Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition | BoardGameGeek

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Rokin — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:36:25 +0000

We play most expansion rules and find with the imperial stratagy card
most 3-4 player games last 3-4 hours consistantly.
Without the imperial stratagy card:snore:

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Marx09 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:30:12 +0000

by Marx09

My first game with 5 players (all of us new) took 10 hours, with none of the optional rules.

Our last game which also included none of the optional rules (except for swapping out the default Imperial Strategy for the replacement Imperial Strat from SE) had 4 players and clocked in at around 6 hours. For me, that's a pretty reasonable chunk of time!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

metelo — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:20:17 +0000

by metelo

Play with pre-set maps, imperial II and open public objectives to 9 points..

5 players = 3 1/2 h to 4h

Played once with 8 (6 newbies) it took 14H, all hidden objectives flipping one per turn) and mapped created as part of the game. Ever since never done that again. (this was before I started keeping track of my games on the geek).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Aarontu — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:11:39 +0000

by Aarontu

Playing with 1 point Imperial and playing to 8 points, it took about 1 hour per player.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

KlydeFrog — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:34:49 +0000

by KlydeFrog

For reference, we have at least a couple of players (maybe including myself) that would be considered "AP prone". For example, games of El Grande take 2 hours easily and even sometimes 3 if we don't keep people moving well. We try to keep everyone moving along (using a timer in some games though we haven't figured a good place to use it in TI3).

Anyways, as for TI3 .. our first game took ~14 hours. It was the base game with Age of Empires but no other variants. Five of six players were new.

Since then all games (for my group) seem to fall in around 8-9 hours. I hear that's ridiculous but that's how it goes for us. I'd love to try one of the 4-6 hours games people talk about here (I'd probably get to play more often then :) ).

FYI, most of these games have been with 5 or 6 and we always have a couple people with the job of 'cracking the whip' (eg, letting folks know if they're taking a long turn). We also always use Age of Empire and we've played with original roles a couple of times but lately always with the those from the expansion. I think we play to 9 victory points.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

sigmazero13 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:00:13 +0000

by sigmazero13

If you have the expansion, I've found that Artifacts does a lot to speed up the game, as it makes more points available. (And Artifact points don't count against the usual "1 objective per turn" limit, either).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Santiago — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:33:28 +0000

by Santiago

We always play with three or four. With three we've finished a game in as few as four hours, though typically a bit longer. With four players, it's more like six to seven hours. That includes setup, Age of Empire variant, and pretty much no optional parts, as we feel most of them just slow things down. We use Shattered Empire techs and races, a varying set of roles, and original objectives.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Floating World — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:02:01 +0000

by Floating World

Deliverator wrote:
We also play with Imperial II and Age of Empires along with preset maps. I usually assume 1 1/2 hours per player assuming everyone already knows how to play and that will usually include a short break for food. With new players you can probably add a good 30-45 minutes to get them up to speed and get early questions out of the way. If you play with a full compliment of six (or even eight with the expansion), yeah, it is going to take a long time :) A four player match can easily be done in a reasonable amount of time (read: an extended afternoon).

This is what I wanted to know. Everybody whines "it takes long time to play, blah, blah, blah", but nobody says with how many players, I just guessed it was 6 and above.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Floating World — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:00:02 +0000

by Floating World

ejcarter wrote:
Did that include setup time?

Yes.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

Deliverator — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:51:06 +0000

by Deliverator

We also play with Imperial II and Age of Empires along with preset maps. I usually assume 1 1/2 hours per player assuming everyone already knows how to play and that will usually include a short break for food. With new players you can probably add a good 30-45 minutes to get them up to speed and get early questions out of the way. If you play with a full compliment of six (or even eight with the expansion), yeah, it is going to take a long time :) A four player match can easily be done in a reasonable amount of time (read: an extended afternoon).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

malloc — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:47:34 +0000

by malloc

I play preset maps and all the SE rules and strategy Tiles.
play time is 1 hr per player + 30 min for every newbie.

If you are setting up a map add an hour. People who are playing this for 17 hours are doing something wrong or are playing with all newbies.

If you want to learn the game find a newbie game over at www.ti3wiki.org and get the rules down online before you try it face to face.

-M

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3 Playing Time

ejcarter — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:43:26 +0000

by ejcarter

Did that include setup time?

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: TI3 Playing Time

Floating World — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:33:52 +0000

by Floating World

I recently found out about the D6 GEneration and whenever they mention long playing time, they give TI3 as an example, even saying that it ""literarly took 17 hours". I have always been curiouswheteher a game of TI3 is long with 3 players, 4 players or with 6 - 8 players.
I know that many players are wondering about the awerage playing time and I wanted to know what are your experiences, what variants you used and how experienced were the players.

Mine are:
3 player game - 4 hours, (all players had played only one game before)
4 player game 5 hours (2 players had played two games before, 1 had played one game, and the fourth was a newbie)

Both with Imperial II and Age of Empires variant, no expansion.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Shock Troops: Mecatol Rex Secret Objective

sigmazero13 — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:59:15 +0000

by sigmazero13

halbower wrote:
Perfectly legal but difficult to pull off. By the time someone has their own spacedock on Mecatol Rex, every other player should have there 3 spacedocks on the board.

Unless you are going for a Space Dock On Mecatal objective - especially if you hope to try and CAPTURE one. That way you don't have to scrap it.

Granted, doing so almost throws up a flag about your intent, but if you have the means to pull it off, I can see this happening. I think it's more "rare" to see because capturing a Space Dock isn't all that common anyway (even with Agents, as they are usually reserved in the back for Sabotage)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Shock Troops: Mecatol Rex Secret Objective

halbower — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:47:16 +0000

by halbower

Perfectly legal but difficult to pull off. By the time someone has their own spacedock on Mecatol Rex, every other player should have there 3 spacedocks on the board.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Shock Troops: Mecatol Rex Secret Objective

sigmazero13 — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:38:31 +0000

by sigmazero13

It definitely counts. The Space Dock is still "new", which means you can't build there, but the objective doesn't require it to have been there at least one round - it only requires that a space dock is present. Capturing it like this is no different than having captured Mecatol and then building it next round; the Space Dock is "new" in both cases, but can still be used to claim the objective.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Shock Troops: Mecatol Rex Secret Objective

azuredarkness — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:32:49 +0000

by azuredarkness

I don't see a single reason for not being able to claim the objective.
It requires control of Mecatol Rex, your Space Dock there, and six Ground Forces.
Once the Shock Troops have done their job, the Space dock is yours for every intent and purpose.

File: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: "Historical Background"

chiquichaque — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:04:48 +0000

by chiquichaque

"Historical Background" for Board Game: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition ]]>

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Shock Troops: Mecatol Rex Secret Objective

nikezz — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:11:53 +0000

by nikezz

If you take over Mecatol Rex with an enemy Space Dock with your Shock Troops, can you complete the Mecatol Rex Secret Objectives that require Space Dock? Assuming you fulfill the other components as well i.e. 6 ground troops

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: 2nd time playing, and the sky was full of ships.

Dre2Dee2 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:11:45 +0000

by Dre2Dee2

Haha, awesome report! :laugh:

Keep more coming... it makes me anxious to read your next game. ;)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

halbower — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:18:17 +0000

by halbower

sigmazero13 wrote:

Another thing to do to encourage combat is to make sure resources are more scarce.

Totally agree. I like to stack the deck so there are fewer resources. This makes the game more interesting but does not necessarily lead to more combat.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

ryolacap — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:44:44 +0000

by ryolacap

Ok so I contemplated this to some extent and this is what I came up with as variants:

A. TI3: Knights of the Old Republic, Teams that can only attack each other to accomplish objectives, choice in seating causes you to ally with the person to you left (or right, your choice) with seating position 1,3,5,7. You can both play to 20 and try to win as a team, or play to 10 and win individually.

B. TI3: Total War, any planet conquered without a planetary bombardment is given to the new owner unexhausted.

C. TI3: Conquest of the Empire, when strategy cards are picked player initiatives 1 & 3 are team A and 2 & 4 are team B, teammates cannot attack one another for any reason that turn. Teams change every strategy phase.

D. TI3: Camelot, owner of Metacol Rex, all planets production are doubled and represented by trade goods (Tax collection in the Empire).

E. TI3: Race to War, any battle won is awarded by a victory token, 4 tokens gains 1 VP

I think all of these would increase combat as you vie for more resources. How could you make these better, perhaps VP’s for controlling the most resources? Please discuss.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

sigmazero13 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:35:45 +0000

by sigmazero13

Another thing to do to encourage combat is to make sure resources are more scarce. This depends on how many players you have, but if you "stack the deck" of tiles by taking out more planet tiles and adding more empty/non-planet tiles, there will be fewer resources, and with fewer resources, you're likely to see more combat over those planets that ARE there.

This isn't as direct as Christopher's idea above (which I haven't tried, so I can't say either way how well it works, unfortunately), but it's just another thing to consider.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Funsucking

Docdemers — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:08:42 +0000

by Docdemers

sigmazero13 wrote:
Perhaps the best way to "show" them would be to focus on the victory points (while keeping enough ships around to keep from getting slaughtered) and watch as they wonder why they keep losing despite attacking all the time.

That's what I'm already doing but they seem to just don't see it. Until now tough. I just don't know why they can see that, because two of my friends and me, we are always winning in rotation (after 7 play with 5 or 6 players!). They think that we are just shitty lucky and chicken! Funny because they are good players at others games like "A game of thrones". :what:

Honestly, yes it bothers me. But if I can play TI3 then well... I'm happy. Sometimes I think about trying to find a game club and try a game with experienced players. But I'm a bit afraid of loosing the conviviality of my friends.

Anyway, just to say that there is all kind of players around. :)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

Deliverator — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:16:34 +0000

by Deliverator

I find that using the Age of Empires variant helps. Having all the objectives out from the start lets people set a game plan, meaning less turtling early. Also, knowing how you want to approach the objectives from the start means you can be more aggressive in pursuing them and will need to be more aggressive in preventing others from getting them.

I like Warfare II from SE. +1 move gives you better striking range and +1 on all combat rolls for that fleet gives you pretty good combat advantage, especially earlier in the game. Using artifacts helps a bit as well. Having a couple VPs that can change hands sometimes results in fierce competition for them.

While I haven't used it yet, the star by star variant for map creation seems like it might help as well. Having the ability to essentially put your home system anywhere may result in placements that will naturally lead to more aggression.

Other than that the game isn't necessarily meant to have a ton of combat. More often than not fleets are used defensively and as scare tactics. They are tools to be used however you see fit and may or may not involve actual combat.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

halbower — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:36:23 +0000

by halbower

The reason why there is no combat (until the end) is: there is no need for combat. There are few combat objectives. And those objectives which are combat oriented, may not come up in any given game. And when they do come up, they are a one time shot.

For example: I won a space battle against 3 enemy ships. Once you have completed this objective, there is no incentive to fight your opponents. Why make your neighbors mad? Also, this objective requires your opponent to have 3 ships. Thus, you are not encouraged to fight him when he only has 1 or 2 ships.

The only way I've come up with to solve this problem (and I've given it much thought!) is the Combat Objective system (4 space battles = 1 VP). Every player will want to start 4 battles. And some races (or players) will be able to attain 8 space battle victories. Thus in a 6 player game, you should expect 24 space battles at a minimum. Players will be encouraged to start racking up those space battle wins immediately so you should see more combat in the early and mid game.

Other people here on BGG will state that they encourage fighting by making certain objectives always available. Some examples would be Merciless, Conqueror, Supremacy and Domination. Having these objectives may promote more combat but they have one huge side effect: player elimination. I noticed in your original post that you don't like that aspect--neither do I. Furthermore, having these objectives being always available does not neccessarily add more combat. Supremacy and Domination are almost impossible to pull off. Merciless requires you to target a neighbor (and it's likely you will score it using an Action card rather than with combat).

Given all this, I came up with the Combat Objective system. Now this can be tweaked to your gaming group's tastes. For example, you could make it: 3 space combats wins= 1 VP.

But other than using this system, I have not been able to think of any other way to encourage combat. Many of the ideas people come up to solve this problem actually have the opposite effect. That is, despite their goal of encouraging combat, they are encouraging turtling. Keep this in mind when you think up a solution to this problem.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

ryolacap — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:57:46 +0000

by ryolacap

Yes I play with SE expansion, I was thinking about the teams idea. Mabe I am not seeing a way to protect your backside, or maybe the guys I play with are super vindictive. But in my group you better not jump out and be the the 'war' guy because you will be crushed. (even though fighting is on everybody's mind. Maybe if I did just start attacking the results would be differnt than I imagine.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

JonJacob — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:55:08 +0000

by JonJacob

The Shattered Empire expansion does add more combat focused objectives as mentioned above as well as adding more races, hexes, additional rules if desired, and most importantly new strategy cards to select (which some people say are necessary). It is worth owning.

It is worth noting that TI3 is not a combat game... not entirely, it is just a system inside of which combat can be a road to victory. Two games ago I saw a buddy win with only two combats all game (only one including him)... minor ones at that, but last game my Brother won and it was a combat heavy game (more combat then I could keep track of)... part of the beauty of owning the expansion is that the objectives can heavily change the play style of TI3 from game to game and even if the public objectives look innocuous enough, as far as fighting is concerned, who knows what sinister and violent secret objectives may be hidden.

Still, I doubt you'll find a smooth way to make it combat heavy off the get-go... people almost always want to build a bit first... although with the Embers of Muaat (sp?) you start with war suns and I've seen people go for the jugular on the first turn with that race.

There is also the simulated early turns variant (either in the expansion or on-line, can't remember which) which lets people claim a couple other territories before the game begins and build a couple of times... this will make people more aggressive because they will have a larger starting force. It also gets the tedium out of the early rounds, that said our group doesn't like it, but many do so check that out too. TI3 is very versatile and has tons of optional rules, house ruled game groups, conventions with alternate hexes and board layouts... it's quite robust so as long as your familiar with the game adding these extra rules (like the one VP for every four won battles mentioned above) shouldn't break it in anyway.

Hope that helps.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

halbower — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:25:47 +0000

by halbower

We play with a house rule: you get 1VP for every 4 space battles you win.

This encourages everyone to get into 4 fights and encourages a few races that are more aggressive to get into 8 fights. It also discourages huge fleet build ups. There are more skirmishes.

Also, you should play with Shattered Empire. Your original post doesn't state whether you do or not, but if you don't: give it a whirl. If you are playing with Shattered Empire, try adding the above house rule.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Galacic cold war

BeanThere — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:21:31 +0000

by BeanThere

There are a few options that I can think of. First I never play without Shattered Empire, ever since I first used it. The expansion changes the game to be a little bit more confrontational with the secret objectives and what not.

Another option could be playing teams. Two teams of three or two teams of two. That way you don't have the problem of others attacking your back.

What I usually do, or try to do, is ally with one of the players near me, that way I don't have to worry(as much) about being attacked from that side, then concentrate my attacks on my other neighbor. Of course your ally could always betray you at any time.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts. I can't stand "cold war" style game play. Even if I know I'll lose for doing it, I'll attack just to break the tedium.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Galacic cold war

ryolacap — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:01:29 +0000

by ryolacap

Seems like every time I play, there is no combat until the end. Everyone is alway afaid to attack the person on the right because of the potential threat to the left. What are ways to create more combat but in a way as to not make it a total destruction of ones race. Any suggesions... maybe a way to set up the map or a variant like fighter capacity for PDS units...

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

islander — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:19:27 +0000

by islander

You are very welcome :cool:

Do you remember which Secret Objective you had? That's one bit of info I did not gather from everybody

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Funsucking

sigmazero13 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:12:49 +0000

by sigmazero13

In that situation, it really does sound like they aren't getting the point of the game. Yeah, there's a lot of bits, but you don't need to use them all every game. And the "Because, it's one of the possibilities" isn't quite accurate - Winning via military only is nigh impossible. Sometimes attacking and fighting is needed to achieve certain goals, but I have never seen anyone win by focusing exclusively on attack, attack, attack.

