Wargamers Looking to Start Wargames

United States
Kettering
Ohio

Recommend

I've been a wargamer for almost 15 years now, but a MINIATURE wargamer. I've dragged in a friend recently and he's fully hooked, but at the same time, I've become a father and I'm finding money and time to be tight enough that coughing up $50 for rules plus $25 for an army book plus $(how much!?) for miniatures which I then have to paint...is less than a welcoming thought.

So I turned to boardgames and card games. I have Settlers, I have Ticket to Ride, and I have 1960. Ah, 1960, apparently so close to Twilight Struggle...

So yeah, my friend and I like wargames and we like boardgames and I want to pursue this in the direction of Case Blue. I'm okay spending some cash, and I'm okay with the occasional 6-hour game but I'd like to stay within 3 hours or so. And while we're not afraid of complex rules (the last rulebook I bought is over 250 pages), I've looked at ASL and I think it's a bit much.

So, here are my thoughts and my plea for suggestions!

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Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:43 am

1. Board Game: Twilight Struggle [Average Rating:8.32 Overall Rank:1]

Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

I'm actually skipping over this one. I've heard it described as being a lot like 1960 and a Euro-/war-game. I already have 1960 and I want to get straight into WARgames.

4 comments [Hide]

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:32 am

Erik Nicely

United States

TS is a wargame only in the loosest sense of the word. It is a kick ass strategy boardgame that is much more tense and more involved than 1960.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:14 am
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Gregory Smith

(JaggedTech)

United States
Newark
California

I suppose I differ in opinion from other grognards in that I think that this IS a wargame. It is also a far better game than 1960.

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:00 am
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Colin Hunter

New Zealand
Auckland

Stop the admins removing history from the Wargaming forum.

Far better than 1960, if you want to call it a wargame go ahead, I don't really care. Whatever it is, wargame, AT or can of Tuna, it is fantastic.

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:53 am
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Bill Koens

(Xelvonar)

United States
Watsonville
California

marks the spot.

Quote:

Far better than 1960, if you want to call it a wargame go ahead, I don't really care. Whatever it is, wargame, AT or can of Tuna, it is fantastic.

He's right, you know. I took my copy, mixed it with relish and mayo, and ate it on toast. Fantastic!

Edited Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:28 pm
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:27 pm
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2. Board Game: Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage [Average Rating:7.92 Overall Rank:27]

Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

I'm planning to jump to this instead. Stick to the card-driven system, but deeper and more war-ish.

0 comments

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:33 am

3. Board Game: Hammer of the Scots [Average Rating:7.66 Overall Rank:83]

Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

Where Hannibal seems to be the most-recommended starting point for card-driven wargames, this seems to be the block-based counterpart. My friend hates Stratego from his childhood, so he's leery.

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:38 am

Philip Thomas

(Philip Thomas)

United Kingdom
London
London

The resemblance to Stratego is superficial. Combat results are not automatic, pieces keep changing sides, more than one piece can be in the same space, movement is card-centred... etc etc.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:47 am
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4. Board Game: A Victory Lost [Average Rating:7.73 Overall Rank:266]

Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

I'm really interested in this one as a hex and counter game with some real innovations. But, since I have to wait for the reprint, I might as well start with a good intro counter game, maybe something a little more modest, but what?

Oh yeah, I'm a little obsessed with the Eastern Front, so that's always a good hook.

8 comments [Hide]

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:41 am

4.0 Rules

(billyboy)

United States
Rutland
Vermont

Drop the dice and step away from the table!

Move along, nothing to see here!

Play it! I have been obsessed with Eastfront games for over 30 years!As someone here said "you are not a wargamer if you have never had an urge to invade Russia".Or something like that.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:20 pm
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Show 3 more comments...

Jason Roach

(Jason Roach)

United States
Baltimore
Maryland

whac3 wrote:

billyboy wrote:

moss_icon wrote:

I always have the urge to save Russia.

Somebody has to!Better you than Stalin!

Sorry but when one talks about invading Russia, my first thought is, "Vive Napoleon!"

