The Settlers of Catan | BoardGameGeek

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Why Settlers of Catan is the GOAT

manukajoe — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:34:51 +0000

No there's very little text; only on a couple of the development cards - just explain those cards before you start.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

maxdrawdown — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:30:58 +0000

I am disappointed by the AI which I find a fair deal weaker than on the xbox implementation. Otherwise, allows to scratch the itch, decent (but not great) iphone implementation of the board game.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Some ideas for 5/6 player catan

johnny_cruiser — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:36:43 +0000

by johnny_cruiser

Website is back up again. Sorry for any inconvenience.

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

joshuakessel — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:29:00 +0000

by joshuakessel

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Catanbox open

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

joshuakessel — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:26:28 +0000

by joshuakessel

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Catanbox

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Exclusive discount for BGG members

Nekura — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:53:10 +0000

by Nekura

As soon as I get the paycheck from my latest side project, I'm picking one of these up. (Probably early December.)

I have a really nice wooden storage case (the one Mayfair was selling at GenCon a few years ago) and a nice wooden play board I picked up on eBay, but they don't travel well. This is the perfect case for going to cons or my weekly boardgame meetup.

I'll post a review as soon as mine arrives. I had seen your original posts and was afraid this hadn't made it off the drawing board. Congrats on finally steering this amazing project to retail!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Exclusive discount for BGG members

LimboLance — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:29:41 +0000

by LimboLance

Boy does that look pretty.....

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Exclusive discount for BGG members

cold_fuzion — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:51:35 +0000

by cold_fuzion

Well... this just makes me wish I had about $61 extra sitting around. Good luck, looks like a neat product.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Exclusive discount for BGG members

EasyESV — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:06:00 +0000

by EasyESV

The BGG community was helpful in designing the new gaming surface and storage case for the Settlers of Catan. Thank you!

For your help, I'm offering $10 off as many boards as you would like. Use the promotional code "BGG" at www.settlersaccessories.com to receive the discount. The promotion is good now through Jan. 31, 2010.

The boards are on their way to our fulfillment house right now. They should be available for shipping around Nov. 26, but you can order yours now. Orders received on or before Nov. 26 can take an extra $5 off with promo code "Pre-order." Orders will ship within 24 hours of being put into inventory.

Once again, thanks for your help.

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

trodge — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:50:26 +0000

by trodge

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Our latest Mega Catan Board...

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Market Prices

Wraith — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:45:17 +0000

by Wraith

Rusty Gamer wrote:
The point of these weird and wild variations is to have fun and not to take the game too seriously, even if it is tried just once to say what would happen.

Eh. I don't need to play variants like this to know what sort of effect they have on the game. Working it out from analysis is pretty simple. I'd rather spend my time playing a game that presents some interesting game experience.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Market Prices

Rusty Gamer — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:16:15 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

Oops, I got mixed up with the specialist ports - I meant the other way round.

Anyway, I've been thinking about it, and with using the poker chips instead, this gives me a variation on this whole idea.

Forget about the needing 3+ in trading to affect the market.

Instead, you use 20 poker chips only. You start off with 4 on each resource. This represents 4:1. Now say you trade 4 lumber for a brick. Then a chip is moved from the lumber to the brick. To trade for lumber is now 3:1 and to trade for brick is now 5:1.

This makes it simply. The formula is:

Trade A x PriceB to get B. Then move one chip from A to B.
There must always be at least 1 chip on a resource (representing 1:1) so when there is only 1 chip on A, there is no market change.

For the 3:1 port, you trade with A x Maximum(PriceB-1,1) to get B. This still affects the market in the same way.

For specialist ports, you trade A x Maximum(PriceB-2,1) to get B, where A is the specialised resource. Trading with specialised resources DOES NOT AFFECT THE MARKET.

The aim of the variant would be a strategy in market manipulation. Whatever you calculate to trade, the market may have changed by your turn. I think it would be a fun variation to play, even if it ends up a little strange.

The point of these weird and wild variations is to have fun and not to take the game too seriously, even if it is tried just once to say what would happen.

File: The Settlers of Catan:: Settlers of Catan - Resource sheet EN A4

fatum — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:11:50 +0000

by fatum

Settlers of Catan - Resource sheet EN A4 for Board Game: The Settlers of Catan ]]>

File: The Settlers of Catan:: Kolonisten van Catan - Resource sheet NL A4

fatum — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:11:44 +0000

by fatum

Kolonisten van Catan - Resource sheet NL A4 for Board Game: The Settlers of Catan ]]>

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Market Prices

Wraith — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:10:17 +0000

by Wraith

Rusty Gamer wrote:
For ports, how about you always have a +1 advantage for the 3:1 and a +2 advantage for specialist ports if buying the specific resource?

Standard port rules give an advantage when selling the given type of resource, not when buying it. This reverses that advantage, which causes a major shift in game strategy. (2:1 ports will now be sought by those without access to a give resource, not by those who produce excess of it. There would now be no means of turning excessive production in useful resources, but deficiencies would occur more rarely. I suspect that would place even more emphasis on dice rolls over strategy than is usually the case.)

Making 2:1 ports reduce the cost when trading away a specific resource would strongly de-power ports. Port users are relying on bank trades more heavily than other players. Their trades will drive the prices for similar trades they want to do in the future up. As they use bank trade more than non-port traders, their opponents won't generally counter the increase in trade prices, so over time the port users will render their own ports almost useless.

Really, a similar effect occurs with 3:1 ports.

What's the aim of the variant, anyway? It's an extra complication to the rules, but I don't see much in the way of interesting additions to the strategy of the game. How is the extra complication supposed to improve the game experience?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Market Prices

Rusty Gamer — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 04:30:32 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

For posts, how about you always have a +1 advantage, whatever the deal?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Variant - VP Chit on the 12s and 2s

Rusty Gamer — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:59:29 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

Good idea. :)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Solitaire: Race Against The Destroyer.

Rusty Gamer — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:53:24 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

Clarification: It's in the context of the throw.

In a general throw - your turn - if the number matches where the robber is, the token is flipped over and the robber returns to the desert.

When a 7 is thrown, IT IS NOW THE ROBBER'S TURN. The dice are thrown again for the robber. No resources are collected on this throw. The dice are thrown to move the robber. If the robber is on a tile with (say) the number 8, and there are other 8s on the board, and an 8 is thrown, then he must be moved to one of the other 8s. Otherwise, if there is no other 8, he is returned to the desert.

I've got ot say, having playtested this, it's a little boring but that may be JMO.

Alternative rules for the robber (faster pace):
You do not need the robber on the board for this.

When the 7 is thrown, lose half rounded down if more than 5 cards. Lose 1 resource card at random. Then throw a SINGLE DIE and act according to the result.

1 - Hill is destroyed
2 - Pasture is destroyed
3 - Mountain is destroyed
4 - Field is destroyed
5 - Forest is destroyed
6 - Lose 1 unplayed development card at random

For 1-5, the player choses which tile is destroyed. If all tiles for that terrain are already destroyed, then player goes "Phew - missed!" and wipes his brow.

However, at this point, if a tile is about to be destroyed, an unplayed soldier/knight may be played. Both dice are thrown. If the number matches ANY of the numbers on the terrain set for destruction, the destroyer has failed.

eg: A 5 is thrown. A forest could be destroyed, but a soldier is played. One forest has a 3, two other forests have a 9. A forth forest is already destroyed so the number token is irrelevant. If either 3 or 9 is thrown, no forest is destroyed, otherwise 1 forest must have its number token flipped over

Regardless of the sucess or failure of the soldier, it is added to the army. You must have at least 3 soliders more than the number of destroyed tiles to have largest army.

The soldier cannot be played to stop losing an unplayed development card.

Initial testing was done with a 2 distance rule, not a 3 so 15 VPs may be too high. However, I found the 2 distance rule too powerful for one player.

Another possiblity with the distance rule id you keep the distance of 2(which I just came up with) is if you have 2 settlements/cities accessing 1 tile, and they are just 2 away, then the third spot is immediatly taken up with a neutral settlement using another colour.

Please understand, none of these alternative rules have been play tested. I just came up with them in the last day or so.

Feedback welcome.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

Spaceman — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:54:35 +0000

by Spaceman

I bought it. It has definetly been worth the money for me.

Yes on rare occasions it has crashed when launching a new game, but reopening the program a 2nd time has always worked without a 2nd crash. I had never played before but had heard good things about the game. I've got a serious addiction to the point I've had to recharge my phone to finish a game. (only occurred at the end of the day with multiple hours of playing multiple games)

As someone who had never played the game before but has a backround in similar boardgames I would reccomend the purchase to others.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Solitaire: Race Against The Destroyer.

elementary — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 14:40:02 +0000

by elementary

Sounds fun. I'll give it a try.

There is one thing that seems a little muddy in your rules.

Rusty Gamer wrote:

If a number is thrown on which the robber resides, and there is at least one other identical number on the board, the robber must be moved to one of the others there. Otherwise, the robber is returned to the desert.

Rusty Gamer wrote:

when the number of the token on which the robber resides is thrown, that token is flipped over. The tile is now useless, a wasteland. The robber is immediately returned to the desert.

I'm pretty sure I understand it, but let me make sure. When the number of the tile that robber currently resides on is thrown, that tile's number is flipped, destroying the tile. If there is still another active tile of that number, the robber is moved to that tile. If that was the last of that number, the robber is moved to the dessert. No?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Variant - VP Chit on the 12s and 2s

Juliusan — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:34:13 +0000

by Juliusan

Rusty Gamer wrote:
The idea is to only be able to claim the chit once the correct number is thrown. If the chit moves around, how do you know which tile it came from in the first place?

You could place unclaimed chit in the middle of the tile next to the number and when it is claimed, it could be placed on the same tile but next to the settlement/city of the player, who claimed it. I took the idea from one on-line implementation of Settlers, where this approach was used to place the trader from Cities and Knights.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Number chips lost

sinnistar — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:11:48 +0000

by sinnistar

Thanks so much, I made an account on here just to thank you for this information.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Solitaire: Race Against The Destroyer.

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:21:16 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

Here's a solitaire version of Settlers you might want to try.

Goal: Try to get standard VPs before too much land is destroyed by the robber.

Rules remain as standard except where otherwise mentioned.

Set up as per usual. Place robber on desert. Place two settlements, each attached to two roads and receive resources from second.

Throw dice, collect resources and build as you normally would UNTIL...

THE DEADLY 7 IS THROWN.

When this occurs, lose half your resources rounded down if there are more than FIVE cards in your hand (standard game is 7).

Then throw again specifically for the robber.

If a 7 is thrown he remains in or is returned to the desert.

If a number is thrown which is no longer on the board, the robber remains where he is.

For all other cases, whatever number is thrown, the robber is moved to a tile with that number token - player's choice, strategy is required here.

If a number is thrown on which the robber resides, and there is at least one other identical number on the board, the robber must be moved to one of the others there. Otherwise, the robber is returned to the desert.

No resources can be received from the tile in which the robber resides. In addition, there is a danger of that tile being destroyed.

Normal play resumes. However, when the number of the token on which the robber resides is thrown, that token is flipped over. The tile is now useless, a wasteland.

If there are two destroyed tiles adjacent to one another, any road built on the intercept collapses and is removed from the board, even if it means that orphan roads remain. This can potentially also break up the longest road. No more roads may be built there.

When all three tiles surrounding a settlement/city are destroyed, the settlement/city collapes and is removed from the board. No more settlements or cities can be built there.

A soldier can be used to return the robber back to the desert. To claim the largest army, not only must you have played ta least 3 soldier cards, but the number of soldiers played must EXCEED the number of destroyed tiles.

Special Rule - the MONOPOLY development card. When you play this card, decide on the resource you want and throw two dice; take the lowest number of the two. This is the number of that resource you collect.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: The famous WELFARE variant

Wraith — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:53:14 +0000

by Wraith

radynski wrote:
Elgar wrote:
Since you dont have to reveal VP dev cards, they dont count towards your welfare exchange rate. In one turn you can go from a visable 4 VP to 10, if you have 2 hidden VP dev cards, + flip the 3rd soldier for largest army, and take longest road.

Not really. You can only play one Development card per turn, and you're trying to play 3 all at once.

Yes, really. Revealing a victory point card to claim the win does not count as playing it.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: The famous WELFARE variant

radynski — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:47:23 +0000

by radynski

Elgar wrote:
Since you dont have to reveal VP dev cards, they dont count towards your welfare exchange rate. In one turn you can go from a visable 4 VP to 10, if you have 2 hidden VP dev cards, + flip the 3rd soldier for largest army, and take longest road.

Not really. You can only play one Development card per turn, and you're trying to play 3 all at once.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Catan for 2 or even 1??

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:29:54 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

How about simply changing the distance rule so that you must build 3 away? Or have a smaller map?

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Security Guard

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:15:47 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

Use a new piece from somewhere for a security guard.

Whenever a 7 is thrown, you now have the choice of moving the robber, moving the pirate, or moving the security guard.

You can not move the security guard to the same space the robber or pirate currently resides (we play a variation where pirates can be in ports).

