Best heavy two player games in your opinion?

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

Recommend

There are times when you get just one player to participate to your game night. You would still like to keep the game night. Then you just have to find a suitable two player game, that's all. Some of the two player games are so great that you don't even notice that the amount of participants is just two. As a matter fact you'll not see anything else than the game. Provided that it's good enough. In our game club we have sometimes heavy sundays, when we play just heavy games. It can be quite difficult to get players to these brain burning festivals. So that we'd need also heavy games that can be played with just two players for these. The game should last atleast two hours.

Please feel free to add any suggestions to the list! Your help is appreciated. These will be the games that we acquire for the club. Thank you for your help!

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Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:04 am

1. Board Game: Go [Average Rating:7.77 Overall Rank:41]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

Go is the ultimate heavy two player game IMO. It's like Antoine de Saint Exupéry said that perfection isn't reached when there's nothing more to add, but when there is nothing that could be removed. Go has the most simple rules a game can have and still it's one of the deepest games that exists. You have to appreciate the level of perfection.

4 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:48 am

marc lecours

(rubberchicken)

Canada
ottawa
ontario

absolutely true.

Go is heavy in depth, strategy and usage of neurons.

Go is not heavy in rules. Go can also be played fairly fast (45 minutes gameif you play fast)so it is not necessarily heavy in game length (though a game can last several hours).

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 am
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Lowell Kempf

(Gnomekin)

United States
Chicago
Illinois

The first game I thought of when I saw the title of this list.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:28 pm
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(rayito2702)

United States

Arizona

Quote:

It's like Antoine de Saint Exupéry said that perfection isn't reached when there's nothing more to add, but when there is nothing that could be removed.

But, historically, what makes Go deep is what has been added (board size increased) not what was removed. In fact the apperently official(?) Japanese rules listed here on BGG ( http://files.boardgamegeek.com/geekfile_view.php?fileid=4615) imply that the board size will continue to increase as players desire more complexity.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:32 pm
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Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

That's true. But I am speaking about the rules. But even if you consider that how elegant the game is, there is nothing to be taken away either. Just stones and board with a simple grid. You could play this with just stones and draw the board.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:50 pm
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2. Board Game: Advanced Squad Leader [Average Rating:7.91 Overall Rank:60]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

ASL is the longest game that I can add to this list. Mainly because the library where we have played is open for just 6 hours on sundays. Haven't tried it but it seems fascinating.

2 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:51 am

Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

It's an amazing but heavy game. Look into the Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1 for a great intro to the system. It's cheap and has an amazing amount of depth. Once you figure it out you can play a scenario in 3 hrs or less. If you move into the full game you will have an amazing amount of depth. However, the full game is quite rules-intensive so I would start with the starter kit first before jumping into the first game.

Awesome!

In the full game there are several Finnish scenarios as well-the Finns are badass in ASL.

Edited Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:16 am
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:15 am
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James Hamilton

(Hammy)

United Kingdom
Stockport
Cheshire

ASL isn't a LONG game....

There are plenty of big wargames that take getting on for 6 hours just to setup!

That said ASL is a very good tactical wargame.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:42 pm
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3. Board Game: EastFront [Average Rating:7.79 Overall Rank:332]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

As my grandfather also participated to the battles on the east front this is the battlefield where I want to battle too. After all the fact that Finland survived as a country from the war was a miracle. Well our command was supreme compared to the Russians. Stalin did a very bad mistake in shooting all the good generals he had. Well thanks to his mistakes Finland exists today. Besides supreme command Finland had also superior tactics. I get a bit nationalistic when I think about these battles. But it's just to celebrate the memory of my dear grand father. He was always a war hero to me.

4 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:57 am

Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

My Grandmother has always told us about sisu. It seems to be a hard one to translate into English exactly but when I consider what the Finns faced during the Winter War I think I get some understanding; even without proper translation. She translates it as "to have guts". Indeed.

Edited Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:44 am
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:38 am
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Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

We have lot of sayings that have sisu mentioned. Like:

Sisulla siitä selviää. (If you have the guts you can make it.)
Sisu, sauna, salmiakki ja Sibelius. (Doesn't need a translation. But these are the neljä ässää (four aces, ässä=ace and letter 's') that describe the Finnish culture)

Sisu can't be translated to English. But it means cold will or persistance even in the impossible situation. Like in the setting of WW2. The Finnish cavalry troops called "hakkapeliitta" troops were famous in the middle ages for their cold will. Hakkapeliitta comes from a Finnish battlecry "Hakkaa päälle pohjanpoika, ettei meitä toiset voita!" I don't how that should be translated. Maybe as something like "Beat the shit out of them, you son of north, so that they can't beat us!" Doesn't really translate to English either.

