Descent: The Road to Legend | BoardGameGeek

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Treacherous Footing - the Second Card in the free downloadable Plot Deck

pinkymadigan — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:09:52 +0000

I've only seen two, maybe three regular encounters work out in the OL's favor, and both (that I recall with certainty) occurred VERY early in the copper phase and happened to be on heinous maps as well. Unfortunately, the heroes don't spend much time around the OL's keep in early copper (usually), and by the time you've made enough ice paths to matter you've spent way too much conquest (1 a piece + 15 for the second card) and not purchased proper upgrades- the kind that actually win a session of RtL.

I'm not ruling out that the rest of the deck might be better, but that is a card I would certainly not waste my CT on. CT purchases need to result in more CT, and that one is certainly not worth giving up a treachery point or most of a monster upgrade on during the only part of the game it would actually matter in (early copper).

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Seige Rules Variant - City Defence Parties

MordredofFairy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:03:33 +0000

by MordredofFairy

well, i even DO like the idea of replacing the siege roll with something less random.

Kind of like Garrison vs. Lt, but i'd do that as a more tactical, less squad-based game...kind of like, use a point-buy system to get generic swordsman, archers, and casters.
Siege tokens could work as a kind of "command aura" on them. While missing, they get +range/damage, when equal to city rating, nothing, if more than city rating, penalties to armor.
And after a failed attack on the city, 2 siege tokens are removed(so it's better to wait until you DO feel confident to try and take the city...only giving it a desparation shot if the heroes try to intercept you...and leutnants SHOULD be able to die permanently in these battles...that way, the heroes also stand to gain something for doing exceptionally).

i think creating a whole party and fighting over and over will not do well for the time management.
One of my players even suggested integrating battle-lore for siege combat :P I have yet to consider that, as i know he likes that system quite a lot -_-

anyway, in total: i think it's a nice idea, and i also dislike the roll, but it's too cumbersome, too much game-time dedicated to it, and too much of a luck factor. besides, any LT would focus on any guy so lucky as to have ranged or magic attacks, with flyers, take them out, and win easily. if you only get one or two guys with ranged, and non has blast to ignore the extra range needed, you may as well fold your draw and place the "razed"-token, without going through that masochistic gauntlet.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Seige Rules Variant - City Defence Parties

Hankroyd — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:37:24 +0000

by Hankroyd

I don't know ...

A campaign is very long to play.
Doing this will add extra time (which I don't mind), but it will be extra time when the principal heroes do nothing and gain nothing ...

So the game is longer and bring nothing to players and overlord.

my 2 cents.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Seige Rules Variant - City Defence Parties

nickjanaway — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:44:47 +0000

by nickjanaway

We're on our second campaign, and we got bored of rolling surges to raze cities - seems such an anticlimactic way to settle such an important part of the game. We also wanted to get the other heroes out of the box sometimes! So, I've come up with these alternative seige rules - in summary, a hastily-formed band of slightly weaker heroes defends the city against the lieutenant and his minions. All the city's attributes are used in some way, meaning different cities are easier/harder to raze. These haven't been playtested, they're just ideas right now, and they are deliberately imbalanced to weaken the heroes... any suggestions and changes welcome.

Road to Legend - Alternative Seige Rules - City Defence Parties

In the "resolve seiges" stage of the game week, when a city (other than Tamalir) has seige tokens equal to its defense rating, do the following instead of rolling a power dice to resolve the seige.

1 - Draw Defence Party
*NB Do not draw a defence party for Tamalir - it already has one! If Tamalir is beseiged, the main party must return to fight off the lieutenant(s) there. If they cannot, Tamalir is AUTOMATICALLY razed.*

Draw four new heroes (not inlcuding the ones in the Tamalir Party). These heroes represent the local militia in the beseiged city, slightly weaker fighers that happen to live there. These randomly drawn heroes may NOT be swopped.

2 - Skills
Each hero in the defence party ends up with one (or possibly two) skills, by the following procedure.

Do not include any skills that are currently in play (in the Tamalir Party). Draw from the hero's normal combination of skill decks, except - each hero may only draw a maximum of ONE SKILL from any skill deck for which the corresponding DICE are not available at the beseiged city. For cities with no dice, it's a maximum one card in each skill category.
So, to spell it out - if there are no melee dice available at the city and you're allowed fighting skills, draw only one fighting skill in your initial selection. No ranged dice means maximum one subterfuge skill; no magic dice - maximum one wizardry skill.

E.g. If Runewitch Astarra appears to defend Forge, you may only draw ONE skill for her from the wizardry deck, even though she should get three. [This is because runewitches who live in forge are not likely to be particularly awesome ones.]
E.g. If Sillhouette appears to defend Forge, draw her full complement of three subterfuge skills.
E.g. If Red Scorpion appears to defend Frostgate, draw one skill from each category [finally, she has some advantages!]
E.g. If Battlemage Jaes appears to defend Dawnsmoor, draw one fighting and one wizardry skill (not two).

Once you have drawn appropriate cards for the four heroes, they each pick one to keep, like a starting Tamalir party. If any of the actual skills available at that city shows up, the hero may have that skill plus one of the other ones they drew. This is the only way a defence party hero can have 2 skills.

3 - Treasures & Items
Do not use any of the treasures currently in the Tamalir party.
For each hero, draw 2 treasures from the current campaign level deck. Apply any special effects from the beseiged city's market, e.g. Riverwatch: replace treasure caches, Nerekhall: keep drawing until you reach a rune. (Treasure caches drawn anywhere other than Riverwatch DO contain any potions listed.) If the current level treasure deck runs out, start drawing from the next one down. Distribute the final selection of treasures to the defence heroes in any legal combination. Any unwanted treasures may be exchanged for shop items ON A CARD-FOR-CARD BASIS, not by selling and buying. Shop items currently in the Tamalir party may not be used.

4 - Extra armour
After treasures and items have been finalised, any hero that is not wearing armour has their armour increased by 1 point. [this is because armour is rare in the treasure decks and the Tamalir party probably has a lot of the shop armour.]

5 - Alchemist
The defence party receives potions equal to the city's alchemist rating, or a minimum of 2. (The party players may choose which potions as usual.)

6 - The encounter itself
Draw a location card, and play a standard lieutenant encounter (treachery & all) using the new defence party.
Defence heroes cannot flee.
The defence party cannot permanently kill a lieutenant. If the defence party reduce the lieutenant to 0 wounds in this encounter, he/she returns to the Overlord's Keep and all seige tokens are removed. Only the Tamalir party may permanently kill a lieutenant, and they may of course move to the beseiged city and attack the lieutenant as normal.

If the lieutenant flees the encounter, he may try to tackle the same defence party again the following week, at full wounds and with full minions! Keep the defence party to one side as they are:
- Any defence heroes killed in this encounter are permanently killed. [Only the Tamalir party has access to glyphs!]
- Each hero may keep their weapons or discard them and draw again as in step 3.
- All surviving defence heroes are healed of wounds equal to their city's temple rating.
- The defence party receives another week's worth of potions from the Alchemist (again, minimum of 2) and may then use any to heal further wounds. They start again on full fatigue.

This means the lieutenant can "wear down" the city's defence party over several weeks if he doesn't manage it the first time. Unless of course the Tamalir party intervenes and drives him off. Once all four defence heroes have been killed, the city is razed.

NOTES:
If a Tamalir hero learns a skill that a defence hero has, the defence hero loses the skill.

If a city is 'saved' [ie lieutenant leaves] and subsequently beseiged again, an entirely new defence party is chosen, starting from step 1.

Neither the overlord nor the party recieve any conquest tokens or money during this defence encounter.

If there are multiple lieutenants, the defence party faces both/all of them each week - the Overlord chooses the order in which the lieutanants attack.

[These rules mean different cities will have be easier/harder to raze, and different lieutenants will be better/worse at it. I think that is great! Also defence parties will be relatively much much weaker at gold level, having no extra skills or dice. This is ok, as the Tamalir party will have wandered around by then and benefitted from several cities. If they really want to save a city at gold level, they'd better hustle. Possible modification - the defence heroes starting traits let them use power dice of the current campaign level, e.g. at gold level Mordrog uses 3 gold dice with melee attacks...]

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

MordredofFairy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:32:48 +0000

by MordredofFairy

corbon wrote:
IKerensky wrote:
Simpler way :

Play all dungeon 3 cards.

Divide by two the CP needed to change campaign level.

Divide by two gold and CP needed to train heroes.
Divide by two Overlord cards and upgrade cost (except first buy).

Then you got it : a campaign that is twice as fast and much more furious.

You'll need to speed up map movement and siege rates as well. Otherwise you can kiss goodbye any map-board pressure the OL exerts, any chance of the OL achieving Map-focused plot goals, and most of the chance of heroes getting to secret trainings.

not only that, playing one dungeon may get you half-way to the next campaign level. basically what he is suggesting is the same as just earning double CP and gold for everything. that would mean also multiple upgrades needed per round for the overlord, and about 2 complete dungeons per campaign level, meaning less chances to draw weapons etc...main problem not even being the increased gains, but the increased gains of complete dungeons.

An unlucky draw of a legendary dungeon with 4 levels may well be worth a whole campaign level. The heroes also won't have to travel far to find new dungeons or evade LT's...heck, in this concept, you can scratch Lt's, you can just rush into 6 dungeons in a row, interrupted only for secret trainings, and go to the final keep, spending money on potions, weapons, and training. around the time the first city rolls for siege, you have the final battle coming up. -_-(well, not THAT extreme, but you catch my drift).

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

MordredofFairy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:13:52 +0000

by MordredofFairy

shnar wrote:
Yes, at the start of every level ALL heroes start next to the Glyph. But since the Heroes start first, if a Hero wants to go to town for his turn, he may, so it's (almost) a moot point. I say almost, since the OL could play something like Dark Charm and interrupt the Heroes turn.

-shnar

well, technically not, since he has to play that in his own round.
traps are mostly out, too, since they won't have to pass over empty fields.

The main thing is that they can't START in the city, thus can't pop in from other, activated runes...i think there's even a session report or 2 in which this was handled wrongly.

good thing to know it wasn't actually a houserule, but how it should be-

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

shnar — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:45:49 +0000

by shnar

Yes, at the start of every level ALL heroes start next to the Glyph. But since the Heroes start first, if a Hero wants to go to town for his turn, he may, so it's (almost) a moot point. I say almost, since the OL could play something like Dark Charm and interrupt the Heroes turn.

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

corbon — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:37:08 +0000

by corbon

IKerensky wrote:
Simpler way :

Play all dungeon 3 cards.

Divide by two the CP needed to change campaign level.

Divide by two gold and CP needed to train heroes.
Divide by two Overlord cards and upgrade cost (except first buy).

Then you got it : a campaign that is twice as fast and much more furious.

You'll need to speed up map movement and siege rates as well. Otherwise you can kiss goodbye any map-board pressure the OL exerts, any chance of the OL achieving Map-focused plot goals, and most of the chance of heroes getting to secret trainings.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Re: Encounter Markers

ssgtnelson — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:20:41 +0000

by ssgtnelson

Thanks a lot everyone; since I'm just reading through everything some things are really confusing still. I guess our first set of dungeons will explain everything.

THANKS AGAIN!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

IKerensky — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:44:18 +0000

by IKerensky

Simpler way :

Play all dungeon 3 cards.

Divide by two the CP needed to change campaign level.

Divide by two gold and CP needed to train heroes.
Divide by two Overlord cards and upgrade cost (except first buy).

Then you got it : a campaign that is twice as fast and much more furious.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

corbon — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:36:35 +0000

by corbon

MordredofFairy wrote:

2.: technically, it's not clear. Some people decided to read it as those people who were in town, stay in town.
This however, can be quite game-breaking in some dungeons(as you may only move to, or from the city, but not from one portal to another...so in such a scenario, one sniper could clear the portal, a runner activate it, and the mage step through with a battle action and fatigue to blast everything up close, followed by the tank cleaning up...not supposed to work like that.

I ruled for my tables, they all start at the glyph of the next area(they wait up until everybody is there)-it seems to be in the intent of the rules the most that way.

It is in fact clear and specific.
RtL pg 17
Dungeon Level Setup
When the heroes enter a new dungeon level, the overlord draws
a Dungeon Level card. ...
Once the overlord has set up the dungeon level board according
to the map, the hero players place their figures on or adjacent
to the activated glyph as normal

This is for each dungeon level. Not each dungeon. It does not matter whether it is level 1 (starting the dungeon), level 2, level 3 or even level 4 of the dungeon. Each level starts this way.

There is a screwup 2 paragraphs down in the same section where they talk about drawing cards at the start of an entire dungeon. However that mistake does not invalidate the rest of the rules about how to set up each dungeon level.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

MordredofFairy — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:27:55 +0000

by MordredofFairy

the main problem is that the overlord usually prepares during the first level of a dungeon, starts the fight in the second, and has plenty of powers and upgrades in the third(or fourth level).

i'd suggest rolling one white die per dungeon level skipped.
on a miss result, re-roll.

otherwise:
for every surge, put a power card of OL's choice into play.
for every point or damage, the OL gets 5+campaign level(copper=1, silver=2, gold=3) threat.
for every point of range, he may draw 2 cards for his hand, choosing one to keep and discarding the other(not for threat).

white dice stats are on average: 1.7 damage, 1.7 range, 0.8 surges-...2.04 and 0.96 respective if rerolling on miss.

that means on a normal dungeon or rumor with 2 dice rolled, on average 2 power cards should be in hand, he should have 20-32 thread(campaign level), and 4 cards in hand and discard pile each.
in a legendary dungeon, on average 3 power cards, 30-48 threat, and 6 cards in hand and pile.

This is in one way still weaker, because you may save some card for a good moment, which you can't here...you have to wait to draw it...and since it's only 1 level, it's highly unlikely that the deck will be cycled at all, plus heroes enter fresh and unwounded.

As a compensation, you get some threat to start you out, some extra cards in hand, and power cards. doing this by rolling a die, will also allow for SOME variation in how the start works.

In that case, you could probably just double all CT gains and rush through in a gung-ho-campaign. (easier than reducing "phase limits" and then further adjusting prices...)...you should allow multiple overlord upgrades per turn, though.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Treacherous Footing - the Second Card in the free downloadable Plot Deck

MordredofFairy — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:59:04 +0000

by MordredofFairy

i agree it may be better priced at 10 CT, but it's not all too terrible.
It cuts out quite a couple of the green harmless/good encounters, and as was said, some of the red ones can be nasty.
While true they can usually just run or hack/slay, the heroes are often still vulnerable early in the game. Getting this and lawlessness early can seriously be a pain to copper-level-heroes.
also, while they MAY run, and gain, it also allows you to specifically weaken them, more. Say you get a good encounter...don't aim for a TPK, it won't work. Instead attack the most dangerous and squishy guy until shortly before he's mincemeat, then the second-most-squishy guy.
After the hero's turn is over, move in with your 2-trail-moving leutnants for the kill(maybe even one to weaken and the second to kill...getting sent back to the keep is not so bad if you double-move...). I see this working well with the demon leutnant and silver eldritch, i tell you...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

MordredofFairy — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:44:35 +0000

by MordredofFairy

for both questions:

1.: Yes, you may attack another hero to do that. Be aware though that you have to roll all appropiate dice. So if your melee tank does that, he will roll his silver and gold dice.
Also be aware that by not equipping a weapon at the start of your round, you put it into the back-pack. I strongly suggest enforcing the "how many items can i carry around"-limit, heroes tend to overlook that(though not out of malice, mostly...).

2.: technically, it's not clear. Some people decided to read it as those people who were in town, stay in town.
This however, can be quite game-breaking in some dungeons(as you may only move to, or from the city, but not from one portal to another...so in such a scenario, one sniper could clear the portal, a runner activate it, and the mage step through with a battle action and fatigue to blast everything up close, followed by the tank cleaning up...not supposed to work like that.

I ruled for my tables, they all start at the glyph of the next area(they wait up until everybody is there)-it seems to be in the intent of the rules the most that way.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Question on Harbinger Approaches

MordredofFairy — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:25:48 +0000

by MordredofFairy

Yep, that is basically the idea of ascension. Since after you summon the harbingers, the heroes CAN enter your keep, it's highly unlikely you get to 9 comets to win, before they either get past 600 for final showdown, or rush your keep.

Depending on WHEN you raze the fourth town, they may have a chance to just hop into 2 or 3 dungeons(1 every week) for some goodies and hoping to get over 600 total rather than rushing your keep.
If they got the griffin mom's(i think it was her? or was it the dragon?) transporter, they may also instantly go there with only 1 comet.

basically, 2 or 3 comets should be manageable, 4 or 5 will usually end bad for the heroes-any more: grats on the win.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Re: Encounter Markers

MordredofFairy — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:20:50 +0000

by MordredofFairy

yep, it's on the dungeon card.

we had that level a short time ago...

the sorcerer is almost immortal, in that he always respawns at beginning of overlord turn-killing him won't open the door.

However, on every encounter marker, (ending your turn?) allows you to roll 2 dice.
If both are surges, congrats, the door is unlocked. for the last marker, you don't need to roll, it's automatic.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Treacherous Footing - the Second Card in the free downloadable Plot Deck

nickjanaway — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:00:37 +0000

by nickjanaway

Not all the time - some of the red encounters are pretty deadly. But yes, the heroes can generally just run away or they simply slash & "earn"...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Re: Encounter Markers

Putenbrust — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:57:58 +0000

by Putenbrust

Yep, it's on the dungeon cards. I know because I did the same mistake :), it's something that solves itself once you actually play the game.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Re: Encounter Markers

eselred — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:12:58 +0000

by eselred

I don't have the game in front of me, so I'm guessing here. Have you checked the corresponding dungeon card? Usually, the special rules are listed there, not in the rulebook where the maps are.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Encounter Markers

ssgtnelson — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:59:56 +0000

by ssgtnelson

Ok, I have a good idea how Encounter Markers work normally, but in Road to Legend there is a map where I'm not sure what to do with them; May 10 The Ancient Library has 10 Encounter Markers, but no description as to what they mean.

Can anyone tell me what to do if I get this map in the campaign? I just bought Road to Legend, so maybe I just skipped over something in the rules.

Thanks,
Nelson

Session: Descent: The Road to Legend:: The Spider who wanted to be God - Session 3

Hankroyd — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:41:52 +0000

by Hankroyd

After a month hiatus we continued our descent campagn.

Here is the previous session :
Session 1 : http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/411731
Session 2 : http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/413227

So here is our heroes and Ispher:

Ozyree as
Landrec the Wise (26/37)
12 / 5 / 1 / 3 (8 wounds)
Magic : 3 black
Talent :
* Blessing
* Prodigy
Equipement :
* Fire Cone
* Leather Armor
* 1 Stamina Potion
* 1 Power Potion
Unequiped : Sun

Matt as
Astarra, Witch Runes (26/37)
12 / 5 / 2 / 5 (4 Wounds)
Magic : 1 silver, 2 black
Talent : Inner Fire
Equipement :
* Chastise Staff
* Heavy Leather Armor
* 1 Stamina Potion
* healing Potion
Unequiped :
* Immolate
* Leather Armor

Kakael as
Lord Hawthorne (6/37)
16 / 4 / 3 / 4
Melee : 3 black
Talent : Mighty
Equipement :
* Dragonteeth Hammer
* Chainmail
* 1 Stamina Potion
* 1 Healing Potion
* 1 Power Potion
Unequiped : Axe

Toramal as
Ispher (26/37)
12 / 5 / 1 / 6
Melee : 1 black
Ranged : 2 black
Talent :
* Tiger Tatoo
* Boggs the Rat
Equipement :
* Magic Bow
* Leather Armor
* Amulet of Archery
* 2 Stamina Potion
Unequiped : Iron Shield

And of course, here is your humble servant as the Spider Queen

Overlord
Ascension Plot (2 cards)

Upgrade :
* Siege Engine
* 1 Trap Threat
* Silver Eldrich

Lieutnent : Sir Alric Farrow (On the Whispering Forest)

Last game ended with Matt and Toramal pretty demoralized by their failling of a dungeon.
Will this campagn will end today, will the Heroes get over their pityful last session. Just read for the anser !

Week 10: First Encounter (Continued)

So the session began with Heroes ambushed by a bunch of Naga in a zone where everyone gets Armor-1.
There was an instant of ... malaise, when I asked who will be awake at the beginning of the encounter.
Players wanted to put Landrec on guard duty ... but choose not to do so and instead choose at random who will be awake.
Why ? Because, they have no way to know when they will be ambushed during the night and so they have no way to put the 'right guy' at the 'right time'.
I take a preventive step and explained the communist squad that it's not because it's an outside encounter that the game has become an RPG. It's still a boardgame and they can choose anyone without cheating. It's in the rules !

So Landrec was awake, ready to use his new powers.

Nagas and the ogre was put far away from each other to prevent a multikill from Landrec, blocking the exit to try the total party kill.
Ispher awakens in the first turn, and guard order began to be played to kill Nagas before they attacked.
I tried my best but Landrec alone manage to kill them one by one (with a little help from Ispher).
Lost for lost, The nage boss grips them all to prevent them escaping and have a +2 armor bonus.
It was at this time that the two others choose to awaken. My poor naga was killed without manage a single kill.

Not very important, but for the players, it means that this session will be better than the previous.

And they arrived at the Cavern of Thull, ready to steal as many gold as they could.

