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Intense elegance
Thi Nguyen
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THE MYSTERIES OF INTENSELY ELEGANT MULTIPLAYER GAMES, DISCUSSED, EXPLORED, AND YET STILL MYSTIFIED BY

There is a quality I truly love - a kind of severe elegance. I don't mean relative elegance, like, say, Hannibal, which has a hell of a lot of rules, but a good rule/complexity ratio. I mean games with a hard, ultrasimple ruleset. Maybe two minutes to explain, maybe, at tops, 4 minutes.

Some games, like, say, El Grande or Puerto Rico, as you read through the rules, you tend to get a sense of what's coming. Not all the details, but where the meat is, where you're going to do all you're thinking. It's there, in the rules, you can see it. You're braced for impact.

Other games - like, for instance, Intrige, you hear the rules and think, "Alright, this is gonna be dull," and then in play, you get shocked to hell. Because somewhere in the interaction of those 5, 6, 8 rules, some sort of bizarre, mysterio-magic happens, and the game sits up off the table and eats your soul.

So I want to look through some of these games - games where some weird spitfire magic happens from a very simple ruleset - and figure out where the hell the magic came from.

One note: I'm only looking at multiplayer games, here. Two player abstracts are too easy. I mean, go - that's like the definition of intense elegance in games. But it's too easy. You can see where the complexity comes from. There's some veyr large decision space, some geometric interaction between the pieces, possible future geometric decisions - and blammo, depth, intensity, perhaps majesty. It's pretty easy to see how a set of geometric movement rules or a set of geometric placement/capture rules spawns complexity and interest.

I'm interested in the other stuff.

What I'm not interested in, though, is simple rules -> simple play. Kardinal & Konig is a likeable game, but there's no sense of *take-off* for me, of a system of choices and nuances suddenly assembling itself in midair from a minimal ruleset. With Kardinal & Konig, a low-complexity system with some tension is loaded into your head with the rules, and then you play it out. Fun, but not magic.

Most of my favorite multiplayer games - El Grande, Taj Mahal, Tigris & Euphrates - don't fall into this category. But I always savor the ones that do - half out of love for play, half out of a sense of their rigorous beauty.

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1. Board Game: Intrigue [Average Rating:6.39 Overall Rank:1062]
Thi Nguyen
United States
Los Angeles
California
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Dorra is a minor (or maybe major) master of this sort of thing. Intrige is my boiled-down alliance game of choice - a kind of gorgeous, spare thing, about one minute to explain.

You are both employer and paterfamilias. You put your siblings into the houses of your fellow players' houses to jockey for employment, you give their potential employers bribes, and they choose one employee. Then all the employees get paid. It goes round and roudn again and then it ends.

WHERE'S THE MAGIC?

I think it's in the system of interdependencies that build up. You're *employing each other's siblings.* So you immediately have power over one another - you hire my brother, I'll keep your stupid goddamn slob of a cousin as my accountant, even though he's a good for nothin'. But if you give that job to that scumbag Pelli's good for nothin' son...

Some people make out like Intrige is a nothing game, just a platform for negotation with nothing but an amusing theme. It isn't. The system provides the bare minimum to give you a vibrant network of growing interdependencies between the players, and then turns you loose to fight it out.
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yegods
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sounds like i wouldn't like this much. i have never liked the purer negotiation games: I'm the Boss, Shanghai Traders, Diplomacy. don't know why. maybe i just don't like it when negotiations go wrong. I guess i wouldn't make a very good Diplomat.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:49 pm
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Mike Chase
United States
Fremont
California
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I own it but haven't played it yet. You're convincing me to try it.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:10 pm
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Morgan Dontanville
United States
Brooklyn
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I don't understand why you would have to be convinced to play the games that you've bought.
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:47 pm
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2. Board Game: Marracash [Average Rating:6.85 Overall Rank:772]
Thi Nguyen
United States
Los Angeles
California
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Chuckles, where are you? This game will knock your socks off.

I just played Marracash for the first time last night, and I had to sit around in awe and wonder at the beauty and majesty of the rule-set.

