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Brian Morris
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Overland Park
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It was in 1994 that one of the wargame hobby's greatest innovations was created with the release of the game We The People by Mark Herman. It was the card driven wargame system.

The problem before We The People was how to include important historical events in a game that had a major effect on the conflict at the time without making it to linear? For example, the Emancipation Proclamation had a major effect in the American Civil War by allowing the creation of Black regiments, but how to include that in the game without saying it takes effect on an exact game turn and thus the players knowing and playing the game with that in mind. By including that as a card that can be played as an event, the event itself can be included in the game without being linier. So players never know when that event will occur or even if it will.

This system has now been used in a great number of different games in many different historical conflicts. From the American Civil War to WW I, Ancient Rome to the American Revolution. These card driven wargames are now some of the most popular wargames in the hobby and so I thought it might be fun to take a closer look at some of these card driven wargames and for people to chime in on what they like and don't like about this system.

Also I've noticed on the forum and on geeklists we often see people asking questions about the card driven games. What games are card driven, which are the best ones and so on. I figured it might be useful for some of those looking at the card driven games to have them all lined up so they can see what they have to choose from and hear what others have to say on them as well. Sort of like a new car lot but with games instead of automobiles.
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Posted Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:46 pm
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1. Board Game: We the People [Average Rating:7.53 Overall Rank:166]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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The very first game of this type was the Avalon Hill classic We The People. Rather a hard game to find now and expensive when you do as it's now out of print thanks to Hasbro's hording of certain older Avalon Hill titles. A classic I should say now but I remember when the game first came out and was looked at with skepticism by folks including myself.

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Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
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I think this may be my favorite game of all time. Yes, sometimes it can have an anti-climatic feel, when the War ends is coming and you have a crap hand, but the in-game tension of not knowing what the other player can do, and looking for the best way to play the hand you are dealt, and the neat "Euro-ish" concept of the Political control and isolation are exquisite. Not to mention is relatively light as wargames go, and easily playable in an evening...
Nick Stellato
United States
Sheffield Village
Ohio
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I agree with everything Brad says. This game is a winner. Brad also plays very well and has whooped up on me a number of times. In fact, I feel like challenging him again since I've got some spare time.
Gregory Smith
United States
Newark
California
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Except for the sad fact that this is out of print, this game is a good entry point for new wargamers interested in card driven wargames. The only thing I an ambivalent about regarding this game is the battle card system for resolving combat. I sure wish I owned the expansion.
Mattias Elfström
Sweden
Unspecified
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I have this game and the expansion. It is a truly great game both for introducing newcomers and for more serious play when you don't have a lot of time.
Mattias Elfström
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I forgot to say that it is on my Top 10 at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...
Ian Cooper
United States
Wakefield
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I still think this is the best of the card-driven wargames simply because of the balance between ease of play and historical realism. Basically I can pick this up even after years and get started within half an hour - I can't say that about any other wargame that I've played.

I still own this game - it's one of my 'most played' games. I wish the later card-driven games had kept to its simple rule format rather than making games in the genre progressively more complex. I'd have loved to have played a WW1 game with between 5 and 10 rules pages rather than Paths of Glory. Ditto for Wilderness War.
2. Board Game: For the People [Average Rating:7.50 Overall Rank:240]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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The second game by Mark Herman using his card system and some would say one of the best games to use it. This game was my actual introduction to this system and being a civil war buff, it has turned into one of my favorite games. First released by Avalon Hill, this game was improved and then rereleased under the banner of GMT where it went out of print and then like it's predecessor became extremely pricey and hard to find. It's currently on the GMT P500 list waiting for a reprint.

This card driven system while created and first used under Avalon Hill has become a mainstay of GMT games. Used not just by Mark Herman but also designers such as Richard Berg, Wray Ferrell, Mark Simonitch and Ted Raicer

Mattias Elfström
Sweden
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I have the AH version of this game and like it although I don't think it is as elegant as WtP above.
3. Board Game: Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage [Average Rating:7.99 Overall Rank:21]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Like it's predecessor We The People, this game is now in the hands of Hasbro and in mint condition will cost you...well a mint.

