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Agricola: I know this reminds me of something...
Doug Faust
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I had the fortune of playing Agricola with Zev Schlasinger at UberCon this past weekend. Apparently Z-Man Games is in preliminary talks to bring this game to the States, big props to them for that.

Anyway, I know a lot of folks here are excited about Agricola and are interested in more information about how the game plays. I thought I'd do something slightly different: I'm going to compare the mechanics of the game to other more familiar games and describe them in that context. It's easier to wrap my head around it that way, at least.

For those who have also played Agricola, feel free to add to my list.
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1. Board Game: Caylus [Average Rating:7.97 Overall Rank:11]
Doug Faust
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Probably the easiest comparison is to Caylus, for the worker-placement mechanic. Each player has a number of farming family members (ie, workers). Beginning with the start player, each player places a family member on a spot on the communal board, which lets them take an action (unlike Caylus, the action happens immediately). Once the spot on the board is filled, no one else can use it for the rest of that turn.

Unlike Caylus, it is possible to increase the number of family members you have (something about "birds and bees" or somesuch...). However, this is a multistep process that isn't even possible until midgame. Obviously it's very much worth it when you can do it. You start with 2 and can end up with 5 (and that's very difficult to accomplish).
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Iain K
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This aspect reminded me of Leonardo de Vinci, from the standpoint that the creation of new workers/children was a major point of interaction between players in what amounted to little more than a game of multi-player solitaire.

For example, taking the action to have a baby, results in anyone else wanting to have a baby to have to wait until the next turn. I saw the same happen for certain key resources like wood, necessary to expand your house prior to having a baby, and build fences prior to acquiring animals.

The major difference here w.r.t. Leonardo is in the way that multiple players can bid on actions, and they all get the action at an increasing cost. In Agricola, it's first come first served (with the exception of the effects of some of the occupations IIRC).
 
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  • Edited Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:49 pm
  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:47 pm
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Doug Faust
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I don't know, what really defines the experience for me in Leonardo is multiple apprentices being able to be placed in the same spot. Agricola doesn't have this at all. Maybe a more apt comparison would be Age of Empires III, where you start with a certain number of workers, but can gain additional ones through good play.
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:29 am
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Iain K
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Fair enough
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:38 am
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Timo
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It is worth mentioning imho, that the designer (Uwe Rosenberg) himself spoke of Caylus as a source of inspiration - so it's only natural that you mention it here first.

Source (in german): http://www.cliquenabend.de/index.php?page=artikel&artikel=uw...
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:28 pm
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2. Board Game: Puerto Rico [Average Rating:8.26 Overall Rank:3]
Doug Faust
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Like Puerto Rico, Agricola has individual player boards. This boards start out empty except for two house spaces, and you're free to fill it up as you please with either fields, pastures, or house extensions. Keep in mind, however, that your pastures need to be adjacent to other pastures (likewise for house spaces), and stuff can't be moved around once placed.

The "buildings" in Puerto Rico are somewhat analogous to the cards, and are played in front of you beside your player board. These cards typically give you some special benefit for the rest of the game.
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Crazy Bob
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..,more like Princes of Florence.
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:14 pm
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Iain K
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True, much more like Princes, given that the items you add to the board can not be moved in the remained of the game.
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:41 pm
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3. Board Game: Magic: The Gathering [Average Rating:7.34 Overall Rank:134]
Doug Faust
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These cards are one thing that sets Agricola apart from many Eurogames. There are over 300 cards included in the game, each of which has different and sometimes complex text. I only had the opportunity to play with the "easy" deck because the "complex" and "interactive" decks had not yet been translated. Still, these cards defined much of your strategy throughout the game, and you could often build CCG-esque "card combos" that could turn into great economic engines.

The distribution of the cards is also something I haven't seen. Each player receives 14 cards, 7 "occupation" cards and 7 "minor improvement" cards. Additionally, there are 10 "major improvement" cards that are available to everyone. There is no way of getting additional cards during the game! So you'll only see a very small portion of those 300+ cards during any particular game, providing for a lot of replay value. I'll have to trust that they did enough playtesting to eliminate unbalanced card combos though...
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Iain K
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The fact that you never draw new cards from a deck makes this entirely different for CCGs. But you are right, the shear number of cards is unlike any other game I can think of outside of Card Drive Games (Like 1960) - which again are based on drawing cards again and again.

Quote:
I'll have to trust that they did enough playtesting to eliminate unbalanced card combos though...


This is one of my great worries with the game. There are so many possible combinations that I don't believe it is possible that the game could be play tested to balance all the possible combinations of occupations alone for example. On the flip side, maybe the occupations don't make a lick of difference, and the game will prove to be all about something other than the cards. For example, it may prove that maximizing the birth of children (ie creation of additional workers) will render all other strategies mute. Each child gives you an additional action each turn. Period. I'm not sure someone with 3 family members can beat someone with 5, regardless of what cards they were dealt at the start of the game.

