Titan | BoardGameGeek

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan: What are your tactics?

brunowolff — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:54:15 +0000

bucklen_uk wrote:
And there is a java implementation for solo play (and multiplayer).

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/

AI is fairly weak, but if you're starting out you'll find it challenging enough :) Graphics are for the Avalon Hill version rather than the Valley Games one.

I think the AI is a bit better in the current development version than in the last public build. If you use the humanhater AI, the AI will be a formidable opponent. You'll get trained to make some safety plays you wouldn't make against humans (assuming they weren't also out to get you), but even learning to notice these threats is valuable.

There is a very good chance that Colossus will make it into Fedora in about a month; in which case it will be on the F12 Live Games DVD.

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan: What are your tactics?

jens_hoppe — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:02:17 +0000

by jens_hoppe

MattDP wrote:
When the reprint came out there were a lot of threads like this popping up saying "where's the strategy"? The answer from a lot of us Titan old-timers is that it takes time to tease it out of the game.

Quite true. When I first started playing Titan back in ... the late 1980s or possibly 1990 or so ... the game had a dedicated and very hard-core following in Copenhagen. The local big Con was the center of an annual tournament, and in those years even getting to the final game held a lot of prestige.

As a new player I discovered the hard way that less than a dozen games of experience generally meant that one got squashed by the experienced players pretty early on. And over the years I realized that there were several levels of "being experienced": The first experienced players I had played against - the ones with, say, about a hundred games played - were formidable opponents for me. But even they had a hard time against the most experienced, hard-core group of players - here we are talking people with more than a thousand games played!

Suffice to say that I came away with the impression that Titan was a pretty deep game. :)

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan: What are your tactics?

bucklen_uk — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:48:14 +0000

by bucklen_uk

And there is a java implementation for solo play (and multiplayer).

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/

AI is fairly weak, but if you're starting out you'll find it challenging enough :) Graphics are for the Avalon Hill version rather than the Valley Games one.

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan: What are your tactics?

zaphod b — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:26:40 +0000

by zaphod b

yes, I've used that for some GMT games I can't get anyone to play. It's an option, thanks!

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan: What are your tactics?

MattDP — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:51:36 +0000

by MattDP

zaphod b wrote:
Titan muy helpful, thanks guys. It looks like a cool game and I love looking at the pieces and battle boards. Hard to find dedicated Titan players. I agree, as with any game just takes the time investment to uncover the subtleties and interesting strategies.

Were you aware the game plays very well PBEM? There's an auto-moderation system at http://acts.warhorsesim.com/

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Could the final version of the Valley Games Rules be posted?

Curtis Anderson — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:03:30 +0000

by Curtis Anderson

I'm not talking about gameplay errors. I'm talking about unclear language, typos, inconsistent capitalization, all they stuff they asked us to proofread for in the near-final rules.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Could the final version of the Valley Games Rules be posted?

Nikku — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:33:10 +0000

by Nikku

Curtis Anderson wrote:
I'd like to see if the errors have been cleaned up. It would be another good way to demonstrate that they can put out a professional-looking product.

Must ... resist ... opening ... can .... of .... worms ....

The rulebook is ok. I haven't encountered any errors, but then again, I'm no hardcore player so they might have been sneaked pas my attention.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Could the final version of the Valley Games Rules be posted?

Curtis Anderson — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:23:07 +0000

by Curtis Anderson

I'd like to see if the errors have been cleaned up. It would be another good way to demonstrate that they can put out a professional-looking product.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Could the final version of the Valley Games Rules be posted?

Nikku — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:55:23 +0000

by Nikku

Are they different? (I don't think they are ...)

Thread: Titan:: General:: Could the final version of the Valley Games Rules be posted?

Curtis Anderson — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:21:57 +0000

by Curtis Anderson

The near-final version has been up a while. How about the final version?

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

Nathnkilgore — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:01:08 +0000

by Nathnkilgore

Ah well I never play with those photographic memory types... If there are more than 10 stacks on the board I would guess I remember less than half of them.

Good point on the learning process. After that, no breaks.

IMO 5-6 player games just aren't fun unless some serious house rules are in place.

There are some variants that make sense. One of them is a buy your initial starting creatures with the exception of the highest in the lines. This can shorten a game to a managable length.
Everyone gets a set number to spend using the strike number as a base.

The smaller numbers get you more creatures to muster fast and the larger can step stacks up in quality faster. Somewhere there is a good mixture for you.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

DaviddesJ — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:31:54 +0000

by DaviddesJ

Nathnkilgore wrote:
Also, we would never, ever use open faced stacks. Half of the fun is the look of suprise on the guys face when you unfold your mega-stack.

I guess there are three stages. In stage 1, you have no idea what everyone else has, and it will take you a lot longer to learn the strategy of the game if you don't know what's in their stacks, because you're basically moving at random. In stage 2, you have enough of an idea to play somewhat competently, hidden stacks probably work ok. In stage 3, you know 90% of what your opponents have anyway, so there's no real surprise factor.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

Nathnkilgore — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:12:07 +0000

by Nathnkilgore

We speed up the game by beginning with the 2nd generation musters to start the game with.
Also, we would never, ever use open faced stacks. Half of the fun is the look of suprise on the guys face when you unfold your mega-stack.

Downside of this is with 4 players it can indeed run long. 6 player games are just not fun after the 3rd hour of freeway conjestion. Boredom can set in and there is excessive downtime while everyone has a look at the current battleboard. It is also tragic that the player weakened by one attack is usually picked to death by the remaining players in the round. There should be a two attack maximum on a single player.

One way to speed things up is a sudden death rule forcing surrender on a minimum stack if stomped over by a stack that has a 3 creature superiority and more than double the total strike number.

Another way to speed things up is a suicide roll... All the players roll once at the beginning of the round. Low die roll is forced to attack something on the board or lose his muster.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

DaviddesJ — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:14:22 +0000

by DaviddesJ

You should attack when you're going to win with a good result.

If it were easy to judge when that's the case, then the game would be much less interesting.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

jimmyckc — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:12:10 +0000

by jimmyckc

Andre,

The meaning of "experienced player be aggressive" does not truly mean attacking up front, because players will tend to spread out rather than putting a stack next to you in turn 1.

My interpretation is that you should attack a stack when:

1. If you are outnumbering the defense stack, and you remember that the defense did not have any superior creatures than your stack;

2. The defense stack is not in its native terrain, e.g lions in jungle; or

3. You can win without getting your native creatures killed, therefore you can muster an upgraded creature after the battle (like rushing a stack with 2 lions + ogres + trolls to a smaller stack in plains, and hope only the ogres will be killed before taking out the defence, then you can get a ranger afterwards.)

Normally you should have an Angel to be summonned to have it worked.

I played Colossus for over 300 times and the more I played, the more I want to attack because as your Titan grows up through experience points, it will be much harder for someone else to eliminate you by killing your Titan. Guess if you have a 12-4 Titan, even it is on his own it will take at least 2 dragons / giants to kill him.

Movement is not a real concern because when you have more stacks, sooner or later someone will be blocking your way for a ranger or you are blocking someone from getting a Griffon. By then attacking will be better than standing there and defensing.

Here's my 2 cents for your reference.

Jimmy

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

DaviddesJ — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:19:45 +0000

by DaviddesJ

FakeDutch wrote:
If this is true, how you muster a turn 1 warlock? Only 6 and doing Tower Teleportation?

Yes.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

Ludwig Seitz — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:57:56 +0000

by Ludwig Seitz

Ludwig Seitz wrote:

FakeDutch wrote:

Finally, is that really hard to come back to a Tower after you leave it? Because I find almost an obligation to stay in the Tower with your Titan and muster some warlocks/titans right upfront.

It is a valid strategy, [...]

On a second though I must correct myself. This won't work. You are relying on rolling 6-es often enough to get your army of Warlocks. Chances are that you will be forced out of the tower before you manage to achieve this, or if you manage to stay in towers, you will recruit too slow to match the other players.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

FakeDutch — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:55:49 +0000

by FakeDutch

Well, David nailed it!

