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Theme changed by the publisher
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
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Some I've guessed, some I've been told, but there must be many more cases I never heard about... Please add them.

The result seems to be usually bad, so I hope publishers will become more weary of changing the theme of a game for no real reason. If you don't like a game's theme, don't disfigure it and just publish another one.
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1. Board Game: Wongar [Average Rating:6.36 Overall Rank:1865]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
Avatar
Original : Mediaeval Japan
Published : Aborigines

Reason : No war in Germany
Result : Disastrous

The original theme made sense, with shogun, emperor, and various military units. The new one doesn't, with oldest and elder, and various shapes of wooden bits with silly names.
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J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
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One of the few games I bought for the theme, and one of the very few I keep for the theme. I wish it were better balanced and developed as a game design.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 6:46 am
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Sami Nurmela
Finland
Turku
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Oh, I didn't know this was re-themed. Too bad, the original theme probably would have made much more sense.
 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 2, 2007 11:54 am
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Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
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One of my favorite Moon games - especially for the theme!

Game director Joe Nikisch did a wonderful job!
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  • Posted Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:10 am
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Paul Butler
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
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I'm actually not only very fond of the game itself, but it probably would never have caught my eye if it had been yet another Japan themed game.
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:44 am
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Lou Seelbach
United States
Huntington
West Virginia
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LesterKlew wrote:
My friend Lawrence Lacertilia has this game and I thought it looked pretty interesting until I found out that the boomerang piece does not come back when you throw it. If you are going to put a boomerang in the game it should come back when you throw it. I had to buy Lawrence a new mirror and I still have over four years of bad luck to go.


...unless you kill something with it, in which case it drops to the ground.
 
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  • Posted Mon May 3, 2010 2:57 am
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2. Board Game: El Grande [Average Rating:7.89 Overall Rank:14]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Trojan War
Published : Renaissance Spain

Reason : already a Trojan War game at Nuernberg this year
Result : slightly bad

As a Trojan Horse, the Castello made some sense. There was no paratroopers base in the Balearics at this time.
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Justin
United States
Creve Coeur
MO
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 9:23 am
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Jed Ashforth
United Kingdom
Stockport
cheshire
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Yep, but it would have made a cool looking alternative to that chipboard tower.
 
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:27 pm
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The Trojan Horse would have been awesome. cool
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:30 am
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Jonathan Degann
United States
Westlake Village
California
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Quote:
As a Trojan Horse, the Castello made some sense.


Better to be inside a Trojan Horse than in a horse Trojan.
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  • Posted Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:17 am
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Mo Verdigast
United States
Bellevue
Washington
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Quote:
There was no paratroopers base in the Balearics at this time.


So this could be re-themed again, but this time with paratroopers?
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  • Posted Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:23 am
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3. Board Game: Himalaya [Average Rating:7.07 Overall Rank:378]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Sci Fi
Published : Himalayan Trade

Reason : Sci Fi don't sell
Result : very good

The original theme was bland. The new one feels fresh, is well integrated and makes as much sense.
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Gergely CZ.
Hungary
BUDAPEST
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Before the Himalaya theme there was also the normal trading theme, am I right? In the free print-and-play version.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 6:52 am
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C C
United Kingdom
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I had had my eye on this one for ages so when I spotted it when I was on holiday in Prague at the end of August I couldn't resit picking it up. Played a couple of times now and really enjoyed it.

Now I want the expansion too.
 
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  • Posted Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:40 am
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nestor romeral andres
Spain

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Quote:
Reason : Sci Fi don't sell


Why??

 
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  • Posted Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:44 am
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Scott Nelson
United States
Ammon
Idaho
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Yes, before Himalayan theme was placed on it it was about Merchants delivering resources called Merchants of Empire - yes, bad grammar in the english used, but it was free print and play, and I still have a copy I made of it. Very good for the time and free. Now it might be too samey as others and get lost in the shuffle.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 5, 2010 8:15 pm
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Eric Brosius
Spain
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
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I am always amused when someone arrives at a settlement too late and spends an action breathing in the thin mountain air.

If it were set in space, the air would have been even thinner... gulp
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:29 am
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4. Board Game: Mesopotamia [Average Rating:6.60 Overall Rank:869]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : probably Aztecs or Mayas, may be Polynesia
Published : Mesopotamia

Reason : Don't know
Result : Disastrous

It's in Mesopotamia, but there's not a single river and there are lots of Volcanoes...
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Snowball
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Agreed! But same for the elephants below.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 10:43 am
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Andreas Johansson
Sweden
Linköping
I spent 200 GG and all I got was this lousy overtext!
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faidutti wrote:
Indeed, I've just been told that there were active volcanoes in ancient Mesopotamia, and there were much more forest and fruits than now. So, the theme change is not bad, though an historical survey telling the ignorant gamers about trhese volcanoes and forests could have been welcome at the end of the rules!

See some details here : http://rbedrosian.com/mythint.htm

Except none of the volcanoes mentioned in that article are located in Mesopotamia.
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  • Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:59 pm
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Mo Verdigast
United States
Bellevue
Washington
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faidutti wrote:
Indeed, I've just been told that there were active volcanoes in ancient Mesopotamia, and there were much more forest and fruits than now. So, the theme change is not bad, though an historical survey telling the ignorant gamers about trhese volcanoes and forests could have been welcome at the end of the rules!