Only time and hundreds of us playing will tell.

 
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  • Edited Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:40 pm
  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:39 pm
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citizen k wrote:
...
Quote:
I'll have to trust that they did enough playtesting to eliminate unbalanced card combos though...


This is one of my great worries with the game. There are so many possible combinations that I don't believe it is possible that the game could be play tested to balance all the possible combinations of occupations alone for example...

I'm not too worried about this. There wasn't any way to test all the possible alien combos for Cosmic Encounter, and we're entering the 4th decade of our kiss love-fest kiss with CE and celebrating with another reprint.
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 7:49 am
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Jeroen van der Valk
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On the back of the rules the more than 120 playtesters are mentioned by name, testing for a period of well over a year. This sort of helped alleviate my "worries" on this point.

As for the family strategy, I don't think it'll be a definite winner for you if you go for five, but I do think it'll be a definite loser if you stay at two...
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 8:10 am
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4. Board Game: Puerto Rico [Average Rating:8.26 Overall Rank:3]
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I'll mention Puerto Rico again because I can't think of another game offhand that does this. In Agricola, many of the available actions become more enticing if no one takes them. For example, there's a "take 2 wood" spot which simply accumulates; if no one takes it, the two wood stays on it, and two more wood are available on that spot for a total of four. One of these spots won't stick around for too long before someone pounces on it.
 
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Iain K
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Ahhh yes . . . we call this "sweetening" in our house
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:50 pm
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Jae
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Twilight Imperium 3 took a page from this book.
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 3:13 am
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Ben Vögel
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Golden Valley
Minnesota
I've been on this site for 8 years now, and I'm far from sick of games, but I think I am, to some degree, sick of learning too many new games. I'm also tired of playing 4+ hr multiplayer games, but I'll still happily play really long games 2 player.
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Vinci was early to the scene with "sweetening".
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 4:27 pm
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Chuck Carroll
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My group is more blunt. We call it bribery.
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:11 pm
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5. Board Game: Zooloretto [Average Rating:6.96 Overall Rank:291]
Doug Faust
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This might be more of an aesthetic similarity than anything else, but Agricola features animal enclosures known as pastures. You build these enclosures using fences on your player board; the bigger the area you fence in, the more animals can fit in the enclosure. Like Zooloretto, only one type of animal can be in a given enclosure. These animals will reproduce and increase in number over the course of the game, assuming you have at least two of them.

(Note: This picture has custom animal components.)
 
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Iain K
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True, but again, there are big differences:
(a) animals in Agricola do not have gender as in Zooloretto. i.e. two pigs make a third pig, period.
(b) two or more pigs make a pig, i.e. four pigs still only make one pig.
(c) no offspring are made if the enclosure (or stable, or home) can't accommodate it (I don't remember how Zoo. handles this).
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:34 pm
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6. Board Game: Shogun [Average Rating:7.70 Overall Rank:42]
Doug Faust
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Like in Shogun, you have to feed those fine folks who do your dirtywork. At the end of every harvest turn, you have to turn in two food for every family member that you have. Failure to do this will result in getting a "beggar" card for each food you're short. Each of these beggar cards will give you a -3 point penalty at the end of the game (and 3 points is pretty sizable in this game). So while it may be advantageous to have a large family to perform lots of actions per turn, you'll need a lot of food to support them and there's only a few spots on the board that provide food.

The real trick is, as the game moves along, the harvest turns occur more often. There are 15 turns in the game, and harvest occurs after turns 4, 7, 10, 12, 14, and 15. In the last turn of the game, you'll only have one turn to get all the food you need to feed your large (hopefully!) family.

(The food chits are on the right of the picture.)
 
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Michael Webb

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Yes, but in Agricola you don't get to experience the joy of whipping the peasants repeatedly to "persuade them" to feed themselves.

I guess no game is perfect... laugh
 
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 2:22 pm
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Jonny Lawless
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My name is Glenn! Long have I carried Cyrus's hopes and dreams, and now I bear the Masamune as well! Henceforth, I claim them as my own! I shall slay the Fiendlord Magus and restore our honor!
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The big similarity here is the Agricola grain silo which functions exactly like the cube tower.
 
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  • Edited Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:20 am
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7. Board Game: Power Grid [Average Rating:8.09 Overall Rank:5]
Doug Faust
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A lot of the "major improvements" in Agricola work like the power plants in Power Grid--you feed it a resource, and it produces a number of food. I've found that these are often overlooked by new players but are a very important way of securing needed food.
 
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Iain K
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Its a core way to magnify your resources into higher levels of food. A core of the game.