I was mustering with non-moving legions. That changes A LOT the game!

Well, I will have to play it again with this big swing of the rules to see what happens then.

If this is true, how you muster a turn 1 warlock? Only 6 and doing Tower Teleportation?

Ok, got it, they go back instead of not being able to be mustered again.

Finally, for the "experienced player be aggressive" , you mean attacking upfront?

The problem I see is the map and movement hampering the aggressive play!

Thanks for the feedback!

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

brunowolff — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:03:39 +0000

by brunowolff

FakeDutch wrote:

1)If both players stay on passive mode , you can endlessly muster troops and the game would take forever

That isn't the reason the game can go on forever. The reason is that you can set up loops so that two players each with 6 legions can have a legion that moves in a loop for each possible roll. If these players cooperate to not end the game, they can keep their legions from ever meeting.

This is in contrast to the case where each player has only one legion and can't split. Under these circumstances the game will end with probability one (even if they are trying to avoid each other).

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

brunowolff — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:01:58 +0000

by brunowolff

DaviddesJ wrote:

I don't have a good solution to the problem of learning to play Titan if you don't have an experienced player to teach you. It's much easier if you have an opponent who can start attacking you and show why your passive strategy is inferior.

Playing Colossus would probably help with learning the mechanics and give one a way to test some various strategies.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

DaviddesJ — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:36:47 +0000

by DaviddesJ

FakeDutch wrote:
Finally, is that really hard to come back to a Tower after you leave it? Because I find almost an obligation to stay in the Tower with your Titan and muster some warlocks/titans right upfront.

It sounds like you're allowing a legion that doesn't move to muster in the space it's in. That's very wrong and would ruin the game and explain a lot of your bad results. You can only muster in a legion if it moves on that turn.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

DaviddesJ — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:35:07 +0000

by DaviddesJ

FakeDutch wrote:
They say that lords/demi-lords return to the stack if they are killed. This only happen it the legion they were survived right? Or this mean that I can allocate the Angel in another legion if he got killed in combat?

The lords and demilords return to the caretaker's stacks. That means they don't belong to any player or legion, but they can be mustered again.

I don't have a good solution to the problem of learning to play Titan if you don't have an experienced player to teach you. It's much easier if you have an opponent who can start attacking you and show why your passive strategy is inferior.

The one thing I do recommend is playing with open stacks (i.e., everyone can see what's in every legion) so you can make better moves without simultaneously having to develop a memory for what everyone else has.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

Ludwig Seitz — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:48:39 +0000

by Ludwig Seitz

FakeDutch wrote:

After first play we got a couple of issues:

1)If both players stay on passive mode , you can endlessly muster troops and the game would take forever

That is true. Titan is not suited to be played passively. But then, aggression is rewarded (you get Angels and stronger Titan and eventually
Titan teleportation), so reasonably aggressive players should on average win over passive ones.

FakeDutch wrote:

2) We tried to summarize movement:

From starting position:
Block: You must go that direction
Sphere/Single and Triple Arrow: You MAY go that direction.

From moving position:
Triple Arrow: You MUST go that direction
Everything else: You MAY go that direction

Missed something here?

No that works.

FakeDutch wrote:

"The map should be half the size of this one and that would be more than necessary"

Download Colossus and print out the SmallTitan map. I think that it
works pretty well and makes the board _much_ smaller (and thus the game becomes much more aggressive).

FakeDutch wrote:

After the game, I still had one question:

They say that lords/demi-lords return to the stack if they are killed. This only happen it the legion they were survived right? Or this mean that I can allocate the Angel in another legion if he got killed in combat?

Both is wrong, they just can be recruited again. All other pieces are removed from the game once they get killed.

FakeDutch wrote:

Also, how can I make my game to be more aggressive? And ultimately , take control of the board instead of he taking control of myself.

Well for one, go after the weak stacks. It is possible to hunt for those, if you have several stacks. By using your movements carefully you can block escape routes and eventually catch up and slaughter them. This limits your opponents movement options and gives you points.

If you want to play aggressive, try to recruit Rangers and the "green" monsters (Cyclops, Gorgon, Behemoth, Serpent). The Rangers can be recruited in _many_ places and the green monsters start somewhat stronger than the other two recruiting lines (Trolls, Lions). You are going to loose if the game drags on, but you can build up a pretty strong force quickly and hopefully slaughter the other players before they start getting the big monsters that can beat you.

FakeDutch wrote:

Finally, is that really hard to come back to a Tower after you leave it? Because I find almost an obligation to stay in the Tower with your Titan and muster some warlocks/titans right upfront.

It is a valid strategy, but only if you manage to keep the game short. Warlocks are a dead end in recruiting, so after a while the other players will be able to get tougher monsters and beat you. Btw. you know that you can't muster Titans, right?

Have fun with Titan!

Session: Titan:: Sessions:: The "Titan trifecta". Titan arrives in Brazil.

FakeDutch — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:56:09 +0000

by FakeDutch

Well, I got my Titan as a secret santa gift from last year and was "afraid" to play it until very recently. I read a lot about the "you should start with 2p only" and followed the advice from the Titan pros.

However, I played my first game as a 2p session with a friend of mine and it was a big learning session in the way that we had no clue what we were doing and always scratched our heads about the movement phase.

I tried some agressive moves in order to see some action and the combat DO look really cool. One rule we agreed upon gaming was "no flee, no concession, no agreement", you must fight!

Of course some dumb battles were played but at least we got the hang of it. After a while, A stack with my titan and some serpents found his Titan and that was game over for my friend.

After first play we got a couple of issues:

1)If both players stay on passive mode , you can endlessly muster troops and the game would take forever

2) We tried to summarize movement:

From starting position:
Block: You must go that direction
Sphere/Single and Triple Arrow: You MAY go that direction.

From moving position:
Triple Arrow: You MUST go that direction
Everything else: You MAY go that direction

Missed something here?

After that game, we played again, a 3p game , introducing it to two old-time ameritrashers.

We stumbled on a very peaceful game. We tried to get battle faster but apparently our rolls and movement restrictions kept blocking us from doing it. In the end, one Titan was found and they battled. Eventually, one Titan got killed by another player legion. Since there wasn't anybody else there, we just summoned our Titan stacks into a plains battleboard to one final battle (which I ended up winning with a bunch of Warlocks/Guardian/Titan)

one of the guys hated Titan saying something like:

"Hey, i just do big piles, move and eventually, I might battle"

Game three, to the end the trifecta was another 2p game from the guy that played the learning session with me and a friend of mine. I just explained the game and from time to time I went there to see how it was going:

They turned the game into an epic Struggle (which sounded really cool) as they started mustering hydras and at one point one of them had a stack with 4 colossi that ended up facing a huge ammount of serpents.

In the end, the one guy who didn't played the game came with the following statement (one started on tower 200, the other on the 400):

"The map should be half the size of this one and that would be more than necessary"

The big battle ended up in a mutual elimination and one battle was decided by a single minotaur in the slope (i guess it was the mountain board) resisting the 8 turns.

After the game, I still had one question:

They say that lords/demi-lords return to the stack if they are killed. This only happen it the legion they were survived right? Or this mean that I can allocate the Angel in another legion if he got killed in combat?

I'd like the pros around here to rebuttal the bold statements as I am really enjoying Titan and I'd like more people down here to like it as well.

Also, how can I make my game to be more aggressive? And ultimately , take control of the board instead of he taking control of myself.

Finally, is that really hard to come back to a Tower after you leave it? Because I find almost an obligation to stay in the Tower with your Titan and muster some warlocks/titans right upfront.

I did read the great article of Davis Des Jardins and all strategy stuff down here but still haven't come to a conclusion about it.

PS1: I'm not a native speaker , so forgive me if I had any typos.