See some details here : http://rbedrosian.com/mythint.htm


Maybe Magdar can chime in with information about volcanos. He's very knowledgeable about such things.
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  • Posted Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:27 am
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Matthias Kortleven
Netherlands
Enschede
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I think this game is just to boring to even bother thinking about the theme. The components look great, though.
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  • Posted Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:32 am
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Mike Jones
United States
Gainesville
Florida
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hhhmmm, never even thought to question if there are volcanos or not in mesopitotamia.

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  • Posted Wed May 5, 2010 8:25 pm
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5. Board Game: Taj Mahal [Average Rating:7.46 Overall Rank:102]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Mediaeval England
Published : Mediaeval (?) India

Reason : Too many games about Mediaeval England
Result : Don't know

I don't like the game as it is, but I'm not sure I would have liked the original.
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Rene Wiersma
Netherlands

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I think this is more about 1800ish India. I believe I read that Knizia wasn't too hot about this thematic change. Contrary to popular belief Knizia does care a lot about the theme of his games.

Although I haven't played the prototype with the original theme (obviously) I do think the conversion is slightly succesful. The current theme is more original, even though in the end it doesn't matter a whole lot. I love the game anyway.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 12:31 pm
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Sami Nurmela
Finland
Turku
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No problem with this theme change at all (I'd probably love this game with any theme). Still, a version played on the map of Britain would be interesting too.
 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 2, 2007 12:00 pm
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Andreas Johansson
Sweden
Linköping
I spent 200 GG and all I got was this lousy overtext!
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The Taj Mahal was built in the 17th century.
 
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  • Posted Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:19 pm
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Jeroen Harkes
Netherlands
Voorburg
Zuid Holland
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My biggest problem with the theme is that the Taj Mahal is a mausoleum and not a palace.
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  • Posted Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:00 pm
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Mike Jones
United States
Gainesville
Florida
Yeah it's here! Really it's right here.
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There's a theme to this game?
 
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  • Posted Wed May 5, 2010 8:25 pm
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6. Board Game: Iliad [Average Rating:6.66 Overall Rank:783]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Middle Age War
Published : Trojan War

Reason : New theme more original
Result : Not bad

I know, there were no elephants in the Trojan war, and only one wooden horse, but who cares.
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Frank Strauss
Germany
Berlin
Unspecified
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faidutti wrote:

But you do care about no rivers and too much volcanos in Mesopotamia ??
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 7:54 am
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J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
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I get to slaughter Care Bears? Damn. Right on. That's one of the few things I can think of that might persuade me to play Doom.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 5:23 pm
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M C
United States
Orem
Utah
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Quote:
however elephants do strike the imagination and are a real "education problem" if you play with children.


Interviewer: Those were excellent responses Bill, and I think you'll make a great CEO. Just one more question and we're through here. What can you tell me about the role of elephants in the trojan war?

Bill: They played an important part, along with catapults and colorful cards.

Interviewer: Did I say CEO? Bill, can you operate a fry basket?
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  • Posted Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:17 pm
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Mike N.
United States
Brunswick
Maine
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There aren't any mythical beasts in the Iliad, either, though there are plenty of gods and the Chimaera is mentioned twice.

The Odyssey, of course, is chock full of 'em.
 
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  • Posted Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:32 pm
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Andrew Breitenbach
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
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DarrellKH wrote:
Quote:
Imagine if you had shelled out for Fantasy Flight's Doom: the Boardgame and you got it home and it turned out that some of the monsters you had to fight were the Care Bears.


Fact is stranger than fiction.

There was a mod for the Doom game for the PC, that changed the Hellbarons to purple Barney dinosaurs.

"DIE, YOU CARE BEAR SCUM!!! EAT THIS!!!"




Actually, if I remember this right, that Doom mod was an hommage to an infamous Castle Wolfenstein 3-D mod called Castle Barneystein. Basically, the Nazis became Barneys, which you could then gun down to your ornithoscelidaphobic content. Castle Barneystein had further notoriety because some versions had a nasty Trojan Horse grafted onto it -- which somehow magically brings us back to "Iliade".
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  • Posted Mon Mar 5, 2007 9:01 am
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7. Board Game: Die Weinhändler [Average Rating:5.17 Overall Rank:6697]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Carrying Cotton on the Mississipi
Published : carrying wine on the Loire

Reason : Mississipi Queen
Result : Disastrous

Who dreams of carrying wine on the Loire ??? Ever seen a movie or read a book about this ?
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Brian Newman
United States
Portland
Oregon
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Maybe it's so you can relive the amazing life of Captain Jean-Luc Picard... 's brother the crotchety old vintner.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 6:29 am
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Clay Blankenship
United States
Owens Crossroads
Alabama
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The Loire theme seems more romantic than the Mississippi one, but then I grew up practically across the street from a cotton field.
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:05 pm
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Innovan .
United States
San Francisco/East Bay
California
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Steam boats on the Loire?

I just don't picture paddlewheel boats that can explode racing to ferry wine up and down the Loire. This has coal stokers (really, piles of coal you use as fuel) and boatswains.

And when people think of wine they think of different value vintages from different quality vineyards, not as all of them the same value. Really the generic "barrel of wine" in this game makes much more sense as a bale of cotton of the same value no matter where it comes from.

Mississippi Queen was a fine game and a fine theme, only improved by the Black Rose expansion. The publishers were silly to change the theme here ...but the game comes off weak compared to Mississippi Queen.
 
