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Tug o' War: an original Knizia mechanic?
Brian Thompson
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When I first starting buying Euro games and coming to BGG.com, I got used to reading remarks about Reiner Knizia and how the good Doctor is known for re-combining a mish-mash of gaming mechanics to come up with his own designs. Opinions of this nature always seemed to me, to be less than complimentary. As if Reiner Knizia is some hack who can't come up with any original ideas of his own for any of the many games he has designed. This has always bothered me a little bit.

I have become a big fan of Reiner Knizia and his game designs. I am of the personal opinion that his game designs are extremely original. I think people tend to pick on Reiner Knizia a little unfairly mainly because he is such a prolific game designer. After designing more than 200 games there are bound to be a few duds, but I could go on for hours about how games like Medici, Ra, and Taj Mahal (just to name a few) are simple, clean, and beautiful game designs. (I'm trying really hard not to use the work "elegant" here, but its really hard.)

There is one game mechanic that Knizia uses in several of his games. To my knowledge, it is a mechanic unique to Knizia games and not borrowed from any other game designers. It is what I call, the "Tug o' War" mechanic. This is when game pieces get pulled back and forth by the players to give either player an advantage. This list is a collection of the Knizia games that utilize this mechanic. (Actually my friend and fellow BGG user, Rayito, was the first person I ever heard refer to this as a Tug of war mechanic.)

Again, I may be wrong, but to my knowledge, I would say that the Tug o' War mechanic is one of Knizia's signature, unique game mechanics. Feel free to add to this list.
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1. Board Game: Times Square [Average Rating:6.32 Overall Rank:1469]
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This game involves playing cards that influences or pulls pawns on a linear track towards one or the other player.
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2. Board Game: Dragon Parade [Average Rating:5.82 Overall Rank:3204]
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In this multiplayer game, players attempt to pull a dragon meeple along a linear track such that it will be closer to the street vendors that they have deployed along the track.
 
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3. Board Game: Amun-Re [Average Rating:7.45 Overall Rank:97]
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In Amun-Re, the players make a sacrifice to Amun-Re. Players can either sacrifice their money or actually steal money from the sacrifice. The sum of all the players sacrifices in turn influences where the temple token will be placed on the temple track. This affects the amount of income players recieve during the harvest. This is probably my most favorite use of Knizia's "Tug o' War" mechanic. Amun-Re is one of my favorite games.
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Richard Irving
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Here there is NO tug of war here.--it solely additive, you add the total offering. The total is used to calculate temple and farmer value awards and give bonuses to the big "donors". Or actually, bidders.

It is essentially a blind biding mechanism!

Granted the goal depends on your situation:
- If you have farmers/temple, you want to bid high enough to increase the values of your farmers and bonuses to be more than you paid for them.
- If you don't have farmers, you want to pass (by taking 3 gold) because ant bid would be wasted AND it has the side benefit of limiting the advantage in income of the players with farmers.
- The one thing you don't want to do is bid a lot and get little advantage out of it by losing the bid by 1.
 
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 2:17 am
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rri1 wrote:
It is essentially a blind biding mechanism!

I maintain that the sacrifice to Amun-Re is one of the most interesting bidding mechanisms ever. It is blind bidding and has the push/pull element kasuga describes. The -3 cards reduce the total value of the bid drawing the number down and making the lower Temple registers more likely.

Until now I never would have thought of this as a tug of war game. If it is, it's only barely one.
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  • Edited Sun May 11, 2008 4:24 am
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Greg Jones
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You can also "tug" the other way with the card that can shift 3 spaces either way.
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 7:56 am
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If you are considering the sacrifice as a unique mechanism I would have to strongly disagree. Its a simple economic measure that the players can add or subtract from. There are a "ton" of games with an economy. Just 2 that spring to mind immediately are Supremacy with its resources market and Power Grid with its resources market. Players can manipulate the market for sucessive players by buying more and driving up the price (or in the case of Supremacy selling items to drive down the price). I'm not knocking the Amun-Re (its one of my favorites), its just that I don't see the "Tug 0'War" mechanic as unique (to this game or any of the others). Interesting yes, unique, no.
 
