Le Havre | BoardGameGeek

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:50:01 +0000

Please stop posting new ideas for a moment!

I'm currently converting this thread into a geeklist. I'll copy your ideas into it and then we'll continue discussion and adding new elements there. This thread starts to get confusing by now.

I'll post the link, once I'm ready, here.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Alan Stern — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:48:14 +0000

by Alan Stern

Commercial Bank
Cost: 5F (or whatever)
No Entry Fee

Player receives 12F and 2 loans.

(The player is choosing to take out a small business loan from the bank. The Commercial Bank offers more favorable terms than for normal loans -- 6F per loan instead of only 4F.)

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:42:44 +0000

by Ponton

kenjy wrote:
Ponton wrote:
As someone pointed out he'd like to see more buildings that refer to the building symbols: We already have a lot of those buildings and are currently testing them. ;)

I've been giving some thought to building costs, but not much to symbols or fees assocaited with the cards. I assumed the ideas were more important, and that Uwe would want to tinker with the details on his own.

That's perfectly fine. The idea is all we want. And, hopefully, that some of you are willing to test their own ideas to report if they work. I guess Uwe will need to test them himself, but any input is appreciated.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:39:42 +0000

by kenjy

Ponton wrote:
As someone pointed out he'd like to see more buildings that refer to the building symbols: We already have a lot of those buildings and are currently testing them. ;)

I've been giving some thought to building costs, but not much to symbols or fees assocaited with the cards. I assumed the ideas were more important, and that Uwe would want to tinker with the details on his own.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Emergency Response Office

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:37:52 +0000

by kenjy

Emergency Response Office
12 gold
Occupant of building can commandeer another player's boat to ship emergency goods. Player takes boat from other player and fills with own goods for shipping. Player does not need to be in Emergency Response Office to ship. Boat is returned to owner at end of turn. Owner of boat can choose to receive 3 francs from bank as compensation or ship one of his own goods in place of one of the emergency supplies of his choosing.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:30:33 +0000

by Ponton

As someone pointed out he'd like to see more buildings that refer to the building symbols: We already have a lot of those buildings and are currently testing them. ;)

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Madoff's magical pyramid

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:50:20 +0000

by kenjy

6 francs

Upon entering building, player places 5 francs on card. If another player wishes to occupy the building, the original player is removed and takes back the 5 francs as well as 5 francs from the bank.The next player then occupies the space until another sucker--I mean player--comes along and offers to take his place.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

dreadpirate — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:20:21 +0000

by dreadpirate

Crop Circle (In the same vein as Agricola's X-deck)

10 grain --(x1)--> You receive this card to use as a (space) ship {equal in function to a steel ship}. Your token remains on the ship when it is taken into your possession. At the end of the round you receive food as if this card were a steel ship.
Once your token is removed, you retain this card as a Steel ship.
Any player who then uses this card may (must) use it as a 'Crop Circle'; the new player gains the card to use as above, and the original player loses their 'Steel ship'.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Alan Stern — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:59:31 +0000

by Alan Stern

Backyard Barbeque
Cost: 5F
Entry Fee: 1 food

1 clay, 1 cattle, 1 grain ---2x---> 3 meat

Trying to evoke a backyard party with a grill. By entering this building (1 food entry fee - everyone has to bring a dish to the BBQ), a player uses the grill (the clay) to "cook" burgers (the cow) and toast "buns" (the grain) in order to have a meal (the meat). While it would have been slightly more thematic to go with bread instead of grain, I wanted to improve the efficiency of the building (converts 7F of unprocessed goods into 9F of processed goods). Could change the 3 meat to 2 meat and 2 bread (burgers - meat & buns), but I thought that improving the efficiency even further might be too much. (Maybe not?)

EDIT: The 2x limit is because getting 9 or 12 meat a pop might be too much, especially for the number of cattle it costs. (Maybe not?)

EDIT3: Ooh, idea! Make it:

1 clay total // 1 cattle, 1 grain ---2x---> 3 meat

The grill is a static cost of 1 clay, similar to the 1 energy for The Smokehouse. Could adjust the power slightly by increasing the clay cost to 2 clay total. Then might want to increase it to 3x.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

UnknownParkerBrother — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:48:31 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

What's the actual time period of this game?

It always seemed sort of 1950ish to me. Some of these proposals seem way more modern than the base game.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: How good is the marketplace actually?

UnknownParkerBrother — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:45:00 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Yes. I've never understood the fixation on *owning* the Marketplace. Using it, fine. Can be very nice, if you've got the buildings.

Several times I've owned the Marketplace, and my wife has had better use of it, because she bought all the better buildings to use with it.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:42:28 +0000

by kneumann

jsciv wrote:
kneumann wrote:
A few others:

Condemnation:
...
Dilapidation:
...

Doing either of these to the Shipping Line and Bridge Over the Seine in one game would be completely game-devastating.

Very true. If it would ~~break~~ change the game too much if used on some of the "powerful" cards, a few exceptions could be added.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: United Dockworkers Headquarters

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:41:34 +0000

by kenjy

United Dockworkers Headquarters
8 francs
If a player occupies this building, ships cannot be loaded unless this player receives 1 franc per 2 goods loaded. Perhaps this rate could be adjusted according to the value of the goods.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

dreadpirate — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:34:02 +0000

by dreadpirate

ESSEN GAME FAIR

The cost to enter the Essen Game Fair is 1 Franc if your token is already in a town building. otherwise, the cost is 5 Francs.
Once a player enters the Essen Game Fair, all other players must exhibit extreme jealousy. The player entering the fair receives any 5 upgraded ('Promotional') goods. Each other player may immediately give this player 1 Franc in order to receive 1 of those upgraded goods of the original player's choice. Any player not able to pay the 1 Franc may call the Essen-attending player a "lucky bastard". At the end of the round in which the Essen game fair entered play, it is removed from the game.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

jsciv — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:33:31 +0000

by jsciv

kneumann wrote:
A few others:

Condemnation:
...
Dilapidation:
...

Doing either of these to the Shipping Line and Bridge Over the Seine in one game would be completely game-devastating.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: How good is the marketplace actually?

fragilehalos — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:31:42 +0000

by fragilehalos

There is usually someone who buys the marketplace in my games too, but I don't see the point as you it doesn't give a craftsman building symbol which gives you the bonus for using the marketplace. I usually try to buy one of the building firms early (the four or six valued start buildings) so that I have a hammer symbol and a craftsman building symbol for immediate benefits with the clay mound and the marketplace. Sure the owner of the marketplace gets to use it free, but if that owner doesn't have any craftsman building symbols, he's probably not using it that much either.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Dannecus — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:27:52 +0000

by Dannecus

I would like to see something that made more use of the building type symbols. Craftsman/Economic/Industrial/Public. I like the aspect of the game that sees competition for buildings based on what end game VPs come from the Bank and Town Hall, so to extend this with more benefits.
There is already the Town Square for Craftsman buildings

Industrial buildings
Cutlery factory
1 steel per industial building owned

Economic Buildings
Investment bank
2F per economic building owned

Public Buildings
Commercial Court
Cancel 1 loan per public building owned

Any that seem overly powerful could be toned down with heavy entry fees.

Railway Station (Gare du Havre)
Entry Fee 3F (for your ticket!)
A shipping option in between the shipping line and the bridge over the Siene. Requires cash to pay for the train as an option for cash rich shippers with no energy. Also quite a money maker to own. Ships max 6 goods.

Also for the Greens...
Re-cylcing plant
Re-cycle any two standard resources into two identical standard resources of your choice max 3 x. Could add the same for improved resources (2 for 2) but that might be too powerful.

Finally
ATM
entry cost 1 food, 3 francs per visit.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

jsciv — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:27:15 +0000

by jsciv

Harbormaster's Office:
Cost: 4
Entry fee: 1 Franc

You may switch the order of any two adjacent supply discs (ships on those discs remain in the same position, the discs are switched under them).

The other idea I had was a little less subtle, but I haven't tested the return:

Warehousing Firm:
Cost: 4
Entry fee: 2 food

Turn in a stack of five identical goods for 7 Francs (up to 4 times).

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:23:53 +0000

by kneumann

Bioengineer:
Cost: 8
Entry fee: 1 franc or 2 food
Any occupant in this building during a harvest gets 3x what they would otherwise get. If they have no grain and no cattle, they get 1 gain and 2 (cloned) cattle.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Tegre — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:09:33 +0000

by Tegre

monteslu wrote:
Even more of the nasty:

Bio research center
Build/Cost: very expensive.
Entry cost: moderate.
Can be used to spread a disease and destroy another players supply of cattle/meat fish/smokedfish for a cost of 1/2 franc per for non upgraded and 1 franc per upgraded.

Am I the only one who read this and thought it should come with 3 GIANT Cubes that cover the card from being read? :D

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:04:07 +0000

by kneumann

Ponton wrote:
kneumann wrote:
Credentials:
Cost: 2
Entry Fee: N/A
Place the Credentials on top of the proposal stack that has the lowest numbered building on top. The player who buys/owns this card can use it at anytime during the game in lieu of paying an entry fee. If used, the Credential card needs to be given to the owner of the building you enter. If used on a town building, place the Credential card back with the other town buildings (it cannot be repurchased by the player who used it in the same turn as it was used).

One problem: Which number would you give this building? This is important as the town builds the building with the lowest number. Remember: [00] is already taken by the Dunny.

I wasn't sure if it should have a high number forcing it to be bought before the other buildings or not. Another option is to just have it go into the town since it is so cheap. The idea is to just get it into circulation so either way should work.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

UnknownParkerBrother — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:03:18 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Ponton wrote:
One problem: Which number would you give this building? This is important as the town builds the building with the lowest number. Remember: [00] is already taken by the Dunny.

[0] or [000]. Followed by [0000]... :D

You could have duplicate numbers, with a small rule that both can't be in the same game.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:57:45 +0000

by Ponton

kneumann wrote:
Credentials:
Cost: 2
Entry Fee: N/A
Place the Credentials on top of the proposal stack that has the lowest numbered building on top. The player who buys/owns this card can use it at anytime during the game in lieu of paying an entry fee. If used, the Credential card needs to be given to the owner of the building you enter. If used on a town building, place the Credential card back with the other town buildings (it cannot be repurchased by the player who used it in the same turn as it was used).

One problem: Which number would you give this building? This is important as the town builds the building with the lowest number. Remember: [00] is already taken by the Dunny.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Bordello combo

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:56:11 +0000

by kenjy

SteveK2 wrote:
For those that would like to add a bit of screwage to the game:

The Bordello:

As your building action, you can move another player's token into the Bordello (entry fee 3F). The other player pays the entry fee. He also pays 1F every turn until he leaves the Bordello. If the other player doesn't have enough money to pay, he must take a loan.

The Bordello demands a companion building--The Clinic!