Perhaps the best way to "show" them would be to focus on the victory points (while keeping enough ships around to keep from getting slaughtered) and watch as they wonder why they keep losing despite attacking all the time.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Funsucking

Docdemers — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:40:36 +0000

by Docdemers

Hi,
a part of my group always want to attack even if there is no victory point to gain. Every time I try to explain the victory points system, they always say:

- Why all the bits if we are not to use them then?
- Because, it's one of the possibilities!
- But if they have put in so many pieces, it's because we are suposed to use them right?
- Huh yes, but not all the time. You must focus on the objectives.
- Yes, But we still must fight no?
- :shake:

Sometime they even built HUGE fleets even if there is no treat at all and nothing to gain yet from attacking. Why? Just because the pieces are there to be used. :soblue:

I think that sometimes there is nothing to understand from some player's reaction or way to play.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

tundastorm — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 06:31:22 +0000

by tundastorm

From the experience of that game, A Fourteener is something that has been experienced and i was proud of being a part of. As for doing it again might take some persuasion but i won't truly rule it out. My Objectives were messed up way in the beginning but i tried to trek along and ultimately messed up by leaving my home world unguarded on the last turn, leaving me unable to conquer any more victory points. Thanks islander for the game.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Two rules questions:

sigmazero13 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:54:30 +0000

by sigmazero13

Marx09 wrote:
I think for your second rule, it's a judgement call to some extent. Personally, I do NOT allow players to use Trade Goods, since it would sorta circumvent the intent of the rule (namely, that you have enough political clout to have 20 influence).

However, a strong argument can be made that Trade Goods are allowed to be either resources or influence, and that if somebody has managed to amass enough wealth to use it then they should be allowed.

Since there are objectives that require Resources, Influence, and Trade Goods, I would keep them separate. But again, that's just me.

The whole point of Trade Goods is that you can spend them ANYtime you'd have to spend Resources or Influence. Nothing in the rules indicates that this is only valid during production.

Even the one that requires 4 TGs, 3 Resources, and 3 Influence, you could spend 10 TGs and accomplish the same thing. Keeping them separate arbitrarily is just adding an extra difficulty factor that I don't think needs to be there :)

As written in the rules, you can spend a Trade Good ANYTIME you would ordinarily spend a Resource or Influence.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Two rules questions:

Marx09 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:50:53 +0000

by Marx09

I think for your second rule, it's a judgement call to some extent. Personally, I do NOT allow players to use Trade Goods, since it would sorta circumvent the intent of the rule (namely, that you have enough political clout to have 20 influence).

However, a strong argument can be made that Trade Goods are allowed to be either resources or influence, and that if somebody has managed to amass enough wealth to use it then they should be allowed.

Since there are objectives that require Resources, Influence, and Trade Goods, I would keep them separate. But again, that's just me.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Two rules questions:

sigmazero13 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:05:50 +0000

by sigmazero13

It was ruled on the FFG forums at one point that Gen Synthesis would cause a dead Shock Troop to be revived on your home planet as a Shock Troop, because it's put there INSTEAD of dying.

Of course, if there were no GFs on your home world, the first ST to go there would end up converting to a GF (but the rest would stay ST).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Two rules questions:

ytter — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:55:26 +0000

by ytter

I don't believe there's a rule about shock troops being resurrected, but as I understand it, the only way a shock troop becomes a regular ground force is if it ends up being the only ground force on a planet.

So if it was resurrected alone on your home planet, then it would convert. If there was at least one other ground force there, then it would stay a shock troop.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Two rules questions:

boris317 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:19:10 +0000

by boris317

i believe the answer to your 2nd question is yes.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Two rules questions:

Chee — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:14:53 +0000

by Chee

2 is a yes.

not sure about 1.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Two rules questions:

mgentry — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:01:34 +0000

by mgentry

1) If a Shock Troop is resurrected via the Gen Synthesis technology, does it remain a Shock Troop when it reappears on its home planet? Or does it revert to being a Ground Force?

2) Can you spend trade goods in lieu of resources or influence to qualify for an objective? E.g., for the "I now spend 20 influence" objective, can you spend 5 influence from your planets, plus 15 trade goods?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

foxx — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:42:57 +0000

by foxx

Like most here, I tend to prefer Warfare I's primary over Warfare II. But the Warfare II's secondary beats I's hands down. Which isn't hard considering that it's nearly useless. (I've only played one game were I ever found it worth spending a command counter to activate.)

However, I won't use Warfare I with Diplomacy II. Diplomacy tends to be one of the weaker SCs anyways, so I don't think Warfare should trump it. (If you need to trump Diplomacy, use Initiative or Leadership.)

Second, if Production is being used, then Warfare II should be used as well. This is because Warfare I can be used effectively as a production, and thus makes the Production SC largely redundant.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Action/Political Card Inventory??

sigmazero13 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:50:28 +0000

by sigmazero13

http://www.ti3wiki.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1235925098

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Action/Political Card Inventory??

ryanhanson — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:40:58 +0000

by ryanhanson

That link appears to be broken. :(

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: TI3 Updated FAQ Posted

johnhagop — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:08:08 +0000

by johnhagop

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...

This is the latest.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

johnhagop — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:22:49 +0000

by johnhagop

GazPAge wrote:
I actually prefer Warfare II. I agree that the primary ability is inferior, but I actually like that. I think that I primary is overpowered, and that the secondary is too weak.

However, I haven't played with 4 or 8, so noone is forced to take it when it has no use early on.

I agree. It seems to me that Warfare I favors larger, more powerful fleets and races, where Warfare II helps all.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

GazPAge — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:23:41 +0000

by GazPAge

Actually, I guess you are right. I've tended to get my carriers up to move 2 really fast, and would rarely want to move 3 at the start, but if you don't have that, or start with some dreadnoughts, the extra move can be strong.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

islander — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:53:50 +0000

by islander

This day's game was everything I'd hoped for. Each player had a decent knowledge of the game going in, Everybody was on time, or at least more on time than for any of the other sessions. I was almost the final player to show up!

Everybody was on the ball when it came to playing action cards. Every card was played and counterplayed appropriately, and people remembered to use their agents correctly. Shoot, we even remembered to not kill a leader token without rolling a die first.

Those blue dice made a difference for me -- I hadn't really appreciated until Saturday how much effort I'd been burning in previous games, paying too much attention to every die rolled. It's so much faster to see the non-white number and know instantly that the die is a miss.

Finally, over ten hours into the game, I did not feel burned out. In past games, I'd often felt pretty exhausted by the time I got everything stored away, but not Saturday.

Pretty good for a seven player game!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

sigmazero13 — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:22:42 +0000

by sigmazero13

I see both Warfare I and Warfare II get taken early, especially by races that have "slow" carriers. Warfare I lets you take more systems early; Warfare II lets you reach a potentially more lucrative world earlier.

I don't know if I would say the Warfare II primary is "inferior"; it's just different. It doesn't let you take two actions with one fleet like Warfare I does, but it does let your fleet move further, and also gives your fleet a pretty decent combat advantage (which can often be the difference between winning and losing a battle).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

GazPAge — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:25:28 +0000

by GazPAge

I actually prefer Warfare II. I agree that the primary ability is inferior, but I actually like that. I think that I primary is overpowered, and that the secondary is too weak.

However, I haven't played with 4 or 8, so noone is forced to take it when it has no use early on.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

sigmazero13 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:17:23 +0000

by sigmazero13

I know some people play with both, too; IE, when you pick, if you pick Warfare you get to pick WHICH Warfare you want for that round. (However, they can't both be picked; if one is picked, the other is set aside until the next round).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

fastfingers — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:10:14 +0000

by fastfingers

I prefer Warfare I (the original) because of the "extra move" the Primary provides. That's a powerful option in the early game when you are usually trying to expand and grab powerful planet resources as quickly as possible.

File: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: SUPERCHEATSHEET 6

nicest_guy_22 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:28:38 +0000

by nicest_guy_22

SUPERCHEATSHEET 6 for Board Game: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition ]]>

File: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Super Cheat Sheet 6.0

nicest_guy_22 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:28:32 +0000

by nicest_guy_22

Super Cheat Sheet 6.0 for Board Game: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire ]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

JoshBot — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:08:49 +0000

by JoshBot

I agree completely. War I primary is better but War II secondary is better. I think the primary trumps the secondary, however, so I like War I better. War I's primary, when used effectively, can be vicious.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Warfare or Warfare II?

ytter — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:08:31 +0000

by ytter

We trade off. Like your group, many of us like the Warfare I ability.

However, the High Alert token, and the secondary for Warfare II also make it attractive.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Warfare or Warfare II?

Rootoslaw — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:58:25 +0000

by Rootoslaw

Hi there!

Brief question: Do you use Warfare or Warfare II in your games and why?

My gaming group uses all of the new SC from Shattered Empire expansion except for Warfare II. My buddies think that Warfare I primary ability is far more interesting than primary ability of Warfare II .

Generally I agree with them but I’ve come to a conclusion that secondary ability of Warfare II is so interesting that it might actually be worth it to give it a try. Secondary ability of Warfare I is IMHO quiet useless.

So I am very curious what do you and your groups think about these SC’s.

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

jsper — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:13:28 +0000

by jsper

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

cscottk — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:05:36 +0000

by cscottk

Here are some other images (already on BGG) from that session:

]]>

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

cscottk — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:58:21 +0000

by cscottk

evilgit wrote:
Nice report! I noticed the flight stands on the ships, looks good. Any problem moving them around with the stands?

Nope...not a problem really. Sometimes they get hung up on each other, but its still easier than laying the ships on the mapboard.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

Marx09 — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:25:54 +0000

by Marx09

Personally, I'm surprised the Sardakk N'orr will able to pull off the win... I would think in a "longer" game their initial military advantage would be countered by other race's technological superiority (at least, that's how it's worked for me the last couple times!).

Excellent write-up, though!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

evilgit — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:23:34 +0000

by evilgit

Nice report! I noticed the flight stands on the ships, looks good. Any problem moving them around with the stands?

Session: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Straight Out Of Greality #11 - Conquering this Fourteener

islander — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:31:11 +0000

by islander

A little over a year ago, shortly after I purchased Twilight Imperium 3, I decided to aim for a Fourteener, a full, day-long 14-point warathon. Among my several gamer groups I turned up no experienced players, so I began to hold monthly games of TI3, to grow our own players and have some fun getting used to the game. By the day of the Fourteener, I trusted that we'd have the players to make this memorable.

Saturday June 20th became that day.

Two months ago, I began to invite my out-of-town fellows (from the Northern COlorado Board Gamers, mostly), asking folks if they could be available on the 20th for a truly epic TI3 game. These efforts yielded up commitments from my good friends Neil, his college-age son Ben, and Skippen. With two weeks to go, I began recruiting gamers from my FLGS, starting with the folks who I knew would have the dedication but hopefully not the job conflicts for a Saturday-long game. Tundastorm, Lang, and Bill answered the call. I was the seventh player.

Our FLGS opened two hours early, and we began setup around 10:40am. Starting with the Speakership, here is our seating order:
• my Yssaril Tribe (9th game), green fleet
• Bill's Emirates of Hacan (4th game), yellow
• Ben's Winnu (2nd game), orange
• Skippen's Universities of Jol-Nar (4th game), purple
• Lang's Yin Brotherhood (4th game), grey
• Neil's Sardakk N'orr (5th game), red
• Tundastorm's L1Z1X (4th game), blue

Skippen has played this game for a longer time than I and he may well have more than four games under his belt. The other folks, like myself, are home-grown on this, my copy of the game.

I placed what turned out to be the only planetary system played into ring1. My opponents played a supernova, an asteroid belt, and three empty space systems (one with a wormhole) nearby. There were seven more planetary systems in ring2, with the remainder of the planets balanced between ring3 and ring4. We played with the Nexus and all four wormholes; the other end of the ring1 wormhole got placed next to Skippen's home system, with the other wormhole planet placed next to the ring1 wormhole. To help focus ourselves more fully on the capital, we agreed to scatter the eight Artifact tokens into the eight planetary systems in ring1 and ring2.

]]>Year 0. Setting up the Fourteener [photo:cscottk]

We placed the Nexus off-table onto a nearby fan.

]]>Wormhole Nexus on its very own small table [photo:cscottk]

We revealed the Stage One objectives:
• I am blockading an opponent's Space Dock.
• In each of more than two colors, I have more than one Technology.
• I have five Technologies.
• I now spend 4 Trade Goods, 3 resources, and 3 influence.
• I control five planets outside my home system.
• All three of my Space Docks are on the board.

With so many rich pickings at hand, and none of us in each other's way, we spent the first two years conquering nearby worlds. Tundastorm grabbed Technology in Year 1 and claimed the first VP of the game. In Year 2, the orange, grey, and green fleets each discovered an Artifact, while the L1Z1X claimed the other Tech objective. My green armada found the Lazax Survivors, and the Blue Artifact, and we settled our fifth non-home planet. The table passed a law that caused a loyal Ground Force to spawn at any formerly neutral planet upon that planet being controlled. The table named Lang as the first Voice of the Council. My neighbor Bill wandered into my left flank, forcing me to write off my vanguard. The purple, orange, and yellow players formed one trade bloc amongst themselves, leaving the other four players to do the same.

]]>Year 1. Annex towards Mecatol Rex [photo:cscottk]

]]>Year 2. Sidewise expansion [photo:cscottk]

The first two Stage II objectives were revealed to be:
•• I now spend 20 resources.
••• I control eleven planets outside my home system.

Skippen occupied all the wormhole systems in Year 3, obstructing my line to Mecatol Rex. I did not want to bloody my core fleet so early, and I had a feeling he'd vacate soon. Plus, he paid me off in Trade Goods, so I elected to let it go, as did my neighbor Tundastorm. Bill turned his attention to his left, allowing me to skirt by and occupy the systems in his line to MR, one of which proved to hold the Red Artifact. My vanguard swept into MR and brushed away the Guardians, but had no time to rejoice. Only two actions later, Lang arrived and destroyed my fleet, claiming the old capital as his own. Remarkably, two players claimed their Secret Objectives this year: Skippen claimed Keeper of Gates, and Neil claimed Focused. Six players had at least two VP each by the end of Year 3, with Ben's 4VP in the lead.

]]>Year 3. Mecatol Rex falls, twice [photo:cscottk]

Today's fourteener mandated planning to keep everybody's blood sugar stable. To sustain oursevles, we paused at this point for a few minutes to eat the large Silver Mine Sub sandwiches I'd ordered in. To ensure proper hydration, I'd also brought in jugs of Gatorade, one for each of us. Thus fortified, once more into the breach...

The fourth year proved to be a year of quiet consolidation. Lang eradicated a Settler colony of Ben's that had sprung up nearby, far away from Ben's fleets. Bill began to do the same to a Settlers colony of Skippen's. The remains of my green vanguard began plotting its escape back to home, as its position between MR and Lang on one edge and the massing Hacan/Winnu on the other was clearly untenable. Four players claimed the "I have two Technologies in each of three colors" VP. We annointed Skippen as the new Voice of the Council, replacing Ben. Five players tied for lead at four VP each.

]]>Year 4. Not a good year for Settler tokens [photo:cscottk]

The final Stage II objectives:
•• I successfully invaded two planets this year, each with at least one enemy Ground Force
•• I control ten planets outside my home system.

Neil continued his program of very quiet expansion in Year 5. Ben made a strong expansion move into Skippen's sector. The purple fleet fled homeward to counter. I evacuated a PDS and some ground troops from my Red Artifact world to my Blue, preparatory to setting up a PDS network to deter intruders -- but I did this a few actions too late. My blue and yellow neighbors each seized a planetary system next to my homeworld first, reducing me to a total of three systems occupied. Things were very quiet at MR, so Lang claimed an Imperial II VP along with his Secret Objective Usurper. Bill and Ben each claimed Stage II objectives, leaving the point race at 7-6-5-5-5-4-4, with Lang in the lead.

