The Dice Tower | BoardGameGeek

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: 2009: Tom and Melody Vasel's Top 100 Games - # 1 - 2

unfathomable — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:52:20 +0000

ProfessorE wrote:
bwingrave wrote:
Tom,

I'm curious: Were there any games that were in both your top 100 and your daughter's?

b

I may not be Tom, but I know the answer. Number 75 is a tie. They both picked Manhattan for that one. I'm pretty sure that there are more, but that's all I can remember.

[thing=199][/thing]:#75 for both
[thing=6249][/thing]: #19 for Melody, #97 for Tom
[thing=150][/thing]: #76 for Melody, #36 for Tom
[thing=37759][/thing]: #70 for Melody, #41 for Tom
[thing=9209][/thing] Series: #90 for Melody, #5 for Tom
[thing=74][/thing]: #56 for Melody, #28 for Tom
[thing=17705][/thing]: #61 for Melody, #13 for Tom
[thing=34119][/thing]: #2 for Melody, #42 for Tom
[thing=19237][/thing]: #12 for Melody, #18 for Tom
[thing=36218][/thing]: #11 for Melody, #7 for Tom

Did I miss anything?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: 2009: Tom and Melody Vasel's Top 100 Games - # 1 - 2

ProfessorE — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:36:06 +0000

by ProfessorE

bwingrave wrote:
Tom,

I'm curious: Were there any games that were in both your top 100 and your daughter's?

b

I may not be Tom, but I know the answer. Number 75 is a tie. They both picked Manhattan for that one. I'm pretty sure that there are more, but that's all I can remember.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

ProfessorE — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:12:51 +0000

by ProfessorE

Great episode, The Doom Vs. Descent is really interesting. I haven't played ether, but I think I prefer the fantasy theme. Anyway, I subscribe to the enhanced podcast on Itunes, and when you didn't make an enhanced version, I had to subscribe to the normal podcast, sync it from there, then cancel my subscription, just to hear one episode. So could you guys put the episode in the enhanced feed, regardless of if it's enhanced or not? It would be really helpful if you did.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

casezz — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:19:51 +0000

by casezz

i find a fair number of people who put up walls. there's one guy in a group in a town nearby who doesn't even like other people playing games of a style he doesn't like at functions he hosts (specifially co-op games). the bgg crowd is dismissive of ccg's i find, which is quite consistent with many of the people who play board games in the groups i play in. while at the same time these same people play dominion and a slew of card based board games. i am a particularly eclectic person so i perhaps have a higher likelihood of meeting people who are vocally uninterested in whatever it is i'm playing at that time. sometimes i find they defend their choices (because they're giving me grief about playing a game they don't like, not because i'm soliciting this sort of interaction) and other times it's not a particularly well defended position, or in my parlance a wall.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

bippi — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:32:37 +0000

by bippi

charlescab wrote:
Usually the people who have the hardest time playing the games are the hardcore strategists. Most everyone I have got to the table enjoyed the game.
Best way to get them to the table? Free beer and chips! Beer even makes fantasy games fun :)

Beer is the only way to play Quelf, Triviathon, and enjoy Monopoly... for me. ;)

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to advertise and set a game night up for myself and advertise in the local craigslist or games group, or break down and take my not-purchased-at-the-flgs copy to the flgs' game night after a couple weeks of gettin' friendly with the owner.

:D

It's just that I have EXACTLY the problems described... I'm either in a euro situation, where it's always (to a point), "the more the merrier".. or at home with the wife who isn't big into this sort of game... or... that's really it.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

charlescab — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:27:12 +0000

by charlescab

Usually the people who have the hardest time playing the games are the hardcore strategists. Most everyone I have got to the table enjoyed the game.
Best way to get them to the table? Free beer and chips! Beer even makes fantasy games fun :)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

bwingrave — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:09:23 +0000

by bwingrave

Most of the people I game with are more interested in playing games in groups (not just 2p), which rules out a lot of RB stuff. Many aren't interested in wargames at all (no matter how light), so that rules out even more.

Memoir '44 and Battle Cry both caught the interest of my step-son (who was around 9 years old) because of their components. But the little guy wasn't interested in playing the games at all.

Of all the people I play games with, only one has requested an RB game with me: One of my cousins enjoyed Battle Cry quite a bit and asked to play it again. Of course, he lives a few states away, so we don't see each other very often.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

ALGO — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:38:49 +0000

by ALGO

Again, Bippi, I think what Tom's saying is that it is only the extremes of both camps who won't play it.

Personally I think there's far too much dogmatic adherance to principles in both camps.

As it is with music, so it is with games:

"There's only two kinds... good and bad"

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

bippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:35:32 +0000

by bippi

TomVasel wrote:
I find that the people who like Borg games are a pretty large group.

You have
Die hard Eurogamers
Die hard war game simulationists
and
People who hate games.

Everyone else loves the Borg games. It's easy!

Ok, so I just have to find the people who play games, but don't care what they play...

problem: solved. :D

I'll have you know, setting-up shop in a coffee place and asking people "if they'd like to play a game"... doesn't work too terribly awesome. Starbucks does give a free coffee to you on your way out, or as they say, "if you'll just leave".

----------------------------------------------

The thing about the die-hard eurogamers, is that they don't like the straightforwardness of wargames. There's one way to win: kill the other guy. Sure, you can get creative with it, but the end is the same. You'll never get the joy of no one noticing you making a complete set of civ cards in Stone Age and completely stomping the pee out of them in final scoring, in a wargame.

Die hard war game simulationists... seem to fall into one of two categories:
a) Can't be seen playing a game with dwarves and magic. I suppose when you're 45 "I cast magic missile" should have lost the allure. Especially when you have kids you have to convince into taking you seriously about other more important matters.

The level of how far this seriousness goes, can be pretty far, though. "Wait, you're playing a Civil war game without proper knowledge of how muskets really worked?! Let me explain...." ...an hour later you get back to the game. Which is also something you can't and shouldn't do with dwarves, elves, and magic... as there's no real accepted convention and fact-checking with things that aren't real (and I don't care what anyone says....).

b) Most of your designer eurogames have a 'trick', and heavy doses of luck. Most wargames, the whole point of the game is killing any semblance of relying on good fortune (much like war). Which is probably the main crux of why Borg doesn't get played by the die-hards of either crowd. Too straightforward for the euro crowd ("Gee, 5 longswords against my one set of archers... I wonder who is gonna win?"), and too luck driven for the wargame set ("Wait, I can't issue orders because I drew poorly? ...and why does a green set have the same 1 in 6 chance of killing a set of red as red does of killing green?").

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

ALGO — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:50:05 +0000

by ALGO

JoeSteadman wrote:
Borg games are for the most part to easy (M44) or have too silly of a theme (BattleLore). CC:A is the only game any respectable wargamer will play.

Normally I'm a "live and let live" sort of guy but I can't agree with this statement of yours:

Easy = Not Worth Playing

============

Also, you seem to be saying that people who hate games like Richard Borg's game. Why is Tom only right about the first two?

He's not saying if you don't like Borg you hate games; only that people who hate all games will obviously not like them.

Did you misread it?

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

JoeSteadman — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:01:38 +0000

by JoeSteadman

Uh.... you are right about the first two...

"Die hard Eurogamers"..., they won't play a "warish" game or one that has player elimination.

"Die hard war game simulationists:"... .... Borg games are for the most part to easy (M44) or have too silly of a theme (BattleLore). CC:A is the only game any respectable wargamer will play.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

caradoc — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:32:52 +0000

by caradoc

You forgot the 'people who are too busy talking to themselves in rushed mumbles about being watched by a coven of Wizards to listen to the rules' group, but otherwise I think you nailed it Tom.

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

TomVasel — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:51:44 +0000

by TomVasel

I find that the people who like Borg games are a pretty large group.

You have
Die hard Eurogamers
Die hard war game simulationists
and
People who hate games.

Everyone else loves the Borg games. It's easy!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

bippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:04:58 +0000

by bippi

casezz wrote:
i play them with friends who play euros with me. i also play them with a friend who plays mostly magic the gathering with me. did this just today. i'm mystified by all the walls people put around themselves proclaiming so proudly what they will and won't play. silly. games are fun, man, just roll the dice and see what happens.

I don't think anyone puts up any walls on what they will or won't play... it's just that everyone has games they'll play, and games they LIKE to play.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

casezz — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:50:25 +0000

by casezz

i play them with friends who play euros with me. i also play them with a friend who plays mostly magic the gathering with me. did this just today. i'm mystified by all the walls people put around themselves proclaiming so proudly what they will and won't play. silly. games are fun, man, just roll the dice and see what happens. i don't really have gaming friends who refuse to play things. we're all old married busy guys who are just happy to playing over a few beers with friends. i can't get my wife to play most euros, too fiddly, but anyone who likes some strategy i think would like the borg titles. i have both battlelore and memoir '44 and play whichever theme strikes the guest as more fun.

best, c

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Looking for a particular game -- Dust with special powers

Eirikr — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:32:41 +0000

by Eirikr

I'd like to second heroScape. I would strongly suggest buying the Rise of The Valkyrie master set and try it out. Don't bother with the basic rules. It's my opinion that you can't lose with this. I suspect you will both love it but even if you don't he's 8, he'll find a use for painted plastic dragons, dinosaurs, robots, samurai, soldiers, aliens, agents, did I miss any. Plus the modular terrain will be loads of fun for him too.
Definately look at some online stores and find the origional RotV master set though. The newer Swarm of the Marro master set is a great next expansion but doesn't give you the real flavour and the sense of the near limitless potential of the game on its own like the RotV set does.
Good luck and have fun!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Looking for a particular game -- Dust with special powers

logalog — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:30:21 +0000

by logalog

Twilight imperium is also quite a "fully developed game". Mind you it's main point isn't battle although you can do that no problem. Once you get into it the rules are pretty simple to. Mind you its a BIG game so don't let the size scare you. then again it takes a min. of 3 players to play. Starcraft is an excellent game one of my favorites plus it already has an expansion. Small world is good to although there isn't the feel of direct combat that you get with starcraft. Just depends if he likes more combat orient or just wants to be confrontational and take things over. Heroscape is a great one of the other side of the scale where it's all about combat and moving troops. Plus it's upgradeable with different sets and there is even a simple version that I easily played with a 7 year old, non gamer, and with the special rules there is a lot of variation of what you want to do with your army so you can make it different each time. Plus 3d customizable land tile don't hurt either. I'll think on it some more and see what I can come up with.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

bippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:29:30 +0000

by bippi

bippi wrote:
Curiousity, because they don't really fit-in with the historically accurate wargame crowd... they definitely aren't euros... it's like a boardgame without a country. Although it is highly appreciated and respected by quite a few folks.

JoeSteadman wrote:
I just don't play them.... :D

I rest my case.

For this particular endeavor, I'd like to get my battlelore on. So I could even make the case for getting a friendly Memoir '44 game going with the local wargame council (if we had one), most likely... but... I'm thinking dwarves, heroes, and magic.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

JoeSteadman — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:34:17 +0000

by JoeSteadman

I just don't play them.... :D

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: Who do you find to play Richard Borg games with?

bippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:00:22 +0000

by bippi

Curiousity, because they don't really fit-in with the historically accurate wargame crowd... they definitely aren't euros... it's like a boardgame without a country. Although it is highly appreciated and respected by quite a few folks.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Looking for a particular game -- Dust with special powers

trailofdead — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:25:17 +0000

by trailofdead

I'd recommend [thing=22827]Starcraft[/thing].Different races have different tech trees. Fun game.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

Oldman20 — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:56:26 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

Jedimusic, I did check out that thread. You are correct that a player can put a gem back in its own color bed, but the rules that come in the box clearly say what I wrote, but apparently there was a translation error. My other two examples are correct, and are supported by the revised rules.

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

amosmj — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:36:45 +0000

by amosmj

ah, this brings back memories of checkers at grandma's with my dad.....:D:D

Every time we went to visit my grandma (about weekly) one thing we had to do before I left was play checkers (why we just didn't get a board for home, I'll never know). My dad would drag out the board and the war would begin. For years he beat me game after game. I'd get the occasional lucky shot or get closer but he'd beat me. I don't recall it specifically but I'm guessing I cried at times, I was a bit of a cry baby. I do specifically recall him explaining time after time that he could throw the game but that wouldn't be any fun for either of us. That I was getting better each time and that when I did beat him I could know without a doubt that it was fair and square.