Ps2: How good would this game be with a Teamwork variant? I do believe that a 4p game or 6p game working in pairs would make for an exciting game.

PS3: All those statements came from game newbies and they are not meant to be my personal view neither a criticism to the game. I do believe it has a depth beyond my comprehension and I'd like to delve into a more professional gameplay!

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

Broken Window — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:33:18 +0000

by Broken Window

I think your move to more recruiting, and less attacking, is a natural thing for new players (because they see the dangers of bad attacks). But this trend is not one that I would encourage.

While learning masterboard play is very important, on the margin you are better off stressing how to fight than learning how to recruit (even if it means a couple bad games in the beginning). As soon as you become better at tactical combat than the other players (and past some minimum threshold of competency) you will have a major advantage.

[Of course, playing like the "rest of herd" might be more enjoyable because games are more competitive. But if you like winning a lot, you should do otherwise.]

Later, learning board control will become more important than marginal increases in your tactical knowledge.. I don't think you can become good at board control unless you know how to fight first.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

Greendan — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:13:21 +0000

by Greendan

swopejd wrote:
Thanks for posting.

I think for me, quiting early would depend on whether I knew where his Titan stack was. If I did, I would then see how well this player was protecting his Titan stack.

Also, even without Titan teleport you could have sat in a tower and waited for a '6'. I can't remember if you said you only had 1 legion, but if not you could keep your Titan safer in the tower and move the other legion(s) around until you get the roll you are looking for.

Just a thought.

Other than the guy who had loads of stacks we were all down to one.

Three of us got together to play on Sunday (including the guy who had been knocked out early on Saturday. Clearly the previous experience had an effect on us as it was aaaaages until anyone attacked. We started playing at about 1pm and as I had to work on Monday I said I would have to stop at 10pm. At around 9 I was down to a couple of stacks, but had a commanding points lead. My Titan legion was attacked at just gone 10 and I was knocked out. However as I had already told the other two I was stopping at 10, and I still had a points lead I declared myself the winner, and left the other two to fight it out for second place :p
The others continued until around 2am. So our quick 3 player games ended up going on for 13 hours!

Then yesterday, while I was at work, four of them got back together and started at 11. Again, one guy went down really quickly and the winner was decided about 3 hours in when two of the players took out each others Titan in one round of combat, defaulting the victory to the fourth guy (nice one guys). They kicked of another game around 2.30ish and the first person got knocked out just as I arrived home about 6. The next two players went out in quick sucsession ending the game around 7.30.

My point is two fold:
1) The game goes faster when you are more experienced
2) Even that doesn't allow you to predict the lenght of the game. Although in big games one person always seems to get knocked out in the early rounds.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

swopejd — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:17:33 +0000

by swopejd

Thanks for posting.

I think for me, quiting early would depend on whether I knew where his Titan stack was. If I did, I would then see how well this player was protecting his Titan stack.

Also, even without Titan teleport you could have sat in a tower and waited for a '6'. I can't remember if you said you only had 1 legion, but if not you could keep your Titan safer in the tower and move the other legion(s) around until you get the roll you are looking for.

Just a thought.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

Broken Window — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 00:06:47 +0000

by Broken Window

He just mustered, and mustered and we all attacked one another until he had a clear shot at the victory. Does this happen often

Sounds like he was stuck on his side of the board, while the rest of you were clogged up on another. The benefit to the player who can muster is a lot of stacks. The benefit to the other players is point accumulation/player elimination.

Typically points and player elimination are more valuable than stacks.

Given that you are all inexperienced, the player who is mustering is less apt to make mistakes, including involving his titan in a bad battle. This is because he is spared from having to make decisions on the tactical board (which can take a lot of time to learn).

The players who attack -- who were all novices -- were probably making all kinds of mistakes such as not attacking with the right kinds of creatures, the right number of creatures, in the right terrain, or on the right part of the board. If you are constantly attacking sub-optimally, to where your lord/growth stacks can't continue to muster after the battle and thus are getting quickly crushed by other players, then you're doing more harm than good.

I would say that, while those who attacked a lot may have lost the game, they likely benefited more long term by the experience than the player who did not.

Games that you describe seem rare to me, and typically involve novice players. A player intent on mustering and not attacking will ultimately become a prize target for a player who knows how to attack.

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Help! Movement

DaviddesJ — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:05:55 +0000

by DaviddesJ

femgoth wrote:
the forced recombine can come up.

Sure. It's quite common, I'd say it happens at least once in most games.

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Help! Movement

femgoth — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:28:01 +0000

by femgoth

the forced recombine can come up. you can split your legion first, then roll a number that forces you along one path if you move, say using the blocks leading to the outer ringroad. if the space that they would land on has another of your legions, you may elect not to move that legion, which means you cannot move either of your two (recently split) legions onto that space. in this instance they must recombine.

at least, i cannot find anything in the rules that says you have to move a legion to make way for a recently split one.

New Image for Titan

Ghost Boy — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:55:51 +0000

by Ghost Boy

3 hours into the game. . .

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Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

brunowolff — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:49:19 +0000

by brunowolff

Greendan wrote:

The highest score was 230ish so no teleport was available. no archangels either.

Based on your description the player you conceded to had a commanding lead. While someone could have still gotten lucky, most likely they would have won had you played it out.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

Greendan — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:27:22 +0000

by Greendan

jkweiss2 wrote:
If you had titan teleport, you might have been able to pick of small stacks and add angels and eventually Arch-angels to your stack and rebuilt. Hard to say without knowing what was in the leaders stacks.

The highest score was 230ish so no teleport was available. no archangels either.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

jkweiss2 — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:11:05 +0000

by jkweiss2

If you had titan teleport, you might have been able to pick of small stacks and add angels and eventually Arch-angels to your stack and rebuilt. Hard to say without knowing what was in the leaders stacks.

Reply: Titan:: Sessions:: Re: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

Curtis Anderson — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:53:20 +0000

by Curtis Anderson

A lot of people on the 'Geek support the claim that winning a lot of battles is the way to win the game, but with my group, mustering a lot instead of fighting seems to work well, too. It might just be our particular Titan culture or something, but I'm not yet convinced that fighting a lot, even very selective fighting, is the way to win. I've seen plenty of games where some players just ground each other down by fighting battles and then got overwhelmed by the player who was mustering instead.

It's entirely legitimate to concede when your situation looks bleak. The argument could be made that if your opponent's Titan legion, itself, is weak, you can still win, despite your opponent having a lot of strong legions. However, the odds might be low that you'd actually catch the Titan legion with a strong legion of your own. If the game seems so hopeless that it's no fun, there's nothing wrong with conceding.

Session: Titan:: 6 Noobs bare their TItans

Greendan — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:34:19 +0000

by Greendan

Six of us gathered for the ultimate Titan Showdown. None of us had played before, 2 of us had read the rules. All of us are very experienced gamers. So how did it go?
The Rules session took about 45 mins, covering master board movement and battles. We decieded to save a bit of fiddling by allowing people to make notes of what was in their own legions, with a gentleman's agreement in place not to note anything else (ie, what was in other peoples stacks).

Well, as you know Titan is a player elimination, last man standing game. So obviously they guy who actually owns the game (not me, he bought it and left it at my house, so I read the rules. People should do this more.) was the first to get knocked out. In the first battle, after about 45 mins. He attacked my starting Angel Legion with his Titan legion and sent his Titan straight to the front. I had summoned a Troll by this point so the Angel and Troll went straight to the Titan and took it out. This small skirmish garnered me 66 points. Not enough for an Angel, but enough to get me into the lead.
I'm terrible at remembering details of long games, suffice to say about 2 hours later the second player got defeated. And about 3 hours after that I had been reduced to 1 legion containing my Titan and an Angel. Another player was in a very similar state and some one else had a slightly larger legions, whilst the 6th player was wandering around the board with about 8 stacks of good quality creatures. At this point we other three decided to concede the game. It seemed pretty hopeless, Although I was on the points lead we decided that none of us would be able to muster enough legions to threaten the leader.
Whether this was the right thing to do I'll leave to you Titan Pros to decided, We could have dragged it out a couple more hours but there didn't seem to be much point.