This game for me has one of the coolest looking mapboards of any of the games on this list. It just has a wonderful look and feel to it.

Zippadeedoodah
Netherlands
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Totally concur on this one. It's a brilliant game that not only looks good, but through the strategy cards gives a somewhat randomized but nonetheless historic feel to the game. One of my all-time favourites that I never regretted buying nearly 10 years ago.
Mattias Elfström
Sweden
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This is another great game in this series. It shows how the card driven mechanic matured from WtP. It is also on my Top 10 at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...
Steve Hope

Emerald Hills
California
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There's no doubt it's a great game. And I actually like the combat card system. But I don't especially like the "shared deck" phenomenon in CDGs--given how widely card quality can swing, I like the games that provide each player with their own deck.

But I haven't played it in a long, long time. Maybe I'd like it more now.
Paul - the
Sweden
Lund
Skåne
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Fantastic game, the only problem with it is if one player get the Messenger Intercepted card several times during the game.

I think it would have been better if the card had been like the one in WW where you have to roll 3-6 to actually succeed.
Jens Hoppe
Denmark
Frederiksberg
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By far my favorite historical wargame. All subsequent CDGs (that I've tried) have been disappointments in comparison.
4. Board Game: Successors [Average Rating:6.97 Overall Rank:727]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Richard Berg takes the plunge into the card driven world with this creation. Now out of print but it seems not for long as there are plans to make a new edition of this game a P500 release. I expect that if/when that happens it may set a record for shortest time to reach 500 on that list as this one is much anticipated by wargamers.

Like Hannibal, this one also has a very cool mapboard.

Zippadeedoodah
Netherlands
Amsterdam
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I also bought this one soon after it came on the market. Played it less frequently than Hannibal, mostly because it is better with more players. The board looks brilliant and the cards and bits are very nice.
Mattias Elfström
Sweden
Unspecified
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This game adds a multi-player dimension to the card-driven mechanic games. I like it a lot, but it plays better with the 2nd edition rules (found on the net). Note that there was a nice expansion in the General. This is on my Top 10 Multiplayer games at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...
Steve Hope

Emerald Hills
California
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I always liked this game, but I think my wargaming friends thought it felt a bit too random. Overall, I think most multiplayer CDGs suffer from the same problem as most multiplayer wargames--very hard to allow the players interact with each other without allowing it to turn into "Diplomacy with dice". This game was actually better at it than most, but at the cost of having one person usually start in a dominant/threatening position so that most of the game seemed to be chasing after whoever was the current leader hoping to prevent him from winning.
Paul - the
Sweden
Lund
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*raises hand*

I really hope they publish it soon but there's not much talk about it so wonder how the negotiations are going? Who is holding up, the designers or GMT (or whoever is going to Publish it)?
Matthew Barratt
United Kingdom
Royal Leamington Spa
Warwickshire
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It's only just gone onto the p500 list and its already at 212!
5. Board Game: Paths of Glory [Average Rating:8.08 Overall Rank:20]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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From the end of the Avalon Hill era we move into the GMT era so to speak with Path of Glory which was one of GMT's first card driven games and some would say the best. It's currently ranked #10 on the BGG top rated games right behind Hannibal at #9. In fact you will find the card driven games rank very high here on BGG. Pretty impressive when you think about the fact that there are very few WW I games out there. Mostly because of the image of the war just being one of trench warfare.

By the way, if you own this game you might know that there is a fantastic players guide for it now sitting on the P500 list, getting ready to hit 500. Well worth picking up if you own the game.

David Seddon
United Kingdom
Loughborough
Leicestershire
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This is sitting in my cupboard waiting to be played, but until I master WW more, I ain't moving on to this one.
Mattias Elfström
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David Seddon
United Kingdom
Loughborough
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Yes, I am looking forward to this. I too have been flagging up bits of the P500 list on the Forum from time to time - I odered the PoG players guide yonks ago and want me mits on it!

I
Paul - the
Sweden
Lund
Skåne
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So how do you play it?

Do you play the vanilla campaign or Ted Raicer's optional setup?