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  • Posted Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:04 pm
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Lester Klew
United States
Norwich
Connecticut
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I am guessing they changed it because of the name. I mean, it got mispelled, but it obviously means Die, Wine Handler, so I can see why they changed it from cotton. I mean if you have a game called Die, Wine Handler and it doesn't have wine in it, that would just be really stupid.

I don't know why they want the Wine Handler to die, though, since I never played it. Maybe he charges too much for the wine or something.
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  • Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:04 am
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Jim Marshall
United Kingdom
York
North Yorkshire
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I've carried wine up the Loire .... in a bicycle pannier bag!

We pulled over, broke open the baguettes and cheese, pulled out the wine cork .... very pleasant indeed!
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  • Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:44 pm
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8. Board Game: Ave Caesar [Average Rating:6.67 Overall Rank:595]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Car Racing
Published : Charriot Racing

Reason : Sport don't sell (except for Formula De)
Result : Great

Of course, refuelling made more sense, but the Salute to Cesar is a great idea, and the Ben Hur reference is obvious.
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Rene Wiersma
Netherlands

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It's so obvious that the salute to Caesar was originally intended as a pitstop for a car racing game. By the way, wasn't this lately rethemed as a space racing game?
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 12:36 pm
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Richard Pardoe
United States
San Ramon
California
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It was recently re-released in Japan as Q-Jet 21XX with futuristic sci-fi a racing theme.

And don't forget Ausgebremst which is Ave Caesar with the racing car theme (and a few tactical rules). Yet which theme is most in demand.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 4:01 pm
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Guido von TricTrac
Germany
Konstanz
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Not just that you need to make a pit stop, you can obvioulsy run out of fuel (when you don't have any more cards on your hand).
And additionally, no roman race track had so much curves and narrow passages. The circus maximus just didn't look like Silverstone or Hockenheim Ring.
"The most important event at the Circus was chariot racing. The track could hold twelve chariots, and the two sides of the track were separated by a raised median termed the spina. The spina was set slightly diagonally. Statues of various gods were set up on the spina, and Augustus erected an Egyptian obelisk on it as well. At either end of the spina was a turning post, the meta, around which chariots made dangerous turns at speed. On top of the spina, there were rotatable metal dolphins that were turned down to mark laps around the course. In one race, only one out of 12 chariots made it through the race; the other chariots broke, ran into walls, or crashed one way or another."
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_Maximus
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  • Posted Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:40 pm
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nestor romeral andres
Spain

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Quote:
Reason : Sport don't sell (except for Formula De)


Why??

 
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  • Posted Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:45 am
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9. Board Game: The Hollywood! Card Game [Average Rating:5.60 Overall Rank:5456]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Mediaeval Barons
Published : Making movies

Reason : Too many mediaeval games
Result : Neutral

The original theme was already very light.
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Luke Morris
Japan
Nagoya
Aichi
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Alright for what it is - and would be about the same whatever theme it was...
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 12:00 pm
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bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
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Quote:
Who designed this one, Bruno?


I know it feels moch Schachtesque than Faidutti-esque, but the designe was really half and half, common work from the very beginning.
 
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  • Posted Sat Sep 9, 2006 3:26 pm
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Felix Chou
Taiwan
Yonghe
Taipei County
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Don't you talk about the medieval version? I can not understand the humor behind those actors that makes the game a silly theme.
 
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  • Posted Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:59 pm
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Jokin GarcĂ­a
Spain
Bilbao
Bizkaia
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i think that this is a great theme change. i mean, creating movie scripts is what makes this game worthy of being played. I can´t think about this one without the theme, it would be a litlle senseless and much less funny.
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  • Posted Tue Apr 3, 2007 8:31 pm
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RUSH May 21st 2011
England
York
North Yorkshire
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I've since played this several times, and really enjoy it. Once players understand the process, it becomes very sharp, and fast. Strongly recommended as a great filler, which is not faint praise, gamers need fillers.

Edit: Also, the cards add up to one large painting for each genre (like the cards in Lost Cities do).
 
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  • Edited Fri May 28, 2010 10:45 am
  • Posted Fri May 28, 2010 10:44 am
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10. Board Game: Knock! Knock! [Average Rating:5.45 Overall Rank:5997]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Fairy Wood
Published : Halloween

Reason : No more dwarves and fairies
Result : Slightly bad

The game still makes fun, but why don't girls never stay ay parties?
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Frank Branham
United States
Norcross
Georgia
designer
publisher
Battle Beyond Space Status: Layout Done. Currently scheduled for June 2012.
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Haven't you been trying for Parliament of the Fairies for some time? (See Democrazy.)

Moo,
Frank
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006 9:39 pm
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Lester Klew
United States
Norwich
Connecticut
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Who's there?
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  • Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007 10:09 am
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11. Board Game: Atlantic Star [Average Rating:6.96 Overall Rank:451]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : See Showmanager
Published : Sea cruises in the thirties

Reason : just change something for the new edition
Result : Disastrous

The original was fun. The reprint isn't.
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Marena Tiano
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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I have to disagree with you here. Atlantic Star is still fun. But you make strong points on many of the other items.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 6:24 am
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Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
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This is one I disagree on. This new theme is very unique and the art is great. I already had Traumfabrik and was not interested in Show Manager, but was interested in this. I bought this and I like it a lot!