I did eventually beat him. I recall there being a couple years where each game could go to either of us, although I think the majority fell to him.

Oddly, once I got good enough to beat him, we both lost interest.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

amosmj — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:28:18 +0000

by amosmj

This is a pretty cool thread, thanks for sharing Mike.

I think it's somewhat natural for boys to have this behavior.My brother-in-law is known within the family for exactly this. I've only know him since he became an adult and I've never seen the behavior but his entire family still plays as if he was playing The Joker. Just the perception of a Joker at the table has an interesting impact on gameplay.

It seems you don't mind him playing with this hyper aggressive style but it sounds like he needs to learn some restrain.I don't have any experience with the traitor games that seem so popular now (battestar, shadows over camelot) but they may be the perfect place to teach him some discretion. My understanding is that that kind of bold faced aggression will get a person trounced in those games.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Looking for a particular game -- Dust with special powers

amosmj — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:15:26 +0000

by amosmj

would he have any interest in the soup du jour - Small World?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

DOAisBetter — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:53:21 +0000

by DOAisBetter

I don't have much to add but this reminds me of playing fighting games with my ex's niece. I wasn't trying to terribly hard since I knew I was at the advantage and I wanted her to have some fun. Well I won the first round and there was alot of "oh your beating up on a little girl" coming from her. So next round I went alot easier and lost. I thought it was funny because she changed her tune right away to trash talk. Nothing really bad but the opposite of the above example. So for the final round I went no mercy. She went back to saying was beating up on a little girl, but just told her if your going to trash talk be prepared for me to bring my best.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

jedimusic — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:47:25 +0000

by jedimusic

like that you are allowed to unload, move and then load, but not load, move and unload; or you can't unload a gem on a spot the same color as the gem; or you can unload, move and steal, but you can't move, unload, steal.

I'm pretty sure a good bit of this is incorrect - probably due to the not-the-best rules manual which has caused some confusion (translation, etc.) Here's one of the Niagara threads discussing it - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/108657.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

ALGO — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:53:54 +0000

by ALGO

Oldman20 wrote:
I just need to him to read the Lord of the Rings books, so we can play War of the Ring. He says he is just planning on watching the movies.

It's his loss.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Looking for a particular game -- Dust with special powers

caradoc — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:20:23 +0000

by caradoc

Neuroshima Hex... oh... wait... well...

Also I might recommend:

[thing=15363][/thing]... others could be [thing=9203][/thing] (although this doesn't have a tech tree)... hmm tough genre to fill!

I could also suggest [thing=25417][/thing] with the [thing=45543][/thing]... That has a kind of tech tree...

[thing=59294][/thing] might also fit the bill well once it is released!

Just a couple of ideas - probably not very helpful sorry!

Cheers,

Giles.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: Looking for a particular game -- Dust with special powers

Oldman20 — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:10:28 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

I have been looking around for a game for my eight year old son. He is a pretty good gamer and really likes direct conflict games, with a fighting theme and cool components. I was all ready to go with Dust and then I realized that he likes with asymmetrical sides -- like Neuroshima Hex (yes, Giles, I saw the expansion, it is on my list) or Warcraft the Board Game where the sides develop different tech trees. Ideally it would be good with two, but allow for multi-player. Any suggestions?

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

Oldman20 — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:54:26 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

Jedimusic, we did indeed play the upstream movement rule correctly. And while it is not as crazy as the endgame in Drakon, where everyone can just work together to keep someone from grabbing their last gold, it is definitely not too difficult for one person to steal. They only have to have a canoe downstream from a player after they grab the winning gem. Every player but one gets a move before that player gets to play again, and if the person taking the gem is the start player for that round, everyone will get two moves before he goes again. There will also be a river slide after they grab the gem, so I don't think it is really too hard for someone to be able to make a play to grab the first winning gem that someone picks up.

Now to take a real tangent into Niagara minutia, that game has too many small little fiddly rules, like that you are allowed to unload, move and then load, but not load, move and unload; or you can't unload a gem on a spot the same color as the gem; or you can unload, move and steal, but you can't move, unload, steal. There are just too many little exceptions and special cases that you have to remember. And when I tell my kids that they can't do something, they always ask me "Why not?" and I really can't give a better answer than "Them's the rules." It isn't like Battlelore where you can explain why the heavy soldiers move less but fight with more dice. Of course, I can't even understand the trampling rules in Battlelore, so I guess every game has its problems.

Logan, good point about Joker play being just stressing the game to see what happens to find alternate strategies. And have no fear, I am not worried about my son's joker play. I just need to him to read the Lord of the Rings books, so we can play War of the Ring. He says he is just planning on watching the movies.

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Episode 159 Delay

ProfessorE — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:05:58 +0000

by ProfessorE

I couldn't agree more that the wait will be worth it. Although it dose annoy me a bit that the show will be late, finally Tom will be able to compare something to Origins. Personally, I think Tom will prefer Origins, simply it's a lot more about open gaming than Essen.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

jedimusic — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:31:21 +0000

by jedimusic

Not to get on too much of a tangent specifically on Niagara, but are you playing with the rule about stealing only if you are going upstream? The only reason I ask is because when you said

There is sort of a bash the leader endgame where someone has the gem that they need, so everyone steals from them.

Most of the time stealing gems in Niagara can take some tricky maneuvering - you have to have an empty canoe downstream from the "victim" and be moving first on the round you do it, and land on them by exact count. Perhaps you are, but just wanted to check, because if you could just, say, jump off the beach and land on someone's space and steal their gem willy-nilly - there would be much more chaos in the game. The upstream thing is something I have to really emphasize with new players, or players who haven't played the game in a while.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

logalog — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:10:39 +0000

by logalog

I will agree with you all that there is a difference between the joker and the random player. One has a goal of simply being mean to a player while the other is just simply board. It sounds like your son is trying out different strategies to me. I have a friend that is what I like to call a mega end gamer. One that simply wants to get to the biggest guns that he can build a ton of them and then rain death upon his opponent, then there is the focusing on a single player which sounds a lot like a joker. I personally think that its awesome that he is trying different strategies and trying to figure out how to think and what to do. I There are some permanent joker players but I have yet to run into many of them I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: question for geoff and a sad tale

feldmafx — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:07:23 +0000

by feldmafx

I have the [thing=7104][/thing] books, and played it against the [thing=798][/thing] series quite a bit in high school. It always felt like a hex based game, visualized in the first person, out to three or four hexes. Movements (slow, medium, fast) were related to hexes also (1, 2, or 3 respectively for PH, and 0, 1 or 2 for HR).

But then again, I may be wrong...

It would be neat to see a full color, computer generated reprint of these. I wonder if anyone has the license...

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: question for geoff and a sad tale

engelstein — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:36:16 +0000

by engelstein

Thanks! I'm gathering all these testimonials together to see if I can get Zev to push it up in the pipeline :) It's tough waiting to see where you are in the queue without being annoying...

[thing=798]Ace of Aces[/thing] is a terrific game -- good choice. I have a bunch of the sets, including some of the spinoffs like the not-nearly-as-good [thing=3089]Bounty Hunter[/thing] or the [thing=1421]Lost Worlds[/thing] books. There was even a [thing=3970]Battletech[/thing] version. Our local game store actually has a copy of Ace of Aces on the shelves if you're interested. Let me know and I can find out how much they want for it.

The game system itself is actually quite simple at the core, although it is tough to lay it out as a designer -- especially since this was pre-computer. And it is, of course, exceedingly clever.

One of the keys is that at the start of each turn both players are on the same page. So there are about 200 possible 'states' the system can be in, that represent the spatial relationship between the two planes. So if you picture a big matrix representing doing each maneuver at each of those states -- so you'd have all those possible actions (i.e. gradual left turn while in state 32) across the top of the matrix, and the opponent's possible actions down the side. So you have one big-ass matrix.

Now for each box in the matrix (combination of your move and your opponent's move) the designer needs to determine what the final relative position of the planes would be, and put that number in the box.

The clever part is grouping all of those results for a certain starting position and your move onto a single page. So basically when your opponent tells what page to go to, he is telling you what move he is doing (what slice of the matrix you are in). And then when you look up your own move on that page you are narrowing that slice down to a single box.

I guess when I lay it out like that it isn't quite that simple :) But the principle is. Plus the designer was able to simplify a lot of it at longer ranges by frequently sending you to the dreaded page 223, which is 'off the board'. And it would be a lot easier to do now with a computer.

Hope this helps! If you're really interested, try setting it up yourself in a limited space -- like close range, with only a few possible moves. You'll start to see how it all fits together.

Geoff

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

ramkitty — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:29:13 +0000

by ramkitty

awsome, you have a good crew to try something chaotic like space alert where the chaos is in the play which leads to smart plays he will have less chance to dick move when the game does it for you of course he could do my favorite and look out the window..

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

Oldman20 — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:36:02 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

Dustin, you are right on the money. My son is indeed 8. I think that my son really likes direct confrontation in games. He likes the "I'm up and you are down" dynamic -- definitely an Ameritrash guy. He doesn't like Qwirkle or Cloud 9 and loves Warcraft the Board Game, Battlelore, Neuroshima Hex and Nexus Ops. So, I think when he sees conflict in a game, he is attracted to it and wants to exploit it.

We had a lively discussion over the dinner table about this thread. As I said, I don't think I have a problem with Joker play in a game that will tolerate it (e.g. Niagara), so I wasn't trying to get him to see the error of his ways, but more just to find out how he thinks about his play and why he pursued his "over the falls" strategy. My wife observed that my son really likes to let his imagination take over in these games and really sees the action of the game taking place, and it is just funny to think of canoes going down. Of course, he isn't picturing the bone-crushing impact at the bottom, just the "Aaaaaaaaaah" on the way down. My son concurred and gave some more examples from how he plays Warcraft III, the computer game. It reminded my wife of the post about different kind of Pokemon players, those who want to make cool decks (for various reasons) and those who want to win.

My son used to get really upset about losing games, but he has come a long way on that. When we talked about how other players might get upset with the Joker strategy, his answer was "It's just a game."

Now, when I pressed my son on the issue of how playing the Joker strategy in games where your behavior would be stronger in determining the winner (e.g. kingmaking), he thought that wasn't so cool. However, when I gave him a concrete example, such as a multiplayer Neuroshima Hex, he said that he might just go after his sister and let me win. (I guess we won't be playing any multi-player Neuroshima Hex.) In Nexus Ops, he just likes to make dragons and breathe fire and crush all who stand before him.

The problem here is that talking about the Joker play has made my son fall in love with the idea of it, and so now in all discussions about this he loves talking about the Joker play.

To give one last story, we have played two games of I'm the Boss, and my son won both games. In the last game, he definitely was trying to win and it was my daughter who did the Joker play. She just wanted to be part of every deal if she could and would accept $1 million (the lowest amount possible) for her contribution. She kept saying that she made more than if she wasn't part of the deal. Needless to say, she finished last (or next to last). So, we do have a couple of Joker players.

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: question for geoff and a sad tale

casezz — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:20:51 +0000

by casezz

hi all, geoff my question in a minute, but let me say that i'm very anxious to play your game. i computer gamed avidly from when i got my first ibm ps/2 model 30286 something more than 20 years ago. i would play a lot alone and then with my kids as they grew up. great fun. a year ago i had 7 pc's in the house. alas, dell and microsoft conspired to ruin it all for me and the last time my machine crashed (which i've finally discovered was also an nvidia driver problem) i got rid of all of it. several pc's and all games except my rts' and rpg's that i still play with the kids. at the same time a friend introduced me to Dominion, Carcassone and Pandemic in a single day of gaming goodness, and that sealed the coffin of my pc gaming habit. and good riddance. i digress only to say that i can't wait to play your game due to being able to relive some rts goodness. congrats to having it published and to have a great way to spend time with your kid(s).

my question is how does the game Ace of Aces work. Have you heard of this one? i had this one http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/798 each page of the book depicts the sight from the cockpit of your wwi plane including your opponent (i.e., the game is aware somehow of the position of the two planes in space). if you know it, then you know you pick a move from the diagrams at the bottom of the page and the number beneath it is the page that your opponent goes to in his book and he tells you what page to go to in yours, and then i forget if that's the page you end on or if you somehow turn to yet another page. anyway, i've been fascinated with the mechanics of this game for decades every since having and playing it as a kid.

and that's my sad story. i had this game and loved it and no matter how many times i search my parents house i haven't found it. i found and now have all my old avalon hill games (third reich, king maker, up front and others), but i've never found aoa. i still look as i can't quite give up doing so. man that game was good fun, and you could play it anywhere. they even were developing the system into a western shooter type of game.

anyway, even without a copy of the game, knowing how it worked would be quite satisfying and i thought you may know of it and know the secret. hope all is well and make sure zev prints a big first run of your game. hard to believe it wouldn't sell well. best, c

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

brentont — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:45:02 +0000

by brentont

I have noticed these same "joker" factors in my son. It's almost like if he can kill, block or destroy another player in any way shape or form he has already won the game. Regardless of how many times he actually loses a game. Down to his only stratigy in Chateau Roquefort is to make someone elses mouse fall down a hole. He has yet to collect more than on piece of cheese in a game.

