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Euro vs. Ameri??
Steven Johnson
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I'm just getting back into serious gaming after a long hiatus devoted to computer gaming. In other words, my kids are old enough to leave a game set up for extended sessions, and my game room has a door to keep out the cat.

The terms "Eurogames" and "Ameritrash" are bandied about constantly. Could we have some definitions of the terms, with games used as examples?

Keep it friendly!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted On: 2006-11-05 08:56:31
Edited On: 2006-11-05 08:56:31

1. Puerto Rico [Average Rating:8.40 Overall Rank:1]
Tom Rosen
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Classic Example of a "Euro" game

Common features of "Euro" games:
-Little to no luck
-Victory points determine winner
-Theme is not very important
-Designer's name is very important
-Components made of wood
-90 minute playing time
6 Comments [Hide]
Posted On: 2006-11-05 13:30:21
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Dan Rosewater
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Quote:
Theme is not very important

I disagree. It it were so, then Eurogames were all abstract.
I cannot figure out to play Puerto Rico or Caylus without their theme. However I admit that there are Euros with a very thin theme (so called "pasted on") like RA, but that doesn't mean that all Euros are designed like that. On the other hand one could say that the game mechanism is important while this seems to fit on all games.
Tom Rosen
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What I meant Dan is that people often don't choose what "Euro" game to buy based on the theme. Sometimes you might, but often I choose what "Euro" game to buy based on the gameplay, mechanics, designer's name, awards, etc. It doesn't really matter to me if it's about Samurais in Japan, building pyramids in Egypt, the Italian Renaissance, or trains in the US. In contrast, wargamers especially seem to want to a game with a certain theme, like they'll want a game about WWII or one about the US Civil War, etc. There are obviously exceptions, it's just a general observation of mine.
Gláucio Reis
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I know I can be considered an exception, but I'm mostly an eurogamer, and theme is very important to me. Maybe that's the reason I don't care much about "Puerto Rico" (boring theme). I will always be more tempted to buy a game if it has a theme that interests me, especially fantasy and sci-fi. And I very much prefer beautiful plastic miniatures to dull wooden pieces.
Dan Rosewater
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0608
Tom I now understand what you like to emphasize.
A Eurogamer wants to buy a new game, so he is looking which one has good reviews, he is willing to accept a variety of themes as long as the game is good.
A Wargamer wants a game about the Battle of Stalingrad 1799 and nothing else. Historical accuracy is important. That's ok.
But with your examples Puerto Rico and Nexus Ops you compare Eurogames to Amerigames and not Eurogames to Wargames.
Why is the theme in Nexus Ops considered stronger than in Puerto Rico?
Paul Boos
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I know I look at theme when I buy a Eurogame - although I don't expec it to be necessarily carried trhough entirely in the bits (the playing pieces) and chrome (meaning the game mechnics). I added the abbreviated definitions so our friend who sarted this list wouldn't have to look them up...

I do think the Amerigames put theme on a bit more thick, but not a ton more - only wargames seem to do so.
Philip Thomas
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No player elimination is another general feature.
90 minutes is the most common playing time, but it can easily be shorter (Carcassonne) or longer (Die Macher).
2. Nexus Ops [Average Rating:7.27 Overall Rank:137]
Tom Rosen
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Classic Example of an "American" game

Common features of "American" games:
-Dice (more luck than "Euro" games)
-Theme is important to players
-Designer's name is not as important
-Components are often made of plastic, not wood
-Usually much longer playing times (although Nexus Ops is an exception)
-Often involve player elimination, which "euro" gams do not
4 Comments [Hide]
Posted On: 2006-11-05 13:33:06
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Gláucio Reis
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And here it is a case where I was totally seduced by the theme and miniatures. I had to buy this. I don't think it's a good example of "classic American game", though. It has a few features of eurogames: simple rules, no player elimination, resource management, victory points, catch-up mechanic (compensation for losing battles) and, as you mentioned, short playing time.
Rusty Ballinger
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And to hit the one point GSReis didn't :), this doesn't seem to me to be a very good example of a game where theme is important. We're what now? Mercenary corporations? This green stuff is what? Liquifungus forest? Oh, who cares, dude, let's fight!
Michael Debije
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In my mind, a 'classic' American game has no silly plastic. It has cardboard chits, with attack and defense values, or range factors, strength, whatever printed on them. Plastic comes from the more modern, easier games like Axis and Allies or Nexus Ops. I make it a practice not to purchase anything with silly plastic parts- the only exceptions I can think of are the old Warrior Knights and Blood Royale from Games Workshop, and I got Tyros (because Wallace made it) and Hellas (because it was 5 Euros).
Philip Thomas
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05060708
Yeah, this is the problem with using "American" rather than the other term.

The games you're tallking about are grognard games. They are mostly produced in america, of course. The "Ameribleep" movement is not so much about grognardgames, and more about the "more modern" games you mention.

Of course, Axis and Allies came out in the 80s. Its modern in comparison to 70s wargames, sure, but to a eurogamer it looks old.:)
3. Memoir '44 [Average Rating:7.70 Overall Rank:33]
Steven Johnson
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Which category would Memoir '44 fit in?
Plastic mini's
Simple rules with illustrations
Fast playing times
Luxurious components
Major designer name

It is a wargame, but definately not the James Dunnigan classic style of the 70's!
4 Comments [Hide]
Posted On: 2006-11-05 14:47:52
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Tom Rosen
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I can't say for sure because I've never played Memoir '44, but it seems to me like it definitely crosses over categories with elements of different styles of games combined into one.
Phillip Heaton
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The fact that is uses dice, and lots of them, seems to put it on the Amerigames side.