In whatever tile the security guard is placed (land or port), that tile is no longer vulnerable to attack by the robber or pirate.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: The famous WELFARE variant

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:07:24 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

Our group has come up with a simple variant on this.

Whenever the dice is thrown in which NO ONE receives any resources, the player whose turn it is receives one free resource of his choice.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Super Robber

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:57:37 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

We have the pirate blocking sea lanes, fishing ports, and trading harbours. However, you have to physically move the pirate onto the port or harbour piece, in which case he is NOT blocking any shipping lanes.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Variant - VP Chit on the 12s and 2s

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:47:56 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

The idea is to only be able to claim the chit once the correct number is thrown. If the chit moves around, how do you know which tile it came from in the first place?

Alternatively, the chits could remain on the tiles and whoever is dominant takes that VP into account when calculating whether or not they can declare themselves to be the winner. But that would remove the random dice throwing element from the whole thing. This way, it's possible that noone ever receives those VPs.

Perhaps your version of this idea would be better with the VP chit on the desert. Then whoever is dominating the desert has an extra VP point.

However, with the variants our group plays, that would unbalance what we use the desert for. For every level of access to the desert (settlement=1, city=2) a player has, he gets to hold that extra number of cards in his hand before the robber can affect him. eg: If a player has a city and a settlement accessing the desert, then he gets to hold 10 cards in his hand before the robber can slash his holdings by half. This varaint works a treat with us.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Variant - VP Chit on the 12s and 2s

celiborn — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:34:36 +0000

by celiborn

How about allowing the chit to be stolen away if somebody else becomes more dominant? That would make this similar to the Longest Road and Largest Army cards.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Variant - VP Chit on the 12s and 2s

Rusty Gamer — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:16:39 +0000

by Rusty Gamer

This variant can be played with just about any version or expansion of Settlers.

Wherever a 12 or a 2 number token is placed at the start of the game, add a VP chit.

A chit can only be claimed after the appropriate number is thrown. It is claimed by the player with the most dominant access to that tile. Each player still claims the resources for that tile as per usual as well.

To calculate dominant access, settlements=1 and cities=2. Total for highest number.

If there is a tie for dominance, the chit cannot be claimed at that time.

This gives more value to the 2s and 12s and motivates building stratagy around such oft neglected tiles to get those valuable VPs.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:06:47 +0000

by maksum

Wraith wrote:
maksum wrote:
So yeah, maybe we should just avoid games where someone can be locked out near the beginning?

Who's "we"? Some of us are capable of not getting ourselves almost completely locked out of contention early in games like Settlers (especially in a three-player game, in which space really isn't that much of an issue), of concluding the game in markedly less than an hour on the occasions when somebody is obviously losing, and of playing out the game in a fashion that displays our skill and sportsmanship if we were to be locked out.

Maybe you should avoid games where someone can be locked out near the beginning.

Wow, you just really have a chip on your shoulder against me don't you. I just meant my group.

Man. You just keep looking for opportunities to make this personal against me, and I just don't get why.

I think if you knew me, how I play games, etc, you wouldn't be doing this. Somehow I obviously portrayed myself as someone I'm not, and you've made it your mission to strike at me and let me know what a sore loser, and unskilled player I am.

Perhaps I offended you somewhere in this thread. If I have I apologize. It certainly wasn't intentional.

I'm finding several of the points in this thread interesting and am enjoying the discussion. But the personal attacks are bumming me out. Can we drop that portion of it? Or have I really just touched a nerve and need to take more heat on it?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Sessions:: Re: Catan: Out of Comfort Zone

judoka — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:04:24 +0000

by judoka

Yes, you are right. We were introduced to more serious and interesting board gaming as well but one is never sure about the reactions of other people. But we will try and see. I think so our guests will take it well.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Wraith — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:12:16 +0000

by Wraith

maksum wrote:
So yeah, maybe we should just avoid games where someone can be locked out near the beginning?

Who's "we"? Some of us are capable of not getting ourselves almost completely locked out of contention early in games like Settlers (especially in a three-player game, in which space really isn't that much of an issue), of concluding the game in markedly less than an hour on the occasions when somebody is obviously losing, and of playing out the game in a fashion that displays our skill and sportsmanship if we were to be locked out.

Maybe you should avoid games where someone can be locked out near the beginning.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Use of soldier?

superbgg — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:05:24 +0000

by superbgg

Correct. The only use of the soldier (or knight in some editions) once played is to contribute to the 'Largest Army'. Get three cards down before anyone else = get this card and the 2VP to go with it (until someone else has more soldiers played).

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Use of soldier?

rich10 — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:00:19 +0000

by rich10

I am just learning to play this game. I am sure the following is a very naive question, but at this point it is confusing to me. Let's say on one turn I play the soldier card. I assume that I move the robber and steal a resource just on the turn I play the card and cannot do the same (move a robber and steal a resource) on subsequent turns even though that soldier card is out in front of me. I cannot play that same soldier card multiple times. Correct?
Thanks.
Richard

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Sessions:: Re: Catan: Out of Comfort Zone

wanderm — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:13:31 +0000

by wanderm

judoka wrote:
Nice to read about your positive experience with Settlers. In about three weeks time we are going to have a non gaming family over and will introduce Settlers to them. I really wonder how they will take it.

I would bet quite well! The theme is strong, it's friendly but still competitive, and the negotiations are intuitive. It's a good Euro to hit the table, if you like that sort of thing. It's not a gamers game, which is reassuring.

My story turned out to be that one could introduce it at a time unrelated to gaming, to an untried audience, and have fun!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Sessions:: Re: Catan: Out of Comfort Zone

judoka — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:42:55 +0000

by judoka

Nice to read about your positive experience with Settlers. In about three weeks time we are going to have a non gaming family over and will introduce Settlers to them. I really wonder how they will take it.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Storing Catan game board pieces

personwholives — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:25:07 +0000

by personwholives

If you have 3rd edition or earlier, I recommend: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/15294

I made a set of these to store the base game hexes, and they are very nice. I'm considering taking the time to make some more for seafarers, C&K, and the 5-6 player expansions. I just haven't yet. They start to take up more room, so you can't store them in the base game box, but get another nice box and you can keep it all organized, too.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Storing Catan game board pieces

EasyESV — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:14:58 +0000

by EasyESV

Saej wrote:
Where's the link for that box?

www.settlersaccessories.com

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

drunkenKOALA — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:57:58 +0000

by drunkenKOALA

A good diplomat negotiates with as little emotion as possible. Good politicians and businessmen do trascend their emotions. If I were playing a negotiation game, I would aspire to be more like them, not less. But this may very well be personal preference.

For once he does that, he's just "pretending" to have fun so that player B can have his fun of winning.

That doesn't really fly. It's not other players' responsibility to make sure that you are having fun, because that could be any number of unreasonable things. What if I have fun only if I win, does that mean you should let me win on purpose? Because if you beat me, then you are not allowing me to have an enjoyable time now are you?

Changing the game into something else because you can no longer have fun with the original game, when other players are still trying to play the original game, is the definition of poor sportsmanship in my opinion. It's like going to a movie with your friends, and halfway through the movie you ask them to all leave because you don't want to watch the movie anymore. If you cannot sit through the possibility that you won't enjoy the movie, then don't go.

I agree that both players A and B are ruining each other's fun for the sake of their own fun. But they are not equivalent. One honors the original game, the other doesn't.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

cpf86 — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:23:33 +0000

by cpf86

ronaldinho, while i understand and agree with your form a game theory point of view, i would like to point out that you have missed out human emotion in your analysis. what you have said will only make sense when we are talking about economics which has a set of simplifying assumptions, and human emotions are thus eliminated. however, we are talking about everyday gaming experience with humans who are not trained to partition their minds nor transcend their emotions when gaming. heck, the reason i play is because i want to feel good and wants to have fun, which is all in all emotions to begin with.

Thus, i would disagree with your definition of what is the true gaming spirit. Mind you, i agree that A is in the wrong in this particular scenario, but at the same time, i think that having only 1% chance of winning is too little to demand someone to "pretend" he's winning. For once he does that, he's just "pretending" to have fun so that player B can have his fun of winning. I believe gamemanship is more than just playing with only the rules in mind. gamemanship is about respecting your fellow players and allow everyone to have an enjoyable time. It's what's gaming is all about. In this view, both B & A had violated gamemanship, which is to allow all parties to have fun.

The situation would have been different if it was in a tournament. In a tournament, it's an understanding that every player goes all out to win. If you are cut off, you should only blame yourself. If one start to kingmake in a tournament, he's denying his opponents a fair competition. In this case, to respect other players is to respect their right to have a fair competition. Taking revenge by king making is definitely against gamemanship.

That's my 2 cents to add to the discussion. just to clarify before i make any enemy, i see the points ronaldinho had tried to raise. I'm just adding in the emotions dimension and not to refute his post entirely. cheers.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:12:44 +0000

by maksum

I think Zimeon and drunkenKOALA both make good points.

At the end of the day I'm thinking at the point that Player A is locked out I would NOT want to be:

- Player A (obviously - having to wait to lose for the next hour)
- Player B (playing a 2-player game knowing a player is bored)
- Player C (same as C)

At the point that Player A decides to change his objective and take down Player B, now playing a "game" he can win, I would NOT want to be:

- Player B (so now it's two against one? that's not fair)
- Player C (Ok, so now if I win it means nothing)

And as soon as you realize Player B is ticked I would NOT want to be:

- Player A (Wow, I was just being playful, didn't know you would take it seriously)

So yeah, maybe we should just avoid games where someone can be locked out near the beginning?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

Tistu — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:55:55 +0000

by Tistu

No, make one of your not so friend buy it. :devil:

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

Balak — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:46:41 +0000

by Balak

]]>

Catan from the robber's perspective

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

drunkenKOALA — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:19:23 +0000

by drunkenKOALA

I agree with your points but I have a couple of comments. All of them are based on the fact that A is completely, utterly and hopelessly out of the game, and can't win no matter what.

According to whom? Player A?

If he has 1% chance he should play for it.

When the one you are screwing with is so downtrod that there is no reason for him to have self-interests to win, his self-interests will very naturally turn into taking YOU down with him.

When I sit down at a table to play a game, I expect that everyone at the table has one and only one self interest: trying to win. If your self interest at any point, for whatever reason, turns from trying to win into taking someone down specifically, you are playing for something else that doesn't really belong in the proper game. It's really no better than setting out to do that at the start of the game. If something isn't okay at the start of the game, it remains so at any point during the game. It doesn't just magically change because of what happened.

If you have 1% chance of winning, you should play for that interest. If you have 0% chance of winning, you have no interest. The point is, the only thing you care about is whether you win or not. If that is the case, the fact that you are now shut out and have a 0% chance of winning would make you indifferent to either player, because you don't care who did it or how it happened, the only thing you care about is that it did happen and now you can't win.

Now you might say, but I do care about who did it. To which I ask, why? That's not a facetious question. Seriously, why do you care? Why would you get satisfaction from watching player B lose? Do you bear a grudge, took it personally? Seriously, given that you cannot win anymore, what would you care about? Nothing at all is an option. It doesn't have to be revenge. To harbour on the past or against a specific player, instead of focusing on the present situation, is the definition of a sore loser to me. You are in the situation you are in now, does it matter who did it to you? Would that change anything?

Caring for anything other than winning is unjustified, period. If you cannot win, then in this game you have no interest. If you want to allow an interest for revenge, then you really should allow for everything else as well, from ending the game sooner so he can catch a movie, to helping out his girlfriend because that'd be in his self interest outside the game. Because really, at that point you are playing for something outside the game, for some other kind of satisfaction that is separate from winning. How can you justify one and not the others? If it is okay to throw winning out the window and start playing for something else, some other kind of satisfaction, then anything goes. You can't say one reason is more legitimate than any others.

Doing what A did was in his best interests. He made sure that B would think twice before screwing with him in that manner in the future.

First of all, now we are talking about metagaming which I look down upon. I look down upon it because in every game one plays, one should play with that game in mind only. I really might as well tell Cindy before the game starts, I'll throw this game to you and you throw the next game to me. That would be metagaming as well, played properly and better. You may argue that you don't do something as flagrant as that. To which I'd argue that it doesn't change the fact that you are metagaming, and just because you are doing it poorly doesn't justify it any more. It's like saying, I am going to metagame just a little bit, in such an inefficient way that it hardly hurts.

And second, lets think about whether these kinds of tactics actually work. What if player B, in the next game, went all out attacking player A. You know, to make player A think twice about making player B think twice about attacking player A. What is player A to do. Make player B think twice about making player A think twice about making player B think twice about attacking player A? It goes on.

I'd reply: "Go ahead and try." In a multi-player game, good luck hitting on everyone else all the time.

A game that would allow for this sort of play, that you can single-handedly make everyone else around the table lose, would be a very shitty game indeed. In fact, I'm not even sure it would be a "game", so it's a pretty moot point.

The point is you hit the first player who disobeys your orders, and let someone else win. You know, metagaming. Next game, you do it again if you need to. Until everyone has learnt their lessons, and they just all roll over and die to let you win because they knew if they even tried to win, they'd just lose with you.

