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Spiel des Jahres Face-Off: Round 1
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Recommend
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I recently heard someone (who I shall allow to remain anonymous) mention that they felt Zooloretto was their least favorite of the SdJ winners. Which had me wondering - if comparing the games directly, which Spiel des Jahres winner would BGG choose as the _best_ of the lot?

There have now been 29 SdJ winners, so we'll give the three highest rated winners (El Grande, Settlers, and Ticket To Ride) a bye. So to start, we need to weed 26 SdJ winners down to 13.

For each pair, please give a thumbs up to the SdJ winner you prefer. Please feel welcome to comment on _why_ as well - I'm sure, from a historical perspective, the comments will be the most interesting aspect - but only thumbs will be counted.

The results will be taken, and the next round started, on Friday, August 10th.
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1. Board Game: Carcassonne [Average Rating:7.46 Overall Rank:87]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 2001 SdJ winner, and #4 seed, Carcassonne...
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Jeroen van der Valk
Netherlands
Gouda
Zuid Holland
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This was my first modern Eurogame, and the game that started me back in boardgaming 4 years ago after a ten year hiatus. It's offspring is certainly better, but the blue box will always have a place in my collection.
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:15 pm
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2. Board Game: Enchanted Forest [Average Rating:5.81 Overall Rank:3088]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1982 SdJ winner, and #29 seed, Enchanted Forest?
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Chris Bailey
United States
Broomfield
Colorado
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What do you think of this game Joe? Have you played it? I'm not familiar with it but if it won the SDJ...
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 5:12 pm
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Mike B
Netherlands
Utrecht
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What Randy said. I've never played Enchanted Forest but I'm pretty sure I'll prefer it to Carcassone.

So thumbsup for Enchanted Forest.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:10 pm
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Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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ixnay66 wrote:
What do you think of this game Joe? Have you played it? I'm not familiar with it but if it won the SDJ...


It's a decent little game - there's a memory element, as a result of which it often is considered a children's game, but it's a fine family game.

I prefer Carcassonne, but not by any huge amount...
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:41 pm
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Stephen Groves
New Zealand
Auckland
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Yes, this is definitely more of a kids game than we see in recent SDJ. It involves luck and uses a die which don't seem to be in favour with "true gamers". However, it is a lot of fun for anyone who plays it and doesn't outstay its welcome. Both are great games and both deserve merit. It is hard to go up against Carcassonne though as that is a great bridging game between light games and the more thinkie ones(the greatest I've found).
 
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  • Edited Wed Aug 8, 2007 11:28 pm
  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 11:27 pm
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Jon W
United States
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sevorges wrote:
However, it is a lot of fun for anyone who plays it and doesn't outstay its welcome.

I like the game just fine, but it definitely outstays its welcome from time to time. The "land on you and knock you back to start" rule can create a really annoying series of unproductive moves.
 
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  • Posted Thu Aug 9, 2007 4:04 am
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3. Board Game: Tikal [Average Rating:7.40 Overall Rank:107]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1999 SdJ winner, and #5 seed, Tikal...
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James Davis
Australia
Canberra
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anything is better than rummikub
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:46 pm
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Mike B
Netherlands
Utrecht
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thumbsup for Tikal.
Beautiful board & parts. Nice gateway for gamer's games. Although I prefer Java in the series.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:13 pm
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James Davis
Australia
Canberra
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Tatsu wrote:
jamesdavis wrote:
anything is better than rummikub

Untrue. Rummikub is one of the un-sung games that gets overlooked a lot just because its available commercially everywhere. This game rewards quick and clever pattern matching. I think I enjoy Tikal better, but Rummikub is not a bad game.


Its just skip bo with tiles.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 6:15 am
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Jeroen van der Valk
Netherlands
Gouda
Zuid Holland
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One of my favorite all-time games.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:16 pm
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Carl Parsons
United States
Carrollton
Texas
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GameMasterX0 wrote:
Anything, perhaps, except for this beautiful but analysis-paralyzing game.


I've experienced considerably more AP while playing Rummikub than Tikal.