 
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:17 am
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Mark Jackson
United States
Fresno
California
Am I a man or am I a muppet? If I'm a muppet then I'm a very manly muppet!
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The problem with Atlantic Star is not simply the goofy theme - it's that they took a perfectly good mechanism (the sliding scale for buying actors/ships) and screwed it up!

In Showmanager, the agent board is in a straight line - remove an actor & slide the rest down. In Atlantic Star, it's a U-turn... which means you are ALWAYS fiddling with the cards. Sigh.
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  • Posted Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:26 pm
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Ed Sherman
United States
Colorado Springs
Colorado
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I bought Atlantic Star over Showmanager because I can't stand the artwork in Showmanager. It reminds me of those caricature artists at the county fair.
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  • Posted Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:22 pm
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Eric Brosius
Spain
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
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I rate Show Manager one rating point higher than Atlantic Star. The primary reason is theme, and the secondary reason is that I like the card distribution better in Show Manager.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:33 am
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12. Board Game: Through the Desert [Average Rating:7.16 Overall Rank:191]
W M Shubert
United States
Portland
Oregon
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Original: Building resorts on islands
Published: Building camel trains through deserts
Why: Don't know
Result: Game is excellent - hard to believe original theme would have been better

Reinier has mentioned this several times in interviews.
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Burke Glover
United States
Unspecified
Delaware
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I thought I heard somewhere that this was about building golf courses. No way that would have sold.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 7:35 am
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Stephen Shaw
United States
Cleveland
Ohio
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The game definitely does well, and I love it -- but something where encircling property for benefit (and locking your opponent out) makes sense would be more thematic. Kinda like Hey! Thats my Fish -- you know when you have locked your opponent out, that those fish will later be eaten by the penguin, but trekking through desert and then counting those points of empty sand as "victory points" doesnt make a whole lotta sense! Maybe French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, etc caravans staking out parts of Central/North America would make more thematic sense here.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 10:32 pm
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
United States
Mountain View
California
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Don't forget the Rockefellers....
 
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  • Posted Sat Sep 9, 2006 1:49 am
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Big Woo
Scotland
state:
running out of space...
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René Wiersma wrote:
I think the publisher may have been right on this one. Building resorts for rich tourists isn't such an atraactive theme.

Bill Eldard wrote:
When I read in a Knizia interview that his theme had to do with families building competing resorts on an island, I just couldn't imagine it.

Island resort development is thematical ground he already covered, to a certain extent. Just check out his "Das Letzte Paradies".
 
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  • Posted Sat Sep 9, 2006 4:46 am
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Laszlo Molnar
Hungary
Budapest
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Quote:
hard to believe original theme would have been better

Except that the original theme makes sense but the new one doesn't. The game is really excellent.
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:48 am
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13. Board Game: Big Kini [Average Rating:6.49 Overall Rank:1914]
bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Original : Space Empire building
Published : Polynesian Island

Reason : Sci fi don't sell
Result : Silly

The new theme is so thin that you can still feel the original underlying it.
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Jim Cote
United States

Maine
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Quote:
The new theme is so thin that you can still feel the original underlying it.


That explains a lot.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 7:19 am
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Sascha Hoppe
Germany
Braunschweig / City of Lions
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I'm from Germany and all the folks I play with love Sci-Fi. I don't understand this "don't sell"-thing either. Would be nice to see something new for those who like Sci-Fi and are forced to play the convoluted TI3.
 
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  • Posted Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:18 am
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Sami Nurmela
Finland
Turku
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I've had no interest to play this game due to the theme. As a scifi game, I'd probably buy it.
 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 2, 2007 12:03 pm
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Mike Ellis
Canada
Vernon
British Columbia
Gaming is a lifestyle choice.
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SCI FI is the best theme ever! No questions asked.


Checkout the sci-fi guild here on the geek for all your sci-fi goodness:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/guild/151
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  • Posted Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:12 pm
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Andrea Angiolino
Italy
Rome
European Union
designer
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GSReis wrote:
I sincerely hope you are lucky with your new Sci-Fi designs, Bruno!


Please have a look at Ad Astra.
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  • Posted Fri May 28, 2010 10:50 am
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14. Board Game: Torres [Average Rating:7.24 Overall Rank:184]
Steve Kearon
United Kingdom
Cardiff
Feeling great. How about you?
The once and future game
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Torres was originally designed around the King Arthur legend, but when the publishers weren't interested it got re-themed to Welsh castles (principally those in Gwynedd).

Unfortunately, the publishers didn't like this either, and decided to go with a Spanish theme.


See the article by Wofgang Kramer:
http://www.thegamesjournal.com/articles/InventingTorres.shtm...
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bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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No matter where the castles are, I think you can consider this one an abstract.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 9:53 am
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bruno faidutti
France
LES ANGLES
designer
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Quote:
Isn't that true of most every "Gamers Game"? Except for those games I call "Dweeb Games*" (theme rich, like Shadows over Camelot or Descent or HeroScape, etc), most games are pretty much non-themed (call it abstract, if you like). Take away the theme from Rheinlander or Chinatown or whatnot, and you still have the same game. In my book, at least.


I don't think Heroscape has a theme, unless "put everything and the rest together and shuffle well" is a theme.