]]>Year 5. One can hear pins drop at the Old Capital [photo:cscottk]

My greenies had to make a strong attack to evict the pair of blue Dreadnaughts near my homeworld, so I attacked with a carrier, a cruiser, a few Fighters, and with three souped-up PDS. Disastrously, only one PDS hit. The Dreadnaught pair chuckled off my attacks and cinderized my attackers. Next, those Dreadnaughts blockaded my home system and, using their thrice-damned Stasis Capsules, occupied one planet there. It would take me two more years to evict them; this disaster proved to be the undoing of my imperial dreams. In other news, Ben assaulted and blockaded MR, Skippen blockaded Lang's homeworld, and Bill amassed two huge fleets preparatory to assaulting MR on his own. Neil fortified his border with Lang and attacked two of Tundastorm's systems, conquering one and blockading the other. Despite this, Tundastorm scored two objectives. A wormhole marker appeared behind Ben's lines, enabling Tundastorm to pop in and conquer that system. Ben immediately counterattacked and blockaded that planet. At the end of the Year 6, Lang shared the VP lead with Tundastorm.

]]>Year 6. Sometimes you beat on the war drums, sometimes the drums beat on you [photo:cscottk]

Five players scored two VP in Year 7. Neil conquered two enemy-occupied planets. Skippen and Bill each paid 20 resources for two VP. Lang cleaned up his home system and absorbed one last nearby neutral world, and traded heavy blows with Neil's fleet (with no territory gained or lost on the border). Skippen pushed Ben back a little, as Ben finished bombarding and conquering MR. The Hacan assaulted my Red Artifact world, overwhelming my token fleet presence (as foreseen) and leaving the planet blockaded. Ben's fleet pushed into Hope's End (a neighbor to the Hacan home system) and, after a huge space battle, blockaded it successfully. Year 7 saw six players within two VP of Lang/Tundastorm's 9VP.

]]>Year 7. Five players hit their stride [photo:cscottk]

We paused again at this point, because it was getting to be late afternoon. There was chatter about ending the game at ten or twelve VP. For myself, I could see that I might possibly rebound far enough to retake the lead within a few more years; none of us were truly out of the running at this point. In the end we decided to stick it out to the full fourteen point victory condition, partly because we were having fun, and partly because opportunities to accomplish this are so rare and far between.

Neil resumed his inexorable push into the blue fleet's systems, conquering another planet with red-fisted certainty. Ben evicted Tundastorm's presence behind Ben's line, and fortified his borders with Bill. Bill, with a fleet limit of a dozen, positioned his Hacan fleet for a jackhammer blow at Ben at MR. Lang continued to rebuild his decimated fleet. Only three players scored in this eighth year; I liberated my occupied home planet and scored a single celebratory VP at year's end. Neil and Ben each scored 3VP for control of eleven non-home planets. Neil's 11VP led Ben by one and Tundastorm/Lang by two.

]]>Year 8. The red and the orange rise [photo:cscottk]

Year 9. Skippen pushed Ben back away from "his" space. Ben's fleet at MR and Bill's fleet next door annihilated each other with no ships surviving. This left MR occupied with a few of Ben's Ground Forces, and no Ships at all within one hex of the former capital. This huge vacant DMZ meant that the Hacan and the Winnu would be unable to affect Neil and Lang militarily for a few years at a minimum. The table passed a law restricting everybody's Action Card hand size to three; as the Yssaril, I ignored this and grinned at my hand of ten. The Hacan fell back as I solidified control of my sector. Neil's fleet along the Langian March forced Lang's pieces to retreat away or risk annihilation. On Neil's other front, Tundastorm switched control of border worlds with Neil. Only Skippen and Lang scored any VP this turn.

]]>Year 9. Yellow and orange destroy each other over MR [photo:cscottk]

Bill conquered my Red Artifact planet early on in year 10, but I took up the mantle as the new Voice of the Council. Lang made a move towards Neil that forced him to use Imperial II's "b" power to build a bulwark. This bulwark pretty much assured Neil of victory on the coming year, but it cost Neil victory in this tenth year. Instead, Neil and I scored a VP for having five technologies.

In the final year, Neil had a commanding lead and the means to pay 20 resources to cement his win. Tundastorm attacked Neil but couldn't do any real damage. I conquered Tundastorm's homeworld, destroying his last Space Dock and fulfilling the terms of my Secret Objective Merciless. I took Imperial II but failed to occupy either MR or the Red Artifact world. Lang, within a single VP of the lead, also lacked enough leverage to destroy Neil's war chest. Lang re-assumed his position as Voice of the Council. Skippen scored a last-gasp 3VP via his control of eleven non-home planets, and then Neil ended it by paying the 20 and reaching the summit of today's Fourteener.

]]>Year 11. The final ascent: victory for Red [photo:cscottk]

The final scores, in Year Eleven:
1st: Neil's Sardakk Norr, fourteen points.
2nd: Lang's Yin Brotherhood and Skippen's Jol'Narr, twelve points.
4th: Ben's Winnu, ten points.
5th: Bill's Hacan and Tundastorm's L1Z1X, eight points.
7th: my Yssaril, six points.

This game ended at 9:20pm, after ten and a half hours.

Congratulations to Neil. He stayed within his plan for the entire game, building a close-knit but populous empire. His strategy fit the map well and he earned his win richly.

Post-Game:

Ten-point games of TI3 are usually a sprint -- the win will usually go to the first player who puts together a behemoth Imperial-II-based turn. This Fourteener was a different beast. Our top three players had only one multi-public-objective turn among them all game. Instead, our top three players were the same three who fulfilled their Secret Objective. For our game at least, victory did not require a strategy centered around Imperial-II.

All the players were clustered within two points of each other for two-thirds of the game. I think this tension really drove up the fun level. I was tantalizingly close to a five or six point turn at the end. I am not disappointed at coming in last.

This fourteener was the first game I played with the correct rule for Assembly: when playing with the Assembly placard from Shattered Empires, each player begins the game with two Political Cards in hand. Amazingly, we'd never noticed that little rule before, and it made a hugely fun difference in the senatorial arena. Nobody had a small empire in our game; every player was able to nudge each referendum around, occasionally ambushing the vote with well-played action cards. TI3 could use more of this mechanic, I think.

Acknowledgements:

I would like to thank the guys for playing this game. It's been a long hard climb, but we now have a Fourteener under our belts.

I would like to thank the Digital Dungeon and Tom for opening up early and letting us descend en masse. The front room, which we could seal against outside noise, was an invaluable boon. Tom you are a good friend. Thanks to Ed for ordering in the special blue dice that made counting Fighter hits from across the table a breeze

]]>

-Islander (Chris)

session report #09
session report #07
session report #06
session report #05
session report #04

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Multiple System/Galaxy variant

BeanThere — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:46:09 +0000

by BeanThere

On FFG's website they have a few preset maps you can download in a PDF file. You can find the PDF on this page:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...

Or this is the link directly to the PDf file:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...

The last page has two "Multi-Galaxy" maps.

Basically it's just seperate areas connected by wormholes.

I just noticed that some of the tiles shown are only provided in the shattered empire expansion. But it gives you the idea.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Multiple System/Galaxy variant

Saan — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:08:09 +0000

by Saan

I have seen pictures of people playing a variant where there are seperate systems of tiles rather than one contiguous hex. I was looking in the variants and files and i couldnt find any entries for this.

Any way one of you kind fellows could point me in the right direction?

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

Guantanamo — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:07:19 +0000

by Guantanamo

Traditional Sunday Game at Rapier 2009

]]>

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

ZackStack — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:58:57 +0000

by ZackStack

Closing boxes when not in use helps keep down overall setup time ;)

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Shock Troop question on Hope's End

halbower — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:32:27 +0000

by halbower

sigmazero13 wrote:

For what it's worth, you realize by enforcing the 2/0 to 0/2 method that you are also saying that the following situation holds:

A player Invades a planet with 1 GF and 5 STs. During the first round of combat, the lone GF rolls a 0, converting to an ST. Since there is no longer a GF, all 6 STs immediately convert to GFs.

Essentially, by rolling a good roll, the player is drastically punished, rather than the GF simply "staying" a GF.

Perfect analogy. There should be no further debate on this subject.

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

cscottk — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:35:07 +0000

by cscottk

Final scoreboard at the end of Islander's Farewell 14-point game

]]>

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

cscottk — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:29:56 +0000

by cscottk

Detail of the end of Islander's Farewell 14-point game

]]>

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

cscottk — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:24:16 +0000

by cscottk

The final board of a 14-point game.

]]>

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

cscottk — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:21:55 +0000

by cscottk

Playing Islander's Farewell TI: III Game

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Shock Troop question on Hope's End

johnhagop — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:26:41 +0000

by johnhagop

Speed Racer wrote:
The rules say that

"Shock Troops must always be present with at least
one friendly, plastic Ground Force. If a Shock Trooper
is ever left alone...

I think the word "alone" is crucial in the interpretation of this rule. I also would think 1/1...

Also, the example where 5 shock troops and one ground troop (which roles a natural 10) is pretty compelling.

And that's my two cents.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Rules clarification

halbower — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:56:22 +0000

by halbower

The Political Stability allows you to keep 1 Strategy Card. And it counts as your first pick.

The Jolnar may reroll the Ancient Artifact die if they are the active player

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Rules clarification

Ghost Cat — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:49:34 +0000

by Ghost Cat

We played our first game of TI3 yesterday and had a great time - we even managed to finish the four player game in less than 6 hours! A couple of things came up and I can't seem to find the answers in the rules or FAQs:

One of the players used 'Political Stability' as an action to keep one of his two strategy cards for the next round. As neither card in his hand was Imperial or Initiative should he have kept both of his strategy cards? If not, and if he should have only kept one, should that count as his first or second pick of strategy cards? We ruled that he kept one card and that was counted as his first pick. This was very important, as it meant that he missed picking the Initiative card, thereby missing out on the 2 VPs from Imperial for another four turns.

The Jol-Nar player had a huge fleet on Mecatol Rex, 7 BPs and was poised to win in the strategy phase by claiming his secret objective and a public objective. He activated the political primary and, through quick use of 'determine policy', we ended up with 'Ancient Artefact'. As it was the Jol-Nar player's turn he rolled the die, Mecatol Rex went boom and we easily took the planet from him. One of the Jol-Nar special abilities is to spend a strategy command counter to reroll one of their die rolls. As it was his political activation which caused the 'Ancient Artefact' die roll to be made, could he have used his special ability to reroll the die?

Hope someone can help with the answers to these questions!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Retreating? Huh?

halbower — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:39:22 +0000

by halbower

Yes, you have grasped the retreat/withdrawal rules correctly. That is why the SE expansion gives another (somewhat viable) option.

It's not very often that you will have an adjacent system that you retreat/withdrawal to. However, there is an overlooked opportunity.

If your opponent played Diplomacy II or Signal Jam on a certain system, you may withdrawal to those systems. For example, your opponent played Diplomacy II on Mecatol Rex. You attack a system adjacent to Mecatol Rex, announce a withdrawal, conduct one round of combat then move your fleet to Mecatol Rex.

Once you understand this tactic, the rules for withdrawal become less restrictive.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: complete card lists?

sigmazero13 — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:34:10 +0000

by sigmazero13

I'll have to look, but I think there's one on the ti3wiki.org forums.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: complete card lists?

mgentry — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:59:55 +0000

by mgentry

Anyone have a complete card list for TI + SE? There used to be one on the FFG forums, I think, but when they switched to the new website it disappeared.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: General:: Re: SE Domain Counters

sigmazero13 — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:10:00 +0000

by sigmazero13

LOL, I thought I'd posted that somewhere recently.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Retreating? Huh?

sigmazero13 — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:06:06 +0000

by sigmazero13

As mentioned, the Strategic Retreat rule is a good one. However, make sure you not only read the S.E. rules for it, but the FAQ, as some changes were made into the requirements for activating the "retreat" system (specifically, it just has to be clear of enemy units).

Note, however, that this rule only applies to RETREATS, not WITHDRAWALS. IE, only the Defender can use it, not the attacker. The reason for this is that sometimes the defender doesn't really have a chance to "plan ahead" and activate an adjacent system in anticipation of a retreat. The Attacker, however, always has the opportunity to pre-plan such things. If they plan on withdrawing from the battle, they must activate a system to withdraw to first.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Retreating? Huh?

ChillusMaximus — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:29:50 +0000

by ChillusMaximus

Yes, you guys should use the Strategic Retreat Variant. It's explained in the SE expansion rules.

It's basically the same as the other with the announcing of the retreat before the battle round but at the end of the round you can use a counter from the strategy allocation area to activate a adjacent system and retreat there.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Retreating? Huh?

jurgenaut — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:55:07 +0000

by jurgenaut

metelo wrote:
If I recall correctly, your modification was actually one of the rules variation from the expansion

Yeah, the Strategic Retreat option as it were.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Retreating? Huh?

metelo — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:10:15 +0000

by metelo

If I recall correctly, your modification was actually one of the rules variation from the expansion

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Retreating? Huh?

King of Blades — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:01:57 +0000

by King of Blades

I think it is almost impossible to retreat. But I think the rule with the other activated system is necessary to avoid that a player is able to move a fleet twice.

If you would be able to retreat in any system, your fleet would be in an unactivated system and would be able to move again.

P.S. your rule modification sounds good

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Retreating? Huh?

Sarimrune — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:08:29 +0000

by Sarimrune

When executing a withdrawal or retreat, a player
must withdraw his entire fleet to an adjacent system
that has previously been activated by the withdrawing/
retreating player. If a player has no previously
activated systems adjacent to the contested system,
he may not withdraw or retreat

So...I can't even see how this is possible in 90% of the retreats.

Any ship that used 2 or more movement will be moving from a non-adacent system...and thus it is impossible for them to retreat. Am I reading this correct?

My group has agreed that as written,these are the worst retreat rules ever. At the very least, you could move them to an empty system and throw a token on that system to 'activate' it.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: General:: Re: SE Domain Counters

Howitzer_120mm — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 06:17:48 +0000

by Howitzer_120mm

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/410953

:p

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

Atotalnutt — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:15:01 +0000

by Atotalnutt

Using the two-galaxy six-player preset map.

]]>

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

Atotalnutt — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:33:07 +0000

by Atotalnutt

My wife helping me expose our daughter to quality Ameritrash at a youn...

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: General:: Re: SE Domain Counters

brinksw — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:25:26 +0000

by brinksw

sigmazero13 wrote:
Here's a list of all the tokens. The first number is the number in the base set, the second number is the number in the expansion. Numbers in parentheses are for the tokens that have numbers ON them.

Automated Defense System 0 3
A-Wormhole 1 0
Biohazard 4 0
B-Wormhole 1 0
Fighter Ambush (1) 0 2
Fighter Ambush (2) 0 2
Fighter Ambush (3) 0 1
Hidden Factory 0 3
Hostage Situation 0 4
Hostile Locals (1) 5 0
Hostile Locals (2) 2 0
Hostile Locals (3) 1 0
Industrial Society 2 0
Lazax Survivors 2 0
Native Intelligence 0 4
Natural Wealth (2) 5 0
Natural Wealth (4) 4 0
Peaceful Annexation 9 3
Radiation 4 0
Settlers 2 0
Technological Society 2 0

Awesome!
Thanks!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Simulated Early Turns

sigmazero13 — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:50:24 +0000

by sigmazero13

You can certainly play that way, but there is nothing in the rules for Simulated early turns to indicate that ship movement has any bearing on where you place your troops and planets :)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: General:: Re: SE Domain Counters

sigmazero13 — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:44:41 +0000

by sigmazero13

Here's a list of all the tokens. The first number is the number in the base set, the second number is the number in the expansion. Numbers in parentheses are for the tokens that have numbers ON them.