Here's another Dorra game, that you can teach to somebody in about two minutes, and then weird magic starts to happen on about turn 3. You auction of stalls of various colors and/or move tourists of various colors through the city. When a tourist paces a stall of his color that's owned by a player, the tourist goes in. The player owning the shop gets money (more for each further tourist in that same shop).

THE MAGIC

First, I think there's some very intelligent map design in it. The odd limitations on how far the tourists can move is really right - but that's not mysterious, that's probably just work and lots of playtesting.

The inspiration between the system is, I think, again, like Dorra's Intrige, a growing system of interdependencies. Some are obvious - like the cutbacks. if you move tourists into another person's stall, you get a cut. The meat, though, is in the subtler, less mechanical interdependencies.

Different owners with shops close to each other will start to cooperate, for purely selfish reasons. They'll start directing the flow of traffic towards those shops. And that's where the heart of the game lies - detecting the flow of traffic, people's intentions, and then setting up shops so that people will start helping you with every move they make. Or subtly changing the flow of traffic.
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yegods
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CA
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now this one sounds interesting. is the board static as far as the colored stalls are concerned? how does each player get the stalls of a certain color?
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:51 pm
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ralf gutzeit
Canada
toronto
ontario
Marracash is an excellent game...with the right group. How many times has that little qualifer come up. In this case, it's true. You can't take this game lightly or bad things start to happen. The balance can get thrown off. Anyway, still a wonderful game, with the right group. Can get nasty.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:01 pm
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Dana More
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Garden Grove
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Great game. I knew after I played this the first time, I had to have to it. This game for me is almost perfect in it's complexity level, interaction, and length of play. A LOT of game packed into a relatively (45-60 minutes) short time.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:13 pm
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Morgan Dontanville
United States
Brooklyn
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Here's some chum for the sharks...

Man, I searched forever for this sucker. I couldn't figure out why it NEVER came up on Ebay. Then, of course, I looked at the logo on the cover and saw that the C is capitalized. After entering it in with two words "Marra Cash" all of a sudden there were a ton of these available. Silly me. I got mine cheap.

I hope that help everyone that is looking for it.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:54 pm
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Chuck Uherske
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Rockville
Maryland
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OK, Thi, I finally got the game.

Have played twice. I can't find my socks anywhere.

You've got me pegged, and you've got the game pegged. I hope it stands up as well to replays -- the first impressions have been fantastic.

I too feel the intense minimalistic elegance of the game. It has auctions, but the auctions don't overwhelm it, they have an understated role. The real essence of the game lies in the tactical quasi-cooperative play. I often don't take well to games that seem cooperative and kingmakerish, but in this case it seems like sheer genius. Every player can transparently see how they can help others while helping themselves, and figuring out how to generate those situations and bait others into them is really an art (one I haven't mastered, for my first two results were awful.)

It has impressed me so much that I'll probably be searching for Dorra designs a bit.
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:41 pm
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3. Board Game: Daytona 500 [Average Rating:7.24 Overall Rank:450]
Thi Nguyen
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A game with maybe three movement rules for cars. And yet - captivating fun.

THE MAGIC

Like a lot of Kramer games, weird magic happens partly because of the complexity stored, not in the ruleset, but in the hardware. Here, we're talking the deck of cards. The cards are odd, if you haven't played this game. It's that you end up with a set of cards, most of which will force you to move many cars forwards, including your oppoenent's.

I think the real force of the magic comes from one particularly subtlety: that you get your cards *first*, then you try to buy some cards, and that you get *all* your cards.

So instead of a raw simple turn-by-turn decision process based on what cards you happen to have in your hand, you get to make a grandiose scheme for the whole race - and hopefully one that's flexible enough to deal with the meddling of your oppoenents.

That impresses the hell out of me - that out of three movement rules, and the little touch of giving a person *all* their cards at the beginning, you get serious longterm thinking, even for as sweet and light and delightful a game as this.

