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Mark Watson
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Francis Tresham's 1825 is a massively expandable train game about the early British railroads. It is based on his classic 1829 (now long out of print), and is an attempt to make that game more managable and playable. The game has 3 base sets and numerous expansions, including 9 Expansion kits (6 have been released) 4 Regional kits (3 have been released) and 2 kits of additional money.

With all these options, it seems useful to list all the bits and pieces (currently released) so that we can discuss which expansions work well together, what the trade-offs are, and so forth.
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1. Board Game: 1825 Unit 1 [Average Rating:6.80 Overall Rank:1674]
Mark Watson
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Unit 1 is a standalone game, as are each of the base units. Each focusses on a different geographic region. Unit 1 covers south east England.

It supports 2-5 players although some people say it works best with 4 or 5 and is alright with 3. With 5 someone will not get a private company and instead will start as the director of the LNWR.

This number can be increased by adding the other base sets. It can be used with Unit 2, but obviously cannot use Unit 3 unless Unit 2 is also in play.
 
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Chris Farrell
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Unit 1 is the most versatile of the base sets. It works best at the widest range of players (3-5), has 3 regional mini-expansion along with a half-dozen minor companies you can add. It's the most plausible single unit to use the Phase 4 options with. It's got the largest board with plenty of track-building options. I think it's the best starting place in general. The 2-player Unit 3 is good if you're going to be playing at that number a lot - but Unit 3 alone won't work with more than 2.
 
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:43 pm
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2. Board Game: 1825 Regional Kit R1: Wales [Average Rating:7.07 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.07 Unranked]
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Regional Kit R1 - Wales adds Wales to the the northwest edge of the Unit 1 board. It also includes two minor companies and several tiles.
 
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Mark Watson
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As sort of a follow up, how much additional money/time does unit 1 with all 3 regional expansions require?
 
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  • Posted Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:12 am
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David Yamanishi
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Shouldn't that be "to the northwest?"
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:51 am
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Mark Watson
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Um yes. Corrected!
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:45 am
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Mark Watson
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Alright, I found some source that suggests to add 1,000 pounds per minor company. So ~4,000 with all the regional kits.
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:33 pm
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Ferry
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Mark.Watson wrote:
Alright, I found some source that suggests to add 1,000 pounds per minor company. So ~4,000 with all the regional kits.


Do you remember what the source was?
 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 2, 2007 1:20 pm
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Michael Shaver
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Llanirev wrote:
Mark.Watson wrote:
Alright, I found some source that suggests to add 1,000 pounds per minor company. So ~4,000 with all the regional kits.


Do you remember what the source was?

I believe he may be referring to http://www.18xx.net/1825/1825f.htm. That's the only reference to money I have found.
 
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  • Posted Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:42 pm
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3. Board Game: 1825 Regional Kit R2: South West England [Average Rating:7.14 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.14 Unranked]
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Regional Kit R2 - South West England adds the remainder of the west of England to the bottom left of the Unit 1 board. Again, it adds a new minor company and adds additional tokens for the Great Western Railroad, as well as a handful of tiles.
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Mark Watson
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Does this imbalance the GWR at all? Or is this expansion more for when unit 2 is also being played such that LNWR & GWR have two starting points?
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  • Posted Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:16 pm
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J C Lawrence
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Mark.Watson wrote:
Does this imbalance the GWR at all? Or is this expansion more for when unit 2 is also being played such that LNWR & GWR have two starting points?


I haven't found that it makes the GWR overly strong. By pulling the GWR's interest to the west it gives the LSWR a larger opening (already a good company), which in turn actually lightens the load on the SECR/LBSC and makes it easier for one of them to be rather good and even makes it possible for both of them to actually be viable.
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  • Posted Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:59 am
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4. Board Game: 1825 Regional Kit R3: North Norfolk [Average Rating:7.09 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.09 Unranked]
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Regional Kit R3 - North Norfolk adds a tiny 2 hex board to the north east end of the Unit 1 board. It also includes a new minor company and a few tiles.
 
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Chris Farrell
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This is my favorite expansion, just because the board is so tiny! I get my money's worth just making fun of it when I introduce people to 1825.