Edited Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:28 am
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:53 am
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Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

hobitti wrote:

"Beat the shit out of them, you son of north!" Doesn't really translate to English either.

I love it! I'm gettting that tattooed somewhere.

I keep wanting to put together a Geeklist of all the games that star the Finns or take place in Finland. I really need to get that going!

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:57 am
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Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

The short version is that "Hakkaa päälle pohjanpoika!" the longer version has a rhyme.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:00 am
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4. Board Game: Twilight Struggle [Average Rating:8.32 Overall Rank:1]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

I am very interested about the cold war. And this is it at it's hottest. The threat of nuclear war is glooming the world. Who will win? Or is the human kind come to an end. I was a child when the cold war ended but I can still remember it.

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:02 am

Philip Thomas

(Philip Thomas)

United Kingdom
London
London

My first memory of an actual news event (as opposed to something personal) is the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I would class this as a medium weight game.

Posted Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:12 am
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5. Board Game: Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage [Average Rating:7.92 Overall Rank:27]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

I have been always fascinated about Rome. Especially after I read the master work of Machiavelli conserning the Republic of Rome. This is a game that I would certainly want to try out.

0 comments

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:04 am

6. Board Game: Caylus [Average Rating:7.97 Overall Rank:11]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

This might be best with just two players. It's also heavy enough. Great game.

4 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:07 am

Valerie Putman

(statonv)

United States
Columbus
Ohio

I would agree that Caylus is a brilliant two player game in the "heavier" category--but it likely won't take you 2 hours to get through it. You might even be able to play a best of 3 match in that time.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:32 am
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Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

Because this is a full information game, it can be analyzed easily for two hours what are the best moves. But you're right it's probably too long for almost everyone. So maybe this doesn't deserve a place on this list.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:35 am
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Jon David Faeth

(roujin27)

United States
Hilliard
Ohio

hobitti wrote:

So maybe this doesn't deserve a place on this list.

My brother and I can hammer out a pretty intense full game in about 45 minutes. Hells yes, it deserves to be here!

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:33 am
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Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

I was thinking about removing it because it might be too short. I required that the game should last for two hours atleast. My first game took three hours because we didn't know the rules. So I don't know that are people willing to play this for two hours with just 2 players. I would be, but like you said you play it in 45 minutes. You wouldn't maybe want to spend two hours playing a single game of Caylus? Am I right?

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:58 pm
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7. Board Game: Dungeon Twister [Average Rating:6.95 Overall Rank:351]

Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

This is a very fun brain-burner of a game. Don't let the theme fool you, this is very much a chess-like heavy game. Great fun!

4 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:24 am

Yoki Erdtman

(Yokiboy)

Sweden
Södertälje

I agree. This game is a brain-burner, and lots of fun.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:58 am
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Christen

(SubtlyArtistic)

Canada
Toronto
Ontario

am i the only one that doesn't get a "burnt brain" from this game? it is very natural for me to be able to envision all the moves and choices.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:46 pm
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Jarred

(jarredscott78)

United States
University Place
Washington

SubtlyArtistic wrote:

am i the only one that doesn't get a "burnt brain" from this game? it is very natural for me to be able to envision all the moves and choices.

That's because you are a genius. The rest of us regular types smoke from the ears when we play it.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:59 am
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Mike Ellis

(bigmop)

Canada
Vernon
British Columbia

Gaming is a lifestyle choice.

This is not a heavy game. Not at all.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:46 am
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8. Board Game: Napoleon's Triumph [Average Rating:8.09 Overall Rank:78]

Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

This is another very deep game that takes some time to figure out. I'm still trying to figure it out but it has a lot to offer.

0 comments

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:25 am

9. Board Game: Hammer of the Scots [Average Rating:7.66 Overall Rank:83]

Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

My last addition is my absolute favorite light wargame. A fun and exciting intro to the Columbia Block genre. Makes a good starting point to lead up to the more complex EastFront or Perhaps Rommel in Desert.

This one offers a lot of interesting strategies and possibilities despite its relative simplicity.

Excellent game!

0 comments

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:28 am

10. Board Game: Roads & Boats [Average Rating:7.69 Overall Rank:118]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

This looks great too. But is it OOP?

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:32 am

Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

I'm pretty sure it's in print. BoardsandBits has it. It is expensive, though I've heard it's worth it.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:54 am
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11. Board Game: Antiquity [Average Rating:7.89 Overall Rank:98]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

Another exciting looking game by Splotter games. I'd really want this.

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:34 am

Mikko Saari

(msaari)

Finland

http://www.lautapeliopas.fi/ - the best Finnish board game resource!