4 francs

Upon leaving the Bordello the player will be shunned, and must move to The Clinc and pay a 2 franc entry fee before being allowed to enter the Church, Grocery Market, Hardware Store, Baguette Shop, Bakery, Diner, Fish Restaurant, Steakhouse, Tavern, Zoo, or similar public buildings.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:44:55 +0000

by kneumann

Credentials:
Cost: 2
Entry Fee: N/A
Place the Credentials on top of the proposal stack that has the lowest numbered building on top. The player who buys/owns this card can use it at anytime during the game in lieu of paying an entry fee. If used, the Credential card needs to be given to the owner of the building you enter. If used on a town building, place the Credential card back with the other town buildings (it cannot be repurchased by the player who used it in the same turn as it was used).

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Hanno — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:32:14 +0000

by Hanno

tonksey wrote:
Uwe/Ponton,

Is the intention for any more potential special buildings to use as some kind of bonus, like 12 from last year? If we were to see more special buildings, I think a lot of us would prefer to pay for a whole set - or be able to donate to Lookout's charity - on the spot rather than get one card per 10 Euros spent or do the donation post-Essen.

Cheers,

Matt...

Though you didn't ask me, I'm the one who can give you the answer.
If we mange to get that mini-deck in print until Essen, it will be available as a full set instead of as promo cards.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:25:55 +0000

by kneumann

A few others:

Condemnation:
Cost: 20
Entry Fee: 4 francs
The occupant of this building can force another player to remove one of their buildings from the game. The owner of the removed building gets ½ of the value from the bank. Any player maker on such building is removed. Owner of Condemnation is immune.

Dilapidation:
Cost: 10
Entry Fee: See description
For a cost of 1 franc and 1 food per round, the occupant of this building can force another player to shut down (flip over) one of their buildings from the game. The payment is placed on the backside of the card and each round the owner of the shut down building can take 1 franc and 1 food from the back of the card into their supply. Once all amounts are taken from the back of the card, it can be flip back up and is open again for use. If the game ends prior to reopening, the owner takes any remaining amounts on the card and flips it back up for scoring. Any player marker on such building is removed.

Permit Office:
Cost: 10
Entry Fee: 1 franc/2 food
While this building is occupied, any other player who attempts to build any new building must pay the occupant of the Permit Office 1 franc or 2 foods before they do so and the occupant also gets a matching payment from the town.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

dreadpirate — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:24:15 +0000

by dreadpirate

Land Assessor's Office
Government Building
Cost : 10F
Entry fee : 1 Franc

A player entering this building may place a number of Francs on a building in the stacks. That building's value is increased by the Francs placed on it.
A player wishing to build or purchase that building must also match the number of Francs on the building, as a fee.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

monteslu — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:20:23 +0000

by monteslu

kenjy wrote:
Debtors prison

6 francs

Player may enter this building for 2 francs. Loans may then be repaid at a cost of 3 francs.

I like this, but I think you need to put a cap on it, otherwise someone could use it to buy several loans and make a profit with it.

... I think.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

UnknownParkerBrother — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:16:19 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

kenjy wrote:
Sausage plant
6 francs

Convert up to 3 goods to food, one of which must be a steer.
1 food for each wood or clay
2 food for each hide or grain
4 food for each steer

:laugh: That's hilarious.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Sausage plant

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:14:17 +0000

by kenjy

Sausage plant
6 francs

Convert up to 3 goods to food, one of which must be a steer.
1 food for each wood or clay
2 food for each hide or grain
4 food for each steer (but it doesn't have to be a healthy one)

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: How good is the marketplace actually?

QBert80 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:08:33 +0000

by QBert80

You are probably focusing too much on the early game. I think the actions you take late in the game (the ones leading up to the two shippings worth 60+ points, for example) are far more important than who builds the marketplace. The great thing about your marketplace-loving friends is that they are not emptying the offer spaces, leaving more things for you. The marketplace definitely comes into its own when you get 5+ things from it so if you can stop them from getting their fifth craftsman building that may help you mitigate its usefulness. Or, collect lots of craftsman buildings yourself if you see someone snatch up an early marketplace.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

monteslu — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:01:44 +0000

by monteslu

Even more of the nasty:

Bio research center
Build/Cost: very expensive.
Entry cost: moderate.
Can be used to spread a disease and destroy another players supply of cattle/meat fish/smokedfish for a cost of 1/2 franc per for non upgraded and 1 franc per upgraded.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

monteslu — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:57:19 +0000

by monteslu

Even more of the nasty:

Missle Silo
Build/Cost: very expensive.
Entry cost: moderate.
May be used to launch a warhead and destroy a building at a cost and a half of the building's worth plus half the building's worth in energy. Excludes wharfs and starting buildings.

edit: should take some energy to do this.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

monteslu — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:49:05 +0000

by monteslu

More of the nasty:

WitchHouse
Entry: 1Franc/1food
Pay 4 Francs for each player that you want to force to take a loan
Not sure about the cost.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Debtors prison

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:48:03 +0000

by kenjy

Debtors prison

6 francs

Player may enter this building for 2 francs. Loans may then be repaid at a cost of 3 francs.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:41:55 +0000

by kneumann

Let's get nasty:

Eminent domain:

Cost: 20
Entry Fee: 4 francs
The occupant of this building can force another player to sell one of their buildings to the town for ½ of the value. Any player marker on such building is removed. Owner of Eminent Domain is immune.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

dreadpirate — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:33:44 +0000

by dreadpirate

Alan Stern wrote:
kenjy wrote:
Pawn Shop
Cost: 8 Francs

Upon entering, player may sell up to 4 of any goods:
1/2 franc for each basic good
1 franc for each non-basic good
Any goods sold remain on card

or

Player may buy any existing goods on card
1 franc for each basic good
2 francs for each non-basic good

Card starts with one of each basic good placed and non-basic good stacked on it.

I vaguely recall there being a card like this already. (I could easily be wrong.)

dreadpirate wrote:
Book Bindery
Hammer symbol/Industrial building(?)
Cost : 5F
Entry fee : 1 food

2 WOOD --> 1/2 Franc
or
1 LEATHER --> 4 Franc

I like this idea, though I'd make it something like:

1 WOOD + 1 LEATHER ---4x---> 6 Francs

The 6F is based off leather giving 4F if you ship it. Maybe drop it to 5F, but I wanted it to be worth using. The joinery already provides an option to directly convert wood into coins. There's also that clothing special building, though I forget what the power looks like.

EDIT: Yep, the Pawnbroker from Le Havre Expansion - Essen Promo Cards.

The Furniture Factory is already Wood+Leather ---(no limit)---> 6

edit: Good point about the Joinery, though. Not much point in spending 4 wood to get 2 Francs when you can spend 1 to get 5: though it might be nice in the endgame to spend some wood to get coins at a higher limit (allow spending more than 3 wood max) to get coins.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: How good is the marketplace actually?

gische — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:30:57 +0000

by gische

friedricetheman wrote:
So, my question is, how do I prove my friends wrong? That the marketplace is NOT too powerful and it is possible to win without being the starting player with the marketplace.

I assume you are looking for a better answer than "actually beat him"? Because that does seem the obvious response.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Pawn shop

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:29:26 +0000

by kenjy

Don't own the Essen expansion set, so seemed new to me. However, I think mine better captures the spirit of the pawn shop--buys low and sells high. But I also like the way they allow the person to buy back their goods without visiting the broker. So much for reinventing the wheel.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Alan Stern — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:18:19 +0000

by Alan Stern

kenjy wrote:
Pawn Shop
Cost: 8 Francs

Upon entering, player may sell up to 4 of any goods:
1/2 franc for each basic good
1 franc for each non-basic good
Any goods sold remain on card

or

Player may buy any existing goods on card
1 franc for each basic good
2 francs for each non-basic good

Card starts with one of each basic good placed and non-basic good stacked on it.

I vaguely recall there being a card like this already. (I could easily be wrong.)

dreadpirate wrote:
Book Bindery
Hammer symbol/Industrial building(?)
Cost : 5F
Entry fee : 1 food

2 WOOD --> 1/2 Franc
or
1 LEATHER --> 4 Franc

I like this idea, though I'd make it something like:

1 WOOD + 1 LEATHER ---4x---> 6 Francs

The 6F is based off leather giving 4F if you ship it. Maybe drop it to 5F, but I wanted it to be worth using. The joinery already provides an option to directly convert wood into coins. There's also that clothing special building, though I forget what the power looks like.

EDIT: Yep, the Pawnbroker from Le Havre Expansion - Essen Promo Cards.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Pawn Shop

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:05:12 +0000

by kenjy

Pawn Shop
Cost: 8 Francs

Upon entering, player may sell up to 4 of any goods:
1/2 franc for each basic good
1 franc for each non-basic good
Any goods sold remain on card

or

Player may buy any existing goods on card
1 franc for each basic good
2 francs for each non-basic good

Card starts with one of each basic good placed and non-basic good stacked on it.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

eluvitar — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:03:28 +0000

by eluvitar

For those that would like to add a bit of screwage to the game:

The Bordello:

As your building action, you can move another player's token into the Bordello (entry fee 3F). The other player pays the entry fee. He also pays 1F every turn until he leaves the Bordello. If the other player doesn't have enough money to pay, he must take a loan.

I think this or an idea like it is a good idea and creates more interaction.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

tonksey — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:56:57 +0000

by tonksey

Uwe/Ponton,

Is the intention for any more potential special buildings to use as some kind of bonus, like 12 from last year? If we were to see more special buildings, I think a lot of us would prefer to pay for a whole set - or be able to donate to Lookout's charity - on the spot rather than get one card per 10 Euros spent or do the donation post-Essen.

Cheers,

Matt...

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

SteveK2 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:51:35 +0000

by SteveK2

aaxiom wrote:
SteveK2 wrote:
For those that would like to add a bit of screwage to the game:

The Bordello:

As your building action, you can move another player's token into the Bordello (entry fee 3F). The other player pays the entry fee. He also pays 1F every turn until he leaves the Bordello. If the other player doesn't have enough money to pay, he must take a loan.

Funny... this was the very first thing I thought of for some odd reason. Then you made it real. Interesting how that happens sometimes. :)

That'll be 3 Francs, please. :)

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

aaxiom — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:50:19 +0000

by aaxiom

Funny... this was the very first thing I thought of for some odd reason. Then you made it real. Interesting how that happens sometimes. :)

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

dreadpirate — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:48:29 +0000

by dreadpirate

Where's the evil? Here it is.

Tax Agent
Government building
Cost: 12F
Entry fee: None

When activated by a player, all players must immediately pay 5 Francs. Players unable to do so must take a loan.

Loan Interest now costs 2 Francs. A player who owns this building only pays 1 Franc in interest.

The bit about owning gives encouragement for a money-rich player to purchase the building, reducing their available cash (for balance).

Thread: Le Havre:: Strategy:: How good is the marketplace actually?

friedricetheman — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:34:26 +0000

by friedricetheman

I have a group of friends who claimed that the marketplace is too powerful. They would usually buy up the marketplace on their first turn if given a chance. The reason being (according to them), is that the marketplace allows them to take different types of resources early and as the early buildings need only 1 or 2 of each resource to build them, one move to the marketplace would secure them enough for a visit to the local construction firm or sawmill.