WWII games are good too but I prefer the Napoleonic wars. I ALWAYS want to play France. Of course I haven't gotthese types of games myself yet but I'm still building the collection to where I want it.

Moshe, you should check out Highway to the Kremlin. It is a bit high on the complexity level as the game is part of OSG’s Campaigns of Napoleon series, but from what I understand, this is perhaps one of the best treatments of the subject.

If you are working your way up to it, then start with the “Days” series as it is more basic and introduces a lot of the core concepts.

-Jason

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:22 am
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Gregory Smith

(JaggedTech)

United States
Newark
California

I don't think this game has any innovations. Instead, it strips the game system down to its essence. So the game is pretty easy to learn and play. The game is elegant in its simplicity, but there is nothing really new in it. This elegant simplicity is attractive to a lot of people, hence it's popularity. However, I was not wowed by it. I want some chrome in my wargames. To me, this game was like eating vanilla ice cream. Also, the game goes on a bit long. I have nothing against long wargames, in fact I like a lot of very long wargames, but for me A Victory Lost overstays its welcome at about hour 2.

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:11 am
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Colin Hunter

New Zealand
Auckland

Stop the admins removing history from the Wargaming forum.

JaggedTech wrote:

I agree with you here, but I think AVL is an excellent game. New mechnaics? not really, Long for its complexity? probably, but some how this one provides tremendous feel for its complexity, it reminds me a bit (in feel terms purely) of a house divided or something like that. Anyway I definitely recommend this one to new players who want to try something with a bit of meat and lenghth, but want to avoid too much chrome.

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:57 am
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James Lowry

(Rindis)

Spain
Sunnyvale
California

Right, this is the anti-innovation game. Nothing new, just stripped down to it's essence and carefully put together in a nicely minimalist package.

It does a great job of showing a lot of traditional mechanisms to their best advantage. (Which is probably harder than innovation.)

Edited Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:23 am
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:22 am
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5. Board Game: Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! Russia 1941-1942 [Average Rating:7.78 Overall Rank:72]

Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

I meant to include this one and was reminded. This and Hannibal are pretty much tied for being my next game purchase.

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:25 am

Jan van der Laan

(Jan van der Laan)

Netherlands
Leeuwarden
Friesland

From what I've read, an excellent choice. This seems te be a simple (not simplistic) and fast playing game. Besides that, it has top notch game parts. I've ordered this game and looking forward to play it.

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:38 am
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6. Board Game: World at War: Eisenbach Gap [Average Rating:7.59 Overall Rank:523]

Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

Also thinking hard about this one, just to break free from WWII.

2 comments [Hide]

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:21 am

Erik Nicely

United States

Great game. I am a reformed minis game player and right now this one is my favorite.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:47 am
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Colin Hunter

New Zealand
Auckland

Stop the admins removing history from the Wargaming forum.

I can see the appeals if you come from a minis background ~~I guess, but this game for me was rather shallow and superficial~~. It does play really quickly though and isn't that expensive. I'm not trying to piss all over it, I know people like this game, just don't expect thousands of hours of replayability from the base game. There are a few good scenarios though.

edit: Sorry erik, I don't really want to be an asswhole about it, just lots of people like different games, I think rational people can agree on this one

Edited Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:01 am
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:58 am
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7. Board Game: Lock 'n Load: Band of Heroes [Average Rating:7.50 Overall Rank:606]

Erik Nicely

United States

This is a quick playing (under 4 hours) squad level wargame that doesn't have a crushing amount of rules. A minis gamer will be familiar with line of sight, melee, and morale rules. Every game will be a little different in the implementation of those but the basic concepts are the same as in minis games. Different enough from a minis game that it won't be the same old thing.

1 comment [Hide]

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:50 am

Jan van der Laan

(Jan van der Laan)

Netherlands
Leeuwarden
Friesland

I second this!

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:40 am
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8. Board Game: Lock 'N Load: Forgotten Heroes; Vietnam [Average Rating:7.38 Overall Rank:1304]

Erik Nicely

United States

Same core system as above but Viet Nam battles. Gunships, M 79s, cool stuff like that.