The minor companies for the south board are nice for variety, and good with more players, but none of them are hugely strong. They all help to make outlying areas of the board (that are usually sparsely used with only the basic game) more interesting to develop. But they're all flavor, nothing that I've played with has been fundamentally game-altering, and it's not uncommon with smaller numbers of players for the minors to be completely ignored.

But then again, if you can set the right par, and get some multiple stock jumps, they can be a nice addition to your portfolio given the weakness of some of the majors in Unit 1.
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:21 pm
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5. Board Game: 1825 Unit 2 [Average Rating:7.68 Overall Rank:1424]
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Unit 2 is another base set. The geographical region it covers is the Midlands, so it is connected to top of Unit 1 and the bottom of Unit 3, either (or both) of which it can be combined with.

It supports 2-4 players, although the feeling seems to be that it is best with 3.
 
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Chris Farrell
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I played with 4 recently, and was acutally surprised that it worked quite well, because generally I'd do Unit 2 with 3 and Unit 1 with 4.

Unit 2 is probably overall a slightly weaker unit when judged by itself, because the range of players it supports is smaller (3-4), one major company - the NER - is a bit too weak IMHO, and it lacks Unit 1's many expansions (and Unit 2's one minor company expansion isn't very strong). On the other hand, it does play quickly, and is even more accessible than Unit 1.

I think Unit 2 + Unit 3 would be a really cool, wide-open game for 5. I haven't had a chance to try it yet though.
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:50 pm
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Mike Hutton
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I've done a full batch of company certificates and stickers for the tokens. I can upload it if you like.

Unlike Akke's lot, my charters match the colours on the company certificates, with the only exception of the R1 and R3 companies where I only have the "old" version of the certificates.

Let me know if you're interested.

Mike.
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  • Posted Fri May 6, 2005 2:08 pm
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Mark Watson
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Mike: I'd toss a couple geek gold your way for that too. Also, you should link your current version of the 1825 faq. I always seem to find your old version that has question marks for the monetary amounts.
 
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  • Posted Fri May 6, 2005 5:58 pm
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Sebastian Sohn
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How long does this game take?

It is not listed in the playing time section of BGG.

Thanks
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:49 am
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Mark Watson
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Your first game will be long, like around 3-4 hours. After that, 2 or 2 1/2 is probably about right. At least, that's my experience.
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:01 pm
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6. Board Game: 1825 Unit 3 [Average Rating:7.62 Overall Rank:1507]
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Unit 3 is the final base set. It covers Southern Scotland & Northumbria.

It is unique in that it supports 2 players only. Eventually, Regional Kit R4 will be added to expand it further into the north. It is the only Unit to include minor companies, and apparently makes them far more integral than in other units.
 
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Chris Farrell
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I never considered 2-player 18xx to be a very tempting game, so I was surprised how well Module 3 worked with 2 players. I bought it mainly because I wanted the option to combine with Unit 2; when I played it with 2 on a lark just to give it a try, I ended up really impressed. It's not something I'll play a lot, but I'm much happier with my purchase than I expected to be, and it's nice to have a meaty, 2 - 2.5-hour 2-player non-wargame.
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:54 pm
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Dave Berry
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One wierd point I noticed: when combining units 2 and 3, the rules say to use four '4' trains, but the two units only have three between them! Still, I suppose most people will have unit 1 as well, or you can easily make an extra train card, or even just play with three '4' trains.
 
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  • Posted Tue May 3, 2005 10:42 pm
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Mark Watson
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What does this Unit do so well that allows it to be the only 18xx that really works with 2 players? Is it the limited number of companies, smallish board, low starting money? Some combination of all of these things? Unit 1 clearly seems too large for 2 players, but could Unit 2 make a servicable 2 player game?

From the pictures, this looks like this unit has the most interesting board (lots of mountains, weird small town track endings, high density). I'll probably get around to purchasing it some point in the semi-distant future -- maybe when R4 comes out.
 
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  • Posted Tue May 3, 2005 11:15 pm
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Chris Farrell
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I think the main thing is just that it's built on the 1825 engine. The combination of stock-trashing and the loot-n-dump from the 1830 base engine would make a 2-player game far less interesting because you can't really own your opponent's stock.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 4, 2005 9:52 pm
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7. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit K1: Supplementary Tiles [Average Rating:7.39 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.39 Unranked]
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Adds 15 additional tiles to any of the 3 Units. A reasonable mix, nothing too imbalancing.
 