You are right, it wouldn't be a "game," it is "metagame." I would think that refraining from such childish behaviors would be a moot point but apparently it is not.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Zimeon — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:43:04 +0000

by Zimeon

I agree with your points but I have a couple of comments. All of them are based on the fact that A is completely, utterly and hopelessly out of the game, and can't win no matter what.

drunkenKOALA wrote:
Player B cut off player A because at the time, it was the best thing to do (possibly), because anytime you can eliminate a player from contention, you have to consider it.

You also have to consider the retaliation coming. And making a move that will COMPLETELY shut the player out of the game means that the only option you're giving him is screwing YOU for the remainder. When the one you are screwing with is so downtrod that there is no reason for him to have self-interests to win, his self-interests will very naturally turn into taking YOU down with him. Makes perfect sense to me.

drunkenKOALA wrote:
If player A reacts by doing things that are not in his self interest, then he is being unreasonable and a sore loser, and I would ask him if he was still trying to play the game at all?

It depends on what you define as "the game". It IS in his self-interests to bring his adversary down. If you can't win, you can at least take down the guy who killed you.

I don't think it's wrong to shut another player out of the game. Go ahead, do it. But if you hit him so badly that he can't recover, don't expect him to sit silently amassing points while you win. Expect him to hit you with all he's got, including other players.

Based on that, I don't think A is a sore loser. B was the one starting to whine about how people played.

I don't think you can compare that to someone playing Puerto Rico with corn because they like yellow. A was playing to win, until he couldn't possibly win any more. He took the only remaining option which is to screw with the other player(s). And naturally, he hit the guy who took him down. What else would you expect?

I mean, seriously. You can't play a game that includes screwing with the others, and expect that players at all points will ONLY pursue the road that will yield them the most points. Then you're only playing with uninteresting robots. Players will hit each other. If A hits B, then B will hit back. Natural.

Sometimes a player (let's call him Jack) will sacrifice points to stab at the leader, even if it puts him in a vulnerable position, hoping that player Mike won't use this vulnerability but instead go on, as a "thanks" for hitting on the leader. Sometimes Mike WILL use this opportunity anyway. Would you blame Jack for NOT trusting Mike not to stab him the next game? I wouldn't. Some people hate meta-gaming, but reading your opponents and knowing their personalities is a large part of these interactive games, so there will be a spoonful of "Aha, he stabbed me here... he's deceitful and by my next game I will have to be careful". To not learn from prior gaming experiences with certain persons would be downright stupid.

Doing what A did was in his best interests. He made sure that B would think twice before screwing with him in that manner in the future.

drunkenKOALA wrote:
What if I announced to all my opponents, if you don't let me win I will go out of my way to make you lose.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

drunkenKOALA — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:53:18 +0000

by drunkenKOALA

elementary wrote:
It appears many gamers just don't "get" negotiation games. Part of the game is playing to the human emotion, and the resulting play, of your fellow gamers. Part of it is being a salesman, and finding those mutually beneficial trades, but a huge part of negotiation games is that every player at the table has a significant say in who gets to win. It is the winner’s job to appease his fellow players in a way to works to his overall advantage.

I love that some of you would totally screw an opponent, even if the move is to your advantage, and effectively turn the them and say, "Now, even though I have obliterated your chances of competing, I expect you to play the remainder of the game making strictly self-beneficial plays, and treating me no different than any other players at the table."

Thanks Chief, we’ll see how that works out for you.

A better player would be able to gauge a likely rebuttal scenario, and decide whether or not the move is truly advantageous. If you want to play a strictly formulaic and strategic game, play chess. Quite frankly, what I like about Settlers is exactly what I hate about chess.

Chess is a great game by the way.

There is a chinese saying that goes: there is no eternal friend, and no eternal enemy. Today we fight, tomorrow we can be allies. Or vice versa. Look at England and France, United States and England, United States and bin Laden, etc. And how do these nations make their decisions each time whom to side with? Based on the situation at the time, and whatever is in the country's best self interest. It would be petty to the point of laughable, to hear Russia say that it is going to attack Germany because they backstabbed them in the last war. The only reason Russia is going to attack anybody, is if it thinks it will be in its own best interest.

That's how real negotiation and diplomacy works. You are right, many gamers don't get it.

Player B cut off player A because at the time, it was the best thing to do (possibly), because anytime you can eliminate a player from contention, you have to consider it. It was in player B's best interest to do so. If player A reacts by doing things that are not in his self interest, then he is being unreasonable and a sore loser, and I would ask him if he was still trying to play the game at all? What happened happened, it's all done with and you move on. That's what happens in real life, especially when the stakes are high: you move on. Is all your revenge going to bring back your settlement? No. What does player A gain by it? Possibly the satisfaction of seeing player B lose. But at this point he really isn't playing the game anymore is he? Because when I sit down to play a game, I expect everyone to play for the winning condition as dictated by the rules. I wouldn't want to play with player A for the same reason I wouldn't want to play with a player who chooses to plant corn in Puerto Rico because yellow is the prettiest color.

There's a fundamental difference between what the two players did. Player B did what was in his best interest, and player A did not. Now one may say, because of what happened, player B didn't do what was in his best interest. But then that is really backwards isn't it? What if I announced to all my opponents, if you don't let me win I will go out of my way to make you lose. The moment someone tries to win, they lose, and I with him. By that logic, it would be in everyone else's best interest to make me win, except it isn't either, so it's a no-win situation for them. In game theory, that's called an "unreasonable threat." When the time comes for you to follow through it, it'd be in your best interest not to. According to game theory, players are expected to not follow through it, and the other players are expected to expect that and act accordingly, because at the end of the day, the most reasonable play is to assume that your opponents will make the most reasonable play as well.

Now you may not care about all these technical game theory crap, but it is used in politics and economics and players do behave like it especially when the stakes are sufficiently large. Which brings us to a point: the stakes in a game of Catan isn't large enough to prevent these types of petty revenge. If it were, you bet your ass that player A wouldn't give a shit about who cut him off and look at how he can win now. Now this leads to another point, a point on sportsmanship. I believe it is sportsmanlike, when you sit down for a game, to pretend, even though it isn't true at the end of the day, that winning the game is the only thing that matters. Because without such "pretending" on the players' part, games simply don't work. It's like playing RPG with someone who refuses to believe the "story." I wouldn't want to play a boardgame with someone who doesn't "believe" in the win condition, as written in the rulebook.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 04:17:46 +0000

by maksum

Wow, getting a bit heated :) name calling, insults... got a bit more than simple opinions didn't I?

Sorting through the low-blows and hostility another good point someone brought up is what about player C? Yeah, good point. I've actually been player C before, and thought "oh boy, this will be fun" (sarcastically). When I was (this was on bsw) I rushed the game as fast as I could so we could get another start. Player C can't take much pride in a victory, and yet does he just turn away all trades? Ok, that pretty much nullifies the point of a negotiation game. So yeah, now it's no fun.

Let me clear something up (if anyone cares.) This is not how I play and this is not a scenario I look for so I can annoy people for fun. It was just an interesting occurrence that I thought raised a couple of interesting questions. 99% of the time I take games so lightly, and have much more fun discussing interesting options in a game with all players than putting all of my efforts into winning.

Some of my comments were made in this same sentiment of fun, but as they're being responded to with such negativity including comments about my lack of skills, then they obviously aren't being conveyed correctly.

Anyway, not that it matters anyone reading this, but if gaming isn't fun for everyone playing, I wouldn't want to be involved.

Just seems that some are concluding otherwise.

Oh, and no, I didn't just sit there and hand out all of my resources, but did build out (though very little - I'm tellin' ya, I was really backed into a corner :) )

Ok, just wanted to get that out (blocks more rotten tomatoes)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Sessions:: Re: Catan: Out of Comfort Zone

Jayolas — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:39:01 +0000

by Jayolas

If it were me, I would never try for Caylus!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

cpf86 — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:00:29 +0000

by cpf86

interesting view from Travis, initially i was under the perception that B was the total ass*ole and whiner. well, he still is a whinner and i think he could do better, but your points on A is very valid too.

I guess it all boils down to the extend he king make. if taken to the extreme where he just donate every single resource to C, then it's a real fun spoiler for all 3 party. (if i were C, i would tell him to stop it after 2 or 3 of such trades) otherwise, if done in a fashion like Sinha has describe, it'll be a very fair play i feel.

As some had said, gaming is negotiation, and in this case, i feel that both B and A are at fault. Sure, A was a soreloser, but B was also not sensitive to A's need. since they are friends, they should have known that A is the sort of person who will king make once he's out of the contest. Since they are having a game for fun, he should have put priority on fun instead of winning. were this a catan tourney, then it's a different story. B would be absolutely right and A should be banned from the tourney.

interesting how my view from A being right (at the initial reply) to A being very wrong now :P

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

CoffinDancr — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:16:37 +0000

by CoffinDancr

]]>

The woman on the 3rd edition cover did not scream "family game." One family I played with decided to take modesty into their own hands.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Wraith — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:29:23 +0000

by Wraith

maksum wrote:
Wraith wrote:
So, were you just looking for ways to kingmake, or did you first look for ways to beat him?

Yes, looking to beat him BY kingmaking :devil:

Obviously, that's a no. Kingmaking is having somebody else beat him, not you. If you'd first looked for ways for you to beat the player who cut you off, my opinion of you wouldn't be so low, but you haven't even been able to tell me that you looked for such options.

From your descriptions of play, it sounds like petulant kingmaking is your first choice when faced with adversity. I don't have a problem with kingmaking when that's all you can achieve, but that sort of childishness is something else.

Well, you started this thread by posing questions. Here's my answer: While I don't consider this a question of ethics, I wouldn't want to play with you, because in games in which I am player C, you'd suck all the fun out of the game for me, and going by your descriptions of play, it sounds to me like you lack the skills to even avoid being player A frequently in the first place.

Session: The Settlers of Catan:: Catan: Out of Comfort Zone

wanderm — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:59:39 +0000

by wanderm

For reasons familiar to your male correspondent, but otherwise unusual, I found myself suggesting a session of Settlers of Catan with my wife and two other lady friends. We were towards the end of a very pleasant afternoon of coffee and talk. I’m no geek, and my colleagues were completely new to Euro gaming, so this was something out of comfort zone for all of us. It was interesting to pose whether the afternoon would drift into apathy and lethargy, or whether this game would provide something of a breakthrough in the hobby!

As is my custom when I’m teaching, I brought the rules along slowly, opening with the very nice colourful chits from the fourth edition. Player Blue took to organising them in neat rows, and while I fiddled with the board, the cards, and the playing map, all the while trying to explain what they meant and double checking the rules myself (thankfully this busyness was temporary) my friends kept up with the questions. This was a good sign!

In this manner, the initial placement was left to my friends’ discretion and they duly took their time. The oldest player, me, went first and this turned out to be an appropriate handicap. The dots on the land numbers were useful, as trying to explain the bell distribution was about the funniest thing I had said all afternoon! After one or two take backs we were satisfied, and the game was away in good spirits.

Again in pragmatic style, the trading mechanic was explained along the lines of my "What about two wheat for your ore?" to Player Orange, replete with smarmy smile. The rejoinder (my having got the jump with this deal) was "Oh, it’s the sweet ones you have to watch". "I thought it was the quiet ones!" From there on we were all into it: deals were offered, reoffered and refused, roads were used to block more roads, the Longest Road was shuffled between Orange and Blue, while White quietly accumulated resources and understood the notion of shortages. My Red got further and further behind as a result: I blame going first.

In the end we all had to be somewhere, and after 90 minutes of play from box we declared a no result. All three said they enjoyed the experience, including an anecdote about an early childhood farming game on the C64 and a commitment that we would do this again. I suggested Catan is a good gateway for something heavier: I have some reservations about suggesting Caylus but I am confident given a choice, Catan would hit the table over something like Cranium or Pictionary.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

amatyarakshasa — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:58:52 +0000

by amatyarakshasa

In my opinion player A is a sore loser. I've seen many player react poorly to good play, they seem to think that gaming involves some charitable aspect of making sure everyone gets points in spite of how poorly they play.

Suppose we were talking about a game that didn't involve negotiation, say tigris and euphrates, would it still make sense of one or a group of players to have their game objective to target someone? Would it be considered good gaming if two or three players in Tigris never went to war against each other but only targeted a common enemy? Would it matter if there is a "good" reason behind such a shameful display of animosity? Ganging up against one player is against the spirit of gaming and such tardy behavior doesn't become justified under any circumstances.

The fact that settler is a trading or negotiating game is a poor excuse for this shabby behavior by player A to violate the spirit of gaming. Player A needs to acknowledge that he played poorly or that the cookie didn't crumble his way. I am astonished that player A has this sense of entitlement that he needs to be given points no matter how poorly he plays or how unlucky he happens to be.

There is a world of a difference between player B shutting out player A and player A engaging in 5 for 1 trades with player C. Player B's strategy was not make specifically make player A lose but to make himself/herself win. That this meant shutting out player A was a specific move in implementing his strategy.