Automated Defense System 0 3
A-Wormhole 1 0
Biohazard 4 0
B-Wormhole 1 0
Fighter Ambush (1) 0 2
Fighter Ambush (2) 0 2
Fighter Ambush (3) 0 1
Hidden Factory 0 3
Hostage Situation 0 4
Hostile Locals (1) 5 0
Hostile Locals (2) 2 0
Hostile Locals (3) 1 0
Industrial Society 2 0
Lazax Survivors 2 0
Native Intelligence 0 4
Natural Wealth (2) 5 0
Natural Wealth (4) 4 0
Peaceful Annexation 9 3
Radiation 4 0
Settlers 2 0
Technological Society 2 0

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: General:: Re: SE Domain Counters

Greeek geek — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:08:23 +0000

by Greeek geek

People without the expansion would be more able to help you. Why don't you ask about the distribution of the Domain Counters of the base game in the base game page. Then you do the math and get your answer.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: General:: SE Domain Counters

brinksw — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:41:52 +0000

by brinksw

Does anyone know the distribution of domain counters?
I'm trying to separate the expansion from the main game. The TI3Wiki page that I could find only had both combined...
Thanks!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Simulated Early Turns

metelo — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:00:15 +0000

by metelo

We have been playing as being able to get to a place from your Home system as a single activation. the interpretation of Turns in our group has been strictly as getting to activate 2 systems one after the other.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Simulated Early Turns

sigmazero13 — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:44:14 +0000

by sigmazero13

As long as the carrier in question is in the system with them, I don't see why not. The rules do not have a restriction that your carriers have to move there in one activation. As you say, it's a simulated set of TURNS.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Simulated Early Turns

Roygeek — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:56:44 +0000

by Roygeek

I have a question regarding the simulated early turns option we use every time we play:

In the "Place Units" phase, Can units be placed 2 spaces away from your home system if you do not have a carrier that can travel 2 spaces?

We currently interpret this as simulated early turns (plural), so that we can allow it. Not sure if that is right, but it seems logical.

Any clarifications or thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3Wiki.org: Knights Of Cydonia PBF Recruiting!

Howitzer_120mm — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:11:19 +0000

by Howitzer_120mm

When will they start?
I would love to play, but can only start next Monday.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Variants:: Re: Moar Wormholes

GeneralChaos — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:29:29 +0000

by GeneralChaos

Don't forget the distant suns wormhole tokens, even if you're not using distant suns.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3Wiki.org: Knights Of Cydonia PBF Recruiting!

malloc — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:22:42 +0000

by malloc

I am in!

Its been about a month since I had a chance to play and not host one os these.

-M

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3Wiki.org: Knights Of Cydonia PBF Recruiting!

godfeather — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:35:41 +0000

by godfeather

I wonder where you got the names for those games from. ;)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3Wiki.org: Knights Of Cydonia PBF Recruiting!

FunkyBunch — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:07:52 +0000

by FunkyBunch

What you would have to do is make an account on the wiki as that is where the PBeM will be hosted. You will need to make an account on both the forums and the main site as they are not integrated as of yet.

I may be starting a PBeM soon myself, so if you don't get into this one, it might be a good idea to make an account to be able to play on any PBeM games that come up.

You don't have to be familiar with how a wiki works for most games. The important thing is watching the forums over there as there are new games every week or so.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: TI3Wiki.org: Knights Of Cydonia PBF Recruiting!

CombatWombat81 — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:10:33 +0000

by CombatWombat81

So, how do I join?
Should mention that i`ve never tried the TI3 wiki though.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: TI3Wiki.org: Knights Of Cydonia PBF Recruiting!

Illumanus — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:31:35 +0000

by Illumanus

Greetings All!

I am moderating two new games: Knights of Cydonia for newbies and Starlight for veterans (100+ posts - or a familiar face).

Main page:
http://www.ti3wiki.org/index.php?title=Knights_Of_Cydonia_PB...
Forums:
http://www.ti3wiki.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1245267695

For Knights I'm open to just about any of the *standard* variants that doesn't cause the game to run longer than normal (such as Long War). Variants will be voted on, with common sense resting with me.

Races will be by top 3 and I have a few modifications to the game to help speed game play. There will be a time limit. See the rules page.

May the dice be with you!
Ill

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Salvage operations

swordwielder — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:00:56 +0000

by swordwielder

Thanks!

]]>

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire

crashcrosby — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:47:20 +0000

by crashcrosby

7 player shattered empire. Purple ends up winning.

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Re: Salvage operations

sigmazero13 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:02:22 +0000

by sigmazero13

No. You must have the War Sun tech to build a War Sun for any reason, even through special means such as this.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition - Shattered Empire:: Rules:: Salvage operations

swordwielder — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:22:58 +0000

by swordwielder

Is it possible to build War Sun with Mentak's Salvage Operations racial tehnology after defeating it in a space combat even if you do not have War Sun technology?

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Newby- what options for 1st game (short attention span)

metelo — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:06:14 +0000

by metelo

This is what we do in our group. Our games tend to be between 3.5 to 4H with 5 or 6 players:

1 - Preset the galaxy (I know building as you go is part of the game strategy, but usually adds 45 min to 1H in our group)
2 - Play with the Objectives already revealed (The Suggested variant using Imperial 2 from the original rules book)
3 - Use the fast start rules (It is part of the expansion, but it is easy to do) This saves about 1H from the early game. be careful with race choices though, because this affects the races balance
4 - Elect a player to be the whip and keep the game moving. Speed up building, keep track of who is next, etc

Before using these changes, our games tended to last 6h to 10h.

PS - we do use a few other variants - Domain counters, colonies/mines, racial techs, sometimes artifacts.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: 7 player map

Gavrok — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:58:09 +0000

by Gavrok

I was thinking of adding some hexagons eg making a row of 3 at the nend or making a couple of extra rows of 6.......some paying around I think

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:04:27 +0000

by GazPAge

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted in the thread. We played on Saturday and everyone enjoyed it immensely. None of us played very well, as we were stuck in a massive arms race in the centre, with no one daring to back down by not producing. I finally was ready to withdraw from the centre and go for some points, when the Imperium Rex card was revealed. I also struggled as there wasn't a single combat that did not involve me.

In case anyone is interested, we used the SE SCs, the 3 player pre-set map, and no special rules (so we used single planets instead of trade stations and hope's end.

Cheers,
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

malloc — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:07:21 +0000

by malloc

I 90% of the time use.

SE strat cards (a must)
Leaders (also a must)
Artifacts (face up)
Racial Techs
Sabotage Runs
Preset maps (face down just adds time and can screw people with bad placement)
Refineries/colonies
I also remove the Merciless Secret objective from the game (it is a lot harder than the rest)
worm Hole Nexus (or more than one)
custodians of MR

-M

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: 7 player map

OrangeCat X — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:47:56 +0000

by OrangeCat X

2 galaxies and put M-Rex in the Nexus.

THAT should be interesting...

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: 7 player map

malloc — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:09:04 +0000

by malloc

Smoo wrote:
Throw out Mecatol Rex and put a homeworld in the center of the map. Throw out any objectives or other cards/rules that refer to Mecatol Rex.

That's the only way to do it on a standard size map. To meet your 3-space minimum with Mecatol, you have to use the larger size given in the SE rulebook.

Since Mecatol Rex is so central to (and in, of course) the game, I strongly suggest you don't remove it, though. Just play with the big map.

I would not do it this way. The guy in the middle gets the shaft and there are just too many Objectives with M-Rex and this is what drives the conflict.

the wormhole galaxy works well for this. 3 and 4 player. or you can use the 8 players and just put neutral race in play to keep things even.

-M

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

sigmazero13 — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:17:19 +0000

by sigmazero13

MaximumPain wrote:
Sidewynnder wrote:
Gotcha! Yep! Did most everything right. Now I know about the PDS stuff though. Thanks!

One more thing, in the four player game, when you draw two strategy cards, you do use both before passing correct?

No you choose to use your impulse to activate one or the other your choice. As the turn continues you activate the other one at some point before you pass. You must activate both before you pass but when is up to you.

Just to clarify, what MaximumPain is saying is "You must activate both your Strategy Cards before you are allowed to pass".

RE the PDFs you only get one shot per PDF when a system is activated so only once a battle during the pre battle step. If another player including yourself activates the same system later in the turn your PDFs get to shoot again.

Just as a reminder, too: if someone else activates a system, you can fire into the system (if you are in range, of course), but only at the player who activated it. If Player A is in the system already, and Player B activates it to move ships in, you can only shoot at Player B's ships.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Several random questions from second game

sigmazero13 — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:13:59 +0000

by sigmazero13

Some of these answers reiterate what was answered above, but I can't find a way to see both the original list and the above answers at the same time when replying, so I apologize for those repeats that I can't remember are repeats.

[1]1. If I remember correctly SE came with some replacement tech cards. I clearly did not separate them out right the first time as I had two cards with the same name. Is the text of the correct cards anywhere?
One thing to note, too, is that all the SE cards have a little blue and white symbol on them; If you find two cards with the same "title", you can tell which one is the replacement by looking for the symbol.

Also, note that there was a printing error with one of the Orange techs; I think they printed two Sarween Tools, and didn't print Transit Diodes (I'd have to look to be sure). I'm not sure if later print runs fixed this, but there was a replacement program to get the correct card.

4. One of the action cards killed a ground forces and reverted a planet to neutral. Do you lose your space dock and PDSs if you have any on the planet? We played not as no one was prepared for it, but were pretty sure that this wasn't the correct rules. In future we will be be keeping 2 GF on any such planets.

Always guard planets with your SDs and PDSs with Ground Forces. If you are the Winnu, you only need 1 GF to protect, as their planets with GFs are immune to Local Unrest. Otherwise, keep 2 there, just to be safe. If it reverts to neutral, you lose all the PDS and SD on it.

5. If I understand correctly, you can only claim one objective in the status phase. Therefore Beauracracy is primarily useful to score 2 objectives in one round. In our game, it wasn't taken until 4 or 5 turns in when there were a bunch of bonus tokens on it as no one knew what the objectives were. Were we playing correctly? In more experienced players games, do people take Beauracracy as they know they have a good chance of meeting one of the newly revealed objectives?

It's not uncommon for it to take several turns for it to get picked. 4 or 5 turns seems like a lot, though; in the games I've played, it's usually picked by the 3rd round (and often the 2nd, depending on what the original objective is). Later in the game, it gets picked nearly every round, because you want to try and keep it away from the leader long enough to ensure he doesn't try and get Imperium Rex in play.

6. Our game was pretty aggressive around the centre, so we did not achieve many objectives. We always felt we just had to build more units each turn rather than focus on objectives. The Imperium Rex card came up first in the stage II objectives, but even if we had focused on objectives better, I can't imagine we could have got to 9 points. Are we doing something wrong.

This is one that probably comes more from experience. There comes a line between building a good military, and gaining objectives. The one who goes for objectives (while not overly neglecting his military) will almost always come out ahead of someone who focuses exclusively on ships. It just takes some practice balancing this. I see just games go to the full 9 points quite often; sometimes Imperium Rex does come first, but not always. I think they are both just as likely, depending on the game.

6.b Also, we played that the game immediately ended when the card came up, not allowing the player to use Beauracracy to claim an objective and calling it a draw. Presumably there is a "decider" mechanic?

You played the "immediately" part right; If you turn over Imperium Rex, no more objectives can be claimed by ANYONE, even the person who turned it over. As mentioned above the tiebreaker is in the original rulebook, tucked away in a little sidebar box.

7. We were using the SE SCs and objective cards, and I had the ACs and Political cards all mixed in. We also used no special rules, not even shock troopers etc. We played that you discarded and redrew any card that referred to rules not in play, but what do you do with the card that says "gain one shock trooper or two ground forces"? Arguably the player can still play it and get the ground forces.

I would say the same as you; if you aren't playing with Shock Troops, just use the 2 GF part. For most of the others, I think some good judgment can help determine if you can use them or not. For instance, Determine Policy, I believe, technically says it is used with the Political Card, but it could easily be adapted for use with the Assembly card also.

8. Can someone explain briefly what happens with PDS fire when no space battle occurs or anything. The Jol Nar player had Mecatol Rex and built some ships there. The other two players had several PDS around it with the extra range tech. Could we have all fired into the system?

ANY player can fire into an activated system during a Tactical action, but only at the player who activated it (IE, if one player activates it to move ships in and start a battle, other players can fire into the system also, but only at the active player, not at the player who was already there).

8b. Also, can a third party fire into a combat he is not involved in? If so, presumably he can choose who to fire at? Can he choose to split shots against both enemies.

See above. Only the ships belonging to the active player can be fired at. The only exception is that if YOU are the active player and activate a system, you can fire at whoever was already there.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: 7 player map

Smoo — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:47:26 +0000

by Smoo

Throw out Mecatol Rex and put a homeworld in the center of the map. Throw out any objectives or other cards/rules that refer to Mecatol Rex.

That's the only way to do it on a standard size map. To meet your 3-space minimum with Mecatol, you have to use the larger size given in the SE rulebook.

Since Mecatol Rex is so central to (and in, of course) the game, I strongly suggest you don't remove it, though. Just play with the big map.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: 7 player map

thr33why — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:37:00 +0000

by thr33why

You could great a 3 player map and a 4 player map and join them via wormholes or using the wormhole nexus. not sure how balanced this would be.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: 7 player map

Gavrok — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:15:08 +0000

by Gavrok

Hi
Im looking for a 7 player map for newbys ..precreated
I dont want to use the 7 player map in the ti3 web pages as it uses too many hexes and is too large......any ideas ensuring min imum of 3paces between homeworlds but still reasonable size

thanks

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Several random questions from second game

GazPAge — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:09:05 +0000

by GazPAge

Thanks for all of this.

Which way were you saying in answer to my question 7? Also, anyone able to answer on question 5?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

MaximumPain — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:51:09 +0000

by MaximumPain

Sidewynnder wrote:
Gotcha! Yep! Did most everything right. Now I know about the PDS stuff though. Thanks!

One more thing, in the four player game, when you draw two strategy cards, you do use both before passing correct?

No you choose to use your impulse to activate one or the other your choice. As the turn continues you activate the other one at some point before you pass. You must activate both before you pass but when is up to you.

RE the PDFs you only get one shot per PDF when a system is activated so only once a battle during the pre battle step. If another player including yourself activates the same system later in the turn your PDFs get to shoot again.

Happy gaming.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

Sidewynnder — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:36:18 +0000

by Sidewynnder

Gotcha! Yep! Did most everything right. Now I know about the PDS stuff though. Thanks!

One more thing, in the four player game, when you draw two strategy cards, you do use both before passing correct?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Several random questions from second game

HeavyGear — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:45:23 +0000

by HeavyGear

Neurosion wrote:
HeavyGear wrote:
2. At one point one player ran out of political cards (we were using the SE strategy cards). Should we have been taking cards at some point or anything? If not, presumably the assembly card player cannot ask them to play a card.

Only take Political Cards as called for in the rules or the cards, such as when the Assembly card says to do so. If a player runs out of Political Cards, they can not be called upon to play one.

Correction from page 15 of the SE rules:

If the player does not have any Political
Cards in his hand, he draws a the top card of
the Political Deck and plays it.

Oops! My fault.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Several random questions from second game

Neurosion — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:37:50 +0000

by Neurosion

HeavyGear wrote:
2. At one point one player ran out of political cards (we were using the SE strategy cards). Should we have been taking cards at some point or anything? If not, presumably the assembly card player cannot ask them to play a card.

Only take Political Cards as called for in the rules or the cards, such as when the Assembly card says to do so. If a player runs out of Political Cards, they can not be called upon to play one.

Correction from page 15 of the SE rules:

If the player does not have any Political
Cards in his hand, he draws a the top card of
the Political Deck and plays it.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Several random questions from second game

HeavyGear — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:16:34 +0000

by HeavyGear

I'll try to help with the ones I know.