I, on the other hand, thinks marketplace is just a tad overrated. Sure, it is more powerful than.. say.. the tannery but still, it's usefulness decreases over time.

I played a game last night where I didn't visit the marketplace even once (player one bought it up on his first turn) and came in a close second at 235 points (the marketplace guy won the game at 240+ points). I could have close the gap if not for two mistakes that I made throughout the game (getting goods which were useless at the end of the game). Player 3, on the other hand, was hogging all the wood and making poor use of them (so she finished a distant third at 165). I build the sawmill in the first round, sold it later mid-game to repay off my loan, bought it back later when I got the business park (+2 points per industrial building).

I must admit I got off the blocks a bit slower than player one (probably due to his marketplace) but once I bought up the Construction Firm and used it 3 times over the course of the game to build 6 buildings off it I finally caught up. But it was not good enough as player one (aka marketplace-is-so-broken dude) did two huge shippings in the last round netting him 60+ points.

So, my question is, how do I prove my friends wrong? That the marketplace is NOT too powerful and it is possible to win without being the starting player with the marketplace.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

dreadpirate — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:32:51 +0000

by dreadpirate

Book Bindery
Hammer symbol/Industrial building(?)
Cost : 5F
Entry fee : 1 food

2 WOOD --> 1/2 Franc
or
1 LEATHER --> 4 Franc

There are no special buildings that allow change of just wood into Francs. Wood is so important to the beginning of the game that this would add a further choice: Do I use the wood for building or change it into cash?
For the later game, the option of changing Leather into cash, without needing a second good to accompany it, might make producing Leather a more attractive prospect (No one ever produces leather in our games).
{Also, Book Binderies used to believe that Leather binding a book helped to preserve it: No one does that now, so it's historical}

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:51:55 +0000

by Ponton

friedricetheman wrote:
I think I'm starting to like Loyang. It's shaping up to be another top 10 material. The game mechanics of choosing a partner is something new and if done correctly will add another level of interaction and depth. Imagine doing something on your turn and then your partner finishes the 'combo' on her turn. Nasty..

I'm sorry if I destroy your hopes right away, but you seem to misunderstand the parternship concept in this game: You don't chose a partner to play WITH, but AGAINST.

This works like this: First start player picks a partner, second start player gets to play with the remaining guy. First start player may not chose second start player as partner. Now, BOTH start players start to do their actions simultaneously. The role of the partner is to check if they're doing everything right and aren't cheating. The active players MUST NOT interact with each other. Each "partnership" is, for the moment, a completely seperate 2-player game. After one partner finished their turn, his partner starts their, completely independant from the other partnership. If one partnership is ready, they wait for the other partnership to be ready. Then the game proceeds as normal.

This mechanic is to shorten the overall play time and downtime. Your idea, however, sounds like a valid basis for a new game! Go ahead and do something with your idea as it really sounds brillant.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:46:53 +0000

by Ponton

kneumann wrote:
Doesn't the Stadium fall into to this category since it is required to only be available to build when one of the building spaces is fully depleted?

Depending on your group and the layout of the buildings, this might be a mid-game building. But you're right. The MS Dagmar also is an end-game special building. The only common thing for all of those buildings is, they don't provide any action.

Oh, and to make this clear: I only posted, what Uwe said. I was completely OK with your building, although, however, I generally don't like buildings that can't be used right away. This said, yes, I don't like Football Stadium and MS Dagmar. Workers' Cottages, on the other hand, add another tactical decision: do I buy it now or do I wait and risk that another player does so?

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

friedricetheman — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:38:56 +0000

by friedricetheman

Ponton wrote:
Uwe asked me to ask YOU if you've got any ideas for new special buildings that might be published in Essen. Please psot your ideas, as soon as possible, and test them, if you can. We will test them as well and maybe some of them will make it to a little expansion deck in Essen. Uwe has already got many new ideas on his own and they are currently tested. So, if you want to see a building of yours, hurry up! :)

What about :

Sea Port
Hammer symbol/Industrial building
Cost : 12F
Entry fee : 1 food
The owner of this building may ship +1 goods when using Shipping Line at the cost of 1F.

(2 power) ==(1x)==> one ship to ship out goods
(6 power) ========> per ship to ship out goods.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

SteveK2 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:34:22 +0000

by SteveK2

For those that would like to add a bit of screwage to the game:

The Bordello:

As your building action, you can move another player's token into the Bordello (entry fee 3F). The other player pays the entry fee. He also pays 1F every turn until he leaves the Bordello. If the other player doesn't have enough money to pay, he must take a loan.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

friedricetheman — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:24:56 +0000

by friedricetheman

Nebenerwerbsbauer wrote:
friedricetheman wrote:

If Uwe's new projects are anything like LH, sign me up!

I don´t know much about his newest projects ,but his next releases (At the Gates of Loyang,Mercator) have not much in common with le havre,beside being great games and some mechanics or details (double sided chits in mercator or harvest in loyang).

They are different ,but they will both be very good games and i think Mercator will top le havre ,because it is such a great/elegant game!

Just read some previews on Mercator and Gates of Loyang.

I think I'm starting to like Loyang. It's shaping up to be another top 10 material. The game mechanics of choosing a partner is something new and if done correctly will add another level of interaction and depth. Imagine doing something on your turn and then your partner finishes the 'combo' on her turn. Nasty..

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kneumann — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:23:19 +0000

by kneumann

Speedracer513 wrote:
Ponton wrote:
kenjy wrote:
Automobile Plant
(Pay energy to turn Steel into francs)

This would be an end building and completely useless at the beginning and in the middle of the game. Therefore NO, sorry.

Actually this is one of my favorite ideas for a special building. Perhaps because I have occasionally got to the 'final turn' with steel, but fell just short (energy-wise) of being able to either ship it or build a steel ship/luxury liner.

Besides, there are at least a few other buildings that are end-game only and virtually useless at the beginning/middle stages -- I don't see this as being any different than some of the other buildings that only get used at the end.

Doesn't the Stadium fall into to this category since it is required to only be available to build when one of the building spaces is fully depleted?

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:21:15 +0000

by Ponton

Of course, you're a little bit right, but there aren't sooo many of them. I can only think of the Workers' Cottages as one. Which others did you have in mind?

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Speedracer513 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:19:14 +0000

by Speedracer513

Ponton wrote:
kenjy wrote:
Automobile Plant
(Pay energy to turn Steel into francs)

This would be an end building and completely useless at the beginning and in the middle of the game. Therefore NO, sorry.

Actually this is one of my favorite ideas for a special building. Perhaps because I have occasionally got to the 'final turn' with steel, but fell just short of being able to either ship it or build a steel ship/luxury liner.

Besides, there are at least a few other buildings that are end-game only and virtually useless at the beginning/middle stages -- I don't see this as being any different than some of the other buildings that only get used at the end.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

battlepuppy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:08:07 +0000

by battlepuppy

Recycling plant: turns 3 standard goods into one basic good (low value goods), and turns 3 upgraded goods into one high value good (eg iron, coal).

You could make this 2:1 if this seems weedy as most special buildings are rather nice.

Andrew

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:05:48 +0000

by Ponton

kenjy wrote:
Allows you to exchange any one type of basic good for one type of any other basic good, up to three units may be exchanged. Or, you may exchange any one type of non-basic good for one type of any other non-basic good at a cost of 1 franc per exchange, for a maximum of two units.

Interesting concept. Uwe will definitely do something like this.

the1jugg wrote:
Soup Kitchen
(Has food production table same as a ship)

This idea is great! Uwe loves it.

Building Permit Office
(Occupy to raise ANY building in one of the 3 building piles to the top of its pile)

Uwe has already something similar.

Automobile Plant
(Pay energy to turn Steel into francs)

This would be an end building and completely useless at the beginning and in the middle of the game. Therefore NO, sorry.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

milhouse46 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:51:45 +0000

by milhouse46

Hum, sounds like a fun exercise! Let's see what I can dig up quick...

-Subprefecture: A building which gives a rebate to purchase a building currently owned by the town

-Real Estate Company: A building which allows you to sell a building for its full value

-Luxury Smokehouse: 1 wood + 1 charcoal + 1 fish --> 3 smoked fishes

-Fishermen tavern: A building that allows to trade 1 Franc(or 1 meat?) for 3 fishes

-Boat Rental: Pick the topmost boat from the lowest quality available. At each interest phase, pay 1 Franc, or return it on its supply stack. It has a value of 0 while it is rented. Limit of 1 rented boat per player.

-Public Market: Exchange one resource for another one of same exact monetary value. Limit of 3 times each turn.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

tonksey — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:27:51 +0000

by tonksey

Bulk Buy Warehouse.

Cost to buy: 8.

Cost to use: 2 food/1 Franc.

The player may buy any number of upgraded goods for the value of the good(s) +1.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

monteslu — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:08:14 +0000

by monteslu

kenjy wrote:
I didn't think there was a place where general exchanges could be made, but I've only played a few times myself, so maybe I missed it. I looked over a player aid that listed the buildings, and didn't see one. I'll have to double-check the actual cards tonight.

Forgot that this was for special buildings only.
Suggested building cost: 8

:thumbsup:

Only have one game in so far, but there were several times that we wanted to trade goods with each other.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

the1jugg — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:53:05 +0000

by the1jugg

I have some rough, untested and uncosted ideas:

Soup Kitchen
(Has food production table same as a ship)

Building Permit Office
(Occupy to raise ANY building in one of the 3 building piles to the top of its pile)

Automobile Plant
(Pay energy to turn Steel into francs)

I love special buildings. And I really would like to see a means of more entering the game.

Jugg

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: mercantile exhange

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:44:07 +0000

by kenjy

I didn't think there was a place where general exchanges could be made, but I've only played a few times myself, so maybe I missed it. I looked over a player aid that listed the buildings, and didn't see one. I'll have to double-check the actual cards tonight.

Forgot that this was for special buildings only.
Suggested building cost: 8

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Mordenthral — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:32:23 +0000

by Mordenthral

kenjy wrote:
Cost: 2 wood/1 clay

I thought there was a building that already allows the exchange of goods.

At any rate, I think you need the cost in Francs, right? Special buildings come out at certain times and can't be built (unless it's like the stadium).

Correct me if I'm wrong. I've only played three times.

=][=

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

kenjy — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:28:45 +0000

by kenjy

I think a building that allowed you to exchange one basic type of good for another would be useful. Maybe it would also allow you to exchange non-basic goods, but you would have to pay a franc to make that exhange.

Mercantile Exchange

Cost: 2 wood/1 clay

Allows you to exchange any one type of basic good for one type of any other basic good, up to three units may be exchanged. Or, you may exchange any one type of non-basic good for one type of any other non-basic good at a cost of 1 franc per exchange, for a maximum of two units.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Mordenthral — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:23:36 +0000

by Mordenthral

Building: Lookout Games HQ

Cost: 30f

Action: 1 wood x1-> 1 copy of Mercator

=][=

Thread: Le Havre:: News:: URGENT: Uwe looks for ideas for new Special Buildings

Ponton — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:52:33 +0000

by Ponton

Uwe asked me to ask YOU if you've got any ideas for new special buildings that might be published in Essen. Please psot your ideas, as soon as possible, and test them, if you can. We will test them as well and maybe some of them will make it to a little expansion deck in Essen. Uwe has already got many new ideas on his own and they are currently tested. So, if you want to see a building of yours, hurry up!