Sometimes the "Joker" can do very little to a game to break it for every one else. Is this the fault of the game design? I dont know. But if some one only ever offers 1 card and collects three every round of Oasis. Eventually the deck gets very thin and the other players easily guess what cards are being recycled over and over.

Do I want and or need this in my gaming experiences? Do I avoid games that are easily broken by someone who has given up and is doing what they think is only hurting themselves when in fact they are messing up every one elses experience? NO. But sometimes it happens and we just have to roll with it and move on to another game.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

ramkitty — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:40:52 +0000

by ramkitty

I think the situation depends on several things. The age of the boy which was not mentioned. Based on how he is playing, I would say he is 8 to 10. If he is being random and attacking everyone I think it is alright if that is how he wishes to play.

Beating on the same person (the get dad stratagy I employed in my youth) then it can be problematic. I was a shit and would beat on my father for no benifit to myself just to see him seep frustration, games oozed tention yet he often came back for more.

This kind of play I think should be discouraged but not scorned. It is a game first and formost and as long as EVERYONE is having fun thats what counts. Being reduced to tears because of a neverending enslaught of pain is totally different. If there are problems I have found that just pointing out benifitial moves have lead to less difficult situations.

Is he capable of winning (or has he won) this game? Is he bored causing him to be chaotic?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

TomVasel — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:15:50 +0000

by TomVasel

I agree with Geoff. I don't want to sound stuffy, as I love when people try ridiculous strategies or odd ways to victories.

But if your method of "fun" is to cause as much pain for other players, and it's random and extremely non-beneficial to you - then it can be dreadfully annoying. In one game it might be funny. In every game, people will stop playing with you after a while.

I'll admit that when I played Niagara, I really hoped canoes would go over the falls - and was disappointed how difficult it was for that to happen. So I certainly understand your son's thoughts on that regards. But if his fun comes at the expense of the fun of everyone else in the game, then there is a problem.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

engelstein — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:37:49 +0000

by engelstein

Oldman20 wrote:
Geoff, I guess I don't know exactly what you mean by "not tolerate that type of play on a general basis."

What I mean was that if whenever we played a family game my kid only tried to screw around with the other players and cause 'chaos' I wouldn't include them in the future. Especially if we were playing a longer game.

In terms of Logan's comment, I applaud anyone trying crazy strategies -- I would never 'demand' or expect that people play optimally. Trying to find new ways to win, that perhaps even the designer never saw, is part of the fun of gaming -- and a topic I touch on tangentially in the upcoming GameTek. However, I would be a little circumspect about trying something radically different or 'crazy' in a longer game -- like the aforementioned Twilight Imperium, for example. Some games are too long to support a player that implodes and paves the way for other players to dominate. If circumstances warrant, go ahead and take a chance, but don't blow up a six hour game for the whole purpose of being 'different' without even a modicum of good outcomes possible.

Geoff

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

GuppyGamer — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:32:36 +0000

by GuppyGamer

Mike,

Good thread.

In terms of family play, the joker as you describe can get a bit problematic as you no doubt observed. I can see my own son doing the same thing and reducing his little sister to tears as he goes out of his way to destroy her canoes, along with everyone else's.

Given that some gamers can have the same attitude as my daughter, this can be problematic. It is one thing to play competitively and be "nasty" when it provides some net benefit to yourself, but often the chaotic player adopts a spiteful strategy whose only benefit is seeing other players fret and fume. Under certain conditions, this can lead to a horrible night of gaming in which many players will not return.

I don't mind a bit of craziness and chaos from a joker, but nastiness for the sake of nastiness can get tiresome and alienate players and friends.

I know that some jokers will simply dismiss such concerns as being from folks who aren't tough enough to be in their gaming group. Maybe so, but such an attitude may also unnecessarily limit your gaming group.

Pat

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

Oldman20 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:15:51 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

Geoff, I guess I don't know exactly what you mean by "not tolerate that type of play on a general basis." I could agree with the idea that if I saw the Joker at a gaming event, I wouldn't suggest a game with a large Joker factor (i.e. games where a random player's action would largely determine the outcome of the game). However, I wouldn't have a problem playing Race for the Galaxy, Can't Stop, Pitch Car, Niagra, etc. with such a player. There are lots of games where a random player just won't be the determining factor in who wins. I certainly wouldn't want to play Shadows over Camelot or really any team game with such a player.

Logan, it sounds like your chaotic moves are very interesting; however, it seems that you are still always trying to win -- just is some crazy ways. What happens if in Axis and Allies the US player only builds bombers and flies them on suicide missions. That is the kind of idea my son might get in his head. Although I have to admit that the last game of Warcraft the Board Game I played with my son he crushed me with an only ranged weapons strategy. Sometimes it works.

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

logalog — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:22:43 +0000

by logalog

I really enjoyed this thread and appreciate it because I am a "joker" player. Now I think that my issue is that I tend not to have "gamers" around me. Those that know and are actually interested in strategies and so most of the time I play a game I tend to win. Now because of this I have resolved and actually quite enjoy finding out how I can lose in both the most spectacular way but also in a way that the other players don't know I"m trying to lose. The biggest thing for me is that I get board and need to spice up my game play. Trying to figure out strategies that no one else saw coming or was so random that I keep the other players on their toes. I agree for the most part that there are some games that you can do this and others not. The big one for me is strategic games such as twilight imperium, or axis and allies. The funny thing is that when you do these random acts that about 50% of the time they work. I've taken moscow with japan ,in the older version, with attacking with a few infintry and then blitzing with two tanks. I've taken home worlds, true I tended to lose my foot holds or anything else I put into the assaults but I was able to give myself an extra turn or extra resources and enjoyed watching the minds of my opponents turn around and around as they had to rethink strategies. Chaos is what can bring a game to a whole new level. Fear the random because is it brilliant stratagies or just curiosity of what we can do?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

engelstein — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:18:06 +0000

by engelstein

I don't know... I disagree. I understand that people may have somewhat different goals than winning the game, but I wouldn't tolerate that type of play on a general basis. I think there is an implicit contract that players will try to achieve the objectives of the game (i.e. win) or at least try to better their position. That's the difference between a game and a toy -- there's a goal.

Geoff

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: The Joker Factor -- Playing with the sower of chaos.

Oldman20 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:47:40 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

Last night we played [thing=13308]Niagara[/thing] for "Family Game Night" and it was very interesting. I enjoyed the game, although my rather competitive children did get a little too emotionally involved in the game (there were tears). I cried when I lost games as a kid, so I can understand the emotion. I suppose that is why we have game night -- to help the kids work through these things. But I digress.

For those who don't know the game, it has a really interesting mechanic where you are sliding these river tiles down the board and there is a waterfall at the end of the river. The players control canoes and move them by playing cards. Players also have some control over how fast the river moves. It also has a bit of a nasty streak. The goal of the game is to collect these gems and you are allowed to steal gems from other players' canoes. There is sort of a bash the leader endgame where someone has the gem that they need, so everyone steals from them. The game ends only when you get multiple people who are poised to win and they can't all be stopped.

My son's goal in the game was to get canoes to go over the waterfall. He collected some gems and played by the rules, but his goal was to make other players' boats take the big plunge. He even lost one of his canoes, but he didn't care. He also liked to steal gems from people whenever he could. I told him that he was being "The Joker" from Batman. He is was just enjoying the chaos. I think that this is perfectly fine. It made the game harder for the rest of us but not in a bad way. We just needed to play with that in mind and I forgot about it one time and it cost me a canoe.

However, it did get me thinking about the issue of someone "breaking" a game by pursuing their own fun rather than trying to meet the victory conditions. And I think that I am OK with that. The game is supposed to be fun. A player is having fun. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Now the question is how does it affect the game when someone does that. It depends how much player interaction there is. There are some games, like Yahtzee, where it would have no effect. The Joker just has a lower or higher score depending on what his secret strategy is and how lucky he gets. The next step up in interaction is a game like "Race for the Galaxy." It seems to me that if you play with the Joker, then you just have to figure out his wacky goal (which may be impossible -- like maybe he wants to build Disneyland with only entertainment goods) and plan accordingly, or just to drop him out of your calculations as he is too unpredictable, and just take his phase as just so much gravy.

Games with an even higher level of interaction make things more challenging and problematic. Many games only really "work" if all players are pursuing the optimal strategy, because the biggest check on one player's advancement is that of the other players. Take for example Puerto Rico. Everyone says that you want to sit to the left of the new player, because he won't take the action that you need, while the experienced player will. So the Joker basically acts as a kingmaker and his random actions become the most important determiner of the game's outcome.

Clearly, this is not a problem in two player games, but is something that can only happen in multi-player games. I would say that this should probably be viewed fundamentally as a weakness in the game rather than the player. Multi-player games needs to have a Joker factor which indicated how well the mechanics of the game can tolerate the actions of a random player. There might also be the vengence factor which means that a player can take another player out of the game if they are willing to sacrifice their own chance at victory.

There are several ways one can benefit from a random player. One is to be person who takes the opportunities that the Joker is forgoing. Another is that the Joker is supposed to be stopping a certain player, and they aren't.

It seems to me that one issue that would be important is if a player has to earn assets in the game, or are they given such assets as a starting position. If a player has to earn the assets, then they are probably less likely to squander them as they represent some kind of effort to acquire. Also a random player won't get many assets and so no particular player can benefit by being the person who "takes them out."

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

unfathomable — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:08:00 +0000

by unfathomable

Three things came up to my mind when listening to the podcast.

First, given that the top 10 was about party games, it would have been nice to hear more about [thing=39856][/thing], as it seems to be garnering very good reviews. In fact, of all the games classified as "party game" and have more than 250 votes in BGG, it has the second highest average rating, just below the original [thing=1353][/thing]. So, I would be interested in Tome and Eric's comments in the later shows if possible.

Second, I was interested in how the term "party game" was defined for the sake of this top ten list. I would treat games like [thing=38159]Werewolf[/thing] and [thing=19237][/thing] as party games, and BGG also classify them as party games. I wonder what makes Tom and Eric feel like they provide the different kind of experience from games like [thing=74][/thing].

Third, I've never played [thing=17226]Descent[/thing] or [thing=10640]Doom[/thing], and they are not really my kind of games, but I voted for [thing=10640]Doom[/thing] just out of respect for the rant.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:12:43 +0000

by caradoc

TomVasel wrote:
I just thought I'd look at the poll at the beginning of the thread, and see the results, regardless of how it was worded.

Hmmm, I'm seeing a bit of Scrappy Doo here.

Poll Shmoll, it doesn't matter how many accounts you make to vote for Descent Tom! :p

_____
hehehe, hmm. The results don't look too good. :D

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

TomVasel — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:59:33 +0000

by TomVasel

I just thought I'd look at the poll at the beginning of the thread, and see the results, regardless of how it was worded.

Hmmm, I'm seeing a bit of Scrappy Doo here.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:13:12 +0000

by caradoc

h3rne wrote:
Mike A wrote:
I think we should term that the "ludorati".

The idea has merit. How about it Giles?