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PaleHorseRider wrote:
If you are considering the sacrifice as a unique mechanism I would have to strongly disagree.

The thing that I find novel about the sacrifice is that it's a communal blind bid. Some players want the Temple to get lots of donations, others want the Temple to get the shaft, no one wants to spend more money than they have to and no one knows what exactly the other players are going to bid. Players are forced to collude with each other and form coalitions of the moment. Great stuff.

I know of no other bidding system like it and I would be happy to hear of other games using such a mechanism.
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4. Board Game: Blue Moon [Average Rating:6.88 Overall Rank:383]
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Blue Moon is a card game where the players are trying to win a series of battles and thereby "pull" one or two of three dragons towards them. Once a player wins one additional battle after pulling all three dragons to their side, the player wins the game.

The dragons go back and forth in a tug of war manner. Only one player can have dragons on his side at any given time. In order to get dragons to your side of the board, one must first win enough battles to pull all the dragons away from their opponent, to the center of the board. Then the dragons may be pulled towards your side of the board.
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Richard Irving
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No--it is simply a very simple score recording system that grants victory to the first player who is 4 fights ahead (or to the player with most fights won, when a player's deck runs out.)
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 2:06 am
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rri1 wrote:
No--it is simply a very simple score recording system that grants victory to the first player who is 4 fights ahead (or to the player with most fights won, when a player's deck runs out.)

I understand what you are saying. It's possible to just give each player a point whenever they get a Dragon and keep a running value of the difference in points to see who has won.

The way the point system has been defined in Blue Moon affects the way it is interpreted thematically. I pull Dragons on to my side and my opponent pulls them back. It reflects the changing tides of war and makes the game feel very much like of tug of war.
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 4:23 am
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rri1 wrote:
No--it is simply a very simple score recording system that grants victory to the first player who is 4 fights ahead (or to the player with most fights won, when a player's deck runs out.)


Thanks for reading my list. I appreciate your comments, but I respectfully disagree. Here, Knizia applied his tug of war mechanic to the scoring mechanism. I will explain this further below after your comments on Medici vs. Strozzi.
Check it out.
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 4:31 am
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rri1 wrote:
No--it is simply a very simple score recording system that grants victory to the first player who is 4 fights ahead (or to the player with most fights won, when a player's deck runs out.)



I do believe he is referencing the fact that only one player can have any dragons. Since when a player wins a fight the first option is to pull the other players dragon back to the middle of the play area if they have one. Thus he is saying the players influence with the dragons is a tug of war affair.

Now if you are playing a series of games you receive a physical score at the end of the game called crystals that are based on how many dragons you have and can be modified by card effects which would be the simple recording system you seem to be wanting to see.
 
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 9:19 pm
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rri1 wrote:
No--it is simply a very simple score recording system that grants victory to the first player who is 4 fights ahead (or to the player with most fights won, when a player's deck runs out.)


It would be if there weren't card that depended on what dragons you currently have on your side. In the expansion there are cards that give you extra points if you have the blue dragon when played for instance. You can't do that if you are just tallying points.
 
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5. Board Game: Medici vs Strozzi [Average Rating:6.58 Overall Rank:880]
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In this two-player version of Medici, players attempt to collect sets of tiles that represent goods to be shipped. This game has several linear tracks for each tile type where players are attempting to pull markers towards themselves by shipping more of a particular good than their opponent. Having the marker on your side of the track gives you more money to bid with in later rounds.
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Richard Irving
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Again a scoring system, which could easily with counting the totals from both sides and awarding more money to the leader.
 
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 2:07 am
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rri1 wrote:
Again a scoring system, which could easily with counting the totals from both sides and awarding more money to the leader.


In Medici vs. Strozzi, Knizia applied this Tug of War concept to the scoring of the game and as such the scoring mechanism in this game is now distinctly different from a typical, traditional scoring where the players score is tracked completely independently from each other.

One can easily compare this game to the scoring mechanism in the original Medici game. In the original Medici, players moved up on the various tracks completely independently of one another. This is a conventional scoring system.