I'm dying to try this game out. Some day...
Magnificent Octopus
United States
Houston
Texas
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I didn't really care for this one... but then again I didn't care for third riech (or the like) either.
6. Board Game: Wilderness War [Average Rating:7.78 Overall Rank:162]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Maybe because the French and Indian war isn't as popular as military simulations are concerned but this game doesn't get as much notice as it's brethren despite the fact that it seems most folks who play it really like it.

The stand up leader counters are kind of different in this one.

Bill Eldard
United States
Unspecified
Virginia
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The game and its designer certainly got a lot of recognition. It won a Charles S. Roberts Award in 2001 for "Best Pre-World War II Boardgame". Wilderness War also was cited for "Best Wargame Graphics" that year, and designer Volko Ruhnke won the "James F. Dunnigan Award" for playability and design.

It's a great game, and does a wonderful job of capturing the French & Indian War.
Brian Morris
United States
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It got awards (and deservingly so) but in the wargaming community you don't hear it mentioned along the lines of say Paths of Glory, For the People or some of these other card driven games. This is likely because the French and Indian War isn't as studied as these others conflicts. In many ways it's overshadowed by the Revolutionary War and not as big as the Civil War and some of the European conflicts that take place in the same general era. That's part of the reason it's kind of nice to see this conflict covered so well in a game like this.
David Seddon
United Kingdom
Loughborough
Leicestershire
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I play this quite regularly on ACTS, though I have yet to master it. It is one of those games that takes at least ten plays before you start to feel competent - that hasn't put me off...I like a challenge!
Steve Hope

Emerald Hills
California
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I think this game is excellent, but it feels about 10-20% too short for some reason. There are 3 different possible avenues of advance for the British, and one of them (Louisbourg/Quebec) is highly dependent on the hands you get dealt. You often have to commit to it before you know whether you'll actually get the tools to accomplish anything. That can be frustrating, but the game can't go any longer because it usually ends right as the French are on the verge of collapsing. So it's got a curiously unfilling feeling, even though the play is great.
Paul - the
Sweden
Lund
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This game is the one most influenced by the luck of the draw of the CDG I've tried. I guess it was the designers intention but it can get weird at times.

I really like this game I do, but I wish there were a way of balancing out the reinforcements and stuff.
Mike Oberly
United States
Columbus
Ohio
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This is my personal favorite CDG, mainly because it's a lot simpler than some of the others, and the rules are extremely tight (some of the best written rules I've seen in a wargame, actually). My only complaint is that play can become a bit stereotyped, and some of the cards are maybe a little too powerful.

Still, this is one that I really enjoy.
7. Board Game: Empire of the Sun [Average Rating:7.34 Overall Rank:573]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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For the card driven games the point to point map system has in the past been the prefered map style of choice for game designers. In this case however Mark Herman has gone back to the classic hex map.

Alan Richbourg
United States
Arlington
Texas
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Studied it, played it, really wanted to like it, but don't. :(
Mikolaj Lenczewski
Poland
Warsaw
Warsaw
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One of my beloved CDGames :). Just playing and playing and sinking JPN carriers :arrrh:
Paul Glowacki
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
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My initial reaction was also not very positive, however, after a few months on the shelf, I pulled this one down and gave it another go. I am now fully immmersed in the game and I think it is a brilliant design.
Jim Lauffenburger
United States
Colorado Springs
Colorado
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I also really wanted to like it. But no such luck.
I can't quite put my finger on why I dislike it. Perhaps because the cards interact poorly: a) it has no early/middle/late card separation; b) there is no tension as to whether to hold a card or use it; c) there is no trade-off of using a card for replacements or ops or event.
Mark Herman
United States
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8. Board Game: The Sword of Rome [Average Rating:7.28 Overall Rank:336]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Played this one over the weekend and I think it's now taken it's place as one of my favorite 4 player wargames. Really a fantastic game. Most of these games are 2 player so it's nice to see a 4 player one and especially to see one be this good. What really makes this fun is that there are actually 7 players with 3 of the 7 being neutrals. These neutral powers can be activated by players using the card system. The result is the Greeks and Gauls have these neutral nations hanging over their heads. I played the Greeks this weekend and even though my goal was to wipe out the Carthaginians on Sicily early on, I was never quite able to and their existance was a major pain in the %#&.