I like it! Excellent suggestion.

h3rne wrote:
Anyway, thanks for another great show. I'm really enjoying the solo and game-tech segments, another great top 10 too, but Giles really stole the show this time; firstly, and somewhat bewilderingly, by making sense, and good sense at that, in his Ludorati segment; secondly with his blistering defence of DOOM. Sadly I've never played either Descent or DOOM, but Giles totally sold me on DOOM. An awesome and laugh-out-loud hilarious contribution of legend-making proportions.

Thanks Guys and Keep it comin'!

Sorry for not posting sooner! I've been away with my sister-in-law's wedding and various other bits and pieces! - I haven't even responded to Tom's sobbing letters begging for forgiveness for suggesting Descent could even be compared favourably to Doom! Don't worry Tom - all is forgiven :p

Thank's for the very kind words! They are much appreciated! It's always really nice to read someone's response to a segment, and it's even better when it's such a nice response. I hope you keep enjoying the show!!

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: Off Topic:: Re: First Attempt at a Church Game Day

Egal — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:13:55 +0000

by Egal

You are all so blessed my church isn't interested in games:(

Paul

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Essen Report

jonnyalpha — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:42:17 +0000

by jonnyalpha

ALGO wrote:
Can't say I see the attraction of Essen.

I'd want to be playing games, not stuck in crowds being jostled.

But that's just me.

A

You old curmudgeon!:p

There is a real buzz about these events. I've only been to the UK Games expo but would love to get to Essen one of these days.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Essen Report

amosmj — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:13:45 +0000

by amosmj

Welcome back Tom. I look forward to the reviews of the new games especially Ants!.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Essen Report

SlikkRikk — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:43:53 +0000

by SlikkRikk

So glad to hear you made it out, Tom.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Essen Report

ALGO — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:56:53 +0000

by ALGO

Can't say I see the attraction of Essen.

I'd want to be playing games, not stuck in crowds being jostled.

But that's just me.

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Essen Report

IndianaJohn — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:22:21 +0000

by IndianaJohn

Great list, Tom! I'm glad you had a chance to go. A trip to Essen is definitely on my "bucket list".

Now, to complete the gaming convention trifecta, might I suggest a visit to Gen Con someday? Cody and I will do all we can to make you feel welcome in beautiful Indianapolis (the Gaming Capital of the World). :D

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Essen Report

Ponton — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:25:11 +0000

by Ponton

Sorry, Tom, I wanted to say hello to you in Essen, but I got ill on Friday morning and had to return prematurely. Maybe next time. I'll read and listen to your reports with pleasure.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: GMT Interview

philmcd — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:46:15 +0000

by philmcd

Well now, I'm not a huge fan of interviews as there tends to be lot of waffle and backslapping in many of them (not talking specifically DT ones here). But GMT are my fave game company and I'm relishing this one. Well done Mark.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: Essen Report

TomVasel — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:59:32 +0000

by TomVasel

I had the privilege of going to the Spiel fair at Essen 2009.

Here's my report, part 1.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/47941

Part 2 will be in the Dice Tower podcast, and I might put some video together for part 3.

Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games"
www.thedicetower.com

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: GMT Interview

aslskfan — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:27:34 +0000

by aslskfan

Yes, it is the same interview, it just made Consim World a bit late.

The next interview to post comes in around 30 minutes. :D

It should post sometime soon.

I am glad to hear that you guys have enjoyed them!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

h3rne — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:21:38 +0000

by h3rne

Mike A wrote:
I think we should term that the "ludorati".

The idea has merit. How about it Giles?

First time guild poster here. I'm pretty new to the show and am currently working my way both backward (from 153) and forwards (from 65) though the back-catalog (currently up to 72 and down to 148) whilst keeping up to date with the current episodes (which is pretty disorientating - saying goodbye to Sam and then getting to know him, resisting the temptation to submit competition entries for competitions that happened over a year ago!).

Anyway, thanks for another great show. I'm really enjoying the solo and game-tech segments, another great top 10 too, but Giles really stole the show this time; firstly, and somewhat bewilderingly, by making sense, and good sense at that, in his Ludorati segment; secondly with his blistering defence of DOOM. Sadly I've never played either Descent or DOOM, but Giles totally sold me on DOOM. An awesome and laugh-out-loud hilarious contribution of legend-making proportions.

Thanks Guys and Keep it comin'!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: GMT Interview

kifty — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:12:47 +0000

by kifty

kabutor wrote:
Is this the same as the one Tom linked a weeks ago?

Wich by the way was great, a bit short, I dont know why it wasnt included into the main program.

I agree. That interview definitely should have been in the main show, and I'm definitely not someone who would confider himself a wargamer. Great work, Mark!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: GMT Interview

kabutor — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:41:39 +0000

by kabutor

Is this the same as the one Tom linked a weeks ago?

Wich by the way was great, a bit short, I dont know why it wasnt included into the main program.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: GMT Interview

aslskfan — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:29:46 +0000

by aslskfan

As seen on Consim World:

Interview: Tony Curtis of GMT Games
The Dice Tower interviews Tony Curtis, President of GMT Games. Discussion covers current GMT products as well as future releases. Listen to the broadcast (Runtime: 13:10). [Join Discussion]

http://www.consimworld.com/archives/002382.html

I hope you guys and gals are enjoying these interviews.

I have another getting ready to post.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Episode 159 Delay

wmreed — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:06:36 +0000

by wmreed

IndianaJohn wrote:
thdizzy wrote:
I'm definitely looking forward to the next episode. I hope Tom does a brief review of German sausages in the next show. I know he does a thorough food overview for the Gencon show, so he has to be fair with Essen and talk about the food in Germany too.

Fear not, Diz. Even when talking about Essen, I'm sure Tom will go on and on about how great Columbus's North Market is. :p :ninja:

As he should! North Market is AWESOME! I'm blessed to live in town.:)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

Eggo — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:20:10 +0000

by Eggo

I don't know why, but I always look tan, even if I don't go out at all. I probably got tanned by being on the outside of the Essen halls for roughly 2 minutes before this picture was taken (the sun was shining)....

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Episode 159 Delay

IndianaJohn — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:01:33 +0000

by IndianaJohn

thdizzy wrote:
I'm definitely looking forward to the next episode. I hope Tom does a brief review of German sausages in the next show. I know he does a thorough food overview for the Gencon show, so he has to be fair with Essen and talk about the food in Germany too.

Fear not, Diz. Even when talking about Essen, I'm sure Tom will go on and on about how great Columbus's North Market is. :p :ninja:

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Episode 159 Delay

thdizzy — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:53:09 +0000

by thdizzy

I'm definitely looking forward to the next episode. I hope Tom does a brief review of German sausages in the next show. I know he does a thorough food overview for the Gencon show, so he has to be fair with Essen and talk about the food in Germany too.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

thdizzy — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:50:42 +0000

by thdizzy

Tom at Essen? I thought it would never happen. What's the story behind that?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Episode 159 Delay

brentont — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:06:10 +0000

by brentont

it will be worth the wait to hear toms impressions of essen.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: What is with the door?

bippi — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:51:15 +0000

by bippi

If I were smart and good with garageband, I'd totally rock a Tom Vasel "Shut the Door" remix.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: Episode 159 Delay

AmazingIntern — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:12:30 +0000

by AmazingIntern

Hey everybody,

Tom and I forgot to mention this during Episode 158, but due to our respective vacations and the chaos that we were bound to hit upon our return, we thought it was best to delay the recording of 159 by a week. Sorry for the delay, but it's for the best. I know I'm just as anxious as you are to hear about Tom's trip to Essen!

Thanks for listening!
Eric

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

silk — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:54:09 +0000

by silk

Another picture in that row:

http://picasaweb.google.com/melissainau/Essen09Day1Thursday#...

That's me buying resource meeples from Hanno. I was the only one buying things in that moment. I had to met Hanno by accident and asked him if he wants to sell me something. He answered: Only if you don't want to wait at the queue at the booth. Of course I bought. :-)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: What is with the door?

Jighm — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:05:08 +0000

by Jighm

I think that the camera was showing that there isn't even a door there to shut. At least I didn't see one. I don't know who the guy was.

JB

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

Oldman20 — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:02:07 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

A couple of things: First, I have to say that when I look at game experiences, Doom has better memories. My daughter loved wielding the chainsaw. Descent has no chainsaw equivalent, at least in the base game. I think I like the theme of Descent better, but Doom is much more tense.

Second, rather than seeding the deck for a kids version of Time's Up, I used some cards from a copy of Charades for Kids. I actually played it last night with my kids and they had a blast. I imagine you could use the cards from Kids Apples to Apples or any other kids game that has objects listed on cards.

Finally, the top ten list was somewhat unsatisfying -- not the subject matter, but the approach taken by Tom and Eric. It seemed like there were a number of entries where the guys were judging the game for idiosyncratic reasons. Tom says Faces is the best game, but not the Faces game listed on Board Game Geek, but rather Tom Vasel's faces with his own personalized deck. I don't think that Tom thinks that Faces, the publicly available version with the animals and the two rounds, is the best party game of all time.

Similarly, I like Balderdash, but I think that the "game" is actually kind of broken. What is fun is when people stop thinking of real plausible definitions, but just start writing really funny definitions. Those definitions usually don't get any votes, but they crack everyone up. Thus, the game is made great by the activities of the players who aren't trying to win. This is why the Apples to Apples mechanic of someone judging works better for these kinds of games, and what makes games like "Why Did the Chicken" really work better as a game. In Balderdash, when people are just competing to make the most dry, obscure sounding dictionary definition, then people are impressed with other players' cleverness, but it isn't really hilarious or even that fun.

I think that the best games match up the mechanics of the game with the fun. This came up last week when Tom observed that he doesn't enjoy a game when a player pursues his own idea of fun but disregards the victory conditions of the game. In Balderdash, when people disregard the victory conditions the game becomes more fun. That makes the game a great experience, but not a great game. Games like "Times Up," my current favorite party game, lines up the game mechanics and the "Thing that is fun" very well and makes it a great game.

Great episode. Games to be redone: Destination: Tresor. I love the idea -- the game should feel like watching the movie "Predator" but it is just this lame deduction game. I am keeping the components because I feel like there is a great game to be made with these components, but they definitely didn't make it.

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

engelstein — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:40:01 +0000

by engelstein

Best bet is to go to the Funagain hosting page:

http://www.funagain.com/control/viewblog?contentBlogId=TDT

You can also grab back episodes through itunes.

Geoff

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

dhmiller1958 — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:18:54 +0000

by dhmiller1958

Am I looking in the right place for these episodes: http://www.thedicetower.com/thedicetower/index.php?page=epis...

Because I only see 141-152 on that page.

Love the show, by the way - just a bit behind in listening!

Thanks

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

Karlsen — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:28:04 +0000

by Karlsen

victor-rr wrote:
It seems like Tom and Moritz made it to Essen!

Take a look at BGG user melissa's photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/melissainau/Essen09Day1Thursday#...

and Laura and me too :cool:

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

fastfingers — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:12:31 +0000

by fastfingers

I just wanted to add my comment too. First, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Nice editorial Giles. Loved it. Second, I actually prefer Doom: The Boardgame over Descent: Journeys in the Dark. They are both good games but I much prefer the tension and science-fiction theme of Doom.

Great podcast.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: What is with the door?

bwingrave — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:10:20 +0000

by bwingrave

Yeah, I didn't recognize the guy by the door either, so the whole point of the door part of the video went over my head.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: Off Topic:: Re: Modern Art?!?!

mpgrace — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:02:38 +0000

by mpgrace

I might buy the older version for my friend I hope she likes it...
If not she can always give it to me.. Catch 22

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: which game conf to bring a 10yr old to?

aslskfan — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:58:49 +0000

by aslskfan

My kids had fun at both Origins and GenCon. I think they like Origns better because it is smaller, they have been there much more often, they play board games more often than CCGs or RPGs, and see many more people that they know at Origins. For us it has more of a big "family" party feel to it.

The dealer room at GenCon is MUCH larger than it is at Origins. However, I find better deals at Origns than I do at GenCon.

The auction is MUCH, MUCH better at GenCon than it is at Origins. This also includes the auction store.

Like Geoff said, the boardgaming at Origins is much better than GenCon, but CCGs, and RPGs are much better at GenCon.

Food, I give the nod to Origins. I have not been to GenCon enough as of late to sniff out the best places to eat.