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Chris Farrell
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These are highly recommended. The brown track particularly in the basic set is a bit restrictive, and I like having the additional configurations available. 1830 vets will definitely want this, since this brings the total brown track mix more or less in line with that game.
 
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:26 pm
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Chris Farrell
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I should say too, that these are more important with Unit 2. The track in that module is very dense, highly concentrated around Liverpool and Manchester. Having a few more options for developing that network is a good thing IMHO.
 
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:07 pm
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8. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit K2: Advanced Trains [Average Rating:7.11 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.11 Unranked]
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Adds advanced and different trains to the game and is intended for Units 1 and 2. These trains are pretty interesting, but add just enough complexity that they probably shouldn't be used for the first few games, unless you are coming from a different 18xx game.
 
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Chris Farrell
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The 2+2 and 4+4E I like, although they don't get a lot of use. The others I think are only relevant if you're using the "narrow guage" track, otherwise the are just slightly more expensive 3 trains you can invest surplus cash in after the 3 trains are gone in the standard game (where the top train is a 5).

If the 3Ts were available simulataneously with the 3s, they might be more interesting.
 
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:29 pm
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Chris Farrell
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Quote:
Oh yeah -- the single track tiles are no longer included in regional kits, only version 1 of R1 (and maybe R3?) had those tiles. Instead, the regional kits (R1.1 and R3.1) now include Halt tiles to make 3T & 4Ts more useful.


Very interesting ... I didn't realize this had been changed (I have v.1 of the R kits). I always liked the "narrow guage" track in 1853, which the "single track" in 1825 emulates, sort of; but I never played with it in 1825. A shame it didn't work out, apparently.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 4, 2005 10:00 pm
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Mike Hutton
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If you have access to striped track, I have a variant which makes single track work really well. I'd only use it with the regional kits, and most importantly Wales. The rules are:

1. You can't lay single track unless you have a 'T' train.
2. Two yellow single track tiles *can* be laid next to each other on a single operating turn.
3. Only 'T' trains can run on single track. Optionally you can allow U trains to do so too.
4. In order to upgrade a single track hex you have to be able to reach it with one of your trains.
5. Small stations on single track do not count against the train total for 'T' trains.

When using this variant I tend to add one extra tile each of 87, 88.

The variant works like a charm.

Mike.
 
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  • Posted Fri May 6, 2005 2:22 pm
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Mark Watson
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FWIW: If you are really desperate for the single track tiles, you can order a kit from Heron Games for 1853 that has the same tiles. It costs £3.90 which is quite a bit for 16 tiles, but there you go. Stocks are low. If I ever order a set, I'll scan them since I suspect that the kit will sell out and the single track tiles will never return to 1825... Also, 18xx.net's tile encyclopedia doesn't have pictures of the missing tiles.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 11, 2005 5:42 pm
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Mark Watson
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Well, the tiles are sold out now, I see. Here's hoping someone scans them....
 
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  • Posted Wed May 18, 2005 6:20 pm
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9. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit K3: Phase Four [Average Rating:7.28 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.28 Unranked]
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Extends the game into the fourth phase. Includes 6 and 7 type trains and several tiles. It requires more money to play. Can be used with any of the 3 Units. I haven't played it yet, but I doubt that it really adds too many more turns. When companies really start paying dividends at the end of phase 3, the bank depletes extremely quickly.
 
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Nate Sandall
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So do the 6 trains kill the 3s and the 7 trains kill the 4s? Or is this different as well?
 
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  • Posted Thu May 5, 2005 1:40 am
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Mark Watson
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The 7s kill the 3s.
 
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  • Posted Thu May 5, 2005 3:27 am
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10. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit K5: Minor Companies for Unit 2 [Average Rating:7.33 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.33 Unranked]
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Adds two new minor companies and a couple tiles to Unit 2.
 
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Chris Farrell
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This is the only one that I've played with that I didn't like. Unless you're playing Unit 2 with 5 players (probably not recommended) or playing a combined game with another unit, I think these two minors are just not going to see play. Their bases are simply too far from the action and/or too hard to link in, and there are enough shares to get to your limits in decent major companies.

With a Unit 2/Unit 3 game, though, the Furness might be quite tempting.
 