One big difference to PG, when you upgrade "major improvements" you surrender them back onto the pool on the board for other players. This helps to eliviate the silliness that only two players could build fire places. The limitation imposed by a limited number of improvement cards, as in PG power plants, has never made realistic sense to me.

Again, score one for Argicola.
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:31 pm
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I suck at Bingo .... but I don't mind
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citizen k wrote:
Its a core way to magnify your resources into higher levels of food. A core of the game.

One big difference to PG, when you upgrade "major improvements" you surrender them back onto the pool on the board for other players. This helps to eliviate the silliness that only two players could build fire places. The limitation imposed by a limited number of improvement cards, as in PG power plants, has never made realistic sense to me.

Again, score one for Argicola.


the one big difference makes perfect sense to me.

If you think of that each turn in Power grid takes a decade. There is a need to upgrade (buy new plants) plants. In the beginning plants do no produce much electricity for the cities. these become more efficient over time.

The government won't allow an unefficient powerplant and that is why powerplants need to be removed from the game.

the only illogical thing is that you are allowed to sell a perfectly good powerplant near the end of the game to buy another one. (You could do this to win the game , buy resources for the plant so that there are not enough resources left for the other player to power the cities.)

from a business point of view in real life this is possible. But not in this market where there are government regulations.


The fire place you mention is a whole different thing however and if you think of it. Why is it that only two players are allowed to build one? It's like having a home and you are not allowed to have a fire place because your neighbour has one.

Or you are not allowed to have a certain boardgame because someone of your group owns it. (this could be a wife rule)

One other thing if you make kids how soon can they help to be productive in the game and how much productivity the parent loose on having a kid.
It seems to me that when you have a kid you are allowed one extra action. But the logical thing would be that the kid takes so much from your time that you couldn't do as much as before. So instead of having an extra turn you loose one. So the first time you loose one.

What does the game do with couples that can't have any kids allthough they want one? Is there a card for that? Or is there a card that someone has an accident at work? these things happen.
If such cards exist in the game this game would probably be an eleven as a soloexperience. Ah but the game wouldn't be balanced if you play with two or more.
In order to have an enjoyable playing experience the game does have to be balanced and both rules, allthough completely different,are well thought out to do exactly that.

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  • Edited Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:46 am
  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:41 am
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Iain K
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You've misunderstood. The aspect of PG's power plants that I do not understand is why *only one player* may build a coal plant that supplies 4 cities. i.e. why auction power plants at all. It makes on sense from an industrial standpoint. If the technology exists to make a 2-4 power plant, every utility company should be able to purchase it.

Of course the whole premise of PG is nonsensical in any country with a single power utility chartered to supply power. (ie a monopoly).

But it's a good game
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 5:33 pm
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Jeroen van der Valk
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Just as Agricola's "weak" point is that it doesn't make much sense that certain actions are only available once in a round...
 
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 8:13 am
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Iain K
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jvdv wrote:
Just as Agricola's "weak" point is that it doesn't make much sense that certain actions are only available once in a round...


This weakness seems indicative of the genre.
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 2:10 pm
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8. Board Game: Vegas Showdown [Average Rating:7.27 Overall Rank:181]
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Like in Vegas Showdown, filling up your player board is important for scoring at the end. Specifically, you get points for having pastures, fields, and house spaces on your board. Furthermore, you lose points for having unused spaces on your board. You also score for the number of animals you have in your pastures, and the number of wheat and vegetables you've managed to accumulate with your fields. There are also ways of scoring bonus points with cards.
 
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Iain K
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There's also the geomorphic, "can't move things once placed" aspect. This reminded me of the Princes of Florence to a degree as well. I joked that we'd better align the doors between rooms of our huts - but this isn't required
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:27 pm
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9. Board Game: Bohnanza [Average Rating:7.13 Overall Rank:199]
Doug Faust
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Mechanically, the game isn't similar to Uwe Rosenberg's other well-known creation, but there is at least one artistic shout-out to the card game classic.

I managed to get this card in the game I played. Yay for soybeans!
 
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Nathan Morse
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The farmers play Bohnanza, too!
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:13 pm
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Nathan Morse
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...and of course they play Agricola!
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:14 pm
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Anni Foasberg


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Another similarity between Agricola and Bohnanza--you can have only one kind of animal in an enclosure, just as you can only have one kind of bean in a field. If you want something else in the same space, you have to clear it out first.
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  • Posted Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:55 pm
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10. Board Game: The Scepter of Zavandor [Average Rating:7.15 Overall Rank:299]
Doug Faust
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While I don't have any specific mechanics to compare here, I think the game has a lot of the same feel as Sceptor of Zavandor. In both games, you're building complex economic engines aided by text on cards that only you have. In both games you can be overwhelmed at first, as you figure out what all the cards do and what all your options are. As the game goes on, you get more in the groove of things, and each player uses their own specific card synergy to maximize their production.
 