(I'm convinced, by the way, that a lot of the savor of El Grande emerges for the same reason - that you're given a set of power cards from the very beginning, all of them, and you have to keep the whole tempo of power struggle in mind at every point. Kramer, more than any designer, loves this thing I think - giving you something all from the beginning. Think of the master version of Torres - even think of each round of 6 NIMMT.)
 
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Chuck Uherske
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Rockville
Maryland
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I am loving this game based on a few plays though I haven't quite cracked the secret of balancing long-term planning, short-term reaction, and the interplay between the auction and the race itself.

What I really like about this game is that there are basically four things that affect how your car gets moved: the numbers on your own cards, how others move you, whether your car is in position to be "drafted," the relative position with which you enter the turns. Managing each of these is pretty intricate! If you zip ahead, odds are you'll handle the turn better but penalize yourself with respect to opposing players' moves. If you hang back, others will move you more, but you might have to waste moves in the turns.

Depending on the relative role of luck I eventually detect in this game, this one could zip close to the top of my favorites list. It's at a somewhat provisional "8" now, but it feels like it will end up higher.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:54 pm
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Thi Nguyen
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I feel like luck is extraordinarily low in this game.

It's not like you get dealt a small number of cards, or you have to do that thing where you pick from the face-up cards, and there's a huge amount of randomness in which cards come up before your turn...

You get dealt *all* the cards. The numbers of cards you get are so high that a bum hand is almost impossible. And besides, it's not even like you take some cars and get dealt the cards. You get to examine your full hand and *then* select your cars. Whether you go for one to win and the other car to drop into last, or two middle placers, or...

Also, in my group, the same people tend to place the same way every time, so...
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:00 pm
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kevin long
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Washington
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when i read the header this was the game that came to my mind - this game is golden and a staple in my diet! In fact i just pulled it out for the saturday board gaming session hello Damian and Rachel
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:11 am
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Chuck Uherske
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Rockville
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We've played it three times but the group consensus seems to be that the person with the most white 5 cards has an advantage -- he can move any car he wants, without moving any of the opponents'. Conversely (is that the right use of the word?), a person with no wild cards at all seems to be disadvantaged -- I know I always cringe when I open my hand and find nothing but "6-5-4-3-2-1" and similar cards.

I do think skill is important -- one player in our group has struggled consistently, whereas in our three games I've finished 1st, 2nd, and 2nd. But we did have three different winners in our three games, and heat to heat, it seems at least to us as though the winners bounce around a lot.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:52 am
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Damian Evans
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Spokane
Washington
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Unfortunatly the "magic" makes me park my wifes cars in bad places.

Her cars stop.
My mouth goes.
Abuse ensues.

Thanx alot Kevin.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:17 pm
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4. Board Game: Modern Art [Average Rating:7.37 Overall Rank:112]
Thi Nguyen
United States
Los Angeles
California
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Modern Art is extraordinarily easy to explain. The scoring is, unlike a lot of Knizia, dead simple - make money. There are four auction types, which are deadly easy to explain. There's the build in scoring, and that's it. On this list, this might actually be the one that takes the *least* amount of time to explain.

It looks, on the face of it, deadly calculational. But instead, you get serious psychological interplay, figuring out of intentions, high possibility for telepathy, bluff, and all of that. And aching, aching drama.

THE MAGIC

Two things, I think, are primarily responsible.

First of all, serious drama from the buildup of prices across seasons. There is a very simple mechanism in play by which prices amp up - and a pretty dramatic one. With cutoffs. I mean: there's a magic cutoff, where a single misplayed card (or well-placed screw) can change the value of a card in one round from a huge amount to nothing. So you get massive drama, climactic builds in value, and major turning points in play.

Second thing: though the game is played in four rounds, and you do get some extra cards at the beginning of each round, you get almost all your cards in the beginning. This, I think, builds majorly off of the first thing above, the amount of drama that's under your control. Because then you can *plan*.

So out of simple auction rules, and a simple score-building rule with a dramatic cutoff, and the fact that you start with most of your cards in your hand, you get - an hourlong tussle of long-term market manipulation, big plans, failures, successes, turnarounds.
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Gerald Cameron
Canada
Unspecified
Nova Scotia
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When I read the introduction to this list, this was THE game that I thought of.
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:01 pm
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Chuck Uherske
United States
Rockville
Maryland
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We have played this game once. We spent the next several days dissecting it by e-mail.