The game was a lot of fun, we are going to player a three player this afternoon with the guy who owns the game, and I am very much looking forward to it. My only real issue with the game yesterday was that the victor fought -ONE- battle the entire game. He just mustered, and mustered and we all attacked one another until he had a clear shot at the victory. Does this happen often? Should we have carried on and tried to bring him down? Should I have won with my points lead? (Yes, I hear you all cry!)

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Titan Tournament Rules

brunowolff — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:57:14 +0000

by brunowolff

Gryfon wrote:
Back in the day, when Titan was a Gorgonstar game, there were official tournament rules with rankings for players and such.

There are AREA ratings for Titan players at:
http://wolff.to/area/G_TTN.html

For the tournaments, I recall that each game was 4 hours. Survivors at the end had there points doubled, and then received points for the units they had left.

Four hours is a bit short. At the WBC the players seem to prefer adjudication over points based systems when we run out of time.

Battles were fought on a chess clock; I think the time allowed was ten minutes.

Anyone know what a good time for the chess clock should be?

I'd be interesting from people that played with time limits in battles. That is the first place I'd try using clocks to speed things up for the semis and finals at the WBC. But without having heard from people who have played that way, I'm reluctant to just make something up.

Thread: Titan:: Rules:: Titan Tournament Rules

Gryfon — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:39:23 +0000

by Gryfon

Back in the day, when Titan was a Gorgonstar game, there were official tournament rules with rankings for players and such.

Does anyone have the ranking rules anymore?
I recall I started as a 'Grey Leggionaire' or such, and you could become a 'Hero' if you personally took out the other Titans in one game.

For the tournaments, I recall that each game was 4 hours. Survivors at the end had there points doubled, and then received points for the units they had left.

Battles were fought on a chess clock; I think the time allowed was ten minutes.

Anyone know what a good time for the chess clock should be?

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

brunowolff — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:44:40 +0000

by brunowolff

perfalbion wrote:

I think this is a pretty severe overstatement. A 2:1 points advantage isn't required to beat a brush/jungle stack in native terrain, particularly if you've an angel you can pull in. In fact, using the points to determine whether or not to attack can be a recipe to miss good attacks. You need to factor in the specific creatures, rangestriking, and terrain.

Yeah I should have commented on that as well. Green is tough on defense. In particular it is very hard to stop a recruit as skill 4 vs skill 2 combat as slow and attacking with slower stuff is also slow. And the defensive benefit of green stuff also tends to slow things down. So I pretty much always figure on having to fight a recruit. Though sometimes you don't need to figure 3 cyclops are going to be able to get a behemoth in the jungle. But 2 to 1 is not going to be a good rule of thumb. I would look at the points with the expected recruit and add a bit (maybe 10-20 %) for the defensive bonus if attacking with mostly nonnatives and then subtract about the same if the green is mostly skill 2 and I was attacking with mostly skill 4. And then I might subtract a bit more if I had lots of rangestrikers. Though you need to not subtract as much as usual as getting the first rangestrike against skill 2 isn't that great. It will be hard to outright kill anything other than gargoyles.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

perfalbion — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:32:33 +0000

by perfalbion

JohnnyOffice wrote:
3. In a 6-player game put the 2 gargoyles with your Titan (leave the creative splits for a smaller game).

I'll echo Bruno's thoughts. This isn't automatically a good tactic. In a 6 player game it may even be a bad one since a Ranger stack recruits in many places, has high punching value, and can rack up points quickly. On a crowded board, those are all very good things. Even better if you can eke out ranger/minotaur. If you're going first, I'd split my gargoyles. If you're going late, then set your split based on other recruits.

As a corollary to that, NEVER attack a green stack in native terrain if you are not native, unless you clearly overpower it with at least twice the points. A couple of trolls against 2 gargoyles will usually lose.

I think this is a pretty severe overstatement. A 2:1 points advantage isn't required to beat a brush/jungle stack in native terrain, particularly if you've an angel you can pull in. In fact, using the points to determine whether or not to attack can be a recipe to miss good attacks. You need to factor in the specific creatures, rangestriking, and terrain.

7. Keep your stacks together for protection even if it means sacrificing a good recruit. It does you no good to run your non-Titan stack to the swamp to grow a Hydra if it leaves your 5 stack Titan open to attack.

Again, this is too broad. Only worry about this when there's the potential for a credible attack against your stack and even then consider the die roll that the attacker would need, whether there's an angel to summon, terrain, etc. Passing up a good recruit to play defense when it sets you up to score more points can be right sometimes, but may cost you too much on others. Particularly if your lords haven't been revealed yet and nobody knows where your Titan is for certain.

Sometimes, defense is required. Often, it only slows you down. Play the situation based on what you know and only play defensive when there's a good reason. Otherwise, go for the stuff that helps you score kills. Or the actual kills.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

brunowolff — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:59:49 +0000

by brunowolff

JohnnyOffice wrote:

3. In a 6-player game put the 2 gargoyles with your Titan (leave the creative splits for a smaller game). The "green" creatures get the best defensive advantages with their native terrain, grow quickly, and have the shortest recruit path to the top creature, the Serpent. As a corollary to that, NEVER attack a green stack in native terrain if you are not native, unless you clearly overpower it with at least twice the points. A couple of trolls against 2 gargoyles will usually lose.

I don't think giving that as unconditional advice is good. You really want to split your gargoyles. About the only time I wound't is going late in a 6 player game and seeing lots of Gar for Gar recruits before I got to go.

JohnnyOffice wrote:

4. Be very, very careful about when you split. Splitting when you have more than one way to go is your best bet; such as in or next to a tower or when you are next to a door. That being said, splitting off a stack of 2 tower creatures on the bottom row and leaving them behind can be an effective road block; as is a stack of Cyclops and Gorgons in a Jungle. Early in a 6-player game, don't split 4-3, but later on you can if you're well protected.

While you do want to be careful, the real issue is going to be how safe you are, not how many directions you can move. Taking repeated 1/6 chances to get screwed is going to catch up with you.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

itsmarty — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:48:34 +0000

by itsmarty

JohnnyOffice wrote:
1. If you do play with hidden legions, make sure that all the creatures in the stack are placed face-down covered by the face-up legion marker. I have seen more than a few arguments started because someone bumped a stack and knocked it over displaying all the creatures in it to everyone.

Face down is definitely the way to go, but the remedy is covered in the rules, leaving no reason for argument: the offender exposes a stack chosen by the injured party.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

JohnnyOffice — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:36:43 +0000

by JohnnyOffice

1. If you do play with hidden legions, make sure that all the creatures in the stack are placed face-down covered by the face-up legion marker. I have seen more than a few arguments started because someone bumped a stack and knocked it over displaying all the creatures in it to everyone.

2. To speed things up, I recommend moving and then recruiting immediately... maybe just putting the recruited creature on top of the stack until it is actually mustered. Nothing slows the game down more than when players move all their stacks and then have to go back through each one to figure out what they were intending to recruit. Leaving the creatures on top jogs their memories and still allows them to change the recruit it they feel like it.

3. In a 6-player game put the 2 gargoyles with your Titan (leave the creative splits for a smaller game). The "green" creatures get the best defensive advantages with their native terrain, grow quickly, and have the shortest recruit path to the top creature, the Serpent. As a corollary to that, NEVER attack a green stack in native terrain if you are not native, unless you clearly overpower it with at least twice the points. A couple of trolls against 2 gargoyles will usually lose.

4. Be very, very careful about when you split. Splitting when you have more than one way to go is your best bet; such as in or next to a tower or when you are next to a door. That being said, splitting off a stack of 2 tower creatures on the bottom row and leaving them behind can be an effective road block; as is a stack of Cyclops and Gorgons in a Jungle. Early in a 6-player game, don't split 4-3, but later on you can if you're well protected.