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:24 pm
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Mike Hutton
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It's a matter of playing style as to whether the minors are used or not. Certainly I've seen games won and lost with the minors. The tricky one is the North Staffs. Give it an inch and it'll quickly take a mile. The Furness is much harder work, but you still get a perfect opportunity to pump extra money into the game.
 
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  • Posted Fri May 6, 2005 3:38 pm
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Mark Watson
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I just wanted to voice my annoyance that the Furness chips are black. If you don't want to print out stickers, at least with the other companies you can write their intials on the chip with a fine point sharpie. However, both the Furness and LNWR chips are black, requiring a sillier solution, such as whiteout or acrylic paint. I'll probably just bite the bullet and get some wood blocks and print some stickers if i were to end up playing with this expansion a lot.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 11, 2005 5:38 pm
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Chris Bailey
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A silver sharpie would work great for that. I bought one to highlight the #s on the trucks in Bootleggers and was very pleased with the result.
 
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  • Posted Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:55 pm
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11. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit K6: Advanced Tiles [Average Rating:6.94 Unranked] [Average Rating:6.94 Unranked]
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Contains 12 tiles that were not included elsewhere in the game, aside from some found in regional kits (such as 58). Any Unit may make use of them.
 
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Mark Watson
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Soft curve tiles without a town aren't included in the base game, but are added here. It was my understanding that this was do to some kind of play balance issue. GER, for instance, is more valuable with this addition, as it has trouble expanding to the northeast until phase two. Thoughts?
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:44 pm
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Mark Watson
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I of course mean soft curves with town aren't included in the base game. I got too negative.
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:05 am
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Chris Farrell
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The "halt" tiles are hold-overs from 1829, and we weren't sure we liked them the one time we used them in that game. They felt like pure hosers, and they're kind of nasty (they significantly damage your run, they can't be upgraded, and are very hard to bypass and tend to severely gum up the routes). So I'm not sure about them.

I was actually completely unaware that I had missed this expansion, so thanks for the list I now have a copy on order.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 4, 2005 9:57 pm
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Kevin Whitmore
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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cfarrell wrote:
The "halt" tiles are hold-overs from 1829, and we weren't sure we liked them the one time we used them in that game. They felt like pure hosers, and they're kind of nasty (they significantly damage your run, they can't be upgraded, and are very hard to bypass and tend to severely gum up the routes). So I'm not sure about them.


Do you realize that the halt tiles are ignored by all non "T" trains? Since they provide connectivity to 3 edges, I don't see them being a major "hoser". But I also fail to see the appeal of having an optional "10" stop for a T train...
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  • Posted Tue May 4, 2010 5:57 am
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12. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit K7: London, Tilbury and Southend Railway [Average Rating:7.20 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.20 Unranked]
Mark Watson
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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Adds a minor company to Unit 1.
 
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Mark Watson
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Ontario
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Alright, I admit fully that I haven't played with this company, but wouldn't the GER utterly dominate this minor? That said, I guess it is an incredibly profitable route, so it could be used to end the game in a hurry. I dunno. Do people like playing with this expansion?
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:40 pm
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Chris Farrell
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Cupertino
California
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The LT&S is more like a bond issue than a stock. It's got one route it can run that can't be expanded. So it's got a fixed payout which it will run from the turn it floats to the last turn of the game.

It can still be used to help fiddle trains and raise cash for other companies, though, so that's worth something, and there are choices about how to capitalize it. And it's run is decent. But this is not a minor company that you'll expend a lot of effort thinking about.
 
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  • Posted Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:33 pm
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Mark Watson
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Ontario
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Couldn't it buy a train and run the GER routes though? Maybe of value if you owned the GER and LT&S and built a shared route for them?
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:08 am
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Chris Farrell
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They have only one station, and that station has only one way out, so they can never run a second train.
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:42 pm
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Mark Watson
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Oh right, of course.
 
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  • Posted Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:45 pm
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13. Board Game: 1825 Extension Kit G1: Supplemental Money [Average Rating:4.50 Unranked] [Average Rating:4.50 Unranked]
Mark Watson
Canada
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Ontario
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Adds an additional 10,000 pounds to the game, as needed to make use of many of the expanions (assuming you don't take the money from some other game). It is my understanding, however, that there are no suggestions as to *how much* money should be added to the expansions to get them running correctly.

Some players also have noted that Unit 1 works best with an additional 1,000 in the bank.