Cavern of thuul Legendary Dungeon

Level 1 : The Invocation (13)

I choose to began with 5 sorcerers and 4 skeletons. Hoping the skeletons would hold the heros long enough to let the sorcerer invoke the Demon.
Halas, with a no trap starting hand, I could do very much, so the sorcerers forgot about the Demon and went for the kill.
Ispher especially proved very vulnerale against the new silver eldricht, allowing me to (barely) stay ahead of the heroes in term of experience.

Level 2 : Call from the Deep (35)

I made a big error during the setup : I protected every items near the Boss with monster EXCEPT the glyph.
Ispher, immunised to pit, runned and activate it while others Heroes went to Tamalir, planning to come back next turn directly in the melee.
Of course Ispher died (again) but so did my monsters and my poor sorcerer boss.
On the good side for me, They were so afraid of failling in the poisonned pit, they left without the gold.

Level 3 : The Citadel (22)

Strategy for the Heroes was very simple : 'Whatever you do, don't stop in the trapped hallway.
I learn from my previous mistake and manage to protect the Treasure and put some Elite Beastmen near the (again) Sorcerer Boss to protect the glyph.
But ... Gosh ... is level is strange : A so big place, with so few monsters to protect it.

Ispher decided to go its way to try to get the Treasure, while the others go for the boss.
A little spawn (basic sorcerers) allowed me to dispose of Ispher (The only one to have died so far !) and take the others heroes by behind.
With Sorcery 4 and 2 command, the Boss, in fury, killed Landrec just after from very far away. (Why Landrec didn't die before ? For a simple reason, he's as easy as Ispher to kill but he worthes only 2 while Ispher worthes 3)
After that, the configuration of the map, allowed me to play a little game of cat and mouse with the heroes. Of course, heroes have the upper hand in this given their 'guard' orders, but it doesnt matter : It allowed me to get a very good hand and lot of threat for the last level.
And then after the demise of the Boss, I got a good surprise ... No not a successful immortalty roll ...

Overlord: O...K... Will he resurrect ... **Dice roll** ... No ... Why did I got the feeling I won't manage an immortality roll today. (I didn't know where this feeling came from, but unfortunately, it proved to be right : On 4 or 5 immortality roll I didn't manage a single one.)

... but the Heroes choose to allow Landrec and Hawthorn to make a 'rest' order before the last level while Ispher and Astara was protecting them with 'guard' order.
I didn't know why, but they though that I wouldn't pay 15 extra threat for a spawn before the last level. But I would, and a skeleton patrol entered the dance.

The first was killed by Astara, but the second manages to hurt Landrec and denied him the rest.
The Master Skeleton was intended for the kill but ...

Ozyree: Now, my rest order is out, I guess it's your turn Kaekael.
Overlord: So I attack Lan... what did you say ?
Ozyree : huh ?
Overlord: Oops, I forgot Kaekael, you were right, thanks Ozyree. I attack Kaekael.
Other playes: Geez, stupid moron, why did you tell him ????
Ozyree: Errr... to ... stay alive ?
Everyone: ...
Ozyree: To be fair, I was just thinking out loud. That wasn't mean to hear by Hankroyd.
Kaekael: Good job ! Next time, less talky, more thinky.

... but my cunning strategy was from the star to cancel the two rest orders ... so I did !
After that they spend some time discussing. Theme of discussion : Should we try to rest again or not ? Hopefully for them they choose not to try it again and they escaped to the last level.

To my regrets, during one trip to Tamalir, an 3 points armor against Magic dans Ranged was bought and given to Ispher, so he's becomes slighly harder to kill with sorcerers alone. Still not a major problems for skeletons though.

Level 4 : The Caverns of Thull

It has been a very long time since the player saw a level so big ... jeez ... a level with ... zones !
The starting zone was cleared and securised without any problems.
They choose to go to the right wing, assuming than the dragon would be in the central aera and that maybe they needs keys from the side aera before going to it.
Again in the new zone, monsters were easyly killed and the loot just waiting for them.
Surprise, when they took the 1000 Gold reward the dragon appeared. Unfortunately, everyone except Ozyree had played.
Forgetting that Hawthorne was just next the dragon, Landrec began to harass him twice, and then it was Astara with her 'guard' order : In one round, they managed to deal to Hawthorne more damage than I have done to him since the beginning of the session, making his 4 conquest point at kill range from my traps.
A cooper dragon doesn't deal that much damage, But Astara was really weakened, and if the dragon didn't kill her directly, the burn killed her the next turn.
After the demise of the Dragon, a new discussion arose : "Should we stay or should we go ?"
They choose after the overlong debate, to try another zone knowing that I will certainly gets 12xp (from the soon demise of Hawthorne, Landrec and Ispher and the cycling of the deck), but having been broke one time, they go for it.
Second overlong debate : The left zone or the central ?
Fews hours later (Relative time perspective from an overlord listening to a stupid and useless debate.) they choose the central zone because "there is less distance to cover".
But ... While going back they get careless with spanning, and a troops of skeleton attacked them from behind giving me immediatly the experience that I should have gained on the central zone. Worse, on next turn, more skeletons appeared on the starting zone, taking heroes by surprise : I was litteraly crawling on experience and in control of the start zone, pushing the heroes to withdraw, but they are reasonning in another way : Since I got so much advance, they have to catch me before leaving. They cleaned the starting zone and tried to go for the central zone, heading to an Manticore and retreating immediatly to be striked by the few remaining skeletons.
But they saw two glyphes aka 6 experience, so they still didn't let go.
Again they used guard order to kill the razorwing and the manticore. The poor beast tried to kill Hawthorne, but cooper manticore only deals 3-4 damage per attack, so the four furied attacks didn't weakened him significantly.
After that, this time they prepared themselves to fight the dragon. In two turn, the affair was finished.

Last zone was anticlimatic : Only Ispher went, taking the gems and activating the glyph while other waited 'outside' the dungeon for Ispher to die (Wich was fast thanks to some sorcerers).

At end of session, everyone was happy, Heroes choose spend the money in the secret training zone nearby. Near Lord Farrow. I guess it will be time for others lieutnents to come and serve me.

At the end of session :

Overlord : 30/70 xp
Heroes : 65 xp & 6800 gold
Campaign : 135 xp

Landrec the Wise (26/65)
12 / 5 / 1 / 3 (8 wounds)
Magic : 3 black
Talent :
* Blessing
* Prodigy
Equipement :
* Fire Cone
* Leather Armor
Unequiped :
* Sun
* Petrification

Ispher (26/65)
12 / 5 / 1 / 6
Melee : 1 black
Ranged : 2 black
Talent :
* Tiger Tatoo
* Boggs the Rat
Equipement :
* Magic Bow
* Elven Robe
* Amulet of Archery
* Stamina Potion
Unequiped :
* Iron Shield
* Leather Armor

Astarra, Witch Runes (26/65)
12 / 5 / 2 / 5
Magic : 1 silver, 2 black
Talent : Inner Fire
Equipement :
* Chastise Staff
* Heavy Leather Armor
Unequiped : Crystalization

Lord Hawthorne (6/65)
16 / 4 / 3 / 4
Melee : 3 black
Talent : Mighty
Equipement :
* Dragonteeth Hammer
* Chainmail
Unequiped : Axe

Group Enhancement :
* Magic Boat
* Bazaar

Overlord
Ascension Plot (2 cards)

Upgrade :
* Siege Engine
* 1 Trap Threat
* Silver Eldrich

Lieutnent : Sir Alric Farrow (On the Whispering Forest)

Miscealenous comments :

At least, the third was the good one : Heroes finally saw the power of silver and gold dice, and used them effectively.
The sceance was a big dungeon crawling, like vanilla descent. In the last level, I made everything to force them to quit but failed utterly, maybe if they didn't saw the two glyphes in the central zone ... As a player, I knew that in a zone roaming with sorcerers and skeletons with a runnaway Overlord, I would have escaped.
History is written by the winner. And if at first I rejoiced of their 'stupidy', I finished only with 5 more XP while I was previously at 10 more. They made the good choice.
I was fairly disapointed by silver Eldricht ... they don't last much longer than the copper ones ... but one the other hand, they last long enough, the amount of damage they dealt is really satisfying ... poor Ispher/Toramal.

One last quote to finnish the sceance.

Context :
Heroes decided to go to the central zone ready to give me 12xp.
One the next turn, I manage to steal 9 of those XP ... and a few more during the two next turn.
The starting aera is controlled by skeletons and ...

Matt: Hmmmmm ... Maybe finally, going back isn't a bad idea.
Ozyree: No ! We go on !
Matt: But the monsters, the kills Hankroyd makes each turn ... By taying we only give more power.
Ozyree: We have to stay ! We got a good reason for that.
Matt: Which one.
Ozuree: Three turns ago we choose to stay, we never talked about reconsidereing this if we get butt-kicked so we have to continue.
Matt: ~~But... but... try to use common sense !~~ ... Make sense to me, we continue.

Overlord (in this head): Wai ... What ?? Come on ! You've got to be kidding me ! You fall for that reasonning ! I'll have to send a Christmas present to Ozyree for all the XP he's giving me ...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Treacherous Footing - the Second Card in the free downloadable Plot Deck

pinkymadigan — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:58:07 +0000

by pinkymadigan

That is a terrible card for the OL to play. The overland encounters favor the heroes heavily and give them extra gold and conquest with out providing much help to the OL at all. At a cost of 15 CT I would never play that.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

mbronkowski — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:59:46 +0000

by mbronkowski

I would say they start together at the starting glyph.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

cyberkp — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:28:15 +0000

by cyberkp

Quote:
Also, as for the portals that are in the end of each dungeon level...
It says in the book "Heroes remain thusly in transit ((it means the heroes that are INSIDE the portal)) until all of them either enter the portal, or move to town, at which point all of the heroes are moved to the next level."

Does that mean that if 1 hero enters the portal, and the others get in a glyph to go to town, they ALL get to the other level ??

That's what it says.

And they start Together at the starting area of the next level, or do they have to spend that 1 action point to get there through the starting glyph ?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Question on Harbinger Approaches

Hankroyd — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:01:31 +0000

by Hankroyd

It's not the fault of the overlord.

It's the fault of the Heroes to have let 4 cities razed. They must assumes consequences or let the overlord win. (And if an overlord manage to do this, he deserves to win !)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

timstellmach — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:58:51 +0000

by timstellmach

cyberkp wrote:
Can a hero make an unarmed attack to another hero, in order to wake him up ??

Why not? In general, you can attack any space you want.

Also, as for the portals that are in the end of each dungeon level...
It says in the book "Heroes remain thusly in transit ((it means the heroes that are INSIDE the portal)) until all of them either enter the portal, or move to town, at which point all of the heroes are moved to the next level."

Does that mean that if 1 hero enters the portal, and the others get in a glyph to go to town, they ALL get to the other level ??

That's what it says.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Questions regarding Sleep in descent and Portals

cyberkp — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:22:10 +0000

by cyberkp

Can a hero make an unarmed attack to another hero, in order to wake him up ??

Also, as for the portals that are in the end of each dungeon level...
It says in the book "Heroes remain thusly in transit ((it means the heroes that are INSIDE the portal)) until all of them either enter the portal, or move to town, at which point all of the heroes are moved to the next level."

Does that mean that if 1 hero enters the portal, and the others get in a glyph to go to town, they ALL get to the other level ??

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Question on Harbinger Approaches

whipko — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:07:52 +0000

by whipko

It will insane hard for the heroes. They basically have 0 fatigue.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dungeon lvl 17, how often do bones regenerate and if hero is holding?

Frithuric — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:07:10 +0000

by Frithuric

That is not how we read it. We read it that he is only restored if the bag of bones was set down after being picked up, regardless of where it was set down. The "if being carried" clause only applies if the bag is set down (trigger the effect) and then picked back up by the same or another hero.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Question on Harbinger Approaches

Hankroyd — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:00:38 +0000

by Hankroyd

I should say yes.

At least, it's my stragety to make the comet falls on silver and force the hero to take on me before being ready with a malus in health and stamina.

I read and I didn't found anywhere that it isn't a legal tactics.

It penalize Heroes for not being able to protect 4 cities.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Question on Harbinger Approaches

whipko — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:10:28 +0000

by whipko

IF hero enter the OL keep before the nine Comet tokens. And the OL keep is within three trails from the Nine comet.

Will the heroes wound and fatigue reduce by 1 also?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A Question about Giants....

jcb231 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:28:26 +0000

by jcb231

I hadn't forgotten the named thing. Named monsters usually (if not always? I think always?) have some sort of additional powers/life/whatever on top of the standard vanilla card though, so I'm not counting named monsters as appearances of the "regular" monster.

I had totally forgotten that the monsters don't auto-upgrade though. That then, is the only way bronze/silver un-named Giants can appear in the game. The Overlord player must be the Titan, and must not upgrade the Giants, and the players must reach the final level of the Keep. Encountering an un-named Bronze or Silver Basic or Master Giant in Road to Legend is thus a rare and special treat.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Cooling Off The first card in a new plot deck for Descent: Road to Legend!

DavidT — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:14:26 +0000

by DavidT

Aulayan wrote:
Guys, it's better than you think.

Heh. I'm very happy to have something new and free to play around with, but "lone print-and-play plot" is not better than "possible upcoming expansion." ;)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A Question about Giants....

Putenbrust — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:18:08 +0000

by Putenbrust

Giants CAN appear as bronze or silver monsters, since monsters don't automatically upgrade with the campaign (in contrast to Lts.), but must be upgraded for CT.

So, if you happen to meet "normal" giants on gold level they might still be on bronze level. Also, don't forget that named monsters also use the same stats as their current normal leveled equivalent.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Cooling Off The first card in a new plot deck for Descent: Road to Legend!

inle_badger — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:08:19 +0000

by inle_badger

And, an alternative to those fairly knock-off looking ice path tokens, I'd recommend using Frost tokens from AoD

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

corbon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:32:31 +0000

by corbon

jcb231 wrote:
And they were alright, but group consensus was that we'd rather feel like we were starting at the beginning and thus play a full game.

We are still in search of a shorter way to play though, a way that preserves some of the structure of the original game but just shortens it....hence the idea mentioned in the original post.

Ok.
I found that not allowing the OL to 'save' any CT from his starting allocation pretty much kept the games structure.
The heroes have the first 3-6 weeks worth of tiptoeing around dungeons trying to blitz them without letting the OL earn enough CT to get his first upgrade to gold monsters.
There are some silver monsters about, but since the heroes usually have at least one skill upgrade and at least 1 dice upgrade and most of the best bronze weapons (not to mention the Silver ones the start finding immediately) the Silver monsters aren't really much more challenging than bronze monsters are for starting hero parties.

However it did compress the map-board urgency somewhat, with Lts seiging cities in bulk very early on.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Treacherous Footing - the Second Card in the free downloadable Plot Deck

Aging One — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:22:30 +0000

by Aging One

From the Fantasy Flight Games website:

As the Summer heats up, Terrinoth, the world of Descent: Journeys in the Dark, grows colder. Ice is spreading across rivers and ponds, and snow falls in small flurries from the sky. In your home town of Tamalir, small groups of heroes are assembling to discover the source of this chiil wind.

As a special bonus to all fans of Descent, we are providing some free downloadable content to add to your Descent: Road to Legend game. Simply print out this card and you have a new plot to add to your Overlord's bag of tricks. Since plot cards do not need to be shuffled, you do not have to worry about sleeving this card or mounting it onto another card. This card is merely available when the heroes and Overlord begin a new Descent: Road to Legend campaign.

This second plot card, "Perilous Paths" will provide new fears as the heroes move about the land. Each path has the chance to prove deadly, as it makes tougher challenges a very real possibility.

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=648

Plot card: http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent/web_pl...

Icy Path tokens: http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent/web_pl...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

jcb231 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:03:34 +0000

by jcb231

And they were alright, but group consensus was that we'd rather feel like we were starting at the beginning and thus play a full game.

We are still in search of a shorter way to play though, a way that preserves some of the structure of the original game but just shortens it....hence the idea mentioned in the original post.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

corbon — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 02:18:36 +0000

by corbon

jcb231 wrote:
I have tried FFG's way, for both silver and gold starts.

And?

I'm enjoying our silver start with the aforementioned house rules.

File: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Monster stats for Rtl including AoD,WoD,ToI

tosc — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:37:57 +0000

by tosc

Monster stats for Rtl including AoD,WoD,ToI for Board Game: Descent: The Road to Legend ]]>

File: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Monster stats for Rtl including AoD,WoD,ToI

tosc — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:30:05 +0000

by tosc

Monster stats for Rtl including AoD,WoD,ToI for Board Game: Descent: The Road to Legend ]]>

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

jcb231 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:49:51 +0000

by jcb231

I have tried FFG's way, for both silver and gold starts.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

corbon — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:31:11 +0000

by corbon

jcb231 wrote:
Fantasy Flight's way of shortening the campaign is to start at Silver or Gold level. My group was pondering an alternative way of shortening the campaign and wanted to see if any othr groups had tried it, and if so what success/failure it may have met with.

BTW, forgot to ask...

Have you tried the FFG way?
Ok, it is obviously broken, but easily fixed.
Let the OL spend his CT too, but only on things he could buy in Bronze level.
If you want to keep the early bronze "don't let the OL get his first upgrade" pressure/playstyle going, then simply make the OL spend his CT or lose it before he starts.

I recommend also allowing at least one pre-raze for the OL. We used this as a way to limit the available skill combo's (because that is one of the greatest strengths the heroes get from a Silver start). Let the heroes choose a city/secret master to train from first, then the OL one to raze, then the heroes can choose their second city/secret master.

We are thoroughly enjoying our silver-start campaign.
It has turned into a real pressure cooker on the mapboard though, as the Titan has a very agressive starting spot and can be seiging multiple cities within a very few turns. Worse, my OL has both times razed cities on his first roll. The CT boost he gets from doing that has thrown my plans out enough that I am unlikely to be able to get Silver Secret Master Training before we flip into Gold - and I haven't yet had opportunity to take on the Lts.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

edroz — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:59:44 +0000

by edroz

shnar wrote:
When you flee a dungeon, you have to go back to Tamalir? I always thought you had the option, either the dungeon or Tamalir...

From the RtL rulebook, page 18:

Fleeing a Dungeon
If the heroes decide that things are too grim for them to continue on inside a dungeon, they can decide to leave a dungeon and not come back. To do this, they must simply all return to Tamalir at the same time (via glyphs of transport - see "Using Buildings" on page 21) and announce that they’re fleeing the dungeon. At such time the dungeon ends, the players must mark that dungeon location as explored on the campaign sheet (meaning that they may not re-enter it for the duration of the campaign), and the party marker is moved to the Tamalir space on the Terrinoth map.

Only if they defeat the dungeon and exit the third level via the portal may they stay at the dungeon (or return to Tamalir). (Also on page 18)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

shnar — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:00:49 +0000

by shnar

When you flee a dungeon, you have to go back to Tamalir? I always thought you had the option, either the dungeon or Tamalir...

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Rules question on Trait upgrades

katang — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:58:57 +0000

by katang

Thanks,
That makes more sense. I didn't see anything about it on the FAQ of Fantasy Flights website.

DRew

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Rules question on Trait upgrades

bleached_lizard — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:45:06 +0000

by bleached_lizard

It's a printing error. Heroes can upgrade as many dice as they like to gold at gold level.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Rules question on Trait upgrades

katang — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:03:51 +0000

by katang

I don't understand this section of the Descent:RtL rulebook on Page 23:

"Second, trait upgrades are limited based on the current
campaign level. In a Copper campaign, a hero can upgrade a
maximum of three of his black dice to silver dice, and may not
upgrade silver dice at all. In a Silver campaign, a hero can
upgrade as many of his black dice to silver dice as he wants,
but only a maximum of three of his silver dice to gold dice. In
a Gold campaign, a hero can upgrade as many of his black and
silver dice as he wants, but only a maximum of one silver die
to a gold die."

I may just be dense, but it seems that a hero can upgrade three silver dice to gold dice in a Silver campaign, but only one silver die to gold in a Gold campaign. This seems odd to me. It seems like you should be able to upgrade more dice in a gold campaign. If anybody has any insight, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Drew

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

Nessmk2 — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:06:00 +0000

by Nessmk2

It could perhaps, give the Overlord an edge if you didn't scale down all the CP needs/level barriers. It would mean the heroes would have to run to every dungeon on the map to get the CP they need, giving the overlord a huge boost in conquest due to razing.

It would overpower the heroes, though, with the rumors and special dungeons. One of the things that keeps them balanced is the fact that you MUST complete the ENTIRE dungeon to get them, meaning, no matter HOW bad things get, you either stick with it or lose the rumor/special dungeon reward.

Same with the keep. The OL wouldn't get nearly so many kills, and the heroes could snag just a few conquest on the last level to give themselves a boost.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

jcb231 — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:26:56 +0000

by jcb231

Good points all...some of these were voiced by my group but none of us were sure if we were just being paranoid and overthinking it.

Any suggestions for ways to perhaps balance the conquest?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

edroz — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:52:27 +0000

by edroz

SDeaver wrote:
It seems like it would remain balanced as long as both the heroes and the overlord earned similar amounts of conquest tokens. The heroes can earn a maximum of 6 per normal dungeon (discover + glyph + boss). That means the Overlord would need 2 hero kills on average to earn the same amount. I don't know how likely or unlikely this is.

