guidelines that explain each character, so I won't do it here. This is pretty crucial to gameplay as knowing what your character does directly affects your strategy.
* Your character is initially hidden.
* Play is not necessarily in a clockwise order, but rather someone declares their intention to play their turn (AKA "Fulfill their destiny") and thus reveals their character. Other players with stronger characters have the opportunity to trump that player's turn (AKA "Call their privilege"). When no one else wishes to trump the strongest player, they can take their turn.
* Each player takes one turn per round.
* A turn consists of either attacking another player or using their "Special Abilities"
* Attacking and defending players can recruit the help of other players (that have yet to take their turn) and add their combined strengths.
* Players forfeit their character to the winner of the battle and draw a new hidden character. The winner keeps the newly won character card in a treasure pile.
* The game ends the instant the Geisha card is drawn - randomly inserted in the last 4-8 cards of the draw pile.
Score: 7/10

Components
Overall, the cards are of decent quality - similar to other in the DaVinci Games series. The artwork is only OK, although each character was represented by a different animal dressed up in Japanese-style costumes. Also included were wooden disks to indicate whether a player's turn has been taken, a black counter to indicate the "first" player, as well as yellow pawns to represent farmers preparing for revolt. No complaints about the pieces, they serve their function reasonably well.
Score: 7/10

Theme
I am really big on theme, although abstract games are nice, I would much rather play the exact same game with an interesting theme appliedThe Ninja theme did come through OK, but not quite as good as others in the same line, like Bang!. The special abilities were indeed relevant to the characters, so that was nice.
Score: 6/10

Strategy
Although it took about 1/2 the game, we all started to realize the strategic significance of each player and their special abilities. The strategy is actually quite deep as the end-game is not exactly known, but can be estimated, and the fact that each player's scores are openly displayed. The multiple ways to take a turn allows some choice for strategy, although often there is only just one "good" choice. The sometime hidden, sometime revealed characters also offer a bit of bluffing. The ability to recruit help by offering treasure throws in a bit of negotiation and trading, as certain cards are more vulnerable than others in a treasure pile. The fact that you're not holding cards in your hand makes it seem to me that there are less choices, and that "you are not playing the game, the game is playing you" sensation, but after a few rounds, there are actually many choices in the game - when to play or not to play; which special ability to use; who to attack and who to recruit. Unfortunately, as with all games with open scores, it sometimes lends to kingmaking scenarios at the end-game, especially if it is close.
Score: 6.5/10

Overall Impression
We all had a lot of fun playing the game. It is certainly not an overly heavily strategic game, but then again, that's not what I was looking for. It is a bit harder to explain than "Bang!" but is definitely a nice step up after players are getting a little bit bored of the Western theme. There is definitely a sharp learning curve, since one needs to know each character's abilities well, but there are (only?) 9 different ones and 12 different special abilities. Knowing when they strategically offer advantages is the key to doing well. It is also nice that new players can still play and have fun with the game, since there is no early player elimination like Bang!. In general, it is a game that I would definitely play often, and would like to try it with more people. I would certainly recommend that you buy Bang! first, but if you've got (or played) a lot of games already, this inexpensive addition would be a refreshing change with some new and unusual mechanics.
Overall Score: 7/10

Well there you have it - my first review. Hope you enjoyed it

hobbes

Thread: Who gets the destiny token?

juuzzom — 2005-08-30T14:13:52+00:00

When a season ends what happens to the Destiny token? Does the player who last fulfilled his destiny keep it or does he give it to the player on his left or possibly to the player who sits to the left from the player who started the last season? Or something else...?

Thread: Re: Attacking with Help

quozl — 2005-08-04T23:13:17+00:00

You need an action disk in order to help.

Thread: Attacking with Help

jpact — 2005-08-04T21:36:15+00:00

When asking for help during an attack, the rules indicate that helpers must turn in their action disks. Does this imply that a player must have an action disk in order to provide help? Or can players that have already taken an action offer help even though they don't have an action disk?

We played it where anyone could help, but pretty soon only players who had already acted got involved in attacks, and did so without a second thought. It just didn't feel right to me.