New Image for Le Havre

monteslu — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:35:05 +0000

by monteslu

Another storage solution: Plano 3650. Fits everything and fits back ...

]]>

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Jar file for computer version?

Ponton — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:41:08 +0000

by Ponton

Here on the geek in the files section. I happen to know the programmer. :D

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/42763

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Jar file for computer version?

megasycophant — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:04:15 +0000

by megasycophant

Where is there a java (jar) version of Le Havre available?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Jar file for computer version?

Ponton — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:31:42 +0000

by Ponton

If you've already got a working JRE (you need version 1.6!!!), just double-click the JAR file to start the game. If your OS doesn't support opening files by double-click or at least doesn't run a JAR file this way, you can always start the game in the terminal window by the command "java -jar JLeHavre.jar".

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Jar file for computer version?

Tatsu — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:37:32 +0000

by Tatsu

Dave, you need a JRE (Java Runtime Environment):

https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_De...

Pick your OS and language...

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Jar file for computer version?

sao123 — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:55:14 +0000

by sao123

jar files usually must be embedded into a web page which is then opened by a browser.

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Jar file for computer version?

asd123321 — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:17:12 +0000

by asd123321

Where is the exact link to get what is needed to run a jar executable? Knowing that it is some kind of Java is not enough.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

Nebenerwerbsbauer — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:30:21 +0000

by Nebenerwerbsbauer

UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
The dude sure seems fixated on farming and harvesting. :)

and making great games ..... :p

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

Ambrose — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:49:49 +0000

by Ambrose

Ponton wrote:
Hey, the next two games after Loyang, i. e. Mercator and Ora et Labora, won't contain any harvesting!!! :D

Can't wait! Can't wait!! Can't wait!!!

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

Ponton — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:46:33 +0000

by Ponton

Hey, the next two games after Loyang, i. e. Mercator and Ora et Labora, won't contain any harvesting!!! :D

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

UnknownParkerBrother — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:43:11 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

The dude sure seems fixated on farming and harvesting. :)

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

Nebenerwerbsbauer — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:00:41 +0000

by Nebenerwerbsbauer

friedricetheman wrote:

If Uwe's new projects are anything like LH, sign me up!

I don´t know much about his newest projects ,but his next releases (At the Gates of Loyang,Mercator) have not much in common with le havre,beside being great games and some mechanics or details (double sided chits in mercator or harvest in loyang).

They are different ,but they will both be very good games and i think Mercator will top le havre ,because it is such a great/elegant game!

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Opening Moves

Pyjam — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:41:42 +0000

by Pyjam

After 50 plays, I identified 3 efficient openings and 2 strategies (at least in 3p games) :

The Marketplace Opening
1) Take woods and buy the Building Firm (B1)
2) Build the Marketplace
3) Alternate the use of Marketplace and Sawmill and build buildings with a house symbol.
4) Accumulate Grain, Cows, Iron, Coal.
Then: the Builder strategy is the usual continuation.

The Builder Strategy
Continue to use the Marketplace to get 7 or 8 ressources each time. You will have difficulties to obtain wooden ships (and foods) and therefore to made big shipments in the late game. Accept a couple of loans. Slaughter the cows when it become necessary. Save your iron for ships (not building, and certainly not wharves) or you will never succeed to get any of them.
This is a difficult strategy because if you can’t have ships, you will finish with tons of useless ressources. You really need to have iron and coal when the Steel Mill become available. At a time, build iron and steel ships even the worse ones, and start to export early.
Another possibility is to ignore the ships. Eat your breads and cows. Continue to build buildings and Luxury Lines.

The Sawmill+Fishery Opening (my favorite one)
1) Take 2 clays.
2) Take 1 iron (you may use the Marketplace and take 1 iron + 1 wood in order to block the Marketplace opening).
3) Build the Sawmill (using B1 or B2)
4) Build the Fishery (using the Sawmill, sell it if necessary). Sometimes you can also build both buildings in one move, especially if you used the Marketplace to get the iron.
5) Sell the Sawmill and the Fishery and buy a ship. If you’re player 2, you may have the time to use the Fishery once during turn 2.
Then: the Shipper strategy is the usual continuation.

The Joinery Opening
1) Take 4 woods (3 if the Sawmill is available), and Francs or fishes
2) Build the Joinery.
3) Use the Joinery, sell it (or keep it if you can), buy a wooden ship.
Then: the Shipper strategy is the usual continuation.

The Shipper Strategy
Continue to buy or build ships (4-6 ships). Build some strategic buildings. Accumulate grain, cows, and iron. Convert 20 grains to 20 breads with a coke. Export massively breads and cows. Buy buildings in order to devaluate the Bank and City Hall.

The Construction Firm Opening
i) Take money at 3f.
ii) Buy the Construction Firm (which gives you a hammer symbol).
iii) Build as often as possible using the Construction Firm forcing other players to use single build actions.

IMHO, this opening is quite inefficient. You will not gain a lot with the entry fees during the game. With 8 F, you may buy half a wooden ship with which you save much more food/Francs.

An early grain is great!
However, 3+ francs, 3+ wood and 2+ clay will
always be my first choices over 1 grain.

Absolutely. If you have no intention to visit the Marketplace, there’s nothing wrong to take only one grain because either you take one grain and wait 5 turns or wait 5 turns and take 6 grains but in both cases you finish with 6 grains (because of harvests). Same thing with a couple of cows. Never forget that a grain is worth 3,5 F so a modest pile of 3 grains is worth 10,5 F !

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Where to find all the rules changes?

MataDorPL — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:28:38 +0000

by MataDorPL

Thanks a lot for help :)

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Where to find all the rules changes?

Ponton — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:41:58 +0000

by Ponton

I don't remember where all of this stuff is located, but I can tell you the changes:

COAL TRADER 018: Food->Coal now limited to 5x

MARKETPLACE (only in solo game!): limited to 4 goods (so, max. 2 craft symbols do count)

These were the only rules changes. Also, there were some errors in the English version like some bonus buildings (Town Hall, Bank, Dock) showing the German word "wert". Some special buildings, especially the Essen ones might have German text on them (at least I've got the pdfs from Klemens and they were erroneous).

The overview card for 2 players was missing a building symbol (compare to the German version here).
One round card (R12) was missing a building symbol for the 3-player game (compare to the German version here).

I think, this is it.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Dive Bar

friedricetheman — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:28:51 +0000

by friedricetheman

Ponton wrote:
jonpfl wrote:
Sorry, but I don't see the use of this card.

Why would anyone buy/build it?

Thx
jonpfl

Firstly, it's a special building and, thus, cannot be built.
Secondly, you should by it to only pay 1 franc if you're sent home.
And you might very probably be sent home as there are some buildings that allow it and also, sales and purchases of the building you're in are considered sending home. The text on the Dive Bar affects all players regardless of ownership.

Or you could always use it with the Arts Center (eg. I think I'll use my Arts Center and get 16 francs since all your workers are in the dive bar).

My two cents..

Thread: Le Havre:: Rules:: Where to find all the rules changes?

MataDorPL — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:23:05 +0000

by MataDorPL

I've noticed that there are some official rules changes, like Coal Trader, Marketplace.

Anyone knows where I can find a statement with all those changes so I can play properly?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

Alan Stern — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:01:52 +0000

by Alan Stern

m_r_tyler wrote:
Maybe one of these threads will have what you are looking for:

Perfect size container
My storage solution
Great containers for neater play.
Dritz Storage Solution

The Dritz containers work very well. I bought 1 or 2 packages of each size (3 sizes that come 12, 8 and 6 containers per package for the small, medium and large sizes, respectively) to see how they would work. I think it cost $5-7 per package. Ended up using around 4-6 of the large and 4-8 of the medium. The small ones were too small for anything.

Found them in the sewing section at the local Michael's craft store. You really do need some of the large size containers. There are too many cattle and grain to easily fit in the medium size.

Setup is incredibly easier now. I open the box and start putting the containers on their respective spaces on the board. I even put some of the other pieces in containers just to make it easy: the 7 turn markers and the start player marker, the ship food markers, and all of the player pieces (the wood).

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

MisterBond — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:11:27 +0000

by MisterBond

verandi wrote:
JohnRayJr wrote:
I think in 99% of cases we're talking about the Black Market and the Claymound as the middle buys. Right?

I've on several occasion seen late game buildings get bought in the middle of someone's double build. There are several reasons to do this: perhaps a player wanted a certain building (e.g. a scoring one) and only had a certain amount of brick (and no intentions of getting more). Also preventing other players from building is a huge incentive to buy if you have the money. I've certainly seen this tactic more than once.

I'd buy the Shipping building or the Wharf between 2 other decent buildings. Perhaps I'd sell the first building to buy the second.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

Elgar — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:20:33 +0000

by Elgar

My fix for the tannery would have it be unlimited, yet require energy to convert. Hides +1/2 energy -Unlimited-> leather +Fr.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

Pyjam — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:48:32 +0000

by Pyjam

There are many other ways to acquire hides (think only of Marketplace, for example), so you need not necessarily have 16 cows. Anyway, why not slaughter 16 cows to have 48 food? You'll need an overall 100+ food in a 3p game IIRC, so this would be halfway through. Also, there are some special buildings that use meat to convert into money (like Steakhouse or whatever) - and using special buildings is much more efficient than shipping in most cases.

Also, to ship twice early you need twice as much energy early. Either you neglect building or whatever or you won't have that much early. It's kinda narrow-minded to just calculate the base costs and say 16 cows would be 48 francs as opposed to 8 leather that are 32 francs (which they, in fact, aren't - 8 leather = 40 francs as you get 1 franc for conversion!).

I find the special buildings generally inefficient because there are too limited. They require too many actions. I prefer shipments. I like to have a lot of ships and when I have them I don’t need food except for the entry fees. Note that I did not write that 48 F is better than 40 F + 48 foods but that 48 F + 2 actions is better when I have a lot of ships and the food is useless. If I fail to get the valuable steel ships, I may always slaughter the cows if necessary.

I guess I should have mentioned the steakhouse was the second special building built. It helped a lot. I owned the market, and my opponents kept neglecting the cows and I kept snapping them up. When I put out the steakhouse they were a little disapointed. :)

Yes, If you have the Market, it’s a different game. With it, it’s easy to get tons of varied ressources but difficult to get enough woods to build a wooden ships or enough money to buy it (although you succeeded to achieve this objective, maybe because your opponents had some bad choices). In this case, it’s better to eat the cows and with the steakhouse available it will be certainly my choice.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

dk1510 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:18:18 +0000

by dk1510

you can buy groceries at the grocery store with money, but you can't go to the bank and try to put smoked fish into your checking account.