It is my experience that the heroes hold the upper hand on the first level of the dungeon. The OL has fewer cards and threat. If the OL does not get very lucky with his draw, he might not see a spawn card in time to have any affect. Also, power cards would become completely meaningless except for the threat from discarding them.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

edroz — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:43:37 +0000

by edroz

corbon wrote:
jcb231 wrote:

Basically, the idea is that instead of doing three dungeon levels for each dungeon, we'd do one.

The heroes already pretty much have this option most of the time.

For the majority of dungeons entered, doing all three levels is simply poor hero play (until late silver of gold level at least).

However, if the party bails after the first level they head back to Tamalir. They then have to travel to a new dungeon. Thus giving the OL some extra CP and time to move and siege.

The OP is suggesting that all dungeons be only one level. Therefore, the heroes would do less traveling since they would have the option of staying at the dungeon once they complete the single level. This would reduce the amount of travel time thus reducing the time the OL has for overland actions.

Also, I believe rumor dungeons and the legendary dungeons are balanced so the OL gets the extra conquest by forcing the heroes through an entire dungeon. Making those dungeons one level would make most of them cakewalks.

This is of course speculation, but I would not make these changes.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

corbon — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:56:11 +0000

by corbon

jcb231 wrote:

Basically, the idea is that instead of doing three dungeon levels for each dungeon, we'd do one.

The heroes already pretty much have this option most of the time.

For the majority of dungeons entered, doing all three levels is simply poor hero play (until late silver of gold level at least).

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

SDeaver — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:32:22 +0000

by SDeaver

I was thinking about doing this exact same thing (one level per dungeon for all types), and wanted ideas on how to balance it. I have not played a RTL campaign yet.

It seems like it would remain balanced as long as both the heroes and the overlord earned similar amounts of conquest tokens. The heroes can earn a maximum of 6 per normal dungeon (discover + glyph + boss). That means the Overlord would need 2 hero kills on average to earn the same amount. I don't know how likely or unlikely this is.

The heroes would get far less treasure and gold using these rules. So while the Overlord would get fewer upgrades, the heroes would get fewer upgrades and less equipment at each level.

I'd love to hear if anyone thinks that this could work or if there is a way to make it work.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: A briefer campaign.....

edroz — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:07:49 +0000

by edroz

That plan would really favor the heroes. The OL is the weakest on the first level of a dungeon. By only doing that level I don't see how the overlord is going to have the opportunity to gather enough conquest to keep up.

Also,by reducing the amount of conquest needed for the new campaign levels, you will need to scale the OL upgrades as well. Otherwise, the OL upgrades will be over priced and the OL will not have enough conquest or time to power up.

That's my take on your plan.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: How in the heck do you run two separate, concurrent campaigns?

jcb231 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:21:50 +0000

by jcb231

We used the standard campaign sheets, but then simply gave each player a scrap of notepaper and had them write down specifically what they were putting in their hero box. The overlord did the same for his box and the graveyard. It didn't take more than a few minutes.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: RtL Dungeon Minions or Reinforcement Costs using ToI expansion monsters?

jcb231 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:18:34 +0000

by jcb231

TheGelatinousCube wrote:
They should have included a new avatar / lt. that utilized ToI.

Yup. I think a smaller Road to Legend expansion that assumes players have the other three "regular" expansions would be cool, even if it was only available by direct mail order and sold in plain box.

There could be a Dark Priest avatar (The Dark Bishop?), a Medusa avatar (The Serpent Queen?), and a Shade avatar (The Wraith King?), each with the proper enhancements and Lts. Such an expansion could also come with plastic figures for all avatars and Lts (I suggest blue for Lts and purple for avatars) Other cool additions would be a new plot, several new dungeon/encounter/location/rumor cards that utilize more of the expansion elements, and a chart of options "E" and "F" for all existing dungeons. Option E could include ToI monsters, and option F could incude a mix of all monsters. I would buy a RtoL expansion like that in a nano-second.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: A briefer campaign.....

jcb231 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:10:44 +0000

by jcb231

Fantasy Flight's way of shortening the campaign is to start at Silver or Gold level. My group was pondering an alternative way of shortening the campaign and wanted to see if any othr groups had tried it, and if so what success/failure it may have met with.

Basically, the idea is that instead of doing three dungeon levels for each dungeon, we'd do one. Ditto for Rumors, Legendary Areas, and the Keep. For those it would be just the level pictured. We felt like this would speed things up and put the focus on the world map. Seems like sometimes the big picture is lost while you trudge through three or four levels of a dungeon. Still a fun game, but it would be nice to have a rapid-fire alternative mode.

Also, we'd reduce the points needed to reach silver, gold, and keep levels, but we're not sure by how much.

Anybody try this?

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: A Question about Giants....

jcb231 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:58:24 +0000

by jcb231

I was just idly flipping through the game components the other day while putting it all away, and when I got to the monster cards I got to thinking about what monsters my group rarely encounters in RtoL. Eventually I actually took the time to go through the Rumors, Encounters, Spawn Cards, Minions, and Reinforcements to see what monsters appear in the game and which don't.

The result? I could find only basic type of monster that doesn't seem to appear, so I'm posting here to see if I've missed something. That monster is the un-named version of any basic or master copper/silver Giant. I can't find a single instance where a copper or silver un-named giant (master or basic) can appear in Road to Legend. Can you?

The only time "regular" giants appear in RtoL is in the Keep of the Titan, and the heroes can only run that at gold level, thus only encountering regular giants in gold or diamond form. Every other giant from a rumor or legendary area or whatever is named.

If I've missed something let me know. Also let me know if I've overlooked another "regular" monster type that cannot appear in the campaign...I was pretty thorough.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

DavidT — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:03:41 +0000

by DavidT

mbronkowski wrote:
DavidT wrote:

He's right. The dungeon card states that all monsters in that leader's section die when the leader dies. As for spawned monsters, I think they're included--the card doesn't make any distinctions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be.

Yes but as you said the card states that all monster in that leader's section die, so if heroes kill the demon who is in section 3 and the monsters from that section traveled to section 2 does that mean they don't get killed?

That's how we handled it. When in doubt, I always read the card literally. If it says all monsters in that section die, then all monsters in that section die. To interpret it any other way is to play the "What did the designer really intend?" game, which is impossible to win.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

mbronkowski — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:49:32 +0000

by mbronkowski

timstellmach wrote:
I have my doubts whether that was the intent, but then in a game as adversarial as this I hate to open any unnecessary debates.

:D that is not realy an option for me, my friends like to discuss everything, and unnessesery/pointless debates are thier specialty ;)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

timstellmach — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:21:56 +0000

by timstellmach

mbronkowski wrote:
Yes but as you said the card states that all monster in that leader's section die, so if heroes kill the demon who is in section 3 and the monsters from that section traveled to section 2 does that mean they don't get killed?

That's what it says, so that's what it means until they errata it.

On the flip side, a monster that was originally placed or was spawned in a different section can die by being in the same one as a dying leader.

I have my doubts whether that was the intent, but then in a game as adversarial as this I hate to open any unnecessary debates. Anything that's merely strange as opposed to unplayable, stands.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

mbronkowski — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:41:22 +0000

by mbronkowski

DavidT wrote:

He's right. The dungeon card states that all monsters in that leader's section die when the leader dies. As for spawned monsters, I think they're included--the card doesn't make any distinctions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be.

Yes but as you said the card states that all monster in that leader's section die, so if heroes kill the demon who is in section 3 and the monsters from that section traveled to section 2 does that mean they don't get killed?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

bleached_lizard — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:43:34 +0000

by bleached_lizard

mbronkowski wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.

This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.

Perhaps I didn't made myself clear, this particluar dungon level has 3 leaders/sections and special rules on the dungon card states that once the leader is killed all monsters from the current section die and a door to the next section opens. BTW I'm not sure what should happen with the spawneed monsters here but I assume only start monsters from a given section die.

Of course! Seems I forgot that rule too. :)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

DavidT — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:11:58 +0000

by DavidT

He's right. The dungeon card states that all monsters in that leader's section die when the leader dies. As for spawned monsters, I think they're included--the card doesn't make any distinctions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Rumors: Which are worth to pursue and which can be made nigh impossible by the OL?

eselred — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:59:49 +0000

by eselred

Another data point on Rumor 8: A Mother's Lament.

This is the one where the heroes have to save the griffon cub by having it exit through the portal. We played this rumor in our last session and they never had a chance. I simply kept a dark brotherhood spawn card back with a charge card and waited for them to release the cub. As soon as they did, I sent a diamond-level master dark priest around the corner and killed it in one shot. 8 wounds and 4 armor are not enough to survive at gold level. Perhaps during copper, they would have had a chance.

My heroes aren't usually very careful about covering lines of sight, so it certainly would have helped if they had shut down my ability to spawn before releasing the cub. Also, they could have formed a wall to protect the cub, but they all just ran for it, assuming I wouldn't be able to do anything in the two turns it would take them to get the cub out. I wouldn't say it was impossible for them to win, but they really didn't have much of a chance.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

mbronkowski — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:42:28 +0000

by mbronkowski

bleached_lizard wrote:
mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.

This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.

Perhaps I didn't made myself clear, this particluar dungon level has 3 leaders/sections and special rules on the dungon card states that once the leader is killed all monsters from the current section die and a door to the next section opens. BTW I'm not sure what should happen with the spawneed monsters here but I assume only start monsters from a given section die.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

bleached_lizard — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:48:44 +0000

by bleached_lizard

mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.

This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.

Anyway I have another question, the heroes are carying a quest item (first scroll of light) what will happen with the item if they will flee the dungeon... it can't be simply left behind because it's a legendary area where my LTs cannot enter.

They keep the scroll. Again, they only drop it if defeated in a LT encounter.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Cooling Off The first card in a new plot deck for Descent: Road to Legend!

Aulayan — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:14:18 +0000

by Aulayan

Guys, it's better than you think.

"As a special bonus to all fans of Descent, we are providing some free downloadable content to add to your Descent: Road to Legend game. Simply print out this card and you have a new plot to add to your Overlord's bag of tricks. Since plot cards do not need to be shuffled, you do not have to worry about sleeving this card or mounting it onto another card. This card is merely available when the heroes and Overlord begin a new Descent: Road to Legend campaign.

Over the course of the next few weeks, we will be releasing the remaining cards from this new Overlord plot deck that you can use in your Descent: Road to Legend campaign. "

As you can tell, this isn't an announcement or tease to an expansion or extension. This is merely a free new plot that they'll release all of the cards to online. And as the text says, since plot cards require no shuffling, all this needs to be played is a printer, ink, and paper. (well and Descent + RtL + Tomb of Ice, but that was a given)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

mbronkowski — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:59:31 +0000

by mbronkowski

Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.
Anyway I have another question, the heroes are carying a quest item (first scroll of light) what will happen with the item if they will flee the dungeon... it can't be simply left behind because it's a legendary area where my LTs cannot enter.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

Nessmk2 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:53:30 +0000

by Nessmk2

I would even temper the "Two shuffle eject" rule with common sense. If the first suffle is right at the start of the level, I wouldn't count it. The rule's there to stop heroes from dragging their feet to play it uber-safe, or for overlords to somehow stop the heroes from fleeing and thereby racking up cycle conquest, right? If the heroes aren't stalling, and the OL isn't blocking, I'd say ignore the rule unless things get crazy.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

corbon — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:00:09 +0000

by corbon

mbronkowski wrote:
I have played my first time RtL this week, for some time it was preaty fun and ballanced. The herose were a little behind the overloard and decided to visit a legendary area. We were on a copper level of the campaign, heroes had a team of two figthers one mage and one rouge. They already had every item they wanted from the copper deck and a couple of extra black power dices. (I think 2 herose had 1 extra and 2 heros had 2 extra dices). Overloard had already bought 3 avatars (they are realy cheap) and upgraded eldrih monsters to silver. Now here is the problem the first level of dungon contained 3 leaders, hell hound, dragon and a demon (I think it was number 34 but I ma be wrong). They managed to kill the hell hound and a dragon with not to much trouble, but the demon is an eldrih monster so we used silver stats for it. The problem is the heros were practicly unable to harm the deamon, it has fear 3 and 6 armor so on avarge thro they did about 0-3 damage and the demon had 39 health, on top of that he has a very powerful attack that eventualy killed even the heavy armored characters.
Since they where unable to kill the demon it rised the question should the named monsters stats be based on the campaign level (more like lieutenants) or on the purchased upgrades? It seams unfair that the herose can find a dungeon compleatly unbeatable because OL purchased a monster upgrade.

1. You get the good and the bad. Most of the Bosses you fight in Bronze will only be Bronze, a few will be silver. Later, some of the bosses you fight in Silver, and maybe even gold will still be bronze.

2. Demons are real tough, and really rare (that might be the only level with a Demon boss?).
To get through Armour 6 and Fear 3, with bronze treasures only, you need Power Pots (and/or fatigue spent on dice upgrades), possibly even aimed power pots. A power pot shot from a Tank with 4 melee dice and a Dragontooth Hammer will do 7-9 damage per attack on that Demon, not including any damage bonuses from skills or items. It will still be slow going, and painful, but it is achievable.

3. That is the toughest level to beat IMO. At least one other level can be as tough under certain circumstances, but not as consistantly tough. It sucks that you drew it in a special dungeon, but them's the breaks. Similar to getting a 'Lost' encounter when desparately trying to get a secret master training before the campaign level switches, or when trying to intercept a Lt before a city is razed.

Basically, shit happens. Sorry man, but the chances are small. OL's gotta have some breaks as well.

also there is a rule in the FAQ that when overlord is forced to reshuffle his deck for the secound time, heroes are ejected from the dungeon and they can never revisit, does this count for legendary areas because as I seen the firs one is preaty huge and I think it can be realy difficult to end it before secound reshuffle.

That rule is operable 'per level'. Even on a legendary area where the OL has got Evil Genius in play you should still manage to complete the final level within 12-16 turns minimum (assuming the first cycle was almost immediately within the level, and depending on how many expansions you are playing with). If teh Ol is close to cycling on the 3rd level, you might find delaying the ascent to the final level for a turn or two is worth while, but even then, I think that you must simply be playing too slowly.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Some ballance concerns

DavidT — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:44:29 +0000

by DavidT

The heroes only get the boot if the OL cycles his deck twice on the same dungeon level. That should help.

As for the balance concerns, it sounds like your heroes just got unlucky. Demons are one of the toughest monsters to beat, in my experience, due to the Fear skill and high health. Make sure you don't use the Soar power indoors, though--that one caught us the first time our heroes faced a dragon in a dungeon, which kind of screwed things up.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Some ballance concerns

mbronkowski — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:58:51 +0000

by mbronkowski

I have played my first time RtL this week, for some time it was preaty fun and ballanced. The herose were a little behind the overloard and decided to visit a legendary area. We were on a copper level of the campaign, heroes had a team of two figthers one mage and one rouge. They already had every item they wanted from the copper deck and a couple of extra black power dices. (I think 2 herose had 1 extra and 2 heros had 2 extra dices). Overloard had already bought 3 avatars (they are realy cheap) and upgraded eldrih monsters to silver. Now here is the problem the first level of dungon contained 3 leaders, hell hound, dragon and a demon (I think it was number 34 but I ma be wrong). They managed to kill the hell hound and a dragon with not to much trouble, but the demon is an eldrih monster so we used silver stats for it. The problem is the heros were practicly unable to harm the deamon, it has fear 3 and 6 armor so on avarge thro they did about 0-3 damage and the demon had 39 health, on top of that he has a very powerful attack that eventualy killed even the heavy armored characters.
Since they where unable to kill the demon it rised the question should the named monsters stats be based on the campaign level (more like lieutenants) or on the purchased upgrades? It seams unfair that the herose can find a dungeon compleatly unbeatable because OL purchased a monster upgrade.
also there is a rule in the FAQ that when overlord is forced to reshuffle his deck for the secound time, heroes are ejected from the dungeon and they can never revisit, does this count for legendary areas because as I seen the firs one is preaty huge and I think it can be realy difficult to end it before secound reshuffle.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: RtL and corrupted terrain

Splurk — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:41:07 +0000

by Splurk

Okay, thank you, i dont remember reading that anywhere, guess its time to read through the books yet again, sigh

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: RtL and corrupted terrain

edroz — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:39:43 +0000

by edroz

I believe the only RtL level with corrupted terrain is Rumor 12: Dust to Dust.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: RtL and corrupted terrain

saltopus — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:52:16 +0000

by saltopus

The red parts of nearly every dungeon are not corrupted. They mark the area where the overloard cannot spawn his initial (lookup table) monsters. So they are kind of a positive effect for the heros.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: RtL and corrupted terrain

Splurk — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:26:29 +0000

by Splurk

Are the red sections on the maps for RtL dungeons corrupted? cause i noticed some of them red areas are 4x2 corridors and i don't have any 4x2 red corridors. Also if those are Corrupted then nearly every dungeon has corrupted area, and that's a heck of a lot of corrupted for the heroes to deal with, so I'm guessing its not, but i wanna be sure.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Multiple Overlords, with their own Avatar.

Svenjard — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:28:03 +0000

by Svenjard

Well, I find itnteresting, but I have no comments so far... :)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Cooling Off The first card in a new plot deck for Descent: Road to Legend!

btizo — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:30:44 +0000

by btizo

edroz wrote:
"Ice Path tokens"

Could just be the Ice Tokens from Tomb of Ice....

I think an expansion to an expansion is a funny thing... Maybe an Extension?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Re: Cooling Off The first card in a new plot deck for Descent: Road to Legend!

edroz — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:14:08 +0000

by edroz

FFG seems to be building up to GenCon. They have been posting a lot of news lately. Hopefully we will see one or more small expansions for RtL announced before or at GenCon. The teaser mentions a "new plot deck". The question is, is the plot deck a separate expansion or part of a complete RtL expansion? The teaser card mentions "Ice Path tokens" which would be new.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: News:: Cooling Off The first card in a new plot deck for Descent: Road to Legend!

Aging One — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:47:30 +0000

by Aging One

Teaser: http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=634

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Descent online dice roller

whipko — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:06:18 +0000

by whipko

Hi guys,

I looking for the link whereby there is a descent online dice roller with updated stealth dice and calculated damage and surge.

thanks

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

DavidT — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:43:19 +0000

by DavidT

Having played through the rumor dungeon last night, I'm not convinced that it's a bad level for the OL, at all. It was a night of absolute despair and frustration for our heroes last night, so I agree with those pointing out that it's all situational. I hadn't even looked ahead to see what the dungeon level was like ahead of time, so I wasn't "prepared" in any way other than having about 16 Threat saved up to start.

Frequent spawning and the heroes' uncertainty over what exactly to do led to a huge CP boon in the OL's favor. So much so that we're going to have to look at options to give the heroes a new edge--such as maybe adding Feats.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

redneedle — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:55:49 +0000

by redneedle

MordredofFairy wrote:
when my group played this level, they figured out the demon was trapped. so they spread out(2 guys in first room, 2 guys in the corridors, and boggs next to the crystal)...effectively shutting down spawning. The 2 ranged guys in the corridors then took turns at hitting the demon...even with the extra armor, there was little it could do to prevent being killed.(it was a silver, and campaign was silver...didn't get to upgrade him to gold then). after he was killed, they killed the crystal at their convenience and left.

kudos to your group, then, but your OL was stupid(not meant as negative as that sounds).

when my group played this level there was a CP deadline not to push the campaign to silver. The only hero without a shop weapon(ranged at that) kept getting sent back to town the hard way and those losses closed the gap to where the CP gain in our favour would have pushed us over the limit.

While admittedly Copper Treasure weapons are rather situational, they are not needed to crush the heroes in certain areas. A Crushing Blow card to take out a rune with explosion or a monster upgrade(silver to gold) and maybe a trap card to neutralize a declared battle action mad carthos moving with fatigue are all handy tools the OL has. So either our OL does a really great job, or your OL lacks any sense of planning/tactical forethought...i do claim though, that after two dungeon levels before the rumor level the OL should have all the tools he needs to make the level in his favor.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

edroz — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:25:04 +0000

by edroz

MordredofFairy wrote:
kudos to you, then, but your group was stupid(not meant as negative as that sounds).

Sorry, but it came across as very negative. Several of the hero players are on BGG and at least one of them has made the comment back to me that they don't like being called stupid.

As to the level, there are way too many random factors involved with Descent to claim that any particular level is always cake walk or unwinnable. The heroes involved, their skills and weapons, the level of the monsters and how well prepared the OL is for the level are major factors. And let's not forget the dice. Misses at critical times can really swing the results either way.

In your case, the heroes had the right combination of skills and weapons to handle the level. Or, possibly the OL was not well stocked in traps and other tricks to deal with the level. Maybe he could have used crushing blow on the blast weapon to remove that threat.

In our case, the heroes had a more difficult time. I present our results as a counter point to the stated view that the rumor level was a cake walk for the heroes.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Rumors: Which are worth to pursue and which can be made nigh impossible by the OL?

corbon — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:25:11 +0000

by corbon

The_Immortal wrote:
By the "hurry" treachery card, are you in fact referring to Urgency? If so, I believe Urgency does not in fact give you Threat for discarding the cards - it simply burns through the deck much, much faster and lets you cycle more often (and get more CT for doing so). If you were playing that it gives you threat for the cards, that would explain why you found the rumor to be unbeatable. Without misinterpreting that card in that manner, it's impossible to get up to 15 Threat per turn as income.

Also, if the Heroes have Wind Pact (and it's my belief that they should), it gets really hard to save up a 'perfect' hand of cards for a particular situation. That should save the Heroes from some of these 'unbeatable' situations.

+1 to both points.