5. Biggest mistake that I've seen newbies make when moving on the masterboard is that once you start following the arrows you MUST continue to follow them.

6. Remember when fighting that if you intend to carry over hits you must use the highest skill factor of the creature you want to carry over hits to for ALL the dice. So if you are attacking an Angel with no hits next to a Troll with 6 hits with an Ogre, you must use the Angel's 4 skill factor to determine your hit number if you intend to carry over any hits; so only 6's will count. You'll probably only get 1 hit and not kill that Troll.

7. Keep your stacks together for protection even if it means sacrificing a good recruit. It does you no good to run your non-Titan stack to the swamp to grow a Hydra if it leaves your 5 stack Titan open to attack.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

TableStar_Thompson — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:32:56 +0000

by TableStar_Thompson

Bubslug wrote:
Another suggestion might be to download the free game referred to as Colossus but is a direct port of Titan plus some customizable features and options. Available here:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/

Play with it - try different tactics for splitting, recruiting and fighting. The computer opponents (you can choose how many and select different personality types for each) are sufficiently competent to let you become familiar enough with the game to be a respectable competitor against humans...

I've got to 4th/5th/6th this... Monkeying around with this program really clarified what happens on the battleboards for me. Really wish we could use it as a sim on game night to handle them as well!

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

brunowolff — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:55:57 +0000

by brunowolff

Greendan wrote:

2) Resolving an Engagement by agreement. What sort of agreements? Things like: "I'll eliminate my legion if you remove that Dragon from yours." and "I'll eliminate my legion if your legion over there attacks that other legion when it can" and "Let's call it quits and eliminate both my legion and yours". Am I in the right area with that?

Note that once the battle starts you can only unilaterly concede.
You can't agree to lose things that are in the legions yet (such as a reiniforcement). You can make nonbinding promises to fight a battle in such a way as to give a desired result with a high probability, but you need to play it out (allowing for treachery) and you need to risk die rolls up to the point where one of the players can concede to complete the deal.
The ruling for the WBC is that negoitated deals must specify fixed losses. If you want to make probability based deals, the die roll part of the deal is nonbinding. If after the roll one player decides to reneg, that is allowed. (Essentially you are making a nonbinding deal to make one of various binding deals based on the outcome of a die roll.)

In general you don't want to make many deals. It is usually better to flee or fight. You can also make all or nothing (nonbinding) deals where each legion is given a chance to win with whatever losses help it the most. This kind of deal can help both players (prior to the roll). But because it is nonbinding you don't have to follow through. In general these are discouraged. Mostly I have seen them when two titan legions have a very high probability of mutual elimination. (And when I have seen it, it has generally been in the battle with a die roll to see who concedes rather than in the negotiation step.)

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

brunowolff — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:43:28 +0000

by brunowolff

perfalbion wrote:

First, every agreement must result in one and only one stack being eliminated. Someone must survive the agreement, so both legions can't be eliminated.

This is incorrect. You can agree to mutual elimination. See 9.3 which makes this clear.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

brunowolff — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:41:27 +0000

by brunowolff

brauerle wrote:
perfalbion wrote:
The exception to this are angels, archangels, guardians, and warlocks. When any of those creatures die, they return to the caretaker stacks and can be recruited again.

Does the winning legion receive points for killed Lords/Demilords?

Yes. Also note that lords and demilords that are slain in a battle to not become available again until that engagement is complete. They can't be take as a reinforcement (which is different than a muster - that happens after the engagement phase) or for points. They are available for later engagements in the same engagement phase.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

brauerle — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:24:00 +0000

by brauerle

perfalbion wrote:
The exception to this are angels, archangels, guardians, and warlocks. When any of those creatures die, they return to the caretaker stacks and can be recruited again.

Does the winning legion receive points for killed Lords/Demilords?

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

perfalbion — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:31:18 +0000

by perfalbion

Greendan wrote:
1) When creatures die they get removed from the game? So the number of creatures available gradually decreases? Is it likely that by the end of the game stacks will only contain Titans & Lords?

Generally, yes - any creatures that die are permanently removed from the game. Once recruited, most creatures are "consumed" and can't ever be recruited again. The exception to this are angels, archangels, guardians, and warlocks. When any of those creatures die, they return to the caretaker stacks and can be recruited again.

2) Resolving an Engagement by agreement. What sort of agreements? Things like: "I'll eliminate my legion if you remove that Dragon from yours." and "I'll eliminate my legion if your legion over there attacks that other legion when it can" and "Let's call it quits and eliminate both my legion and yours". Am I in the right area with that?

First, every agreement must result in one and only one stack being eliminated. Someone must survive the agreement, so both legions can't be eliminated.

Second, yes the agreement can eliminate creatures from the victorious legion. However, it's important to remember that resolution by agreement gives full points for the dead legion to the victor. Half points for a defender giving up on a combat are only awarded when a defender flees prior to combat and under no other circumstances. This is different than half points awarded for death of a Titan, etc.

Third, you can negotiate whatever the hell you like as a part of the agreement, I suppose. But the terms of any agreement are completely unenforceable under the rules once the changes to the victor's stack are complete. If you agree to attack someone else, you're free not to. If you agree to buy the other player a beer, you're free not to. There are no provisions in the rules for anything but resolving the fight itself.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Greendan — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:06:45 +0000

by Greendan

Some good advice coming, I'll try to get Colossus when I get home. I do have a couple of rules questions I'd like a bit of Clarification on:

1) When creatures die they get removed from the game? So the number of creatures available gradually decreases? Is it likely that by the end of the game stacks will only contain Titans & Lords?

2) Resolving an Engagement by agreement. What sort of agreements? Things like: "I'll eliminate my legion if you remove that Dragon from yours." and "I'll eliminate my legion if your legion over there attacks that other legion when it can" and "Let's call it quits and eliminate both my legion and yours". Am I in the right area with that?

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

perfalbion — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:52:42 +0000

by perfalbion

My #1 piece of advice - have everyone recite "Titan is not won by recruiting the best stack" before their turn every turn. 'cuz it's not. It's won by recruiting the best stack you can and then making things die. If you pass up reasonable attacks to recruit that third hydra or set up for that colossus, then you're missing the point.

Titan is about focused, smart, aggression. So make attacks that you can win, and in particular don't be afraid to engage with your Titan stack when you've an angel to summon.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

perfalbion — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:49:48 +0000

by perfalbion

Bankler wrote:
1) Suggest that all players that they should attack early on with any advantage. (One extra creature, or 1-2 fewer tower creatures, nativity and a summonable angel, lots of rangestrikers). New players are prone to underestimate these advantages, which delays the game. And, in a six player game especially, it's perfectly reasonable to try for a 60% battle that will cripple you if you lose, but give you a powerful position if you win.

Not bad advice, but I'd suggest tempering this with "after you get to Rangers/Gorgons/Minotaurs." Attacking early with lions/cyclops/trolls can result in Pyrrhic victories that leave your stack horribly weak due to casualties unless you're hitting a significantly weaker stack that ended up in the wrong terrain. Lack of aggression can cost you the game. Too much aggression is just as bad, though.

2) Play with semi-open stacks (all "known" creatures face up). You'll have enough to deal with without the memory element. If you do that, don't let players examine the stacks for very long during their turn, just let them look at a stack when deciding to attack.

I'd just play with everything that isn't a lord visible until they're revealed in combat. Trying to play "Did we see that?" can actually create arguments and make memory just as important.

3) Honestly, if you have two sets, two three player games would be much better.

I'll disagree. With 6 players, someone's going to get a Titan to 400 points and the game should progress to the end quite quickly then. If you do two boards, aim to play twice so you can see the difference between a crowded and more open board.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

NojNosredna — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:30:29 +0000

by NojNosredna

I second downloading Colossus and having as many people play it as possible - at least a few times prior to play. You can play a full 4 player game against 3 AIs in 20-30 minutes. After a few times, you really get the hang of things, little things like recruiting and battle board tactics/movement become quicker and clearer.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Eric Brosius — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:03:02 +0000

by Eric Brosius

I agree with Brian. When in doubt, attack. Unlike in many multi-player wargames, attacking doesn't benefit the other players. It usually benefits either you (if you win) or the person you attack (if you lose).

