Special thanks to TerrorBull Games and cvonh for bringing the War on Terror to Afghanistan! It showed up during mail call a few weeks back and has been a huge hit with the soldiers of Task Force MED.

So what does the sign on the tire say!


And, thank you for serving!

I suppose it is something along the lines of not approaching closer than 100 meters to the vehicle.

In Iraq, "keep your distance" takes on a whole new meaning :-/

/kgm

Except Pete is serving in Afghanistan.

Hey Pete.... good to see you are well, when can we expect your return to game night.

-M

DON'T SHOOT THAT GAME!

Nice photo.

Strong, the troll is.

Indeed good to see you well. I wouldn't walk around with the games balaclava.

Phil W.

The people in Iraq must have good eyes to read this sign from a distance above 100 Meters or maybe 100 feet.

Thank you for serving our country.

Frankly, I doubt the soldiers really care.

Thank you Tim! This sentiment sums up my feelings exactly.

Thank you, Pete, for your service to this county in the Uniform of the United States Army. You are a true hero!

You just must be jealous because you don't have a military to protect your ass.

Instead, you have secret banks in your country.

Is one any more "repulsive" than the other?

Nope, not jealous. Because we don't actually need an army to invade other countries and steal their oil. And I'm certainly no banker.

Perhaps I should try to explain (without much hope of being understood).

This specific image, and the ensuing comments, illustrate to me some points that I find hard to swallow:

- Guy believes it's funny to point a gun at a game-box, while wearing all his Rambo Outfit

- Audience replies: Well donne! Proud of you! USA USA USA!!

- you people routinely get your Iraq and Afghanistan mixed up pretty badly

To you, all this may bee entirely normal. For me, on the other hand this is just soooooo far out from my daily experiences.

I simply can't understand how you people can glorify what your government and your army are doing all over the world. Go read a book (still available in your country?) and try to figure out what's happening...

I am not going to get in to a political pissing match on a board game forum... wrong time and space for it.

What I will say is that Pete came regularly to our little gaming group for many a month. We referred to him as 'Army Pete.' Seems to be something about our group to have two of every name that shows up...

Anyhow, we were sorry to see him go. I know he signed up for his own reasons... I am not going to promote what has happened or denounce it at this time. What I am going to do is support the guy there. He is a great guy, and I know everyone in our little group really hopes he can come back safe and sound.

Decry all you want, it is free speech I suppose. (not so sure about forums on for board games...) But I will say it is a slightly funny photo from a guy I hope comes back in one piece. Mentally and physically.

I wrote a longer response to your arrogancy...then, I decided it just wasn't worth my time. You're response to the picture fits the country you're from. A country which, historically, has seen fit to sit back and watch tyrants wreak havoc on our world. You couldn't possibly understand what it means for one to take pride in one's country's military (notice I didn't say government). Generally speaking (yes, there have been some mistakes made), the men and women of the US military (and the other Coalition forces) have done a wonderful job with the short end of the stick which they were dealt. And if you think the only reason we went into Iraq is for oil...why are gasoline prices so high in the US? Don't you think that if the reason for going to war in Iraq was to "steal oil" that we would've seen gasoline prices fall? Regime change in Iraq has been a US policy for a LONG time. President Bush was simply the President to actually accomplish it. And don't even get me started about Afghanistan! The atrocities that were being committed against 10-, 11-, and 12-year old girls (not to mention the women) would've been reason enough to send in our troops. The fact that the country was harboring terrorists who were attacking the US (the main reason) was a bonus reason. It sounds like you're the one that needs to "read a book and try to figure out what's going on" rather than simply listening to the biased rhetoric spin being regurgitated again and again by the world's news agencies. I know you live in a peaceful little bubble...but why don't you take a look outside your window every once in a while?

Whatever, man...move along...nothing to see here.

I think it speaks volumes about a guy who can make light of an otherwise serious job and especially enjoy a game that pokes fun of the "war on terror" (if I understand the game correctly).

Well done, sir!

Douche..

Wrong time and space indeed. As a matter of fact, that's exactly why I'm opposed to having images of guns on this site. I just didn't find the image funny at all.



Point taken. I wish him much the same. I do however, also hope that he doesn't inflict to much pain with that "funny" gun of his.

I realize that I'm not getting the full picture of how you Americans experience the situation/war/shit you are in. For one, the only people I know that actually fought in a war are WW2 veterans or refugees from Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan. And also, I don't really follow the US media closely (except for the unavoidable CNN). So, obviously my perspective is different. Add to this my being completely unacquainted with your "gun-loving"-culture, and you will perhaps begin to understand how I could come to the point of finding this image distasteful to the point of repulsion.