I got smashed by the heroes doing the Twins rumour. Partly because it is during Gold level, but also because during the entire rumour level I did not get a single spawn spot (well, not quite true, I played an ice trap to slow them down at the start, and in the last turn was able to spawn monsters at the starting area behind the ice). The Areas are so small that there is little available room for spawns with fast moving heroes, and worse, the get to frequently Wind Pact out anything useful. Diamond Razorwings anyone? Gone. Ambush? Gone. Dark Charm (my best bet for killing a twin apart from the Razorwings)? Gone.
Suck.

However in bronze and silver we basically have found Rumours a pointless waste of time. You just can't afford to go all the way through dungeons against a competent OL. Not if you want to do Legendary dungeons, have some time and opportunity to get some decent treasures (ie, more weeks rather than less), and have time to do secret master trainings (let alone other training!). Inevitably you get 1 or 2 really nasty levels come up, the OL gets out Evil Genius on level one, or something similar. The problem with rumours is that you have to commit to them.

One full 4-level dungeon and 1 full 3-level dungeon will usually end up being something like 100-120 CT combined, possibly more with a rumour. It is just too high a proportion of the available level time, especially when you add in 30-50 CT in early bronze of blitzing and keeping the OL below 25CT.

By late silver or gold though, the heroes can generally go fast enough that rumours are pretty easy. However by then, you are looking at how many gold items you could get access to by slowing the campaign down, rather than speeding it up, so it is still not an easy decision to go for rumours.

Note: my perceptions may be coloured by an approximately 33% strike rate with getting treasures from chests and a more than double the odds strike rate of getting market shortages, combined with a more than triple the odds of getting a 'bad' treasure instead of a 'good' treasure (eg Eyes of Thara compared to a Armour, or fancy dagger compared to 2H weapon).
Consequently just getting 'access' to more treasure draws (be they market or dungeon) is a significant portion of my planning.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Rumors: Which are worth to pursue and which can be made nigh impossible by the OL?

The_Immortal — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:07:37 +0000

by The_Immortal

By the "hurry" treachery card, are you in fact referring to Urgency? If so, I believe Urgency does not in fact give you Threat for discarding the cards - it simply burns through the deck much, much faster and lets you cycle more often (and get more CT for doing so). If you were playing that it gives you threat for the cards, that would explain why you found the rumor to be unbeatable. Without misinterpreting that card in that manner, it's impossible to get up to 15 Threat per turn as income.

Also, if the Heroes have Wind Pact (and it's my belief that they should), it gets really hard to save up a 'perfect' hand of cards for a particular situation. That should save the Heroes from some of these 'unbeatable' situations.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Rumors: Which are worth to pursue and which can be made nigh impossible by the OL?

MordredofFairy — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:09:48 +0000

by MordredofFairy

Hi all,
the reason i am asking this, here, is because last night, rumor 3, prince of thieves, came up.
Knowing i would need threat to keep him alive, i played evil genius and the "hurry" treachery card(the one where you discard 2 cards for threat at beginning of every turn) as my might cards...additionally, i was the sorcerer king for another bonus threat/round. I had also saved up some threat from before.

Now, with 5 cards per round to discard and 5 threat gained naturally, my average "income" was more than 15 threat per round. So i could spawn the leader, attack, and inmediately remove him again.
Now, the heroes tried using guard orders, but unless all 4 are proficient with ranged weapons and have one available, there's always safe spots to spawn and disappear. eventually, they gave up on it since i could have cycled my deck twice for conquest and ejecting them(and occasionally had enough to pay a card extra(crushing block came to mind)...

so with some preparation, it was basically impossible for them to do this rumor.

A little while ago, we had Rumor 1: The Twins, where i saved up a "lights out"-card allowing spawning beyond 5 fields, a dead legion card(but really, substitute anything fast or with range...razorwings if beasts are upgraded etc...), 2 double-movement cards, 2 aim-cards and a "double move, double attack"-treachery-card. I claim that with a "allow spawning beyond 5 fields", a spawn card, and the 2 movement cards, it should be impossible for most groups to prevent one of the boys being killed before they get out...and the master sorcerers can be used incredibly offensive here, since the heroes CAN'T kill them before they are ready(everything else killed and in position to prevent spawning....which also includes being on opposite areas on the map dealing damage to each other when moving).
I really can't see the heroes win that one if the OL prepares even in the slightest...(or has INCREDIBLY bad luck with the dice)...

I don't remember if Rumor 8: A mothers Lament requires the cub to exit through the portal, if so, i could imagine it to have similar problems...

on the other hand, i was UNDERwhelmed by "The Dark Shard"...easy to blast the starting area loadout, a trapped leader, and possible to basically shut down or severely limit spawning...

what is your experience with rumors? which one's are worth pursuing?
That is, to the Overlords the reverse Question: What's your strategy for the Rumors, if you have one?

Most of my partys decide that if they go through a whole dungeon(after blitzing early) they want to get a reward for that, and do rumors...of course, that allows the OL to prepare for that final level...so how do you do that? Any other "unbeatable" strategies(for both Overlord and Hero side)?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

MordredofFairy — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:43:20 +0000

by MordredofFairy

kudos to you, then, but your group was stupid(not meant as negative as that sounds).

when my group played this level, they figured out the demon was trapped. so they spread out(2 guys in first room, 2 guys in the corridors, and boggs next to the crystal)...effectively shutting down spawning. The 2 ranged guys in the corridors then took turns at hitting the demon...even with the extra armor, there was little it could do to prevent being killed.(it was a silver, and campaign was silver...didn't get to upgrade him to gold then). after he was killed, they killed the crystal at their convenience and left.

Considering further that much of the starting loadout of area 1 was taken out in ONE aimed double-blast attack from mad carthos who moved with fatigue, with the other players cleaning up(effectively leaving nothing alive and shutting down spawning before overlords first turn).

While admittedly Boggs is rather situational, he is not even needed to make this level surprisingly easy for the heroes. the fact the starting area loadout is incredibly vulnerable to explosion, and the level leader trapped(and thus unable to deal damage unless the heroes allow him to), means you are limited to a few units left and whatever you spawn. So either you did a really great job on that level, or your players made some serious tactical mistakes...i do claim though, that as long as the hero's have someone ranged and/or a rune with explosion, that level is very much in their favor.

Session: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Campaign 2: Sorcerer King bringing on the Endless Night - Part 7

edroz — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:44:48 +0000

by edroz

Previous reports:
Session 1 / Session 2 / Session 3 / Session 4 / Session 5 / Session 6

Overlord
Avatar: Sorcerer King
Conquest: 129 total / 54 unspent
Upgrades: Snipers. Silver Eldritch, Sir Alric Farrow, Lord Merick Farrow, Lady Eliza Farrow, 2 Event Treachery, 1 Trap Treachery

Party
Conquest: 55
Money: 1500
Upgrades: Bazaar, Enchanted Boat, Kerak’s Map
Nanok of the Blade: 19 XP. 2 additional black power dice, Taunt, Mace of Aver, Axe, Ring of Protection
Varikas the Dead: 29 XP. 1 silver melee power die upgrade, Leadership, Plate Mail, Skull Shield, Iron Shield, Sword
Landrec the Wise: 49 XP. Quick Casting, Ghost Armor, Elven Robe, Mana Weave, Immolation Rune, Sunburst Rune
Grey Ker: 29 XP. 1 silver range power die upgrade, Eagle Eye, Archer’s Charm, Ripper, Crossbow, Chain Mail, Crystal Shield

Our group had a running email discussion between sessions. Basically, the heroes were demoralized after the last session. Three lieutenants were poised on the doorstep of Tamalir, the party had been stripped of several copper weapons last session, they were low on cash and did not have enough time to hit both the special training and the copper legendary dungeon. Personally, I didn’t want to "win" the game razing Tamalir. Been there, done that. I wanted to see if the OL can win via the plot and/or the final battle. Yes, I have read a lot that the final battle is very hard to win for the OL. But, Descent is as much an experience game as a competitive game and I wanted to explore more of the game.

In the end we agreed to make sure the game continued. The OL would not raze Tamalir (yet) and would give the heroes a saving throw when using Crushing Blow (a blank on a power die). The heroes’ plan was to spend the last of their money on the Staff of the Wild and race to the Caverns of Thuul to raise some cash. In doing so they would miss out on the copper level special training, but that was pretty much out anyway. They would then train and hit the silver legendary dungeon. Once they were done with that, we would reevaluate the campaign.

With that decided, we began playing. We pick up the action with the party recovering in Tamalir from the total party kill during the encounter at the end of last session.

Overlord CP shown in [], Hero CP shown in ()

Week 19:
With the two city razes during week 18 I am now getting 3 conquest a week. [+3 CP] This is another reason for the heroes needing to buy the Staff of the Wild. The extra conquest would really add up if they are plodding along one trail at a time. With the hope of being able to refill my XP total during the copper legendary dungeon, I power up my arsenal by buying a second point of Trap treachery. [-10 XP] Sir Alric and Lord Merrick meet in Tamalir and scout out the city, gathering information for later use. Lady Eliza moves to the Bitter Downs with new instructions from the Sorcerer King.

Feeling a chill in the air from the presence of the two evil lieutenants in town, the heroes move north to Greyhaven. It was a peaceful trip. Even through the party has just enough money to buy the Staff of the Wild, they decide to check out the market as well, just in case. And what shows up? The Staff of the Grave! Argh! I just destroyed that last dungeon!

Tempted by the need for a decent copper weapon and the need of the Staff of the Wild, the heroes sell off every backup weapon they have and Varikas’ sword to have just enough money to buy both staffs. This leaves Varikas with no weapon! They figure they can buy the sword back with the first pile of gold from the dungeon. Basically, they pawned Varikas’ sword for the Staff.

CP: Heroes: 55 / OL: 132 / 47

Week 20:
Another easy week for me as I get my conquest handout [+3 CP] and continue beefing up by purchasing my third point of Trap treachery [-10 XP]. The Farrow brothers move out to the Red Echo River and Lady Eliza moves to the Smokeblue Hills. Powered by their new Staff of the Wild, the heroes move directly to the Caverns of Thuul (+1 CP). They elect to roll on the low probably green encounter and therefore have a safe and quiet trip.

The Caverns of Thuul Level 1: 40 : Shreds of Night
Given that the heroes were planning to do the three levels plus the legendary level of this dungeon, I was prepared to concede this first level and prep for the lower levels. However, when the level came up with a dragon as the level leader I had to try to delay the heroes as long as possible. I went with the Master Beastman for the command boost and the kobolds to provide targets.

Early on the heroes moved up and took out a couple of the early kobold cannon fodder. However, they seemed to forget about the dragon’s breath attack. After spawning some skeletons and taking some pot shots at the heroes I attacked with the dragon. I was able to play Charge and have extra movement to attack and retreat. The dragon raced up, breathed on three of the heroes and then raced backed.

More cautious, the heroes advanced, taking out more kobolds and picked up the first gold pile. As Landrec moved up to take a shot on the dragon he fell into a pit for the OL’s first kill of the dungeon [+3 CP]. Nanok eventually makes a run for the dragon. Quaffing a power potion the mighty Nanok takes swing at the menacing beast and misses! Strike one. Grey Ker takes his shot at the dragon with super range and pierce. When we count up the attack damage we see the Grey Ker has no surges to conquer the dragon induced fear. Strike two. At the start of the Overlord’s turn, Nanok takes his guard order attack (from Varikas’ leadership) and misses again. Strike three! Hero frustration sets in.

The dragon, skeletons and master kobold gang up on Nanok but cannot bring him down. However, the attacks leave Nanok barely alive. As Nanok makes the run to the glyph (hoping to open a back door for Landrec to return) a crushing block finds Nanok’s head sending him to visit Landrec at the healing temple. [+4 CP]. This leaves Grey Ker to make the run to the glyph which he survives (for now). (+3 CP)

The two remaining skeletons and dragon leave Grey Ker burning with one hit point. So, at the start of Ker’s next turn he fails his saving throw and turns into Crispy Ker. [+3 CP]. On the OL turn I draw one of the power cards I was waiting for, Evil Genius. I was saving threat just in case this showed up so I was able to play it right away.

The heroes were finally able to clear out the supporting cast of skeletons and master kobold and ganged up on the dragon. They were able to take down the dragon with Grey Ker’s massive pierce attack getting through the dragon’s armor, (+2 CP) but not before Landrec wasted another power potion on a missed attack.

With the level cleared, Nanok makes for the chest which explodes in his face. This is not enough to take him out, but he’s hurting. The chest gives up two potions and some gold, but no treasure. Level conquest totals: OL: 10, Heroes 7

CP: Heroes: 62 / OL: 145 / 50

The Caverns of Thuul Level 2: 16 : What Lies Beneath
Hurting from the chest fragments still embedded in his tough skin, Nanok starts off by heading to the temple to heal. Meanwhile, Grey Ker leads the remaining heroes into the level and triggers my first new treacherous surprise, the scything blade trap across the entry hallway. Grey Ker and the others end up taking some damage and bleed tokens which will take their toll in a bit.

After the heroes took out a Bane Spider on the first turn I spawned some beastmen to go with the starting monsters. With no taunting Nanok around they ganged up on Grey Ker leaving him with two hit points. Landrec was able to blast the beastmen and a spider. However, the bleeding Ker loses just enough blood to drop dead [+3 CP] giving him the honor of the first hero to both burn and bleed to death. With Nanok just returning from town, Varikas took up the tanking chore but since he still had no weapon, he was only able to do basic melee attacks.

I then Dark Charmed Landrec but his blast on Varikas did no damage however it did blast back on Landrec himself. I spawned some Dark Priests who quickly took on Nanok. With a full charged Critical Strike attack on Nanok, the master priest was able to send Nanok back for a full recharge at the temple. [+4 CP] The remaining monsters were able to gang up Landrec and Varikas sending Landrec to the healers [+3 CP] and leaving Varikas with one hit point.

The three recently deceased heroes return to help Varikas clear a path through the monsters. Nanok makes the run for the glyph (+3 CP). Eventually the dark priests gets through Varikas’ armor and double shield defense and finally bring down the undead warrior [+5 CP]. Varikas returns through the newly opened glyph to dig up one of the encounter tokens to find the Staff of Punishment.

I was not out of tricks yet. Since Landrec had finally equipped the Staff of the Grave, I played my second Dark Charm (more trap treachery). This charmed attack did much more damage and greatly hurt Grey Ker. The remaining dark priest was able to finish Ker off [+3 CP]. Some newly spawned sorcerers and the manticore level leader were able to gang up on the twice cursed Landrec, sending him back to town. [+4 CP]

Grey Ker quickly returned and was able to kill the level leader (+2 CP) but not before getting hit with a crushing block trap. The remaining sorcerer was able to finish the job and sent Grey Ker packing again [+3 CP]. Just before the heroes left the level I was able to cycle my deck. [+3 CP] Also during this level I was able to get the Trapmaster power card in play. Level conquest totals: OL: 28, Heroes 5

CP: Heroes: 67 / OL: 173 / 78
Total Conquest: 240

Comments:
I think today was a bit of a draw. The heroes did accomplish what they set out for, getting more cash. After these two levels they have about 2400 gold. With one more level plus the final legendary level they may leave the dungeon well funded. They also have restocked with a few copper level weapons, increasing their firepower again.

However, for the Overlord, I got a total of 38 conquest to 12 for the heroes. I am also well stocked for the next level with 37 threat, a mostly full hand of cards, a fresh deck and two good power cards in play.

Overall we are sitting at 240 total conquest so the campaign will go to Silver level after this dungeon. In fact, we could be well into the silver level after this dungeon. With the conquest I have now plus 3 conquest a week, I will be able to do a complete round of monster upgrades after this dungeon.

A carefully reader will note that I cycled my deck and did not play Crushing Blow. With a bit of a soft spot I left it out of my deck this dungeon. It’s not gone for good, it’s just resting. I was happy that my other treachery did well. The Critical Strike did its job by allowing me to basically one-shot the tank Nanok. The scything blade was perfectly placed in an entry hallway forcing the heroes to pass through it multiple times. And with Trapmaster now in play the extra traps in the deck will be causing even more havoc during the next two levels.

I’m itching to get back to the table and complete this dungeon but it’s going to be several weeks before we can get the gang back together. So until then, happy descending.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

edroz — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:25:05 +0000

by edroz

MordredofFairy wrote:
well, since he can't move and can't place orders, plus most parties have ranged guys around, i doubt he will do you much good, even with beastman and rage card... but hey, you're welcome. I actually would have preferred this level to have the leader free-roaming, maybe slowed down or something -_- as is, it was quite a disappointment.

so i'd tell them as little as needed, possibly dropping hints sometimes, when they might need them.

Well, I crushed the heroes on this level. So much so they didn't finish because they were bleeding conquest. If the OL prepares for the level (it is the third level of the dungeon) he can make it tough on the heroes.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: [Poll]: how many "points" is each monster worth?

MordredofFairy — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:22:05 +0000

by MordredofFairy

i am shocked, shocked!
that tibbs2 put master naga into tier 5, along with master dark priests...below a golem :P

anyway, aside from the nice threat input and consistently high damage output of master dark priests, who are not the topic here:

master naga's for me, are situationally up there with master demons and dragons(well, a little behind since they don't invoke fear, but hey)...

with their dice, sorcery, and commando, they have potentially the highest damage output(well, aside from some lucky troll combo's, maybe?), and especially the commando also helps the minions around them-... i am not saying they should be WAY up there as it's very situational, but in-dungeon, soaring/flying is worth nothing, so depending on the situation, the other load-out, and the dungeon layout, i may choose a master naga even over a master dragon...(not over a master demon though, i guess...)

aside from that, great work...(i saw the current version of the finished work-)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

MordredofFairy — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:53:06 +0000

by MordredofFairy

well, since he can't move and can't place orders, plus most parties have ranged guys around, i doubt he will do you much good, even with beastman and rage card... but hey, you're welcome. I actually would have preferred this level to have the leader free-roaming, maybe slowed down or something -_- as is, it was quite a disappointment.

so i'd tell them as little as needed, possibly dropping hints sometimes, when they might need them.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dark Shard Rumor

edroz — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:35:04 +0000

by edroz

DavidT wrote:
We're gearing up for our next game this week, and the heroes will be entering the third (and last) level of their first rumor dungeon--The Dark Shard. I have a couple of questions I'd like to clear up in preparation:

1. Is the Demon Leader on this level really trapped in place until the shard is destroyed?

The demon is kind of stuck there until the shard is destroyed. He can move forward and back a spot or two. Remember that the demon's attack is magic (ie. ranged) and that the shard does not block LOS. If you can, spawn/place a master beastman or two near or behind the demon and watch the fireworks. Also, save a rage card for double attack.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Any house rules for 1st time RtL players

corbon — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:51:06 +0000

by corbon

The only significant house rule I'd make is that the first 'campaign' doesn't count and either side can quit at any time for a restart.

RtL is incredibly finely balanced. But only if the heroes in particular, and the OL a little less so, play very very smart.

Minor strategic errors get heavily punished.
Minor tactical errors often throw the strategic game plan right out the window.
Luck (timing) is important for the heroes. A 'Lost' encounter at the wrong time can ruin an entire campaign level's worth of planning and shift the overall result balance by at least 10% (ie 50/50 to 60/40 for example). The same Lost encounter at another time could be essentially meaningless

What that basically means, is that first time players make all sorts of horrible mistakes that they don't even understand are mistakes. They then spend the rest of the campaign paying for them - especially as the balance is one of resources, so screwing up early and giving the other side a resource advantage is an exponential problem (well, it is a relatively flat curve, but it is still exponential in nature).

It is very easy for the heroes to screw up (they have many more decision points and much more consequence on each decision), much more difficult for the OL to screw up. Thus, many, even most, parties consider that the game is heavily unbalanced against the heroes.
IMO however the game is actually unbalanced against the OL, because Gold level is so one-sided that it is ridiculous (Gold items are just crazy when you can have 2-3 each, + the best Silvers as backup!) and as long as the heroes play smart they can stay in touch in bronze and silver. Most important point - the heroes control the game, not the OL.

Since the heroes control the game and have more decision points, with greater consequences (which are not always readily apparent unless you are a very talented analyst), it is very likely that the heroes will screw the game up on their first attempt. Hence I think that playing a little and then restarting is not a bad thing.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: CT's: What am I doing wrong?

corbon — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:25:13 +0000

by corbon

The_Immortal wrote:
Doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything particularly wrong.

Most people don't realize that Copper monsters are *really* weak. If the Heroes play smart and maximize the window in which they're facing only Copper monsters, they can do really well in the early game. Getting up to 46 CT before letting you get a Silver monster upgrade, it sounds like that's exactly what your Heroes did. There's not much you can do once the Heroes realize that THEY control the pace of the game.

I agree, although only 6 kills of weaker heroes in a full 3 level dungeon is a bit below par early on unless your heroes are very good and very lucky. Only a bit below par though.

And smart heroes with a good party dynamic and even a few treasures can make things impossible for you. I've done 3 separate levels as play by plays with starting heroes and 1 treasure (and 1 potion) each which are able to clear an entire level (with sensibly prepared minions, ie tough selection and best deployment) while allowing the OL only 1 turn, no spawns and only sometimes the opportunity for a single 2CT kill if lucky. It is not usually that bad, but it could be.

You are resetting the reinforcement marker on each level?