In Medici vs. Strozzi, however, Knizia made it a tug of war between players. The markers get pulled back and forth, just like in a Tug of war. It seems perfectly clear to me, I don't know what the debate is about.
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 4:41 am
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Greg Jones
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rri1 wrote:
Again a scoring system, which could easily with counting the totals from both sides and awarding more money to the leader.


Any two-player game could be scored as a tug of war. But, although I haven't played it, it sounds from the description like it isn't just the scoring. There are certain things you can do in the game when the tug is on your side. If you like you can say there are certain things you can do while you are ahead. But that would be a novel mechanic too.
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 8:11 am
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6. Board Game: Lord of the Rings [Average Rating:6.91 Overall Rank:324]
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This is probably the coolest and most unique utilization of Knizia's Tug o' war mechanic, where the game itself is trying to pull the hobbit adventurer's closer to Sauron on the Corruption track. The players can play cards and use special priveleges to pull there pieces back away from Sauron.
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Richard Irving
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Players advance on the track as they get more corruption points, however, the finish line (aka Sauron) can also be moved.
 
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 2:08 am
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Greg Jones
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Yes, this one seems a stretch to me. Another thing that's different about this one is that there's no way for the hobbits to win the tug-of-war. They can only lose or hold out until they fulfill their different winning condition.
 
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  • Posted Sun May 11, 2008 8:12 pm
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morningstar wrote:
Yes, this one seems a stretch to me. .



In each of these games, Knizia used the mechanic differently and yes he did stretch it and use it in a unique manner everytime. It doesn't necessarily have to be used the same here as it is in Times Square. It is basically the same idea but with a different twist.


morningstar wrote:
Another thing that's different about this one is that there's no way for the hobbits to win the tug-of-war. They can only lose or hold out until they fulfill their different winning condition.


This isn't a game about victory points. Its about going on a journey where you are constantly getting attacked and beat up until the end. Isn't that really what this game is all about and what makes it so tense and fun. It's that feeling that we, as a team, are just holding on. We're just trying to survive and get through until the end, even if only just barely.
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7. Board Game: Duell [Average Rating:6.41 Overall Rank:1483]
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This game appears to have the ultimate Knizia Tug o' War mechanic...
 
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Richard Irving
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I read a description once the Duell/En Garde is Knizia's version of.....

CRIBBAGE.

Both players alternate playing cards, instead of adding to the total of a pile as in Cribbage, they move their pieces for opposite ends of a fixed length track--which effectively is the same thing.

In Cribbage, you are trying to hit the total 31 exactly. In Deull you are trying to play a card that would reach your opponent's square exactly to score a touch. Which is exactly the same thing.

In both games, you are not allowed to play a card allows you to go over.

The difference in how each game handles what happens next. In Cribbage if you can't play with out going over, you give the other player a point or two. In Duell, you must back up (or match for a parry) to continue the game.

 
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  • Edited Sun May 11, 2008 2:30 am
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Greg Jones
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And who says Knizia's games are weak on theme. Here he has taken a game with no theme, changed the mechanics a little, and made a game which fits the theme well.
 
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8. Board Game: Schildkrötenrennen [Average Rating:6.76 Overall Rank:885]
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In this Knizia title, players are represented on the board by a single wooden turtle. However, player identities are secret like Heimlich & Co. Players play color-specific + or - cards to move turtles forward or backwards on the track. The interesting part is, if a turtle moves forward to a space with another turtle or turtles, it goes on top. If a turtle with other turtles on it moves, all turtles on it move with it. The + and - cards represent a tug-of-war at times, with people preventing a certain group or individual turtle from reaching the finish line.
 
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9. Board Game: Heave Ho! [Average Rating:6.23 Overall Rank:1671]
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Don't forget about Richard Borg's Heave Ho!, a game that has a Scottish tug of war theme.
 
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Dave VanderArk
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Note that Heave Ho! was released before most of the Knizia games on this list (En Garde/Duell and LOTR being the exceptions I recognize without looking things up. Maybe Amun-Re as well). I'm not sure the mechanism originates with Knizia.