The Dice Tower folks are normally at Origins, and not at GenCon (if this has any meaning to you at all). The listner dinners, etc. are a great time.

Looks like GenCon is a much closer drive for you.

Which ever you decide, just have fun. Because, in the end that is all that really matters. :D

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

Hav0k — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:17:30 +0000

by Hav0k

Want to see more of Tom and Moritz????

they are in the front row of a Stronghold demo!!!!

I knew I was going to see them in front of that camera... hehehe

check them out

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2407299

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

aslskfan — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:11:18 +0000

by aslskfan

jmoody wrote:
Quick Eric, record an episode!

I will have another interview for you to post soon.... :D

Mortiz is looking tan.

Looks like they are having fun. I wonder if they have found Mary or Brad yet.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

jmoody — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:33:47 +0000

by jmoody

Quick Eric, record an episode!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

Mommica — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:29:33 +0000

by Mommica

Ya for Laura! :D

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

SamHealey — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:04:17 +0000

by SamHealey

Ya' beat me to the punch, Victor!!

:D

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: Hey, that's Tom and Moritz at Essen!

victor-rr — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:25:12 +0000

by victor-rr

It seems like Tom and Moritz made it to Essen!

Take a look at BGG user melissa's photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/melissainau/Essen09Day1Thursday#...

Can't wait until you tell us all about it Tom!

I hope you have a great time and get a lot of games.

Cheers.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: What is with the door?

robcannonsoftware — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:53:54 +0000

by robcannonsoftware

?

And congrats on 1000 reviews!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

chrdona1970 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:44:03 +0000

by chrdona1970

Re: IV-V-I

I have (and love) this game. I'm working on my Masters in Music, and an undergrad introduced this to me earlier in the semester when I happened upon three of them playing a game.

I like its accessibility. Even if you don't know about music theory (the basis of the game), the cards pretty much tell you how they can be played with simple iconography. The composer cards allow for scoring twists, and some of them actually limit the kinds of cards that can be played. It also allows for player interaction in the "part-writing" errors that can be played on players' phrases. Eric mentioned that this is a music education games that actually LOOKS like a game and I couldn't agree more.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

Mike A — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:43:20 +0000

by Mike A

caradoc wrote:
...there exists a large 'literati' of game enthusiasts...

I think we should term that the "ludorati".

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: 2 more Conquer Club Games

logalog — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:27:14 +0000

by logalog

Good I'm going to be smacked upside the head the first game maybe I can come back with this one.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

davestephens — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:36:08 +0000

by davestephens

AmazingIntern wrote:
enricodandolo wrote:
Hey, Eric. Could you give some more details about the "rules" of your group's game selection process? I could really use something to cut down the time that people stand around the tables wondering what we're going to play and who is going to play it.

No problem!

Each year, Joe (our group leader and host) takes the names of all of the "regulars", shuffles them up, and puts them in order. This is the "pick list". When we get together on a Sunday night, the next name on the list chooses the first game. If there are enough people for two tables, the person with "second pick" gets a choice. They may sit on the game chosen by "first pick" (delaying their choice of game until later in the evening), or they may choose a new game.

If "second pick" sits on the first game, the "third pick" person MUST choose something new. This avoids that "me too" cascade, and keeps things moving. This process continues until there are enough games for everyone to play something (usually two or three tables, depending on attendance), and then all of the remaining players commit to one of the games that have been chosen.

If games finish at about the same time as each other, we simply start the process over again with the next names on the list. Often, though, if one game is significantly longer than the others, the list will continue without the players from that larger group. Alternately, the quicker group will play a filler until the slower group is done. We play it by ear.

If your pick comes up and you're not there that week, you lose your turn and we move to the next name (that way you don't get ten picks in a row after you've been away for a month). However, if, say, you came to the meeting but left at 9:00, but your pick came up at 9:30, you'd get first pick next week.

This all sounds like a lot of rules, but it's worked well for our group. It avoids that "so... what do you want to play?" "I dunno... what do YOU want to play" time sink, and also gives group members who are in the minority on liking a game a chance to bring it to the table. Occasionally, you end up on a game that's not your favorite, but you know that when it's your turn and you bring out your underrated gem, you'll have a full complement of players.

Hope that all makes sense.
Eric

Yeah, Joe has quite a system going on over there. He'll probably have his own con soon!

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: 2 more Conquer Club Games

Sir Loin o Beef — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:41:11 +0000

by Sir Loin o Beef

...awaiting players

#5767403 (I forget. Anyone here in this game?)

#5779428 pw= greg

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

eatshootsandleafs — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:57:35 +0000

by eatshootsandleafs

Giles great review it was good to hear Tom put in his place. I will now be considering doom instead of descent. I haven't made my mind up yet but you certainly gave me something to think about.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Tom's 1000th review

mcook144 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:13:13 +0000

by mcook144

Thanks for the fun and hilarious review Tom. I look forward to all your funny bits with the kids.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: 1000th review

Cherocoy — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:50:36 +0000

by Cherocoy

victor-rr wrote:
I couldn't believe that Tom had chosen *that* game for his 1000th review, but the review may be the most entertaining one he has done so far.

It's up there :thumbsup: but my favorite is still the one where he almost flushed the game down the toilet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK8Mtr2MCco

Looking forward to the next 1,000.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Tom's 1000th review

aslskfan — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:41:08 +0000

by aslskfan

Is he a man, or is he a machine!?! :laugh:

Congrats on 1,000 Tom! :D

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

Shrieking Emu — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:27:20 +0000

by Shrieking Emu

I had completely forgotten about Doom! Based on the plays I've had, I have to give the edge to Doom over Descent, if only because I play fantasy RPGs like D&D quite a bit and Doom serves as a nice change of pace.

Now to revise my Top Te...er...Eleven...:cool:

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

jmoody — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:20:11 +0000

by jmoody

amosmj wrote:
what was the name of that music theory game that Eric and Tom talked about? My wife has master's degree in music and I have a feeling I'm about to get a crash course in theory.

IV-V-I.
I saw some images of this game a couple of weeks ago, and was also intrigued. My wife has a master's in music as well. I am looking forward to hearing if this is actually any fun.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

amosmj — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:05:26 +0000

by amosmj

what was the name of that music theory game that Eric and Tom talked about? My wife has master's degree in music and I have a feeling I'm about to get a crash course in theory.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:41:15 +0000

by caradoc

RobertDD wrote:
TomVasel wrote:
If this is a sincere comment, then this is the single funnies thing I've read all week!!!

RobertDD wrote:
I'm a big fan of the show so I thought I'd say hi. Great episode. Eric is doing great as Sam's replacement, I really like all the different voices he does, except I didn't care for the weird Crocodile Dundee impression he did in the Doom review.

Great, great show though. Thanks for doing this!

That was actually a joke :) I'm glad you got a kick out of it.

In reality, I really enjoy Giles' sections quite a bit (even though I can only understand every second word or so.)

:D

Great comment Robert! Thanks for the kind words - I'll try and talk slower in future ;)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

RobertDD — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:25:15 +0000

by RobertDD

TomVasel wrote:
If this is a sincere comment, then this is the single funnies thing I've read all week!!!

RobertDD wrote:
I'm a big fan of the show so I thought I'd say hi. Great episode. Eric is doing great as Sam's replacement, I really like all the different voices he does, except I didn't care for the weird Crocodile Dundee impression he did in the Doom review.

Great, great show though. Thanks for doing this!

That was actually a joke :) I'm glad you got a kick out of it.

In reality, I really enjoy Giles' sections quite a bit (even though I can only understand every second word or so.)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Tom's 1000th review

victor-rr — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:17:10 +0000

by victor-rr

I couldn't believe that Tom had chosen *that* game for his 1000th review, but the review may be the most entertaining one he has done so far.

Good job Tom!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Tom's 1000th review

amosmj — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:02:20 +0000

by amosmj

Stupid question but, if there is no door that needs closing, what started that Meme?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:59:26 +0000

by caradoc

dhittle wrote:
Hahaha, I'm laughing my butt off here. I liked the Doom verbal jousting. It was like he channeled a blood thirsty Don King which left Tom stunned with a quick uppercut to the cerebral cortex!

Keep up the good work everyone!

Bam! That's the idea Doug! A Doom upper-cut! Right to card-board chit! Bam!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

caradoc — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:52:17 +0000

by caradoc

Kids these days need some good ol' Doom: The Boardgame playing.

I think we all agree!

Yeah - of course we do! Vote for Doom: The Boardgame!

(this post is not sponsored by anyone, for any nefarious purpose, so long as Tom doesn't win the grudge match :ninja: )

Cheers,

Anonymous Contributor.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

ALGO — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:10:07 +0000

by ALGO

Oldman20 wrote:

I decided I was a professional racquetball player. I also decided that I would be pretty irresponsible and so didn't buy a house or insure my car. But then my wife had a baby, and I had to settle down and buy a house at the next opportunity. Every player landed on a space for my golf tournament and I made a pretty penny sponsoring that event. I didn't give any money to the local college like I said I would and I just used it to pay for my sailboat. I ended the game with the least amount of money so I said that my agent ran off with all my earnings.

The Game Of Life RPG is notable in that we are all already playing it, all the time...

Great post!

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

MajorOracle — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:48:17 +0000

by MajorOracle

I apologize for ruffling any feathers with my comments.

May you have enjoyable gaming experiences with your kids.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

dhittle — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:19:21 +0000

by dhittle

Hahaha, I'm laughing my butt off here. I liked the Doom verbal jousting. It was like he channeled a blood thirsty Don King which left Tom stunned with a quick uppercut to the cerebral cortex!

Keep up the good work everyone!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:00:09 +0000

by caradoc

baychang wrote:
I had to vote for Doom, no matter what my personal feelings about the two games are... Giles, this was the pinnacle of your Dice Tower contributions thus far. :laugh:

The votes are creeping up!! Woohoo!

Thanks for the very kind words!

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

baychang — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:51:10 +0000

by baychang

I had to vote for Doom, no matter what my personal feelings about the two games are... Giles, this was the pinnacle of your Dice Tower contributions thus far. :laugh:

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:42:02 +0000

by caradoc

Funny, yes, and heartbreaking for a certain contributor :cry: :laugh:

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Tom's 1000th review

Mommica — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:23:18 +0000

by Mommica

Who was the Golem behind the door? :p

Thread: The Dice Tower:: News:: Tom's 1000th review

raviv — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:57:13 +0000

by raviv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tas5aCeNgEU

Excellent choice for this special event, and excellent "Episode".

Tom, you are doing a wonderful job!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

TomVasel — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:43:38 +0000

by TomVasel

If this is a sincere comment, then this is the single funnies thing I've read all week!!!

RobertDD wrote:
I'm a big fan of the show so I thought I'd say hi. Great episode. Eric is doing great as Sam's replacement, I really like all the different voices he does, except I didn't care for the weird Crocodile Dundee impression he did in the Doom review.

Great, great show though. Thanks for doing this!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:00:43 +0000

by caradoc

RobertDD wrote:
except I didn't care for the weird Crocodile Dundee impression he did in the Doom review.

You what!?! Look cobber, you're not coming the raw prawn are you? Fair suck of the sav, I sound nothing like that Dundee galah! :laugh:

Glad to read you enjoy the show!

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

RobertDD — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:51:39 +0000

by RobertDD

I'm a big fan of the show so I thought I'd say hi. Great episode. Eric is doing great as Sam's replacement, I really like all the different voices he does, except I didn't care for the weird Crocodile Dundee impression he did in the Doom review.

Great, great show though. Thanks for doing this!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: which game conf to bring a 10yr old to?

jmoody — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:50:21 +0000

by jmoody

You know your kid better than anyone else, so I would think a lot would depend on what kind of person he is.

The bigger cons have much more going on to break up the gaming, but I can imagine them being a little intimidating (I was nervous as an adult the first time).

The smaller local cons are less intimidating perhaps, but much of the time only offer gaming.