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Dark Shard Rumor

DavidT — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:09:23 +0000

by DavidT

We're gearing up for our next game this week, and the heroes will be entering the third (and last) level of their first rumor dungeon--The Dark Shard. I have a couple of questions I'd like to clear up in preparation:

1. Is the Demon Leader on this level really trapped in place until the shard is destroyed?

2. How do you explain the extra rules for the dungeon to the players without giving them information from the section you're not supposed to read to them?

Would you just tell them the leader has four extra armor, then amend that once the shard is destroyed?

Would you tell them the shard blocks movement when they first enter the room and see it, or would you just wait until they try to move through it? I could see a big difference in their initial strategy if they know going in that the demon is stuck.

3. For those who've played this dungeon, how long has it generally taken the hero players to discover that they must start attacking the shard? Nothing in the quest text read to the heroes indicates that this is the proper course of action, so I'm hoping it actually takes them a couple of turns. I could see a group actually thinking that they will get the gem once the demon is destroyed and making life much more painful for themselves.

Thanks for any answers!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: CT's: What am I doing wrong?

The_Immortal — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:54:24 +0000

by The_Immortal

Doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything particularly wrong.

Most people don't realize that Copper monsters are *really* weak. If the Heroes play smart and maximize the window in which they're facing only Copper monsters, they can do really well in the early game. Getting up to 46 CT before letting you get a Silver monster upgrade, it sounds like that's exactly what your Heroes did. There's not much you can do once the Heroes realize that THEY control the pace of the game.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Any house rules for 1st time RtL players

bleached_lizard — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:37:15 +0000

by bleached_lizard

Zombiemold wrote:
I have a question for ya Chris, regarding the rule of scaled threat (BTW Loves the rules, really make a big impact and seem to add balance) I was wondering, how does the Ranged skill card "Cautious" work into your rule? Because 0 threat for the first dungeon seems, a little harsh :P

Cautious

The overlord recieves 1 fewer threat token each turn. In addition trap cards always deal 1 less wound to you (Minimum 0)

Hi Tyson - glad you like the rules!

There's no change to Cautious using the scaled threat rules. Remember the OL isn't receiving 0 Threat per turn - he's receiving 0 Threat PLUS that from any useless cards in his hand (of which there are many, especially the power cards). Additonally, there is the always-present argument that, if a hero purchased/selected Cautious as their skill choice, then that is one other skill the hero party is doing without.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Any house rules for 1st time RtL players

Zombiemold — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:01:42 +0000

by Zombiemold

I have a question for ya Chris, regarding the rule of scaled threat (BTW Loves the rules, really make a big impact and seem to add balance) I was wondering, how does the Ranged skill card "Cautious" work into your rule? Because 0 threat for the first dungeon seems, a little harsh :P

Cautious

The overlord recieves 1 fewer threat token each turn. In addition trap cards always deal 1 less wound to you (Minimum 0)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Rough idea for a new endgame.

MordredofFairy — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:59:44 +0000

by MordredofFairy

MrSkeletor wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, I'll give you some of the thought processes behind what I was trying to do with some things:

Ah well, i'll reply and try to help constructively building up on this idea ;)

MrSkeletor wrote:

This is true - but it's offset by the fact that the heroes may die BEFORE they even get to the avatar. Heck, if they play badly and the OL starts with > 350 CP they will probably get wiped out in the first dungeon level.
The way I have thought about it is that if both sides are dead equal, they will enter the final dungeon with 300 CP a piece. This means that the heroes cannot lose more than 50 CP in the final dungeon. Based on the formula, they can afford around 3-4 deaths each. That seems about fair for a 5 level dungeon which is what the final dungeon is. Of course the next step would be gathering data on average number of hero deaths in the final dungeon - my estimate may be too high or too low.

The other thing to remember is that if the heroes do make it to the Avatar, while the Avatar will have less HP under these rules he has the benefits of:
- monsters being around to act as meat shields.
- OL cards. If you haven't saved up a hand of dodge cards you deserve to have him get one-shoted.
That's why I didn't feel the additional HP were necessary - I don't want to make the final dungeon impossible. In fact my fear was the OL hoarding spawn cards for the final level then just spamming it, which is why I put in the '2 CP to flip the reinforcement counter' rule in.

Oh well, i have to admit that i seriously misread one aspect here: I thought the no-more-respawn after 350 applied only when the avatar appeared, not for the whole final dungeon.
I see things as ONE serious problem here: If they are not about equal, the game may feel seriously anticlimactic. That is, if i am slightly ahead, say, 320/280, it may already be very difficult for them to get through to the avatar. If its 340/260, then basically they needn't even try. On the other hand, if the OL is behind, in the same way, it's highly unlikely he will be able to stop them(also because he had less Conquest to spend on upgrades). While that may be a basic idea, it feels too much like: if the heroes have anywhere between 290-310 XP, proceed to the final battle. If they have more, they win, less, they lose.

Maybe make that a fixed 50 Conquest pool for resurrection in the final Keep, with the added twist that UNSPENT hero conquest(paid by all) can be used to increase this pool and UNSPENT overlord conquest can be used to decrease it, each at a rate of 2:1(pay two, change it by one). That way, whoever is ahead, can use his "XP overhead" to influence balance during the final dungeon, while the heroes always HAVE a theoretical chance to win. It also remedies the "1 upgrade a week"-problem of the OL. If the heroes time it so the OL has 80 unspent XP before the keep, then they're in for a rough ride.(also the reason i don't want a 1:1 ratio, otherwise there will be too much buildup on both sides...maybe 3:1 feels a bit weak, but i'm not sure what exactly would be balanced).

MrSkeletor wrote:
I haven't look at the final dungeons for all of the avatars to see how they would work.
Do they need extra monsters? Would playing the power cards that let you add monsters with each new area be enough?

Well, the problem is that some dungeons include the area the OL spawns in, and everything else you had stays alive, while others change to a new area or rebuild it, where you'd have to "spawn anew". The problem is that they could just speedrun throught he level, bypassing many elite-high-level-monsters, in order to face 2-4 skeletons or beastman.
So maybe they way to handle it would be that all monsters on the board when the avatar appears are placed at the avatars area as if a new area was opened(containing all the monsters as minions that were left alive), and instead of the avatar having the first turn, the heroes get the first turn? you think that could work?

3.: overlord cards: dance of the monkey god kind of feels compulsory here, i'd say.

MrSkeletor wrote:

Yep. Enough to ban it from the final dungeon though?

if you play with the 50 conquest limit for the whole dungeon, then i'd seriously consider that. With one deck cycle, playing this twice, in the best possible situation, or saved up threat and a spawn, should more less ensure a total party kill, twice.(even those people who roll a blank should fall before the onslaught....)...but having animate weapons instead with 2 dark charms(one treachery, one normal) may also not be much better. the better the gold weapons, the more ouch... i think it really needs to be tested. thats the main problem i believe, several things would need to get balanced, so that would require test runs...i wouldn't do this to my current game group, possibly making the final dungeon unwinnable for them...

that overlord would throw aimed rage attacks like no tomorrow

MrSkeletor wrote:

Yep, don't see a problem with that.

well, perfect then. i was just considering that some things could basically increase his damage output extremely...putting a player out before they even get a turn, but well, evil brakes for no one-

MrSkeletor wrote:

I thought of this, which is why I did the 2CP to flip reinforcement thing - it can cause the OL to burn up a lot of threat if you still have the CPs left at the end.

Yep, perfectly fine, in theory. still, some spawns would need to be taken care of. Diamond Beastman war party, with a surviving master beastman and the beastman lord, equals +12 range/+12 damage...with legions of the dead, thats more less an instant kill. As in: prevent the last character from entering the portal to the final chamber, spawn one party on other end of dungeon. The character enters the chamber, and it's the overlords turn. Spawn the second party and completely decimate the heroes.(even with just the party and the skeletons, and the shadow beastman, thats about 10-12 attacks with +9 damage each...painful, to say the least...but then, that can always happen, not just during the final battle-

MrSkeletor wrote:

I'd have to investigate the final levels for each avatar.
Don't forget though with these rules the OL can win the game at any time in the final dungeon, if his avatar level is weak try and win before they get to level 5. It might be disappointing that the avatar doesn't make an appearance but at least it would make the final dungeon thrilling as opposed to just a time waste until the final level.

as said, i misread your suggestion and thought the no-respawn only triggered later. in light of new understanding, the idea is basically very interesting, if we manage to make it balanced(as in, not prerequisite the heroes are within 10-20 XP from the overlord one way or the other.

MrSkeletor wrote:

You are probably right. Could be remedied by just giving some avatars a fixed HP boost.

sure thing. heck, for some avatars, i'd prefer alric instead, having him fight as my champion :P without the conquest upgrade for HP, i'd bet he could take the Titan :P
Either way: making thoughened 25 HP for 5 XP, and buyable 4 times, could help? for 20 XP, you could get 100 extra HP for your avatar.(thats a lot better ratio than 2:1, but a.: you need to spend the conquest on this rather than something else, while you'd get the other upgrade "for free", and you need to spend a week of upgrading on it, rather than purchase something with more "omph").

MrSkeletor wrote:

What an awesome idea! My only fear is we may be making the final dungeon TOO hard though! Still, I really like it. Maybe you have to pay threat (15?) to do the substitution?

Yep, perfectly fine with me! Pay threat for the substitution and naturally, they are always worth the 4 conquest they'd be regularily worth.
I actually even considered allowing the Overlord to "buy" their dungeon levels, either through a upgrade-per-level(as avatar upgrade) or with Conquest during the final level...that is, pay that and that much, and you get to choose the next level of the keep. Always bothered me a bit when 3 out of 5 levels in my keep featured mainly my weakest guys...didn't really seem like what my keep SHOULD be like...don't get me wrong, i don't want to make things too hard on the heroes, but going up against silver enemies in the final keep just seems a bit...er..."where's all those diamond guys go? - dunno, keep hacking and slashing, only one more level to go!"

MrSkeletor wrote:

I'd probably ditch the reinforcement card because it causes too many problems - it would already be in the OLs deck unless you made it for the entire dungeon, which is a bit much especially if the OL has many lieutenants. Obviosly the 'hand of cards' is gone since its a dungeon and not an encounter. And of course the lieutenant cannot flee this time.

Oh, not at all, reinforcement cards are inmediately placed in play and don't count against the limit of might-cards. Thats the usual "reinforce a dungeon" as well as LT-encounter-routine...(like alrics "doom" or elizas "brilliant commander"). If they reinforce your dungeon, then later die from being substituted for a level leader, naturally their reinforcement card should also be gone(to the discard pile)...thats what i meant. If eliza dies on level 3, the naga in level 4 will not be upgraded to elite, unless i played a brilliant commander on my own, too(if there even ARE 2 of this in the deck, now that i think of it).

MrSkeletor wrote:

This isn't a bad idea either. But again im scared of making the final dungeon TOO hard. I'd rather it be slightly in the Heroes favor than in the OLs. Again I need to read each avatar and inspect their level but its certainly worth thinking about.

Another idea I had was that a successful Talimar siege does not end the game. Rather if Talimar is destroyed then the Heroes may NOT restock when going through the overlords keep, making the final dungeon MUCH harder.

Once again thanks for the feedback!

Well, as said, i don't want it too hard on the heroes, but it should FEEL like the final dungeon. it should FEEL climactic...thats why i mentioned above that balancing will be incredibly important here. They should know that messing around here will cost them dearly. That it's hard because it's the last stand. That it won't be easy. And that they're the last hope of mankind...

As for tamalir, yep, i never played with tamalir raze ending the game, the one time i DID raze tamalir, i just explained to my group they would need to choose a new capital city and tamalir is worth double conquest per week, + a free plot card played inmediately. (Sue me, it's my game, it was a close play, and i didn't want it to end like this, especially since i had incredible luck with encounter area draws during the siege)

you are welcome, i like your idea, and if a playable version comes out from this, i'd very much appreciate it. even this theoretic thing we are discussing here already feels better than RAW :) maybe even more balanced ;)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: first campaign which plot OL?

DavidT — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:42:10 +0000

by DavidT

MordredofFairy wrote:
Sorcerer King has, uniquely, the ability to cancel all surges rolled against him...

Even better, the official clarification was that he has the ability to cancel all surges--not only those that are 'rolled.' So, abilities and weapons that grant free surges are also cancelled.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: first campaign which plot OL?

MrSkeletor — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:17:20 +0000

by MrSkeletor

Thanks heaps for your post Ger, it was very informative!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Spiritwalker range in RtL

cknorr — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:09:48 +0000

by cknorr

Thanks, I was looking at last year's faq. I really appreciate your help!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

Putenbrust — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:02:39 +0000

by Putenbrust

Thank you very much, everone, for the clarifications (especially corbon, who wrapped it up very clearly).

I don't know where I had gotten the assumption Lts start without any minions.. I'm lucky we didn't have any confrontations with them yet :-).

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: RtL Campaing Sheet for Excel

Ladoik — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:58:48 +0000

by Ladoik

For thos of you that are useing my Excel Sheet for RtL.
I've updated the Sheet to include all ToI stuff.

If i don't miss anything you should be able to note all infos of your RtL session you need, including all expansions.

Link:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/31362

File: Descent: The Road to Legend:: 20 new dungeons, Version 1.0

fireschupps — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:51:14 +0000

by fireschupps

20 new dungeons, Version 1.0 for Board Game: Descent: The Road to Legend ]]>

File: Descent: The Road to Legend:: RtL Campaing Sheet for Excel

Ladoik — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:07:07 +0000

by Ladoik

RtL Campaing Sheet for Excel for Board Game: Descent: The Road to Legend ]]>

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: first campaign which plot OL?

MordredofFairy — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:55:52 +0000

by MordredofFairy

Titan, Dragon, and Demon are all powerful units per definition, BUT: they are all alone, directly open for attack, and the damage output of the heroes is more often than not high enough to kill them very quickly.
Also, they start in places where they can't REACH the heroes properly on their first turn, basically giving initiative to the heroes again.

Sorcerer King has, uniquely, the ability to cancel all surges rolled against him, potentially the most HP, AND the mirrors...while they can be shattered without too many problem, they buy him at least 2 rounds extra.

The beastman lord, with shadow clones, gets basically TRIPLE the extra HP from conquest gained during the overlords keep. So if you gained 40 XP, thats not 80 HP, but 240 HP for him. Also, since all three figures may act, thats a lot of attacks coming from him early on, possibly putting one of the hero's down fast to even things out...

As for the Spider Queen, in her final overlord level the heroes are split, each has to fight for himself reaching a certain place, only when all 4 are there will the path to the spider queen open. While the hero's are usually very strong at this point, focusing solely on the weakest of them, with potentially many power cards(reinforcement + played) and several cards and threat saved up for that very moment can delay this weakest player almost indefinitely...not fun, but efficient.

i run some test battles against a moderately well-equipped gold-hero-party with 2 secret trainings, because i wanted to get a feel as to which avatars are more suited for a final battle(which i wanted in my first campaign...talamir raze feels anti-climactic, and plot win is basically out if i don't go darkness).
from those test, while individually stronger units, even with their personal upgrades, the first 3 guys went down rather fast, due to the incredibly high damage output of the heroes. battle-actions and fatigue-upgrades with saved stamina potions really made short work of them.(yep, you got fear, thats those 2 dice, oh, and ironskin with x armor...then...i do only 15 damage! and 13....so, 28 total this round, times 4 players -_-)

so in my eyes, the most climactic fights can be had with sorcerer king because his upgrades and mirrors are really the most efficient for survivability, which the avatar needs...and the beastman lord, IF you believe you can do sufficient damage in the final dungeon to pump up your conquest total to make things matter-...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

the1sean — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:11:43 +0000

by the1sean

great post!

I just started my own RtL campaign and my buddies are doing very similar things, lol. Keep up the reports, I want to hear how it goes!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Spiritwalker range in RtL

cuzzle — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 03:15:52 +0000

by cuzzle

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent/faq/de...

Official FAQ page 9.

Changes to Cards
After careful consideration, we feel that the following cards should be removed from the advanced campaign.Skills - Telekinesis, Bear Tattoo
Overlord - Poltergeist, Rolling Stone
Crushing Blow is now restricted to only one copy in the Overlord's deck. Yes this may go in the Lt.s hand during a Lt. encounter.
Spiritwalker is reduced to 5 spaces, not the 10 that is printed on the card.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Spiritwalker range in RtL

eselred — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 03:15:23 +0000

by eselred

From the official FAQ...

Spiritwalker is reduced to 5 spaces, not the 10 that is
printed on the card.

You can find the FAQ here...

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent/faq/de...

The quoted section is on page 9.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Spiritwalker range in RtL

cknorr — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 03:03:22 +0000

by cknorr

Is the range of spiritwalker reduced to 5 spaces instead of 10 in RtL? I've seen mentions of it on the forums but nowhere official.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

kingbobb — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:43:33 +0000

by kingbobb

IKerensky wrote:
Ok, sorry to burst your bubble but :

DESCENT IS NOT A RPG, and even the advanced campaign doesnt make it a RPG.

It's a game. It is what you make of it.

With that in mind, it's intended to be an advanced version of Descent. While I know this group did have some JitD quests behind them, their actions in the first dungeon suggest they haven't yet understood that in order for the heroes to win the game, they need to be mindful of how they can lose the game. RPG players, where even if you lose you can just roll up a new character and rejoin the party, do seem to lose sight of the fact that the OL is often trying to kill the party.

The hero players should know that they've got a steep road ahead of them. In our efforts to play RtL, we restarted a couple campaigns....one because I'd inadvertently cheated as OL, and a second because the heroes fell so far behind that the hero player (my wife) didn't think she'd enjoy finishing out the campaign. Winning and losing are one thing, but it's a game, and win or lose, you should at least be having fun.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

Cleitus the Black — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:28:43 +0000

by Cleitus the Black

Great session report, keep them coming.

This is the kind of information that should really hold folks decide if they want to try a campaign.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

corbon — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:10:35 +0000

by corbon

edroz wrote:
Putenbrust wrote:
2. When a Lt. reinforcement sheet states "2 Beastmen" for example, does that mean that I can either

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of a Beastman Reinforcement in the Rulebook or

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of 2x the Beastman Reinforcement or

- spawn UP TO two beastmen for the Beastman reinforcement cost EACH.

This doesn't quite makes sense. Which lt. are you talking about? I checked the lt. cards and I did not see a special reinforcement ability on any of them.

In general, a lt. can reinforce as many minions as he can afford. However, he can only reinforce with the same type of minions that he starts with. So if the starting minions include 2 beastmen, the lt. can reinforce with as many beastmen he can afford (and are included in the game). The cost of each reinforcement is listed in the rulebook. The cost listed is for one figure of that type.

Ok, I don't think anyone has yet been clear and explicit in answering this.
Edit: Sorry, Tim did already.

The minions listed on the Lt card are minions that the Lt starts with (ie deploys initially on map, but not in the large starting tile). In addition, the Lt may Reinforce any number of minions of any type that he starts with, paying for each individual reinforcement according to the cost in the reinforcements table.
So the 'number' listed in the minions (in your example, 2 beastmen) has nothing to do with reinforcing at all.
None of your options above are correct. That Lt can reinforce as many beastmen as he can afford to pay for each turn, each one costing 4 threat as per the reinforcement table.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

spelledaren — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:41:22 +0000

by spelledaren

Excellent excellent report. Have a few cents.

I think your heroes are goners after that dungeon :P

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

bleached_lizard — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:11:18 +0000

by bleached_lizard

Ah yes, sorry - I was reading option 2 as being "two and only two (not more, not less)" which is why I went with option 3 as being the correct one.

You can reinforce with any of the minions listed on the LT card. The cost for ONE minion is what is listed on the reinforcement table. You can buy as many as you can afford.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

edroz — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:38:00 +0000

by edroz

Putenbrust wrote:
2. When a Lt. reinforcement sheet states "2 Beastmen" for example, does that mean that I can either

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of a Beastman Reinforcement in the Rulebook or

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of 2x the Beastman Reinforcement or

- spawn UP TO two beastmen for the Beastman reinforcement cost EACH.

This doesn't quite makes sense. Which lt. are you talking about? I checked the lt. cards and I did not see a special reinforcement ability on any of them.

In general, a lt. can reinforce as many minions as he can afford. However, he can only reinforce with the same type of minions that he starts with. So if the starting minions include 2 beastmen, the lt. can reinforce with as many beastmen he can afford (and are included in the game). The cost of each reinforcement is listed in the rulebook. The cost listed is for one figure of that type.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

shnar — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:38:00 +0000

by shnar

Effects are always applied to a base attack: Melee, Ranged, Magic. *All* attacks fall into one of those three categories. If the attack has the Breath affect, you may use the Breath template and it becomes an AOE attack. In theory, you could have a Melee attack that has the Breath affect. The attacker then has the option before rolling if they want to use the Breath affect or just do a base attack. But because they use the Breath affect does not change what the base attack is in any way.

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

Khandyman — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:34:01 +0000

by Khandyman

Putenbrust wrote:

2. When a Lt. reinforcement sheet states "2 Beastmen" for example, does that mean that I can either

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of a Beastman Reinforcement in the Rulebook or

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of 2x the Beastman Reinforcement or

- spawn UP TO two beastmen for the Beastman reinforcement cost EACH.
Michael

The way I read the rulebook, I believe your option 2 is the closest to being correct. However, it may need a bit of clarification.

The listed minions on a Lt. card indicate the minions he/she starts
the encounter with. That doesn't relate to how many can be reinforced during the encounter, nor to the cost per reinforcement.