On the other hand, I think that some games can be considered mostly abstract, but really not all of them, and certainly not the best ones. When there are rules, cards, effects that wouldn't make sense in the game out of the theme, like for example in my Valley of the Mammoths, Mission: Red Planet or Mystery of the Abbey, it's definitely not an abstract.

That's probably where some publishers, mostly german, are wrong in their approach of game theming. They consider that theme is just a trick to help you present and explain the rules of a game that is, at its core, abstract, and therefore they consider that it's easy to change the theme. The theme is much more, it's part of the fun of the game, because it brings player into the theme's mood, and because it is a pretxet for all the jokes you can make during the game.
This doesn't mean that theme never ought to be changed, but it means that changing the theme, when dealing with a complex gamer's game, ought to cause some changes in the mechanisms to make the new theme fun and relevant, and therefore means a brand new test campaign, which is usually not done. It's easy to see with games like Wongar and Big Kini - when something doesn't make sense with the theme, just think of the original theme and you will usually immediately guess what it originally meant.
Of course, lighter games usually have lighter themes, so with them it's usually not necessary.
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  • Posted Sat Sep 9, 2006 3:38 pm
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Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
South Carolina
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Interesting comment. I guess that's a separation of gamers. I don't really like games to have cards and components and rules that tie the game to a particular theme. For instance, Tigris & Euphrates is fine and doesn't in any way tie to the board or components. There are no cards that say "River confluence...do X" and that's good.

The games I seem to like less and less these days are the ones that render the game downright unplayable as an "abstract." I guess I've grown to prefer games where the theme doesn't get in the way.
 
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:20 pm
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Goran Topic
Japan
Nerima-ku
Tokyo
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Huh... well, I completely disagree, and submit Dune as an example. Can anyone claim it is a bad game? I don't think so - and the most problems you can tie to it have to do with its being almost 30 years old now. However, its theme is integral to the play. At least half of the rules would make absolutely no sense if you don't take its theme into account.

In a perhaps a bit weaker argument, the same is true for most american-style wargames. And I have no idea how Cosmic Encounter would work under any other theme (Baltic Encounter? Venetian Encounter? Sahara Encounter? I don't think so shake )
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  • Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:49 pm
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Please stay, abendoso!
Spain
Victoria
An ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you Frantic
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I read a comment somewhere on the 'geek suggesting a much better theme: skyscraper building in Dubai. The tower components would need to look a little different, of course.

Torres is a wasted opportunity to avoid the ubiquitous Euro meta-theme: "you are all trying to impress a local bigwig by building something".

Excellent game though.
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:26 am
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15. Board Game: Pizarro & Co. [Average Rating:6.62 Overall Rank:871]
Bryan Johnson
United States
North Andover
Massachusetts
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I remember talking with Tom Lehmann at the airport in Columbus, Ohio back in April and asking him how much control he has as a designer over the theme, artwork and production of his games. He answered in one word,... "Zero". He went on to give me an example with his game Pizarro & Co., which he said originally had absolutely nothing to do with the renaissance or exploration. I don't recall if he ever even mentioned what the original was all about but it was an interesting conversation.
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Speed Diplomacy


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Go to Fury of Dracula and read the PDF rulebook's design notes. The designer wrote that a company pressured him to re-theme his lifelong Dracula project but he persevered.
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  • Posted Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:08 pm
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Ian Anderson
New Zealand
Wellington
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I've always thought this would be best with a Hollywood theme. The Explorers become Film Stars, the players become Studios or Producers and each auction is the Studios / Producers competing to secure the Star for a role. In phase one (early career) Stars make three films, phase two is mid career, and in the final phase the Stars are so rich and famous they only need to do one film. The VPs represent Oscars or Kudos or Box Office ratings.
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  • Posted Fri Dec 8, 2006 12:12 am
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pep leysen
Belgium
mol
antwerp
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ianne wrote:
I've always thought this would be best with a Hollywood theme. The Explorers become Film Stars, the players become Studios or Producers and each auction is the Studios / Producers competing to secure the Star for a role. In phase one (early career) Stars make three films, phase two is mid career, and in the final phase the Stars are so rich and famous they only need to do one film. The VPs represent Oscars or Kudos or Box Office ratings.


ok, I do have a copy of Magellan (which doesn't get played anymore), but I would buy your Hollywood-version.
 
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  • Posted Tue Jun 5, 2007 8:07 am
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16. Board Game: Medieval Merchant [Average Rating:6.79 Overall Rank:734]
David Bohnenberger
United States
Swarthmore
Pennsylvania
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I've heard that this was originally designed as an Airline game, but was changed due to three different Airline games being released at around the same time.

I'm not sure that theme would have made much more sense.
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Thee Insidius Doktor Glaze & His Sidekick Donut Boy with the Amazing Monkeytime Dancers Ooh!
United States
Shorewood
Wisconsin
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My idea for a re-theme was fast food chains in mall food courts. Or airlines, which turned out to be the original...
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  • Posted Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:34 pm
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Robert Markley
New Zealand
Auckland
Unspecified
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This game certainly seems to divide opinion a lot... I fall into the 'love it' category. I think a lot of the problems people have is confusing it with a train / route building game and hence the problems with the theme or comments that it is thinly themed.