GazPAge wrote:
1. If I remember correctly SE came with some replacement tech cards. I clearly did not separate them out right the first time as I had two cards with the same name. Is the text of the correct cards anywhere?

The cards are explained in detail in the rulebooks. They are available for download at FFG's site ( http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...)

2. At one point one player ran out of political cards (we were using the SE strategy cards). Should we have been taking cards at some point or anything? If not, presumably the assembly card player cannot ask them to play a card.

Only take Political Cards as called for in the rules or the cards, such as when the Assembly card says to do so. If a player runs out of Political Cards, they can not be called upon to play one.

3. One player was the Jol Nar. After the first turn, it seemed like it was best for neither of the other players to take technology, pretty much nerfing his power. Was that right, or can he gain some benefit if he takes Technology himself.

The SE rulebook explains how Jol-Nar uses their ability with the Tech II secondary. However, if no one chooses the card in the first place, there's not much they can do except take it themselves.

According to the FAQ, the Space Dock and PDSs are destroyed because the planet reverts to Neutral status.

6.b Also, we played that the game immediately ended when the card came up, not allowing the player to use Bureaucracy to claim an objective and calling it a draw. Presumably there is a "decider" mechanic?

Page 14 of the TI3 rulebook explains how to handle ties (The "Imperium Rex" box in the upper right part of the page).

Yes.

Page 11 of the TI3 rulebook (the "PDS Fire" section) states that "enemy" PDS units may fire at ships in an activated system. Since technically everyone is the enemy of everyone else, yes, the other two players could have fired.

8b. Also, can a third party fire into a combat he is not involved in? If so, presumably he can choose who to fire at? Can he choose to split shots against both enemies.

I'm assuming you're talking about PDS fire? If so, then no, because you can only fire at the active player's fleet.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Several random questions from second game

GazPAge — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:00:09 +0000

by GazPAge

I played my second game if TI3 yesterday, but it's been a year since my first one, and the 2 other players had not played before. It was still great fun, but I think it would be way better with more than 3. Lot's of things came up, and we mostly just made a call to move on. I'm pretty sure we played quite a lot of things wrong as we often went for the less harsh interpretation when we weren't sure. Anyway, can anyone answer a bunch of questions?

1. If I remember correctly SE came with some replacement tech cards. I clearly did not separate them out right the first time as I had two cards with the same name. Is the text of the correct cards anywhere?

2. At one point one player ran out of political cards (we were using the SE strategy cards). Should we have been taking cards at some point or anything? If not, presumably the assembly card player cannot ask them to play a card

3. One player was the Jol Nar. After the first turn, it seemed like it was best for neither of the other players to take technology, pretty much nerfing his power. Was that right, or can he gain some benefit if he takes Technology himself.

4. One of the action cards killed a ground forces and reverted a planet to neutral. Do you lose your space dock and PDSs if you have any on the planet? We played not as no one was prepared for it, but were pretty sure that this wasn't the correct rules. In future we will be be keeping 2 GF on any such planets.

5. If I understand correctly, you can only claim one objective in the status phase. Therefore Beauracracy is primarily useful to score 2 objectives in one round. In our game, it wasn't taken until 4 or 5 turns in when there were a bunch of bonus tokens on it as no one knew what the objectives were. Were we playing correctly? In more experienced players games, do people take Beauracracy as they know they have a good chance of meeting one of the newly revealed objectives?

6. Our game was pretty aggressive around the centre, so we did not achieve many objectives. We always felt we just had to build more units each turn rather than focus on objectives. The Imperium Rex card came up first in the stage II objectives, but even if we had focused on objectives better, I can't imagine we could have got to 9 points. Are we doing something wrong.

6.b Also, we played that the game immediately ended when the card came up, not allowing the player to use Beauracracy to claim an objective and calling it a draw. Presumably there is a "decider" mechanic?

7. We were using the SE SCs and objective cards, and I had the ACs and Political cards all mixed in. We also used no special rules, not even shock troopers etc. We played that you discarded and redrew any card that referred to rules not in play, but what do you do with the card that says "gain one shock trooper or two ground forces"? Arguably the player can still play it and get the ground forces.

8. Can someone explain briefly what happens with PDS fire when no space battle occurs or anything. The Jol Nar player had Mecatol Rex and built some ships there. The other two players had several PDS around it with the extra range tech. Could we have all fired into the system?

8b. Also, can a third party fire into a combat he is not involved in? If so, presumably he can choose who to fire at? Can he choose to split shots against both enemies.

Any help much appreciated.

Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

HeavyGear — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:08:36 +0000

by HeavyGear

Sidewynnder wrote:
Ok, so we had our first game the other day and it took us 7 and a half hours but it was a ton of fun and we did a couple of things wrong (with the use of the strategy cards and specifically the initiative card) but have those corrected. Our time should go down a lot (it was a four player game).

Ok, so when I activate a system intending to battle, does my fleet supply limit the number of ships I can send into that system to battle? For instance, if my fleet supply is 4 can I only send a total of four ships to that battle? We played this as a yes. I think that is correct. I didn't see it mentioned in the rules.

Fleet supply limits apply at all times (TI3 rulebook, page 21, in "The Fleet Supply Area" section).

My other question is in regards to the L1z1x Mindnet. I was this race and one of their special abilities is that they get an extra strategy allocation token at the start. Does this refer to the turn or game? I assumed it was game, and so therefore only used this power on the first turn. Was this correct?

Yes, only once at the start of the game.

And finally, with PDS, say someone moves a fleet into my system, do I get a preliminary shot at them and then they initiate the battle and then I get another shot with my pds and then the battle continues as normal? And how does this work with the PDS upgraded with the ability to fire into adjacent systems?
uys!

You only get one shot with your PDS (during step 3 of the Activation Sequence; page 11). After that, Space Combat begins. PDS units do not participate in Space Combat. Defending PDS units will get to participate in any Invasion Combat (page 17).

Hope this helps.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

Sidewynnder — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 18:48:08 +0000

by Sidewynnder

Cool we played that right then!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

EwMatias — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 18:38:06 +0000

by EwMatias

The Fleet Supply limits the number of your ships that can ocuppy the same hex. So, you can't activate a system and move five ships into it if your fleet supply is four, for example.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Questions regarding fleet supply and space battles and one other.

Sidewynnder — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 18:23:11 +0000

by Sidewynnder

Ok, so we had our first game the other day and it took us 7 and a half hours but it was a ton of fun and we did a couple of things wrong (with the use of the strategy cards and specifically the initiative card) but have those corrected. Our time should go down a lot (it was a four player game).

Ok, so when I activate a system intending to battle, does my fleet supply limit the number of ships I can send into that system to battle? For instance, if my fleet supply is 4 can I only send a total of four ships to that battle? We played this as a yes. I think that is correct. I didn't see it mentioned in the rules.

My other question is in regards to the L1z1x Mindnet. I was this race and one of their special abilities is that they get an extra strategy allocation token at the start. Does this refer to the turn or game? I assumed it was game, and so therefore only used this power on the first turn. Was this correct?

And finally, with PDS, say someone moves a fleet into my system, do I get a preliminary shot at them and then they initiate the battle and then I get another shot with my pds and then the battle continues as normal? And how does this work with the PDS upgraded with the ability to fire into adjacent systems?

Thanks guys!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

thr33why — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:45:11 +0000

by thr33why

Yeah, I like to use pre-built maps + face down tiles.... but can't see yet how they might work together....as you generally know where stuff is. unless I fix what is in each ring of the galaxy, and randomly place each ring, knowing that each ring will have X planets etc, but not where. Might work.

Reading more about distant suns, I might take that out, or take out the nasty ones, to encourage players to explore, move out past their howm systems.

Thanks again guys.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Newby- what options for 1st game (short attention span)

egoncasteel — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:15:02 +0000

by egoncasteel

Normally a game takes around 1 hour per player. This can be slower with new players.

One of the ways we have found to speed up the game is team play. You play as normal with a few exceptions.
- One of your neighbors will be your teammate
- You Start with one trade agreement with your teammate
- You may have only one trade agreement with your teammate
- You can trade trade goods and action cards between you and your teammate as normal, but you cant give your teammate resources.
- Your teammates ships my pass through a system you have ships in but may not stop.
- Your teammates ships do not blockade your space docks but you can not make ships there.
- You can not have ground forces from both team members on the same planet at the same time.
- You can surrender a planet to your teammate, but only when they are dropping ground forces on it. Your Ground forces go back to your home world.
- You combine everything you have to meet public objectives. Number of planets, planets of tech, resource and political spends ...
- You must complete secret objectives on your own. Your teammate doesn't count.
- Your team has one marker on the victory track. You gain victory points as a team and may accomplish each objective once.
- If one of the team members completes their secret objective those victory points go to the team.
- When picking strategy cards instead of going around the table with each person picking you go around and each team picks. So you will go around twice. each time one of the members of the team will pick. This is to stop the double intuitive effect. This would really mess up a game if using the first set of strategy cards.

You do everything else as you would normally.

This cuts the game time in half and is nice for games with new players since the will have some one to ask questions and help them play well.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Newby- what options for 1st game (short attention span)

artmark — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:33:45 +0000

by artmark

a big part of the strategy is setting up the galaxy, and doesn't take too long, so I would let the players set it up.

I would use the 8 updated roles from the shattered empire expansion. they should be available in posted rules on the FFG site. they are a lot better for game play then the ones with the base set.

If you are concerned about time for this first game (which will take a while to work through it). I would set a time limit, say 4 or 5 hours, then you finish the round you are on at the time limit. whoever has the most victory points wins.

good luck, it's worth the effort.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Newby- what options for 1st game (short attention span)

Gavrok — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:23:38 +0000

by Gavrok

Hi
Playing this for the first time with some friends...they are used to reasonably complex games but I want to keep game below 6 hours...any suggestions (without expansion)
I will set up a preprepared map if needed
Thanks
G

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

Santiago — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:20:10 +0000

by Santiago

Personally, I play without Distant Suns. It feels like it just slows the game down by distracting you from interacting with other players and gumming up the early-to-mid-game. I'd say that the interesting part of the game really starts when you're all up in each other's faces and contending for border planets, building up your defensive fleets until somebody decides that he might as well attack with his defenders. I'd even recommend the skip early turns option as a result of this, to get to the meat of the game faster, though there is a nice land-rush aspect to the early turns that this skips over.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

egoncasteel — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:38:22 +0000

by egoncasteel

Preset maps
There is no problem with the preset maps. In fact they are pretty fairly layed out. The problem is trying to use them in a face down game. The person laying out the map will have an obvious advantage, since he has a good idea of where everything is. Players that have placed on the preset will also have a good idea where things are.

Face down sensor range / tile peeking
We have talked about other ideas as far as being able to see other tiles when playing face down.

- If you activate a system that already has a ship in it you can flip/peek at all adjacent tiles.
- Adding a tech some where to to be able to look under one adjacent tile a turn.
- Hiring scouts. pay X to see a tile, or X*(tiles from your home world) to see under a tile.
- Slow going. if your ship is only traveling to an adjacent tile you can flip the tile and then choose to activate the starting tile instead canceling your move but not allowing ships to leave the starting system.

At this time we have never tried any of them out. Truth be told we have been playing random face down since 2nd edition. We like the drama it adds and the sense of risk. I have only played 1 or 2 games of face up 3rd edition. I didn't find them near as exciting. That is why I find it odd that to my knowledge no where in 3rd edition does mention face down as a way to play. I could be wrong maybe the have talked about it and I just missed it.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Variants:: Re: Does any one else play with the tiles face down?

thr33why — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:09:05 +0000

by thr33why

A bit of an old post I know.

how about letting players see the tiles adjacent to systems they control?

Even if they just peek and no one else gets to see them? that lets you plan a little better, but you still get to explore, and don't give information away to other players?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

thr33why — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 02:33:30 +0000

by thr33why

@ Egon.

What exactly is the problem with the preset maps?

@ Everone

With exploring a random face down map I was thinking that you might be able to see into any adjacent system off a tile you have a ship in. This would stop entire fleets being destroyed by red bordered systems, as you wouldnt move into them. You might even have them peek under the tile, so that other players remain unaware of what the tile is.

Anyone tried this?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

egoncasteel — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 02:00:09 +0000

by egoncasteel

A balanced map can be a bit of a problem. It mostly made up for by the fact that gaining attention in Twilight is often not a good thing. Luck out on the map board and next thing you know you everyone is watching every mood you make. Trade gos away, and the action card come rolling in on you. We play with with a pure random face down map.

There is a way to mitigate the problem if you don't want full random. Just make a stack of tiles for each ring and shuffle. That gives you a little more control. I would make sure to keep some hazards in each ring. If you can keep the number of hazards unknown even better. That means no one will know when the map becomes "safe". You want the map to feel dangerous and avoid safe areas.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

thr33why — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 00:34:54 +0000

by thr33why

I've considered the face down tiles. And I really like the idea.

I also want to use a balanced map. Basically because not all the players have the same experience with the game, and the last 2 times I've played I got resource poor words, and lots of bad tiles from a bad hand draw (which I may not have placed the best). =P So selfish reasons there!

I still managed to draw first place on the second game (ran out of time), but had no chance at all with the first.

I'm not sure there is any point using the face down tiles + a pre gen map, as at least a few players will know what is where anyway.

I suppose with the Distant Suns option you could just randomly place a token on a planet when it comes up. And artifacts would be in a random system, and if the system is blank, no artifact.

I think random tile down galaxy is something we might try later.

We have plenty of time. The club room is open all day/night... I might even set everything up the night before.. make things easier. So not worried about a long game.

As for snacks... we have a fridge stocked full at the club. so not prob there.

No phones is a good idea. Not sure I'll be able to enforce that though.

I'll probably not use sabotage runs then, ads complexity with little outcome.

Age of empire is when the objective cards are placed up. I've played a game like that and I really enjoyed it. You pretty much have to use Imperium II with that so... we will.

Thanks for everyones feedback!

We are going to have a great time!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

egoncasteel — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:30:01 +0000

by egoncasteel

Play with the tiles random and face down. It adds a whole new element to the game.

- You have to actually find planets not just fly to them.
- You may drive a whole fleet into a hazard and loss it.
- Trying to rush another player or Mechatall Rex is harder.
- You are forced to actually drive your ships around.
- Action counters become more important since you will have more fleets going to different places.
- Fear of hazard may make choke points later in the game.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Turn order in SE

Sarcasmorator — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:18:23 +0000

by Sarcasmorator

The Assembly strategy card offers the choice of taking the speaker token for yourself (if you don't already have it), or chooseing another player to receive it. Either way, you play a political card.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Turn order in SE

GazPAge — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:45:21 +0000

by GazPAge

I can totally look this up when I get home, but how does the turn order for picking strategy cards in SE change? Been ages since I played.

Thanks
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

UndeadViking — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:52:05 +0000

by UndeadViking

Most important options:

Plenty of snacks and drinks
Make sure you posess the only key to the exit of the room.
Confiscate everyone's cell phones.
Relax and enjoy 6 hours of gaming nirvana.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

halbower — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:39:34 +0000

by halbower

Marx09 wrote:

Statistically speaking, Sabotage Runs are suicide (1 out of 5 fighters survives the Outer Defenses, and only 1 out of 5 of THOSE will survive the inner ones, meaning 1 out of 25 will be successful... and if you have 25 fighters to throw at a War Sun, you're not really worried about a War Sun), but I can see their appeal and do plan to work 'em in.

Not true. Only 1 out of 10 fighters survive the inner defenses. Thus, it's 1 in 50 of performing a Sabotage Run.

The power of the sabotage run is not in its statistical ability to succeed. It's a desperation move. If someone is throwing a warsun your way, you might be able (2% chance) to destroy it with a fighter or two.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

hob69 — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:08:26 +0000

by hob69

Mistrial! Mistrial! I demand a recount!

...or something like that...