In this game, cash is king!

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

Ponton — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:54:36 +0000

by Ponton

I haven't read this thread earlier, but I see you've already find the passage in the rules that explicitely allows you to build, buy*, and then build for the second time using the CF.

PS: The "*" above is meant informatically: buy one or more times if you like or don't.

Edit: Going even further, you can: build a building, immediately sell it to have the money to buy the next one from a stack and then finally build for the second time!

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

aaxiom — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:41:24 +0000

by aaxiom

QBert80 wrote:
Fortunately someone already thought of this scenario.

From the "Buildings Overview" that comes with the game:

Construction Firm
...A player may even use the Construction Firm to build one building, then use an additional action to buy the next building, and then build the third in the pile with the Construction Firm.

Good catch. Thankfully they've been thorough with their rule set.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

QBert80 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:17:49 +0000

by QBert80

Fortunately someone already thought of this scenario.

From the "Buildings Overview" that comes with the game:

Construction Firm
...A player may even use the Construction Firm to build one building, then use an additional action to buy the next building, and then build the third in the pile with the Construction Firm.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

Markinho — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 07:28:41 +0000

by Markinho

We play it right the way "buy at any time". So yes. it can be played like this at its sometimes a good move. but we always let the action end.´, before buying. :cool::cool:

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Hits Top 10!

friedricetheman — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:55:23 +0000

by friedricetheman

All I can say is... about time! I love Le Havre. It absolutely grows on you.

Unfortunately, the same can't be said of Agricola. The plays in the game feel forced sometimes. And the penalty for not enough food is too harsh.

In LH, players are less pressured to feed their workers and the penalties for not feeding enough is less restrictive. Also, I love the multiple paths to victory in LH.

If Uwe's new projects are anything like LH, sign me up!

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: 018 Coal Trader fixed

friedricetheman — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:42:43 +0000

by friedricetheman

pabula wrote:
Why not change Cokery?
My opinion this building is broken...

Yes, while you are at it. Change the Tannery, it too is broken. :p

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

verandi — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:14:59 +0000

by verandi

JohnRayJr wrote:
I think in 99% of cases we're talking about the Black Market and the Claymound as the middle buys. Right?

I've on several occasion seen late game buildings get bought in the middle of someone's double build. There are several reasons to do this: perhaps a player wanted a certain building (e.g. a scoring one) and only had a certain amount of brick (and no intentions of getting more). Also preventing other players from building is a huge incentive to buy if you have the money. I've certainly seen this tactic more than once.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

ropearoni4 — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:44:09 +0000

by ropearoni4

You just can't sell it out from under the current player while they are using it, is the idea behind it. taking an action=using it It can not be used to stop someone from using the building if they have decised to. If you know they are going to use it on their turn, you could sell it before they hop onto it.

The OP? we do buy anytime during your turn, before or after an action, or during an action if the case allows.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

UnknownParkerBrother — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:27:48 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

That selling rule is an equally odd duck. Selling "may even be taken during another player’s turn, but not while she is taking an action."

That leaves you with fractional timing issues. Filling the offer spaces is a player action. When does this action start so as to prevent the other person from cutting in? At what point does it end, allowing selling again? When does their main action begin, when they think of what they're going to do, when their hand starts to move, do they declare it out loud?

Yeah, it rarely matters, but allowing one player to do things on another player's turn is just messy.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

aaxiom — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:12:30 +0000

by aaxiom

JohnRayJr wrote:
I think in 99% of cases we're talking about the Black Market and the Claymound as the middle buys. Right?

This is the assumption I would make also... and one which strongly supports the view that buying during one's turn is really done at any time during that turn -- as per the stated rules.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

JohnRayJr — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:10:26 +0000

by JohnRayJr

I think in 99% of cases we're talking about the Black Market and the Claymound as the middle buys. Right?

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

aaxiom — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:08:59 +0000

by aaxiom

You can SELL a building during another person's turn, but the stipulation is that it cannot be in the midst of the action that another person is taking.

No such stipulation is made when buying... and if this were an issue, I'm of the opinion it would have been made very clear, judging from the remainder of the rule set.

Again, an opinion, one among many.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

UnknownParkerBrother — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:03:59 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Wow, never even thought of this one. Yes, it says any time, but in the middle of an action just seems wrong.

I guess it'd be allowed, officially.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

mjacobsca — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:57:31 +0000

by mjacobsca

The rules seem pretty clear on this. From page 5 of the English rules: "In addition to the Supply and Main actions, a player can buy one or more Building and/or Ship cards at any time during his own turn." (the bold writing is used in the rulebook as well) You can build, buy, and build back to back to back. You'll have to do better than this to get Uwe to answer!

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

aaxiom — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:42:28 +0000

by aaxiom

You can buy one or more buildings at any time during your turn.

See Page 5 of rulebook (which you have done). "At any time" really means what it says.

Hope this helps.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

JohnRayJr — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:30:46 +0000

by JohnRayJr

I'm curious to hear as well. Ponton might know.

We allow buys "in the middle" and there haven't been any arguments about this (yet).

Thread: Le Havre:: Rules:: Subtle question maybe only Uwe can answer...

Dennisdore — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:26:42 +0000

by Dennisdore

This seems to be clearly a rules interpretation as it's not explicitly answered by the rules. My group is split 50-50 on the answer. The rules allow me to build two buildings from the same pile... one after the other if I put my worker on the construction firm that enables me to build two buildings. The rules also state that I can buy a building at any time. Here's my question: When on the 2-build construction firm can I from one pile only build the top building, buy the next building, then build the building under that effectively splitting up the two builds with a buy in between? To me it seems like a bending of the rules. If it's come up, how have the rest of you resolved this question? And Uwe... what's your final answer?

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Ships that were not bought or built at the end of the round.

weishaupt — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:08:40 +0000

by weishaupt

mojo shivers wrote:
That's why the varying value of all the ships in the game. It's usually better point-wise to wait for ships, except the luxury liner, which actually decreases in value from one to the next.

But if you wait too long, food gets harder and harder to get by...
AAARGHH!!

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Ships that were not bought or built at the end of the round.

mojo shivers — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:16:08 +0000

by mojo shivers

That's why the varying value of all the ships in the game. It's usually better point-wise to wait for ships, except the luxury liner, which actually decreases in value from one to the next.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Computer Game

Ponton — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:24:48 +0000

by Ponton

I might add some additional code and send you the new MainWindow class file. I'll do this tomorrow.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Computer Game

shrek — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:48:10 +0000

by shrek

Nope no error messages.
If there is an option to increase log level / tracing of what is happening in the program I'm more than happy to try it out.

Also I'd be willing to help you debug provided I had the source. It'd cool to get this fixed, as I read others suffer from the same problem.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: 2p first play... good close game! Part review/part session

lorddillon — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:34:59 +0000

by lorddillon

Great review/session! I also keep my eyes open for 2 player games that my girlfriend will enjoy because most of our gaming sessions are just the two of us. Agricola is our favorite right now, but we do have Le Havre and enjoy it as well.

---

Most things are better to build than buy because the VP value of items is always less than the cost of purchase - which means if you buy something in your last two turns, you probably won't make up the difference in value - since your money is converted into VP at the end of the game for the purposes of scoring, it would maybe be foolish to purchase something for 30 francs when it's only worth 20 VP. Unless you REALLY needed to use that building, you might as well not pay money for it.

Now, having said that, I don't mean to say that one should NEVER purchase rather than build - it really depends upon the situation you are in. For example, if you need a building that is currently covered by a different one that yo don't care about, you might not have enough materials to build both, so you may choose to buy the top one and build the one you really want - that saves you the cost of wasting your precious resources.

Also, I can imagine someone coming up with a strategy where they bought rather than built most things - I just think it would be hard to do.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Ships that were not bought or built at the end of the round.

weishaupt — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:02:19 +0000

by weishaupt

The new ship goes on top of the older ship, and only the top ship of any pile can be built.

Thread: Le Havre:: Rules:: Ships that were not bought or built at the end of the round.

braino — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:50:32 +0000

by braino

Say there already a wooden ship available for building/building at the end of the round. Another wooden ship is now available.

a. Does this ship go on top of the other (meaning that the higher value ship can be built first)
b. Does this ship go on the bottom of the other (meaning the lower value ship can be built first)
c. The order doesn't matter, any ship can be built from the available ships
d. The ship is discarded.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: 2p first play... good close game! Part review/part session

WelshGandalf — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:25:57 +0000

by WelshGandalf

Sorry I didn't make it so clear... the only thing that either of us bought instead of building was that one steel ship I bought. When I talked about going on a buying spree, it was because we both had lots of spare money as the game went on so I thought it made sense to buy things from the town (not the "not yet built" piles)... as you don't lose out on any points, can gain on entry fees, can sell them back to the town if needed (as I did with the shipping lane near the end, to get on it again) and also can be worth bonus points (eg bank). Was this correct logic? :)

Thanks for the opinion about it being better to purchase instead of buy steel ships... will consider that in future games!

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Computer Game

Ponton — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:14:33 +0000

by Ponton

Are there any error messages in the terminal window? It seems you had no problems to log in and display the Lobby, only the Main Window crashes. Without any error messages, I'm afraid I won't be able to help.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: 2p first play... good close game! Part review/part session

Ponton — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:12:22 +0000

by Ponton

Building costs resources and precious actions, buying costs just the francs (which you don't lose, usually). I always buy Steel Ships instead of building them. Way more efficient. Of course, buying everything is complete nonsense. I didn't understand he has bought most of the buildings and ships, just the Steel Ship and some special buildings, I guess.

Reply: Le Havre:: News:: Re: Le Havre Computer Game

shrek — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:33:52 +0000

by shrek

I tried getting this to run but I can't seem to make it work :(

After I hit the start game button I see the chat window mentioning 'We will play the Short Game.' and no other window popsup :(

I'm running with java -jar LeHavre.jar
It fails both on Linux and Mac OS X on the same place. Both run Java 1.6.x, I also tried briefly in a Windows XP with the same result.

Is there anything I can turn on to increase logging to help you figure out the problem?

Thanks, I was really anxious about this one.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

BerZerg — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:32:33 +0000

by BerZerg

Pyjam wrote:
The tannery should be unlimited.

I agree. Or limited to 8, for example. Our gaming group finds the Tannery not worth its while, even if you dedicatedly pursue a hides strategy.

Why this building has been limited to 4 I can only guess at. Perhaps over-nerfed during testing?

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: 2p first play... good close game! Part review/part session

maaikefest — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:07:07 +0000

by maaikefest

Did I understand it right that you bought most of the buildings and ships instead of building them? Building is much cheaper and profitable :).

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: 2p first play... good close game! Part review/part session

Ponton — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:43:16 +0000

by Ponton

Very nice session report, especially as it is the first one for the computer game. ;)
Your scores are good to very good for a 2p full game. High would be around 300.
Le Havre gets better the more you play it. It's definitely worth the purchase! :)

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

docreason — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:06:31 +0000

by docreason

BosonMichael wrote:
I got a plastic storage container from Hobby Lobby that has 20 sections. It even fits in the box along with the boards and rules and cards. Better yet, it's only a few dollars. Should be easy to find.