I have not managed to get my oldest son (now 10) to a con yet, although I have tried to work it out a couple of times. When I do get him to go, it will be Origins over something like the Columbus Area Boardgamers con, since although he loves playing the games, he will equally love being in the dealer room.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

JediStitch — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:55:48 +0000

by JediStitch

I have an 8 year old and he's tolerant of loosing,but he loves to win. I tend to "take it easy" on him on certain games - like HeroScape - or handicap it in certain ways. In 'Scape, for example, I let him pick three pieces (regardless of point cost) and then build my army based on that. I ususally spot him quite a few points to balance it out and we're about 50/50 on winning, which is good for both of us. :p

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: which game conf to bring a 10yr old to?

engelstein — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:33:11 +0000

by engelstein

Short answer -- they're all good. Seriously -- we've always had a good time at cons with the family, whether it was WBC (when my kids were around 10) or Origins or local cons.

If you are choosing between Origins & Gencon, I would go with his interests. If he likes MtG or other CCGs or CMGs then I would lean towards Gencon. If he likes boardgames, then Origins. If that's a toss-up I would probably go with Gencon just because the dealer room is much bigger and can be a lot of fun for a kid.

Geoff

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

casezz — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:29:10 +0000

by casezz

it's a decent idea. i've tried it before and it didn't work well, but that was a year or more ago. i'll give it another go. he gets so wrapped up in the emotion of when the tide goes against him that it's hard for him to come back from that. perhaps a break after a tough battle would work, but the explanation idea i think has merit. often i try to get him to play ccg's in an open hand format and he likes this. it removes the weight of trying to figure things out himself and we end up just talking through the options of what might be a good thing to do with the given turn situation. thanks for the thoughts.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

philmcd — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:13:53 +0000

by philmcd

Once my sons were about 6, I stopped LETTING them win games. Not that I used evry possible rule and tactic to it's utmost, but I generally beat them more than I lost.

HOWEVER, as I made my plays, I explained what I was doing and WHY.

That way, their victories were sweeter knowing that I hadn't let them win, and just as importantly, by the time they were 10 or 11 they could play as well as me (not in wargames, but we rarely played anything heavier than a war-themed game, the equivalent of Memoir '44 now).

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

casezz — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:55:38 +0000

by casezz

it's a balance, right. sometimes i let him win and other times he beats me fair and square and other times i win. what i've read is that you should let your kids win games as it builds confidence and makes it easier to lose other times. it's not that he doesn't understand that he doesn't always win. the issue is he invests himself emotionally so much that he gets overly upset when he loses. life is fairly hard on him in other ways (e.g., we require no spelling errors at all on his vocab tests or he loses screen time), so me losing games so he can win is also to be understood in the broader context of his life. further, a lot of what i ask him to play he's not going to win much at all as they're advanced games, so letting him win is thus leveling the playing field. i was a poor loser until around 30. i'm hoping he can be more advanced that his father by a couple decades and thus learn to love the hobby early.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: which game conf to bring a 10yr old to?

casezz — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:48:42 +0000

by casezz

hi all, i'm thinking of next year. trying to fool myself into thinking i'll be prepared for it this time. anyway, i'm new to the cardboard hobby and last year went to my first con, gencon. it was great. this year i'm wondering about bringing my son, who is 10. of the conferences i'm thinking of gencon, origins, and a couple of the smaller shorter ones, does anyone have an opinion of which is a good venue, and more importantly why? i've listened to the dice tower's mark z tell of origins as a good venue. just wondering if others have had luck with family and if so at what conf and why? much thanks, c

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:51:43 +0000

by caradoc

mi_de wrote:
I'm going to take up Giles statement that the games are designed 'better' these days. I find the designs simpler, easier, with less choices available. They are less prone to wild swings, runaway leaders, and such like. But I find there are few modern games that compare to the complexity and beauty of games like Civilization, Republic of Rome, Titan, Merchant of Venus, Magic Realm, Advanced Squad Leader, Empires of the Middle Ages, and American Megafauna. Modern games tend to focus more on determining a winner and loser in a short period of time, necessarily restricting players to a more numerically limited number of choices between beginning and end, like choosing a role, placing a tile in one of a half dozen possible locations, playing a set or drawing another card, or taking 10 action points to do things. I think they are seen as more 'elegant' because they are more limited and thus less prone to 'crashes'.

Not to say there are not some great designs now. What I consider modern classics are games like Here I Stand which, despite an enormous variety of what can be done in a single action, coherently holds together over a multi-hour playing time, something very hard to accomplish, or twilight Struggle which, despite 110 different cards playable in an enormous number of ways still manages to come out close with both sides capable of winning.

I'm not sure still how to phrase this properly. I think what best approximates what I am trying to say is that generally speaking the quality of released games is very high nowadays, and with that there exists a large 'literati' of game enthusiasts that benefit the industry as a whole. I'm not sure I should have said they are higher quality, for surely as you note there are some true classics that are 'older'. However, I think by and large, for the size of the industry today the general standard is higher, both mechanically and of course production wise.

As for 'big' games like those you listed. I think we are less likely to see these from 'big' companies - something like Runewars, Twilight Imperium and so forth are probably the closest 'mainstream-hobby' game you will get. Smaller, more boutique publishers like Sierra Madre are still making those games (I am enjoying Origins at the moment - and I loved AM), but I am not sure that the market of gamers encourages the publication of those games as much as it did - or maybe it does, but the output of the publishing industry today is so vast it is easy to lose those games in the noise...? In any case - modern (by which I mean of the more modern 'design-school) equivalents would be things like Origins: How we became Human, Through the Ages, etc etc. I think those 'style' of games still exist, they are just being informed by the broader game culture that is is prevalent today.

So basically:

I think quality has increased generally, I also think that the market wants a different style of game - mechanically sound, choices matter, not too long, etc etc. Theme, randomness, specific mechanics all then come vary based on taste and target audience.

What I really was trying to get at though - and the main point of that segment - was that I think having a game-literate community aware of designers is more condusive to a positive and vibrant culture of game design. Does designer credit matter? I think it does, I think it is relevant as well as important.

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:33:30 +0000

by caradoc

noblejohn wrote:
heirodule wrote:
I haven't played Doom or Descent, and from what I'd read I would have favored Descent, but Giles totally sold me!

Blood! Guts! DOOOOOOOOOM!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I loved Giles this week - that Doom description had me pumped up here at work while I was listening. I think I may have broken my key board I was so ready for some battle. Giles should be a motivational speaker.

Great episode overall guys - you give us a lot of good information and I love the perfectly sized top 10 list - much better than 11!!

Mwahahaha! - Motivational you say :D Phase 1 of my Invader def. Overlord by Technical Death by Chainsaw Masterplan is underway! :laugh:

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

mi_de — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:33:22 +0000

by mi_de

I'm going to take up Giles statement that the games are designed 'better' these days. I find the designs simpler, easier, with less choices available. They are less prone to wild swings, runaway leaders, and such like. But I find there are few modern games that compare to the complexity and beauty of games like Civilization, Republic of Rome, Titan, Merchant of Venus, Magic Realm, Advanced Squad Leader, Empires of the Middle Ages, and American Megafauna. Modern games tend to focus more on determining a winner and loser in a short period of time, necessarily restricting players to a more numerically limited number of choices between beginning and end, like choosing a role, placing a tile in one of a half dozen possible locations, playing a set or drawing another card, or taking 10 action points to do things. I think they are seen as more 'elegant' because they are more limited and thus less prone to 'crashes'.

Not to say there are not some great designs now. What I consider modern classics are games like Here I Stand which, despite an enormous variety of what can be done in a single action, coherently holds together over a multi-hour playing time, something very hard to accomplish, or twilight Struggle which, despite 110 different cards playable in an enormous number of ways still manages to come out close with both sides capable of winning.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:27:59 +0000

by caradoc

heirodule wrote:
I haven't played Doom or Descent, and from what I'd read I would have favored Descent, but Giles totally sold me!

Blood! Guts! DOOOOOOOOOM!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yes!

A pity we can only vote once!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

noblejohn — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:25:46 +0000

by noblejohn

heirodule wrote:
I haven't played Doom or Descent, and from what I'd read I would have favored Descent, but Giles totally sold me!

Blood! Guts! DOOOOOOOOOM!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I loved Giles this week - that Doom description had me pumped up here at work while I was listening. I think I may have broken my key board I was so ready for some battle. Giles should be a motivational speaker.

Great episode overall guys - you give us a lot of good information and I love the perfectly sized top 10 list - much better than 11!!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

heirodule — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:11:28 +0000

by heirodule

If Eric's system doesn't work, maybe you could play a game, and the winner gets to pick the next game. :)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

heirodule — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:08:42 +0000

by heirodule

I haven't played Doom or Descent, and from what I'd read I would have favored Descent, but Giles totally sold me!

Blood! Guts! DOOOOOOOOOM!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

enricodandolo — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:53:12 +0000

by enricodandolo

Thanks, Eric! I'm going to print this out and run it by my game group. It makes picking a game a game unto itself, which is a good thing. And clearly it has been extensively playtested! I'm eager to give it a try.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: What was that co-op fantasy prototype game?

aslskfan — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:32:21 +0000

by aslskfan

I am ready for this one to come out myself. I saw it at Origns, but did not get a chance to play.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

aslskfan — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:30:54 +0000

by aslskfan

Have a good time!

Just know that I will be busting my butt working (hopefully), running my kds around, andplaying some games. :D

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

AmazingIntern — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:58:56 +0000

by AmazingIntern

enricodandolo wrote:
Hey, Eric. Could you give some more details about the "rules" of your group's game selection process? I could really use something to cut down the time that people stand around the tables wondering what we're going to play and who is going to play it.

No problem!

Each year, Joe (our group leader and host) takes the names of all of the "regulars", shuffles them up, and puts them in order. This is the "pick list". When we get together on a Sunday night, the next name on the list chooses the first game. If there are enough people for two tables, the person with "second pick" gets a choice. They may sit on the game chosen by "first pick" (delaying their choice of game until later in the evening), or they may choose a new game.

If "second pick" sits on the first game, the "third pick" person MUST choose something new. This avoids that "me too" cascade, and keeps things moving. This process continues until there are enough games for everyone to play something (usually two or three tables, depending on attendance), and then all of the remaining players commit to one of the games that have been chosen.

If games finish at about the same time as each other, we simply start the process over again with the next names on the list. Often, though, if one game is significantly longer than the others, the list will continue without the players from that larger group. Alternately, the quicker group will play a filler until the slower group is done. We play it by ear.

If your pick comes up and you're not there that week, you lose your turn and we move to the next name (that way you don't get ten picks in a row after you've been away for a month). However, if, say, you came to the meeting but left at 9:00, but your pick came up at 9:30, you'd get first pick next week.

This all sounds like a lot of rules, but it's worked well for our group. It avoids that "so... what do you want to play?" "I dunno... what do YOU want to play" time sink, and also gives group members who are in the minority on liking a game a chance to bring it to the table. Occasionally, you end up on a game that's not your favorite, but you know that when it's your turn and you bring out your underrated gem, you'll have a full complement of players.

Hope that all makes sense.
Eric

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

Musti — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:21:29 +0000

by Musti

The small reference to Tom going to attend Essen was most likely a joke. Otherwise, things are awfully quiet around here...

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Conquer Club Game

baymonkey — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:16:27 +0000

by baymonkey

Pulinski wrote:
After being away from Conquer Club for some time, I have started a new game up

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=find
Game No: 5742084
Password: iamback

Cheers.

Paul Kemp
Auckland, NEW ZEALAND

email: paul@bluedahlia.co.nz
web: southernsentinel.co.nz
twitter: twitter.com/pulinski

just missed it!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Conquer Club Game

baymonkey — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:08:38 +0000

by baymonkey

I am starting a new tournament from scratch for anyone that is interested. I have sent invites to all the "old" players. If I have any new ones please post or send me a message.

Nothing needed to play in the tournament just set up an account with conquerclub.com, which is free. I will send you and invite, you join, and away we go.

The tournament tentatively will consist of 8 random maps and players will earn points upon when they are knocked. Winner scores the maximum 8 while the loser scores the bottom 1.

Any questions please ask.

Greg

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

jmoody — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:22:57 +0000

by jmoody

I can only imagine that the trip will provide fodder for some new segments on your return!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

thdizzy — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:20:42 +0000

by thdizzy

Giles had me laughing on the train again. If this keeps up, people are going to think I'm just as crazy as he is!

Good work, Giles. Keep the crazy coming.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

punkzter — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:47:45 +0000

by punkzter

JoeSteadman wrote:
BrAGGART!