I love that.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:57 pm
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David Bohnenberger
United States
Swarthmore
Pennsylvania
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This is among my most-played games of the last five years, and I tend to win it pretty often. People ask me what my "Strategy" is, and I tell them "I dunno".
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:22 am
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Damian Evans
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Spokane
Washington
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I feel non-gamers would enjoy the simplicity of this gem too. I cant believe Knizia fit so much game into such a small, inexpensive box.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:14 pm
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Stan Mamula
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I just played this game for the first time this weekend and was very impressed for many of the reasons you've described.

As the rules were being explained, I was thinking that the game would be a bit too calculating for me. But, once it started, that all changed. I look forward to playing this one again.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 4, 2005 5:32 pm
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5. Board Game: Acquire [Average Rating:7.43 Overall Rank:99]
Thi Nguyen
United States
Los Angeles
California
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THE SOURCE OF MAGIC (at least one)

Acquire, more and more I realize, is the spiritual grandaddy of so many of the games I love.

This is the game, I think, the genuinely solved the problem of serious multiplayer gaming. (This may be completely wrong, I ain't no historian, so somebody tell me if what I'm about to say is poppy-rubbish, and let me know the real sources.)

The problem seems to be that most serious games before this were geometric. Multiplayer geometric games rarely work, not with any intensity. I'm never quite sure why. I think they tend to rely on a long-term rigid calculational aspect that really gets destroyed in multiplayer game.

Multiplayer chess variants all suck hard. (When you're on the same board. Bughouse is an odd and fascinating solution.)

But Acquire is the first game I think that took the complexity out of a geometric space and pushed it over to a more abstract, less physical space - a stock-market model.

There's a board, but the board is, in the end, pretty minimally interesting. It's just the base. And notice - there's no geometric complexity at all to the board. No one spends there time studying all the possible plays-counterplays on the physical space. Sackson destroyed that possibility with the ultrasimple geometric rules and random tile draw.

The board reduces to: which companies are big, which can I build, and which ones are likely to merge. It's an abstraction of business conditions, it's an easy visual way to represent certain likelihoods, but IT IS NOT THE INTERESTING PART OF THE GAME.

The complexity is all pushed into something non-physical - a money market. A place where you have a vague sense of who owns what, are trying to figure out who would increase the value of what when they could, and a constant competition over ownership.

That's the neat thing - ownership, pushing stock values up - those are essentially non-geometric, and essentially multiplayer-happy concepts. It's a sort of space that everybody has equal access to, in a way.

It's frickin' magic.
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June King
United States
Unspecified
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What he said.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:23 pm
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Chuck Uherske
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I can't beat that. And it is magic. And it is the grand-daddy of them all.

Having said that, I do think there's a little more in the physical game for me. I'll admit, it's not that complicated, figuring out which chains are more likely to bump into one another. But it sure is fun making that bet, and not just watching it play out, but somehow in your 1/4 or 1/5 of the placements, inducing it to play it out in the way you visualized. That is way cool.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:04 pm
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Chuck Uherske
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No, wait, the "Grandaddy of them all" is the Rose Bowl. Straight from the archives of the Overused Network Television Advertisement Phrases. I was well sick of that promo even before I'd entered adolescence.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:07 pm
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Chester Ogborn
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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You're right. I think Acquire is a tradition unlike any other.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:23 am
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6. Board Game: Princes of the Renaissance [Average Rating:7.55 Overall Rank:172]
dani simon
Spain
alicante
alicante
this one it's the multiplayer image of intense elegance as you describe it right now.

My group is really hooked up with this one. We are looking for more games of Martin Wallace as this is the only one we own right now.
If you are looking for intense elegance I strongly recommend you to give this one a try.
 
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Thi Nguyen
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This may get a lot of bang for the buck - but I'm talking about the kind of magically elegant creations that get complexity out of, like, a page or two of rules.