The storage tray can't fit on the board... but with the tray, why would you need to take the counters out and put them on the board until the counters go on the offer spaces?

Reason for having them on the board, is so that if players need to reach for goods, they can in a hurry.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

aaxiom — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:05:42 +0000

by aaxiom

thedewan wrote:
So if I enter a building that my opponent controls that has an entry fee of 2food with no option to give franc(s), and I give him/her 2 francs instead of the food, he/she gets to keep and use those francs as francs?

Yes. That is correct. Again, they want food, but you don't have any... so you give them money to get the food they want. Food, on the other hand, can't be used as money.

For some reason there are a lot of questions about this issue... I wonder if this got somewhat confusing due to the translation of the rules. No time at present to look into this though. Just wondering. I'm asked this a lot OTB.

Session: Le Havre:: 2p first play... good close game! Part review/part session

WelshGandalf — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:32:20 +0000

by WelshGandalf

** My first post so be nice! **

I've often browsed the Geek for new games to buy and was quite interested about this game called Le Harve. My wife and I own Agricola and Caylus and quite enjoy them, so I thought this would be a good game too as it has many similar concepts, but enough differences to make it a completely different game. Also in its favour is that it's apparently a good 2 player game (which we don't have many of). It is very important to me that my wife enjoys a game, otherwise there is not much point in purchasing it as the vast majority of my gaming sessions include her. Therefore I was glad to see that someone had created a free computer version, called JHavre.

Although I'd already read the rules, I played the game through once solo first, to get a hang of how it all fitted together and how the interface worked. I scored 155 points, but as I say I was not concentrating too much, but I had some idea of the "flow" of the game from this.

So it came time to play the game with my wife. I explained the rules and she seemed to mostly understand them - as I say, many concepts in Le Havre are present also in Agricola or Caylus, which we have played many times. It was a bit difficult to grasp why you would buy buildings though. An explanation of the interface too and we were off!

We started the game following Agricola-like tendencies... if you see a big pile of stuff then pick it up. We also endeavoured to get 1 wheat/2 cattle up early on, and bought some early buildings that looked interesting. When the wharf came along, we bought a few ships to ease the increasing food requirements. The farm (special building) came out early on too, bringing many extra resources into the game. It seemed to be going alright for us both.

As we moved into the middle game, we both, to some degree, struggled over what our paths to many VP would be. My wife was looking at getting steel ships but wasn't sure if she could get there or not - once I pointed out that at the very least she could ship steel for a lot of money, she was reassured and started going for it. A key point came as I peeked at the special buildings with the marketplace, and saw that the steakhouse was coming (1 charcoal & 1 meat = 6 francs, up to 4 times). I had about 10 cattle at this point and decided to save up even more before I went to the abattoir, with the aim of using the steakhouse. My wife had very few cattle and was eating through her supplies of meat, so I did not think the building would be so advantageous for her.

Eventually the steakhouse came out and I got up to 17 cattle before slaughtering 14 of them. Wood seemed unimportant later in the game so I managed to pick up 15 wood from the offer space too, which I then turned into charcoal... thanks to this I used the steakhouse twice, netting me a cool 48 francs

However my wife moved slightly ahead of me in the race for steel, so as we moved into the last 10 turns I followed her around on the colliery, iron works, steel works and wharf. As we came into the last round, we had both planned out our moves... we would both be shipping twice (I also had already shipped once earlier in the game), I would be buying an extra ship and some useful things to ship too (some leather from my 10 hides perhaps), and my wife would get some bricks to build the bank.

This is where things started to go a bit wrong! I did not quite have enough energy to go shipping twice, so I had to get the extra energy by picking up the 18 wood on the offer space, so I was unable to go to the tannery for extra points. Over the course of my three shipping adventures, I sent off 11 bread, 1 coke, 3 steel, 7 cattle and 7 hides for a total of 97 francs, and had 2 wooden ships, 1 iron ship, 1 steel ship and 1 luxury liner (although I did purchase the steel ship rather than build it).

However this was nothing compared to the problems my wife suffered, as her plans were scuppered when we realised energy was required to change clay into brick! With only 1 coke to use for energy we had to decide if it was better to get the town hall or to ship. We decided it was probably better to get the town hall, so that's what she did. As a result, on her last turn all she could do was pick up 3 francs to boost her score. This was really quite sad as she had a great few last turns lined up but they were scuppered by a mis-calculation (if we had noticed this only 2 turns earlier, it would all have been OK). My wife this only managed one shipping trip, though it was a good one as she sent off 3 cattle, 5 steel 4 leather for a total of 65 francs. Her fleet consisted of 1 wooden ship, 2 iron ships and 1 steel ship, all of which she had built.

I thought my wife's poor ending would hand me a good-sized victory but it did not - the game in fact ended incredibly close as I scored 263 (101|70|92+0|0) to my wife's 261! (81|46|118+16|0) She scored 42 more building points than me which nearly got her the win.

Our first impressions....
- it will be a lot easier with a whole board & cards set out easy to read - we took 3 hours to play mainly because of the interface! (Not that I think the interface in JHarve could be any better than it is)
- my wife in particular was struck down with AP at times (something she is not particularly prone to) but we feel this will decrease with time as we become more familiar with the buildings and strategies.
- although I won with 3 shipping trips, my wife nearly won with 1 shipping trip. I do not feel you need to ship lots to win, but that you still need some ships to offset food requirements, and that it would be tough to win without using the shipping line at least once.
- we spent a lot of the early part of the game sorting out our food but near the end we hardly needed any due to all the ships we had built. We thus nearly ended up with huge piles of food each but we managed to ship them and/or use them for payment for buildings.
- we feel there's more to this game than we have come across so far. For example, the loan strategy is one I will be trying out at some point, or concentrating specifically on one aspect, rather than the "all-round" strategy we went for.
- compared to our favourite 2p game, Agricola, we don't think this is as good, but that it is still a good game and will be a nice change from playing too much Agricola!
- It will be nice to have another good 3p game too... when there are 3 of us we tend to play settlers, TTR:E or Agricola... I'm a bit tired of the first two at the moment and we maybe play Agricola too much!

Overall we did enjoy this game and I will be going out to buy it for real sometime in the next couple of weeks

Finally, judging from what other people say, it seems our scores were quite high! Any idea why this was? Were we being too friendly? Did the special buildings assist our scores? Or are we just naturally talented people?!

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

UnknownParkerBrother — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:07:53 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Of course. Money is money.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

thedewan — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:55:53 +0000

by thedewan

So if I enter a building that my opponent controls that has an entry fee of 2food with no option to give franc(s), and I give him/her 2 francs instead of the food, he/she gets to keep and use those francs as francs?

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

aaxiom — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:28:07 +0000

by aaxiom

Someone -- can't remember who -- put this best by expressing the food / money issue in this manner (and I paraphrase):

I can walk around with francs in my pocket, and if someone needs bread, I can give them the francs with which to buy that bread.

However, I never find myself walking around with loaves of bread and expect to use them in the same manner as francs.

When you enter a building that requires food, you can give them anything that represents food -- a fish (or two), a loaf of bread, meat, etc. Naturally, you want to be as efficient as possible, as "change" is never given where food is concerned.

Hope this helps.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

erinwolth — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:22:23 +0000

by erinwolth

thedewan wrote:
Is a space 'empty' when it has no goods, or no player tokens, or no goods AND no player tokens?

As Mark said, you don't place player tokens on offer spaces to take those goods. You just take them, and that's your whole action. It's important to get this right, since when you use your action to take an offer, your worker will continue to occupy (and therefore block other players from) the last building action you took.

thedewan wrote:
The rules say that you can change money to food at any time, but the games does not appear to have token to represent a generic unit of food.

A fine point, but also important: you can never change money to food, you can simply substitute money for food.

Hope that's clear.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

mopeymatt — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:30:23 +0000

by mopeymatt

Pyjam wrote:
When I have 3 ships early, I prefer 48 F and 2 actions over 40 F and 48 foods, except if there is another building to convert this pile of useless food to Francs.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: black market and money to food questions

Beyak — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:19:11 +0000

by Beyak

thedewan wrote:
What is the definition of 'empty' in the rules for the card Black Market?
Is a space 'empty' when it has no goods, or no player tokens, or no goods AND no player tokens?

Also, when you change money to food in order to pay another player to enter one of his buildings what kind of token do you use represent the food that the owner of the building gets?

The rules say that you can change money to food at any time, but the games does not appear to have token to represent a generic unit of food.

The rules are only referring to the offer spaces. There should never be a player token in an offer space. It just doesn't happen.

You don't convert money to food, you replace the payment of food with money.

Thread: Le Havre:: Rules:: black market and money to food questions

thedewan — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:14:06 +0000

by thedewan

What is the definition of 'empty' in the rules for the card Black Market?
Is a space 'empty' when it has no goods, or no player tokens, or no goods AND no player tokens?

Also, when you change money to food in order to pay another player to enter one of his buildings what kind of token do you use represent the food that the owner of the building gets?

The rules say that you can change money to food at any time, but the games does not appear to have token to represent a generic unit of food.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

Ponton — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:40:11 +0000

by Ponton

There are many other ways to acquire hides (think only of Marketplace, for example), so you need not necessarily have 16 cows. Anyway, why not slaughter 16 cows to have 48 food? You'll need an overall 100+ food in a 3p game IIRC, so this would be halfway through. Also, there are some special buildings that use meat to convert into money (like Steakhouse or whatever) - and using special buildings is much more efficient than shipping in most cases.

Also, to ship twice early you need twice as much energy early. Either you neglect building or whatever or you won't have that much early. It's kinda narrow-minded to just calculate the base costs and say 16 cows would be 48 francs as opposed to 8 leather that are 32 francs (which they, in fact, aren't - 8 leather = 40 francs as you get 1 franc for conversion!).

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

Pyjam — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:43:40 +0000

by Pyjam

You used it a few times and made a really early shipment. If you had 8 leathers, you needed 3 ships and 16 cows. If you had them, you could ship 16 cows (48 F) for 2 actions instead of 8 leathers (32 + 8 = 40 F) for 4 actions (slaughterhouse, 2x tannery, shipping). When I have 3 ships early, I prefer 48 F and 2 actions over 40 F and 48 foods, except if there is another building to convert this pile of useless food to Francs.

265 is a good score for a 3p game but I assure you that you can do it (and over) without the tannery.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

mopeymatt — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:55:13 +0000

by mopeymatt

I used it last night to great effect. It came out early, and used it right away a few times and then made a really early shipment. I was able to buy many key buildings and ended up winning by over 80 points: 265-180-181. Both my opponents were great gamers and have played le havre more than me.