To clarify, a Lt. may reinforce any of the minion types on his/her card, with each one costing the amount of threat listed in the rulebook. The Lt. may reinforce as many minions each turn as the OL has threat to do so with, following the normal rules for the reinforce ability.

The relevant sections of the english rulebook are as follows:

The Reinforce Ability in Encounters
The Reinforce ability (a common ability on many Incident
cards) allows the overlord to place a new monster (or monsters)
of the listed type off the board, but next to one of the exit
spaces of the map (see “Exit Pieces” on page 32).
Reinforcements are not considered to have been spawned, so
hero lines of sight, and abilities that prevent or interfere with
spawning, do not affect them.
Reinforcements are purchased and placed at the end of the
overlord’s turn, and may not be activated that turn. However,
since they aren’t on the map yet, heroes can’t attack them, either. On the overlord’s next turn, he may move the
reinforcements onto the map as though they were one space
away from the exit spaces they were placed next to. Large
monsters may not move onto the board unless they can move
fully onto the board, and monsters may not end their movement
on top of other figures when moving onto the board.
If the leader in an encounter has been killed, the Reinforce
abilities of that encounter cannot be used any longer.

Fourth, a lieutenant can Reinforce any kind of normal monster
listed as one of its legal minions on its lieutenant card. For
example, Sir Alric Farrow can Reinforce Beastmen,
Razorwings, Hell Hounds, and Sorcerers. The threat cost to
Reinforce one monster of a given type is listed below.

I scanned through the updated FAQ and didn't see any rulings to the contrary on this issue. However, it is entirely possible there is a FFG ruling stashed away somewhere on their forums. If anyone knows differently please speak up. :)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

LoneCleric — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:15:37 +0000

by LoneCleric

bleached_lizard wrote:
1) Hellhound breath attacks are still ranged attacks. This is denoted by the ranged symbol next to the hellhound's attack dice on the monster stat card.

2) Option 3 is correct.

Hrm, wait, I do not recall any restriction on the maximum # of monsters one can reinforce? Did I miss that?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

Putenbrust — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:00:40 +0000

by Putenbrust

Cool! Thank you for the clarifications.

What really tipped me into my false thoughts regarding breath was the FAQ statement, that instead of a breath attack, a normal ranged attack could be made. This sounded to me kind of exclusive a'la "make a ranged OR a breath attack". But your arguments are logical.

About the reinforcements: Thanks as well, makes sense now. Was kinda confusing I think, but that might have something to do with the wording in the german rulebook.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

bleached_lizard — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:29:01 +0000

by bleached_lizard

1) Hellhound breath attacks are still ranged attacks. This is denoted by the ranged symbol next to the hellhound's attack dice on the monster stat card.

2) Option 3 is correct.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

timstellmach — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:24:39 +0000

by timstellmach

The breath ability provides exceptions to some of the normal requirements for making an attack. I don't see how that changes what type of attack it is. If it did, surely it would say so.

There are three types of attacks in the game. Are you proposing that the Hell Hound's breath is none of them?

Or to put it another way, "ranged" is a defined term in Descent, which refers to a category of attack, not a set of mechanics (which ranged attacks share with magic attacks anyway).

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Breath Attack Type & reinforcements (of Lts)

Putenbrust — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:11:29 +0000

by Putenbrust

I'm sorry I'm mixing up a RtL-specifi-question with a general one, but two things have been nagging my mind ever since our first RtL session:

1. Are breath attacks (by Hell Hounds for example) by all means RANGED attacks? I was asking because one of my characters wears the armor that protects from ranged attacks. In my opinion, a breath attack is not a ranged attack, since neither range nor LoS play a role in it.

2. When a Lt. reinforcement sheet states "2 Beastmen" for example, does that mean that I can either

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of a Beastman Reinforcement in the Rulebook or

- spawn two beastmen for the cost of 2x the Beastman Reinforcement or

- spawn UP TO two beastmen for the Beastman reinforcement cost EACH.

I've been skipping through this forum but haven't found a definitie answer yet. Thanks in advance,
Michael

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

IKerensky — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:58:28 +0000

by IKerensky

I had to confess I read your report a bit too hastily before posting my reply, wich mean it wasn't entirely aimed ( or even at all aimed ) at what you actually posted but at the topic of mixing Descent and RPG in the same sentence :p

Sorry to hve been a bit too much vocal ;)

Good report by the way. I dont think the Heroes player will make it with such a large lead for you....

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

Putenbrust — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:08:56 +0000

by Putenbrust

IKerenski wrote:

Ok, sorry to burst your bubble but :

DESCENT IS NOT A RPG, and even the advanced campaign doesnt make it a RPG.

No need to break bubbles. I fear you got mislead by the thread title a little bit, since my intent is not showing RtL as an RPG but showing how RtL is experienced when played by people who are into RPGs. There is a huge difference between that!

But actually, everything you said is what I tried to make clear when I said:

Putenbrust wrote:

Of course, this is no RPG (...) – it is a tactical board game, not an RPG.

I honestly don't see where you think I'm calling RtL an RPG there :p.

IKerenski wrote:

The Advanced Campaign game is somewhat different but not by far, it suffer from sever imbalance,

And this is the point, why I bothered writing the report: When playing RtL with role playing game veterans, the imbalance you mention (that is certainly existent!) can be migitated. As you see, the first dungeon my party entered was a catastrophe, but I tried to not stretch it to the point where keeping up playing is no use for the heroes. That's what might separate the RPG gamer experience of RtL.

I appreciate your criticism, IKerensk - although I am somewhat taking it apart by qoute/answer. But I agree with you that RtL is still a boardgame that might have some trouble balancing out power levels. The question is how to solve these problems. Houserules are certainly possible, I try to show another way right here.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

IKerensky — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:08:26 +0000

by IKerensky

Ok, sorry to burst your bubble but :

DESCENT IS NOT A RPG, and even the advanced campaign doesnt make it a RPG.

Descent is a fantasy setting tactical combat game opposing an Overlord player and 2-4 Heroes players. Regardless of its assymetrical setting and look alike it is not to be mistaken with a a dungeon crawl nor a true RPG.

The fact the OL is taking an active part in defeating the heroes and not just providing an interesting opposition make this game so special. If the Heroes Players take it as they took a RPG they will lose. The game is balanced so they have the power but the clock is ticking, and the more powerfull they become the lest time they got before losing.

The Advanced Campaign game is somewhat different but not by far, it suffer from sever imbalance, several OL avatar being far more powerfull than other and some monster category are over the top. Playing against the High Sorcerer with Silver Eldritch at copper level is an exercise of frustration...

The OL best chance to win is before silver level, past that it will be a long, very long journey until a more than probably anti-climatic final fight.

Descent is a RACE, not an exploration game. It need to played as such or it only feel as a dull and shallow rpg-lite.

I think that every people that make comparation between D&D and Descent have been mislead in their buying and will experiment disappointment. The only thing Descent have in common with a D&D 4th edition game is the squared dungeon room...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

corbon — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:56:54 +0000

by corbon

I liked the report, but I too would be afraid of the future. Things get very much harder (now you have a monster upgrade) before they get better, and if you get too far behind then it is possible it never will get better. That can be crushingly hard to take for players - hours and hours of getting smashed in dungeons and coming up against monsters that you just can't take.

What Roleplayers (with their instinctive clear the dungeon at all costs attitude) forget, is that they don't start with 'heroes'. They start with underskilled, under-equipped, gumbies who need to grow and learn before they can be the 'heroes' that take on the Overlord and save the world.

Leave 'dungeon clearing' to those whose job it is (proper heroes, not gumbies, or larger parties) and get on with the learning/looting/treasurehunting/training and building up of the necessary attributes to be 'hero' enough to save the world!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

Putenbrust — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:29:56 +0000

by Putenbrust

timstellmach wrote:

However, D&D can't do it as well as Descent can with zero prep time between sessions. I have a D&D campaign that I currently have on hiatus in favor of Descent, and this is one of the major reasons. I appreciate each game for what it does best.

I agree with you 100% here, since we also are having a D&D hiatus filled with Descent (we were playing the fabolous Freeport Trilogy... damn, I like Green Ronin for that).
Being on the brink of studying and having lots to do, I appreciate Descent's out-of-the-box-character very much.

On the other hand, a quick dungeoncrawl? What about Goodman Games DCC series? As far as I heard they are pretty straightforward. What I wouldn't want to miss in Dungeon Crawls is all that "creative stuff" that RPGs do, like improvised weapons or "I jump on the chandelier and shoot my bolts from there." I think that is why we don't enjoy vanilla descent so muh anymore. Some RPG gamers (like us) are spoilt I suppose.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

Putenbrust — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:22:21 +0000

by Putenbrust

Thanks for the tip and your quick answers! So the journey of the brave adventurers shalt be continued! Next session will probably this weekend, I will keep you informed.
By the way, I'm open to suggestions. If there is someone interested in more hard facts (CT for every dungeon level, all items found/purchased, you name it), I could focus on that a bit, although my main goal right now is to give a vague hint about how this game feels to RPG attached board gamers.

Thank you very much for the support again, it definetely tipped me in favour of keeping up with this journal. See you next weekend!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

timstellmach — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:19:44 +0000

by timstellmach

Putenbrust wrote:
Being used to playing RPGs, we are not utterly satisfied with running through neverending dungeons with the same monsters again and again. Sorry guys, but D&D does that all better PLUS your character can have complex emotional or social conflicts the moment you leave the dungeon.

However, D&D can't do it as well as Descent can with zero prep time between sessions. I have a D&D campaign that I currently have on hiatus in favor of Descent, and this is one of the major reasons. I appreciate each game for what it does best.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

Tyrfing — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:59:26 +0000

by Tyrfing

Hey, very nice session report. I'm curious how my own experience with this game will be. I would really like to read your continued session report again, so please feel encouraged to write again! :)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

misfits859 — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:55:52 +0000

by misfits859

Nice write-up Michael. I feel ya!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: first campaign which plot OL?

MrSkeletor — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:48:20 +0000

by MrSkeletor

MordredofFairy wrote:

if you want to go all the way with your campaign(that is, final battle) i'd also suggest sorcerer king, or beastman lord...those two have the most serious chances at giving a somewhat close final battle.
Theoretically, spider queen could also do that, by being overly cheap against the weakest char in the final dungeon level...but that wouldn't feel right-

What makes you say that they are the most powerful?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

edroz — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:11:09 +0000

by edroz

Nice write up. Keep them coming.

It's just amazing how many first time RtL heroes have the "must complete the first dungeon at all costs" mentality. They need to learn the dungeon blitz strategy. It will be interesting to see if they can come back since they gave you enough conquest to upgrade you monsters right away.

Session: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: "The Descent RPG: A 345 page hardcover" or how an RPG gamer experiences RtL

Putenbrust — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:48:58 +0000

by Putenbrust

Chapter I: What is Role-Playing?

Hello everyone,
I have been a passionate yet passive member of this community for about a year now, but today I feel obliged to post my first message on BGG. Why? Frankly, because the German Version of “Road To Legend” has been published and we had our first session.

For whom is this session report?
For everyone who bothers reading! Ha, that was a cheap one. Seriously, as the title suggests, I wanted to try to capture the atmosphere of Road to Legend for everyone who is/was not only a board- but also an RPG gamer. Many reviews state that Road to Legend is NOT an RPG substitute, and I partly agree. But still, it seems to hit a nerve in us that satisfies the urge to role play. But see for yourself, and make your own mind up.

Note: I will be deploying italic texts inbetween the session report that kind of wrap up what I want to say. Who doesn’t have the time to fully read this thread might want to skip to the italics in order to get my point in all this.

First of all, let’s have a look in the past. There were 5 young adults sitting around a big table. It’s barely holding all the plastic pieces, the cardstock and the cards that pave its entire surface. The faces of 4 of the gamers turn long when their plastic heroes open the next door. “So many monsters with the Undying Ability again? Aww, damn, we’ve already been playing for hours.”, moans one of them.

Being used to playing RPGs, we are not utterly satisfied with running through neverending dungeons with the same monsters again and again. Sorry guys, but D&D does that all better PLUS your character can have complex emotional or social conflicts the moment you leave the dungeon. In my opinion, this phenomenon is the main reason why I know some RPGlers who dislike Descent.

The last sessions of Descent JitD haven’t been so satisfying. As the quests grew larger and larger, boredom took over. After Quest 5 we all agreed it made no sense to us anymore. (Quest 5 ended with me instant-killing the fierce dragon that we all should doth fear so much. Biggest letdown #2 for RPGlers).

Then, the tide turned. I bought RtL, and one week later explained its rules to my gaming group. We all settled for a date, and there we go.

Chapter II: Creating your Character

We used the standard 3-shuffle draft for player characters, and, being a lousy decision-maker, I as the overlord got assigned a 2-shuffle draft. With my favourite, the Spider Queen, among the two, my choice was easy. The heroes had it a bit harder, though. Although everyone was hoping to get one of the new heroes (which we hadn’t tested before), they didn’t have one in their pools and tanks were scarce.

We use Road to Legend together with the “Altar of Despair”-Expansion. Just for your information. Although many features of that expansion are not in the campaign (prolonged actions, invulnerability potions..), I think AoD is the better expansion to get just for the mere mass of additional monsters you have available (compared to three lousy monsters in WoD), as seeing only the same monsters again and again is, as I have stated before, one of the most feared mood-killers for RPG gamers.

They settled for:

Mordrok the Mighty, whose fatigue-restoring ability would soon drive me nuts,
(Ability: Knight)
Lyssa the Fragile, who was picked for reasons unknown to my simple mind. Her power dice and special ability just don’t strike me as too useful…
(Ability: Shadow Soul)
Astarra, the teenage rune-bi.. erm.. witch whose special ability, although nerfed in RtL, has already proven to be useful
(Ability: Vampiric Blood) and of course
Jaes the Jack-of-all-Spells. I call him like this, because his special ability is kind of bad paraphrased. I already mailed Fantay Flight games to make it a bit clearer. The old one

“Jaes can wear heavy armor and still wear runes”

isn’t as catchy as my take, I think. It goes like:

“Yes, you CAN eat the cake and have it!”

Let’s see if there will be replacement character cards for him in the next expansion.
I chose “In my parlour” as my starting upgrade by the way, and, man, it was soo on..

Chapter III: Dungeons & Dragons

The troop started with a dungeon right away. Nope, no encounter, get straight to fighting. While Sir Alric Farrow moved closer to Frostgate, the heroes went south and had bad luck with their first dungeon level: “Dragon’s Lair” was getting them on the wrong foot. Although they managed to kill the monsters without casualties an exploding chest and falling rocks took out Jaes and Lyssa. This is the first point where I was so gentle to remind the heroes of why FOR ALL THINGS PURE AND SACRED a hero with three hitpoints would want to open a chest when there’s still a trap card in my parlour. Mark my words, of course it will happen again…

The fun parts of Road to Legend all shone right at the first dungeon level. What, monsters that don’t drop after one hit? New. Chests that didn’t turn a hard fight into a cakewalk in a second? Absolutely new. A thrilling tension, almost RPGesque along the lines of “oh my god, should we really charge the dragon? He seems kinda strong..” .. Please marry me, RtL. I know we haven’t known each other for so long, but it just feels so right with you.

Level two didn’t get any better for the brave adventurers; not only did the two chests of level 1 not contain ANY copper treasure (they merely exploded or started biting and tearing and running away; in both cases only leaving behind gold and potions.. bad luck), meaning they were ill-equipped. Level two also sucked.
Literally.
The level was called “Sucking darkness” (I’m sorry for being too lazy to look up the English rulebook for correct translation) and that level’s boss was anything but fun. I managed to get the heroes stunned with my razorwings and they consequently didn’t get forward too fast, as the level would keep sucking them back to the pits.. where Mordrok the heavy armoured tank (Ring of Protection + chainmail.. ouch) lost a nice bunch of his hitpoints (I managed to have rocks fall at him and make him in turn fall into the pits). When the crazy mage of this dungeon started throwing the heroes into the pits like rabbits out of hats (oh my god I am so sorry for this very misleading allegory), things went wild.

I ran out of poison markers.
The elite dark elf smashed Mordroks weapon AND armor.
The mage level boss was revived two times.
The heroes died again and again, but they refused to let go of the dungeon. Mordrog, weaponless, armorless, and with 12 poison markers, kept returning after LONG temple visits.

RPG gamers, watch out with the “dungeon mentality”: It is hard to grasp for guys like us that not every dungeon is meant to be explored up to the last corner of the most meaningless resting room of the goblin patrols. Level 2 of the first dungeon was when things turned really ugly for the heroes, and I even told them that retreat might be the best choice now, but their eagerness and pride won over their rationales. If you introduce this game to RPGlers, you might want to make them sensible for this special case.

Oh, did I mention? Of course, Mordrok opened the rune door leading down when he was down to 4 hitpoints.. when he tried to open the door, he found a very small scribbling on it: “I prepared explosive runes this mor-“ Bang. You’re dead, Jimbo. What more can an OL do than to warn the heroes..

After a long fight that has taken its tolls, level three was everyones’ big hope. Yet, with threat markers beyond the borders of “it’s-worth-counting-them” (I think about 40) and two might cards (Trap master and Evil Genius), I already foresaw another massacre. And a massacre it would be. Dungeon level three was “Broken Pillars” and the ever-sniping skeleton hero of this level shot down Lyssa more than once. In fact, with the huge pile of threat, I shot out two beastmen troops in two rounds, adding up with their commando to +5 range, + 2 damage and pierce 2 for the level boss, whose ability allowed him to aim every round automatically. Well, let’s just have a moment of silence for all those who lost their lives more than twice on this level..

..

Ok, I feel better now. When I saw the heroes dying but still trying, my inner GM took control and I made a few.. let’s say sub-par decisions. So, my level-leader, who played some nice cats-and-mouse beforehands, got accidentally trapped in one very narrow corner by Mordrok the tank who tore his new old axe in the skeleton again and again. But the skeleton proved to be hard to kill, like the crazy mage who was slain a few meters closer to the surface. Even cornered, it managed a fantastically ridiculous long-distance kill on Lyssa, the poor soul that had already run to the farthest corner of the dungeon she could reach. (I would have liked to record this one. It went like “I use THIS adjacent square to target Lyssa, who will be 7 spaces away and can barely be seen with all the pillars almost blocking line of sight. Let’s see…. HOLY CRAP. I hit! With 6 damage…” Luckily for me, the players enjoyed this hilarious kill as much as me, meaning I wasn’t the only one who was laughing after that last humiliation of poor Lyssa who got literally shot in the head out of nowhere. The Gamers, anyone?).

I think RPG gamers might have one advantage over hardcore-competition-boardgamers: Albeit all love of winning the game, we know when it’s enough. Ever had a TPK happen in your role playing game? You don’t want to experience that again. That’s how I felt when wiping the heroes for Conquest tokens again and again. If I had just kept raping them (believe me, I would have had enough spawn cards to do so) it might have been that they turned sour like some people who now troll the forums stating the game was broken and no fun because they kept getting their jawbones broken in-game. If you have ever GMed, you might have a feeling for when the fun ends. That is a huge advantage, since I don’t want to have what even some reviewers have experienced: Animosity on the gaming table; hate instead of laughter or a bitter coldness after every kill *shudder*)

Chapter IV: Character Development

So, that’s how the story ends. The heroes made their way to the next city and started buying stuff while I prepared everything for a nice Frostgate-Raze and upgraded my Beasts to silver.
We called it a night and EVERYONE assured me that this was the most awesome Descent night we have ever had.

I must admit, I am a bit afraid of the future. The heroes have barely gotten any treasures (thanks to a certain dark elf and bad luck when rolling chests) and our CT count is 61/20 atm. My silver beasts might wipe them straight out of the next dungeon and I will probably raze Frostgate without many worries. I have hope, however, since BGG keeps telling me that it will shift in favour of the heros later, and that is what I told my gaming group.

To wrap it up, we all enjoyed ourselves. Of course, this is no RPG: A dwarf would never shout his warcry and charge the freaking dragon although he knows there is no chance of survival. This doesn’t happen in Descent. It still bogs down to “Hey, if I move my figure that one space farther, the OL can’t spawn here. Also, I will give you the guard, no wait, evasion order with my leadership ability” – it is a tactical board game, not an RPG. But I will be damned if it isn’t fun nevertheless. And I must admit, when I noticed with what devotion my players packed their items and skills into the “save tuckboxes”, stating that they already loved this completely new game, I saw it in their eyes. They are, as in RPGs, gathering again. They gather XP, equipment and whacky tales of how although webbed, the barbarian beheaded the dragon while being telekinesed around by the group’s mage. They are gathering, and soon they will start to hunt. The Spider Queen should be on guard.

Please, if you liked my report (or didn’t like it), leave a short comment. I will make continuing this thread dependant on if anyone’s interested, since I don’t want to waste precious internet data with my gibberings. If you have come as far as this, fellow geek, thank you very much for reading!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Besieging Towns

edroz — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:23:49 +0000

by edroz

cknorr wrote:
Another related question... If the party attacks two (or more) Lt's besieging a city, can they use the town's services between encounters in the same week?