I've read the rules. They're cool, but they're not *that*.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:58 pm
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David Brain
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And that's why it belongs here. Yes, you've *read* the rules. They are, what, about three pages, and most of that is a longer-than-necessary explanation of wars.
Play it, and suddenly everything starts to interact in subtle and mysterious ways. I think that meets your criteria.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:49 pm
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Thi Nguyen
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There are two criteria, here:

1. Intense, mysterious interaction that happens when the rules get put into play.

2. Rules explanations in about 2 minutes, 5 minutes tops.

Tons of games meet #1. Lots of wargames, f'rinstance. Hannibal is a prime example.

It's not just the interaction of the rules. It's the kind of severe, asutere rule-set, where there are, truly, really, tiny.

 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:19 pm
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7. Board Game: Meridian [Average Rating:6.03 Overall Rank:2694]
Mary Weisbeck
United States
Black Hawk
South Dakota
Even virtual dice hate me!
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I believe this game fits the type of game you're looking for. When I first got it (as a gift), I read the rules and set it up to check out alone. Boring. Not my thing at all. And put it on my trade list. But a friend borrowed it and played with his wife then brought it back and said, "you've GOT to play this". So I gave it a shot and was truly taken with the mechanics which, being Colovini, are totally unique.

Reading the rules or explaining them do not begin to reveal the depth of this game. The ability to move, remove or rearrange a stack of pieces is the most powerful rule in the game; the cards played are left showing so there's minimal hidden information; the play is done vertically but the scoring is horizontal.

An excellent Colovini game (abstract with a thin veneer of theme).
 
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Morgan Dontanville
United States
Brooklyn
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And if anyone is curious to check this out I have a copy for trade! Mary, I respect your opinion, but I'm firmly planted in your first impression.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:26 pm
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8. Board Game: Diplomacy [Average Rating:7.12 Overall Rank:246]
Brodie Hodges
United States
Auburn
Washington
mb
Diplomacy has to be on this list.
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Thi Nguyen
United States
Los Angeles
California
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Yeah, I'd play this if I could. Never played it, sadly.

Every time I mention it, all my friends get these weird shifty looks in their eyes, like, "Oh man, I love that, wait, I can't do that anymore, oh man, oh man..." and then they start shaking.

Don't know what that's about.
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:28 pm
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kevin long
United States
Vancouver
Washington
designer
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hardly an elegant rule set as described in the header. Doesn't this game require a rules lawyer to keep the game running?
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:17 am
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Nate Sandall
United States
Portland
Oregon
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Diplomacy definitely fits the description. I can't ever get my friends to play this, but I did join some tournaments put on by a face to face Diplomacy organization here in town that were a blast. I'm bored to tears by the metagame these people play, but getting into a game with these guys (and girls!) is so intense and fun that there's nothing quite like it! All your insecurities come right to the forefront for everyone to see and everyone is looking for somebody they can trust fully knowing that they can't trust anybody! Emotions run hot and you get an adrenaline rush that few (if any) other games can even begin to give you.

The Diplomacy isn't "The Game" for me though. It's another great entry amongst the games I love in this hobby of mine as a whole. But playing Diplomacy with some people who prefer this game to no other is totally worth doing once in a while and you too can then experience the magic.

And funny thing, lots of these Dip hobbyists are quite partial to Poker. That's another game that might belong on this list even though I'm not very fond of it.

 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:45 am
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Brodie Hodges
United States
Auburn
Washington
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There's no need for a rules lawyer if played in person. The game is simple enough that its been been a PBM game since long before there were PBEM games. In such cases there is usually a ref that compiles the moves and mails back the results. What makes this such a great game is all the stuff that is not covered by the rules: Negotiations, alliances, and back-stabbing. The biggest problem with the game is that a couple of the countries start out in stronger positions than the others, but that is still no guarantee of victory.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:41 am
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9. Board Game: Through the Desert [Average Rating:7.16 Overall Rank:191]
Tom "Snicker Daddy" Pancoast
United States
Richmond
Virginia
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When I saw this list, I thought of Through the Desert. I have yet to see any multiplayer game with such simple rules that lead to such varied decisions without inducing brain lock.