Thread: Re: Initial Review of Oriente

Schopfenhoffen — 2005-07-26T09:47:32+00:00

Ok, you guess all!
You matched correctly all japanese names with the roles.
Nofu ->farmer
Daymio -> feudal noble
Maho Tsukhai -> mage
Akindo -> Merchant
Soryo ->priest

You can find strategical tips on editor's pages:
http://www.davincigames.it/download/oriente_strategy_tips.zi...
and some faqs:
http://www.davincigames.it/download/oriente_english_faq.zip

Playing with a Nofu is a good experience to make a lot of points.
Maybe it's the more powerful character.
But it's a little difficult to master because you have to think a little more than with other characters.
You can find at the link shown some strategy tips to make your Nofu invincible. (or you'll earn a lot of points before he dies)

Luca Coppola

Thread: Re: Initial Review of Oriente

GeoMan — 2005-07-23T00:53:33+00:00

Nice review. The Revolution is a balancing mechanism that helps players who draw Nofu's from falling behind...

Thread: Oriente Session

otha62 — 2005-07-20T22:57:26+00:00

We had some friends over recently and were able to play a six player game of Oriente. I like the game but I’m still learning the intricacies and this session opened my eyes yet a little more.

My initial role card was the Ninja and I patiently awaited announcing my action until play had went around a couple of times and every one had “fulfilled their destiny” and thus could not call privilege on me. I was fortunate enough for the Shogun to be in play and I was able to use my special ability and “Assassinate” the Shogun and put that card in my point stack. Once revealed, I became an immediate target and a Samurai took me out at the beginning of the next round. It just so happened that, through blind luck, I drew another Ninja card as my new role. Again I laid low and announced my “Assassination” action and was able to take out the Shogun again (a Daimyo had used his “Succession” ability earlier in the round and exchanged cards with the Shogun in my point stack and was thus back in play). I was not immediately targeted for attack this time however. The remaining Ninja card had been drawn and distributed as the prize card. Since it didn’t look like any one would collect all three Ninja cards and earn an instant win, no one wanted to waste an action on attacking a Ninja when it wouldn’t bring them any victory points. So I continued to wait until the end of each round and take out the highest point player for the next few rounds until a Nofu noticed the size of my point stack. Since a Ninja is immune to a Revolution, the Nofu used his treasure card to bribe a Maho-Tsukai into attacking me and taking me out, forcing me to draw a new role card. I drew an Akindo, and using my “Credit” ability took all the Nofu cards from a Daimyo. I also tried bribing folks into attacking the Nofu, but since I was in the lead, no one would take the bait. Luck ended up favoring me; before the Nofu could declare a Revolution and redistribute half of the cards in my point stack, the Geisha was drawn and ended the game. My point stack totaled 24 points while the next closest was 16.

This game confirmed my earlier sense that you should try not to reveal your role until you’re somewhat sure that no one will call privilege on you. Of course this isn’t always possible, and if you’re attacked you don’t have much choice. But if you can do this, especially with the lower numbered roles, you’re reasonably assured of at least getting to use your special ability once before getting attacked. I also learned this game how dangerous the Ninja can be if he’s ignored, so my play in the next game will be dependent upon my role. If I’m ever the Ninja, I’ll try to lay low and do the same thing as before. And if I’m not, I’m going to watch out for those players that lay low and try to take out the Ninja before it strikes. Failing that, I’ll take it out once that sucker’s revealed, points or no points…

Thread: Initial Review of Oriente

otha62 — 2005-07-20T00:09:19+00:00

Oriente is a unique card game that I can best describe as a cross between Bang! and Diplomacy. The rules were somewhat of a mixed bag. I was confused somewhat after I read them the first time through, but I think this was due more to the way the rules were organized. When I went through and took the rules one step at a time, they finally began to click. In the first game that we played, most of the players were confused for a round or two, but then it pretty much became second nature.

Oriente is basically a combat game where you gather victory points by either defeating other players or using your character’s special ability over the course of several rounds. Each player is initially dealt a treasure card (whose sole purpose seems to be to give you some initial victory points to tempt other players to come to your aid), an action chip, and a role card. The role card ranges in value from a 0 (Ninja) to a 7 (Shogun). The rest of the role cards form a draw deck. A round lasts until either every player with an action chip passes or all the action chips are played. At the beginning of a new round, each player gets his action chip back.

