Levels of Expertise
Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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"He plays a game with which I'm not familiar."
Bobby Jones said this about Nicklaus. Jack, in turn, used it for Tiger Woods. So I was thinking -- how many levels of expertise do the games I like have? (See the first entry for details).
Add your own, or just take issue with my guesses.
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1.
Board Game: Chess
[Average Rating:7.09 Overall Rank:245]
Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Chess has the ELO system of ratings. For the lower level of ratings, someone rated 400 points higher will almost never lose (assuming they are concentrating). Almost nobody who has played more than a few games (and is not very young) has a rating 1000.
1000 -- Novice 1400 -- Learning 1800 -- Tournament Average 2200 -- Master
After 2200, the rating scale tightens up so that 200 points (perhaps less) indicates an almost sure win.
2400 -- Senior Master 2600 -- Grand Master 2800 -- World Champion (To date, only 4 players have ever been rated 2800, so most world champions are a touch lower. This may be due to inflation).
So, in each step the higher rated player will rarely lose. Chess has roughly 7 levels of experience. The world champion(1) will almost never lose to a random grandmaster, who will never lose to a senior master, who will never lose to a master (4), who will never lose to an average tournament player, who will never lose to an intermediate player, who will never lose to a beginner (7).
[Of course, in reality, everyone has bad days.]
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2.
Board Game: Go
[Average Rating:7.77 Overall Rank:41]

Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Go also has ranks from Professional 9 dan (master), down to Professional 1 dan, then amateur 7 dan down to 1 dan, then 1 kyu (beginner) up to roughly 40 kyu (although past 15-20 kyu is all novice). My rough estimate -- 8 Levels (One more than chess).
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Here we come into an interesting situation. Sometimes the weaker player wins, because it's a game of chance. But if we start considering long enough matches then skill shows. How long do matches have to be? How many ranks are there? I'm not sure (I don't play tournament backgammon).
Rough guess, 4. Maybe 5. I'm basing this on commentary that the best computer players (which are considered to be slightly better than any human, at least according to the articles I've seen) have a roughly 1-2% edge over the best human players. A very small gap.
Novice, Intermediate, Master, Grandmaster/World Champion
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4.
Board Game: Bridge
[Average Rating:7.50 Overall Rank:175]

Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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I do play tournament bridge, and I feel somewhat comfortable claiming that it has at least 1 more level than backgammon (due to the complication nature of bidding, at least).
5 Levels. Maybe six.
Novice, Intermediate, Experienced, Master, Grandmaster
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Now lets look at those games of ours.
Clearly these aren't going to have as many levels as they just haven't been studied as much. And you get into issues of multiplayer games versus two (or teams). The "almost always win" has to be weakened further. Just to make definition easier, I'll just assume a long series of games and players do not use information outside the game they are currently playing. (Like ganging up because they are tired of losing to that same guy).
Puerto Rico clearly has levels. I win a lot more than my fair share in a group. But how many levels does it have? My gut feeling -- A generous 3.
Novice, Intermediate, Expert.
Instead of PR, I could have probably listed Caylus here. I think it has a similar number.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Power Grid is another popular game, and certainly has skill. But it has less levels than Puerto Rico. In a game with experienced solid players, novices lose. But I'm not sure there's anything past that.
Two levels -- Novice, Experienced
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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[You knew I was going to do this, didn't you?]
A high-luck game, but I still win close to 75% of my games in the local group (several of my opponents have hundreds of plays). Yet I've played games against the designer and players with thousands of games, and I'm definitely not a favorite in those. Race has two levels, but does it have three? I don't know. It may be too early to tell.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Initially, I had absolutely no idea if Catan has even two levels. I've played with my 9 year old daughter, and she wins sometimes ... but having decided that games with luck should be viewed as a series of games, you can't just count an individual game.
Would I expect her to win a "First to 5 games" series? No. I haven't played tournament games, would I be seriously outclassed by the people who play Settlers hundreds of times, so that its unthinkable that I'd win a series? My gut feeling is no. So I'm going to call it two levels.
2 Levels -- Novice, experienced.
I think it's safe to say that any game with real decisions will probably resolve to two levels at least, unless the decisions are just completely swamped out by luck. (Or you define a very long series as the test).
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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I lost my first 10 games of 1830. Badly. A few years later, when I taught a new group, I won their first dozen(ish) games. So two levels at least. Is there a third level? I'm not sure. Another 2.5, I guess.
Novice, Experienced, Expert(?)
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Just to point out that it's not all about the analytic games. Time's up easily has two levels in my opinion, and might have three. I've sat in games where after (random) partnerships were dealt out, everyone demanded that X and Y be separated, since they were the two best players. Partially because they know more pop culture, but also because they know all the tricks of the trade for when you get stuck. And also the universal gesture to signify David Letterman.
A generous three levels, I'll say.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Trivia games (in general) appear to have 4 levels, maybe more.
Ignorant > Alert > Knowledgable > Walking Encyclopedia
(Witness Ken Jennings, etc).
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Word games are probably a special case of trivia games, and probably have four-ish levels. No doubt some of you tournament scrabble players can be more specific.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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The grognards can be more specific, but I think that some of the wargames (if not all) have three levels (Novice > Intermediate > Expert). Again, the more luck the game has, the more you'd need to use a series to decide.
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14.
Board Game: YINSH
[Average Rating:7.68 Overall Rank:65]

Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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In theory, an abstract that was as deep as chess (or go) could have 7-9 levels. But since they don't have nearly as much published analysis, I'm guessing that limits the differences between the average master player and the best player. (And also keeps people like me from knowing if the game is as deep as chess or go).
Four levels?
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15.
Board Game: Tichu
[Average Rating:7.73 Overall Rank:36]

Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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I refuse to speculate, as I have a wife and family. Spare them. I'll throw this open ... first partnership to win 5 games (to 1,000 points) -- how many levels? I'd feel somewhat comfortable saying three (The best pair in the world will always beat a reasonable experienced pair, who will always crush the newbies). I won't say four. Would you?
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Ah, a wargame that people have played 1,000s of times. I'm not qualified to comment.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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On the other hand, I have played this enough to feel confident that there are three levels. and probably a fourth. I'm not sure, but the same people keep showing up in the finals at nationals (which is a lose once and you are out tourney). (Again our discussion requires a series of games, and some matchups are more luck dependent than others).
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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Are levels even possible in Diplomacy? Assume you are playing with hidden identities (so that you don't know England is a world champion), then undoubtedly. Persuasion is a skill like strategizing. As to how many levels, I don't know. I guess three.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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It seems to me that there should be at least 4 levels. Billiards probably has one more level beyond that. I would think that most physical activities (like sports) are on the order of Chess or Go, or perhaps even more.
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Brian Bankler
United States San Antonio Texas
Modified Limited Rampage!
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I just can't be convinced to go past three levels for any CCG, even with the series of games constraint. Too much luck. (And some of them may not even have that). Of course, this opens up a whole can of worms on how to handle deckbuilding skill...
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21.
Board Game: Poker
[Average Rating:6.77 Overall Rank:471]

Chris Franka
United States San Antonio Texas
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I'm curious about poker. Not necessarily a single tournament, but perhaps a ring game situation.
I just don't know on this one...six? Just a guess.
1) Novice 2) Occasional no-stakes player (for fun on internet or home games) 3) Consistently regular cash games on internet or home games 4) Expert in internet/face-to-face games 5) Professional player 6) Top-tier professional player
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Craig Viau
United States Aurora Colorado
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Here is a "game of ours" which due to the rules and power combinations available as well at team building, map choices and move choices would have 15 levels based on a comparison to Chess. There are also other abstract games that have many more possible moves than chess and are deeper. Although the number of possible moves does not have a direct correlation to skill levels because that many moves are beyond human ability to analyse and the depth of historical study also limits the current possible levels of play.
Therefore although in time and in theory there may be more levels in current practice there are less levels.
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23.
Board Game: Titan
[Average Rating:7.08 Overall Rank:317]

Brian Darnell
United States Davis California
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Here's a game that has lots of dice, but the better player usually wins. I'd say it has three major areas that require different skills:
1. rules knowledge / memory of stacks 2. masterboard play 3. tactical battles
Each of these is important and has a learning curve to it. I've probably played Titan against human opponents several hundred times. I know folks who have played it thousands of times and they have a deeper understanding and will usually beat me.
I'm not going to say it has a certain number of levels of expertise, but if you played it two player against the same person repeatedly, the better player would win most of the time.
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All your base are belong to us
Canada Montreal
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Two levels:
Beginner - You play Monopoly Expert - You know better
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Craig Peterson
United States Provo Utah
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Though some will undoubtedly take issue with this, I would say checkers has the same number of levels as chess or go. I am an ardent lover of all three.
While it is surely less complex, no human is capable of perfect play. Thus, ability is determined to a larger extent by your ability to probe further ahead.
I still question whether there will ever be another like Marion Tinsley.
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