Not by me. (edit): The AP that is.
 
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  • Edited Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:42 pm
  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:19 pm
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4. Board Game: Rummikub [Average Rating:6.19 Overall Rank:1314]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1980 SdJ winner, and #28 seed, Rummikub?
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Randy Cox
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South Carolina
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I've never played Rummikub, but I have played Tikal, which explains why I voted for Rummikub.
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:50 pm
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James Davis
Australia
Canberra
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Randy Cox wrote:
I've never played Rummikub, but I have played Tikal, which explains why I voted for Rummikub.


I really suggest giving Rummikub a go Randy. Its best played quick and not with only 2 players.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:19 pm
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Huzonfirst
United States
Manassas
Virginia
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jamesdavis wrote:
Randy Cox wrote:
I've never played Rummikub, but I have played Tikal, which explains why I voted for Rummikub.


I really suggest giving Rummikub a go Randy. Its best played quick and not with only 2 players.

That's funny, I was just going to say the same thing about Tikal!

Tikal all the way to the finals, baby!
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 8:56 pm
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Dave VanderArk
United States
Coopersville
Michigan
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I almost voted "none of the above." I will play both games, but I don't particularly care for either of them.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:23 pm
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5. Board Game: Torres [Average Rating:7.24 Overall Rank:184]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 2000 SdJ winner, and #6 seed, Torres...
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6. Board Game: Auf Achse [Average Rating:6.34 Overall Rank:1358]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1987 SdJ winner, and #27 seed, Auf Achse?
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Dave VanderArk
United States
Coopersville
Michigan
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Auf Achse is one of my top ten games of all time. The perfect mix of route planning and balancing luck and strategy with risk and reward. As I've stated elsewhere, it's proof that an economic game with a roll and move mechanism and random event cards can be an excitingly playable game.

Sadly it doesn't stand a chance in this type of tourney because it has been out of print and hard to find for quite some time. It's so much more fun to play than Torres, which is enjoyable if you like doing math for fun. Which I don't.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:26 pm
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Mike B
Netherlands
Utrecht
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Never spotted this one, but I'd love to try it. But I do enjoy Torres quite a plastic bit.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:17 pm
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Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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David Vander Ark wrote:
Sadly it doesn't stand a chance in this type of tourney because it has been out of print and hard to find for quite some time. It's so much more fun to play than Torres, which is enjoyable if you like doing math for fun. Which I don't.


I like doing math for fun, but still prefer Auf Achse, FWIW...
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:42 pm
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7. Board Game: Thurn and Taxis [Average Rating:7.19 Overall Rank:178]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 2006 SdJ winner, and #7 seed, Thurn & Taxis...
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8. Board Game: Focus [Average Rating:6.58 Overall Rank:1316]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1981 SdJ winner, and #26 seed, Focus?
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9. Board Game: Alhambra [Average Rating:7.05 Overall Rank:241]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 2003 SdJ winner, and #8 seed, Alhambra...
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Antonio B-D
Spain
Madrid
Madrid
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I haven't played the other game, so I won't vote, but Alhambra is one of the best (or the best) of the so-called Eurogames.

Then again, if Republic of Rome or Junta were playing there would simply be no contest.... (and I am not even talking about wargames)
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:56 pm
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Dave VanderArk
United States
Coopersville
Michigan
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This game comes with material to play with 5 or 6 players, but should never be played with either of those numbers.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:27 pm
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Carl Parsons
United States
Carrollton
Texas
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Alhamblah
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 9:21 pm
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10. Board Game: Dampfross [Average Rating:6.44 Overall Rank:1528]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1984 SdJ winner, and #25 seed, Dampfross?
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Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
South Carolina
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I just can't figure out the fun in this one. I purchased it (and even convinced people to play it--sorry about that) solely because it had the SdJ seal of approval. But it was downright painful.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:52 pm
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Arne Hoffmann
Germany
Munich
Germany
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Randy,

it is the same with me. Purchased it back in 1984 as it had the SdJ-sign but found it more than painful to play.