A prize card from the top of the draw deck is dealt face down at the beginning of each round; the first player to successfully “fulfill his destiny” (i.e., complete an action and turn in his action chip) during each round adds the prize card to his victory point stack. The starting player of each round either passes or reveals his role and his action (attack or special ability). Players that have a higher numbered role card may call privilege over a lower numbered character by revealing their own role, effectively pre-empting the lower player’s turn. The pre-empting player would then announce his action and, if no one else called privilege, complete his/her turn. Once an action is completed the player turns in his/her action chip and can do no more for that round (except to defend in case he’s attacked).

During an attack action, you compare the value of your role card against your opponent with the higher value determining the victor. However both parties can ask for help from other players with the promise of cards (victory points) from their point stack. If other players decide to help out, they turn in their action chip for that round and add the value of their role card to the player that they’re helping. The catch here is that the player who asked for help is not bound by his promises; he can either honor them or not.

As you defeat players via battle, you take their card (which has a victory point value) and add it to your point stack. Defeated players draw new role cards from the draw deck and play on. The game normally ends when the Geisha card is drawn, and the person with the most victory points in their point stack is declared the winner. However, an alternate way of ending and winning the game is to possess all three Ninja cards in your point stack.

The role cards range in value from a 0 (Ninja) to a 7 (Shogun). Each has their various and distinct special power(s). There are three Ninjas (value 0). Their special ability is Assassination; they can point to another player and add that card to their point stack.

There are twelve Nofu (value 1). The Nofu are like peasants, toward the bottom of the social scale. Their special abilities are Recruitment and Revolution. If doing Recruitment, they basically place a laborer meeple on a special card. Once there are enough laborers on the card to suit the Nofu they may choose to call for a Revolution. In a Revolution, all characters (except for Ninjas and other Nofu) whose value is less than or equal to the number of laborers must randomly give up half of their victory point stack to be randomly redistributed to the Nofu participating in the Revolution.

There are seven Akindo (value 2). They are one step up from peasants, and I sort of view them as merchants. The Akindo, like the Nofu, have two special abilities: Credit and Trading. By using a Credit, they can point to any player and take all Nofu cards from that player’s victory point stack and add them to their own. By Trading, they can take a random card from another player’s point stack and give them a card of the Akindo’s choosing in return.

There are six Samurai (value 3). The Samurai’s special ability is Martiality and can only be used in battle. During battle, the Samurai would turn over a card from the draw deck and add it to his combat total. If he is defeated, the turned over card becomes his new role; if he wins, that card becomes his opponent’s new role. The Samurai can only “fulfill his destiny” by attacking.

There are five Daimyo (value 4). The Daimyo’s special abilities are Annuity and Succession. If he uses Annuity, he simply draws the top card from the draw deck and adds it to his point stack. When he uses Succession, if the Shogun is in play, the Daimyo becomes the Shogun by swapping role cards with the player that owns it, even if the Shogun is in that player’s point stack.

There are four Maho-Tsukai (value 5). The Maho-Tsukai’s (I'm assuming this character is something like a Magician or Wizard) special ability is Transmutation. In this action, the Maho-Tsukai puts his role card on the bottom of the draw deck takes each player’s active role cards and secretly chooses one as his new role, draws a card from the deck and shuffles it with the rest of the roles, and then deals them out face down to the other players.

There are two Soryu (value 6). The Soryu's (I'm guessing this character is like a Priest) special ability is Prayer. By using Prayer, the Soryu automatically gets the prize card for that round if it has not been claimed already.

There is only one Shogun (7) card and his special ability is Invincible Defense. No one can attack the Shogun; however, he can be defeated in a battle if he attacks another player. The Shogun is also vulnerable to other character’s special abilities. The Shogun can only “fulfill his destiny” by attacking.