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

Marx09 — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:06:52 +0000

by Marx09

I just played a game with the Age of Empire variation and the Imperial II card... I like it more than the original Imperial card for the simple reason that it makes the game a bit *longer*, not shorter.
Theoretically, a game of TI with the Original Imperial card COULD be over in 5 turns... less, really, if there are easy Public Objectives that come up. Even if it's unlikely that anyone would pick the Imperial Card 4 or 5 times in a row, I don't like how artificial it is... you get points for accomplishing nothing aside from taking the right Strategy!

The "new" Imperial variant is better... it's frustrating to not be able to claim Objectives without it, but it makes the game a bit more tense.

Statistically speaking, Sabotage Runs are suicide (1 out of 5 fighters survives the Outer Defenses, and only 1 out of 5 of THOSE will survive the inner ones, meaning 1 out of 25 will be successful... and if you have 25 fighters to throw at a War Sun, you're not really worried about a War Sun), but I can see their appeal and do plan to work 'em in.

Haven't had a chance to use the rest of 'em yet... but I'm looking forward to trying 'em out!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

panzer-attack — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:14:52 +0000

by panzer-attack

Artifacts are good for speeding the game up and encouraging a bit of combat.

I normally use pretty much all of the options apart from leaders (which don't seem to add much to the game) and mines (which encourage turtling).

Is Age of Empires the option where you play with the objective cards face up? If so, I've never played it but I figure that'll also speed up the game.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: What options do you use?

godfeather — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:42:52 +0000

by godfeather

Is it time that bothers you? Then play to fewer points then. I have played to eight points before and it generally doesn't feel anticlimactic.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

Nogser — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:30:07 +0000

by Nogser

Neurosion wrote:
It looks like you may have missed the Errata that you can not claim any Stage II objectives until round 4 when using Age of Empire.

Thanks for the heads up. I thought there was something like that but couldn't find it in the rules beforehand. Fortunately it wouldn't have affected the outcome in this case as I could have claimed it the following round.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: What options do you use?

thr33why — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:46:13 +0000

by thr33why

I have a big 8 player game coming up next month and I was wondering which options people use.

These are what I was thinking of using

1) Race Specific Tech
2) Artifacts
3) Custodians of MR
4) Distant Suns
5) Pre made Map
6) Worm Hole Nexus
7) Age of Empire
8) Sabotage Runs
9) Varient Card Set with Imperial II

With original objective card sets.

We have all day to play. =)

Any suggestions?

I'm note sure I like the 1 VP with Imperial II, but figure it wont' come up to often?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

Neurosion — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:59:22 +0000

by Neurosion

It looks like you may have missed the Errata that you can not claim any Stage II objectives until round 4 when using Age of Empire.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Jol-Nar clarification

Hiroyoshi — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:50:16 +0000

by Hiroyoshi

Thanks!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: The Joys of Conflicting Card Rules

bleached_lizard — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:51:27 +0000

by bleached_lizard

Correct. There is a formal ordering stated in the rulebook (under "Action Cards", page 23).

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: The Joys of Conflicting Card Rules

GaryP — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:43:51 +0000

by GaryP

Mikael is correct. Either player could state they wanted to play an action card, and then the other player could respond that they would also like to play an action card. The player who is earlier in turn order would reveal and play their card. The other action card would no longer be playable, so the player would keep it unrevealed in their hand.

I agree that it is not terribly elegant, but it works for those rare instances like this.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Jol-Nar clarification

boris317 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:31:25 +0000

by boris317

Jol-Nar: The periods are there to denote there is more special power text on the racesheet.

Since the definiation of a combat roll has be clarified here the racial text of the The sardakk norr is Simply
"You receive +1 on your combat rolls." No need for the extra sentence or 2 that is on the race sheet now(since they are confusing).

So both races have all of their "combat rolls" modified.

combat roll: "Any instance in
which you roll a die and compare the result to a unit’s combat
value to determine whether or not an enemy casualty has been
inflicted"

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

sherron — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:04:12 +0000

by sherron

While I own Starcraft I have yet to play it. It seems to me the temperment of your opponents would be the key thing. TI appears more about the threat of war rather than war itself. Starcraft appears to be more combat orientated and rewards the attacker. So TI is about victory points and the means of achieving may involve war but Starcraft appears more of a direct conflict game with a economic engine included. Either way I would recommend seeking out a 4th player to get away from a 2 v 1 situation.

Thanks Nogser & Matt that was extremely helpful. I think they would like Starcraft much better. My family (the Herron side) came from Ireland. I will find a 4th I would bet that I would be the 1 that the 2 would gang up on.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Jol-Nar clarification

Hiroyoshi — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:43:46 +0000

by Hiroyoshi

Hmm so I've read the Erata and the question is around the elipses ".. ..".

My question really was what one of the two options since I have read those three paragraphs over and over again and there are two ways you can read it. Absolute or with substitution.

For example the Sardakk N'Orr line says:

"You receive +1 on your combat rolls." The sentence ends.

The Jol-Nar says:

"You receive -1 on your combat rolls.. .." Normally extra periods mean an open ending or half thought. IE The sentence is open ended.

Hence my question around the two sentences that can be interpreted.

A. "You receive -1 on your combat rolls." (Including PDS fire which happens before Space Combat). Sentence ends like the Sardakk N'Orr errata.

B. "You receive -1 on your combat rolls from all space and invasion combat rolls." (Excludes PDS fire which happens before Space Combat). Normal interpretation of a couple of periods is a substitution into it's previous location.

Sorry if it feels like I'm being dense. I just don't understand why they would put 4x periods. I understand phase 3. PDS fire, space battles and ground invasions. I just don't know how context of the Jol-Nar sentence is suppose to be taken.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

coolpapa — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:33:29 +0000

by coolpapa

Nogser wrote:
sherron wrote:
I was thinking of getting this game or Starcraft: The Boardgame to play with my teenage son and his friend. I was curious what are the strenghts and weaknesses of each? I see Twlight was ranked higher but was a tad bit more complex. Thanks

Hi Steve

While I own Starcraft I have yet to play it. It seems to me the temperment of your opponents would be the key thing. TI appears more about the threat of war rather than war itself. Starcraft appears to be more combat orientated and rewards the attacker. So TI is about victory points and the means of achieving may involve war but Starcraft appears more of a direct conflict game with a economic engine included. Either way I would recommend seeking out a 4th player to get away from a 2 v 1 situation.

Edit typo

Exactly what he said. As this session shows, TI is often a cold war in space - it's about saber rattling and threats. Starcraft, on the other hand, is a bare-knuckled throwdown.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: The Joys of Conflicting Card Rules

godfeather — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:36:52 +0000

by godfeather

If you want to be formal you have to announce that you play a card and other players can then decide if they want to play card(s) and they are then resolved player by player in initiative order. This is one of the things in the game that isn't that smooth.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: The Joys of Conflicting Card Rules

pethulhu — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:27:58 +0000

by pethulhu

i´d say the win goes to the one who claims his card earlier - maybe a matter of seconds, but I think ot will be clear on the table - either the emergency repairs go into action fast enough, or the ship is destroyed in one shot. I don´t see problem.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: The Joys of Conflicting Card Rules

Marx09 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:16:46 +0000

by Marx09

Hey, just a quick question that came up in our last game of TI:3...

One gentleman had a War Sun that had a hit inflicted on it. He clutched in his hand a card that allowed his Dreadnoughts and War Suns to "immediately" heal all damage.

However, his attacker held in HIS hand a "Direct Hit" card, which "immediately" destroyed any damaged War Sun or Dreadnought.

Which "immediately" wins? Does the guy get to heal his War Sun, or does the OTHER guy get to destroy it?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

Nogser — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:49:54 +0000

by Nogser

sherron wrote:
I was thinking of getting this game or Starcraft: The Boardgame to play with my teenage son and his friend. I was curious what are the strenghts and weaknesses of each? I see Twlight was ranked higher but was a tad bit more complex. Thanks

Hi Steve

While I own Starcraft I have yet to play it. It seems to me the temperment of your opponents would be the key thing. TI appears more about the threat of war rather than war itself. Starcraft appears to be more combat orientated and rewards the attacker. So TI is about victory points and the means of achieving may involve war but Starcraft appears more of a direct conflict game with a economic engine included. Either way I would recommend seeking out a 4th player to get away from a 2 v 1 situation.

Edit typo

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

hob69 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:58:49 +0000

by hob69

Yeah, pretty much how it went. I was rather frustrated by my SO though, which didn't require Mecatol Rex, for once, but did require me to destroy one of either of my two neighbours' LAST space docks and take the planet it was on. It was frustrating because I knew I couldn't get near you anyway and you built your spacedocks quickly, meaning I'd have to destroy all three. Rob, on the other hand, had only one - his floating spacedock at the home asteriod, for ages, but I was just far enough away that any move I made would telegraph what I was doing, so I kept hoping he'd become so entangled over on the other side of the galaxy that he wouldn't have the resources to defend his home. Alas, when I finally had to do something it did, in fact, telegraph what I was planning and alarmed him into installing a dreadnought fleet to protect the home planet (asteroid), making my attempt to sneak in useless. One problem is that the Universities aren't great on attack, and I didn't fancy my chances in a heavy combat situation (and didn't have any good action cards to help this time). I kept my attack fleet small enough to grab the dock if it was unprotected, hoping it wouldn't raise the alarm, but it wasn't enough to face down the dreadnoughts. I was also quite crippled by those low value planets to some extent when it came to building my own fleets, though having those privateers nab your stuff and give me half was a temporary boon. :)

Good game. A lot quicker this time.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: Speak softly and have a big fleet

sherron — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:56:19 +0000

by sherron

I was thinking of getting this game or Starcraft: The Boardgame to play with my teenage son and his friend. I was curious what are the strenghts and weaknesses of each? I see Twlight was ranked higher but was a tad bit more complex. Thanks

Session: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Speak softly and have a big fleet

Nogser — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:13:20 +0000

by Nogser

Our first game of TI3 left me hungry for a second go. Last Friday I got that chance and another memorable evening was had. The line up was:

1) Nicolas – Emirates of Hacan
2) Andy – Barony of Letnev
3) Niall (me) – Federation of Sol (1st speaker)
4) Harvey – Universities of Jol Nar
5) Rob – Clan of Saar

We played Age of Empire variant with 2 second stage public objectives revealed and with base game with Imperial Strategy II.

My Secret Objective – Control Mecatol Rex and have a space dock and 4 Dreadnoughts there

The map setup was kind to me; my sector was plentiful with planets with a nice juicy 2 planet system one step towards the centre from me and all the wormholes reasonably far away. Others had their issues, the Emirates home system was flanked by red bordered systems on both sides. The Barony and Saar home worlds had either end of wormhole B adjacent to their home worlds while the Universities sector was filled with lower value planets.

My initial plan had been take Technology and get Xrd drives 1st round but the sheer value of the neighbouring planets led me to take Warfare to claim 3 systems in the 1st round. From here I had an advantage that I would not yield for the rest of the game. Everyone followed the general plan, expanding, building and jockeying for position. The first Trade strategy card left me in a good position with a value of 5. Now to turn advantage to victory.

I figured I would become a target so set to mollify my immediate neighbour the Jol Nar suggesting borders, (mildly advantageous to myself of course) but offering the wormhole A planet that connected adjacent to his Home world and a guarantee of non aggression. Agreement reached, I grab Xrd drives and make a quick jump to Mecatol Rex. Ahh, says all the others, just a brief visit says I before you all take you turn. Saar growls so I say I’ll leave in a round and you and the Universities can sort have it between you. I take Imperial II and claim the victory point and go no to claim another for control of Mecatol Rex jumping to 3 and the lead. Hmm goes the table, it is alright says I you can all do the same over the next few turns. Next turn I claim a 2 VP card for control of 10 planets, still not a shot fired. I’ve gone with the political card and I busily make appreciative noises about my great cards. Now it is time to encourage the Universities away from my slightly weak flank. Look says I how I’m respecting our non aggression pact, those Saar boys are getting greedy and squeezing you, look how they have claimed that wormhole system we agreed was yours. The Barony and Emirates were a bit slower off the blocks as they were both 1st timers but it was time to keep an eye on them.

Here fate takes a turn and I know I will win. Saar launches an attack of the Barony through the wormhole and his fleet he had moved across the central space. I’m starting to sing inside. The Barony was just starting to look like they could cross the divide between us and lead to a full scale war, now he had an enemy and I could provide some helpful tactical advice on how to stop the invader. It was a powerful thrust by Saar and he claimed his Secret Objective for control of 4 planets with the same technology bonus but at a big price. Now at the same time I am preparing to hand over Mecatol Rex to either Saar or Jol Nar. I’ve only a token ground force and no fleet protecting the planet, first I play the action card Rise of a Messiah and suddenly I’ve got 12 extra ground forces across the map and crucially a second on Mecatol Rex. Oh sorry I say, needed them elsewhere, sorry about the inconvenience I’m sure you will be able to clear it, I promise to try and roll low. Suddenly the Emirates attack, a big fleet but no bombardment capability and only 2 ground forces. I roll well and now my planet is protected from my allies by the Emirates, “Oh Joy!” inside and sad face outside.

Hostilities erupt as Saar attacks the Emirates too. Double “Oh Joy” inside. I keep to the Political card and appear to do nothing while building up Dreadnoughts for my SO, slowly add a variety of Techs to score the two VPs for 5 Techs and 1 of each Tech. With action cards and high influence the Senate sings my tune, I even have usurper up my sleeve.

Next turn Saar tries to turn the galaxy upon me, but it is too late and he has no friends. My fleets menace the board in sheer volume of plastic. I’ve blocking destroyers in systems to stop any sudden moves and my Home world, Jord, is well protected with cruisers and fighters and ground forces. The mark of Cain is upon him and no one listens or believes they can defy the might of the Federation of Sol.

Now for battle, I scheme to activate Mecatol Rex but the Emirates fleet vanishes before me, diverted from my path to deal with the Saar, Nicolas not willing to risk destruction, anticipates my move. I fill the system with plastic and smile, nearly there and play the Usurper action card (extra influence) to groans from around the table.

I sit back and wait only a space dock needed for my SO and 7 victory points on the board. Nearest rival is Saar on 5. I choose Diplomacy and target the Barony who now has presence on the board and Warfare in his hand. That should keep him focused on vengeance. I invite Saar to try his luck. The professors of Jol Nar having analysed the situation, worked out my SO and calculated the odds, decide it is not wise to antagonise their future overlord. The Emirates too continue their war with Saar.

I build my space dock and bits elsewhere, my reserves have War Suns and precious little else. I claim my Secret Objective and the second stage 2 Public Objective to get to 11 VPs. Victory and only 2 combat dice rolled!!!

It was fun to watch the events unfold particularly the infighting among my rivals when I thought they would be focused on me. No doubt we will all learn from it. New plans will be required for our next session - hopefully in a few weeks.

A pre laid out game is a great help to getting the game finished in a reasonable time. Play time was 4 hours with a half hour for the new players to familiarize themselves having previously read the rules. I used random.org to radomize the starting positions and choice of races.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Jol-Nar clarification

sigmazero13 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:15:48 +0000

by sigmazero13

Indeed. The Jol-Nar are one of the few races that gunning for War Suns doesn't put them out too much - and even Jol-Nar-strength War Suns are a force to scare ANYONE.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

godfeather — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:16:43 +0000

by godfeather

I suggest using the wormhole nexus to avoid that problem.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Jol-Nar clarification

Bubslug — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:01:02 +0000

by Bubslug

Good answer! About sums up the definitional aspect of die rolling: "combat," "pre-combat," "space battles," "invasion combat," etc.

The Jol-Nar are still a powerful race whose advantages in tech research very quickly outweigh their initial combat disadvantages...