No, they may not. The related questions in the FAQ:

Q: What happens when there are multiple lieutenants in the same space as the hero party? If the heroes (or the overlord) choose to attack, are both lieutenants present at the same encounter?
A: Each lieutenant is an entire encounter unto himself. If the heroes choose to attack a lieutenant when there are two or more lieutenants in the same space, they must choose one to encounter. The overlord may attack the hero party with one lieutenant at a time. Only if the heroes are still in the same location at the end of the encounter (if the heroes win or the lieutenant flees, or if the space in question is Tamalir) can the next lieutenant attack.

and

Q: If heroes are attacking a lieutenant in a town, can they "visit" the shops, etc. before encountering the lieutenant or only after battles have resolved?
A: Only after battles have ended.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Besieging Towns

cknorr — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:41:10 +0000

by cknorr

Another related question... If the party attacks two (or more) Lt's besieging a city, can they use the town's services between encounters in the same week?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dodge cards and Battle actions?

kingbobb — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:37:33 +0000

by kingbobb

Dodge can be useful, but only when it's going to save the Boss, or some other monster that's going to be of some great use the next turn. Like saving a Beastman that could kill a hero on the next OL turn, winning the game for the OL.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Reviews:: Re: RtL - A different beast

zero80 — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:34:26 +0000

by zero80

Excelent review. I love Descent

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dodge cards and Battle actions?

timstellmach — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:26:00 +0000

by timstellmach

Dodge isn't much shakes. But it could be worth it to give the hero another chance to roll an "X" on a boss.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dodge cards and Battle actions?

Andy_X — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:34:49 +0000

by Andy_X

Cool - thanks. That's how we were playing it, but just wanted to make sure. Not that I seem to get very much out of my Dodge-cards anyway - either the re-rolled dice are even worse (for the OL) than they were to begin with, or else the heroes find some other way of killing the monster I'm trying to save.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dodge cards and Battle actions?

quartersmostly — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:04:34 +0000

by quartersmostly

A dodge card is played after the hero rolls the dice and is only applied to that attack.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Dodge cards and Battle actions?

Andy_X — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:59:54 +0000

by Andy_X

What happens if the OL plays a Dodge-card when a monster comes under attack from a Battling hero? Does the Overlord get to force rerolls on both attacks, or just the first?

Also, you can play the Dodge AFTER the hero has rolled dice for the attack, yes?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: first campaign which plot OL?

MordredofFairy — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:31:59 +0000

by MordredofFairy

i CHOOSE sorcerer king and ascension for that first campaign ;)

As for advice: I'd say either choose someone based on what treachery and monster type you feel most comfortable with, or draw randomly.

As for the plot: i choose ascension because it's plot cards are basically free if you raze cities...and i knew the other plots would interfere with my buying plans(first game, i didn't want to neglect anything too seriously).

if you want to go all the way with your campaign(that is, final battle) i'd also suggest sorcerer king, or beastman lord...those two have the most serious chances at giving a somewhat close final battle.
Theoretically, spider queen could also do that, by being overly cheap against the weakest char in the final dungeon level...but that wouldn't feel right-

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Worst cases of bad luck in a game of RtL?

MordredofFairy — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:28:24 +0000

by MordredofFairy

most memorable fail, ever, in my first campaign.

The dungeon with the sarcophagi, 3 bosses(beastman, sorcerer, skeleton) with knockback, no minions.
I had just upgraded to silver eldritch and really hoped it would work out grand...2 players into sarcophagi, if possible repeat every turn(to keep them to 2 active players per round).

In total, the 3 of them got to attack 8 times, 7 times of which was misses by X. No dodge, nothing. Just X after X after X. The ONE hit was somewhere around #5 or #6, i don't exactly remember. Still, i felt like throwing stuff around at that moment - oh well, the next session started with the summoning, and THAT silver demon very much made up for the session-

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Rotating Overlords?

cknorr — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:30:50 +0000

by cknorr

In rtl there are two main parts of the gameplay, fighting in dungeons/encounters, and managing the broader strategies on the campaign board. It seems to me that it would be very easy to have players manage their own set characters for the campaign during those weeks of training and deciding which upgrades to buy, but swap positions for individual dungeons if they chose to. This would allow the OL to rotate while retaining the fun of developing your own individual character throughout the journey.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Rough idea for a new endgame.

MrSkeletor — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:01:06 +0000

by MrSkeletor

Thanks for the feedback, I'll give you some of the thought processes behind what I was trying to do with some things:

MordredofFairy wrote:

1.: most of the final battles are rather one-sided on the hero's side...with their high damage output, they often kill the avatar before he has a chance to deal sufficient damage.
Here: you soften the overlord by NOT giving him additional HP based on Conquest totals and STRENGHTEN the heroes by not making their deaths permanent(in other words, the big boss is a easier target while 1 or 2 deaths should not matter too much for the heroes...the opposite, they get a "free" fatigue-refill).
I believe that the group would just focus-fire on the big guy and be done with it.

This is true - but it's offset by the fact that the heroes may die BEFORE they even get to the avatar. Heck, if they play badly and the OL starts with > 350 CP they will probably get wiped out in the first dungeon level.
The way I have thought about it is that if both sides are dead equal, they will enter the final dungeon with 300 CP a piece. This means that the heroes cannot lose more than 50 CP in the final dungeon. Based on the formula, they can afford around 3-4 deaths each. That seems about fair for a 5 level dungeon which is what the final dungeon is. Of course the next step would be gathering data on average number of hero deaths in the final dungeon - my estimate may be too high or too low.

The other thing to remember is that if the heroes do make it to the Avatar, while the Avatar will have less HP under these rules he has the benefits of:
- monsters being around to act as meat shields.
- OL cards. If you haven't saved up a hand of dodge cards you deserve to have him get one-shoted.
That's why I didn't feel the additional HP were necessary - I don't want to make the final dungeon impossible. In fact my fear was the OL hoarding spawn cards for the final level then just spamming it, which is why I put in the '2 CP to flip the reinforcement counter' rule in.

2.: beastman has his own "final" area, and the one for dragon is "reshaped" before final battle...in those, it will not help much to "not remove monsters from the map"...

I haven't look at the final dungeons for all of the avatars to see how they would work.
Do they need extra monsters? Would playing the power cards that let you add monsters with each new area be enough?

3.: overlord cards: dance of the monkey god kind of feels compulsory here, i'd say.

Yep. Enough to ban it from the final dungeon though?

..either way, most overlords during the whole dungeon would save up the best cards to unload at the end, during the inevitable final battle.

I don't know if that's that good of an idea.
Seems you would really need to rack up the kills BEFORE the Avatar is reached - if they get to the final level and can still respawn a few times each the Avatar will be toast.

that overlord would throw aimed rage attacks like no tomorrow

Yep, don't see a problem with that.

while stuff spawns left and right.

I thought of this, which is why I did the 2CP to flip reinforcement thing - it can cause the OL to burn up a lot of threat if you still have the CPs left at the end.

don't get me wrong, THAT part would feel climactic, i am just not sure if that would work properly, and equally for all overlords(again, e.g. beastman has a small space making spawning hard, with his treachery...while spider queen "forces" them to move(lest they want a web token) allowing traps to be played.)...

I'd have to investigate the final levels for each avatar.
Don't forget though with these rules the OL can win the game at any time in the final dungeon, if his avatar level is weak try and win before they get to level 5. It might be disappointing that the avatar doesn't make an appearance but at least it would make the final dungeon thrilling as opposed to just a time waste until the final level.

really, i love the idea, but i see #1 as a big problem, with the overlord not getting extra HP for the conquest gained, some of them will die _FAST_ (a thoughened diamond bane spider with a little armor? don't make me laugh...not much harder(if at all) than a level boss)...that would need to be remedied in some way.

You are probably right. Could be remedied by just giving some avatars a fixed HP boost.

Also, if the deal is to get them above 350 conquest, i'd like to throw in one suggestion i was contemplating:
Allow level bosses in the overlords keep to be subsituted with LT's...if I'm the sorcerer king and have a gold alric farrow, why would i entrust the portal key to my private chambers to a copper beastman?...

What an awesome idea! My only fear is we may be making the final dungeon TOO hard though! Still, I really like it. Maybe you have to pay threat (15?) to do the substitution?

the idea would be that instead of the normal level boss, the overlord may place any LT reinforcing the keep as level boss instead...if he dies, the reinforcement card is lost, naturally. regardless, in some instances it may be worth it...

I'd probably ditch the reinforcement card because it causes too many problems - it would already be in the OLs deck unless you made it for the entire dungeon, which is a bit much especially if the OL has many lieutenants. Obviosly the 'hand of cards' is gone since its a dungeon and not an encounter. And of course the lieutenant cannot flee this time.

or allow ONE LT to be added as a "bodyguard" to the avatar battle, as long as the LT is alive, all damage done to the avatar instead is dealt to the LT, only after he died can the heroes attack the avatar directly.-

This isn't a bad idea either. But again im scared of making the final dungeon TOO hard. I'd rather it be slightly in the Heroes favor than in the OLs. Again I need to read each avatar and inspect their level but its certainly worth thinking about.

Another idea I had was that a successful Talimar siege does not end the game. Rather if Talimar is destroyed then the Heroes may NOT restock when going through the overlords keep, making the final dungeon MUCH harder.

Once again thanks for the feedback!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: first campaign which plot OL?

DavidT — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:36:43 +0000

by DavidT

We were in a similar situation and opted to have the OL random draw for Avatar and Plot. Ended up being Sorcerer King and Ascension, and I'm pretty happy with it. So, my vote is for random draw. :)

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: first campaign which plot OL?

Splurk — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:43:58 +0000

by Splurk

Ill be OL for our first campaign next week, and not sure which OL and plot i want to take. We are all new to the game, will only have played one vanilla game to learn the rules before starting our RTL game. I have WoD, I have read alot of strategy on here and the FFG forums, i dont wanna go for a early win, but i also dont want to let the heroes have an easy game either. Any advice for this first campaign will be appreciated.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Worst cases of bad luck in a game of RtL?

DavidT — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:38:50 +0000

by DavidT

Not for a die roll, necessarily, but our last session included an overworld encounter with only kobolds. From the OL's perspective, it felt like epic fail. :zombie:

File: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Monster stats for Rtl including AoD,WoD,ToI

tosc — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:59:48 +0000

by tosc

Monster stats for Rtl including AoD,WoD,ToI for Board Game: Descent: The Road to Legend ]]>

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Re: OL Upgrade Priority

redneedle — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:28:32 +0000

by redneedle

edroz wrote:
Sniping Silver Skeletons. How my heroes hate them. :devil: Hello mister mage or ranger hiding behind that tank. Range 7? No problem.

Throw in upgraded sorcerers and dark priests. Lovely. And if you have Tomb of Ice... Shades and the Ice Wyrm. Silver master shade with pierce 5, Stealth and Ghost. Tank killer. And let's not forget silver Demons.

Definitely go with the silver Eldritch as first upgrade. It will pay off very quickly. Then snipers, a cheap second lt and then treachery.

If you haven't already, check out my session report series. I'm using the Sorcerer King. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/404986

Commenting as one of Ed's heroes(Varikas.) Ed is almost 100% right.

If one of your heroes is a high armor taunter then skip snipers. The extra lengths he has to go through to pick on the wizard and archer is made that much worse.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Rough idea for a new endgame.

Demo_Boy — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:14:15 +0000

by Demo_Boy

When Skeletor posts about ameritrash, its worth listening.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Worst cases of bad luck in a game of RtL?

Andy_X — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:54:36 +0000

by Andy_X

Last night I managed to roll 4 consecutive misses: 2 Master Beastmen, 1 Master Skeleton and 1 ordinary Beastmen all managed to roll an X on their respective dices, when attacking a Landrec with only 4 wounds left. I believe the odds of that happening are somewhere around 1:1300.

Any particularly memorable fails in your campaigns?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: CT's: What am I doing wrong?

shnar — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:57:04 +0000

by shnar

I actually like Humanoid upgrade, unless I'm playing SK and got Sniper Skeletons. Beastmen are really common, and Silver Master Beastmen are great at the Copper level.

If this was only your second session, don't sweat it. Game is progressing along nicely. The other advice I can think of is to make sure you're using your trap cards. Sometimes when I play, I neglect trap cards cause either I'm very much in the lead and feel bad for the Heroes, or I just plain forget.

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: CT's: What am I doing wrong?

artmark — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:27:40 +0000

by artmark

it's huge when you upgrade one of your monster groups from copper to silver. (just flip it over and look) it's stats basically double. you have 29 points, so on your next turn you get a point then at 30 you have enough to upgrade any class you want, no matter what avatar you chose. Eldritch are probably the save bet, they come up most often in encounters and spawn cards.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: CT's: What am I doing wrong?

Andy_X — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:05:38 +0000

by Andy_X

Long story short: we've just finished our 2nd game of RtL, with me Overlord-ing it.

The score right now is heroes: 46, OL: 29.

In our last dungeon I killed 3 of the heroes twice (2 x 3-CT heroes and 1 x 2-CT hero), which netted me the princely amount of 16 CT's. Add another 3 for going through my deck once, and a final one for the "default" OL-CT, and I came out of the dungeon with 20 CT's.

The heroes, meanwhile, got 9 CT's from glyphs and 10 from leaders (one of the levels had 2 bosses) - which meant that I "won" that game week by a pathetic 1 CT. The heroes also got tons and tons of gold - think they've got around 4 grand in the bank at the moment.

Going by the word on these forums that the OL should have a comfortable CT-lead when going into silver, I'm setting myself up for a pretty nasty hammering later in the game - but I don't know what I'm doing wrong! I think I played the last dungeon really, really well (6 kills) - yet that was only enough to draw even!

I haven't upgraded anything yet (treachery or monsters), so I'm hoping that will help me a bit - but as it is, they're just going through my minions like they weren't even there. :{

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Rough idea for a new endgame.

Nitewolf — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:56:51 +0000

by Nitewolf

MrSkeletor wrote:
... I had this idea for the final dungeon while sitting on the toilet ...all of the numbers and formulas I have used I have pulled straight out of my ass

now that's what I call graphic description. :p

reads interesting tho, sounds like a good base to develope from.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Rough idea for a new endgame.

MordredofFairy — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:44:10 +0000

by MordredofFairy

it reads very interesting...albeit i see 2 problems with it.:

1.: most of the final battles are rather one-sided on the hero's side...with their high damage output, they often kill the avatar before he has a chance to deal sufficient damage.

Here: you soften the overlord by NOT giving him additional HP based on Conquest totals and STRENGHTEN the heroes by not making their deaths permanent(in other words, the big boss is a easier target while 1 or 2 deaths should not matter too much for the heroes...the opposite, they get a "free" fatigue-refill).

I believe that the group would just focus-fire on the big guy and be done with it.

2.: beastman has his own "final" area, and the one for dragon is "reshaped" before final battle...in those, it will not help much to "not remove monsters from the map"...

3.: overlord cards: dance of the monkey god kind of feels compulsory here, i'd say...either way, most overlords during the whole dungeon would save up the best cards to unload at the end, during the inevitable final battle. that overlord would throw aimed rage attacks like no tomorrow while stuff spawns left and right. don't get me wrong, THAT part would feel climactic, i am just not sure if that would work properly, and equally for all overlords(again, e.g. beastman has a small space making spawning hard, with his treachery...while spider queen "forces" them to move(lest they want a web token) allowing traps to be played.)...

really, i love the idea, but i see #1 as a big problem, with the overlord not getting extra HP for the conquest gained, some of them will die _FAST_ (a thoughened diamond bane spider with a little armor? don't make me laugh...not much harder(if at all) than a level boss)...that would need to be remedied in some way.

Also, if the deal is to get them above 350 conquest, i'd like to throw in one suggestion i was contemplating:
Allow level bosses in the overlords keep to be subsituted with LT's...if I'm the sorcerer king and have a gold alric farrow, why would i entrust the portal key to my private chambers to a copper beastman?...

the idea would be that instead of the normal level boss, the overlord may place any LT reinforcing the keep as level boss instead...if he dies, the reinforcement card is lost, naturally. regardless, in some instances it may be worth it...

or allow ONE LT to be added as a "bodyguard" to the avatar battle, as long as the LT is alive, all damage done to the avatar instead is dealt to the LT, only after he died can the heroes attack the avatar directly.-

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Rough idea for a new endgame.

Hankroyd — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:58:19 +0000

by Hankroyd

Just read it diagonnaly at work, but it makes sense and seems interesting.

You should sit on that toilet more often. :)

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Rough idea for a new endgame.

MrSkeletor — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:05:53 +0000

by MrSkeletor

Lots of people seem to think the final showdown is bit of a letdown, so here is a potential alternative. I had this idea for the final dungeon while sitting on the toilet so none of it has been playtested in the slightest, and all of the numbers and formulas I have used I have pulled straight out of my ass and will most likely need adjusting. If there seems to be interest in this I will develop it further.

The basic idea is that instead of the Overlord being the only part of the final showdown, the entire overlords keep becomes the showdown. You will need to find some markers to act as ‘resurrection tokens’. Here is how it works:
As normal, once the overlord and the heroes pass a combined total of 600 conquest tokens, the Final Battle begins. When the Final Battle is determined to have begun at the beginning of a game week the players immediately stop carrying out the normal game week steps and instead do the following, in order:
1. The party marker is moved to Tamalir, and each hero may
train once, in one of the buildings there.
2. The party marker is moved to the location of the Overlord’s
Keep.
3. The players reduce the heroes’ conquest token totals to zero, with any unspent XP being lost. the overlord does not reduce his conquest token total, it remains as is!
4. The heroes explore the Overlord’s Keep.

The Overlord’s Keep is explored like a normal save that it has five levels rather than
three. The first four levels are explored like normal dungeon levels, with each level’s portal leading to the next level. Players may still restock in Talimar as they do so in other dungeons. Heroes may not however flee from the final dungeon.
The fifth level of the dungeon is laid out as per the rules in the RTL rulebook, however there are no changes made when the avatar appears – he is treated as a normal dungeon leader or lieutenant. In other words when the avatar appears:
- Other monsters are NOT removed from the board.
- The overlord keeps his Overlord cards and deck.
- The rules for increasing the heroes and Avatar’s maximum wounds based on conquest totals are ignored.
- The Avatar can still “battle”, “run” and “advance” like a lieutenant.
- Heroes killed by the avatar are not gone forever (they may resurrect as normal, see below), but if the Avatar struck the killing blow he does still heal 2 wounds for every conquest token that hero was worth.

Due to the Avatar feeding off death, resurrection is more difficult in the OL’s keep. When a hero is killed the OL does not get any conquest points straight away, rather he gets them when the hero attempts to resurrect. A hero may resurrect at the beginning of any of his turns – if he doesn’t resurrect his turn is passed, if he does then the amount of Conquest the OL gains is based on the following formula:

TOTAL = CP * 2^R

Where:
TOTAL is the total conquest added to the OL score (remember this number is added to the amount the OL gained throughout the campaign – the OL did not reset his CP to 0 at the start of this dungeon.)
CP is the Conquest Point value of the hero in question.
R is the amount of Resurrection Tokens that hero has.

If the total conquest gained by the overlord would take his Conquest Total over 350 then the hero may NOT resurrect!
After a hero is resurrected (and the overlord gains his Conquest), he appears in the temple as normal and also adds one resurrection token to his sheet. Thus the more times the hero resurrects in the final dungeon, the more Conquest the OL gains!

Heroes may spend the Conquest Tokens they gather in the final dungeon at any time for one of the following effects:
- For 2 Conquest, the reinforcement token is immediately flipped to its ‘spent’ side (ie eyes down.)
- For 5 Conquest, 1 resurrection token may be removed from one hero’s sheet.

If the heroes kill the avatar, they immediately win (the remaining monsters flee the dungeon.)
If there are no more heroes on the board, and none of them can resurrect doing so will give the OL more than 350 conquest points, then the overlord is victorious!

Thoughts?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: TRTL, errors made - remove XP. help?

LoneCleric — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:19:25 +0000

by LoneCleric

Tyrfing wrote:
Draagyn wrote:
The players have entered some dungeons, but have left after the first level. It means that i had about 10 xp total, while the players had more.

I haven't played the game yet, so I may be mistaken, but from what I remember from reading the rules is that you can only enter a legendary dungeon if you're behind in XP.

So in the described scenario the heroes would not be able to even enter the dungeon...

I was going to point out that technically, the heroes have to be behind in total conquest tokens, not XPs, the two being slightly different concept.

But rereading the OP, it seems that he, too, is using "XP" when he means "Conquest", so probably a moot point... :shake:

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: End of the week?

shnar — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:30:13 +0000

by shnar

No, what they are referring to is going *down* into the dungeon, i.e. drawing a dungeon card, setting up the tiles, killing monsters, etc. Once a dungeon has been explored, you can never explore it again. The space on the overland map is still there. The Heroes have to still stop there, they just do nothing.

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: End of the week?

timstellmach — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:30:03 +0000

by timstellmach

I think you're over-analyzing. "All encounters and/or dungeons" is just less awkward than "any encounter (if any) and/or dungeon (if any)."

It need not by any means be taken to imply that multiple trails per week are even possible. If the plural is all you've got to go on, you're on the shakiest ground imaginable.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: TRTL, errors made - remove XP. help?

shnar — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:28:40 +0000

by shnar

That is correct, and very easy to miss, that the Heroes cannot enter a legendary dungeon unless they are behind in XP.

As for grabbing the gold and running, they *can*, but it would be very difficult for them to do so, since IIRC the dragon is blocking the Town Portals. Unless of course the dragon just killed them all and while they were in town they decided to flee.

The idea of that dungeon is that the Heroes will get at least one treasure pile, since the dragon won't appear until they grab one treasure pile. After that, they have to decide if they want piles 2 and 3. And they are fools if they fled. Money becomes *very* rare towards the end of a campaign, so to pass up on $2k of gold, that's really foolish.

