I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me!
Nick Pitman
Scotland
Glasgow
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Just in case you don't know where the title of this GeekList comes from here we go -

It's from a scene in the film The Princess Bride where the hero Westley challenges his enemy Vizzini to a Battle of Wits in which he (allegedly) places poison in one of two glasses of wine -

"Alright, where is the poison? The Battle of Wits has begun. Its ends when you decide and we both drink and find out who is right, and who is dead."

This leads to much agonising on Vizzini's part as to logically which glass will have the poison in.

"Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool--you would have counted on it--so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me!"

And so this goes on

"... so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you"

"....so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me."


This GeekList is dedicated to games which involve that kind of double-think. "If you do x then I should do y ... but if you think I will do y you will do z so I should not do y ... but if you think I think this then you will actually do x after all so I should do .... ARGHH!" And so you tie yourself in knots.

I love games like this.

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1. Board Game: Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation [Average Rating:7.24 Overall Rank:272]
Nick Pitman
Scotland
Glasgow
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So this is what made me first think of doing this GeekList.

It has "The wine in front of me" element on two counts.

1. The placement and movement of the characters.
"It would be too obvious to put the Balrog in Moria so that is not the Balrog... but you will expect me to think that so it is the Balrog... but..."
"Those two characters are moving up the board together so it must be Frodo and Merry... but that would be too dangerous so it is a decoy... or maybe they want me to think it's a decoy..."

2. In playing cards during combat
"If I play the 5 then I can win this, but if they play their Magic they can get the 6 back and they win.. so I should play retreat, but if they play the Eye of Sauron then it will negate my retreat and they will win... maybe I should just use my 1 and accept defeat, but if they do the same then I could beat them with a 3 ... ARGHH!"
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2. Board Game: Citadels [Average Rating:7.19 Overall Rank:215]
Nick Pitman
Scotland
Glasgow
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In the two player game you can have a real Battle of Wits on your hands;

"So when I passed the cards to them both the Assassin and the Bishop where there and they are gone now. They have a lot of blue buildings so the Bishop would make sense.. I should take the Thief and rob the Bishop... but maybe this is a decoy, they have taken the Assassin and will kill the Thief... I should take the Warlord and discard the Thief thus fooling them... or should I?"
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3. Board Game: Diamant [Average Rating:6.70 Overall Rank:695]
 
Nick Pitman
Scotland
Glasgow
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In Diamant we have many glasses of wine but you don't know how many contain poison. (OK, I'm getting a bit carried away with the analogy here.)

For example;

"There are a few gems on the way back out now and a couple of dangers have been drawn. If I leave now then it will be a pretty tidy haul... but if several others think the same and we all leave at once then we will each end up with a pittance... but I can see we can all see we are thinking the same thing... therefor they wont leave so I can... but what if they have this idea too..."
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4. Board Game: Piranha Pedro [Average Rating:6.23 Overall Rank:2266]
Tom Rosen
United States
Arlington
Virginia
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Great movie, great line, and great idea for a list

Piranha Pedro was the first game that came to mind (maybe because I played it on BSW recently and also just ordered a copy of the game), and I think it fits pretty well here. If you expect your opponent to move a certain direction then your move becomes pretty obvious, but if they know what you expect and do something different then you'll need to change what you do, but if they think that you'll know that they expect them to do something different then they can do the original move since you won't expect it and then won't do the obvious counter-move even though you could have, but if you know that they'll think that you'll know that.... errr... ummm... I think I confused myself laugh ... I'll just hope there isn't poison in both choices.
 
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5. Board Game: Puerto Rico [Average Rating:8.14 Overall Rank:5]
Ivan Hanley
Scotland
Glasgow
Strathclyde
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Nick, how could you not include this after Wed night!!

Puerto Rico has all the classic double and tripple guessing. Often my brain comes close to meltdown trying to second-guess the other players.
 
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6. Board Game: The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow [Average Rating:6.97 Overall Rank:450]
Got two game tables and a microphone
United States
New York
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Clearly a game, where this type of thinking can hang you, or get you eaten or shot.

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7. Board Game: Ghosts! [Average Rating:6.40 Overall Rank:1689]
Got two game tables and a microphone
United States
New York
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I would imagine this is one of the classic examples of this type of game. Simple, elegant, and perfect for bluffing. Although, there is no building up a poison tolerance in this game...
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8. Board Game: Cloud 9 [Average Rating:6.48 Overall Rank:1245]
Got two game tables and a microphone
United States
New York
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This game has more bluffing than Diamant (same game of chicken element). In Cloud 9, all of the cards being played are in players hands, instead of being turned over in Diamant.
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9. Board Game: Autoscooter [Average Rating:6.22 Overall Rank:4017]
Ivan Hanley
Scotland
Glasgow
Strathclyde
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This is a simultaneous movement game that simulates the carnage of fairground bumper cars. It causes severe brain meltdown as you try to avoid (or bump into) your moving opponents. It's hilarious fun with the right group and deserves a place on this excellent list.
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10. Board Game: Hoity Toity [Average Rating:6.56 Overall Rank:907]
Mike Bauerlein
United States
Mesa
Arizona
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This is the game I immediately thought of when I saw your list. This kind of double-think is not my particular cup of tea, but if it's yours, I'm pretty sure you'll love this game.
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11. Board Game: Mall of Horror [Average Rating:6.71 Overall Rank:840]
Steve Berger
United Kingdom
Sevenoaks
Kent
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So he is moving there is he? Well, he's seen the dice, so he knows where the Zombies are going...
Now is he moving there because it is safe?
Who is he moving there?
Does he want me to go there?
Will he go there, and then just hide?
If we all go there, and Zombies are there, who will vote to save me?
Maybe I shouldn't go there - this could be a trap.
If I move there, who should I move? Who else is going to move there?