For player A to retaliate and make his objective defeating player B is just poor sportsmanship. I detest whiners like player B. If you get one on the chin, you take it like an adult and learn to play better instead of whining like a spoiled baby.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

dawgfish — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:01:06 +0000

by dawgfish

I think he went a little over board. When I am in similar situations I prefer to be less mean. I prefer to be more subtle: refuse to trade with the person who screwed me or demand exorbitant amounts in trade; place the robber on them as often as possible; trade with the other player on occasion even if it is not in my best interest. I would also continue to try to win, while not being disappointed if the player who didn't screw me wins instead.

Of course most of my games are with 5 or 6 players, so I also spend a lot of time trying to convince others to refuse trade with the person, or encouraging them to block him.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Zimeon — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:39:46 +0000

by Zimeon

maksum wrote:
What do you guys think? This is not a rules question, as I know everything is technically legitimate. But does Player B have a right to be angry?

No. Player B is being an asshole. If he shuts a player out of the game, he should realize he's got himself an enemy for the whole game, and should accept any retaliation that comes his way.

That's the nature of ALL gaming. What else should Player A do? He can't win, he can't do anything. He must be doing something. Helping the guy taking his adversary down is not only acceptable but also understandable and very reasonable.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:30:52 +0000

by maksum

Wraith wrote:
So, were you just looking for ways to kingmake, or did you first look for ways to beat him?

Yes, looking to beat him BY kingmaking :devil:

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

elementary — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:47:53 +0000

by elementary

It appears many gamers just don't "get" negotiation games. Part of the game is playing to the human emotion, and the resulting play, of your fellow gamers. Part of it is being a salesman, and finding those mutually beneficial trades, but a huge part of negotiation games is that every player at the table has a significant say in who gets to win. It is the winner’s job to appease his fellow players in a way to works to his overall advantage.

I love that some of you would totally screw an opponent, even if the move is to your advantage, and effectively turn the them and say, "Now, even though I have obliterated your chances of competing, I expect you to play the remainder of the game making strictly self-beneficial plays, and treating me no different than any other players at the table."

Thanks Chief, we’ll see how that works out for you.

A better player would be able to gauge a likely rebuttal scenario, and decide whether or not the move is truly advantageous. If you want to play a strictly formulaic and strategic game, play chess. Quite frankly, what I like about Settlers is exactly what I hate about chess.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Wraith — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:39:33 +0000

by Wraith

flapjackmachine wrote:
A lot depends on whether you believe Setters is a game of first place, second place, third place, etc. or simply a game of one winner and a bunch of equal losers. Last time I looked at the rules the latter was true.
:)

An awful lot of games define only winner, not placings. That doesn't mean you can't acquit yourself well in those games even without winning. Even in two-player games, you can compete well despite losing, and players with a sense of sportsmanship will acknowledge that.

There's nothing quite like shaking your opponent's hand at the end of a hard-fought chess match, knowing that it was a great game, and you don't have to win to feel that.

If I finish Settlers on 8 points, and the guy who took me out of the running finishes on 4, hell yes I've beaten him, and it doesn't matter what the rules say. It's a matter of honour and sportsmanship, not technicalities.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Wraith — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:35:11 +0000

by Wraith

maksum wrote:
Nope... I never set out just to aggravate people. In both of these cases I reacted. I set out to enjoy a game, to compete, certainly not to merely aggravate people.

You might have set out to do that at the start of the game, but that doesn't mean it is your objective at the time when you take action against your opponent. You certainly weren't attempting to compete when you determined to give all possible resources to player C in your original example, so obviously your objectives are subject to change.

So I asked, what were your objectives when you used the robber against someone who claimed a building site ahead of you?

There's ALWAYS an advantage to placing a robber on an opponent isn't there?

There's an advantage compared to not placing a robber on anyone, sure. There isn't necessarily a relative advantage to targeting a given opponent, though.

Placing the robber can deny your target resources, and that hurts him compared to everyone, but in some cases, you will compete better against your target by stealing a resource from somebody else - for example, if another opponent is holding wood, you could attempt to steal it from him, and then beat your target to the next disputed building site.

So, were you just looking for ways to kingmake, or did you first look for ways to beat him?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Jon_1066 — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:27:10 +0000

by Jon_1066

drunkenKOALA wrote:
Player B made the right play.

Player A was being unsportsmanlike.

Personally, I prefer if everyone at the table were playing to win for themselves, for the stake of say a million dollars, or life and death. If that had been the case, player A wouldn't be so hasty to throw the game to player C, and hanged on to his slim chances (extreme with the dice) of winning.

Actually he would (if he was sensible) have asked for a cut from player C then helped him like crazy.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

drunkenKOALA — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:11:54 +0000

by drunkenKOALA

Player B made the right play.

Player A was being unsportsmanlike.

Personally, I prefer if everyone at the table were playing to win for themselves, for the stake of say a million dollars, or life and death. If that had been the case, player A wouldn't be so hasty to throw the game to player C, and hanged on to his slim chances (extreme with the dice) of winning.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

flapjackmachine — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:02:01 +0000

by flapjackmachine

Wraith wrote:
The thing is, though, by the end of the game, I actually had a fairly decent score. I didn't win - couldn't as soon as one either opponent on my borders made a serious attack - but the guy I gutted was a long way behind me on the scoreboard, and my third place was respectably close behind second. That's revenge - not just hurting him, but doing it such a way that I beat him (even if nobody else).

A lot depends on whether you believe Setters is a game of first place, second place, third place, etc. or simply a game of one winner and a bunch of equal losers. Last time I looked at the rules the latter was true.
:)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:30:09 +0000

by maksum

Nope... I never set out just to aggravate people. In both of these cases I reacted. I set out to enjoy a game, to compete, certainly not to merely aggravate people. That's ridiculous (I don't know, maybe there are people that do that). I will playfully counter attack if attacked... sure who doesn't?

There's ALWAYS an advantage to placing a robber on an opponent isn't there? You potentially deny them resources, and you potentially take a resource from them immediately. And I showed him that he can't kick me and expect nothing in return :)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Wraith — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:21:25 +0000

by Wraith

maksum wrote:
I was indeed :) Actually not mad at all (for getting cut off), and thought it was all in good fun. I was being quite playful in my banter stating that he was going to pay, and offering my allegiance to Player C. Player B, however, was not amused at all that I was playing this way.

Hey, I wasn't breaking any rules!

Look, don't get me wrong here. I'll gut an opponent who wrongs me during a game with the best of them. When I played my first (and to date only) game of the Eve boardgame, I found myself sandwiched between opponents in such a way that I would not possibly defend against both. When the owner of the game (and most experienced player) took advantage of that, destroying my position, on my next turn, I looked him in the eye and said, "And now I'm going to show you why you shouldn't do that." I sliced his empire in half, devastated the half with his valuable outposts, and then turned my forces back to meet the offensive stack that had done the damage to me in the first place (and now was trying to get back home to save his position) and grind it into mince too.

The thing is, though, by the end of the game, I actually had a fairly decent score. I didn't win - couldn't as soon as one either opponent on my borders made a serious attack - but the guy I gutted was a long way behind me on the scoreboard, and my third place was respectably close behind second. That's revenge - not just hurting him, but doing it such a way that I beat him (even if nobody else).

Actually in a game on BSW last night I made someone else really angry. The game was going differently, and we were all doing well. I was cut off earlier by a player so when the 7 was rolled on my turn I hit HIM with the robber instead of the player in the lead.

So was there some advantage to you in doing that? Did depriving him of resources give you a chance of beating him to the next building site? Were you hoping to at least defeat him, even if nobody else? Or were you just being petulant?

It doesn't matter how he acts. It's how you act that reflects the sort of person you are.

And you know, if you make it your aim to aggravate people, I think you lose the right to complain when they get aggravated. So, did you have a purpose in mind with that attack, or did you just hope to aggravate someone?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Settlers of Catan Halloween costume!

superbgg — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:27:48 +0000

by superbgg

baconcow wrote:
Do you know what version of the game that is? My cards have different backs (4th Edition, English, Mayfair).

They are the Progress cards from Cities and Knights (mayfair 4th ed).

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Settlers of Catan Halloween costume!

baconcow — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:22:14 +0000

by baconcow

Do you know what version of the game that is? My cards have different backs (4th Edition, English, Mayfair).

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Klak — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:15:09 +0000

by Klak

Seems like player B was just trying to win himself, but should have been aware that there would be reprocussions. Making "screw over" moves like that or the similarly evil "trade away all of one resourse then monoploy it all back" is part of the game. I dont like offering really lopsided trades to the other player, but putting an "embargo" on someone is totally ok.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Phil Fleischmann — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:07:19 +0000

by Phil Fleischmann

I'd like to know what the setup looked like. A three player game of SoC usually has plenty of room. Sure, A might not get the spot he was aiming for, but he can probably get somewhere, even if it requires a long road.

And he's not completely out of the game. He can upgrade his two settlements to cities (4 points), and buy lots of development cards. 4 VP cards plus Largest Army would still win for him. And he'd have the convenience of not ever needing wood or brick - he can trade them for the other things he needs. -- or --

He can build a long road (even if he can't build settlements on it), and take longest road (2 more points), Largest Army and only 2 VP cards, or build one settlement (even if it's useless, like Desert, Ocean, 12), and then he only needs 1 VP card. He's not completely out.

And yes, B is at fault and is somewhat of a hypocrite. He assumes everyone will be playing for himself, but he hasn't followed this strategy himself. He has already given C an advantage by (1) screwing over A, and (2) building his settlement in a spot that wasn't the best spot for him. So he's greatly hurt A, and slightly hurt himself. C comes out ahead before A even thinks about his revenge.

OTOH, if that A-blocking spot that B took really was the best place for B to go - for his own interest - then A really can't complain too much. B just got lucky and was able to take the great spot that he probably didn't think he'd be able to.

But assuming B took a less than optimal spot, just to hurt A, then A is perfectly justified in his revenge. Though he may be wrong in automatically assuming that he's completely out of it. There's a lot of "equalization" in this game - the robber, trading, etc.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:06:11 +0000

by maksum

elementary wrote:

You're player A aren't you?...

I was indeed :) Actually not mad at all (for getting cut off), and thought it was all in good fun. I was being quite playful in my banter stating that he was going to pay, and offering my allegiance to Player C. Player B, however, was not amused at all that I was playing this way.

Hey, I wasn't breaking any rules!

Actually in a game on BSW last night I made someone else really angry. The game was going differently, and we were all doing well. I was cut off earlier by a player so when the 7 was rolled on my turn I hit HIM with the robber instead of the player in the lead.

Holy cow! I mean, I know you typically hit the leader, but my goodness, some people need to take a chill pill. He called me "garbage" and claimed I was playing unfairly. He would not allow me to join any future games.

Does Settlers lend itself to king making? Very much so. So why are people so upset when that's how it plays out? I wasn't out to alter the whole game (this time :) ) I just wanted to mess with someone that messed with me... and he acted like I was a horrible cheat.

Anyway... just blabbing.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

R3sp4wN — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:53:25 +0000

by R3sp4wN

I know this scenario all too well. I play with people like this all the time. Unfortunately, I am usually B.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

elementary — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:35:51 +0000

by elementary

maksum wrote:
All good points :)

At the end of the day I think this is part of the reason I don't really play the game any more. I think it doesn't happen too often, but now and then it just lends itself to scenarios like this.

Mike

You're player A aren't you?

I've been player B in this situation before (locked out my opponent in a three player game). I knew it was a strategic risk, and just like in your scenerio, it didn't pay off. You just have to know that the player you screw has a new goal in the game, screw you back.

Unlike your scenerio however, that game was a blast! The two other players formed an alliance to give the victory to player C. Sure, it was 1 against 2, but let's not forget player A was locked in so it wasn't quite that lopsided.

I knew I wouldn't be able to maintain my lead for long, so I had to scramble to win before my lead was overtaken. In the end I came close, but lost. So in the end it was a close game with two winners (B & C can share in that victory!) and as the loser I was extremely satisfied with my effort to fend off my two foes!

For us, it was the kind of game where after we recount our triumphs and near misses, we look at each other and say, "Let's play again!"

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:04:33 +0000

by maksum

All good points :)

At the end of the day I think this is part of the reason I don't really play the game any more. I think it doesn't happen too often, but now and then it just lends itself to scenarios like this.

Mike

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

Wraith — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:10:19 +0000

by Wraith

Were I player C, I'd be pretty pissed off with the pair of them. They are both wasting my time and patience with their bickering. When I play games, I hope for my opponents to give me both relaxing entertainment and a challenge, and this sounds like neither.

Player B has to learn that in a negotiation game, how you treat your opponents will be reflected in how they treat you. If he shafts someone, and they shaft him back, that's how it goes, and he doesn't get to whine about it.

Player A needs to learn that if he doesn't keep his options open (better than exactly one possible path of expansion), he's going to get shanked sometimes, and that's just part of the game. He can retaliate (because that's just part of the game too) but taking it to such extremes as giving absolutely everything he has to player C isn't fun for anyone.

Essentially, if you can't laugh about it while removing your opponents' metaphorical kidneys, you're being a dick, and this doesn't change if someone else is being a dick too.

I wouldn't want to play again with either of these people.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

flapjackmachine — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:38:02 +0000

by flapjackmachine

Sounds perfectly fine to me. As a player I would have been more annoyed with B's whinning. Gee, who would have thought a game using negotiated card trading as a key mechanic would require the same skills as found in [thing=483][/thing] .