The way the buildings came out, there wasn't really any other good way to make money early in the game, and I think this happens quite a bit. Early money=control=victory, or at least it did last night. :D

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: A bit curious after an initial play...

verandi — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:08:47 +0000

by verandi

Le Havre is pretty open ended and there are various strategies you can pursue. Generally speaking the big points are in building, shipping, and using special buildings. Any one or several of these three areas can be tailored into a game-winning strategy.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: A bit curious after an initial play...

JohnRayJr — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:06:10 +0000

by JohnRayJr

To echo UnknownParkerBrother, I'm sure it was the specifics of each strategy that produced your outcome, not the overall building-Vs-shipping choices. Le Havre is largely about chaining together good plans and correctly assessing their flexibility when certain opportunities arise. Some decisions will commit you more toward building or more toward shipping, but usually it's not that cut-and-dry.

Love the game.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: A bit curious after an initial play...

UnknownParkerBrother — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:29:33 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Heh. You'll have many here who argue the shipping strategy is the only way to go, and it's too powerful.

Whoever plays best wins. :)

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: A bit curious after an initial play...

DavidT — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:27:06 +0000

by DavidT

So, my wife and I are huge fans of Agricola and were very excited to receive our copy of Le Havre last week. Without much delay, we got it out on the table and tried out a 2-player, short version to get a feel for how the game works.

We didn't really look very far ahead for our strategies and just did what felt right at the time, figuring that the game would make a lot more sense and a structure would emerge after completion. The resulting scores have me curious, though.

Essentially, I spent the entire game buying a *ton* of buildings. As a result, the end game kind of crept up on me and I didn't have the number of turns necessary to get my "shipping" game going. I only had two wooden ships and never shipped a single thing.

Conversely, my wife began planning for a 'points-via-shipping' strategy early on and successfully completed two lucrative deliveries before game end. It seems to me that building up to this type of successful shipping is the intended focus of the game (is this correct?).

However, what has me curious is that I still beat her handily by virtue of the value of my accumulated buildings alone. She only had 2-3 buildings at the end, and I had many, many more (all but one of which I'd built from scratch, so were pure income). Based on this, it makes me wonder what value the shipping strategy would have, if it can be beaten by a very straightforward 'build' strategy.

My guess is that this is a result of playing the "short" version and being inexperienced with the game. Any thoughts?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Le Havre Multiplayer - Online!

Ultimaran — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:08:24 +0000

by Ultimaran

BGGLeHavre1
lehavre password

we need to ahve a few more do the same so many of us can try and get on if BGGLeHavre or BGGLeHavre1 is full always use lehavre as password. make a better way for all of us to find each other

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

BosonMichael — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:55:37 +0000

by BosonMichael

I got a plastic storage container from Hobby Lobby that has 20 sections. It even fits in the box along with the boards and rules and cards. Better yet, it's only a few dollars. Should be easy to find.

The storage tray can't fit on the board... but with the tray, why would you need to take the counters out and put them on the board until the counters go on the offer spaces?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

docreason — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:30:37 +0000

by docreason

Hitting the wall with ideas local, and not having luck, I went to Michael's. They have these tins that run like $1 a piece. They have a thin plastic cover and are made of I believe a tin. For $9+tax I was able to get enough. They are a bit tall, but seem to do the job. Need to try them in game.

Ok, I have one here, it is made by Western Crafts:
WT13050 Small Tin w/Acetate Lid Silver

That is what it says on the bottom. If anyone wants to google this, please do so. It looks like it will work, but might be a bit cumbersome to get the pieces.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Joinery

Ponton — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:22:38 +0000

by Ponton

Excalabur wrote:
Ponton wrote:
dk1510 wrote:
But if you leave the building and then return, you can again sell 1/2/3 wood for 5/6/7 F. As many times per game as you enter the building.

This is the case for all buildings. Whenever you enter a building, you perform its actions up to the stated maximum amount. The Joinery can be used once per visit.

It's helpful that you read the question before giving an answer off the cuff. And the correct answers that had already been given.

I've absolutely no idea where you've got a problem with my response. Maybe it would be a clever idea to read the entire thread, especially reading the questions asked in-between and have an eye on the date the questions and answers were posted...

:what:

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Joinery

Excalabur — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:19:35 +0000

by Excalabur

Ponton wrote:
dk1510 wrote:
But if you leave the building and then return, you can again sell 1/2/3 wood for 5/6/7 F. As many times per game as you enter the building.

This is the case for all buildings. Whenever you enter a building, you perform its actions up to the stated maximum amount. The Joinery can be used once per visit.

It's helpful that you read the question before giving an answer off the cuff. And the correct answers that had already been given.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Joinery

Ponton — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:11:14 +0000

by Ponton

dk1510 wrote:
But if you leave the building and then return, you can again sell 1/2/3 wood for 5/6/7 F. As many times per game as you enter the building.

This is the case for all buildings. Whenever you enter a building, you perform its actions up to the stated maximum amount. The Joinery can be used once per visit.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

Ponton — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:09:16 +0000

by Ponton

dk1510 wrote:
Perhaps the number on the right is the starting player in the CURRENT round?

This is it! The current round card shows the start player of the current round.

The numbers I've marked with red arrows are the sort numbers for the rounds (i. e. the round numbers).

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

UnknownParkerBrother — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:26:15 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Yup, the key thing is *always* arrange the round cards by the brown numbers for the proper number of players (only babies play the short game ;) )

And double check them. We screwed up one game by somehow having the round 3 card around round 12 or something. "Hey everybody, much less food required this round!"

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Joinery

dk1510 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:21:05 +0000

by dk1510

But if you leave the building and then return, you can again sell 1/2/3 wood for 5/6/7 F. As many times per game as you enter the building.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

KillMeForPrizes — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:18:22 +0000

by KillMeForPrizes

I keep all the good counters (except francs) in one big bag that I dump into a large shallow bowl that is easy to sift through and find what you need.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Pyjam — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:47:07 +0000

by Pyjam

2p : 1h30 – 1h40.
3p : 2h00 – 2h15.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

dk1510 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:33:12 +0000

by dk1510

thanks. I downloaded the instructions and took another look, and of course it says plainly in the rules that when you flip a card (at the end of a round to present a ship) the number on the right is the starter for the current round.

I don't know why I thought it was otherwise. Thanks all for your insight.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

aaxiom — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:18:32 +0000

by aaxiom

This isn't hard.

1. No player ever "moves" twice in a row.

2. All players play in order -- nobody ever loses a turn.

3. At the end of a round, the player furthest "behind" starts the next round, followed by the player "next behind", etc. The person triggering the end of round goes LAST in the subsequent round.

That's it. Anything you glean from correctly interpreting the round cards will tell you the same thing.

Just exercise common sense, and refrain from pulling ships off the board as that has the potential to confuse the issue.

Hope this helps... this is just my perspective -- one perspective among many.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

dk1510 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:05:28 +0000

by dk1510

Ponton wrote:
It's not in the rules, it's on the round cards! R03 is usually the 3rd card to be played, unless in 3p where it is the first (see 3p row: it shows a (1) and the other rows show (3)). See this image that I've made for you:

]]>

Are you sure this is right? I think the numbers in the circles you indicated are the round order for the cards. The "1" in a dark circle is first round card for the long game and in the lighter circle is the card number for the shorter game. So in your cards shown, the one on the right should be the first round card in both the long and short 3p game. And, as you can see, it has a "1" on the right in both lighter and darker text (which is where I thought it was indicating the starting player for the next round), indicating that player 1 is the first player to go in the next round.

Can someone else provide some clarification please...I'm almost positive this is correct. Perhaps the number on the right is the starting player in the CURRENT round?

EDIT: In rereading your comment, I think we are saying the same thing. However, the question still remains, where do we see in the rules that 3p is the first player to go in the first round. It is seeming more and more to me that the number on the right is who goes first in the CURRENT round...

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

Ponton — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:38:56 +0000

by Ponton

It's not in the rules, it's on the round cards! R03 is usually the 3rd card to be played, unless in 3p where it is the first (see 3p row: it shows a (1) and the other rows show (3)). See this image that I've made for you:

]]>

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

dk1510 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:26:26 +0000

by dk1510

So in a 3p short game p3 goes first? Did I miss that in the rules? It makes more sense than p1 going first twice in the first two rounds...just curious where that rule is.

Is the number on the right of the round cards indicative of the starting player for the current round? That would make sense as well.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

elfrododumbo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 02:19:07 +0000

by elfrododumbo

I played this game for the first time with my nephew and it lasted about two and a half hours. I can only assume that it takes a shorter time once you know the rules ;)

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

voynix — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:48:12 +0000

by voynix

petri dishes

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

indigopotter — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:22:42 +0000

by indigopotter

We use the small round disposable Gladware (they come with lids) - just the right size to get our hands into easily. We keep the bits just above the game board, rather than on it.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

btizo — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:52:42 +0000

by btizo

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/38772

I have a set of the containers he uses and they're wonderful. They fit on the board in their spaces. Makes setup take less than 2 minutes.

EDIT: Someone beat me to the punch!

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

m_r_tyler — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:52:09 +0000

by m_r_tyler

Maybe one of these threads will have what you are looking for:

Perfect size container
My storage solution
Great containers for neater play.
Dritz Storage Solution

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

cferejohn — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:33:17 +0000

by cferejohn

I've seen someone make pretty good use of the little plastic cups with covers they keep by the pickle/pepper bar at Quizno's (you probably see similar things for taking ketchup, relish, etc, from burger places.

I just use a Plano-style box and get them out as needed.

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Storage ideas for goods bits for Le Havre?

docreason — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:25:02 +0000

by docreason

The set up time for Le Havre is a bit annoying. One idea kicked around is to come up with this storage bins that pieces to Le Havre can go in, that would then be put on the board, and save time.

Anyone have any ideas for this? Looking for plastic store bought variety that also double as containers to store the pieces in.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Two player game time

mojo shivers — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:16:08 +0000

by mojo shivers

Sounds about right length-wise.

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Two player game time

Ron Wright — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:03:53 +0000

by Ron Wright

Linda and played last night, and the game lasted about two hours. I lost--perhaps I should have taken more time.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Rastak — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:31:32 +0000

by Rastak

My buddy suffers from AP so it usually takes 2 - 2.5 hours.

It can be played quicker as previously mentioned.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Speedracer513 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:27:03 +0000

by Speedracer513

mulliganm wrote:
My wife and I can typically get in a game in 90 minutes (not including set up/take down), but we're pretty quick I think.

Same here... We usually play through in about 90 min (plus another 5 min each for set-up and take-down).

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

UnknownParkerBrother — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:52:15 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

Tough to say on this one. Our games certainly take a long time, probably 2 hours.

But we don't care, and never notice how long it actually takes, because we're enjoying ourselves so much the entire time.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Will there be a Le Havre expansion at Spiel09?

waddball — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:26:39 +0000

by waddball

itchyrichy wrote:
While I would welcome more Special Buildings in a mini expansion, I wouldn't like to have anyting major done to the base game as it seems do exquisitly balanced.