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Jol-Nar clarification

boris317 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:32:33 +0000

by boris317

from faq 2.2. Page one

Combat Rolls
The term “combat roll” is inclusive. It covers any instance in
which you roll a die and compare the result to a unit’s combat
value to determine whether or not an enemy casualty has been
inflicted. This includes PDS fire and all pre-combat abilities
that are compared to a unit’s combat value.
FAQ and Errata, Version 2.2.1 – Updated 3/20/2009
Page 2
• The Sardakk N’Orr special ability text should read: “You
receive +1 on your combat rolls.”
• The Jol-Nar special ability text should read: “You receive -1
on your combat rolls.…”
Effects that add to or modify results during “Space Combat”
should be interpreted as during “Space Battles.” Effects that
take place during “Space Battles” or “Invasion Combat” specifically
make reference only to variables within the Space
Battle Sequence and the Invasion Combat Sequence. Thus,
if an ability grants you +1 to your dice during Space battles,
this bonus is only applied during step 2 of the Space Battles
Sequence (“roll combat dice”), and does not affect any other
rolls, including pre-combat effects, PDS, bombardment, etc.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Jol-Nar clarification

Hiroyoshi — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:17:09 +0000

by Hiroyoshi

From the Erata v2.2:

The Jol-Nar special ability text should read: "You receive -1 on your combat rolls..."

Does that mean:

A. "You receive -1 on your combat rolls." (Including PDS fire which happens before Space Combat).

B. "You receive -1 on your combat rolls from all space and invasion combat rolls." (Excludes PDS fire which happens before Space Combat).

Thanks!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:58:08 +0000

by GazPAge

Fair enough, it's not that I think it's hard for them to grasp, but it's one more thing for them to remember. Isn't it less likely to get a completed worm hole if you use all tiles?

THanks
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

sigmazero13 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:54:17 +0000

by sigmazero13

GazPAge wrote:
Thanks for all the input. Anyone from the US have any views? Also, what would you suggest I use for tiles if I don't want to use special rules. Just the base set, or mix them in?

Thanks
Gary

The preset maps are fairly balanced, which some may find boring; however, it definitely speeds things up in getting started.

As for the tiles themselves, I'd just mix in everything. None of the expansion tiles are too bizarre. The Ion Storms are fairly simple, the Refresh abilities aren't too complex (or you could just ignore them), and the Trade Stations are very simple. Nothing that stands out as being "hard to grasp" for new players.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:45:50 +0000

by GazPAge

Thanks for all the input. Anyone from the US have any views? Also, what would you suggest I use for tiles if I don't want to use special rules. Just the base set, or mix them in?

Thanks
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:44:20 +0000

by GazPAge

Thanks for all the input. Anyone from the US have any views? Also, what would you suggest I use for tiles if I don't want to use special rules. Just the base set, or mix them in?

Thanks
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: 2nd Time Playing, or "The Dangers of Accurate News Reporting"

Marx09 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:24:00 +0000

by Marx09

It's a little like Risk in that way (although not quite as significantly biased). The numbers tend to favour attacking over defending.

If you have to identically sized fleets, statistically either side could win 50% of the time, right? But the truth of the matter is that people rarely attack unless they have at least SOME kind of advantage, be it numerical or cards or what-have-you. As a result, the defensive fleet is almost always at least SLIGHTLY worse-off, and this slight difference at the start normally makes for pretty big differences at the end. I think in our game of TW, a defensive fleet only held out one time out of all the attacks launched throughout the game (so, one time out of... ten? Fifteen?)... ground troops (backed by PDS) were more successful, so occasionally even after the skies had been cleared the planet would successfully defend.

Now, this isn't meant to invalidate defensive fleets... but they're really more psychologically effective ("Oooh, that's a lot of ships... where else could I attack?") than they are ACTUALLY effective. PDS, on the other hand, are pretty useful in general... but it's a numbers game, and since you can have a maximum of 6, even they're pretty pointless against a well-equipped war fleet. Useful for maintaining your claim on a planet long enough for your OTHER fleets to swoop in to the rescue, though.

Long rambling post; sorry. Take home message is that normally attacking will result in better odds than defending.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: 2nd Time Playing, or "The Dangers of Accurate News Reporting"

jwb3 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:57:08 +0000

by jwb3

Marx09 wrote:
...remembered something important (defensive fleets are never as useful as invasion fleets)...

And why is this?

(Newbie question; TW3 is a game I've only played twice, would love to play again but may never get the chance (too long!), and can't justify buying.)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: 2nd time playing, and the sky was full of ships.

Marx09 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:26:11 +0000

by Marx09

Propaganda! Lies! Half-Truths propegated by Ugly-Fishbowl-Wearing Heathens!

For an HONEST recap of the events, I must direct people towards the Xxcha-News-Agency-Approved Documentation:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3549451

And, for the record, I never had more than 2 Spacedocks... and the Technology Expense card was the first political law to be inacted (in Turn 1), thereby granting you unsurpassed technological superiority.

Lastly, your lemonade sucks, and tastes strangely of arsenic.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: Re: 2nd Time Playing, or "The Dangers of Accurate News Reporting"

bill_galloway — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:49:27 +0000

by bill_galloway

It's interesting to see what we each remembered about the game. I saw defensive units as having a great advantage, while my cruisers and other Omega-class ships had a much lower value-for-cost than PDSes and War Suns.

My session review (naturally more accurate and entertaining than your own) will be linked to here upon moderator approval. By the way, how's your sister? Did she mention me?

I did enjoy the game, and appreciate your setting up the event. I look forward to mercilessly grinding your species' females and broodlings under my shock troops' heels again soon.

EDIT: I did not read your session report until mine was already submitted for approval.

Session: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: 2nd time playing, and the sky was full of ships.

bill_galloway — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:46:46 +0000

by bill_galloway

Well it's four p.m. on a Saturday afternoon and we're suspended inside a concrete bunker 110 feet above ground level - something which my city friends call an a-part-ment. Call it what you like, I'm from out in the sticks and it just doesn't seem natural to be up so high and look down on the tops of trees, I tell you what.

There are four of us around a table in this dining room just a block over from Yonge Street, Toronto. My Purple Jol-Nar, Paul's Red ~~Sakkra~~ Sardakk, Marc's Green Xxcha and Dave's Blue Mindnet. Remembering my win in our first ever game, my opponents place a Nebula and Supernova in my general vicinity. This is to be our second game ever, a couple of months after the first. We will play with 10 Objective cards laid out as our timeline.

Paul is new to the game, but very smart. He will need to be watched. Dave usually wins more than his share of our games of Caylus, Citadels, and Snail's Pace Race. He has the wisdom of an ancient Kung Fu master and the raw intelligence of someone who has figured out how to cheat on the SATs. Marc, the owner of the game and our gracious host, has vowed personal bloody revenge against me for my earlier win at TI3 using the flawed Imperium card. The new Imperium II card will make this a slower game. (In fact, we will not finish until 1:30am).

Throughout the game, Marc will constantly remind everyone that I am our group's only TI winner, that I am not to be trusted, that they should ally together. Were I a lesser man, not destined for greatness, I state my views here on some of Marc's more obvious physical deficiencies and lack of social graces. But I will not, nor will I waste my breath repeating half-truths and innuendo regarding his questionable business dealings and rich widow aunt who suddenly went missing. Instead, I may just state, in passing, the plain facts that his sister's face cracks mirrors as she walks by and Marc's own pet goldfish ran away to find a more humane master. You may draw your own conclusions, unbiased by any personal opinion I may have about the man.

My and Marc's less aggressive races are separated by the belligerent insect-men and heavily armed cyborgs. Still, I feel like I have the time I need to conduct research. I know for a fact that Dave will build up a great navy yet wait to sweep out into the galaxy in turn six or seven with overwhelming force. This is not only his personal style, but his production-oriented ~~Meklar~~ Mindnet faction encourages it. Paul will play it cautiously, as new players do. I don't know what Marc will do, but I am confident that his terrible luck with dice will keep him occupied. My own plan is to use the Politically powerful nearby planets to sway the Galactic League votes in my favour. My secret objective of surrounding Mecatol with Dreadnaughts and a spacedock seems impossible. But I know that when life gives you lemons, victory only comes through anonymously serving poisoned lemonade to the Fruit Assignment Committee.

The first few planet-grabbing turns pass smoothly. I compose a tinny-sounding Conqueror's Theme to cheerfully, disarmingly hum with every fresh invasion: "Dee dah-DEE dee deet-deet dee". Everyone laughs, reminded of Looney Tune Marvin the Martian playing the bugle. Phase 1 of my counter-programming is complete. Paul and Dave soon forget that I am our group's only TI Champion.

Because I have few mineral-rich colonies (nothing above a resource level of 2) I always make sure to have a few Space-Bucks on my card to pay for a Secondary Technology action in order to activate my free Primary Tech action. By the end of the game, I will have invented 15 different technologies. A strange Political twist mid-game makes Green tech cheaper and all others dearer, so I arrange to research the Greens first and get whatever Yellow or Blue I need for free with my Species Ability. Equalizing my terrible military penalty is one of my research priorities, after increasing the speed of my colony ships. (In hindsight, as the only player with 2 starting Carriers, I should have devoted one to an early invasion of Mecatol and used the other as planet-grabber.)

My worst moment happens early: a vicious directive by the Galactic Council of Brainy Elders is handed down. All players summarily lose Victory Points. Paul and Marc - having zero VP each - had conspired like the craven Silurian Sun-worms they are to reduce the grandeur and glory of the Jol-Nar and Mindnet factions. Dave and I drop from 5 and 4 respectively. What a waste of my two turns on the #8 card. Mentally, I vow to not rest until I see their sensory apparatuses on electro-pikes.

The Imperial Planet is not invaded until turn 5 or thereabouts. Marc brings more than 2/3 of his total fleet into its orbit. This seems to shatter the uneasy peace that until now has seen our planets unmolested. Dave has as predicted built a huge navy, but has not left a 2 hex radius around his homeworld. He'll probably be the first to construct a Death Star. He never attacks until he feels entirely secure. I lovingly cradle my Direct Hit Action Cards, imagining the Trench Run in my head. He senses something, but upon turning his gaze upon me I am already innocently examining Marc's homebrew rules on interstellar travel and trade, where the vagaries of lightspeed or slowboat travel can have trade goods arriving before they are ordered or else being collected upon arrival as revered antiques. I softly whistle Dave's favourite childhood lullaby to put his sub-conscious at ease.

Meanwhile, Marc has miscalculated - placing the Supernova and Nebula near me was a hindrance to my expansion, but it also meant that there was a feeling of open space and lebensraum in his zone of influence. After seeing Marc's huge fleet surrounding the most valuable planet in existence, Paul and Dave both head first in his direction instead of mine. Whether they do so unconsciously or by choice is unknown. Also, his many planets without so much as a token Ground Force must look inviting to Paul's hideous, ravenously hungry ichor-dripping Space Roaches. Disgusting, stomach-turning creatures. It is at this point I begin to regret agreeing that we all would wear representational costumes and prosthetic make-up. Also, this old unused fish bowl of Marc's makes it hard for me to hear what the other players are saying about me.

In turn five or possibly six, Locutus of Dave is indeed the first to construct a War Sun, but my own battlestation, the USS Spiky Bowl, follows soon thereafter, boosting the firepower of my fearsome fighter armada. Level IV drive and Advanced Fighters are scarily effective. Especially when I now have *two* "Direct Hit" action cards to use against War Suns. My fighters are quickly becoming my most powerful and plentiful tool. In fact, Dave and I have used up all the neutral fighter tokens between us. Marc grittily hangs on to Mecatol even as Paul and Dave conquer his border worlds. It must be his Secret Objective. He cunningly plays a card on Mecatol which not only lasts indefinitely, but gives him double the voting power Mecatol usually grants. Soon, many Political agendas being to favour loathsome Green fleets and worlds.

Finally around turn 6 or so, I have all the tech I want, and can turn my Space Bucks toward building a proper reserve fleet. My first big fleet threatened Marc's Mecatol garrison, but that was a feint. As soon as Dave sends his War Suns into Green space, I attack his Science worlds. I need to raise my resource total above 10. However, I did not account for Dave's incredible military production (planet 0.0.0 is crazy-productive) and I am forced to retreat. Damn Deep Space Cannons. They are too good a tech to be so easily gained, especially when combined with multiple PDSes per world. Thus, I must now set my sights on what I first thought would be impossible: conquering the biggest jewel in the sky: ~~Orion~~ I mean Mecatol Rex.

My first attempt on turn 7 to conquer Mecatol fails when Marc's Planetary Defence guns turn my Space Marines into a thick yellow vapour. Turn 8 I then send in 10 Fighters and the Spiky Bowl to bombard the PDSes and even the odds a little. Finally I land troops on Mecatol, and next turn am able to build my last Space Dock there (long after everyone else had 3 production centres) to fulfill my Secret Objective. Now I have 8 VP and the Initiative card. Turn 10 comes up, and I can claim the #8 card. I don't need to buy anything, as my fleet of 4 Dreadnaughts, Cruisers and innumerable fighters stave off Dave's mighty fleet, which only halves my Mecatol defenders, and his Carriers are eliminated before they can even orbit "my" Imperial Planet. Control of Mecatol and fulfilling the 10 Resources Available to Spend Objective grants me 2 more VP for the win.

My reign is now total. As Emperor, we rename our empire "Psilon". Once the military is firmly in hand, we swiftly move to gain control of the Galaxy's communication and entertainment industries. Soon a cult of personality centering on Our Imperial Person as a Liberator and a "Wondrous Being of Light" is marketed and disseminated to all work camps and re-education centres, forestalling rebellion. We announce "increases" of the soma ration to 10mg per day. Records showing that the ration was previously 20mg are quietly smothered. Implanted "ID" microchips are needed to obtain food and transportation on most non-Jolarian planets, and thus nothing moves or eats without our "Public Health" stormtroopers and jailers knowing about it.

Dave has long since gone home, and Paul and Marc are disappointed with my nationalization of the comfiest chair and all the remaining snacks at the gaming table.

I offer them some lemonade.

Session: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Sessions:: 2nd Time Playing, or "The Dangers of Accurate News Reporting"

Marx09 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:57:28 +0000

by Marx09

On Saturday, I managed to once again muster the troops for a game of Twilight Imperium... only the 2nd time I've ever played. I love the game, but it's a bit of a time commitment. And we had one new player this time... which increases the time a little bit, as I'm sure you all know... but I'm extremely happy with the results!

This report will rely pretty heavily on my spotty memory... next time I'm taking notes! Honestly!

Pre-Game Pre-Setup Setup
After my last marathon game of Twilight Imperium (which took a combined total of 10 hours to finish!), I knew that some advanced warning would be required to set up another game. It took almost 6 months to arrange, but I managed to find 3 other players willing to plop down and have a go at the game... and I figured that while 5 or 6 would be a little better, 4 would make for an interesting game anyway.

Now, unlike last time, I was familiar with the rules (and quickly refreshed my memory while the Fresh Mea... *cough* the new player was given the gist of the Strategy cards) and we had fleets that were already cut out and ready to use! Unlike last time, where we had to cut the pieces out before playing (as Bill put it "We made it into a little game... we counted how many pieces we could cut off the sprues in an hour, and then tried to beat that the next hour!"). We decided to do the random race allocations this time, just to mix it up a bit.

The Victims
Bill
Yes, the same Bill that we played with last time... the same Bill that wins a full 40 to 50% of everything we ever play. A great guy with excellent taste in games (he introduced me to Settlers, Caylus, Kingdoms, Citadels... and so on, and so forth), and a guy that eventually I will figure out how to beat at something. He was assigned the Universities of Jol-Nar, to which he immediately assigned the Marvin the Martian Theme Song (for those of you unfamiliar, it sounds like a very cheery "Dee duh dee dee deet dee dee!")