An earlier "tug of war" game would be 12er Stich http://boardgamegeek.com/game/2185

12er Stich is a simple climbing game where players add numbered cards to a pile, adding or subtracting the value of the card they played to the sum of the pile. Bring the value of the pile to exactly 12 or 0 and you collect the pile. You're not moving a physical object, but this is certainly a tug of war.

At its simplest, couldn't War be considered a tug of war game?
 
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  • Posted Mon May 12, 2008 3:39 pm
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These are really good additions to the list. Thank you.
It is clear to me that Reiner Knizia did not invent the "tug of war" mechanic (as I think of it). In a real sense, he has taken this mechanic and put some of his own unique twists on it.

That's okay. I don't mind admitting that. But I do think that what Reiner does with games and game mechanics transcends just mere recycling. He takes different mechanics and works them together in such a way that the game is much more than the sum of its parts.

Ra, for instance, is a very rich and intense bidding game, once you learn how to evaluate the relative value of the tiles and the current state of the game which also affects the value of the tiles.

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10. Board Game: Mercenary [Average Rating:5.57 Unranked]
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Mercenary from 1978 uses a 5-way tug of war system for minor power diplomacy. Each of the 15 minor powers is represented by a chit placed on the chart, and the 5 players (major powers) can expend money to 'tug' the chits towards themselves into several zones of increasing control over the minors.
 
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W M Shubert
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I'm not sure if the tug of war is original to him, I think that depends on how generally you define it. But I think it's clear that Knizia has invented unique mechanics (the T&E battles have got to be his invention). But it's also clear that he recycles mechanics like crazy. Look at how many of his games have you apply numbered pieces to scoring counters! Or how often he uses push your luck! Etc.

But I don't blame him for doing that. Often the result is a good game, and I don't think that it is possible to make hundreds of games without recycling some mechanics!
 
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So basically Tug of war is having an automatic victory or an advantage/disadvantage based on relative score with a points differential scoring system?

I have to say I agree with richard, having a game where you gain some kind of advantage or disadvantage based on relative score is common to many, many games. I don't think Tug or war is a good name for it. Do you think powergrid is a tug of war game? I just think that it sounds like it is the fact that there is points differential shown on the board that is really the decisive factor. If that is the case it is not a mechanic, points differential is merely a means of showing something on the board. It sounds like you intend it to be more than that, perhaps it includes an automatic victory or advantage based on points differential, but too much emphasis is being placed on the push and pull of a victory point counter.

To me this reminds me of the difference between area movement and point to point movent, area maps are functional a subset of point to point maps (on purely game functionality terms), they aren't really different.
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  • Edited Mon May 12, 2008 10:41 am
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ZombyDawg wrote:
Quote:
. . . the "Tug o' War" mechanic. This is when game pieces get pulled back and forth by the players to give either player an advantage.


First thing I thought of:




I think you hit it on the nose. I completely forgot about that one.
 
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ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
I have to say I agree with richard, having a game where you gain some kind of advantage or disadvantage based on relative score is common to many, many games. I don't think Tug or war is a good name for it. Do you think powergrid is a tug of war game?

I'm talking about a specific advantage as it pertains to this geeklist. Though there is merit (perhaps in another geeklist?) in discussing all the different ways game designers allow us to "game" the score track. Interesting examples include the turn order effects of Power Grid and the bonuses for getting specific numbers of points as seen in Carcassonne: The Castle. Each one of these things forces the players to make decisions on how many points they want to get at any one time.

Quote:
To me this reminds me of the difference between area movement and point to point movent, area maps are functional a subset of point to point maps (on purely game functionality terms), they aren't really different.

Both hex and area movement games can be defined as point to point. It's just a question of what type of graphical representation works best for the situation.
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  • Posted Mon May 12, 2008 6:07 pm
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Colin Hunter
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Yes, Hex games can also be defined as point to point, although at some tactical levels this isn't true. ASL and Combat Commander have functionally a line of sight system, this wouldn't work on a standard point to point style map, but I agree it is probably splitting hairs. I only bring up Area and point to point as an example.
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  • Posted Mon May 12, 2008 9:29 pm
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