Of course you're not getting the full picture. CNN is the Grand Pooba of biased rhethoric spin regurgitation. I don't think anyone is necessarily speaking against your repulsion of the image. That's a personal response...no problem. My problem came when you decided to make out "Army Pete" and the rest of our military as being villains (my perception...but "repulsive", "stealing oil", etc. fits here, too), for answering the call for duty. You could've left well-enough alone (still being repulsed), and clicked away. But you instead chose one of the strongest words possible to convey a misinformed belief, and posted it without any explanation whatsoever.

I don't expect you to understand how we in the US think, but it would be nice of you to give people the benefit of the doubt from time to time. I live in South Korea, and I routinely have to give Koreans the benefit of the doubt because I don't fully understand their culture (and that's after living here for 6.5 years). I had to do the same thing when I lived in Germany for 4 years while my Dad was stationed at Bitburg Air Force Base.

Don't be so quick to think the worst of people, and you'll often (though not always) be surprised.

I sure am grateful for that..


Actually, I'm Scottish (One might argue that Scotland is still being ruled by the same tyrants from which the US freed themselves ~200 years ago). Regarding Switzerland: The US might do well in respecting/emulating some of the more thoughtful Swiss policy (not to say that everything Swiss is great, especially not the banks), then perhaps you could also live in a peaceful little bubble.


No, I really couldn't.


Recommended Reading:

- Google (for information on international gasoline and crude oil prices)
- "Travels in American Iraq" by John Martinkus
- http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/04usempire
- "Ein vermessenes Imperium" ( http://www.monde-diplomatique.de/pm/.edition/edition). This is unfortunately only available in German.

Great picture!! The only thing that would make it better would be a Colt .45 as opposed to the 9 mm but I suppose thats all a matter of personal taste (I prefer the holes the .45 ACP makes as oppose to the 9mm parabellum). Also Currahee 101st Airborne!!

I also wish people wouldnt feed the troll . Why bother to even respond to him? Its obvious he was watching this topic from him jumping on the replies. Just ignore him and he'll go away!

That certainly is good advice. You're right in recommending that I should simply have looked at the image, taken a deep breath of fresh air, and then forgotten about it. I did however feel compelled to express my feeling about the image (NOT "Army Pete" as a person!)

You must however also understand, that this is exactly the kind of picture that makes it very hard for Europeans (or at least for myself) to not think the worst of Americans. Guns are fortunately not a commodity around here. That's probably why I overreacted. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Now lets go and play a game of Imperial.


edited to add the game

Thank you for your service sir!

Thank you for your service Pete. Keep up the good work. We will still be clinging to our guns and religion here in the midwest when you come home.

From a fellow BGG here at barksdale air force base thanks for serving and keep up the good work!

Sorry for assuming you were Swiss...I went by the flag in your profile info...my bad.

The US taking a neutral stand would have had drastic repurcussions for a lot of nations, not the least of which is that very probable situation that all of Europe would currently be under Nazi control (including Switzerland and Scotland). Not a real peaceful bubble, I would think.

For what it's worth, I don't think you meant to be a troll in this thread...it just turned out that way. Learning experience, I guess.

An example to show that it's not trivial to assume what would have happened historically, should hypothetical alternate decisions have been made somewhere in our past: If Lenin would have stayed in Switzerland, there would now be such a thing as the "Swiss Sowjet Republic", having colonized half of Africa and still being tied up in a never ending war with the Nazis.
At least this was the premise of a book I recently read ("Ich werde hier sein im Sonnenschein und im Schatten" by Christian Kracht). Some other interesting reads on the topic of alternate history would be "Fatherland" by Robert Harris or "The man in the high castle" by Philip K. Dick),

I wouldn't, however, want to question the necessity of an allied (incl. US, of course) intervention in WW2.

My suggestion regarding "more thoughtful policy" wasn't intended to advocate neutrality. I was more thinking along the lines of "Keep calm and carry on", as opposed to the fear-mongering of the current US-government and mainstream media.


Advice I should have considered myself, before posting my original comment! I just ordered a replica of this poster, and will have a good look at it before posting anything political in the future. That much for the learning experience...

Technically I think the whole of Europe would be under Stalins control , they did a pretty good job on the east front especially in 1944-1945

I love to play war games, but I really hate war for bloody oil!

I second that.

Long live:
* Army Pete
* The american people
* The people of the middle east
* Rock n Roll

No more:
* war
* politically controversial pictures on BGG

And, yes! Let's go play some Imperial or Diplomacy!