Haha. I look forward to seeing you at Origins Joe. I'll bring pictures to continue the bragging!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

punkzter — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:45:23 +0000

by punkzter

ALGO wrote:
Got a plan?

I will be in London from November 3rd until the 9th.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

Raiderjakk — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:12:18 +0000

by Raiderjakk

Have a great time, Brad... enjoy your travels.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

JoeSteadman — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:37 +0000

by JoeSteadman

BrAGGART!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

ALGO — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:29 +0000

by ALGO

punkzter wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I am excited to say that I will be on a world tour starting on Tuesday. This trip will include Germany (Essen), the UK, Africa, and Italy. I will be gone until the end of January. As such, I will not be able to keep up my Dice Tower contributions.

It has been a blast being able to voice my opinions on the show. I hope to start up again upon my return.

~Brad Keen

Where in the UK?

Got a plan?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: I'll Be Back in February

BugLaden — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:16:11 +0000

by BugLaden

Have a safe trip Brad. Have a great time!

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: I'll Be Back in February

punkzter — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:05:50 +0000

by punkzter

Hi Everyone,

I am excited to say that I will be on a world tour starting on Tuesday. This trip will include Germany (Essen), the UK, Africa, and Italy. I will be gone until the end of January. As such, I will not be able to keep up my Dice Tower contributions.

It has been a blast being able to voice my opinions on the show. I hope to start up again upon my return.

~Brad Keen

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Conquer Club Game

SamHealey — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:07:19 +0000

by SamHealey

baymonkey wrote:
In response to this, I would like to either finish or restart our last tournament if there is enough interest. Enough interest is more than me :D. We had a lot of folks absent or unavailable but I still have all the stats if interested or we could start from scratch.

So whats the opinion?

Thanks

Greg

I'm good with it, but I can't start games anymore, as I let my membership expire, and I haven't renewed.

But I'm good with playing in the tourny.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Conquer Club Game

baymonkey — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 02:44:51 +0000

by baymonkey

In response to this, I would like to either finish or restart our last tournament if there is enough interest. Enough interest is more than me :D. We had a lot of folks absent or unavailable but I still have all the stats if interested or we could start from scratch.

So whats the opinion?

Thanks

Greg

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

thdizzy — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:01:49 +0000

by thdizzy

It might be time for some tough love. It's better to find out now that you don't always win rather than when he's an adult. While it might not make for a pleasant gaming experience, I think it'll pay off in the long run.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

enricodandolo — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:47:32 +0000

by enricodandolo

Great show. Giles' rant on Doom vs. Descent was hilarious, and well done!

Hey, Eric. Could you give some more details about the "rules" of your group's game selection process? I could really use something to cut down the time that people stand around the tables wondering what we're going to play and who is going to play it.

Thanks.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

Mylantus — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:02:05 +0000

by Mylantus

No, it's just a line from Dracula, that never even occurred to me when I did it. Although in retrospect, I can see how it could be construed that way. For the record I like that other podcast a lot.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

brentont — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:35:34 +0000

by brentont

i get the implication that its near halloween and the vampiresk voice at around 12 min. is implying that you drink blood. but is the vampiresk voice saying "...where we dont drink...wine" a crack at another podcast?

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:17:27 +0000

by caradoc

ahh yes - thanks ;) I sat looking at my post for a good while before hitting 'submit' thinking there was something missing! :D

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode 158 is Up!

bwingrave — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:12:52 +0000

by bwingrave

Links:

Blog post:
http://tinyurl.com/yzhyy4u

Downloadable file:
http://audio.funagain.com/thedicetower/TDT158-TheDiceTower-E...

Thread: The Dice Tower:: News:: Episode 158 is Up!

caradoc — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:03:39 +0000

by caradoc

Episode 158 is up!

In this episode, Geoff crunches some numbers, Eric and Tom talk about some recently played (or NOT played) games, and Giles goes head to head with Tom about Doom and Descent. We preview a couple of games, and take a look at an older game - Lost Cities. We discuss how much money the show makes us (hint - not much), and end the show with our top ten party games!

Get those polling fingers ready - I expect to see Doom take a shotgun to Descent - you think a shiny tin breast-plate is going to stop a solid slug?

[poll=33578]

Cheers,

Giles.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

Oldman20 — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:01:06 +0000

by Oldman20

Greetings,

I almost always let my kids choose the games that we play together. The rare exception comes when I decide I want to play a bigger game like Battlelore. Then I set up the game in our dining room and then see who wants to play. Usually my two oldest end up arguing about who gets to play.

As Eugene noted, each kid does get to pick the game on their game night and everyone who is within the printed age range of the game must play it (I had to implement this rule to keep older siblings playing the younger siblings' "silly" games). Anyone too young by that criteria can play if they want to. The game of Life that started this whole thread was somewhat entertaining as I drew the athlete career with a very low salary. I decided I was a professional racquetball player. I also decided that I would be pretty irresponsible and so didn't buy a house or insure my car. But then my wife had a baby, and I had to settle down and buy a house at the next opportunity. Every player landed on a space for my golf tournament and I made a pretty penny sponsoring that event. I didn't give any money to the local college like I said I would and I just used it to pay for my sailboat. I ended the game with the least amount of money so I said that my agent ran off with all my earnings.

Fear not, those who were worrying about my kids' enjoyment of games. They play of their own free will. We play plenty of Neopets: Adventures in Neopia, Caves and Claws, and Pretty Pretty Princess. They are not forced to play my games, except, of course, when it is my night to pick, and then I drop Arkham Horror on them (not really).

Sincerely,

M. Leibig

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

philmcd — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:52:31 +0000

by philmcd

Anything.

Explain to him that you COULD let him win, but you don't want to deprive him of the real joy of knowing he beat you fair and square when he DOES win.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

feldmafx — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:19:11 +0000

by feldmafx

grafpoo wrote:
i know it's not time together, but have you checked if there are any pokemon leagues meeting near you? my son does not accept defeat well (much less just getting behind in a game) at home, but i take him off to a local pokemon league when i can, and there he does fine. he's one of the younger ones there, and is beaten 3 out of 4 games, but has never shown any sign of being a sore loser.

It's funny, but the kids are always better when playing with people they don't know well.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

grafpoo — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:14:09 +0000

by grafpoo

i know it's not time together, but have you checked if there are any pokemon leagues meeting near you? my son does not accept defeat well (much less just getting behind in a game) at home, but i take him off to a local pokemon league when i can, and there he does fine. he's one of the younger ones there, and is beaten 3 out of 4 games, but has never shown any sign of being a sore loser.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

Elyt007 — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:35:43 +0000

by Elyt007

TomVasel wrote:
ALGO wrote:

I do, however, think this got a little personal against the OP - lets try and keep it civil here, folks!

A

Yes, please.

You could take things to both extremes - making kids only ever playing games you like, or never ever trying to guide them when playing games. Extremes are usually trouble. So are those who accuse people of extremes.

Not to mention, the OP never did say he didn't play the game after it was chosen. Remember, he did let the kids choose the game!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

bwingrave — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:13:09 +0000

by bwingrave

Great post!

My step-son is 10, and he hates losing, too. He has recently joined his school's Chess club, and I'm wondering how he will do there when he plays someone with more advanced skills.

It isn't often that he plays games with us, but here are some that he has asked to play:
Bananagrams -- can be played with more than one person on a team, cooperating
Princess -- cooperative game
Can't Stop -- enjoys rolling the dice and managing risk
Survive! -- likes the little people and animal/monster pieces

Another thing I have noticed is that, more than playing games, he likes to play with certain games' pieces in an imaginative way. HeroScape Master Set: Rise of the Valkyrie, Memoir '44, and Nexus Ops are some of his favorites for this.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

feldmafx — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:22:58 +0000

by feldmafx

My son is 11yo, soon to be twelve. Last year we were going through the same issues. Even co-ops didn't work; everyone had to do what he thought was best. My wife solved it.

Before playing a game with him, we would give him ten tokens. Each time he displayed poor sportsmanship, we took one. They were taken for even the slightest show of poor conduct. He had ten chances after all. At zero, he was out of the game. Often that meant ending the game, but so be it. We eventually reduced the number of tokens as he got better. He hated this whole thing.

It took about six months for him to really get a handle on it, and he does have occasional relapses. Last month we played Revised Risk, and he claimed that everyone was picking on him, and got angry. It was over. A different game was started without him. Later, we explained that he had several key positions, and so just happened to be in everone's way.

I think the whole thing revolves around rules and consistency. Our boy understood how the tokens worked, and what the consequences were. It gave him the handle he needed to get a grip.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

ALGO — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:36:23 +0000

by ALGO

I'm not a father, but I always hated losing.

I grew out of it - I'm sure he will, too. Probably for the time being co-ops are the best bet, so at least if you lose, you lose together and can form a "mutual support group".

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

engelstein — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:02:26 +0000

by engelstein

I can only go by my own kids. My daughter was always fine, but occasionally my son would also get upset about losing. My wife and I just did the usual parenting things -- explaining that it was not acceptable, that it's just a game, and in extreme cases no TV or computer or whatever lever worked at the time. We would also lay ground rules before starting to play -- no getting upset -- which helped.

If he likes playing games with you then you can use that as a lever -- you'll only play if he agrees to keep his emotions under control. If he likes playing Pokemon with you then agree to play only if he doesn't get upset if he loses. And if he doesn't like playing games, well, then you probably shouldn't be forcing him to play anyway.

In the end it's just a maturing thing -- keep nudging him in the right direction and eventually he'll get there.

Good luck!

Geoff

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: what do you play with a 10yr old boy who hates losing?

casezz — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 03:57:15 +0000

by casezz

hi all, i play mostly with my 10 yr old boy. he's just like his father (uuhmmm...) and at this young age invests himself so heavily emotionally in games he likes that losing can end... badly. (his father discovered that games all went so much better if he didn't care who won [which is not the same as not trying...], and he figured this out as early as age say, 35...) so, we play some coop games which work well, and games where we're competing but not combating, and some times i just let him take back moves or role again or give him tokens that he can spend to have a certain number of re-roles. these things work well. we like most fantasy quest games like talisman and runebound, but also he likes kingsburgh a lot. the dice and simplicity i think combined with building acquiring powers he like a lot. i'm a nut for ccg's and i indulge his pokemon collecting, but not a lot since that's one game he has a great deal of trouble losing and i'm against the collecting without the playing. i'm working on a strategy whereby he has to lose gracefully to get more cards. makes sense to me in that concurring his challenge provides the reward that he likes the most. straight combat games like space hulk, which i'm painting now, he's reluctant to try due to the head to head direct confrontation nature of them i think. i'm thinking tails of arabian nights would work real well.

does anyone have any recommendations of games or strategies to employ as i game with me boy. our time together is the best part of my life. i want it to be as good for him as it is for his old guy. best and thanks, c

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

ALGO — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:13:04 +0000

by ALGO

jmoody wrote:

"Hey guys, how about this time we go for a hike, play Incan Gold, and then I will lay here with ice on my knees while you three hack at each other with plastic swords. Good?"

When can I come over? That sounds awesome.

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

jmoody — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:25:55 +0000

by jmoody

ALGO wrote:
The focus of games night is the players, surely? Perhaps that's a subject for a different debate entirely...
A

The focus of games night is to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women (and children!).

On gaming with children, my goal is to spend quality time together doing something we all enjoy. Sometimes that involves a good game, other times the Wii, or lightsaber fights in the basement. I am not trying to indoctrinate/train my boys, but I also want them to pick games we all can have fun playing.

Sometimes my boys want to play Life, or go fishing, or play the camel game (they put a cushion 'hump' on my back and ride me around the house). We can do these things as well (as long as my knees hold out), but that doesn't stop me from encouraging other activities!

"Hey guys, how about this time we go for a hike, play Incan Gold, and then I will lay here with ice on my knees while you three hack at each other with plastic swords. Good?"

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

ALGO — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:00:47 +0000

by ALGO

Don't concentrate on the game, concentrate on your fellow players then. A game that requires little input thought-wise means mroe social interaction can take place.

Unlike, say, teaching Mecanisburgo last night, during which very little chatting occured of non-game kinds. Fun in a way, but not ideal.