There is also a G2 expansion that adds a weird denomination (33 dollar bills) for easier change-making. Some players overcome this by using poker chips instead of the paper money, which increases the speed of the game and makes things much tidier.
 
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Lorenzo Mele
Italy
Milano
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This is what I did. Poker chips speed up a lot the game and are easier to handle than paper money.
Recently I've joined a 18xx club which use an excel file to run all the economic calculation once the game enter a phase with 2+ OR. Once the OR are over and there is the market round, money is given to players.
I noted that this system extremely speed up the game.
We completed a 1870 4 player match in 4.5 hours, including the explanation of private companies and strategies for me.
 
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  • Posted Thu May 5, 2005 3:18 pm
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Mark Watson
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I use poker chips for people, paper money for the companies. Since company transactions are simpler/less fiddly than personal transaction/dividend payments the paper money works just fine. It's pretty rare for a company to have more than ~10 bills at a time.
 
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  • Posted Wed May 11, 2005 5:47 pm
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Chris Bailey
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Broomfield
Colorado
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Forgive my ignorance but is there a fixed amount of money in this game or could you just use a boatload of poker chips for the bank and not worry about how many you use?

I just bought Units 1, 2 and 3 with the supplemental tiles (K1) and the 3 regional kits (R1.1, R2 and R3.1) and I'm really looking forward to sinking my teeth into this. cool
 
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  • Posted Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:25 pm
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J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
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The bank sizes are listed at the start of each Unit's rule book. Typically it is 6K. You can also check the 18xx differences list for authoritative numbers. Most (all?) of the regionals add 1K to the bank.
 
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  • Posted Fri Jul 3, 2009 6:03 am
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14. Board Game: 1825 Development Kit D1: Additional Tiles [Average Rating:7.20 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.20 Unranked]
Michael
Germany
Ulm
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This 18xx kit augments an existing game. It supersedes previous Kits K1 and K6 and contains more tiles, 36 instead of the 15 in K1 and 12 in K6.
 
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Mark Watson
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I possess this now. 36 tiles is a lot for one unit.
 
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:56 am
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22 comments [Hide]
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Mark Watson
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Ontario
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Alright, I did a little googling (this list is becoming a testament to my ability to answer my own questions and talk to myself):

There are 3 extension kits that have never been produced but were planned:


M4. Steam Packet Lines. A set of Steam Packet Lines suitable for use with the various units.
...
M7 [M8 was renamed K7]Phase '5'. Trains and tiles that add an extra phase to the game.
...
M9 Reserved for Development Bonds
...
G2 Combined Share Price Index, listing all fourteen of the principal companies.


and that other add-ons are planned, although never dicussed,\.
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  • Posted Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:38 am
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J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
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Mark.Watson wrote:
It's been a few years since I wrote this list. Have there been any new 1825 developments in the last couple years?


Not that I've seen. I'd welcome news!
 
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  • Posted Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:07 am
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Kevin Whitmore
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New Mexico
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Great list! Very informative. Thanks for building it, and thanks to all for the attached comments.

I was quite late in wanting to get into 1825, and for the end of 2008 and the first half of 2009, could not find a store with any copies for sale. But I put my name in at Heron Games, and I was just informed that all three units are on their way to me.

So a big shout out to Heron Games for the service, and a word to others who feel this game system may be gone. Put your name in, and you may also get hooked up with some 1825.

I will probably have to dummy up my own expansions, but that is not a huge hurdle.
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  • Posted Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:40 am
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Kevin Whitmore
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New Mexico
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And what about K4? It is missing from the list. I do not have the source in front of me, but I recall reading somewhere that it was a computer program to assist conducting a game of 1825.

Did anyone ever get it? Any details to be shared?
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  • Posted Wed Feb 9, 2011 7:41 pm
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Mike Woodman


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K4 is _not_ a computer program, but the still missing Steam Packet Lines I liked so much in 1829 (and maybe covering the single airfield in Unit 3 as well?). I sincerely hope that they will be released!

The computer program you mentioned was the fourth expansion for 1829 (called MSK4) in the late Seventies. It ran on the Commodore PET ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET), as far as I remember.

Does anyone have one for me? I'd be curious - maybe it works in an emulator?
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  • Posted Mon Apr 4, 2011 3:28 pm
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