Who is to decide what is controversial? What is wrong with debate? I do not mind hearing views different from my own. Volunteering to fight overseas is a brave thing to do. I think that history will show that the Iraq invasion did not achieve very much sadly, although I fully supported the invasion of Afghanistan where regime change was totally justified.

Classy arguments from both sides I see as per usual.

Soldiers do their duty, whatever side they're on, and do as they're ordered. They don't make the big political decisions and have to see all kinds of horrible things and experience some terrible stuff.


Whatever peoples' views on wars and politics, we should always pray (or hope for depending on how religious you are) for quick resolutions and the safety of all men concerned.

Couldn't let it die huh? The previous pissing session had come to a reasonable close. You have to try to fire it up again. Nice. Strange that Americans get the bad wrap for unnecessary aggression. Ignorance and arrogance is a terrible combination.

Actually the Soviets did a horrible job on the Eastern Front. They won a war of attrition at a catastrophic cost. They won not because they had better strategy or tactics but because they had home territory, massive manpower resource, and really cold winters. The history spinners that like to say that the Soviets won the war and that the west just tagged along are misinformed. Yes the Soviets managed to make it to Berlin and they fought a significantly larger percentage of the Germans, but they botched it at nearly every turn and were sustained by Western supplies throughout. No disrespect intended to the noble Russian people, but it is irritating when the Soviet military is given far more credit than they deserve.

In the struggle of “Impact vs. Intent” intent just doesn’t stand a chance with SOME people, does it? To those people I say: take your pot shot at me and my country, promote your agendas, reveal your prejudices, or just flat out declare that everyone who doesn’t think like you is stupid.

For me, boardgaming is a fun way to escape from the stresses in life. That is especially true now given my current address. My intent with this picture was strictly to have fun with this game in much the same fashion that the game itself takes - a satirical approach to an albeit serious issue. I think most people are fans of this web site for the fun factor, so I don’t think I owe any apologies for the picture. Besides, the box lid of this very fun game is covered with images that are far more violent, “repulsive”, satirical, whatever . . .

It is true, however, that all U.S. soldiers are bloodthirsty Rambo clones. It is most unfortunate for me that I work in Information Systems and pretty much sit at a desk all day. However, I am circling my desk now and firing my weapon in the air screaming USA! USA! at the top of my lungs – I hope all you Yanks are applauding this act. Yes, I am a Chairborne Ranger, but I am damn proud to wear this uniform. I am sure the Poles, Aussies, Kiwis, Brits, Czechs, Egyptians, Fins, and others that I see here almost every day are just as proud to be wearing theirs. We're all proud of what the coalition is doing here in Afghanistan. I have seen first hand the gratitude of the people here even though each mission hasn't always gone perfectly.

If you live in a country where you think your society works so much better then Americas it is probably because your country does not have to spend money on a defense budget. You can thank the American tax-payer, American soldier, and all of the nations mentioned above for that. We’ll do the heavy lifting, sit back in your easy chair and decry those doing all the work around the world.

To all my buddies back in the Mecca of boardgaming (Essen has nothing on Baltimore), who is driving the Caboose in my absence? Raise a Natty Boh for me and I will see you when I get back.

Warm regards,
BadLT

I really don't think anyone WON in a war that cost nearly 75,000,000 lives, No matter your thoughts on the Russian army or tactics, it would not have been NEARLY as possible for ANYONE to win without Russia and it's "human wall" tying up the German's Eastern resources.

(Keep in mind, I'm no military theorist or anything, I just like looking at charts.)

No question about the value of the human wall. If you choose to say survived instead of won, that is fine. But the Soviets were in no place to take all of Europe, nor would they have taken half of it without western support. Sadly with any military savvy, their casualty count could have been significantly lower.

Is the joke in this that the guy has a box of terror and it's not a 100m back? I don't know, neat picture but if that was an Afghani he'd probably not be alive right now. That's not so funny.

Not a bad taste picture but is what it is.

That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Any serious WW2 historian will vouch for that.

Well I reckon a lot of Iraqi or Afghan boardgamers, who consider themselves occupied, might be offended by it. I'm not saying that they are occupied or that the USA are doing anything wrong. It's a question of respect for other people.

Pictures of swastikas might not be controversial to some, to others they are the epiphamy of evil. Why not a picture of someone playing a game called "Death to America, they deserve it" while burning the American flag at ground zero on 9/11 next year? Some people might find that offensive.

Thus it would be better to keep BGG a non-political site where we focus on games.

You are underinformed.