Dampfross actually managed to manifest a hate of railroad games in me. I did not want to play any game where you'd have to build railroad tracks and am SOOO glad that I jumped my shadow and tried Age of Steam, which soon became one of my favourite games.

Got good use from my copy last year when I printed my home-made "Hammer of the Scots" on the Dampfross-board.

Greetings

- Arne -
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 11:53 am
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11. Board Game: Liar's Dice [Average Rating:6.99 Overall Rank:286]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1993 SdJ winner, and #9 seed, Liar's Dice...
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Mark C
United States
Ypsilanti
Michigan
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A 1993 winner.....with a BGG publish date of 1974....that actually goes back, to what, the eighteenth century?

I think the Geek should list this as public domain since this game goes back 100+ years and it seems silly to credit some publisher with it.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 8:55 pm
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12. Board Game: Café International [Average Rating:6.34 Overall Rank:1173]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1989 SdJ winner, and #24 seed, Cafe International?
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13. Board Game: Um Reifenbreite [Average Rating:6.94 Overall Rank:481]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1992 SdJ winner, and #10 seed, Um Reifenbreite...
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Jeroen van der Valk
Netherlands
Gouda
Zuid Holland
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I just love this game, and play it way too little...
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:17 pm
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Stephen Groves
New Zealand
Auckland
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This is a close one. I own this and my friend owns the other and begrudgingly I'd say I prefer Heimlich (although he is the one who always wants to play Um Reifenbreite). I guess it's a case of the grass is greener...
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 11:49 pm
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14. Board Game: Heimlich & Co. [Average Rating:6.42 Overall Rank:989]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1986 SdJ winner, and #23 seed, Heimlich & Co.?
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Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
South Carolina
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Ooh. This one is tough. There was a time that I'd've given the nod to Um Reifenbreite, but that game just takes longer than I'm usually willing to devote to one game nowadays.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:53 pm
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Just call me Erik
United States
Waldorf
Maryland
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Heimlich is, possibly, the perfect filler game. It's wonderful.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:51 pm
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15. Board Game: Zooloretto [Average Rating:6.96 Overall Rank:291]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 2007 SdJ winner, and #11 seed, Zooloretto...
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Jon W
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I think this is a really weak winner. Maybe not the weakest, but...very disappointing, esp. considering the decent field this year.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:06 pm
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16. Board Game: Wacky Wacky West [Average Rating:6.35 Overall Rank:1249]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1991 SdJ winner, and #22 seed, Drunter & Drüber?
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Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
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Age discrimination is going to kill this great game, I fear.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:54 pm
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Simon Hilsdorf
Germany
Mannheim
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Randy Cox wrote:
Age discrimination is going to kill this great game, I fear.


Looks like age discrimination is a theme on this list - almost all games are paired old - new. While one still can rate from a todays perspective I think it's kind of 'unfair' towards the older games.

When some of the game came out they were innovative or at least new to the broader audience.

Things like hidden characters (Heimlich & Co), Clay-guessing-games (Barbarossa), an abstract game (Focus), crayon railroad games (Dampfross), many vs. one (Scotland Yard) or storytelling (Sherlock Holmes) were definitely something new and cool when they came out back in the days and you didn't have much stuff to compare it with. Nowadays many old mechanics have been succesfully worked into new (better) games...

Anyway, games like Auf Achse, Sagaland, Barbarossa and Drunter & Drüber have been played in my family for several years and proved to be great family games.

Simon
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:25 pm
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Dave VanderArk
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I'm not voting for either of these because:
a) I haven't played Zooloretto
b) I don't care much for Drunter & Druber because every time we play it the kids end up fighting.
 
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  • Edited Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:29 pm
  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:29 pm
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Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Zopper-Alf wrote:
Randy Cox wrote:
Age discrimination is going to kill this great game, I fear.


Looks like age discrimination is a theme on this list - almost all games are paired old - new. While one still can rate from a todays perspective I think it's kind of 'unfair' towards the older games.


