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Best Unbalanced, yet balanced, games
Wade
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So I'm kind of getting tired of the auto balanced euro games. Yes, these are magnificent designs but it often feels like there can be no wrong move and they game makes sure that you are all 1 VP away all game long.

I'm designing some homebrews to break out of that mold, and I was wondering which games people thought were remarkably balanced despite being apparently unbalanced with regards to setup, powers, etc. Or balanced in an innovative way besides the "you get 10 VP so now I get 7 VP" euro balance.

Please add games you think are balanced in interesting ways, have asymmetrical powers, etc. Anything that breaks the mold and still allows for interesting and fun gaming.

Wargames, euro games, anything is fair game!
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Posted On: 2008-05-12 13:48:58
Edited On: 2008-05-12 17:10:07

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1. Twilight Struggle [Average Rating:8.32 Overall Rank:3]
Wade
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No#3 so I'm not alone in enjoying the ways the different powers and setup create an unbalanced situation, yet a tense and exciting game. It's hard to understand that the game is balanced over the coarse of the game not each round. Still add some space race rolls and people just can't handle it. The auto victory helps this one too. If it gets wildly unbalanced then the game ends, and you start again.
6
14 Comments [Hide]
Posted On: 2008-05-12 11:34:04
Edited on: 2008-05-12 11:35:26
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Donald Walsh
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05060708
This one should be on my doorstep any moment now...
Dan Shaw
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Take you on any time, dude.
Wade
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mountaintopdan wrote:

Take you on any time, dude.

Lets roll! Come on down, should have it soon!
So There i was in a carrot suit at a rabbit convention.....
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Dan I would destroy you little man. :)
Justin
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050607
Pro-USSR bias: hard data "...As of July 19, 2007, 179 games have been completed. The USSR has won 63% of these games..."

please see comment below before flaming :)
3
Wade
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and Ive won a bunch of games as the US I guess I'm pretty awesome:)
1
Chester Ogborn
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04060708
As my skill level in the game increased, my perception of USSR bias evaporated. I think the game is well balanced at high levels of play, or nearly enough so as to not require any tweaking. I'm no master player, but early on it felt harder for the USA. Now it feels about right.

I note that there is a bidding option that allows the USA player to place more influence in set-up. That seems like a good solution to me, if matched players both perceive a USSR bias.
Philip Thomas
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05060708
astroglide wrote:
Pro-USSR bias: hard data "...As of July 19, 2007, 179 games have been completed. The USSR has won 63% of these games..."

please see comment below before flaming :)


Note that this data comes from timed games. People looking at the data have noticed USA seems to lose more often on time.
Nicholas Jost
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Philip Thomas wrote:
astroglide wrote:
Pro-USSR bias: hard data "...As of July 19, 2007, 179 games have been completed. The USSR has won 63% of these games..."

please see comment below before flaming :)


Note that this data comes from timed games. People looking at the data have noticed USA seems to lose more often on time.


I don't know if this is quite a fair assessment. Many USSR games are early victories on points. There's quite extensive data on this now.
Boris Dvorkin
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nickjost wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
astroglide wrote:
Pro-USSR bias: hard data "...As of July 19, 2007, 179 games have been completed. The USSR has won 63% of these games..."

please see comment below before flaming :)


Note that this data comes from timed games. People looking at the data have noticed USA seems to lose more often on time.


I don't know if this is quite a fair assessment. Many USSR games are early victories on points. There's quite extensive data on this now.


I don't see what part of the assessment isn't fair. USSR victories tend to come early, USA victories tend to come late. That's the way the game was designed. What does this have to do with the fact that the time limit in the above games clearly favored the USSR?

After taking the time limit into account, I'd say the true imbalance is 60-40 or even 55-45 in favor of the USSR among expert players. That's pretty darn good, and I feel that among non-experts the game is about as balanced as you can get. Theoretically Russia has an edge, but a Red leader who fails to make proper use of the USSR's early advantages can easily get creamed.
Mike Bazynski
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0708
you lost me. what's your definition of 'balanced' again? with this one designer himself admits it's at best 40%-60% balanced... would be my pick for 1st entry on 'unbalanced unbalanced games list'...
Ananda Gupta
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Where did either designer say any such thing? I don't recall, but the Internet never forgets.
2
Philip Thomas
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05060708
nickjost wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
astroglide wrote:
Pro-USSR bias: hard data "...As of July 19, 2007, 179 games have been completed. The USSR has won 63% of these games..."

please see comment below before flaming :)


Note that this data comes from timed games. People looking at the data have noticed USA seems to lose more often on time.


I don't know if this is quite a fair assessment. Many USSR games are early victories on points. There's quite extensive data on this now.


Precisely why a timed tournament is likely to produce a USSR bias. Early victories tend to be USSR victories.

Imagine the tournament timer stopped after half an hour. Any victories that had taken place in that time would almost certainly by USSR wins. The remaining games would go to the judges. But half an hour in most games have USSR winning...

Björn Hansson
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05060708
Any balance problems in this game are easily solved by VP bidding.