It's a brilliant game and works really well with just two (though I'd probably say it's best with three, or maybe four).

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:19 am
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12. Board Game: Indonesia [Average Rating:7.76 Overall Rank:91]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

Third Splotter game in a row. I wonder if this is best suited as a multiplayer game?

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:37 am

Matt Davis

(coolpapa)

United States
Upland
California

I suspect yes, it's better with more players.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:50 am
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13. Board Game: Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization [Average Rating:8.30 Overall Rank:4]

Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

I wonder if this would work with just two. I have seen it. But didn't get to play it. I had bad timing.

2 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 am

Dave Eisen

(dkeisen)

United States
Silicon Valley
California

Works great with two. Play it this way more than any other, although that is in part because it is only 2.5 hours with 2 people and gets longer with more players.

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:56 am
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Chris Buhl

(fatgreta)

United States
Pittsfield
Massachusetts

dkeisen wrote:

Works great with two. Play it this way more than any other, although that is in part because it is only 2.5 hours with 2 people and gets longer with more players.

I absolutely agree. This is my favorite game, and I like it best two player.

Posted Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:34 pm
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14. Board Game: Torres [Average Rating:7.24 Overall Rank:184]

Luk

(Vitriool)

Belgium

n/a

Cerainly not the heaviest, but still a very nice one. I absolutely adore it.

2 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:18 pm

Jon David Faeth

(roujin27)

United States
Hilliard
Ohio

Play the master game without the extra master cards for scoring, and it's a great 2p game. Love it.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:35 am
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Nikosu Oyama

(hobitti)

Finland
Turku

I want to try this. But it's too short for what I've looking for. Even Caylus might be too short.

Edited Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:47 am
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:45 am
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15. Board Game: War of the Ring [Average Rating:7.92 Overall Rank:16]

Aaron Tubb

(Aarontu)

United States
Fuquay Varina
North Carolina

This game is simply amazing. I believe it is a must-have for any LotR fan, and it is my absolute favorite heavy 2-player game, no contest. For players who like a good narrative and theme-driven heavy gaming experience, I can think of no other game that satisfies as well as this one.

3 comments [Hide]

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:48 pm

Mike Ellis

(bigmop)

Canada
Vernon
British Columbia

Gaming is a lifestyle choice.

This is the greatest two player game in existance.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:47 am
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Michael Debije

(mi_de)

Netherlands
Eindhoven
The Netherlands

Sez you.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:27 am
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Keith Pottage

(keithpottage)

United Kingdom
Nr Wakefield
West Yorkshire

Yes, this is a superb, heavy two-player game. It took us ages to get all the rules (you really need to download clearer versions to play by) but once you do there's all the variety, depth and atmosphere you could want. It constantly throws up new tactics and possibilities.

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:08 pm
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16. Board Game: Grand Chess [Average Rating:7.36 Unranked]

Michael Howe

(mhowe)

United States
Cromwell
Connecticut

This is intended to represent chess variants in general, of which there are many good ones. None of them are particularly rules-heavy, unless you get into the large shogi variants or some of the more ambitious war or fantasy-themed variants, none of which really appeal to me. Standard chess is a great game, but many feel that playing it well takes too much study, and that's true. But the best variants offer as much strategic depth or more and you don't have to have read a small library, studied with a master, and devoted hundreds of hours to the game in order to be competitive and find and enjoy original strategies.

A very short list of recommended variants:

Variants of Western Chess:
Dynamo*
Extinction Chess*
Hostage Chess*
Grand Chess
Wildebeest Chess
*playable with a standard chess set

Traditional Regional Games:
Shogi
Xiang Qi
Sittuyin
Makruk

0 comments

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:35 pm

17. Board Game: Paths of Glory [Average Rating:8.07 Overall Rank:20]

Troy Adlington

(Troymk1)

Australia
Dallas
Texas

Any of the 2 player CDGs are pretty good this one especially.

0 comments

Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:27 pm

18. Board Game: Twixt [Average Rating:6.60 Overall Rank:840]

J C Lawrence

(clearclaw)

United States
Campbell
California

A wonderful knife fight in a telephone booth.

0 comments

Posted Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:04 am

1 comment [Hide]

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Scott

(Checkallday)

United States
Denver
Colorado

Lots of wargames will meet your requirements. Here is an excellent meta-list of all the best thought of intro wargames:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/22861

Note: There is always some debate about what exactly it means when we say a game is "heavy". It seems that many people have different definitions. For me it's all about how much you have to think when you play. So thats the working definition that I use when I recommend a heavy game.

Edited Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:31 am
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:20 am
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