New Image for Titan

skeil — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:49:41 +0000

by skeil

I used tiny dice to check HPs of units.

]]>

New Image for Titan

skeil — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:49:28 +0000

by skeil

Initial units

]]>

New Image for Titan

skeil — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:28:42 +0000

by skeil

I chose the Red army.

]]>

New Image for Titan

skeil — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:21:20 +0000

by skeil

Score board.

]]>

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Bubslug — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:18:57 +0000

by Bubslug

Another suggestion might be to download the free game referred to as Colossus but is a direct port of Titan plus some customizable features and options. Available here:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/

Play with it - try different tactics for splitting, recruiting and fighting. The computer opponents (you can choose how many and select different personality types for each) are sufficiently competent to let you become familiar enough with the game to be a respectable competitor against humans...

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Liumas — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:22:33 +0000

by Liumas

One player will be eliminated right away. A 2nd player will be eliminated not so long after that. Drive yourself, as in bring your own car, or have other means of transportation out of there. Don't drink too much until you find yourself strongly in the final four; or in the final three to be safer.

Enjoy watching other people's turns. An attention deficit riddled Eurogamer who won't enjoy this game. Someone who needs to be constantly moving like a shark or else they will die won't enjoy this game.

Teaching the basics of the game isn't that hard.

Make sure everyone is very clear on how to move on the MasterBoard. Have each player on their turn use 2 or 3 dice to place to show where each of their stacks can move to, at least for the first few turns.

Make the recruitment rules very clear, and make sure you understand them yourself completely. A lot of new players think you give up creatures when you recruit, but you don't - you take on a new creature, either a copy or an upgrade.

Make sure *you* understand the combat rules, including recruitment and summoning during combat. Practice a solo combat yourself ahead of time while strictly following the written rules; do this until you get it, maybe on a couple of different terrains. At least get a feel for the native creature abilities in each terrain - you'll have to go over these for each battle in a new terrain.

On game day, after you explain the MasterBoard and just before you setup in towers to play, do a mock battle. Choose a basic BattleBoard, say Marsh (not plains), toss in some native and non-native critters, and a Titan and an Angel, and have two other players (not you) play a mock battle. With luck, this will inspire everyone's battle lust. The game after all is a Fantasy Monster Slugathon - tell your players that it is and start playing (you'll have to briefly rehash the MasterBoard rules again at this point).

Choose starting towers, initial stack splits, and go!

Finally, take mental notes of your session so that you can regale the rest of us here with the results next week!

Have fun.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Phrim — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:22:13 +0000

by Phrim

Never split your stack before it has seven critters (exception: 2-player games where there's a ton of room). When you split, split 5-2 and not 4-3. Basically, your goal should be to make your most impressive stack even more impressive. Don't worry about the spin-off stacks, if they do develop into something useful, consider it a bonus.

Don't try to get cute with your titan for deception's sake. Sure, if you split your titan off in a two-stack, no one will know where it is, but two-stacks routinely get stomped by superior forces for (half) points.

If you're attacked by a stack with double your point value, flee. Not only is this a big time-saver, but I've seen enough lopsided battles to know that a) you probably won't kill anything and b) if you do manage to kill something it'll probably just get replaced by a recruit or an Angel (summoned or earned). Plus, you're just feeding your opponent free points.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Greendan — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:09:11 +0000

by Greendan

Bankler wrote:

4) Side games that take 20 minutes. Really.

This is something I have been thinking about. We have a Wii, so I was thinking about sticking that on if people are fed up of waiting. How much attention does the game take on other peoples turns? I guess you'll be wanting to keep an eye on what players reveal in their stacks, but it it really viable to have 'somthing else to do' during down time?

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Bankler — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:07:18 +0000

by Bankler

1a) Routinely flee, especially those 4 on 3 battles from cast off stacks that haven't grown up yet. If you've got a slightly bad 7 on 6 or some such, by all means fight it out (since you'll probably lose if you get a main stack nuked), but once its hopeless remember you can concede the remainder of the battle. Those 5-10 minutes add up.

5) During a battle let the next player roll his masterboard die and move. Unless he's in a position to hit a survivor you may be able to advance 2-3 player turns. Obviously wait for the battle to resolve if it matters.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Bankler — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:02:56 +0000

by Bankler

1) Suggest that all players that they should attack early on with any advantage. (One extra creature, or 1-2 fewer tower creatures, nativity and a summonable angel, lots of rangestrikers). New players are prone to underestimate these advantages, which delays the game. And, in a six player game especially, it's perfectly reasonable to try for a 60% battle that will cripple you if you lose, but give you a powerful position if you win.

2) Play with semi-open stacks (all "known" creatures face up). You'll have enough to deal with without the memory element. If you do that, don't let players examine the stacks for very long during their turn, just let them look at a stack when deciding to attack.

3) Honestly, if you have two sets, two three player games would be much better.

4) Side games that take 20 minutes. Really.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

StormKnight — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:39:31 +0000

by StormKnight

Ditto what Alex said. Big time. But expect to have at least one person knocked out an hour before the next person, and probably in the first hour or so of the game.

* Get a stack of different colored counters. When a player rolls their movement die and starts looking at some of their other legions, have the other players use the counters to mark the possible move locations for their other legions. For example, put a blue counter on Legion 1 and another blue counter on each space Legion 1 can move to. Put a green counter on Legion 2, and so on.

* Turn the legion markers to 45 degree angles to show when a legion has already moved.

* Figure out stack splits when its not your turn. If people are likely to be needing to know how big a stack is while you're busy fiddling with it, put a die showing the size of the stack on it when you pick it up to look at it. When it comes to your turn, be sure to finalize the split or not before you roll.

* If you run out of time, you can at least count points to decide a winner that way.

* Some reference sheets for terrain effects will probably be good to have...unless you are playing the newer edition, which (I think) includes them on the board.

Good luck!

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Superhawk2300 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:25:25 +0000

by Superhawk2300

I don't think you'll see many 5 battle turns, but that won't mean you won't see an hour turn of two.

I second having other games to play. In fact you could play regular games, not just filler games while playing Titan.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

gheintze — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:21:10 +0000

by gheintze

It's unusual to have five played battles on one turn. There may be five conflicts -- but some of them should be surrendered instead of fought.

During the down time, the other two could be playing a mock battle (as I mentioned above) to keep themselves occupied.

Geoff

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Greendan — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:18:00 +0000

by Greendan

Both good points. I have planned for a long session, hence why we are starting at 12, that way it's reasonable even it it goes on 12 hours. IF it ends quicker (ha!) we can fit in games afterwards. We've got plenty of space and games to occupy ~~my defeated foes~~ anyone who gets knocked out.

How much downtime can we expect? From reading the rules it looks like each battle could take 15 - 20 mins. Since there could be potentially five battles between each players turn, will there really be a situation where it may be a hour between turns?

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

gheintze — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:17:23 +0000

by gheintze

Greendan wrote:

So, world of BGG, I ask you, what is your Top Titan Tip To a Titan Tnewbie?

(Couldn't think of a word that began with T, sorry)

Titan Tenderfoot ?

It may be worth it to play some mock battles on the battlefields before the game. That will give you some familiarity with the movement, rangestrike, and striking rules. Carrying hits over is one thing to pay attention to.

Geoff

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

al the pal — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:01:29 +0000

by al the pal

And make sure to have some shorter two person games on hand for when the inevitable early eliminations occur. It keeps the titanless occupied and it will help the “survivors” enjoy the game more if the early dead aren’t starring at the board dejectedly.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Top Titan Tips

Superhawk2300 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:48:20 +0000

by Superhawk2300

Go in with the expectation that you will do nothing but play that the rest of the day, perhaps night. A couple players with some experience in Titan takes forever - 6 players with no experience is a near suicide situatuin time-wise,IMO. Might want to bring those inflatable rings that hemeroid patients use - you'll be sitting a LONG time.