Actually I think the theme is which it incidently pulls off quite brilliantly is the boom and bust economic cycle i.e. a new market opens up and there are huge profits to be made but as more and more people enter the market the profits get sqeezed until the key is to maintain market share. As such the historical setting is almost incidental. It works to have Germany opened up the the spice trade (pepper I assume) but equally it could be dot.com boom or airlines etc etc.
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  • Posted Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:40 pm
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17. Board Game: Balloon Cup [Average Rating:6.74 Overall Rank:492]
Brad Fuller
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
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Original : Piñatas
Published : Baloon racing (kind of)

Reason : Not Sure
Result : ?

The designer is a friend of mine and this was his original theme. The cubes represented candy and the players were playing cards to get the candy. Changed by Kosmos
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Rene Wiersma
Netherlands

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The original theme made more sense, playwise, but I can understand why Kosmos changed the theme to ballooning as most people in Europe aren't familiar with the whole pinata thing.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 12:46 pm
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Christine Doiron
United States
Juneau
Alaska
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I like the Ballooning theme. It's what drew me to the game. I don't think I would have thought to purchase a pinata themed game.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:53 am
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Eirik Sandaas
Norway
Trondheim
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Admiral Fisher wrote:
I'd never heard of Pinatas (how do you do that "n" on a standard keyboard)


Alt Gr + the ¨ key, then the n-key? (The ¨^~ -key situated just left of the enter-key on my "north-european" dell keyboard)

Where do other people keep their umlauts?
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:59 am
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Laszlo Molnar
Hungary
Budapest
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RDewsbery wrote:
I have a very limited idea of what I think a pinata is - with most Europeans you're going to get a "What's a pinata?"

I'm one of them. I even don't understand after looking it up in the wikipedia.
But if it was explained in the beginning of the rules it would have been a nice occasion to learn something in a playful way.
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:51 am
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Scott Nelson
United States
Ammon
Idaho
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Paper strips that are glued into an animal figure that you stuff candy into. Someone grabs a stick and is blind folded and tries to smack the thing till the candy falls out.
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  • Posted Wed May 5, 2010 8:26 pm
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18. Board Game: Alhambra [Average Rating:7.05 Overall Rank:241]
Big Woo
Scotland
state:
running out of space...
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The Alhambra's palace ground were replaced for the rather less inspiring setting of Troisdorf, Queen games' hometown for a local promotional campaign by Troisdorf's business community.

Alhambra- The Troisdorf edition hardly has the monopoly as a successful game being rethemed for promotional ends. Nuff said.
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Dan Blum
United States
Wilmington
Massachusetts
And of course Alhambra itself was developed from Stimmt So, which was themed around buying stocks, and Stimmt So was a nice reprint of Al Capone, which I think you can guess the theme of.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 4:43 pm
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Laszlo Molnar
Hungary
Budapest
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And now you have New York, which is a US-themed version of Alhambra... shake
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:53 am
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19. Board Game: Dia de los Muertos [Average Rating:6.65 Overall Rank:1442]
Jake Baker
United States
Fishers
Indiana
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Original: Mexican day of the dead
Published: Dragons

Reason: Fantasy sells better.
Result: Don't know

I thought the day of the dead theme was both original and a tight fit to the mechanics. I don't think the new theme works as well...
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Jeremy Carlson
United States
Wheaton
Illinois
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I bought the original from Frank B., years ago. I also am good friends with Jim Dietz, and do the website for Jolly Roger Games, so I am familiar with both. But...I'm not sure the theme really matters in this one. Its just a trick taking game. I like both.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 3:30 pm
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Kevin Cachia
United States
Springfield
Pennsylvania
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I bought this as Four Dragons, but only because it really caught my interest when it was called Dia de los Muertos. For me, the re-theming was a real disappointment.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 10:40 pm
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
United States
Mountain View
California
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I like the new theming (and artwork), but I would happily have both versions.
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  • Posted Sat Sep 9, 2006 1:51 am
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Jim Dietz
United States
Sigel
Illinois
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I loved the original theme. But when I took it to distributors and retailers, I was met with an overwhelming "We can't sell it because it's satanic" mentality--never mind that it is a Mexican Catholic holiday and that the art in the original DdlM is a classical style.
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:26 pm
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Frank Branham
United States
Norcross
Georgia
designer
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Battle Beyond Space Status: Layout Done. Currently scheduled for June 2012.
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The game was inspired by the theme. The only elements of the idea that are really present in the design are:

3 hands = 3 days of the celebrations.
Feeding the Dead.

It is pretty loose, when it comes down to it. Things like the gift exchange (totally made up. Sugar skulls are a traditional gift, but there isn't really a strong traditions) and the idea of collecting food and dead sound kinda sorta correct.

Jim's description is accurate. He suggested the rather generic "Dragon" theme, and Sandi and I tore into that with our wall of myths books to match it to the Four Dragons theme.

In a lot of ways, the Four Dragons version might be better themed, as we were more conscious of the theme when we were reworking the game. Not nearly as cool as skeletal monkeys, though. More games really need skeletal monkeys.
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  • Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006 9:51 pm
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Randall Bart
United States
Granada Hills
California
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It should have been rethemed as Día del Piñata.
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  • Posted Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:07 pm
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20. Board Game: Mall World [Average Rating:5.66 Overall Rank:4800]
Gil Hova
United States
Newark
New Jersey
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Original Theme: Redrawing borders after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

New Theme: Building a mall.

Reason for change: The publisher and designer were worried that the original theme wouldn't sell.