Before the 'stab' I try to make sure I have access to good ports to work around trading 'lock-outs'.

Plus is A really out of the winning loop. Try going for the victory point card monopoly strategy as well as the trading lock-out.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

cpf86 — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:05:22 +0000

by cpf86

i think that player B only has himself to blame. Being angry about it is surely a sign of him being a sore loser. To start off, player B was the one who INITIATED the conflict. I'm sure during that turn when he made that 'brilliant' move to block player A out, player A must have reasoned and negotiated with player B. but obviously, despite all negotiation, player B went ahead to screw A up and making this game totally unplayable and not fun for A. As a result, A has now alter the way that he derive fun for that game, and to him, taking down B is part of the fun.

So obviously, B has asked for it himself. You dont go slap some one and then complain about them asking their big brother to give you a good butt whacking. Tell B to have more sportsmanship. I think that A gave him a taste of his own medicine that being locked out of the game in an unwinnable position is no fun.

alternatively, play chaos in the old world with these players again. We'll see how B cry that he got back stabbed and it's all unfair :D

btw, no offence to anyone since i dont know A, B and C. i'm just commenting based on the described behaviour. Boardgaming is not just about winning, more than anything, it's a social interaction. So obviously you'll need to learn to negotiate and to be a nice guy if you want others to be the same. Go figure.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Ethical Behavior in Settlers?

maksum — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:48:43 +0000

by maksum

I don't play Settlers much anymore. But I've played hundreds of games and I know all too well that a player can get locked out very early in the game. I've been in that position many times before, and I typically just am the best sport I can be and play as well as I can. Sometimes I am quite pleased that I do as well as I did (even though a victory was out of the question.)

So all of us who have played Settlers know this, but let me tell you how a recent game went, and you can give me your opinions...

Players are A, B, and C. All have a decent start and decent opportunities to expand. Player A has only really good path to take, but already has two roads there and is very close to affording a settlement. Player B has gone a different path, but just struck it rich and has the opportunity to slam down roads and a settlement and take the spot that player A was intending to go, leaving player B's original expansion for later (it's not threatened.)

You don't need to know all the specifics, but essentially player A is out of the game. His first settlement's potential expansions were already blocked from the initial placements, and now he's just really out of luck for this game. Looking at the map you would agree.

SOOO, player A takes it upon himself to formulate a new goal for the game... not to win, but to make sure Player B pays! He spends the remainder of the game making obnoxiously lopsided trades with Player C in hopes that he can assist him in taking down Player B.

Ok, NO rules have been broken, but Player B is angry. He accuses Player A of manipulating the game.

What do you guys think? This is not a rules question, as I know everything is technically legitimate. But does Player B have a right to be angry? After all, he started the game with the assumption every person would be playing for themselves, and taking out an opponent would eliminate half of his competition. But now he's against someone with a personal resource gatherer. Should Player A feel guilty in giving 5 for 1 trades (or better) to Player C every chance he can, just so he can see the one who cut him off taken down?

Let me know what you think.

Mike

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Settlers of Catan Halloween costume!

danzuke — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:13:23 +0000

by danzuke

Found this online tonight and just had to share!

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

Paul_Edgar_au — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:32:41 +0000

by Paul_Edgar_au

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The Sleepwalkers of Catan

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da pyrate — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:43:04 +0000

by da pyrate

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The Four Colours of Catan - White, Orange, Red & Blue. I think that the Red and Orange are too close in colour.

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da pyrate — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:36:41 +0000

by da pyrate

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I had no option but to hand-paint my own set of Plum coloured pieces to replace the Orange.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Mayfair 1st Edition Rules wanted

trodge — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:00:26 +0000

by trodge

This sounds like a very cool document...

I to am looking for a first edition rule book...

I'm looking to add both to my almost 700 page catan bible...

Thanks

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

kelvSYC — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:56:13 +0000

by kelvSYC

Also, for 0.9 there will be a peer-review phase. I'd like to get the facts straight for this (I've reposted Volume 1 for 0.8 due to a few errors), as "The First Island" will involve a lot of stuff that needs to be fact checked.

In particular, people with more obscure base sets would be preferred, as their help is useful for "The First Island". Outstanding research questions:

* Is Catan Standard (the version by Capcom) fully variable or somewhat fixed? I've seen a shot of the board, and it looks like it's in four pieces (a two piece-frame and a two-piece board with fixed numbers). Is this the same for Rockman.EXE Standard?
* For those with Catan Portable (the version by Capcom), what are the hex pieces (I'm assuming that Rockman.EXE Portable is similar)?
* Are there any other editions of Catan other than Gallery, Portable, and Simply Catan with "less variability" than the original?
* Besides the Navi game from Rockman.EXE Standard (also Portable?), are there any Catan sets with "alternate rules"?

Also for a future version of the Guide, which could be answered by anyone with the German "Siedler von Kanaan":
* "Siedler von Kanaan" and "Settlers of Canaan" have, while similar boards and gameplay mechanics, have much different rules (no Cheops-like wall building in German, and no Hero Cards in English). What do the Hero Cards do?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

ackmondual — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:39:52 +0000

by ackmondual

kronlin wrote:
I will be buying this game. I want to support the development of further board game apps on the iphone.

Besides, at only $5 if I play it for two hours I'll get my money's worth.

Well, it is called "Settlers Of Catan: The First Island", so there is a good chance we'll see more of 'em

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

kronlin — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:51:10 +0000

by kronlin

I will be buying this game. I want to support the development of further board game apps on the iphone.

Besides, at only $5 if I play it for two hours I'll get my money's worth.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

monteslu — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:36:51 +0000

by monteslu

ackmondual wrote:
Shatner wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Another 'you must all share the iphone' bullshit implimentation?

Do any of these iphone boardgames have non-realtime webplay except word with friends (so they are sort of like play by email)? That is the style that works best for an iphone. I don't get why noone is doing it.

I'm pretty sure one would have to host servers somewhere to run a game like that. All of a sudden a $5 app is no longer profitable.
Wouldn't the iPhone be able to do some kind of 'ad-hoc' setup like the PSP or DS does (not sure about this, but I'm assuming when 2 DS owners play sometime like Mario Kart DS, it's NOT connecting to some server)?

However, I acknowledge that this still may not be profitable to implement.

It's not like a first person shooter or MMORPG. Maintaining boardgame state is much simpler and much less chatty on a network.

If network play made for a much better game, then it might sell much better. Or perhaps an small increase in price would cover the hosting.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

ackmondual — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:57:37 +0000

by ackmondual

Shatner wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Another 'you must all share the iphone' bullshit implimentation?

Do any of these iphone boardgames have non-realtime webplay except word with friends (so they are sort of like play by email)? That is the style that works best for an iphone. I don't get why noone is doing it.

I'm pretty sure one would have to host servers somewhere to run a game like that. All of a sudden a $5 app is no longer profitable.

Wouldn't the iPhone be able to do some kind of 'ad-hoc' setup like the PSP or DS does (not sure about this, but I'm assuming when 2 DS owners play sometime like Mario Kart DS, it's NOT connecting to some server)?

However, I acknowledge that this still may not be profitable to implement.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

kelvSYC — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:37:49 +0000

by kelvSYC

Odd that I got the info from another BGG post (Is it that 1e has smaller hexes? I'm not sure). Honestly, there is some information in the guide that's spotty at best (first/second edition details are like that).

Having said that, I have been working on the promised "The First Island" volume for 0.9 (it's hard since a million different sources say a million different things about the player colors in 1e/2e, and the fact that there are differences in rules in the German and English versions of Canaan, which BGG treats as one entry), and I'll be sure to note it there.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

kelvSYC — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:32:29 +0000

by kelvSYC

The pagination on volume 7 is, to the best of my knowledge, correct. Page 22 should be the first page to Rincewind and the Tourist. Can you please elaborate?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

Shatner — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:19:41 +0000

by Shatner

MrSkeletor wrote:
Another 'you must all share the iphone' bullshit implimentation?

Do any of these iphone boardgames have non-realtime webplay except word with friends (so they are sort of like play by email)? That is the style that works best for an iphone. I don't get why noone is doing it.

I'm pretty sure one would have to host servers somewhere to run a game like that. All of a sudden a $5 app is no longer profitable.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Kolonists Variant??

jschwa — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:31:14 +0000

by jschwa

Since this is the only place where I have seen Kolonists being discussed, would the guys from Kayxo A/S write in to explain whats going on? Their website isn't very helpful: http://www.getifun.com/kolonists/index01.html

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

ackmondual — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:18:01 +0000

by ackmondual

Hotseat mode works with games like Zooloretto where there's no hidden info. I've tried SoC on PC in hotseat mode, it just didn't work out. Well, it does, but ya gotta ignore trading.

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Grape Ape — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:34:28 +0000

by Grape Ape

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The Volcano

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

meepleeater — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:32:12 +0000

by meepleeater

Is it just me or is page 22 vol 7 missing?

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Grape Ape — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:51:01 +0000

by Grape Ape

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The Jungle

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

Salt-Man Z — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:46:35 +0000

by Salt-Man Z

You say that the 1st/2nd editions have smaller hexes, but I own both the 2nd and 3rd editions, and they're almost exactly the same (though the 3rd edition hexes are slightly thicker.) We've played combining the 2 editions (mostly to play 7-8 players) and besides the different graphics, there are no compatibility issues.

The cards for the 1st/2nd editions are smaller, though.

Edited to add exhibit A:
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Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

kelvSYC — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:18:36 +0000

by kelvSYC

Version 0.8 is out now, which you can get from my site.

http://homepage.mac.com/kelvSYC/catan-guide.xhtml

Changes for 0.8 include a new volume for promotional scenarios, a new volume for the recently-released Schätze, Drachen & Entdecker fan-expansion, Catan-News 2009, and a bunch of smaller changes.

And there is no bonus volume.

[o]Only for BGGers - the bonus volume is at http://homepage.mac.com/kelvSYC/catan-scenario-bonus-0.8.pdf - but keep it a secret, okay?[/o]

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

ackmondual — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:57:57 +0000

by ackmondual

Hmmm, the interface, AI characters, and tile graphics reminds me of the PC version by PlayCatan.com (offline vs AI). That was $25, but includes all 3 games (Sett, Seaf, and C&K), and a campaign mode

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Blue Steel — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:15:14 +0000

by Blue Steel

The board game takes about 45 minutes when players know what they are doing. On the iPhone, it would take 15 to 30, and I would be more than happy to play friends that way. I do it on the xbox.

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TolkienLibrary — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:30:17 +0000

by TolkienLibrary

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Card display at Iphone App Catan

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TolkienLibrary — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:29:54 +0000

by TolkienLibrary

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Main screen of The Settlers of Catan on Iphone

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TolkienLibrary — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:25:47 +0000

by TolkienLibrary

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The Settlers of Catan on Iphone

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

cferejohn — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:14:32 +0000

by cferejohn

And you don't need 2-3 available humans, 3-4 available hours, and a flat surface to play it.

I know Catan can drag a bit, but 3-4 hours? Trying to promote the iPhone app by exaggerating the length of the game gives me the eye-rolls. Reminds me of the Snuggy commercials where you see actors trying to answer the phone/read/etc with a normal blanket on them and it's the HARDEST THING IN THE WORLD. There's got to be a better way!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Re: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

medlinke — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:07:07 +0000

by medlinke

I downloaded this and it's okay...

There are some clodgy interface things going on, but for the most part it's fairly fun. I don't think the AI actually "gets" trading, but it can certainly scratch an itch.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Beloved boardgame Settlers of Catan comes to iPhone

TolkienLibrary — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:59:57 +0000

by TolkienLibrary

Settlers of Catan just landed on the iPhone and iPod Touch. And you don't need 2-3 available humans, 3-4 available hours, and a flat surface to play it.
For the uninitiated, Catan unfolds on an island. It's your job to score 10 victory points by capturing the most settlements, building the longest roads, and so on.
Once you learn the rules--and there's definitely a learning curve--it's strategy gaming at its finest: fast-moving turns, balanced gameplay, and enough randomness that even a player who falls behind can quickly get back in it.
Thankfully, Catan for iPhone offers excellent built-in tutorials so beginners can learn the ropes.
Unlike Kolonists, a Catan clone that debuted in July (and has since been pulled from the App Store for reasons unknown), the real Catan follows the board game's exact rule-set--including the use of dice for randomized resource gathering (a key gameplay element Kolonists decided to forgo).
Catan requires three or four players. You can assign as many AI opponents as you want, but when other humans are involved, the only option is to gather around the iPhone (board-game-style) or pass it around for each turn--not a great solution, as you need to keep a close watch on the island so you can plan your moves.
The lack of Internet multiplayer seems disappointing at first, but that kind of play would be nearly impossible given the time required to complete a game.
On the plus side, Catan affords plenty of gameplay options, including a "friendly" Robber mode and an adjustable number of Victory Points needed to win the game. Make it eight, for example, and you can finish more quickly.
In other words, there's more than enough variety here to keep Catan newcomers and veterans alike gaming happily for hours, days, even weeks on end. And given that the actual board game routinely sells for around $40, the $4.99 iPhone edition is practically the bargain of the century.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Revisiting a Classic

thdizzy — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:26:22 +0000

by thdizzy

Hmm, well I guess we'll have to create a team variant for Catan then.