I agree, though at least here the lower rated games will have _some_ chance, as all that's needed is a preference, not outrating the newer game with fewer ratings...
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:46 pm
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Simon Hilsdorf
Germany
Mannheim
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That's absolutely no problem Joe. I don't take this list too serious.
It was more meant as an general comment about how games changed. I played all SdJs except from Niagara and most of them when they came out. They all were definitely good or excellent games compared to the rest of the market and even more compared to your own horizon back then.

It's hard to judge games on what was new back then and not compare them to todays stadards - and why would you even not do that. Today you have the choice over several games with the same theme or similar mechanics...

Anyway, the SdJ was always an easy pick for me or my parents and we definitely enjoyed the games back then and I still enjoy most of them now too.

Simon
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:53 pm
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17. Board Game: Elfenland [Average Rating:6.79 Overall Rank:433]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1998 SdJ winner, and #12 seed, Elfenland...
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J. David Koch
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
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thumbsup Have to go with Elfenland here.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:19 pm
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Karl
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
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I absolutely love this game, especially with Elfengold. I don't think that I've ever played this game and not had a good time.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:09 pm
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18. Board Game: Barbarossa [Average Rating:6.49 Overall Rank:1110]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1988 SdJ winner, and #21 seed, Barbarossa?
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Yoki Erdtman
Sweden
Södertälje
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Since Barbarossa is one of my 8-year old daughter's favorites, so I'll give it the nod. I hate the name and the box though, but the game's neat.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:19 pm
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19. Board Game: Niagara [Average Rating:6.59 Overall Rank:637]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 2005 SdJ winner, and #13 seed, Niagara...
57 
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20. Board Game: The Mississippi Queen [Average Rating:6.43 Overall Rank:910]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1997 SdJ winner, and #20 seed, Mississippi Queen?
77 
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Karl
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
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I enjoy Mississippi Queen, as The Black Rose, but most of my friends aren't crazy about it.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:10 pm
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Just call me Erik
United States
Waldorf
Maryland
designer
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theconcerned wrote:
I enjoy Mississippi Queen, as The Black Rose, but most of my friends aren't crazy about it.


My group doesn't seem to want to give Mississippi Queen the love.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:54 pm
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21. Board Game: Hare & Tortoise [Average Rating:6.70 Overall Rank:579]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1979 SdJ winner, and #14 seed, Hare & Tortoise...
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Stven Carlberg
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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Hase und Igel has been one of my favorites for years, but I'd rather be looking at a picture of one of the older editions from the era when the game actually did win SdJ and had not yet been watered down to the strength of Kool-Aid by allowing a lettuce to be chewed by the roll of a die from any position in the race except first.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:04 pm
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22. Board Game: Scotland Yard [Average Rating:6.53 Overall Rank:705]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 1983 SdJ winner, and #19 seed, Scotland Yard?
75 
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Huzonfirst
United States
Manassas
Virginia
designer
For the second time in five years, the G-Men are Super Bowl champs! Woo hoo!!!!!
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Interesting matchup. Two of the more "thinky" games on the list.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 5:23 pm
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James Davis
Australia
Canberra
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A real classic this game. Any parent should have this for their kids. And it still plays great when playing with other adults.
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 7:21 pm
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Darryl Boone
Canada
Coquitlam
BC
Reading your recent posts has been like dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
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I've owned this twice and lost it twice. As much as I really enjoy this game, I just can't bring myself to buy it a third time. Everyone I've ever introduced it to strongly dislikes it.

(Hmm, maybe that's why they've gone missing? Sabotage!)
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 4:53 pm
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23. Board Game: Hoity Toity [Average Rating:6.60 Overall Rank:654]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1990 SdJ winner, and #15 seed, Adel Verpflichtet...
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Huzonfirst
United States
Manassas
Virginia
designer
For the second time in five years, the G-Men are Super Bowl champs! Woo hoo!!!!!
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I wonder how many votes this one will lose because of the name it's listed as in the database?
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 5:28 pm
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J. David Koch
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
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thumbsup Adel Verpflichtet
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:20 pm
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Randy Cox
United States
Clemson
South Carolina
designer
1024x768 works just fine - Don't Wide the Site!
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The Back Alley gets no respect.
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I have always considered Adel Verpflichtet to be THE German Game. It was the first one I remember being played with any regularity (when Avalon Hill produced it) and it got a lot of wargamers I know (now mostly ex-wargamers) to play "lighter" stuff. Quite the pedigree.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:52 pm
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Josh Adelson
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
Hello, can you run as fast as me? I hope not, because if you catch me I will thrash you!
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You could call this game Chipped Beef on Toast and I'd still prefer it to almost any other SdJ winner.
 