Result: I can't stand the current theme. Building a mall seems like such an ordinary, bland, and uninteresting thing, whereas the end of the Cold War was historic. I had such a hard time getting this on the table that I think I'm not the only one.
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Luca Iennaco
Italy

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Definitely one of the more uninspiring themes ever.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 2:51 pm
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Christine Biancheria
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
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This game could benefit from a re-issue. It didn't end up with what the underlying game deserved.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:13 am
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Jeffrey Allers
Germany
Berlin
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I agree that the East German theme could have much more appeal, given its originality and historical significance. But the ORIGINAL theme was something like terra-forming, from what I remember, so I'm not sure how important the theme really was for Andrea when designing this game. It's mechanisms are the real innovation--too bad it did not have an innovative theme to match (maybe someday?).
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 9, 2010 11:51 am
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Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
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Quote:
Reason for change: The publisher and designer were worried that the original theme wouldn't sell.
And the irony is that the re-themed game game didn't sell either...
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  • Posted Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:25 pm
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Eric Brosius
Spain
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
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I didn't care much for the game to begin with, but a game about a mall is almost certainly a loser for me.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:35 am
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21. Board Game: Sword and Skull [Average Rating:5.50 Overall Rank:6299]
Big Woo
Scotland
state:
running out of space...
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Originally "Heroes and Villains", with a standard fantasy setting of goblins, giants and magic items.

Got its pirate theme to appeal to a wider audience.
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Marc B.
United States
Palm Bay
Florida
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Did you just call me wide?

arrrh
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 3:18 pm
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David Seddon
United Kingdom
Congleton
Cheshire
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Scratch one game, then!
 
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  • Posted Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:19 pm
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Ian Allen
United States
Madison
Alabama
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This one is like a short, short, crappy version of Talisman. If I still owned this I would rate this a 1.
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 2, 2006 7:00 pm
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James Moss
United States
Chesapeake
Virginia
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sshawmd wrote:
Sounds fun, plays like crap


Aye me hearty. Like the parrot poo slidin' down me back. Yar. arrrh
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  • Posted Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:08 pm
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Mike Ellis
Canada
Vernon
British Columbia
Gaming is a lifestyle choice.
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I NEVER want to see a pirate theme again.

Its difficult enough explaining new games to your friends when they keep getting the rules of different pirate games mixed up.

Enough already. I wish someone would just kill that stupid Johnny Depp movie craze too bad kiera is so hot...
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  • Posted Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:20 pm
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22. Board Game: Cave Troll [Average Rating:6.47 Overall Rank:915]
Michael Jordal
United States
Austin
Minnesota
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Original : Archaeologist searching for lost treasures
Published : Fantasy characters raiding a cave trolls lair

Reason : I assume to appeal more to FFG fantasy fan base
Result : I am a little unsure, but I think it probably plays well either way but appeals to a different crew the way it is.
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Clark D. Rodeffer
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
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The cave-in became a "troll" that can't move. The original sounds much more thematic.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 4:08 pm
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Sascha Hoppe
Germany
Braunschweig / City of Lions
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We definitely need more archaeology-themed games!
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  • Posted Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:20 am
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Chris Pimlott
United States
Cleveland
Ohio
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The game makes more sense when you realize the cave troll was supposed to be a cave-in. Otherwise it's a monster that disobeys all the rules for monsters, making things more confusing than they have to be.
 
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  • Posted Thu Mar 1, 2007 1:58 pm
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Scott Lewis
United States
Castle Rock
Colorado
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On the other hand, with the Second edition, the monster theme did allow for "alternates" for the Monsters/Heroes that may not have been as easy to pull off with an Archaeology theme.
 
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  • Posted Mon May 7, 2007 7:04 pm
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Andreas Johansson
Sweden
Linköping
I spent 200 GG and all I got was this lousy overtext!
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I spent 200 GG and all I got was this lousy overtext!
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I think I'd liked it better with the archaeology theme. It really doesnt feel very dungoneeringy.
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  • Posted Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:37 pm
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23. Board Game: Garten-Zwerge e.V. [Average Rating:5.81 Overall Rank:5236]
Raul Catalano
Italy
Pordenone
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Original : dog breeding
Published : gnome breeding

Reason : ?
Result : ?

The original theme obviously made much more sense; as many fellow BGGers already remarked, there is something very weird about the reproduction of all-male bearded gnomes.
In any case, I still prefer to play with cute gnomes than with barking dogs ...
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Dave Wilson
United States
Pleasanton
California
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It used to be dog breeding? I really wish it hadn't been rethemed. It'd be so much easier to find people willing to play it.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 7:14 pm
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J. Green
United States

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I agree, dog breeding would make a lot more sense. But luckily I found a copy and it makes a great addition to my Gnome/Dwarf game collection, along with Saboteur, Gnome Tribes, SilberZwerg, Dwarven Dig, and Abenteur im Wichtelwald, not to mention all the standard fantasy fare with gnomes and dwarves a la Tolkien.
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 8:32 pm
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Maik H
Germany
Frankfurt
Unspecified
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It always was about breeding gnomes, and nobody ever considered another theme for it. This is, in fact, one of the games where the design started with the theme and not the mechanics.

Strange how such rumours crop up, but as they say, "on the internet, nobody knows if you're a dog".
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  • Posted Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:02 am
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Iva Barisic
Croatia

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Female gnomes start to have beard when they are around 350 years old, so they say. I'll have to check Gnomes book and i'll let you know

PS: want this game so badly!
 