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Iain K
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Funny, I found agricola had a much different feel than Sceptor, a game I hate for it's length. One big difference, in Sceptor, you draw cards each turn giving you different values in jewels (IIRC), you never draw resource cards in Agricola, no resources have variable values either.

Sorry, I just don't see any strong parallels between the games, but that's part of why I like Agricola
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:25 pm
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11. Board Game: Agricola [Average Rating:8.25 Overall Rank:2]
Doug Faust
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Of course, there are a lot of aspects of Agricola that don't really compare to other games (or at least, not ones that I've played). For example, the crop-growing mechanic involves first obtaining a wheat or vegetable (usually through a worker placement action) and then planting it (with another worker placement action). At that point, the field will give you 1 wheat/vegetable per turn for the next two or three turns.

Anyway, if anyone would like to add to this list, feel free!
 
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Nathan Morse
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I've heard comparisons to the video game, Harvest Moon, but let's face it: What's better than playing a family exploitation board game with your family?
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:18 pm
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Iain K
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Quote:
At that point, the field will give you 1 wheat/vegetable per turn for the next two or three turns.


Let's ignore the fact that the field gives you goods for the next 2 or 3 *harvests* and not turns.

This particular, invest and get a payout is not uncommon in the empire building genre. For example, choosing sowing in Agricola is essentially the same as building a coffee roaster, taking a coffee plantation, and then playing the craftsman in Puerto Rico. The only difference here is that you do not get to harvest the goods immediately, but they stay on the field and only one can be used each harvest.


This leads me to comments I've made in my review of this game and elsewhere. Despite being a neat new take on the economic engine genre, Agricola is still a member of the Genre. I suspect that for many, it will scratch the same itch as Puerto Rico, Caylus, Scepter, and others. Whether they'll find it unique enough to purchase will have to be seen.
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:13 pm
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12. Board Game: Antiquity [Average Rating:7.89 Overall Rank:98]
Mikko Saari
Finland

http://www.lautapeliopas.fi/ - the best Finnish board game resource!
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Actually, the crop-growing mechanism is 1:1 with Antiquity - in that one too you need to have seeds to make crops - and you might need to eat your seeds, too.

Antiquity was my first reaction from Agricola as both feature feeding your folks as a core element. Agricola is like a friendly family version of Antiquity.
 
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13. Board Game: Pass the Pigs [Average Rating:5.20 Overall Rank:7613]
Harald Korneliussen
Norway

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'nuff said.
 
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14. Board Game: The Settlers of Catan [Average Rating:7.51 Overall Rank:79]
Lindsay Thomas
United Kingdom

Great list.

Having played Agricola now, I can see that it is a fine blend of features from other games.

There are similarities to the resources used in Settlers of Catan:

Wood - wood
Brick - clay
Sheep - sheep
Ore - stone
Grain - grain

Agricola also has reeds, pigs (wild boar), cattle, vegetables.
 
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15. Board Game: Caylus [Average Rating:7.97 Overall Rank:11]
Lindsay Thomas
United Kingdom

Turn order.

Turn order is very important in both Caylus and Agricola. Going first gives you first pick of where to place your workers.

In both games you can place a worker in a space that will gives you the advantage of going first. You keep that advantage until someone else places a worker in that space.

 
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7 comments [Hide]
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Wade
United States
Pueblo
Colorado
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Its "Sims" the computer game!
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:55 pm
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L. Stitz
Germany
Lüneburg
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K P Impsta wrote:
Also the name is a bit familiar.

Agri Cola

Coke Cola
Pepsi Cola


You forgot the obvious one: Afri Cola.
 
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 1:54 pm
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David Smidt
United States
Littleton
Colorado
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Thanks for the great list, Doug. Makes me itch for this game even more! You didn't mention, but I'm curious: How did Zev like the game? Is he more or less enthusiastic about producing the english version after playing? And most importantly, who won?
 
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:27 pm
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Doug Faust
United States
Malverne
New York
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smitty1966 wrote:
Thanks for the great list, Doug. Makes me itch for this game even more! You didn't mention, but I'm curious: How did Zev like the game? Is he more or less enthusiastic about producing the english version after playing? And most importantly, who won?


Zev liked the game (I think he said this was his second time playing), but he was concerned about the effect of the poor exchange rate on his ability to realistically produce the game.

As for our game, I ended up coming in second (by one point!) with an animal-heavy strategy with lots of vegetables. The guy who won managed to set up a completely insane house with 6 stone rooms. The third place player seemed to have a bread-baking strategy going. Zev finished in last; I'm not quite sure what he was doing.
 
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  • Posted Fri Nov 9, 2007 6:26 pm
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David Heldt
United States
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Quote:
Agri Cola

Coke Cola
Pepsi Cola


Diet Coke with sugar!

Oh wait, that was "New Coke"--
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:48 am
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