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Liggur — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:14:34 +0000

by Liggur

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What shall we play dad? Catan!!!!!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Holmes108 — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:56:55 +0000

by Holmes108

Jahz wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Blue Steel wrote:
There is no option for online or networked play, as far as I can tell, which really limits the game.

Booh!

I second that. What's the point then ?

Although that seems like a logical first impression, an online review I read has a point though... would this really be the platform to play a board game like this online? The actual board game can take 2-3 hours.

Now obvously an electronic version will move along quicker, but still, who's sitting on the ipod/iphone for an hour playing a boardgame online?

Obviously, to have at the very least the option to play (for those with the time and patience) would be ideal. But I'm no expert in estimating the time and resources it could require to implement such a feature.

Just trying to play Devil's Advocate a little.

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brainst0rm — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:19:22 +0000

by brainst0rm

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Being Played @ Essen

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Copy of expansion: Rincewind & the tourist up for grabs at GG lottery

Faerun — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:29:47 +0000

by Faerun

See here: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/47717

The auction ends at the end of this month, so be quick!

Cheers and happy bidding!

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Settlers with Chinese Dominoes

kelvSYC — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:41:00 +0000

by kelvSYC

Is anyone familiar with Chinese Dominoes? It's a set of 32 domino tiles conventionally sorted into 16 pairs (11 are "civilian pairs", which consist of one tile repeated twice, the other 5 are "military pairs" - four of which are mismatched tiles with the same number of pips, and the last pair being the 2-4 and 1-2, which ranks above them all).

It got me to thinking: has anyone played Settlers (with any scenario for which the dice are homogeneous) with a Chinese Domino set replacing the dice (drawing a random domino instead of rolling the dice)? It really seems worth a shot, if only to see how broken it truly is.

As an indication of how broken it is, only one tile out of the 32 has a total of 3 pips (the 1-2), while 6 is the most common (5 tiles have six pips - the two 3-3, the two 1-5, and the 2-4). 4 (pairs of 1-3 and 2-2) and 10 (pairs of 5-5 and 6-4) are hit more often, while 5 (4-1 and 3-2) and 9 (5-4 and 6-3) less so. 2 and 12 are more often (1-1 and 6-6 are paired) and, of course, there's less robber action as 7 is nerfed (the 4-3, the 5-2, and the pair of Magic 7s).

Still, it's a nice experiment to see what happens if you replace the dice with something else.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Storing Catan game board pieces

Saej — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:12:58 +0000

by Saej

Where's the link for that box?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

darthnice — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:54:52 +0000

by darthnice

EasyESV wrote:
You could get a large playing surface to hold all the hexes in place during play. See this thread:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/414281

A player looking to combine sets that his friends have and who doesn't want to shell out the $15 for the 5-6 player expansion probably isn't going to buy a specialty playing surface. No matter how cool it is. But I sure want one. :D

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

EasyESV — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:42:07 +0000

by EasyESV

You could get a large playing surface to hold all the hexes in place during play. See this thread:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/414281

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

gkirk — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:17:32 +0000

by gkirk

I have a friend that worked in the Kolonists team. He couldn't give me much info about the legal threats (legal reasons :)), he told me about the features they had and couldn't publish:

- LAN multiplayer mode
- Spanish, German and English localization
- fast and strong AI
- lots of UI refinements and customizations

And they were starting work on the internet multiplayer version. I have played the new Catan for iPhone, and it seems the game was rushed:
- very very dated graphics for $4.99.
- no multiplayer. Ok, maybe they are planning that for the next version, but again, they're selling it for $4.99!
- When zoomed out the map looks terrible (lots of aliasing) and when zoomed in it doesn't look very nice either. Besides, what is the purpose of zooming on the map? When playing the real life game I don't stick my face to it.
- bad UI decisions: moving the robber keeps him under your finger so you cannot see where you are placing him!, radial icon menus without text (you have to guess what each icon does), waiting too much for your turn with lots of popups.

On the other hand, trading is nice and the AI seems good.

So there you have it, no place for similar games in the appstore so you have to stick with an expensive half-baked game.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Holmes108 — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:34:37 +0000

by Holmes108

Blue Steel wrote:
....Kolonists was pulled from the iPhone store.....

Double Boo!

I only recently got my Ipod, and didn't have a chance to buy this yet. I have the demo and love it.

I'm still getting Catan, but Kolonists was a nice alternative for something a bit different.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

Wraith — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:53:57 +0000

by Wraith

WooperJeff wrote:
Hexes needed is 1 more desert than standard and 2 extra of all the others.

Er, yes, sorry. Somehow I managed to list the standard numbers of tiles rather than the increased number. I'll edit to prevent confusion.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

WooperJeff — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:35:20 +0000

by WooperJeff

Hexes needed is 1 more desert than standard and 2 extra of all the others.

1 extra of each number.

1 extra sheep port, 1 extra 3:1 port.

5 extra cards of each resource, 1 extra each of Monopoly, Year of Plenty, and Road Building Development Cards, and 6 extra Knight Development cards.

Only rule change is that there is a special build phase between turns-- each player (in turn) has a chance to build, but cannot trade.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

Wraith — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:46:36 +0000

by Wraith

http://www.amazon.de/Kosmos-6930150-Die-Siedler-Catan/dp/344...

There's probably online specialty retailers based in Europe which sell the Kosmos edition of Die Siedler von Catan, but if you want more than the second link provided by Google (the first was Kosmos's web site, and they don't retail, apparently), you can do a little research yourself.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:10:15 +0000

by bragi1013

Wraith wrote:
Dave, I think you missed that last commentator's point. Settlers of Catan was a Kosmos game before it was ever a Mayfair game, and still is. What Mayfair did is neither here nor there, if Settlers is a good game for you and yours, because it is available without dealing with Mayfair at all.

I'll bite...anyone have a link to where you you buy a non-MF copy?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Blue Steel — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 16:44:09 +0000

by Blue Steel

There is a pass & play option, but it is, as you might guess, quite cumbersome, particularly when you are considering a trade.

An online mode would have been the best by far, and as it stands the game does some things right, but it is extremely cumbersome in several ways. If the Kolonists game was still available, I think it is the better game in most all ways, but until the IP dispute is resolved, players will have to "settle" for Catan. ;)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

schkff — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:40:38 +0000

by schkff

Is there a pass & play option?

I'm probably not going to get this because my wife is already hooked on iPhone Zooloretto and the Roman-themed Settlers rip-off (which is rather nicely done, excepting for doing away with resource dice) Kolonists. If I get Settlers I will never get to use my phone again...

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Jahz — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:56:06 +0000

by Jahz

Flyboy Connor wrote:
Blue Steel wrote:
There is no option for online or networked play, as far as I can tell, which really limits the game.

Booh!

I second that. What's the point then ?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Flyboy Connor — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:23:48 +0000

by Flyboy Connor

Blue Steel wrote:
There is no option for online or networked play, as far as I can tell, which really limits the game.

Booh!

(While I personally never play online games against human opponents, with board games I think it's the other players who make a game fun, not the mechanics. Especially not the Catan mechanics. Playing Catan against an AI -- which I have done -- is just plain boring.)

Review: The Settlers of Catan:: Catan on the iPhone - Review of the Electronic Version (Catan: The First Island)

Blue Steel — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:26:34 +0000

by Blue Steel

Catan is a classic, and I own several versions and expansions and have the game on the xbox 360, so when it was released today on the iPhone, I had to pick up a copy. I've always been a big advocate of getting games out there in electronic formats, so I am here to offer a review of this newest version of Catan, named Catan: The First Island.

On the Positive Side . . .

The game implements all of the rules of classic Catan.

The trading interface is very effective.

The statistical information you can get from the game (dice distributions, resources gained, resources lost to the robber, etc.) is extensive and interesting.

There are a lot of information boxes you can activate to learn more about the game or what various options mean.

The AI for other players seems decent and will not trade with you once you have a commanding lead.

There are a few popular easy variants that are built in as selectable options: you can have the dice rolls dictated by a card stack, for example, if you want to be sure of a normalized distribution. You can change the victory points needed to win, you can fix the map, or you can play with a "friendly" robber or a resource bonus for players who go too long without getting any resource. Such options are welcome and can soften the game for newer players.

On the Neutral Side . . .

The price of $5 is somewhat in line with what I would consider reasonable. It is more than a lot of iPhone Apps, and I'm curious how well the price point works out for them in the end, but it is a consistent with other official premium board game conversions, such as the newly released Hive on the iPhone. I am happy to pay the price when I consider what the board game cost, what the xbox version cost, and to support more developers getting their games onto the iPhone. Others may not be so willing to overlook the odd interface choices and poor animations of the game to pay more than what most apps cost now days, however.

On the Negative Side . . .

There is no option for online or networked play, as far as I can tell, which really limits the game.

There are a few very minor bugs, such as seeing your resource count disappear briefly as another player collects the same resource.

There is a fairly limited selection of player portraits.

Catan has a lot of expansions, and it would be nice if some of those had been included, such as the Cities & Knights or the Seafarers, but it is understandable why they didn't.

There are a few pieces of information that it would be nice if they provided. For example, during gameplay you can see how many victory points, roads, armies, and resources each player has, but you don't see any kind of symbol that shows a player has 2 of their victory points from having the longest road or the largest army. It can often be reasoned out studying the board, but it would sure be an easy and great convenience to have that information provided in a small symbol next to the player's portrait.

The animations and quotes from your computerized opponents are profoundly annoying, but at least you can turn those off or speed them up. Even sped up, though, the hexes of the island look like they are shaking slowly rather than alive and "animated" with wind blowing through the forests or whatever the goal was. And even when you select to speed things up a bit, they can still drag a lot, forcing you to watch the dice roll and so forth.

I like having some options, but even more would have been better. For example, a similar game called Kolonists was pulled from the iPhone store (presumably over intellectual property disputes), but I felt that game offered a lot that Catan does not, such as a brilliant new worker placement mechanic for resource gathering that turned the core game into a true strategic gamer's game as opposed to a fun but somewhat randomized gateway game. If the rights holders are going to allege infringement at every opportunity, it would be nice if they at least incorporated some of the significant improvements others have offered as options in their own version.

In Conclusion . . .

Overall, I would give this implementation a 6.5 out of 10. It works, it is the official version, and a lot of enjoyment can be found here, but they could have done so much more speeding things up further, including online play, and incorporating a lot more variants, expansions, options, and character portraits than they have already.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

Wraith — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:37:39 +0000

by Wraith

Dave, I think you missed that last commentator's point. Settlers of Catan was a Kosmos game before it was ever a Mayfair game, and still is. What Mayfair did is neither here nor there, if Settlers is a good game for you and yours, because it is available without dealing with Mayfair at all.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:53:40 +0000

by bragi1013

metzgerism wrote:
It sounds like you're just getting hung up on the fact that Mayfair has distribution in North America, but can't really see the forest for the tree that you ran into with your bicycle back when you were in Junior High.

Except you don't give money to a tree in exchange for goods or services. The tree didn't offer free lumber and maple syrup to draw in more business, then refuse to give what was agreed upon, even though you had already given the tree hundreds of dollars.

Man, that tree sucks. But wait, there's thousands of other trees over there that have lived up to their advertising promises. I guess I'll go give those trees my business.

The Free Market Forest rules!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

metzgerism — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:55:53 +0000

by metzgerism

It sounds like you're just getting hung up on the fact that Mayfair has distribution in North America, but can't really see the forest for the tree that you ran into with your bicycle back when you were in Junior High.

Do your family a favor and buy it - but better yet, order a copy from KOSMOS or one of the other dozens of Catan distributors, instead of Mayfair.

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

jacun — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:28:45 +0000

by jacun

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Victory point card - signed by Klaus Teuber, Essen 2009

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: News:: Settlers of Bayern

kelvSYC — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:50:53 +0000

by kelvSYC

Has anyone secured a copy of Settlers of Bayern (rather, Catan Geographies: Bayern), the new Catan scenario map, at Essen? If so, does it play identically to Hesse/NRW/I&O?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Robbing the harbors

trodge — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:55:26 +0000

by trodge

Where would one find an pdf version of the first edition rules?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

ackmondual — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:38:23 +0000

by ackmondual

For many of us, playing SoC (and often paired with getting sick of it and quitting it) was a "rite of passage". It promoted us to "gamers". The unique thing about your situation is you're already a "(board gaming) man". While you can go back to be a part of this (wouldn't be an awful thing if I were to say so objectively), it seems you would be going backwards by getting Catan.

There's no way you can tell with with absolute certainty, but still, if your interest is there, consider taking some precautions. Try it out online. If possible, try it out with other groups where other people own it. Otherwise, if there's a good chance you can sell the game for decent money, you can always do that if you end up not liking it. I will say, your situation is more risky buying games from India from a financial perspective.

madhujith wrote:
Hi All,

I'm posting this question after going through some of the reviews on this forum about this game. In spite of having gone through reviews, I haven't been able to get a clear answer for myself whether to buy this game or not.