Not saying it will not be fun, just be sure to have the proper expecation about time or you'll have plenty of time to contemplate how you should have expected this and now that you didn't it really seems like it is dragging.

Good luck!

Thread: Titan:: General:: Top Titan Tips

Greendan — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:29:39 +0000

by Greendan

So this weekend we are planning our first foray into the world of Titan. 6 very experienced gamers, but none of us have played Titan before. I have read the rules a couple of times and I'm fairly certain I follow them. I know one of the other players has also read the rules, so rules shouldn't be much of an issue.

We plan to kick of from around midday, to give us enough time should it run on.

So, world of BGG, I ask you, what is your Top Titan Tip To a Titan Tnewbie?

(Couldn't think of a word that began with T, sorry)

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Thank you Valley

chrisdem — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:05:59 +0000

by chrisdem

Ruskicowboy wrote:
Now I will have to say that they charged me for shipping on this box ($8)

Ouch! Ever heard of tape?:surprise:

Reply: Titan:: Variants:: Re: Median Strikes

chockle — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:34:06 +0000

by chockle

Well, test game is over. The comment about sucking the fun out of the game may have been spot on.
One notable thing is that there were many flees. Almost all castoffs were easily knocked off the board.
Here are the outcomes of all the battles in a 6 player game (not that many because of all the flees). Two players withdrew when they had no chance. I think the only surprise is the Claw vs. Eagle. As I recall the gorgon needed 2 hits to finish an Angel, but only got 1, so the Angel killed the gor on retal and flew off to do a lot of damage on the Titan.

========================

Hills H4 from Left
Blue Anchor:
xAngel (summoned)
Cyclops
Cyclops
xCyclops
xGorgon
xTroll
xTroll
Titan (Power 6)

Green Cauldron:
xAngel
xMinotaur
xMinotaur (mustered)
xOgre
xOgre
xOgre
xTroll

====================

H32 from Bottom
Red Gong:
Angel (summoned)
Ogre
Ogre
xOgre
xTroll
xTroll

Black Feather: (no defensive muster)
xMinotaur
xOgre
xOgre
xOgre

====================

D21 from left

Red Eagle:
Angel (summoned)
xRanger
xRanger
xUnicorn
Warbear
Warbear

Black Axes: (no defensive muster)
xAngel
xCentaur
xCentaur
xRanger
xTroll
xTroll

====================

Plains 138

Gold Claw:
Angel (summoned)
xCentaur
Cyclops
xCyclops
xGargoyle
xLion
xLion
Titan (Power 6)

Brown Antlers:
xLion
xLion
xRanger (defensive muster)
xRanger
xTroll
xTitan (Power 6)

====================

M27 from left

Red Eagle: (no available summon)
xAngel
xAngel
xUnicorn
Unicorn
xWarbear
xWarbear

Black Eye: (no defensive muster)
xCyclops
xGorgon
xGorgon
xGorgon
xGorgon
xGuardian
xGuardian

====================

M13 from the left

Gold Claw:
xAngel
xAngel
xAngel (summoned)
Cyclops
xCyclops
xGargoyle
xGorgon
xTitan (Power 9)

Red Eagle: (no defensive muster)
xAngel
xAngel
xUnicorn
xUnicorn

====================

m1000 from the bottom

Red Cross: (no room to summon)
xColossus
xGiant
xGiant
Unicorn
xUnicorn
xWarlock
Titan (Power 11)

Black Die: (no defensive muster)
xBehemoth
xSerpent
xSerpent
xSerpent
xSerpent
xSerpent
xTitan (Power 8)

============================

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan game coming up... to split the gargs or not.. that is the question!

thedude05 — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:57:24 +0000

by thedude05

hagin wrote:
I certainly advocate splitting gargoyles in all but a 6 player game (where if everyone does it there are only 9 left for the 12 out there). And if you don't I'd put them in the Angel not the Titan stack.

Why? Because a bunch of brush creatures in your titan stack doesn't help as much as you think it does. Your titan isn't worried about non-brush stacks (at least not until later). Its worried about brush stacks. And guess what? Being a brush stack doesn't help you much against another brush stack.

You also only want to attack sparingly with your titan stack unless you have no choice or the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour. The Titan is the King and the Angel is the Queen of this particular Chess game (early on anyway).

As for splitting your gargoyles, you're only one brush away from having the same development as not splitting and you have twice as many brush stacks. Plus your limiting factor in serpent building will be reaching jungles not brush so your time to get serpents is barely diminished by having to build a second gargoyle.

Splitting your gargoyles also helps ensure you don't lose your brush potential to a mishap or a tough fight.

Going for serpents in your titan stack is such a gamble cos there'll be 10+ other stacks out there doing the same thing and you're really hoping you get lucier than all of them.

And whoever said serpents are tougher than hydrae. Thats true in a strictly dice/skill basis but the rangestrike more than makes up for that. Outside the native terrain of both stacks (hills, mountains, marsh, tundra) I'd say the hydra range strike ability greatly diminishes the defensive advantage the serpents may have and if its the hydrae defending, going from needing 5s to hit to needing 6s is a massive difference. A serpent losing 1 skill needs on average 3.33 hits to kill a hydra. A hydra losing 1 skill needs on average 3.6 hits to kill a serpent (compared to 1.67 and 2.16 normally). And thats assuming no rangestrikes.

Anyway back to the splitting of gargoyles... another advantage is that it makes it harder for people to guess where your Titan is.

This is a really good point, and I hadn't thought of this prior. But I have been playing alot of titan on acts of late an seeing this more and more. Its a race at this point when your in this position.

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Some Tactical notes

thedude05 — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:43:58 +0000

by thedude05

DaviddesJ wrote:
webbbarton wrote:
Ideally, you want to only attack when victory is virtually assured.

This attitude can make it way too easy for your opponents to push you around.

If you're playing against opponents who don't play as well as you, you might want to be conservative and avoid any avoidable risks. But against players who are equal or better, you're going to have to take appropriate risks. The hard part is figuring out which risks are appropriate.

This is a good point. I am often playing against far more skilled players on Acts and I get crushed often. But its hard to keep track of other people's stuff. So I end up being defensive and roaming looking to muster etc. Its tough to know when you have an advantage and how to press it.

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan game coming up... to split the gargs or not.. that is the question!

BFoy — Wed, 27 May 2009 17:10:32 +0000

by BFoy

brunowolff wrote:
Shivan650 wrote:

If I'm lucky enough to get both a cyc and a lion/troll then I will often split 4/3 if it is reasonably safe (Lord, lion,2 gargs) (cyc, 2 cents)

If you are going to split 4/3 you should split Lord Lio Cyc and 2 Gar 2 Cen. Otherwise you are costing your best legion a step in recruiting. You are also a little more likely to end up with space problems in your best legion, which might force choosing to shut off a recruiting path.

Better would be splitting when you are 5 or 6 high (seen alot in 2 player games).

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan game coming up... to split the gargs or not.. that is the question!

DaviddesJ — Wed, 27 May 2009 17:04:28 +0000

by DaviddesJ

brunowolff wrote:
I think the main reason to split gargoyles is that gargoyles complement ogres and centaurs better than ogres and centaurs do each other. It makes it safer to split because you will generally recruit in more locations.

That is true, but Dan's point that two gargoyles by themselves are likely to be worth more than two centaurs or two ogres is also valid.

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan game coming up... to split the gargs or not.. that is the question!

brunowolff — Wed, 27 May 2009 16:50:24 +0000

by brunowolff

Shivan650 wrote:

The basic reasoning is this: Two gargs will grow a cyc and can then be split off of the stack to try and grow on their own. While the same is also true of ogres and cents, you end up forgoing the possibility of getting warbears and minos that way.