I haven’t played quite enough to come up with a surefire winning strategy yet. Being a card game, there’s a fair amount of luck involved but I think that can be balanced somewhat by how well you adapt to each role and also how well you negotiate help from other players. When negotiating, the tendency early on seems to be to honor your promises so as not to make too many enemies too soon, but towards the game’s end, all bets are off. I also tend not to reveal my role and announce my action (aka “fulfill my destiny”) until I’m pretty sure the players that can call privilege over me have already completed their actions for that round. That especially helps out if you’re the Ninja. They have a powerful special ability (Assassination) but it’s in every other player’s interest to attack the Ninja once revealed, and since the Ninja has a value of zero, any one can call privilege on you…

The primary drawback to the game that I’ve seen thus far is dependent upon the luck of the draw. If one player consistently draws the lower role cards (particularly the Nofu and Akindo cards, of which there are plenty), I can see where he/she will probably lose interest. The fun, to me, is in playing a variety of roles. Depending on the amount of players and the situation, it’s possible that you could draw many role cards in the course of a game. And being unlucky enough to draw the Nofu each time you have to draw a new role card is not only frustrating, it more than likely means you’re going to be getting your butt kicked throughout the game. Although the Nofu can strike it rich with a successful Revolution, in the games I’ve played, they and the Akindo are the primary targets for attacks by the higher ranked characters. Most of the players I’ve played with liked the game, but the ones who ended up drawing the Akindo and Nofu roles the most, liked it less.

Oriente will accommodate up to twelve players but I’ve yet to play it with more than six. I get the feeling that the game would probably be better with a couple more players but might get a little chaotic with twelve. I’ve enjoyed it thus far but still need several more plays to experience more of the possibilities. It has a cutthroat element to it but no one is eliminated from play and the special abilities, particularly those of the Nofu, Daimyo, and Maho-Tsukai, ensure that the game can turn on a dime and that no lead is too safe. Currently, I rate it a 7.

Thread: Re: Samurai Special Power

Werebear — 2005-06-28T12:15:07+00:00

Actually, I just realized who Luca is - so scratch that... we heard it from the designer himself!

Go Nofu!

Thread: Re: Samurai Special Power

Werebear — 2005-06-28T12:12:06+00:00

Well, I for one never doubted that you were right, Joe!

And I just got my own copy, and after reading the rules thrice, agree with the "involved" interpretation...

I'll ask Mayfair at Origins, and get it in writing... *grins*

Thread: Re: Aikindo trade ability

Schopfenhoffen — 2005-06-27T22:24:03+00:00

Akindos are merchants, so they use the unequal exchange to get points.
They are able to choose the card (the good) they want to sell and they are able to get the card (the payment) they prefer.
If an akindo has no card, he can use his ability to get a point card from another charachter without giving back anithing. May be a "Bye and Thanks, guy".

Thanks for the care you get in reading the rules
You are welcome in crying out (by mail or on this pages) every question or mistake.

Yes, Akindos aren't good people.
Luca Coppola

Thread: Re: Aikindo trade ability

Mike A — 2005-06-24T14:50:27+00:00

I assumed the same thing, but you are correct that it is unclear.

Thread: Aikindo trade ability

tool — 2005-06-24T03:59:15+00:00

In the English rules for the Aikindo's trade ability, it says that if the Aikindo player does not have any point cards, "too bad." This is unclear - is it too bad for the other player, because the Aikindo can can take a card without giving one back, or is it too bad for the Aikindo player, because without a card to trade he or she cannot take this action? My assumption is that the former is the case, but I'd like to be sure.

Thread: Re: Samurai Special Power

joedivec — 2005-06-23T12:37:13+00:00

Thanks. It is a very fun game. Personally I thought the rules were clear, but some other people in my group were arguing with me that "involved" only meant the attacker and defender.

Thread: Re: Samurai Special Power

Schopfenhoffen — 2005-06-23T11:25:32+00:00

You are right.
Anyway,I think the rules is clear..
-every samurai "involved" in the battle- stays for:
every samuray in every battle in all roles: attacker, defender and helper. Yes, the rules can be like this, but i think -every samurai "involved" in the battle- have something more, stylistically speaking..
ops.. sorry for the spaghetti-english in this mail!

Luca Coppola