Some of the games that I own are Puerto Rico, Thurn & Taxis, Caylus, Princes of Florence, RftG, Dominion, Genoa, Louis XIV, Notre Dame, Power Grid, Agricola etc.

I was planing to get Settlers of Catan + the Sefarers+ Cities & Nights expansion but not sure if this game will be fun and adding value as I have the above mentioned games?

Please guide me.

Thanks and Regards,
Madhu

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Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

madhujith — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:17:33 +0000

by madhujith

Guess looking at the response, I should definitely try an online version, though I'm not sure how close to the real game it comes, and then decide to buy it. But yes, I'm kind of interested in this game because of the very fact that this changed the whole boardgaming scenario. Still a difficult decision as I have to spend quite a bit to get games shipped to India.

Huge disadvantage to be a gamer being in India. I shed more money on shipping than the games themselves :cry:

Hence wanted clarity before buying this one

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

Boofus — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:56:10 +0000

by Boofus

madhujith wrote:
Hi All,
Some of the games that I own are Puerto Rico, Thurn & Taxis, Caylus, Princes of Florence, RftG, Dominion, Genoa, Louis XIV, Notre Dame, Power Grid, Agricola etc.

I own and enjoy the majority of those games too.

I absolutely hate Settlers. I hate it even more with Cities and Knights.

My gamer friends hate it.

My non gamer friends love it (people that get a headache (no kidding) by playing Agricola).

I can't say if you will like Settlers or not but here's my advice: If you really like the games you mention above, don't buy it. And if you do, don't expect to find any of these games qualities in it.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

fuzzyfife — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:39:03 +0000

by fuzzyfife

Polgara wrote:
To give another opinion:

I prefer vanilla settlers over the cities and knights expansions, mainly because the base game is about the right length for what it is (dice rolling and trading) and cities and knights adds a lot of time to the game, without giving much in return.

Another thing I dislike about cities and knights is that you can be at a serious disadvantage by loosing a city to the barbarians early in the game, without being able to do much about it (bad dice rolls). It doesn't mean you'll lose, but it will be a lot harder to do so.

Seafarers is ok, the main things it adds are ships which allow you to find new land (so the board forms partly during play). It gives you another use for sheep as well (ships are made from wood and sheep).

I don't think that you really need settlers to make your collection more complete, you have negotiation in Genoa and that does it better imo. If you have a group that really likes trading, this game will be enjoyable, if the people you'll be playing with aren't really into that, it is just rolling dice and hoping the right numbers come up.

I would second this opinion. Vanilla Settlers is just about the right length and is a pretty easy game to teach to others. A great way to get newbies to try games that are unlike what most people are used to playing.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

gamesgrandpa — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:35:16 +0000

by gamesgrandpa

Everyone should have a copy of Catan!

Well, maybe not Everyone, but most serious gamers should. I think it formed a turning point in the development of great boardgames. Our family has enjoyed playing it for many years, and I don't see the interest declining. We always play with either 5 or 6 (with the 5/6 expansion) and even bought a frame to hold the tiles together. For about a year, there were 7 of us playing, so we modified the rules a bit and I created a 7th set of pieces.

Yes, you should buy a copy. If you don't like it later, I'm sure you would have no difficulty selling or giving it away.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

ReinhartTR — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:18:20 +0000

by ReinhartTR

I know C&K is the holy grail for some Catan fans but I've got to agree with Polgara. In addition to that, my group found it extremely frustrating. I got the box home thinking it was going to be a bit hit with my Catan loving group and we played... and we all walked away frustrated, but we thought, 'Maybe it was just a bad run' so we played again... 'no, this still sucks', it is now on my trade list, I hate it, my friends hate and it will never get tabled again.

Why? Well, we found it needlessly lengthened an already long game, as Polgara said. Also, there was a general consensus that pursuing the science tech tree meant victory and that all the added interaction and attack cards simply made us hate each other as we needlessly prolonged the game. It turned a game that is usually exhilarating and enjoyable into a grumbling slog fest.

*EDIT*
Oh yeah, bottom line: Get vanilla Catan, if you really like that but you find yourself saying: "Boy, I wish this game as longer and more interactive with some rudimentary concept of war." get Cities & Knights.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

Polgara — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:19:22 +0000

by Polgara

To give another opinion:

I prefer vanilla settlers over the cities and knights expansions, mainly because the base game is about the right length for what it is (dice rolling and trading) and cities and knights adds a lot of time to the game, without giving much in return.

Another thing I dislike about cities and knights is that you can be at a serious disadvantage by loosing a city to the barbarians early in the game, without being able to do much about it (bad dice rolls). It doesn't mean you'll lose, but it will be a lot harder to do so.

Seafarers is ok, the main things it adds are ships which allow you to find new land (so the board forms partly during play). It gives you another use for sheep as well (ships are made from wood and sheep).

I don't think that you really need settlers to make your collection more complete, you have negotiation in Genoa and that does it better imo. If you have a group that really likes trading, this game will be enjoyable, if the people you'll be playing with aren't really into that, it is just rolling dice and hoping the right numbers come up.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

snoozefest — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:09:32 +0000

by snoozefest

Opinions are good, but why not just try it yourself? Even if no one around you has a copy, there are a bunch of places to try the basic game (and a few to try C&K and Seafarers as well) online -- just check the links posted on the game's main page. You can even play against robots somewhere so you don't feel like you're ruining anyone's game, if that's your fear.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

LordT — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:05:16 +0000

by LordT

Fwing wrote:
Yes! :)

I'd recommend getting Settlers and the Cities and Knights expansion. I personally find that Seafarers just adds bloat to the basic game and I'll never voluntarily play with it these days. C&K adds a new layer of gameplay altogether.

Completely agree with above.
You definitely need to get the Cities & Nights expansion as well, seeing the gaming experience you have with the games you currently own.
SoC on its own wouldn't be challenging/interesting enough probably.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Should I buy this game?

Fwing — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:00:08 +0000

by Fwing

Yes! :)

I'd recommend getting Settlers and the Cities and Knights expansion. I personally find that Seafarers just adds bloat to the basic game and I'll never voluntarily play with it these days. C&K adds a new layer of gameplay altogether.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Should I buy this game?

madhujith — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:42:55 +0000

by madhujith

Hi All,

I'm posting this question after going through some of the reviews on this forum about this game. In spite of having gone through reviews, I haven't been able to get a clear answer for myself whether to buy this game or not.

Some of the games that I own are Puerto Rico, Thurn & Taxis, Caylus, Princes of Florence, RftG, Dominion, Genoa, Louis XIV, Notre Dame, Power Grid, Agricola etc.

I was planing to get Settlers of Catan + the Sefarers+ Cities & Nights expansion but not sure if this game will be fun and adding value as I have the above mentioned games?

Please guide me.

Thanks and Regards,
Madhu

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

Wraith — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:18:46 +0000

by Wraith

Others have been discussing the tiles, but there's another component issue: the numbered tokens.

If you are used to the standard setup with the tokens starting at a corner and spiralling inwards in alphabetical order, you will have trouble achieving the same with only the tokens provided by two standard Settlers sets. You could do it, but you'd have to find out the lettering of the tokens from the 5-6 player expansion and either mark the alternate lettering on your (combined set of) tokens or painstakingly lay out the correct order of numbers before each game.

However, there is a variant that some players like that would work and would simplify the setup for your six-player games. Just don't worry about spiralling inwards, and simply place tokens randomly. Any time you have two adjacent red-numbered tokens (6 or 8), move one so that they are no longer adjacent. This method of setting out the tokens can provide a less even spread of resource production across the board, but usually works well enough (and is favoured by some people who prefer a little more variation in their boards).

The token mix you will need will be two 2s, two 12s, and three of every number from 3 to 11 (except 7, of course).

And the tile mix is two deserts, three hills (brick), three mountains (ore), four pastures (sheep), four fields (wheat) and four forests (wood). Ports are two sheep, one of each other 2:1, and enough 3:1 ports to alternate the ports all the way around the coast.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Variants:: Re: Complete Scenario Guide

kelvSYC — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:35:27 +0000

by kelvSYC

There's a slight delay in finishing version 0.8 right now (though I may choose to delay it until after Essen to see what SDE and Catan-News '09 brings). Going over it with a fine-toothed comb, and adding more rounded information. For version 0.7 and a preview of 0.8, visit http://homepage.mac.com/kelvsyc/catan-guide.xhtml

And if anyone asks, there is no bonus volume.

[o]
Actually, there is a bonus volume. Featuring any other scenarios authored by any author of the "official" scenarios. You heard it here first.

The Bonus Volume will not "officially" be part of the scenario guide - it will only be available as a "secret link".

The majority of the delay is due to the "Ministers of Catan" variant by Stefan Risthaus, because the rules are fairly complex and comprehensive, and it's in a form of German that doesn't particularly translate well by a machine translator. Why that is? It's because you combine Settlers with the Catan Card Game! Nuff said.
[/o]

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

ackmondual — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:24:29 +0000

by ackmondual

superbgg wrote:
Welcome to BGG!

You might have to skip the frame peices all together, as I'm not sure if you could connect them into a bigger shape without the seafarers frame peices or the expansion. You could do that though - and just put the individual harbors where you want them.

The main rule change is that there is a 'special building phase'. In between turns, (when the dice are passed), players can call out "building" and build roads/settlements/cities/dev cards. NO TRADING IS ALLOWED IN THIS PHASE THOUGH. The reason for this extra step is that otherwise it would be too easy to get over 7 cards in your hand when the robber comes calling.

Hope that helps.

Note, no trading includes no use of ports, nor the global port (aka maritime trade at 4:1 rate). In addition, no playing of development cards is allowed during the 'special build phase'.

Some groups have adapted a variant where you do NOT have a special build phase in 5 to 6p games. Instead, just up the hand limit to 9 cards instead of 7.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

superbgg — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:25:25 +0000

by superbgg

Welcome to BGG!

You might have to skip the frame peices all together, as I'm not sure if you could connect them into a bigger shape without the seafarers frame peices or the expansion. You could do that though - and just put the individual harbors where you want them.

The main rule change is that there is a 'special building phase'. In between turns, (when the dice are passed), players can call out "building" and build roads/settlements/cities/dev cards. NO TRADING IS ALLOWED IN THIS PHASE THOUGH. The reason for this extra step is that otherwise it would be too easy to get over 7 cards in your hand when the robber comes calling.

Hope that helps.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

darthnice — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:22:06 +0000

by darthnice

You won't be able to build the board with the included border, so the harbor tokens will just sit on the table. Additional rules are here:

http://www.catan.com/en/download/?Settlers_5-6_rv_Rules_1001...

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Is it possible to combine board sets for 5-6 player games?

catanmon — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:36:33 +0000

by catanmon

Recently bought Settlers of Catan (4th edition) and two friends went out and bought the game after playing. Now we've got several friends into the game and want to start playing with more than 4. Curious if it's possible to combine pieces from two sets of Settlers for 5+ players instead of having to buy the expansion set.

I'm thinking we would mark or put a sticky dot on the road/settlement/city pieces to distinguish between other players' same color pieces but was curious if there are issues with attaching the harbor/sea pieces of the board. Also, are there any additional rules with 5-6 players? Help?

Thanks!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

Hugin — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:43:51 +0000

by Hugin

jgatkinsn wrote:
Sounds like regular Catan. I know the fourth edition has long cardboard edge pieces to surround all the hexes. I think earlier editions were slightly different.

Either way, my copy doesn't have the problem with the edge pieces sticking up. They lay flat just fine.

My 4th edition bowed a bit when I first used it as well but it disappeared after using it just a few times.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Settlers on "New Christine" TV Show

FCSchmidt — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:23:23 +0000

by FCSchmidt

Sounds like they're setting up for the ol' "wood for sheep" gag.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

jwoodall04 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:30:23 +0000

by jwoodall04

The 3rd edition didn't have borders unless you bought the expansions. I'm still looking for a damn 3rd edition seafarers. Not because I play Settlers anymore, but just because it feels goofy only owning C&K.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

jgatkinsn — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:53:40 +0000

by jgatkinsn

bragi1013 wrote:

The edge pieces were longer than the ones in the center, and wouldn't stay down. Based on what you just wrote, it was the normal game we played. They set up the board, and told me there were multiple ways to do it. Since I only played once, I don't know what those other ways could be.

Sounds like regular Catan. I know the fourth edition has long cardboard edge pieces to surround all the hexes. I think earlier editions were slightly different.

Either way, my copy doesn't have the problem with the edge pieces sticking up. They lay flat just fine.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:24:31 +0000

by bragi1013

dcorban wrote:
I assumed since he specifically used the term "modular" and stated they used weights to hold down the board due to warping, that it wasn't using the normal hexes. I'm not sure how you could place weights to fix warped hexes.

AFAIK, the gallery edition is just a normal board, split into 2-3 interlocking parts, with hexes printed on it.

Not that I really care, I was just curious since it was the first time I had read about anyone on BGG actually using the gallery edition.