I think the main reason to split gargoyles is that gargoyles complement ogres and centaurs better than ogres and centaurs do each other. It makes it safer to split because you will generally recruit in more locations.

Shivan650 wrote:

If I'm lucky enough to get both a cyc and a lion/troll then I will often split 4/3 if it is reasonably safe (Lord, lion,2 gargs) (cyc, 2 cents)

If you are going to split 4/3 you should split Lord Lio Cyc and 2 Gar 2 Cen. Otherwise you are costing your best legion a step in recruiting. You are also a little more likely to end up with space problems in your best legion, which might force choosing to shut off a recruiting path.

Reply: Titan:: Strategy:: Re: Titan game coming up... to split the gargs or not.. that is the question!

Shivan650 — Tue, 26 May 2009 23:13:36 +0000

by Shivan650

The ONLY time I keep my gargs together is in a 6 player game. And then only becaue there aren't enough gargoyles for everyone to split and recruit.

The basic reasoning is this: Two gargs will grow a cyc and can then be split off of the stack to try and grow on their own. While the same is also true of ogres and cents, you end up forgoing the possibility of getting warbears and minos that way.

I will usually try to grow a stack up to the point where it has built up a second level creature (lion, troll, cyc) then split off the two smaller creatures once I hit 7 in the stack. If I'm lucky enough to get both a cyc and a lion/troll then I will often split 4/3 if it is reasonably safe (Lord, lion,2 gargs) (cyc, 2 cents)

I find that having a little brush in a stack definetly helps with recruiting and in the stack rebuilding quickly after a split. It also greatly reduces the chances of someone hitting you in brush/jungle with non-natives.

One of my favorite strategies is to build factories: A combined brush/ranger stack. Split off a cyc (or two gargs) with a ranger and stick on the outer ring. You'll find it grows into a rather nasty stack very quickly and it can then twin off to create a second stack. While they aren't too useful in the end game. In the middle game they are great for garnering points or controlling territory.

Reply: Titan:: Variants:: Re: Assessment of Hong Kong variant?

Shivan650 — Tue, 26 May 2009 21:25:14 +0000

by Shivan650

I think that having 7*4 angels would be kinda overpowering.

I'd suggest just being able to promote one exiting angel to 7*4 when you hit 300 points and then promote again at 600 points (another angel to 7*4 or that angel to 8*4 if it was still alive)

Kind of like the Titan gaining power.

I'm sure it would speed the end game, but because it would only apply to that one angel, a player would likely be fairly cautious in commiting it.

Another variation I was considering was to make both the angels and Titan x*4. When you hit 100 intervals points you would promote any indivdual lord. Most people would probably pick the Titan, but being able to summon in a 8*4 angel would be pretty interesting.

If a promoted angel died in battle you would lose those extra points.

Reply: Titan:: Variants:: Re: Assessment of Hong Kong variant?

DaviddesJ — Fri, 22 May 2009 18:26:16 +0000

by DaviddesJ

It seems like the starting position would magnify the effects of early luck. The 7*4 angels would certainly make getting to 300 points a big deal. Usually the person who gets to 300 points is winning anyway, this would just make it more decisive.

Thread: Titan:: Variants:: Assessment of Hong Kong variant?

kvezner — Fri, 22 May 2009 17:28:35 +0000

by kvezner

Has anyone out there ever played the Hong Kong variant? If so, how do you like it?

This variant has three rules changes:

1) you start with one stack, consisting of a Titan, gargoyle, centaur and ogre. No splitting on the first turn. Note that you have no angel to start with, you have to earn it in battle.

2) You get double points for every creature killed by your Titan. Killing means your Titan strikes the actual killing blow.

3) Your angels gain one Power for every full 300 points that you have, so at 300-599 points your Angels are 7-4, at 600-899 they are 8-4, etc.

The variant is supposed to speed up game play while preserving full mustering. The starting stack change is supposed to encourage more early-game splitting and mustering because you don't have to worry about an attacker summoning an angel. If two stacks are about the same size, it makes little sense to attack.

The last two rules encourage aggression even further, as well as riskier conduct with your titan.

I playtested the variant in a three-player game last night. It ended too soon for me to have a solid opinion on it, but it seems to 1) encourage mustering over attacks in the early game and 2) speed up the endgame. Not sure how it affects the mid-game, we just entered mid-game when the game ended. My guess is that it leads to more battles and a quick move to endgame. The game ended because I was quite aggressive at mid-game and attacked what turned out to be my last opponent's titan legion, not because of the variant.

One of my opponents who had some Titan experience felt that the variant may slow down a game with fewer players. He got a bad deal because he attacked a weaker legion early on and threw his only centaur out into the battle. The centaur died and he lost that recruitment line, never got his titan back to a tower for another. My lesson from that was that you wait to expand your recruiting base before attacking, again there's less incentive to attack in the early game.

Because the game ended early, we couldn't really evaulate the effects of the last two rules. I think the double points for titan kills would come out more when your titan is stronger, though my opponent's titan did kill something and we saw how those extra points help. Likewise nobody reached 300 points to boost their angels, except maybe me after the last battle but the game was over at that point.

Bottom line, the game ended early at around one hour 45 minutes with only three battles having been fought. My last opponent and I each had about nine legions on the board, with recruitment up to griffons and behemoths and maybe one turn away from warbears. That's pretty good development for that timeline.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: Thank you Valley

Ruskicowboy — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:33:14 +0000

by Ruskicowboy

I also had a split box, and after filling out a help ticket (don't do the contact email), I received a response a couple of days later, and the replacement box arrived in about 2 weeks. Now I will have to say that they charged me for shipping on this box ($8) which was kind of annoying since others got their replacements for free. I guess they were losing too much money on the shipping for all of the stuff they are replacing?

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ - mutiplayer help

Curtis Anderson — Mon, 18 May 2009 08:41:13 +0000

by Curtis Anderson

Make sure you all have the same version of the program, too.

Reply: Titan:: General:: Re: http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ - mutiplayer help

YosT — Mon, 18 May 2009 08:28:01 +0000

by YosT

I've tried it on my LAN and it seems to work. If you cannot connect at all it seems most likely that your firewall/port forwarding setting are incorrect.
A little more information on what you have tried would be helpful.

Official docs on networked colossus: http://colossus.sourceforge.net/docs/network.html

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Who gets points when both legions are eliminated?

ralpher — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:34:22 +0000

by ralpher

Cool, thanks.

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Who gets points when both legions are eliminated?

drmabuse00 — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:27:02 +0000

by drmabuse00

"Rule 16.1 Any Engagement that results in mutual elimination scores nothing for either player (exception see 19.3)"

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Who gets points when both legions are eliminated?

LimboLance — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:27:02 +0000

by LimboLance

Under original rule 16.1 - If both are eliminated - no one scores any points (exception listed at 19.3 - which is where a Titan is eliminated). Hope that helps!

Man, no one had answered but by the time I posted this - WHAM!

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Who gets points when both legions are eliminated?

chockle — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:26:54 +0000

by chockle

The Law of Titan wrote:
16.1 Any Engagement that results in mutual elimination scores nothing for either player.

It's a bit more complicated if there is a Titan in one of the legions (See 19.4).

Reply: Titan:: Rules:: Re: Who gets points when both legions are eliminated?

stephenhope — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:24:13 +0000

by stephenhope

Neither get points. I'd check the rulebook again as I'm pretty sure it's in there.

The one exception is in a mutual elimination of legions where one Titan is killed. In that case I believe the other player still gets half points for the Titan owner's remaining legions.

Thread: Titan:: Rules:: Who gets points when both legions are eliminated?

ralpher — Thu, 14 May 2009 20:09:42 +0000

by ralpher

We played last night on an AH edition Titan. the first battle both legions were killed off. The rules didn't give an explanation of who was considered the winner or loser in such an event. What happens? Both get points? We said neither got points.