Gregory Smith
United States
Newark
California
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This is a fantastic multiplayer card driven game. Each nation has its own deck, and this combined with very different national abilities, map positions, and victory conditions gives each nation a very different feel. The battles are dicey, but I believe that simulates historical results, where upsets were frequent.
Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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The combat system is rather simple which is great. It's a check of one chart to see if there is a size modifier and then you roll 3 dice and that's it. The game plays very smooth.
Chris Farrell
United States
Cupertino
California
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My feelings about this game are complicated. There is a lot of good stuff in there (I like the card decks for the most part), but there are also a lot of missed opportunities.

Several players I have played with (including myself) have had a bad reactions to the CRT. It's not so much the randomness that's annoying, but the insensitivity to outside factors. There is very little you can do to influence the outcome of combat. Stacks get built up, but odds don't matter that much, leadership isn't that varied, regional control doesn't affect allies like it does in Hannibal, cards tend not to be situational (they thend to be just a straight +2), losses are insensitive to basically all external factors ... so it seems to come down to a die roll that you just can't influence much and happening to draw the right cards at the right time. Clean, but frustrating; it seems inappropriate for a game this long.

This is another CDG that I really wanted to like more. I enjoyed my first few playings, and I'd play it again if friends wanted to, but it's not a game I'd suggest anymore.
David Seddon
United Kingdom
Loughborough
Leicestershire
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I have heard via a Geek Buddy who's been playing with the designer on ACTS that this one may be due for an over-haul with a few important rule changes. Apparently the designer agrees that a few changes could impove it and these are mainly about lowering the luck factor, I believe.

Nevertheless, Chris, I think that if Successors is much superior to this now, then when both games get there up-coming re-make, it will probably stay superior to it. It is common knowledge now that Successors 111 will have at least one new, shorter scenario, so that will help it's particular weakness.
Paul - the
Sweden
Lund
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I share your views here.

This game is fun but as CF says the CRT is a killer and totally negates long time planning. There are some optional rules now that somewhat mollifies this but it’s not enough imo. Some people seems the love the chaos others like me thinks it somewhat kills the game.

Another factor is that the different nations are so close to each other that everyone can attack everyone without that much trouble. So should someone get ahead he better be prepared to be hit a lot. :angry:

There are some good ideas in the game such as the Desperate Time cards that allows you to take turns outside your normal turns and such, but the game still lacks something to make it really great.

Btw, there is a 5-player expansion in the works where Carthage is introduced. Looks very interesting as it will hopefully keep the Greeks from hitting the Romans on turn 1 as they normally do in every single game.
9. Board Game: Pax Romana [Average Rating:7.53 Overall Rank:416]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Soon to be released from GMT is this 4 player game by Richard Berg. This one didn't stay on the P500 list very long.

Zippadeedoodah
Netherlands
Amsterdam
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Needless to say I was one of the first 500 to subscribe :p
David Seddon
United Kingdom
Loughborough
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I am under the impression that this IS being thoroughly play-tested and that as a result, there will be changes made to the rules beofre it is put out. Not only that, but the changes are likely to be ones to simplify not complicate. I have my sources! ;)
Richard H. Berg
United States

South Carolina
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Interesting . . . interesting . . .

Re: Playtesting. I don't do p[laytesting 9not after i gfinish the design.) That is done by thge Developer(s). (Game design is NOT a cottage industry with someone sitting in a room doing it all by himself). I'm never quite surewehat "enough playtesting" is . . .is there a manual that lists the number of times?

In any case, ALL of my games are now playtested publically - on Consimworld - and you can follow what is being done, how it is being done, what the problems are, what the results are, simpyl by reading the folder for that game on Consimworld.

As for the comment about people not liking me, have any of those peo;le ever actually met me? Probably, no . . .but this is not the forum for the psychology of Inferred Insult.

And my apologies for the whackpo typos and spellings . . .I get up very early and type too fast . . . And I don't playtest this stuff . . .

RHB
David Seddon
United Kingdom
Loughborough
Leicestershire
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I just saw this list come up again and decided to check out Twilight Struggle. Saw your coments, Richard and I must say that the nay sayers have not put me off of buying Pax.