The focus of games night is the players, surely? Perhaps that's a subject for a different debate entirely...

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: When are 'High Quality' or HD Videos coming Tom?

dhittle — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:06:10 +0000

by dhittle

Thanks for the quick reply. Iwasnt really trying to suggest you need to buy new equipment but rather I know that YouTube allows you to upload video which is closer to the source quality. No change is probably necessary other than the resolution used in the video uploaded. YouTube has a nice guide on maximizing the results of your video posted in the upload section.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: When are 'High Quality' or HD Videos coming Tom?

TomVasel — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 06:32:06 +0000

by TomVasel

I don't really have a good response to this, other than to say - when I get money for a new camera. So probably not for a LONG time, sorry!

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: When are 'High Quality' or HD Videos coming Tom?

dhittle — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:31:41 +0000

by dhittle

Tom, I love the Dice Tower and you've gotten me into gaming and hooked on your videos. However, watching reviews with the blurry YouTube video just doesn't do the game being reviewed justice. Are you going to start uploading High Quality videos any time soon? I don't expect HD videos to be in the works as you would have to procure a new camera but I look forward to being able to watch great quality video for great quality reviews. Keep up the great work Tom

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: tikal or java?

Prestonisnormal — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:08:04 +0000

by Prestonisnormal

Played both. Two very different games. Tikal is the one I would get but then I am partial to area majority games.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: A pleasant surprise.....i want more!

brotherjo — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:15:05 +0000

by brotherjo

I don't typically buy games with a play time over 2 hours, but bit the bullet and bought Battlestar Galactica after Sam declared it the "pudding cake" of board games (I may be paraphrasing).

It's a group classic. Much love for the recommendation.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: tikal or java?

bippi — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:40:30 +0000

by bippi

raberjr wrote:
I need some input. I'm interested in purchasing either 'tikal' or 'java'. Both are Wolfgang Kramer games and i get the sense that they are similar and both highly regarded (btw, i have 'El Grande' and love it...an elegant and brilliant game). Anyhow, as long as I've been listening to the Dice Tower (2 1/2 years'ish'), I can't remember Tom mentioning either of these games. Does the dice tower guild have any suggestions? It looks like 'java' is out of print:(??? Has anyone played both. I'm all ears...

thanks,

raberjr

This might make the decision for you: Java is a hard one to find, and for me, definitely more than I'm willing to pay.

The 'recommendations' section of geekdo/bgg has this though:

http://www.geekdo.com/thread/420643

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: tikal or java?

raberjr — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:38:55 +0000

by raberjr

I need some input. I'm interested in purchasing either 'tikal' or 'java'. Both are Wolfgang Kramer games and i get the sense that they are similar and both highly regarded (btw, i have 'El Grande' and love it...an elegant and brilliant game). Anyhow, as long as I've been listening to the Dice Tower (2 1/2 years'ish'), I can't remember Tom mentioning either of these games. Does the dice tower guild have any suggestions? It looks like 'java' is out of print??? Has anyone played both. I'm all ears...

thanks,

raberjr

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode #156 is up

Terex — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:16:32 +0000

by Terex

I'm a bit behind, have just listened to #156 yesterday, but I just had to chime in....

Eric's #1 on the List was THE funniest thing I have ever heard on The Dice Tower in over two years of listening. By far! I felt it was a shame that the powerpuff girls "discussion" immediately afterwards over-shadowed it. I laughed long and loud in my car as Eric was re-stating his #1 pick with Tom yammering in the background for him to stop. Nicely done!!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

bippi — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:45:32 +0000

by bippi

I'm of two minds on the issue. I think it's "not awesome" to say things they like, suck. Granted...if it's something of no consequence, obviously. You'll never hear an approval of a crack-cocaine habit or vandalism out of me.

On the other side though, I can't stay awake through certain games. It just doesn't happen. I can't say I wouldn't try to find something we could both enjoy, because if their memories of games are, "I would pick a game, and dad would have a narcoleptic episode always right about after I would graduate from college while we played life"...that's not good either.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

TomVasel — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:43:30 +0000

by TomVasel

ALGO wrote:

I do, however, think this got a little personal against the OP - lets try and keep it civil here, folks!

A

Yes, please.

You could take things to both extremes - making kids only ever playing games you like, or never ever trying to guide them when playing games. Extremes are usually trouble. So are those who accuse people of extremes.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

ALGO — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:37:39 +0000

by ALGO

bippi wrote:
It's the game of Life, man. THE GAME OF LIFE.

It's arguably not a game, other than it's listed here on geekdo/boardgamegeek.

No... I think you're confused about the definition of "game".

It's not "a pastime I like".

The Game of Life is a Game. It's just not a particularly interesting one for fans of "designer" games.

I don't think that's an arguable point.

As for the subject of the thread, I have to tend to agree with the "let your kids have fun" half of the debate.

I do, however, think this got a little personal against the OP - lets try and keep it civil here, folks!

A

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: What was that co-op fantasy prototype game?

grithog — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:20:31 +0000

by grithog

Yep, that's it.
I got to play about 2 turns of this with Mr. Launius and Eric Summerer at Origins before being called away to attend to my kids (Errgh!). Great game concept, one I'm definitely watching. Mr. Launius commented that it shares some similarities to Pandemic, but it's a game, not a puzzle!

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Conquer Club Game

SamHealey — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:45:16 +0000

by SamHealey

I'm in...been a long time...but I'm ready to get schooled again.

Sam.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: Conquer Club Game

Pulinski — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:38:26 +0000

by Pulinski

After being away from Conquer Club for some time, I have started a new game up

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=find
Game No: 5742084
Password: iamback

Cheers.

Paul Kemp
Auckland, NEW ZEALAND

email: paul@bluedahlia.co.nz
web: southernsentinel.co.nz
twitter: twitter.com/pulinski

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

bippi — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 00:07:26 +0000

by bippi

It's the game of Life, man. THE GAME OF LIFE.

It's arguably not a game, other than it's listed here on geekdo/boardgamegeek.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: 6 player gateway game recommendation

Natdog — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:47:35 +0000

by Natdog

Hi David,

I am a new enthusiastic gamer myself. On a number of occasions this year, my wife and I have invited two couples over (all non-gamers) to play board games with us.

I have had great success with Hoity Toity. It has a light-hearted theme, is simple to learn, and really fun to play. It is also perfect for 6 players and doesn't take too long to play (about one hour with 6 players).

Cheers,

Nathan

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

MajorOracle — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:54:29 +0000

by MajorOracle

reapersaurus wrote:
Oldman20 wrote:
To help with the game training, .....

I thought I was doing everything right.

But then, last week, my six year old picked "The Game of Life" for family game night. I was a little disappointed, but, hey, she is six. It is the triumph of theme over game play. You get married, have kids, buy a house.

But then last night, my eight year old son, who plays Neuroshima Hex with me, who plays Battlelore and Memoir with me, he goes and picks "The Game of Life."
I don't agree with you -
I think you are going about your game-playing with your kids wrong.

I'm just some shmuck on the internet with an opinion, but your post makes it very clear that your primary intention with playing games with your kids is to groom them and train them to be able to play more complex games with you.

Life is not a contest to see how soon you can get your kids to play strategy games with you, despite what I constantly read from BGGers.

Sharing the enjoyment of boardgames with the next generation is not a selfish endeavor, solely to raise indentured playmates to provide you with strategic competetion.

You are analgous to the sports-crazy parents who vicariously revel in their kid's athletic pursuits and drive them too hard, sucking the fun out of their activity and risk burning the kid out.

Good luck with the ~~indoctrination~~ game training.

You said exactly what I wanted to say!

Let the kids have fun! Don't take it so seriously.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: ASLOK 2009

aslskfan — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:42:25 +0000

by aslskfan

One last post on ASLOK......

Congrats to Steve Pleva for winning the ASLOK 2009 Grofaz championship!

]]>

Reply: The Dice Tower:: Off Topic:: Re: Modern Art?!?!

DarrinWilliams — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:49:04 +0000

by DarrinWilliams

How about Master's Gallery. Masters Gallery
It's also called Modern Art the Card Game. I believe the Master's Gallery version has real artists rather than the fake modern artists in Modern Art.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: Looking for a train/rails based game...

bullseyetm — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:46:15 +0000

by bullseyetm

TomVasel wrote:
In about four days, I'll post a short video comparing Age of Steam, Steam, and Railways of the World.

I'd get any of those three before Chicago Express.

That's less of a recommendation and more of a renouncement of Chicago Express.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: News:: Re: Episode #157 is up

Neumannium — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:24:31 +0000

by Neumannium

Steerpike.Instance wrote:
bullseyetm wrote:
victor-rr wrote:
noblejohn wrote:
Eric,

You need to give some back to Tom - each week Tom criticizes/slams ...

I'll second noblejohn. Eric, now that you have a few episodes under your belt, you should no longer feel the need to "be nice" to Tom. I think you have established a solid standing as The Dice Tower co-host.

BTW, it is weird for Tom to be the "mean" one.
:-P

Cheers.

Thirded. Be confident in the fact that Tom is WRONG about Mr. Jack.

Fourthed !
Mr Jack is a solid game. To say it is boring because Jack the Ripper is always uncovered too early just displays that whoever is playing Jack is rubbish at the game.
It's like saying "I'm not going to play War of the Ring because the Free People keep getting destroyed"
You have to learn how to play both sides effectively.

Come on, Eric. Defend your corner.

Fifthed!

Love the game...I actually think Jack is a bit easier to play and can often win by waiting out the 8 turns without getting pinched. I rarely even try to escape out one of the exits, as it can be a dead giveaway to who you are. I've only escaped generally when the inspector has made an 'oh-oh' move and left something wide open by accident.

Dave

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: My kids' gaming training takes a step backward.

bippi — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:14:27 +0000

by bippi

Oldman20 wrote:
To be fair to him, the new version of the game allows you to buy "stock" so that whenever a certain number is spun, you get money, (as long as your number comes up more than five times, you can make money) and that is his favorite part of the game. I guess I need to get a stock market game for him.

There's a game called Owner's Choice that I snagged from Tanga a few weeks back. I think this might be right-up the alley of a light stock game.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: GMT Interview Up

TomVasel — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:49:30 +0000

by TomVasel

I'm a slacker. Sorry for taking so long to get Mark's interview with the head honcho of GMT up. But it's up now - so take a listen!

http://www.thedicetower.com/gmt2009interview.mp3

Reply: The Dice Tower:: Off Topic:: Re: Modern Art?!?!

philmcd — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:56:05 +0000

by philmcd

Get a nice clean copy of Parker Bros MASTERPIECE from Ebay. WAY cooler for an art lover.

Masterpiece

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: What was that co-op fantasy prototype game?

raviv — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:39:52 +0000

by raviv

I think you refer to "Defenders of the Realm" by Richard Launius.
It will be published by FRED, but it'll take a while.
Here's a little about it :
http://fortressat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view...

Edit: I just found somewhere "GenCon 2010" as possible release date.

Thread: The Dice Tower:: General:: What was that co-op fantasy prototype game?

Jumpseat — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:29:06 +0000

by Jumpseat

Hi, does anyone know what that co-op fantasy (rpg-light style) game that Tom was raving about a short while back; that is if it had a name yet.

I only have a vague memory of it, but as I am looking for a co-op, it would be cool to keep an eye out for its appearance.

Reply: The Dice Tower:: General:: Re: 6 player gateway game recommendation

mpgrace — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:34:20 +0000

by mpgrace

Card Games

Mamma Mia- This is very simple to explain very easy to pick up.

Kungfu fighting- This game got my wife into gaming

Loot- Simple,thematic, fun and strategy what more can I say

Games

10 Days in Asia- This is not everyone's cup of tea, but after a while people get into the swing of things but I love this as a 2 playergame..

Settlers of Catan- This is the best table talking gateway game..

Ticket to ride- Its awesome... Needs little explanation and people just build their tracks... but not much table talk unless you block people :)

Reply: The Dice Tower:: Off Topic:: Re: Modern Art?!?!

engelstein — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:28:07 +0000

by engelstein

mpgrace wrote:
Which One should I buy for my Friend who loves art??

Is the older version look better or does the newest version look better???

Well, I always preferred the older version, but I know those who like the artwork in the new version better.

I know that doesn't help, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Geoff