This correlation escapes me. How do you possibly equate this photograph with what you describe. Neither the image or the game is glorifying Death to a country or catastrophic terror.



The picture is non political. It is a picture of a guy on deployment holding a game about fighting terrorism. These reduculous statements are what are making things political.

Brilliant summation.

I wasn't familiar with the concept of "Impact vs. Intent" before your brought it up. After googling it, I understand it as follows: Impact is what really matters as it's objectively measurable, intent is highly subjective and a personal matter, therefore all actions should be judged by their impact. I presume this would apply to your stupid image and to my stupid initial comment. Fact (Impact) is: we both upset some people, intentional or not. Please correct me if I completely misunderstood you. Pointing out the impact your image had on me isn't, at least in my book, the same as saying "everyone who doesn’t think like me is stupid".

I also think that most people are attracted to the geek for its fun factor, I myself certainly am. The issue we are having here is exactly about this: not all people consider the same things funny. Some people might even find your idea of fun rather offensive. Other people will find the (perhaps unlucky) wording of my comment offensive.


You just might want to ask yourself WHY the US HAVE to spend so much of their budget on defense/security/war?

I must admit that I'm surprised you joined this "discussion". Thanks for your reaction. Even though we probably disagree on many things, I believe it's always valuable for people to be in dialogue with each other.

Glad to hear that you're getting some positive feedback from the people in Afghanistan. I wish you good luck for all the things you do that might warrant such feedback, and honestly hope you will safely return to your gaming buddies back home.

I - as in ME personally - do not equate the photograph with anything. I have no problem with the USA, well not more than most other countries anyway.

The problem is that to SOME people it does equate that. They see themselves as occupied, they see the US Army as something opressive and the cause of all their problems. To them US foreign politics is catastrophic terror. They do not even have to be middle eastern. A LOT of people in Europe would find that picture offensive.

To not be able to relate to that shows a severe lack of empathy.



Well a nazi soldier standing in front of Treblinka holding a game called Cleansing the World would also be just "a guy on deployment".

You sir - with all due respect - need to think outside the box for a while and try to understand how other people VIEW the US Army on deployment and how they VIEW the war on terror. The world isn't just black and white or good vs evil.

As far as the whole "The Soviets wouldn't have made it without the allies" issue we'll just have to disagree - completely.
You're a history teacher, I have a university degree in history. I assume that we both have read a lot of books on the subject and that it would be very nice to sit down and discuss it, to compare diferrent scholars' take on it, but this forum thread is not the right place.

Guy on deployment, proudly displaying his gun, fighting terrorism = NOT political?

I'm sure as hell glad you never were my history teacher...

While I am certain that I would not be qualified to teach Swiss history and its global impact, (does that extend beyond the SWISS ARMY KNIFE?) I am equally certain that you would benefit from an education.

Take care LT.
I am praying for all of you guys over there. Stay safe.

CH (CPT) Michael Stephan
US ARMY Chaplain

"I will be strong and courageous. I will not be terrified or discouraged; for the Lord my God is with me wherever I go." Joshua 1:9

Dave, I would agree with you to a point, but would also disagree.

The Soviet Union was an excellent war machine once the war turned in their favor. It did not bumble to victory. Further, it was Hitler's megalomania that lead to the destruction of the 6th Army at Stalingard AND the brilliant defense by Chuikov and counter offensive by Marshal Zhukov that lead to the turning point in the war on the East Front. As the war swung in the Soviet's favor many German Marshals recognized the fact this was not the same army they faced in 1941. "They(the Soviets) learned to fight from us, as many of the German generals would say."

I defiantly do not believe the west "just tagged along" it was a combination of the two forces that crushed the German war machine. Granted their tactics seemed a bit barbaric (human wave attack etc.) to a Westerner's point of view but the Eastern Front was a brutal war fueled by an intense hatred I believe only matched by the United States and Japan in the Pacific campaign. But the Soviets DO deserve A LOT of credit for the victory in Europe.

Once last thing.
I'm proud to be an American!
I'm proud I can own a GUN!
I'm proud I can say what I want in this country!
I'm proud of our fighting men!
I love healthy discussions on politically charged topics!

also... this is a picture that was just meant to be FUN! I think it is brilliant!

Stars and Stripes forever,

Randall

You might be quite surprised to learn that there are some countries and organizations out there that have made a global impact, without being actively involved in killing millions of people.

What's this "education" thing you're talking about? Sounds interesting... I guess it must be some local brand of alcoholic beverage? Beer perhaps? Please enlighten me.

Believe me, Swiss global impact extends beyond the Swiss Army Knife.
Also believe it or not, size of global impact does not directly equate to how great a country is, and that's coming from a Brit whose country has had the biggest global empire in history.