The magic in this game lies in the fine balance between strategy and tactics. The effect of each placement is both subtle and powerful.

You only have one or two camels to place each turn. You only have four or five areas to consider for placement. Each placement changes the board, but usually not enough to throw all your plans into chaos (barring an oversight), so the thinking you did on previous turns in not wasted.

You also can't just pick a plan and continue with it until the end. There is an ebb and flow that means you might have to set your plans aside to defend your largest caravan, or to block someone else. If you stick doggedly to one strategy, then you are missing opportunities or creating them for you opponents.

For me, intense elegance is how the simple rules lead to a Zen-like balance in this game.
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John Brier
United States
Aventura
Florida
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this is also the game i thought of when i read the description at the top. knizia games generally have the ability to take an elegant simple ruleset and make a hell of a game out of it. medici is another example of this.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:42 pm
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Phil Shepherd
United States
Bristow
Virginia
Be on your guard. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.
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Couldn't agree more, Tom! I could play this baby all day if I could get the takers.
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:00 pm
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Chester Ogborn
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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This was the game I immediately thought of, too.

You open the board and think, "nondescript". You go through the rules and think, "This sounds almost boring." Place 2 camels. Not much 'action' there. Then you begin to play.....and the genius strikes you!

 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 4, 2005 6:37 pm
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10. Board Game: Botswana [Average Rating:6.61 Overall Rank:725]
Joe Gola
United States
Redding
Connecticut
Eleven.
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When I think of elegance & magic, I think of Reiner Knizia. One of the best examples, in my mind--well, THE best example is Schotten-Totten, but Thi's limited the scope to multiplayer games--is Flinke Plinke, a.k.a. Quandary, a.k.a. Loco. The rules and components are absurdly, even childishly simple, and yet it is an incredibly clever and timeless game, without a doubt the highest bang-per-word-of-rules I know of. Sure, it's on the light side for serious gamers, but even so it has an interesting deduction element to it and so there is a little more there than first meets the eye. When you start to see how much game Knizia can get out of such a little idea, it becomes a lot more understandable how it is that so many of his bigger games are just so damn good.

Other savagely elegant Knizia multiplayer games are Einfach Genial, Drahtseilakt, High Society and Royal Turf, though of course the stripped-down nature of these games means that they are are going to be on the light end of the gaming spectrum.
 
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11. Board Game: Cartagena [Average Rating:6.75 Overall Rank:464]
Steve Gross
United States
Unspecified
Michigan
On first reading of the rules (which took 60 seconds) for Cartagena I thought "Candy Land for adults." But it's much more. This game defines elegant mechanics for me. Spend cards to move forward. Move backward to get cards. That's it, but it provides a lot of replay value in my gaming group.
 
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12. Board Game: Kanaloa [Average Rating:6.44 Overall Rank:2596]
Paul Boos
Spain
Falls Church
Virginia
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Kanaloa (which has a 2 player equivalent - Kahuna) seems to fit this category. The magic happens with the ripple effects of when you bring one bridge down it may take out a whole bunch more. You can snatch victory away from the jaws of defeat - literally...
 
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13. Board Game: Senator [Average Rating:5.54 Overall Rank:5995]
Jorge Rodriguez
Spain
Madrid
Madrid
mbmbmb
2 Page Rules ( in 5 languages). After reading them, you think- " interesting, simple limited resources auction card game, very nice game components. Could be fun lets give it a try”
The you start playing and suddenly, as if by magic, you are transported to Ancient Rome and you become a Senator debating on the future of Rome, and competing for the position of Cesar. Intrigue, Diplomacy, Negotiation, Manipulation, Backstabbing and Assassinations come together in a intense gaming experience.