0 comments

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:52 am

9. Board Game: Afrika (second edition) [Average Rating:7.56 Overall Rank:780]

Erik Nicely

United States

The war in North Africa in 8-10 hours with shorter scenarios available. Part of a series that doesn't have a brain damaging amount of rules:

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Standard_Combat_Series#

1 comment [Hide]

Edited Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:12 am
Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:10 am

Mark Mokszycki

(duckweed)

United States
Snohomish
Washington

I agree. SCS is a great system for wargaming newcomers to discover. The rules are about 6 pages long, but the games have depth.

Posted Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:23 am
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10. Board Game: Lock 'n Load: A Day of Heroes [Average Rating:7.85 Overall Rank:1129]

Erik Nicely

United States

Almost forgot about this, same Lock n Load system. Seen Black Hawk Down? Same thing.

0 comments

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:18 am

11. Board Game: Tide of Iron [Average Rating:7.38 Overall Rank:186]

Jan van der Laan

(Jan van der Laan)

Netherlands
Leeuwarden
Friesland

It's a kind of cross over between a boardgame and a minis game (it's even using minis). It takes some time to set up the board but it plays fast and is not rules heavy. There are complaints concerning the balance of the scenarios included in ToI but new scenarios are on their way. Imho this still is a very good game.

0 comments

Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:48 am

12. Board Game: A House Divided [Average Rating:7.10 Overall Rank:407]

Elwyn Darden

(edarden)

United States
Richmond
Virginia

A really great game with short, clear rules. The game can run longer than your goal of 3 hours, but not by too much. With practice you may be able to recognize a winner at the three hour mark.

0 comments

Posted Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:04 pm

13. Board Game: Edgehill: Dawning of the Revolution [Average Rating:6.73 Unranked]

Roberto Chiavini

(Taddeo)

Italy
Firenze

Introductive and very fast, excellent for both solitaire and competitive play. And most of all, FREE!!

0 comments

Posted Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:07 am

14. Board Game: Battles of the Middle Ages: Legnano [Average Rating:5.88 Unranked]

Roberto Chiavini

(Taddeo)

Italy
Firenze

Same than for Edgehill (it uses a similar system), but for Medieval Times

0 comments

Posted Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:08 am

5 comments [Hide]

Post Comment

Mike King

(oneoldgamer)

United States
Wilder
Kentucky

I highly recommend Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! Russia 1941-1942. It is a little pricey, but no more so than Combat Commander Europe. The components are gorgeous and the system is just great. Very deep tactical decision making but the rules are very clean and elegant. I think it would be a great game to move from miniatures to board wargames since it has that tactical feel of a miniatures game.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:29 am
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Todd Pytel

(tppytel)

United States
Chicago
Illinois

I'm not sure if you realize just how enormously gigantic Case Blue is. I'm not sure if even the smallest Case Blue scenario could be played in 6 hours. It might be possible if you're pretty familiar with OCS. But even so any of the other scenarios are definitely well beyond that. Case Blue is a really huge game.

Anyway, you've got some fine games on your list so far and they should fit your criteria well. It's just not obvious that Case Blue is where you want to go with it. Probably you should try something like Tunisia first to see if OCS is something you'd enjoy.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:56 am
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Aaron Jones

United States
Kettering
Ohio

Well, Case Blue was intended as a hypothetical high point rather than a practical goal, sort of a head "we're headed THAT way." Of course, now I know to take a look at Tunisia, so that's awesome, thanks!

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:24 am
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Erik Nicely

United States

Aaron I was in your exact same position a year ago. Over 20 years of solid miniatures gaming, looking for something new. I haven't played a minis game in a year and all of my recent wargaming has been hex and counter (or area-impulse and counter). I haven't looked back once. I do like painting minis but with boxed wargames all of that painting time is converted to actually playing games. I've made a couple suggestions in your list. Shoot me a geekmail if you want more imput.

Posted Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:02 am
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Colin Hunter