Dave
Dave, another of my core group of gamers. He wins the other 40 to 50% of the games we play (with Dave and Bill both claiming innocence... "I don't win more games, HE wins all the games!"). Dave railed slightly at being referred to as a "cut-throat, back-stabbing bastard" in the last Session Write-up I created... and I admit that it's not a fair description of the gentle-hearted conniving strategist. For the record, he's not a back-stabber... he's more of a front-stabber. He was assigned the L1Z1X Mindnet ("Cool! I get to be the Borg!").

Paul
Paul is an old friend of Bill's and an all around good guy. Perhaps the most foul-mouthed Japanese man I've ever met (but that's not saying much... we're talking a TINY deviation from the norm, here), and also one of the most travelled humans alive. I played a 15 minute game of "Name a Country Paul Hasn't Been To", and despite having the first half of the Animaniacs "Countries of the World" song memorized... I still lost. Paul received the Sardakk N'orr ("The whats? Oh, like the Sardaukar... got it.")

Hiro Protagonist
I, of course, was the 4th player. I love Twilight Imperium... I could happily spend days playing it. One game every 6 months... well, it's non-ideal, but it's better than nothing and I'm not going to inflict the game on people that don't want to play it. I received the Xxcha Kingdom... a large variation from the Barony of Letnev I played last time, but acceptable to me. With the races assigned, we began assembling the galaxy...

It's a Hundred Million Light-Years Side to Side...
Dave and his L1X1Z took the 11 o'clock spot next to the Universities (at 1 o'clock), who were next to Paul at 5 o'clock and myself at 7.
Metacol Rex took it's place at the center, and armed with systems we began to assemble the universe. The inner ring was completely devoid of planets (one nebula and one asteroid field, 4 empty sectors), and each of our home-worlds were surrounded by packs of planets. By weird coincidence, the Sardakk N'orr and L1X1Z homeworlds were surrounded by relatively low-influence, high resource worlds, while my own homeworld had many influence high, low resource worlds... the Universities were blessed by a fair balance of both. The worm-holes all ran between Dave and Bill... fine by me, since wormholes represent a difficult-to-predict aspect of the game, and I was only too happy to have them relatively far away from "my" area of space.

Also noteworthy, we replaced the standard Imperial Strategy with the "replacement" Imperial Strategy from the Shattered Empires expansion (although we used nothing else from the set... I want to get at least a few more games of the "normal" Twilight Imperium in before I go and make too many sweeping changes). The Public Objectives included two Metacol Rex objectives (1VP for holding it, 3VPs for holding it AND the surrounding systems), two objectives for trade goods (1VP for 6, 2VPs for 12), two objectives for technologies (1VP for having 5, 2VPs for having 9), 1VP for having all your spacedocks on the board, another VP for holding 3 planets of different Technological Specialities, and 1VP for spending 10 Resources. Obviously, not in that order, but you get the idea.

On Your Marks, Get Set... Obliterate!
The first few rounds saw an unsurprising expansion into neighbouring territories, and each of our empires slowly grew. One of the most noteable events (perhaps of the game) occurred in the 1st Round... a Law which decreased the cost of Biological Technologies to 5, and increased the price of all OTHER Technologies to 10! For the Universities and the L1X1Z, this was a small annoyance... they both had 4 techs already, and resources a-plenty to throw at getting more (to say nothing of the Jol-Nar ability to get free techs), but for myself and the Sardakk N'orr, this would be something we would struggle with throughout the game.
By the end of round 3, there had been no confrontations and little else of note besides fleet build-ups and technological advancements. The Sardakk N'orr had the largest empire (7 planets), followed by the Universities and my Xxcha with 6, and lastly the L1X1Z with 5.

"We Aren't Invading... We're... uh... Okay, We're Invading."
The first confrontation occurred in my sector of space... the system adjacent to my homeworld closest to Paul's rabid hordes of red ships. On turn three, my fleets still engaged in capturing ("liberating") neutral planets on the L1X1Z-side of my empire, the Sardakk N'orr captured an of-little-note world (1 resource, 1 influence) far outside their sphere of influence but shockingly within mine. My homeworld Defence Fleet (the honourable "Fighting Turtles") immediately leapt forward to engage the evil Sardakk fleet (which was aptly named "The Cowardly Fleet of Craven Evil"... at least by the Xxcha News Agency, the only credible news source in the galaxy). The battle was brief (the Sardakk Invasion was a single Carrier group with fighters and ground troops, while my Defence Fleet included destroyers, cruisers, fighters, and a carrier), but bloody... I lost all my fighters before wiping out his space forces. Sadly, my ground troops were unable to crack the ugly hides of his ground troops, and another turn would pass before a carrier with additional troops could be dispatched to... appropriately "re-educate" the Sardakk ground forces (dubbed the "Hiding Sneaky Bastards" by the Xxcha News Agency) in the error of their ways.

"Wait... HOW Many Votes Do You Get?"
Meanwhile, my other fleet had rushed forward to snag Metacol Rex (thanks to a brilliant application of a Flanking Speed Manoeuvre), and rapidly set up shop... a spacedock, 3 PDS, and countless ground troops (okay, "six" isn't quite countless... but considering my resource-strapped empire, it was pretty impressive anyways!) supported my orbiting destroyers, fighters and cruisers. An Usurper card gave me an extra 6 votes (even when I had Metacol Rex exhausted!), and I happily hunkered down for the inevitable invasions to start from my petty and jealous neighbours.
We had reached turn 5, and the Universities and L1X1Z had commanding point leads due to their early technological superiority, but I was in firm command of Metacol Rex and the Sardakk N'orr had yet to appear on the scoreboard despite controlling the most worlds. I figured that I could use the Diplomatic Strategy to hold off the numerically superior L1X1Z while directing my fleets to... "re-educating" the Sardakk N'orr. The Universities were only a threat to Metacol Rex, and with their shared border with L1X1Z I figured they would be involved in bitter infighting (since the L1X1Z couldn't attack ME... and they DID have that big ol' fleet just sittin' there...). To top it all off, my unsurpassed political power granted me the "Minister of War" Law, allowing me to inflict a single automatic hit on my enemies. What could possibly go wrong?

And then the L1X1Z built War Suns.

From Riches to Rags? No. From Empire to Ashes.
Between Turn 5 and Turn 7, several noteable things happened.
First, the massive L1X1Z fleet decided that Metacol Rex was a less important target than my homeworlds. My poorly-defended flank (my ships mostly sitting on either Rex or towards the Sardakk N'orr worlds) was too tempting a target for Dave... he took the Diplomacy Strategy before I could get my hands on it, and invaded. While I managed to inflict massive damage (I destroyed two cruisers, over a dozen fighters, two carriers, a dreadnought, and one of his two War Suns... leaving him with a damaged War Sun and 2 ground troops), he managed to scour my few ground troops off the surface of my worlds and claim them with his ground troops, destroying my primary Spacedock... while I was able to destroy his War Sun the next turn with my tertiary fleet (the primary being on Metacol and my secondary having been obliterated in his attack...) and claim my homeworlds back, it took time and resources away from other matters... like the Sardakk N'orr. They said something about "Unfair representation of our Empire in Xxcha media" while obliterating my tertiary fleet and started bombarding my homeworld.

Really, a pretty harsh response for accurate reporting, if you ask me.

Meanwhile, the Jol-Nar Universities descended on my primary fleet around Metacol Rex like a plague of Literature Graduates armed with Plasma rifles... the fight was again fierce, but I had already expended the majority of my brilliant strategies in my (failed) homeworld defenses, and they managed to wipe out my starships with only moderate losses. However, my ground defenses proved to be more than a match for their landing forces, and the world remained in my control.

And then the Jol-Nar built their War Suns.

All Hail the Emperor! Dee duh dee deet dee dee dee!
In the end, I had a combined fleet of zero ships (no fighters, no spacedocks, no nothin') and a combined Ground Defence Force of 1 (one) soldier sitting out on one of my colonies and zero PDS anywhere. Sure, I still nominally had 5 planets to my name (at least, the little green flags indicated they were still mine), but it was pretty moot.
Interestingly, I managed to get 9 VPs... and was a mere 6 trade goods away from victory! But Bill's fleets were unquestionably the master of the skies, with both Dave and Paul's fleets relatively-decimated by their invasions of my worlds and unable to mount a successful counter-attack on Bill. Paul received his 2 VPs for his Secret Objective by decimating my homeworld (or, more accurately, my final spacedock in orbit of my homeworld), Dave revealed that he INTENDED to capture an undefended Scientific world near my homeworld to claim his Secret Objective of holding 4 technological worlds of the same type, but forgot when presented with an opportunity to attack my homeworlds (Oops?), and Bill won by his control of Metacol coupled with his huge technological superiority (Dave, his closest competition, had 10 techs to Bill's 14).

The final scores (Bill 10, Me 9, Dave 7, Paul 5) didn't really reflect the realities of the situation, but that's okay.

Aftermath
It was an awesome game! I know it sounds like I should be upset with how things turned out, but I'm really not at all... I think I haven't had that much fun losing anything in YEARS! Sure, I was basically wiped off the map... but gosh darn it, my troops fought well (with the noteable exception of all my PDS, which may have been slightly more accurate if aimed by a blind drunken armless guy with a serious muscle twitch), the political arena was deep and complex... really, I had a great time.
I have learned an important lesson (always... ALWAYS put a world close to Metacol Rex with relatively high resources to support invasions... spacedocks on Rex are basically useless), remembered something important (defensive fleets are never as useful as invasion fleets), and can't wait to play again!

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Newbie Question about Imperium II

Quizoid — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:47:00 +0000

by Quizoid

Got it. Thanks! I didn't catch the either/or and was thinking both/and.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

ERPriest — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:38:24 +0000

by ERPriest

godfeather wrote:
We usually play with one objective open before the first round. If you play with Imperial II, why not play with the Age of Empire variant in the main rule book, since everyone knows what to archive during the game?

Avoid Clan of Saar, since they have special rules applied to them. You might also avoid Naalu, since the 0 initiative can make people confused. There might be some worse races, but it is not as bad as some players suggest.

I also suggest that you don't play with leaders and distant suns, at least the first time.

This is exactly how we have done it for the last two games we played with newcomers.

1. Use one of the official preset maps. Substitute trade stations and Hope's end with either single or double systems. No artifacts.
2. Use Imperial II with the other basic strategy cards. Play the Age of Empire variant. This allows everyone to see all of the objectives in advance and also provides a time clock with a fixed and known number of rounds. Better for newcomers, we think. You could choose instead to use all of the other II cards, and maybe even the SE objectives, for a more aggressive game, though we don't.
3. Take out Naalu and Saar and all SE expansion races. Choose race and starting positions randomly.
4. No other options for the first game (leaders, race-specific techs, distant suns, etc.)

Good luck. My last game, 6 players with 4 newcomers, took almost 12 hours, so try to keep the game moving and people focused on their objectives.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

godfeather — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:10:58 +0000

by godfeather

We usually play with one objective open before the first round. If you play with Imperial II, why not play with the Age of Empire variant in the main rule book, since everyone knows what to archive during the game?

Avoid Clan of Saar, since they have special rules applied to them. You might also avoid Naalu, since the 0 initiative can make people confused. There might be some worse races, but it is not as bad as some players suggest.

I also suggest that you don't play with leaders and distant suns, at least the first time.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:38:35 +0000

by GazPAge

Sorry, I'm also planning to drop the racial techs. Any recommendations on which races to include (would still like to do a random selection), that won't be too hard for new players or unbalance the game.

Thanks
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:36:40 +0000

by GazPAge

Thanks for all that.

Any views on using Imperial II vs the SE card? I figure with new players, it might be smart to have the VPs coming in each turn, but I suppose there is always the Imperial Rex card anyway.

Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

godfeather — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:45:36 +0000

by godfeather

Exchange them with a Multi-Planet System.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:40:31 +0000

by GazPAge

Ok, thanks.

I don't really want to use the trade station, or hope's end. Can I replace them in the example maps?

Thanks
Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

godfeather — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:36:49 +0000

by godfeather

MattDP wrote:
Use the preset maps from the FFG website. Login and download them - there's a suggested layout for every play number.

I don't think you have to login anymore in order to get the contents. I logged out and it went fine to aquire the document.

GazPAge wrote:
Would you recommend using all of the SE cards? I didn't really like the look of Warfare II, but perhaps it is good.

It makes for a more combat oriented game and if we play a four player game we usually play with both warfare cards and the card that doesn't get selected will get a bonus chit on it. I didn't like the look at it either at first, especially the high alert token which I think looked a little fiddly, but when you learn to play with it, it's not very hard either. If you want you can play with the warfare card supplied with the game.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:23:59 +0000

by GazPAge

Cool, thanks. I probably should have looked on the website first.

Would you recommend using all of the SE cards? I didn't really like the look of Warfare II, but perhaps it is good.

Gary

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

MattDP — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:23:25 +0000

by MattDP

Use the preset maps from the FFG website. Login and download them - there's a suggested layout for every play number.

Personally my favourite combination of strategy cards is "all the II's". So use a "II" replacement - including Imperial II - for every card that has one, and use the original for those cards that don't. It seems to result in a more aggressive game while keeping some sort of a lid on play time, thanks to a regular injection of some SC-based VP's into the game

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Preset maps and strategy cards

godfeather — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:20:42 +0000

by godfeather

The official maps work great if you want to have a preset maps. They are available at their web site www.fantasyflightgames.com%2Fffg_content%2FTwilight%2520Impe...">url= http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imp...]direct link[/url.

I recommend you use the Shattered Empire specific cards for the game.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Preset maps and strategy cards

GazPAge — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 09:04:25 +0000

by GazPAge

Hi,

I may be playing TI3 this weekend. There will be 4 or 5 players, and I will be the only one has played before (twice). I do have Shattered Empires. The guys are all pretty smart and role players so can handle complicated rules, but I don't want to ask them to build a galaxy when they don't even know what is good. Can anyone recommend any preset maps?

In addition, which combination of strategy cards would you recommend I use?

Thanks
Gary

New Image for Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition

pabula — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:12:09 +0000

by pabula

I upset my daughter with this PDS fire...

]]>

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Newbie Question about Imperium II

azuredarkness — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:12:41 +0000

by azuredarkness

The Imperial II primary has you choosing between two options:
The first gives you a chance at some VP, and everyone else get a chance at the secondary.
The second allows you to execute the secondary for free, and denies it to everyone else.

The secondary is available to others if you choose the first option.

Thread: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Newbie Question about Imperium II

Quizoid — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:30:19 +0000

by Quizoid

I played the game for the first time yesterday with Bureaucracy. It was a good time.

I was looking over rules today, and I read Imperial II.

Why does it have a secondary ability with a cost you don't have to pay and no one else can use? Why not just roll it into the primary ability? Are there special effects that prevent people from using secondary abilities? Are there special effects that allow people to use disallowed secondary abilities?

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: General:: Re: Suggestions for a 5-player PRESET map

ERPriest — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:32:52 +0000

by ERPriest

We ended up with six at the last minute, so in the end, I didn't need a 5-player preset. Thanks for all of the advice anyway.

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Reviews:: Re: A Dream to Some, A Nightmare to Others

Binars — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:10:28 +0000

by Binars

yep thats what caught my eye too!

"Come father. Let us embrace for the last time." (As Mordred sish-kebobs King Aruther with that wicked halbard. Guts hanging off the end while protruding out the knigs backdside)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Reviews:: Re: A Dream to Some, A Nightmare to Others

Pnumekin — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:01:34 +0000

by Pnumekin

"A Dream to Some, A Nightmare to Others"

Nod to your Excalibur reference. :)

Reply: Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition:: Rules:: Re: Rules question: Moving ground forces to a different planet on the same hex

malloc — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:46:04 +0000

by malloc

The answers to the OP are yes. and yes.

You need a carrier to move guys even in the same system between planets, you also have to activate the system either with a tactical or X-fer action. The carrier does not have to start int he system but one must end there.

The house rule about space docks is one that I would not play with myself. Placement of a SD on specific planets matters and the ability to shuffle guys about to whatever planet is also in the system is too strong for defending multi-planets systems.

-M