As for gaining surges, you played it right. There is no rule that says you have to inflict damamge in order to earn your Threat. The only rule is that you cannot role the X "miss" result. Even if you didn't get enough range to reach the Hero, you still gain the Threat from the surges. The only caveat in the FAQ is that there must be a *target* for the attack. This keeps the OL from having a beastman in a corner attacking the air for extra threat.

And the hero that was sacrificed, I assume she had Divine Retribution? The FAQ has stated that a hero cannot kill the other hero for this effect, the OL has to kill the Hero.

It looks like the only thing you were playing wrong was the Heroes killing the other Hero for the bonus. Your heroes are playing well, not going too deep, but sounds like so far it's a good campaign :)

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: End of the week?

MordredofFairy — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:27:53 +0000

by MordredofFairy

yep, several encounters because of several lt's, e.g.

as for the dungeons, i believe it's because every "dungeon" per se is a "set" of 3 dungeons, or dungeon levels. It's an incosistency, but i'd say this is what it refers to, it should be "dungeon levels" not "dungeons".

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: End of the week?

wattman74 — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:14:12 +0000

by wattman74

Hi all!
I don't understand.. In the faq:
Can the party land on or move through a dungeon location that has been explored using a week's move action?
They may end on or move through the location. They may not re-enter an already explored dungeon.
Does it mean that the heroes can go along a second trail during the same week?
if not, why in the rules
"End of the Week:
Once all encounterS and/or dungeonS are completed, a
new game week begins."
EncounterS: because 2 lieutenants can be in same place
DungeonS: Is it possible enter more than one dungeon during a week?
Thanks for responses

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: TRTL, errors made - remove XP. help?

Tyrfing — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:56:47 +0000

by Tyrfing

Draagyn wrote:
The players have entered some dungeons, but have left after the first level. It means that i had about 10 xp total, while the players had more.

I haven't played the game yet, so I may be mistaken, but from what I remember from reading the rules is that you can only enter a legendary dungeon if you're behind in XP.

So in the described scenario the heroes would not be able to even enter the dungeon...

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: TRTL, errors made - remove XP. help?

Draagyn — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:38:00 +0000

by Draagyn

We're playing a session of road to legend, and is quite new to this game
I'm managing the overlord, and we have played for about 6-7 rounds.

The players have entered some dungeons, but have left after the first level. It means that i had about 10 xp total, while the players had more.
They decided to enter the legendary dungeon: Caverns of Thuul
They killed the one crystal dragon, then entered room 2, grabbed the treasure and just fled. Which means they got 2000 gold in total.
I got 63 XP total. I got alot of lucky rolls, and they died alot. I had the evil genious in play from the first level, so i got alot of exra cards that could be discarded for threat.

error 1: We have calculated the surges wrong. We thought that the OL got a threat token for all 2 surges he rolled that did'nt missed. The OL have to give damage in order to gain threat from the surges.

Error 2: The players made one of their heroes run into a group of monsters, and then they shot her themself. When she died she took alot of unnamed monsters with her. Some rules says that that cannot be done.

My main questions is:
1) As we have calculated the surges wrong, and the error 2. will it be fair to remove some of my XP, and how much?

2) Can the players just grap the gold and leave without killing the dragon?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: Re: First Road to Legend Campaign with the new arrived German Version of the Game

shnar — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:31:08 +0000

by shnar

We played that it stops where it hits. We were thinking maybe it would "shatter" where it hits, but ended up just leaving the marker. Crushing Block traps are good on that level.

Also, if your Heroes are having a hard time, they need to FLEE! There is no reason they have to go through all 3 levels of a dungeon, in fact, early on in the game, it's advisable to NOT go through all 3 levels. The deeper you go through a dungeon, the tougher it is on the Heroes. They have fewer potions, fewer health/fatigue, the OL has more cards, may have Power Cards in play, has more Threat, etc. There are a LOT of dungeons on the map, so if it gets tough, just flee and try another map.

But 13 hours, wow! Looks like your players were really anxious for this game :)

-shnar

Session: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Sessions:: First Road to Legend Campaign with the new arrived German Version of the Game

CJoe — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:16:13 +0000

by CJoe

Wow, we waited so long for this Expansion, so we played for 13 hours in our first Session.

We used Altar of Destpair, because you can´t buy the other Expansions in Germany at present.

So we startet our first Round with
me as the OL with Sorcerer King and Obsidian Shackles and a Sniper Upgrade, and 4 Heroes (played by two Players, the Others didn´t have time to join...)

The Party consisted of
Andira Runehand with Spiritwalker (this skill is made for Andira!)
Kirga with Skilled
Red Skorpion with Blessing (this Char is a little to weak...)
Tahlia with Tiger Tattoo (and much Armor...:-( )

The Heroes went to Starfallto Forest, and after losing 4 Health from an encounter card they started their First Dungeon

We did the Levels 18, 21 an 10.

The Heroes did well on the first floor, but without copper treasures and the cheapest weapons like daggers and no potions, because Andire needed a ring of Protection... they were a little messed up.
On the second floor, they did a good job (i dont like this map...) and finally bought some Copper treasures (two shields, one of it Unholy for the Tank Tahlia)
The last floor was good balanced and really fun.

Sorry, not to describe the exact dungeons, because after 13 hours of playing, i was a little too tired to do some notes to remember...
Score after that:OL 36, Heroes 20

After a little Training, (Kirga +1 Range Dice; Tahlia +Mighty; OL +Silver Eltrich +Sir Merric) the Heroes decided to save Dawnsmoor from Sir Alric.
The Journey was interrupted by a Caos Beast witch took out two Heroes and regained so much Health that the others fled.
After that, they entered Blackwing Swamp (so that Alric could "join" with his Powercard ;-) )
We played the Levels 38 and 37.

The first Round was fun for the OL, throwing Stones around was funny (one kill in first round, if i remember correctly) but because of too many Questions regarding throwing stones, i used that Special only once!
The second Level on the other hand was a total hit in the face for the OL. The Spiders were Trapped all in the eastern Hall, with the Tank blocking the way and no chance of doing damage!!! The elite Troll (Power card made it elite) missed two attacks that could have hurt three Heroes and died without doing harm...

Only some Wizards, spawned after killing the tourches of the Heros to shorten their line of sight, were able to do some OL exp.

Endscore of the Day:
OL: 65
Heroes: 35

For the next session, we also drew the last Dungeon Card, and it was No. 15!! (three Bosses, two of the on Silver! i´m looking forward to that ;-P )

Half through copper in our first session, i am looking forward to our next meeting!

Question to all Veterans in Descent: What happens when a rubble Block is thrown and hits a wall? Does it stop were it is, is it reflected like in Billiard, does it even come back and kill the Level Boss himself?

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: other expansions necessary?

MordredofFairy — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:28:34 +0000

by MordredofFairy

i'd recommend reading the thread DIRECTLY BELOW this one, asking basically EXACTLY the same question.(if it's possibly to play with only base.)

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/413701

I'm not bitter, just not going to re-type the whole paragraph in right the next thread coming up.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: other expansions necessary?

scottandkimr — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:36:33 +0000

by scottandkimr

Thanks, all!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: other expansions necessary?

shnar — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:23:57 +0000

by shnar

This has come up multiple times, but it's definately fine to play with the base. Options are a little limited, but not extremely. And the balance still seems all right, since some of the more powerful Hero skills/weapons are in the expansions, not having Treachery or the other Monsters is okay.

Having said that, I would highly encourage picking up *all* the expansions. They all add some fun elements, and make the game feel just more full.

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: other expansions necessary?

eselred — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:01:47 +0000

by eselred

It is possible to play Road to Legend with the base set only, but it adds a lot of options for the overlord if you have another expansion or two. There are two main benefits. You will have more choices of monsters with which to populate the dungeon and you will be able to load your OL deck with treachery cards. Both are invaluable weapons in the OL's arsenal. I haven't personally played without the expansions, but I would think that the OL would have a harder time of it without them. Not to say that it wouldn't be fun, but it would change the balance and reduce available options.

Given the choice between playing a Road to Legend campaign without other expansions and playing vanilla Descent with any or all of the expansions, I would choose to play Road to legend.

If you're going to pick one expansion, I would get Well of Darkness, although Altar of Despair is almost equally as good.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: other expansions necessary?

Tanakor — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:01:10 +0000

by Tanakor

scottandkimr wrote:
Would it be possible to play RTL with just the base set? Thanks

Yes, you only need basic Descent.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: other expansions necessary?

scottandkimr — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:50:57 +0000

by scottandkimr

Which, if any, other expansions do you need to play RTL? Would it be possible to play RTL with just the base set? Thanks

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Did anyone play a RtL campaign with only vanilla Descent and enjoyed it?

ScrewTape — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:53:32 +0000

by ScrewTape

yes! we are currently playing RtL w/o any other expansions and having fun. (RtL is the only expansion that i own so maybe i don't know what i'm missing out on) :)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dungeon 26 - spoilers

timstellmach — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:34:18 +0000

by timstellmach

Having seen no FAQ or errata on this, I have to suppose it means what it says. I should say "had" to suppose, since we just played it that way.

So, all monsters in that section die, no matter how they got there or whether they're "from" that section in some sense. And, not if they're in a different section at the time.

Octavian, you're thinking of areas. The dungeon in question divides its layout up for the purposes of this rule, but never says that these are areas.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Strategy:: Re: Fair FUn way to add feats to RtL

Gnart — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:15:31 +0000

by Gnart

Sounds interesting and as a simple soulution, even if it is still a power boost to players.

IE if the players always chose to reject Overlords ofer then they are no worse off than not having any feats, but the overlord looses some power.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Reviews:: Re: I'll stick with Vanilla, thanks

Andy_X — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:15:07 +0000

by Andy_X

David,

Having just started our first RtL-session (as OL), I have no way of knowing if I'll end up feeling like you do about it now. I hope not, but some of your points sound very reasonable to me.

My way of trying to deal with the "seesaw problem" is that I've long since recognised the fact that I'll in all likelihood lose in the end (unless I sack Tamalir, which sounds a bit... anticlimatic). I don't mind this, as I know that this is just the way the game is made, and that as OL I'm fighting an uphill battle pretty much all the way.

This mindset (and a younger brother who goes absolutely apeshit whenever I kill his character, even if the heroes are doing great in general! :D) enables me to take pleasure in the little victories, and disregard the (almost) inevitable defeat I'll incur in the end.

In short: I try to think of myself not as the 5th player in a coopoerative boardgame, but rather as a dungeonmaster in a 4-player dungeoncrawl. If I can make life tough for the heroes (and I'll do my very best to do so), so much the better - but winning is not my prime motivation for playing.

Hope that made sense - and thanx for your review. If nothing else, it made me think about my own approach to the game.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: A Few Clarifications, Please

longclaw16 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:19:38 +0000

by longclaw16

Very clear, Corbon. Thanks, all, for the quick replies.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Reviews:: Re: I'll stick with Vanilla, thanks

dhshaw22 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:51:59 +0000

by dhshaw22

Thank you for a well thought out review. I was thinking about writing a review on Road to Legend, but then I read yours and said, "That is exactly what I was going to write". So now there is no need for me to write another. I really enjoy vanilla Descent, but not Road to Legend. We've played up to Silver level and I've been the overlord.

I think the main issue I have is that there is no story whatsoever to follow for 100+ hours of gameplay. In vanilla Descent, there is some small flavor text to get that particular session going, but I'm not expecting a deep story to follow. I know that after 4-5 hours the session is done and there is nothing more to consider. With RtL, it seems like a single session lengthened to 100+ hours with no real point to it. Each session has gotten to be more boring than the last. Nothing really changes. There's no point to all the dungeon crawling. All it serves to do is allow the heroes to find better weapons and the OL to upgrade. But in the end it all boils down to beefing up to eventually fight the OL. Now we have the final battle, which doesn't seem very climatic to me, and then it's done. So I spent 100+ hours to earn the right to fight a battle. For me that's pointless. For others, maybe not.

I'll stick with vanilla Descent also. I know it wraps up in one evening and then we can move on to something very different the next time we play.

Thanks for the great review.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Did anyone play a RtL campaign with only vanilla Descent and enjoyed it?

MordredofFairy — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:56:20 +0000

by MordredofFairy

i wouldn't define it as a complete waste of time, but:

1.: 2 of the dungeon loadouts require AoD and WoD, respecitvely, in most cases.
That leaves only 2 dungeon loadouts remaining. Expect to see tons of skeletons(even more than normally) and a couple of beastman, with not much else.

2.: Treachery definitely adds...more than in normal games of descent, since here you ARE actually building your deck, over time. You're a persona...the "simplified treachery" things never really had appealed to me.

3.: Treasure Decks and Potions.
The smaller the Treasure Decks, the more likely they get to abuse it via treasure vaults...also, while the invincibilty potion didn't cut it, the power potion, at times, was preferrable over stamina potions(at least early-game). Without those options, there will be not many choices as to what equipment will be used, and almost all potions will be stamina.

4.: Skills
By exluding the expansion skills, not only are the hero-building-options limited severely, but also the value of certain cities for the heros. They don't need a large market(as the treasure deck is small, they don't need markets to search for something useful), they don't need to protect certain cities(only one or no worthwhile skill there without expansion), they'll just go dungeoneering(against hordes of skeletons) and getting their secret training, rinse, repeat.

I believe it was seriously designed to be played with at LEAST one expansion, preferrably both from before(Tomb of Ice adds a little, but came later). Otherwise things will feel very streamlined...Avatar customization is less powerful without treachery(e.g. spider queen: excluding some useless spawns and including even more traps into the deck is WAY different from what simplified treachery does), hero options are less(hero's themselves, skills to get, items to find), and the dungeons will be even less diverse(they are already skeleton-heavy as they are, but will feel even more so without expansions).

If you are bound on trying it out without expansion, i'd suggest starting in silver campaign level, aka a speeded up campaign game.

As you DO own the expansions though, i strongly recommend adding them in. The play mechanics are not changed in any way by including the expansions, it just adds a few more options for everything and everybody, all around. Not that many to be overwhelming or get people into Analysis Paralysis, but adding meaningful choices for both sides to what could otherwise feel a bit like a railshooter.

As a matter of fact, i myself only played the base game with a few friends a couple times to see how it would run with my group, then bought the expansions and road to legend in one set and started a campaign while interest in the game was still high, using the expansions right off the bat, without playing a single scenario provided by them. Worked like a charm, and the first time a troll used bash successfully got referenced throught the campaign-...

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: Did anyone play a RtL campaign with only vanilla Descent and enjoyed it?

RedV — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:28:06 +0000

by RedV

I started my RtL campaign with only the base set and we all had a great time with it. It inspired me to get the expansions but I did not feel they were necessary.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Did anyone play a RtL campaign with only vanilla Descent and enjoyed it?

Jumo — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:08:00 +0000

by Jumo

I own JitD and all expansions, but somehow would like to start my first RtL campaign with only the base game as I didn't use the expansions yet. Probably, hopefully I'll introduce these later.

I know that previous questions concerning RtL and expansions always got the advice of at least adding WoD, mainly for the Treachery cards.

Therefore this stubborn question. Did anyone actually play a RtL campaign with only vanilla Descent and enjoyed it? Or is it a complete waste (of a lot) of time? If it's a complete waste of time, I wouldn't like to be the first one to find this out.

Many thanks for your answers!

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Question Re: Knockback

corbon — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 02:56:56 +0000

by corbon

DavidT wrote:

Heh. Well, the level we were playing had a skeleton leader with knockback, which was where it just became really silly. Ranged attack with an arrow that then pulls you toward the skelly that fired it?

Dude, its magic!

It is a skeleton, firing a bow with non-existent muscle mass.

Further, it is a super-duper skeleton with extra special magic abilities.

The whole 'firing a bow' thing is just the visual representation and the dice simply are factors that get a certain average result.

At this level of suspended reality, calling something 'silly' is, well, silly! ;)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: A Few Clarifications, Please

corbon — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 02:38:42 +0000

by corbon

MrSkeletor wrote:
Hankroyd wrote:

I don't have the rules near me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.
Forge has a market of 2. First I draw treasure until I get one needed (here it's a weapon or armor) after this I shuffle card and draw the next card(s) normally.
But by asking this you make me doubt. Can someone confirm ?

I don't think you need to shuffle the deck where I bolded, you just draw the next cards.
Otherwise sounds right.

Indeed. To clarify further, the cards that were drawn before the first weapon/armour are discarded (ie not available at the market this week - unless you go all the way through the deck!).
So you drawn and discard, draw and discard... through the deck looking for the first market item (which must be of the specific type, weapon/armour for Forge). Once you have the first item in the market you continue drawing cards (as normal) until the market is filled.

Hopefully that made things clearer rather than more muddled. It really is a very straightforward process.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: A Few Clarifications, Please

MrSkeletor — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:54:05 +0000

by MrSkeletor

Hankroyd wrote:

I don't have the rules near me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.
Forge has a market of 2. First I draw treasure until I get one needed (here it's a weapon or armor) after this I shuffle card and draw the next card(s) normally.
But by asking this you make me doubt. Can someone confirm ?

I don't think you need to shuffle the deck where I bolded, you just draw the next cards.
Otherwise sounds right.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: My dice are way dark

shnar — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:00:34 +0000

by shnar

bleached_lizard wrote:
And by the way, there were two other expansions before RtL was even released, and only one after, so your statement can't be 100% true. ;)

Um, yeah, I think I was thinking of the base game, not the RtL dice. But still, my silver/gold look a lot like the ones pictured (and I bought RtL when it first came out :P).

-shnar

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: My dice are way dark

CorpCommander — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:09:49 +0000

by CorpCommander

Mine look like the ones in the picture and are easy to tell apart in crappy lighting at the game shop back room. Maybe you should take a picture of yours and post so we can all see a more objective view on them.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: Dice Boosting for Overlord

CorpCommander — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:45:32 +0000

by CorpCommander

Another thing I've had wrong. RtL is just one big mess of exceptions. I like it but it is hard to keep track of each exception like this. I much prefer mechanically consistant rule systems.

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: General:: Re: My dice are way dark

bleached_lizard — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:45:09 +0000

by bleached_lizard

shnar wrote:
I'm pretty sure mine is first print, as I think I bought it before any of the expansions were out. Is there a way to tell?

-shnar

Not as far as I'm aware. Unless you bought it very recently though, I would guess yours is first print too.

And by the way, there were two other expansions before RtL was even released, and only one after, so your statement can't be 100% true. ;)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: Re: A Few Clarifications, Please

Hankroyd — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:16:20 +0000

by Hankroyd

longclaw16 wrote:
1) Blast and Breath do nothing to enemy figures in trees (figures with Shadowcloak - unless you're adjacent to them, of course)?

Indeed

longclaw16 wrote:

2) When drawing market cards for places like Forge, draw until the first X card comes up. The rules state to draw the given Market rating number of cards and then choose from the drawn cards. Does the party get to choose from all the extra cards drawn before one of the specific cards came up? (We've bought all but one Rune in the Copper deck and our Overlord was wanting confirmation that it worked this way for purposes of the Market that searches for Runes.)

I don't have the rules near me, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.
Forge has a market of 2. First I draw treasure until I get one needed (here it's a weapon or armor) after this I shuffle card and draw the next card(s) normally.
But by asking this you make me doubt. Can someone confirm ?

longclaw16 wrote:

3) When interrupting the OL for a Guard order, suppose the OL has just declared an attack on a hero. Does the OL have to attack that particular hero after the Guard order has been resolved, or can he change his target?

Yes, he can.
By interrupting you prevented him to made the attack and change the situation on the board. If the monster has still move points left, the overlord can made some extra movement before really attacking (or being interrupted again)
The contrary is true too : If the overlord want to move and a Heroe intterupt him. He can choose after to not move and made his attack.

The same is true for the heroes too when Overlord interrupt an hero with one of his guard order (during a lieutnant or overlord encounter)

Reply: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Variants:: Re: Road to Legend 'Minimalist' House Rules

The_Immortal — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:56:07 +0000

by The_Immortal

A quick response to Simon in regards the Humanoid change:

Yes, bosses gain the benefit too. The only possible exceptions are the Beastman and Titan Avatars which as I stated, I haven't yet played for spoiler-reasons. It's possible the boost is not appropriate there.

I'm glad to hear of anyone using these variants, or other related ones. I too would be happy to hear the outcome and post-mortem analysis of any such games. In my own campaign, I'm definitely finding that the way I've proposed handling feats (Heroes get a big 3-choose-1 draw at the start of each dungeon but don't keep them in between dungeons) makes a HUGE difference at Copper level. The feats make the Heroes more than a match for Copper monsters, it will certainly take Silver monsters to save the day.

Thread: Descent: The Road to Legend:: Rules:: A Few Clarifications, Please

longclaw16 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:50:49 +0000

by longclaw16

1) Blast and Breath do nothing to enemy figures in trees (figures with Shadowcloak - unless you're adjacent to them, of course)?

2) When drawing market cards for places like Forge, draw until the first X card comes up. The rules state to draw the given Market rating number of cards and then choose from the drawn cards. Does the party get to choose from all the extra cards drawn before one of the specific cards came up? (We've bought all but one Rune in the Copper deck and our Overlord was wanting confirmation that it worked this way for purposes of the Market that searches for Runes.)

3) When interrupting the OL for a Guard order, suppose the OL has just declared an attack on a hero. Does the OL have to attack that particular hero after the Guard order has been resolved, or can he change his target?