Wow, I think the game is very open-ended. You could increase or decrease limits and costs (of buildings or resources) all over the place and still have an interesting, balanced game (everything's available to everyone, basically). There are a few "core" elements, sure, but I think 80% of the game could have been released with slightly different costs with no real impact. Let alone the scope for different or replacement core buildings, new resources, etc.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Zedsdead — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:18:15 +0000

by Zedsdead

I played my first 2p game of Le Havre last night (my second game of Le Havre overall). Took about 95 minutes.

Just pay attention and think ahead during the other player's turn and I think it'll move really quickly up until the last three turns or so.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Will there be a Le Havre expansion at Spiel09?

grandslam — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:04:19 +0000

by grandslam

Papa Uwe?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

StocktonDave — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:53:43 +0000

by StocktonDave

That is a good average to use. Our games (2p) run from 1 hr 50 min to 2hr 20m. Depends how much I ruminate over how many ways to screw myself wiht a boneheaded series of moves (of course that's all in hindsight, usually when I ruminating I thinking it's a brillant course of action). :yuk:

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

cferejohn — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:41:52 +0000

by cferejohn

I'm not sure about 2 player, but 3 player is definitely shorter than the advertised 3 hours. The first time I played it (with one other new player and one person who had played twice), it took us just under 3 hours with setup and teaching.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

mulliganm — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:37:07 +0000

by mulliganm

My wife and I can typically get in a game in 90 minutes (not including set up/take down), but we're pretty quick I think.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Dannecus — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:21:54 +0000

by Dannecus

One of the great things about Le Havre is the variety. So I think your game lengths will vary quite a bit depending on how the buildings come out, what your opponent does and what special buildings come out. It's hard to give an average, but it is a 'heavy' game so some commitment of time is going to be necessary.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Suppe Kasper — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:21:24 +0000

by Suppe Kasper

The shortened game doesn't interest me. I want the full experience; hopefully, under and hour or under one and a half hours.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Ponton — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:20:44 +0000

by Ponton

YES, the full game will never take less than 2 hours with 2 players or you must play with the speed of light. A 2p full session with the computer game takes 80 minutes and there is no fiddling with pieces.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Will there be a Le Havre expansion at Spiel09?

Ponton — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:18:56 +0000

by Ponton

There definitely will NOT be any kind of Le Havre expansion. Maybe there will be again some extra special buildings, but I haven't heard of that, yet. Uwe is currently too involved with the Agricola expansion, the Loyang boardgame and other projects. And in a few weeks there will be even one more - thing is not the word ;) - to spend his time with... :)

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Zambo — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:18:10 +0000

by Zambo

Familiarity with the rules certainly helps, as does having a person dedicated to adding to the offer spaces and doing the other upkeep as necessary to keep the game moving at a nice clip. I've played 2-player (shortened) games of Le Havre in an hour.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

djgutierrez77 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:16:49 +0000

by djgutierrez77

If you play with the same person every time you may find it gets a little shorter, but this is kind of a brain burner and usually there are at least a few turns where you have to think long and hard about what you're going to do. The game is also a little bit fiddly--not in a bad way, but there are lots of upkeep type things to do--so it can be hard to take the time down too much.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Will there be a Le Havre expansion at Spiel09?

itchyrichy — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:14:01 +0000

by itchyrichy

While I would welcome more Special Buildings in a mini expansion, I wouldn't like to have anyting major done to the base game as it seems do exquisitly balanced.

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: 2 Player time length; does it really last 2 hours as stated in the rule book?

Suppe Kasper — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:11:04 +0000

by Suppe Kasper

I want to play this game mostly with two players; however, does it really take two hours as stated in the rulebook.

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Will there be a Le Havre expansion at Spiel09?

Seelenfeuer — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:27:46 +0000

by Seelenfeuer

Just wondering since there was some mouthwatering insights in the advents calender this year: Will there be an expansion for le havre published this year or not since uwe was too involved with loyang and the agricola expansion? if not, could someone tell me an approximative date for an expansion? thanks

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Stats Watch

JohnRayJr — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:14:03 +0000

by JohnRayJr

Wednesday, July 1st

Raw Score: 8.19
Bayesian Score: 7.95
Rank: 8 (2276 votes)
Users Owning: 2251
Plays: 6870
Weight: 3.8

Bumps out El Grande in fairly short order. Raw score still going up(!). T&E appears to be right around the corner. All these months later, Le Havre looks to be catching up with Dominion.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

Ponton — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:06:28 +0000

by Ponton

Timothy is right: for the 3p game, the order of the round cards is R03, R01, R02,...

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

Timotheous — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:06:09 +0000

by Timotheous

Is it possible the round cards were mis-ordered? the order of the first three cards (I think) is slightly different in the 3 player than in the other numbers.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

JohnRayJr — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:06:25 +0000

by JohnRayJr

dk1510 wrote:
I am confused. We played another 3 player game (short) this past weekend and the starting player does not always move sequentially. The first AND second rounds both are started by player 1 (as indicated by the little box on the right of the round card). After this the starting player seemed to go in order. So what gives? Does the starting player get to go first twice?

Short Answer: No.
Long Answer: I can't visualize what went wrong in your game, but still, no.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

Ponton — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:01:19 +0000

by Ponton

3p short games always go as follows:

1 ABC ABC A
2 BC ABC AB
3 C ABC ABC
4 ABC ABC A
5 BC ABC AB
6 C ABC ABC
7 ABC ABC A
8 BC ABC AB
9 C ABC ABC
10 ABC ABC A
11 BC ABC AB
12 C ABC ABC

Final action: ABC

Repeat this scheme for rounds 13-18 in the full game.
Check the round cards: they should show 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 and so on as who starts. This reflects exactly what I've posted above.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

waddball — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:50:17 +0000

by waddball

dk1510 wrote:
I am confused.

Dave, I don't have the cards in front of me so I can't confirm what they show. But maybe this player aid (in the files section here on BGG) would help?

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/37742

Just a thought, hopefully someone else can confirm there isn't a typo. I know there were some typos in the first print run, so...maybe that's the issue?

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

waddball — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:36:08 +0000

by waddball

Ponton wrote:
I agree with everyone here in this thread that, especially in 5p games, it's easy to get confused by the ships on the board as there are a total of 5 on just 7 spaces. Resetting them and starting to place them all over again, is indeed the better way unless you never had any problems with confusion.

This thread is bizarre, and getting weirder by the post. I cannot at all follow how this "reset and start again" approach works, and I fear to think about it further, lest it befuddle my small brain. Guess it just goes to show that people have very distinct ways of thinking. I never even bother with the round cards and the helpful (?) notation of who is next, as it's absolutely clear just using the ships.

But just for the record, I'm (now) in this thread, and I don't agree that it's easy to get confused. :)

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

Admiral_Ritt — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:21:26 +0000

by Admiral_Ritt

Sorry, 4 and 5 players seems best play to me.
It's the MANLY way to play, but do use time protection (sand clock)

I don't like the power of the ships in 2-3 players.

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: At the end of a round do players' ship markers reset?

dk1510 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:16:56 +0000

by dk1510

I am confused. We played another 3 player game (short) this past weekend and the starting player does not always move sequentially. The first AND second rounds both are started by player 1 (as indicated by the little box on the right of the round card). After this the starting player seemed to go in order. So what gives? Does the starting player get to go first twice?

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

Alan Stern — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:51:20 +0000

by Alan Stern

I prefer 3p Le Havre over 4p mostly because every fourth round in the 4p you get 1 action. If you're trying to avoid loans by feeding your people, this requires some advance planning for the 1-turn rounds. The additional preemption and increased scarcity of goods doesn't help either.

4p is a little slower than 3p and takes more time to get off the ground, but it still works fine. It's likely that fewer buildings will be built and players will ship fewer times, but the game still plays out fine, just with lower scores.

I would say the two biggest strategies are building and shipping. Specialization in either one can net enough points/coin to win. Shipping appears to be the easier of the two to pull off since it has a broad scale of efficiency. (I.e., If your plans don't quite work out, you can probably still ship for a lesser amount.) Building is a little harder since others can "snipe" your preferred buildings and the costs are inflexible.

One quick note on the strategies -- it may become difficult to pay back loans with a building strategy. The player's points are tied up in the buildings, they're not liquid or flexible. Last time I went for the buildings I ended up making *just* enough from the Bridge Over The Seine to pay off all my loans. I was sweating it, though.

Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Tannery - Wothless Buildings

Pyjam — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:36:22 +0000

by Pyjam

Meno1074 wrote:
It is worth doing when used to get leather for the Furnature maker. 4 leather and 4 wood nets you 24 francs. That isn't a bad haul for 2 moves.

Only if you already have woods, otherwise 24 F for 3 moves is only average in the endgame.
The tannery should be unlimited.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

Ponton — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:11:42 +0000

by Ponton

Shipping is far from being a VERY good way to earn points. It needs so much preperation like ships (which are expensive money- and resource-wise!), a real great bunch of energy (thus forcing you going the coal-coke-line) and a lot of valuable goods. And a lot of actions.

I've found that playing towards the special buildings is much more efficient and a very good counter-strategy to shipping. And with more than 3 players, ships become less important as they don't provide so much food. Eating fresh meat or bread in 4-5 player games is a very good counter-strategy to going with ships.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

thepackrat — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:47:42 +0000

by thepackrat

It's not true or what I had in mind, but certainly shipping goods is far more effective a points strategy than eating them.

B>

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

cferejohn — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:06:39 +0000

by cferejohn

...but most people struggled to meet food requirements or get ships together to ship anything with and ended up cannibalizing their shippable goods...

Hmm, the implication here is that the most efficient way to score points is to ship goods (and by extension that the best thing to do with goods is to ship them). I am far from certain that this is true.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

UnknownParkerBrother — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:20:37 +0000

by UnknownParkerBrother

To me, that's just what Le Havre is. A slow ramping up, getting your feet on solid ground, then rapidly expanding in the second half of the game.

I haven't played it a ton, but our 2, 3, and 4 player games have pretty much followed the same path.

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

Capoeirista — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:15:35 +0000

by Capoeirista

Come now, Bruce, be serious - we both know you'd never deface one of your games ;)

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

thepackrat — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:14:10 +0000

by thepackrat

I could write "Martin Wallace" on the box with crayon if it would help :)

B>

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

Capoeirista — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:12:27 +0000

by Capoeirista

thepackrat wrote:
The problem is that I'm basically a big softy who needs to be more aggressive in saying 'bugger off, this game is full'. Presumably there are some sort of classes available.

B>

Hey, I was more than willing to watch, but you insisted... :)

For me the game felt very slow, not just in terms of play time (which it was), but also in terms of pace. I felt that it wasn't until very late in the game that I started to achieve measurable results from my actions. The last 25-30% of the game was much more interesting than the preceeding time, but I'm not sure it was enough to make up for it.

I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, however, and would probably be willing to try it 3p before I reach my foregone conclusion ;)

Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: Differences between 4p vs 3p

thepackrat — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:55:18 +0000

by thepackrat

The problem is that I'm basically a big softy who needs to be more aggressive in saying 'bugger off, this game is full'. Presumably there are some sort of classes available.

B>