I've heard enough to know that I will like it very much.
victor lozano
Spain
Mataro
Barcelona
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It is not a card driven wargame. :shake:
This game must be out of this list.
10. Board Game: Twilight Struggle [Average Rating:8.25 Overall Rank:4]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Ok, this one interests me greatly and on the surface it seems a subject tailor made for this sytem. The Cold War done as a card driven wargame. Can't wait to see how this one works out. Currently on the GMT P500 list.
Jason Henke
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
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cold war you say...hmm...very interested now. I had no idea about this one.

Thank you. :) ...must investigate...
Hannes Riener
Austria
Vienna
Austria
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Yes, this is from all the last card driven games the one I am interested in - and preordered it months ago ... rumor says it will be available around Dec 05.
Simon Appleyard
Scotland
South Queensferry
West Lothian
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I played this in a draft design at a GMT convention (probably more than 2 years ago now). If it remains fundamentally the same as it was then, then I think it will be an interesting addition to the canon. The game I played moved the CDG system in a different direction again in that it had no actual combat as I remember it. It was very much a political game directed at influencing and controlling countries in the cold war period. It played quite quickly ( about 90 mins max I think). I enjoyed it and look forward to seeing what the final version will be like.
Kai Jensen
United States
Santa Rosa
California
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I have played this one three times now (lost all three - even played both sides!) :blush: and love the game! Great system, good tension and some hard decisions to be made. This one will definitely see a LOT of repeat play at our house.
Vera Randino
Italy
Lincoln Park
New Jersey
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one of the best replayable 2 players game .... just wonderful!!!
11. Board Game: Unhappy King Charles! [Average Rating:7.79 Overall Rank:532]
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Brian Morris
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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Still another card driven game making it's way through the inner workings of GMT.
Ed Brickell
United States
Dallas
Texas
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I would think the highly chaotic nature of the English Civil War would make it terribly difficult to simulate effectively in a game ... but, here's hoping.
Charles Vasey
England
London
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Which bits are you looking for, Ed? I'll see if I've squeezed them in yet.
12. Board Game: Triumph of Chaos [Average Rating:7.67 Overall Rank:600]
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
Canada
Scarborough
Ontario
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About Russia civil war. A lot of political rules and exceptions so difficulty may be at par to EOTS. Definitely for more hardcore wargamers. Very high production value.
Nate Merchant
United States
New York
New York
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And expensive. Otherwise, complexity or no, I might have grabbed it by now. Reviews seem to be positive.
Nick Stellato
United States
Sheffield Village
Ohio
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I found this easier to jump into than EotS. The designer borrowed heavily from Racier (with his permission). It does feel alot like PoG. The political dimension is almost a game upon itself. The player aids that are posted on Consim really makes it easier to understand the ins and outs of the politcal phase. If you feel comfortable playing PoG, then you should have no problem playing this one. It's a very good game on an oft neglected historical subject.
Chris Farrell
United States
Cupertino
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I too found this much easier to get into than Empire of the Sun, perhaps because Triumph of Chaos had a rulebook that was comprehensible.

I think if you're moving here from Paths of Glory, ToC is managable, because a) it's so similar to PoG, and b) the rules for the factions ramp up. So Poland and the Ukraine have lots of special rules, but they don't enter the conflict for a while, so you can just deal with relatively "normal" factions until the CP withdrawl kicks in.

Still, all that said, it's not a simple game. Definitely start with Paths of Glory first.
Steve Hope

Emerald Hills
California
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This is my game of the moment. I'm loving it, though with a few small reservations.
13. Board Game: World War II: Barbarossa to Berlin [Average Rating:7.27 Overall Rank:338]
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Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
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This is another Ted Racier Design. It uses a deck for each player and a limited war and total war group of cards, simlar to Paths of Glory.
Bill Eldard
United States
Unspecified
Virginia
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I've read positive and negative things about this game, but have not played it myself. Do those who have played it generally feel that the subject is a good one for point-to-point movement and card-driven play?
Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
Canada
Scarborough
Ontario
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