But how? Just from 2 page rules and some cards can this happened ( and a little imagination from the players of course). Well first you have very limited resources (cards) that represent your influences. Each player has only one assassin. And there are a lot of Agendas for debate. Everything is open so you know what cards the other players have and the agendas they have won. The game is full of interesting and tense decision. Should I spend influences on this agenda, or should I pass and save my influences for later ( but would I get a Chance to use them)?. Should I use the assassin? How can I manipulate others to use up their Influences?
Soon you find out that getting to many agendas of a same kind puts you in a risk of loosing all you have worked for and the only way to protect yourself is by winning the Consul. And last all agendas give the winner a special ability to use.
For me the magic comes from all the interesting decisions you have to make, and the interaction with other players trying to manipulated you to use up your resources for the good of Rome.

One of the things I enjoy the most is to see the face of the player who realizes all others have left him alone with the responsibility to stop the wining player and that he has to spend his resources while the others just sit and watch (smirking) as they destroy each other.
 
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Bob Wilson
United States
Northampton
Massachusetts
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Wow. I consider Senator to be one of my worst game purchases ever. I've been working on a re-write... not a variant, a complete re-write... because I wanted to be transported, but alas, was not, and neither were the 7 or so other players, some Munchkin players, one an ASL player, some Magic players, some RPG folks, some euro-game freaks... and this game failed to re-create Rome for all of them.

 
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  • Posted Wed Sep 6, 2006 9:52 pm
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Stephen Gassett
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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$13.00 or so? Get over it - at least you got a pretty game for your purchase.
 
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  • Posted Tue Oct 2, 2007 7:58 am
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Bob Wilson
United States
Northampton
Massachusetts
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Apocryphile wrote:
$13.00 or so? Get over it - at least you got a pretty game for your purchase.


I don't care how cheap it was, it ate-up time, and that's the problem, and not just mine, but of the pther players too. No need to be rude about it...
 
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  • Posted Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:28 am
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14. Board Game: So Long Sucker [Average Rating:6.45 Overall Rank:4409]
BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK
United States
Bozeman
MT
designer
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Invented by john nash and friends. Very much like intrige. Spare, perfect info., negotiation, and the magic comes from the same place: the complicated web of deals and contingincies that grows throughout the game. LUDICROUSLY simple rules, like an order of magnitude simpler than even intrige. I think it is especially easy to squeeze deep play out of simple rules for negotation games, since the players themselves invent many of the terms of play. I think some people disagree, since it at first seems like the ability to backstab makes all the deals sort of meaningless. But I don't think so. Just like in real life, the best negotiators are those who manage to craft terms that they don't have to violate; for example, deals that become void under certain conditions, etc. Players who never backstab get more deals coming their way and on better terms, and they do better as a result, just like in real life. It's usually better to lose a game by playing honest than to win with a stab, because you'll build a reputation that will help you win future games. You're overall record will be better than those who go for the stab. Therefore, these games really shine when played in series, under competetive conditions.
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Phil Shepherd
United States
Bristow
Virginia
Be on your guard. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.
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Great list, Thi!
 
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  • Posted Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:48 pm
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June King
United States
Unspecified
Bring me her heart in this box.
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I have a question. Thi is obviously well-spoken and intelligent. What's up with the banana avatar? All those insightful comments on games next to a picture of a banana with legs and a face. laugh

Is it from something?
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:02 pm
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Chuck Uherske
United States
Rockville
Maryland
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I don't know, but I'm not looking for a change! I love the avatar.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:19 am
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Brian Newman
United States
Portland
Oregon
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One I can think of right off is Kingdoms/Auf Heller und Pfennig. Reading the rules and looking at the components, I thought, "Ugh, this is gonna be dry as hell." Upon actually playing it, it's one of my group's new favorite filler games. It's quick with lots of competition and neighbor-screwing.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 4, 2005 4:15 pm
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Sue Hemberger

Washington
Dist of Columbia
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I agree about Kingdoms, although the other interesting aspect is that to prevent screwage, you strive to create structural conditions which align (literally!) your interests with those of other players. And that, to a great extent, depersonalizes the conflict.

I mention this because for people who play with family members, kids, or others who have a low tolerance for screwage, this is still a game worth considering. Our 7 year old loves it and focuses on the alliance aspect.

In general, I think that the elegance of Knizia's designs makes them great for kids.

Wonderful list, btw!
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 4, 2005 4:31 pm
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