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  • Posted Thu Aug 9, 2007 5:38 am
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24. Board Game: Villa Paletti [Average Rating:6.54 Overall Rank:786]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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...or the 2002 SdJ winner, and #18 seed, Villa Paletti?
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25. Board Game: Manhattan [Average Rating:6.71 Overall Rank:545]
Joe Huber

Westborough
Massachusetts
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Do you prefer the 1994 SdJ winner, and #16 seed, Manhattan...

(For those who don't wish to bother looking to the next page unless necessary, the game Manhattan is matched up with is Sherlock Holmes, Consulting Detective.)
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Firestone
United States
Northern
Colorado
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I'd participate, but there's not one of these pairs where I've played both games.
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  • Posted Tue Aug 7, 2007 4:31 pm
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Huzonfirst
United States
Manassas
Virginia
designer
For the second time in five years, the G-Men are Super Bowl champs! Woo hoo!!!!!
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Randy Cox wrote:
I just don't see it. Personal tastes aside, I see only one particularly bad game here (Dampfross), and I'm hoping that rules were just changed somewhere along the way (maybe after it won SdJ) which turned it into the quagmire it is today.

All in all, just about every one of these games would not be a problem to sit down and play with any crowd. (Note: haven't played Zooloretto and haven't ever enjoyed any of that designer's games, so there may be two stinkers in here).

I'd go even further. I've never played Dampfross, but since it was elected to the Counter Hall of Fame (well, Railway Rivals, its progenitor, was), I can't believe it to be objectively bad. And I'm no big fan of Zooloretto (it only seemed to be a marginal improvement on Coloretto, a game which is little more than a pleasant filler to me), but the game works and should find a sizable audience. Really, the only possible "bad" SdJ winner I've tried is Niagara, but enough people like that game that I'm willing to believe that I just had a bad session of it. The bar for "not being objectively bad" isn't a terribly high one, but I'd say all these games clear it easily.

Now that's not to say that I play lots of SdJ winners. There's only four of them I'm enthusiastic about (Tikal, Barbarossa, H&T, and T&T) and another half dozen or so I don't mind playing. But I can't say I've ever played one that I thought was bad.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:22 pm
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Josh Adelson
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
Hello, can you run as fast as me? I hope not, because if you catch me I will thrash you!
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I think Zooloretto is getting a ridiculous backlash effect, perhaps because of Yspahan's fanbase being a disgruntled, unruly mob. Sure it's only a marginal improvement over Coloretto, but it's a wide margin. The game is fun, purely and simply fun. It's not rocket science, thank God, nor is it Rocketville, doubly thank God!
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  • Posted Thu Aug 9, 2007 5:42 am
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Jim Payne
United Kingdom
Brighton
East Sussex
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An interesting thing to do would be to compare the BGG rankings of the SDJ winners with the BGG ranking of the nominees for the same year. In many cases BGGers think the wrong game won.
 
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  • Posted Thu Aug 9, 2007 1:40 pm
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Ben Lott
United States
Mason
Michigan
It's time to play the music, It's time to light the lights...
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Wocka Wocka Wocka!!
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What's up! 158 votes on a single entry but the list as a whole only has 29 thumbs? How are we gonna keep this list "Hot" if we don't give it the recommendations? Just my opinion, but I think if you're going to participate by voting you should be recommending the list to others.
 
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  • Edited Thu Aug 9, 2007 7:27 pm
  • Posted Thu Aug 9, 2007 2:18 pm
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