The edge pieces were longer than the ones in the center, and wouldn't stay down. Based on what you just wrote, it was the normal game we played. They set up the board, and told me there were multiple ways to do it. Since I only played once, I don't know what those other ways could be.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:21:47 +0000

by bragi1013

GreyLord wrote:
You should realize they put EVERYONE's gadget in there. I think the contest wasn't the winner only got their gadget published, but that submissions became property of Mayfair and the winner would get their item in there (but they didn't restrict it to ONLY the winner).

You've been angry at Mayfair all these years because of that!?

It actually said I was the winner of the contest in the book.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

craniac — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:53:26 +0000

by craniac

paperfred wrote:
Do you have a copy? I would love to see a scan of your gadget.

Excuse me, but this is a family site.

This was a hilarious review, like watching "The Gods Must be Crazy" only with an isolated Ameritrasher stumbling across Euros.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

dcorban — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:15:23 +0000

by dcorban

I assumed since he specifically used the term "modular" and stated they used weights to hold down the board due to warping, that it wasn't using the normal hexes. I'm not sure how you could place weights to fix warped hexes.

AFAIK, the gallery edition is just a normal board, split into 2-3 interlocking parts, with hexes printed on it.

Not that I really care, I was just curious since it was the first time I had read about anyone on BGG actually using the gallery edition.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

Jim Cobb — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:09:11 +0000

by Jim Cobb

dcorban wrote:
Modular board? Were you playing the "Gallery edition"?

Your version isn't modular? I thought they all were.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

Karlsen — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:24:31 +0000

by Karlsen

MrSkeletor wrote:
bragi1013 wrote:
while previewing a Euro-style boardgame (albeit a ridiculously famous one), to ascertain its appeal to my strictly Ameritrash family.

In this country that is considered child abuse.

Which bit Frank? The previewing of a Euro-style game or the Ameritrash family? ;)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

GreyLord — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:38:23 +0000

by GreyLord

You should realize they put EVERYONE's gadget in there. I think the contest wasn't the winner only got their gadget published, but that submissions became property of Mayfair and the winner would get their item in there (but they didn't restrict it to ONLY the winner).

You've been angry at Mayfair all these years because of that!?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

dave65tdh — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:53:19 +0000

by dave65tdh

Shame on them for screwing a 9 year old. Unfortunately the statute of limitations has probably run (even if it was tolled until you were 18). Mom or Dad should have taken you to small claims court for justice.

Great post.

:)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 05:05:59 +0000

by bragi1013

dcorban wrote:
Modular board? Were you playing the "Gallery edition"?

I don't know. I'll have to call and ask them what version we played.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 05:02:50 +0000

by bragi1013

paperfred wrote:
Do you have a copy? I would love to see a scan of your gadget.

Heck no! I'd have to buy a copy to do that, and I was supposed to win 2 free copies and an Ambush Bug mask.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

dcorban — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 05:01:23 +0000

by dcorban

Modular board? Were you playing the "Gallery edition"?

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

jgatkinsn — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:58:16 +0000

by jgatkinsn

Well, you could either buy it from someone else used, and know you had the pleasure of not giving Mayfair your money.

Or...you could get crafty and make your own version out of cardboard, POD cards, and tokens;) Call it "Settlers of Dave"!

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

superbgg — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:55:45 +0000

by superbgg

Probably not enough to turn you from your holy quest against Mayfair - but you could try the Cities & Knights expansion - adds a lot of conflict to the game. :thumbsup:

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

paperfred — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:54:35 +0000

by paperfred

Do you have a copy? I would love to see a scan of your gadget.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Reviews:: Re: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

ElCid91 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:53:03 +0000

by ElCid91

bragi1013 wrote:

Hell no, it's a Mayfair game. Screw those guys. 23 years! Gimmie my prize!

I can relate. When we were buying furniture for our house my wife told me we couldn't shop at one particular store because they had tried to cheat her mother ... when her mother went to buy a bed for my now wife but then 7 year old daughter. My wife turned 36 this year.

Oh yea ... somethings you never forget. When it's time to buy furniture for my daughter's house ... she will not shop at that store either. My daughter turned 3 this year.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Settlers sighting on new web-based show

consolewa — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:37:59 +0000

by consolewa

The Revision 3 web show "Web Zeroes" features a bit of Catan in its second episode. Here's the link if you care to see how this mockumentary-style show used the game:

http://revision3.com/webzeroes/techyeti

Review: The Settlers of Catan:: Disgruntled Mayfair Customers of Catan

bragi1013 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 04:33:25 +0000

by bragi1013

While out of town on business, the brother in-law offers dinner and a game. When he and his kids stayed with us, it was BBQ and Munchkin. This time it was teriyaki chicken and Settlers of Catan. Well, I haven't turned down a free meal since 1986, and had been thinking about buying a Settlers game for the kids for a few months now. This evening would allow me to maintain my perfect record of culinary frugality, while previewing a Euro-style boardgame (albeit a ridiculously famous one), to ascertain its appeal to my strictly Ameritrash family.

Point number 1: I like monsters, magic and machine-guns. I like helicopters, hit points and hell-beasts. I like dragons, dynamite and post-apocalyptic demons. I like little plastic army men, and little plastic bags of little cardboard bits. My kids also like these things because I'm the one with the job, and will consequently like whatever I put in the closet. If they want to move wood blocks around and pretend to grow carrots, or be the first player in the game to get their letters patent to the Chambre des Comptes, then they can get a job and do it on their own dime.

In short, we've never taken the plunge into the Euro style of game (or even dipped in a toe) because the idea of playing a game that doesn't include a single battle-axe or laser-beam sounds excruciatingly, mind-numbingly boring to me. I wouldn't watch Chocolat with my wife, why would I reenact the movie in a game?

Point number 2: Mayfair Games viciously cheated a 13 year old boy. Yes that benevolent dreamer of a lad was your truly. Driven by the need to possess everything associated with superheroes, I had a prolific collection, to include the original DC Heroes RPG published by the now reviled Mayfair Games. The game that had the unmitigated gall to propose the Atom was stronger than Hawkman, while sending droves of adolescent males fleeing to the stores for TSR's Marvel RPG because calling someone's Agility Remarkable is a lot easier than trying to figure out what a Column Shift is supposed to be, especially if you got a C in math. But I was buying module after module, driven by the enticing lure of Jose Luis Garcia Lopez artwork. I even subscribed to the Mayfair Games DC Heroes newsletter. This newsletter announced the new rules for creating gadgets and weapons. They even had a contest. The winner would receive new games and be published in the new Hardware Handbook Sourcebook. Well imagine my surprise, six months later, thumbing through the new sourcebook at Endgames, and seeing my name, my gadget, and even the drawing I submitted to the contest. That's right, apparently you can win a contest with Mayfair Games, and never receive your prize. I wrote them, but to no avail. And that's when I turned to a life of drugs and crime. Well, maybe not so much -- but I still have never since made a Mayfair purchase.

What were we talking about? Oh yeah...

...so we're playing Settlers with three teams, with each of their kids teaming up with an adult, as they would be going to bed before the game finishes. The brother-in-law's wife tries to play semi-cooperatively, and apologetically, against the beginner; she agrees to some pretty weak trades, and lets me redo a few mistakes. But her husband knows better and quickly puts an end to that by dogging me with the robber, and encroaching on my territory. But it was too late, and soon I had little orange blocks across most of the board, the longest road, a university and an army of knights. Here are a few quick impressions:

The little wood things are OK, and the cards are decent, though not too exciting. But I suppose if you're playing a game about trading sheep for bricks, just how exciting do the cards need to be? I like modular boards, but this one was very thin and shiny, and also bowed in the middle. We had to hold it down with soup cans. But they assured me this was a fluke, because their friends game didn't share this characteristic.

The rules are simple, and I appreciate all the different options available each turn. I also like all the different ways to score. You can be tormented with bad die rolls, but I don't mind a little luck in a game.

I can see why this is such a common entry game; a good game to lure Monopoly barons away from their play money, and Risk warriors away from their handfuls of dice. But is it fun enough to lure me and my kin away from our plastic trolls?

Honestly, I don't know. It's fun enough, but the competition in our closet is pretty fierce. What does it offer the other games don't. It takes less than an hour. It's non violent (Mom likes that). It's simple enough for the kids, and offers enough challenge for Dad. And, most importantly, it's enjoyable. That's a pretty strong case for a game with sheep in it. So will I buy it?

Hell no, it's a Mayfair game. Screw those guys. 23 years! Gimmie my prize!

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:43:18 +0000

by Ikarus

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Cards - Devir - Spanish Edition

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:43:10 +0000

by Ikarus

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Tabla de Costes - Devir - Spanish Edition

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:42:58 +0000

by Ikarus

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Hexes - Devir - Spanish Edition

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:42:32 +0000

by Ikarus

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Gran Ejercito de Caballeria - Spanish

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:42:24 +0000

by Ikarus

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Gran Ruta Comercial - Spanish

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:40:46 +0000

by Ikarus

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Board - Spanish Edition

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:40:42 +0000

by Ikarus

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Development Cards I - Spanish

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Ikarus — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:40:38 +0000

by Ikarus

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Development Cards II - Spanish

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Could player position affect the outcome of the game?

TMJJS — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:16:22 +0000

by TMJJS

AlexYeager wrote:
Jimmy, our analysis of several years of Catan tournament data (by a mathematician) suggests that first placement is NOT an advantage and does NOT win the majority of the time. SECOND placement seems to be the most desirable, in fact, but it's not by much). The analysis that was done suggested 2-1-3-4, and the only significant gap (and it's very small) is between the two ends of the scale.

There are a lot of factors playing into this: this is based on US and Canadian players, and the winners here are among the best players in the world. Specific board setups, resource scarcity and other factors all come into play when choosing your spots. (It's one of the reasons we do 4-round tournaments for the World/NA qualifiers, assigning each player one game starting at each of the positions.) You recognize your data as anecdotal, which is good; beyond that, I'd suspect you see your play patterns change over time.

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games

Having played in these tournaments for the past several years and being the current "World Champion" I can tell you that none of us usually want to be 1st player. 2nd and 3rd are the most popular unless the board set-up just screams one good spot (ie - only one spot for ore that's not a 12,11, 3 or 2). I personally like going 3rd since I can usually get 2 good 3-spot placements that get me on every resource and spread out my numbers.

As has also been stated, in a 3 player game, everyone gets better starting positions and usually all 3 players can get good 3-spot placements instead of having to go to the coast and only getting a 2-spot production space.

Thread: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Settlers on "New Christine" TV Show

jedimusic — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:00:35 +0000

by jedimusic

New Adventures of Old Christine on ABC(?)...For a couple of years, they have had Pirate's Cove prominently displayed on their living room shelf (along with a few other mainstream games.) This year, PC is gone, but it has been replaced by... Settlers of Catan! I guess some gamers work on set design for the show?

Perhaps Christine's family are going back to the classics after a foray into the more luck-driven theme-heavy games

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Settlers of Catan border

EasyESV — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:36:32 +0000

by EasyESV

www.settlersaccessories.com

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Which Order Should I Get The Expansions In?

EasyESV — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:34:38 +0000

by EasyESV

MIB 8686 wrote:
Where would I purchase that cool case?

www.settlersaccessories.com

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Anyone have a CatanBox for tradesell or know a US retailer?

EasyESV — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:32:51 +0000

by EasyESV

www.settlersaccessories.com

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Expansion organization

EasyESV — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:29:50 +0000

by EasyESV

www.settlersaccessories.com

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: General:: Re: Wood carrying case for Catan?

EasyESV — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:28:27 +0000

by EasyESV

www.settlersaccessories.com

New Image for The Settlers of Catan

trn_dsn — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:09:58 +0000

by trn_dsn

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girls at our game-night

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trn_dsn — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:08:48 +0000

by trn_dsn

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girls at our game-night

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trn_dsn — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:07:14 +0000

by trn_dsn

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girls at our game-night

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trn_dsn — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:58:37 +0000

by trn_dsn

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my 2-games simultaneous session (i'm in the center)

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darthnice — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:45:53 +0000

by darthnice

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All 3 different Knight cards from the Mayfair 4th Edition.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Robbing the harbors

paperfred — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:37:06 +0000

by paperfred

Although the rule does not appear in the current edition of the rules for Catan, it was an alternate rule in the original Mayfair edition:

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My friends and I don't use that rule anymore since we started using Seafarers. But we use the house rule that pirates block ports.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Robbing the harbors

ehan106 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:52:49 +0000

by ehan106

Thanks, that's what I thought. My buddy moved the robber and when I tried to use my harbor trade he insisted the robber was camping out on my harbor pier and looting any incoming shipments. I gave him a victory point for imagination.:)

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Robbing the harbors

WooperJeff — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:46:00 +0000

by WooperJeff

No, you can still use a harbor a settlement is on, even if the robber is on a hex touching that harbor.

Reply: The Settlers of Catan:: Rules:: Re: Robbing the harbors

superbgg — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:44:16 +0000

by superbgg

ehan106 wrote:
If the robber is placed on a coastal hex with a harbor, does that prevent a player who controls that harbor from using it?

Welcome to BGG! Not in the standard rules, no. With the Seafarers expansion - my group usually plays that the pirate can block harbors, but that's not official either. :D