I'm proud to be British!
I'm proud I can say what I want about my country!
I'm proud of our fighting men!
I love healthy discussions on politically charged topics!
I'm proud that our government outright banned handguns the second that the first little kids were killed in our first ever school shooting!



We're all wrong anyway. It's well known that Sweden is the best, happiest and most wonderful country in the world.....And they have amazing looking women.

That is awful and tragic... But Luke I would be against banning those guns because we may have to beat you Redcoats again... Just kidding.... kinda

By the way your right about Sweden, except I couldn't stand all the taxes... So I'll keep my guns...

The British Empire was the most spread out empire, but the Mongolian Empire was the largest by landmass.

Ok, guys from the rest of the world.
Here, in the U.S., we have a pretty bad education system, that keeps a lot of people vulnerable to the fear spread by our government. These are these people that admire the mercenaries we sent to the terrorist evil mid-eastern countries. Please, don't be tough with them, it's not their fault.

This picture is nearly as funny as the pictures from Abu Ghraib prison, they are brilliant, too!

It´s not possible to be proud just for living in a country, maybe you can be lucky to live there, but not more!

You have to do something to be proud.

Perhaps, build a beautiful table, repair a broken engine or teach children to use their own brain.

From a country that has rockets and bombs in its national anthem...

I'm glad that Afghanistan has all that extra oil for us to loot, otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford driving the gas guzzling canyonero to work 100 miles both ways every day. (I couldn't afford an actual canyonero, so I bought the honda civic knockoff).

Thank you very much for risking your life to keep our shores free from those that want to take our liberty from us.

It is easy to hate the “ugly American” but remember this:

Most other countries people LIVE in a homogenous society; American is not, so we are far more diversified by nature and have a broader perspective (I presume your views and opinions of America were shaped by Hollywood and media (which is a business and in a strange way an extension of the Hollywood)…We handle and tolerate diversity all the time—not just when the going is good. Its easy to caste stones when you do nothing about world problems.

The threat of terrorism is real and international. It has no borders. It has no scruples, and its perpetrators do not a similar morale code that we understand. It is just a matter of time. We (you) can pay now or pay later!

Do you know what a CALIPHATE is?

Who do you think kept the Soviet bear at bay after World War II? The Europeans?

Who rebuilt war torn Europe? Ever hear of the Marshal Plan?

Ever hear of Globalization? International Markets? cheap energy = economic growth = help for developing countries = world economic growth, etc….

The US does not need Middle Eastern Oil, but WORLD does!!! (See above)

Ever read Machiavelli?

Ever hear of Realpolitik?

I neither advocate nor disapprove the currently conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. I just have 2 comments about those: 1) Something had to be done—doing nothing was not an option and the UN is ineffective and 2) When is the rest of the world going to start pulling their weight?

As far as “gun loving” I am not sure that is an accurate portrayal of Americans. Americans love individualism and right to own a gun is universal and protected under the Constitution. However the choice is an “individual” one. I don’t have one and most of my friends do not either.

Lastly, don’t forget America is less than 250 years old, while the European Powers have a history of imperialism and exploitation the spans at least 3 centuries.

Finally, how about just saying thanks and asking what can I do to make the world a better place?

BTW, I lived in Europe; been to Balkans to witness how well homogenous societies interact with other; Been to the Mid-East; Been to the Afghanistan; and love learning about other cultures.

Cheers,

S.

This has got to be the most comments for a single picture!

And that is where you and I will agree to disagree....

and by the way I am a proud teacher as well...

Well said.

The number of people in the world that live in peace at the United States expense and then criticize the very guns that maintain that peace is both amazing and disappointing. Any who would say that they don't need that protection should talk to Poland, Ukraine, or Georgia and ask them about American military and appreciation. You don't have to thank us. You don't have to send us a check. But you should.

OMG!!!! Those people that found the picture offensive had no clue as to how much our soldiers and their families have to endure in order to keep us safe at home and to help YOU (those narrow minded people) to sit home and read your novels and science fictions while watching them fight for world peace. Pull your head out and see what's really involved!!! Then you may have to right to comment!! SHAME!!!!

Keep up with the good work!! Can't wait to see you home!!

Fine, then you are able to teach them to use their own brain and not only to believe in government-TV (CNN).

Sorry, but this sentence: "And that is where you and I will agree to disagree...." is to hard to understand with my poor English.

I think you will able to to form another which is easier to catch for me.

That must be the most arrogant statement in this thread so far (except for some trolling w