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  • Posted Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:50 pm
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Randall Bart
United States
Granada Hills
California
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Maik wrote:
It always was about breeding gnomes, and nobody ever considered another theme for it. This is, in fact, one of the games where the design started with the theme and not the mechanics.

Strange how such rumours crop up, but as they say, "on the internet, nobody knows if you're a dog".

So this game about breeding gnomes was actually designed by a dog. That explains a lot.
 
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  • Posted Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:13 pm
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Jeffrey Allers
Germany
Berlin
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bookgnome wrote:
I agree, dog breeding would make a lot more sense. But luckily I found a copy and it makes a great addition to my Gnome/Dwarf game collection, along with Saboteur, Gnome Tribes, SilberZwerg, Dwarven Dig, and Abenteur im Wichtelwald, not to mention all the standard fantasy fare with gnomes and dwarves a la Tolkien.


You also need "Waldschattenspiel" to make your gnome game collection complete
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 9, 2010 11:54 am
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24. Board Game: Modern Art [Average Rating:7.37 Overall Rank:112]
Leonardo Gonzalez
Mexico
Laredo
Texas
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Original : Greyhound race
Published : Buying and selling art

Reason : Hans in Gluck said the game was too simple
Result : The game was considerably changed but the base mechanism of the greyhound race did not change.

The original theme was a greyhound race game that lasted one round only. Hans in Gluck changed the theme and added more rounds. The whole process from the greyhound race to the modern art theme took 5 years to finish so this was not only a change of the theme.
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bob weaver
Estonia
tallinn
the 1st, 2nd, 3rd makes more sense now but i am curious how the bidding mechanic worked in the original; as how it is currently i don't see that making any sense.
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  • Posted Sat Sep 9, 2006 6:25 pm
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Brien Croteau
United States
Anacortes
WA
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Thinking about the dog race theme, I can kind of see that if each card played represents that dog moving 1/5 of the way around the track, and the players aren't bidding but rather buying bets that dog will eventually win, show or place.
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:35 pm
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Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
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Quote:
The original theme was a greyhound race game that lasted one round only. Hans in Gluck changed the theme and added more rounds. The whole process from the greyhound race to the modern art theme took 5 years to finish so this was not only a change of the theme.
And HiG already had a Greyhound game in their catalogue.
 
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  • Posted Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:28 pm
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25. Board Game: Honeybears [Average Rating:6.27 Overall Rank:2072]
Michael Van Biesbrouck
United States
Mountain View
California
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Apparently Knizia was quite unhappy about the honeybear theme change. Isn't it about to get another theme, too?
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W. Eric Martin
United States
Apex
North Carolina
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Yes, Face 2 Face Games is reprinting this game with a new theme, and it should appear in 2007. No word on the theme at this time.
 
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  • Posted Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:06 am
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Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
Victoria
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Hey, penguins can be cute too!
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:34 am
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Nick Fisk
United Kingdom
Stoke on Trent
Staffordshire
Come on the mighty Seagulls! So excitied about our first game at the Amex in August after 14 homeless years ....
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Erm ... ahem .... Here goes: "Come to Shire Games! If you've never been before, now is the perfect time to come along, as we've just moved to a huge new shop in Stoke-on-Trent! Come along, stay a while and play some games! "
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Yes ... It's Bucket Brigade.

Not fire engines though ... it's firemen carrying buckets racng up a ladder.

shake
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:46 am
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Ben George
United States
Houston
Texas
If even Knizia has no control over theme, what hope can any other designer have? Honeybears, yikes.
 
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  • Posted Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:18 am
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Jeffrey Allers
Germany
Berlin
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Tal der Abenteuer is basically a retheme of this title, although it also reworks the original, adding a few more elements that are typical of Knizia's other games.
 
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  • Edited Tue Nov 9, 2010 11:59 am
  • Posted Tue Nov 9, 2010 11:58 am
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Jonathan Degann
United States
Westlake Village
California
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Wooo. Of all the games to pick as having a better theme than the original, you choose Himalaya? From my one playing the game felt more abstract than usual. I had no idea WHAT I was doing - apart from moving around and collecting colors. The Himalayan theme, while certainly fresh, was truly bland.
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 8, 2006 6:35 am
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Ralph T
United States
Long Beach
California
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Interesting to see how many games on this list were not successful in part because of their retheme.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:52 pm
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Lewis Pulsipher
United States
Linden
North Carolina
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I'm wary of claims that "such and such" doesn't sell, whether it's SF games or RPGs or whatever. Example: "wargames don't sell in Germany". Boardgames, perhaps, because distribution is controlled by (elderly) shopowners who don't feel war themes are appropriate for family game shops. But I talked with the producer of a well-known Middle Earth video wargame who said it sold best in Germany (after the US). I'm told that in general video wargames sell just fine in Germany, then again it's not those boardgame shopowners who control distribution . . .
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:40 pm
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Andrea Angiolino
Italy
Rome
European Union
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Wings of War sold quite well in Germany, for a wargame. I was surprised... but it worked well.
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:55 pm
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Surya Van Lierde is pure Eurosnoot and proud of it!
Belgium
Gijzegem
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But that's not a REAL wargame, the grognards would argue
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  • Posted Sun Jan 1, 2012 10:03 am
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