OK, you get the idea. Great game.
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12. Board Game: Diplomacy [Average Rating:7.09 Overall Rank:361]
Andy
United Kingdom
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Hmmmm! I know Nick plays Diplomacy online, so why did he omit the ultimate double-think game of all time from his list? If you can answer that question then you will always drink from the right glass!
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13. Board Game: El Grande [Average Rating:7.83 Overall Rank:26]
Dave Lartigue
United States
Springfield
Massachusetts
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There is a card in El Grande in which each player secretly chooses a region and that region scores. Simple enough. Except: if more than one player chooses a specific region, that region doesn't score. Sometimes it's obvious which region will score for you, and if someone wants to hold you back, you may have a problem. Also, if a good region for you is also a good region for someone else, you have a problem. El Grande is a good game, and this moment in it is one of the best.
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14. Board Game: Shipwrecked [Average Rating:5.71 Overall Rank:5569]
Ben Harris
United States
Beaverton
Oregon
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Advanced rock, paper, scissors. Always makes me over-think my play.

Thanks for the great list.
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15. Board Game: Xe Queo! [Average Rating:6.46 Overall Rank:3177]
Craig Blumer
United States
Oshkosh
Wisconsin
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Bluffing is the game. Both players secretly pick a color. On a turn the player can move any of the 7 pawns toward the ring or guess what the other player's color is. The winner gets his/her color of pawn to the ring or guesses correctly their opponent's color.

It leads exactly to the kind of think, double think, rethink, and counter think described in the introduction.
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16. Board Game: Vector [Average Rating:6.60 Overall Rank:6651]
Rob Bartel
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
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A little known but classic example of this. Also a very good game in it's own right.

The basic idea is that there's a single pawn that everyone is trying to control using cards. Everyone reveals the number of spaces that they are going to move the pawn (1-3) but the direction of movement (4 orthagonal, 4 diagonal) is hidden and revealed simultaneously. Each player gains or loses points according to the space they end up moving the pawn to and there are some special spaces as well. A lot of bluff and double bluff.

Sadly, it's long out of print.
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17. Board Game: Wings of War: Famous Aces [Average Rating:6.89 Overall Rank:553] [Average Rating:6.89 Unranked]
Eric Dodd
New Zealand
Martinborough
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Here's a different kind of example. You choose three moves from a set of cards consistent with your aeroplane type every round. As you play more games and see more decks you'll get a better idea of what each plane can do, leading to the "he knows that I know that he knows that I know..." kind of situation.

When you're tailing another plane he has to show you his first card, but will he then carry on with the logical move from that card or change for something unexpected? You start over-expecting the sequence leading to an Immelman turn, but that could also be a bluff... and while you are concentrating on your helpless quarry, watch out for the other enemy planes or anti-aircaft fire...
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18. Board Game: Mr. Jack [Average Rating:7.12 Overall Rank:288]
Tim K.
United States
Seattle
Washington
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The latest in the 2-player "outguessing your opponent" games.

Like LOTR: The Confrontation there's lots of double-guessing here and it gets worse as you get to know the game and a regular opponent. The pain usually comes in the decision of what character(s) to take next in a round given that you'll be leaving your opponent with the other characters.

Delicious! thumbsup
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19. Board Game: Age of Mythology: The Boardgame [Average Rating:6.18 Overall Rank:1826]
Ryan M.
Canada
Regina
Saskatchewan
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I had to add this one. The combat is what causes this game to drag so much (especially near the end). It is precisely because of the double-thinking involved.

shake
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20. Board Game: RoboRally [Average Rating:7.20 Overall Rank:224]
Aaron Gelb
United States
Los Angeles
California
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With pre-planning your moves before you actually move your little robot, and the battling between robots, you have to think about which move your opponent will be choosing in what order, or else pushing, avoiding, or shooting that opponent will be really hard, unless you get really lucky.
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21. Board Game: Edel, Stein & Reich [Average Rating:6.95 Overall Rank:801]
Dave VanderArk
United States
Coopersville
Michigan
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Revised version of Basari (someone else can put in that game), this one is a great game of think/double think, with a barter mechanism to resolve ties that can make your head swim.
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22. Board Game: For Sale [Average Rating:7.21 Overall Rank:219]
Michael R
United Kingdom
Glasgow
Lanarkshire
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They all know I have the 30. It would be crazy for them to play a good card so why don't I just play the 26. Or do they know that's the type of thing I would do?
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23. Board Game: Merchants of the Middle Ages [Average Rating:6.85 Overall Rank:992]
N/A
Market adjustment phase. If one of the goods I'm carrying is one or two from the top of the valuation, I want to move it up, right? But if one or more of the other players move it up and I do too, it'll crash. Perhaps I can leave my best good alone and the other players will move it up for me...

Come to think of it, this instance of doublethink is what killed the game for me. I hate doublethink.
 
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24. Board Game: Civil War in Ancient Japan [Average Rating:6.50 Unranked]
Tim Comfort
United States
Littleton
Colorado
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This game doesn't really fit the criteria, but I had a sudden urge to add a land war in Asia.
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25. Board Game: Meuterer [Average Rating:6.99 Overall Rank:527]
Dave Lartigue
United States
Springfield
Massachusetts
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Don't know how I didn't think of this before! There's a ton of bluffing and second-guessing in this one, especially when you play with the pirate.
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