Craig Cashman
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I can pick up the Z-Man version locally in Australia for about A$18 or order the 'What's Your Game?' (WYG) edition from France for about A$44 (including postage).

Is the WYG edition worth the extra money?

A key concern is the simplicity of the iconography for teaching new players.

What do you think? My gut feel is to pick up the Z-Man version as I don't like to waste money - unless the WYG is that much better.
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Kevin B. Smith
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Re: Is the WTG edition of Fairy Tale really that much better than the Z-Man edition?
I'm not familiar with the WTG edition, but I can tell you that the Z-Man edition drives me crazy. The icons are fine. The problem is that between the unreadable font, and the indistinct images, it is hard to tell which cards pair with other cards. It makes teaching the game WAY harder than it should be.

EDIT: I'm not really familiar with the WYG edition either.
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Craig Cashman
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peakhope wrote:
I'm not familiar with the WTG edition, but I can tell you that the Z-Man edition drives me crazy. The icons are fine. The problem is that between the unreadable font, and the indistinct images, it is hard to tell which cards pair with other cards. It makes teaching the game WAY harder than it should be.


Thanks for letting me know. The edition I meant to refer to in my original post (which I have now fixed)is What's Your Game? (WYG). Sorry for the confusion.
 
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I own both; the WYG purchase was years after my original Z-Man purchase. I went out of my way to purchase the WYG version because I did like the "cleaner" look of that version, and wanted to have it too.

Having played with the "You"/"All" (who) and "Hunt"/"Unflip"/"Flip" (action) Z-Man text, the reversal of those in the WYG iconography (action then who) with the change of text to icons, was a little mind-tweaking, but obviously wouldn't be for someone starting with the WYG version.

I presume you've already looked at the gallery images to compare the styles; honestly, I think either version is as easy to learn, as long as there are no red/green color-blind players. Unfortunately for them, the WYG arrows for both the flip and unflip actions are exactly the same (see image below), so that without color distinction, they'll have to rely on memory or inference by point-value (low-scoring cards unflip/green, high-scoring cards flip/red).

What you won't be able to tell from the gallery images, though, is that the card-finish for the WYG version is not nearly as good as the Z-Man. I never sleeved the Z-Man, (I don't normally sleeve); there's wear after these years, but I have no regrets. Upon seeing the WYG cards, I purchased sleeves for them, and no regrets.

Ryan.

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Jason Webster
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CandyDominion wrote:
I can pick up the Z-Man version locally in Australia for about A$18 or order the 'What's Your Game?' (WYG) edition from France for about A$44 (including postage).

Is the WYG edition worth the extra money?

A key concern is the simplicity of the iconography for teaching new players.

What do you think? My gut feel is to pick up the Z-Man version as I don't like to waste money - unless the WYG is that much better.


I have both. I always grab my WYG copy to play with.
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MGS
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I have both and for that price difference I would buy the Z-Man version. The art is the same and while the WYG graphic design looks nicer, the Z-Man is quite functional and does not detract from the experience.
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Ronaldo wrote:
I have both and for that price difference I would buy the Z-Man version. The art is the same and while the WYG graphic design looks nicer, the Z-Man is quite functional and does not detract from the experience.
I agree with this.

It might be easier to learn from the WYG version, but once you've learned, it doesn't matter. My group learned with the Z-Man, and that's all we play with. Everybody knows each card by glancing at it, because they know the game.

I brought the WYG version once (sleeved), and they just stared at it and couldn't figure out why they'd want to play with it. It's nice to have but, if you're trying to economize, I'd go with Z-Man.
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Jason Webster
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Ronaldo wrote:
I have both and for that price difference I would buy the Z-Man version. The art is the same and while the WYG graphic design looks nicer, the Z-Man is quite functional and does not detract from the experience.


I have people in my game group that find the Z man version to hard to read and won't play if that version is used
 
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Craig Cashman
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Thanks for all the opinions.

I read in another thread that Z-man were going to do a reprint (with a redesigned look). Has anyone heard about this?
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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I just looked at the WYG cards again, and the way they "solved" the font problem that bothers me is to not even include the card names of the "friend" cards. Since the smaller versions of the images don't look that easy to recognize, that seems even slightly worse that the Z-Man cards.

Someone needs to publish a functional version of this game.
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Dana More
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I own both, and do not think the extra price would be justified. The z-man edition is fine. Actually, I think the card stock is better (linen finish) in the z-man edition.

FWIW, my favorite edition is the original Japanese edition. But that's just nostalgia...
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A. Mandible
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Wow. I own the WYG version and found the iconography terrible; I can't imagine how bad the Z-Man version must be if it's worse.
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MGS
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Z-man is not worse. WYG just looks nicer but it is not more functional. Whichever one you learn first will be easier.
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Craig Cashman
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Thanks everyone for your advice. As the retailer (Advent Games) in Australia was down to their final copy of the Zman version, I decided to proceed with the purchase. If I end up really loving the game, I can always upgrade to another version if it eventually gets reprinted again - but based on the comments of most people, it sounds like the version I am getting should be OK.

I will post back with my impressions after I get some time to play the game.
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Patricio Mendez
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There are already are functional versions of this game: The WYG and the Z-man version.

With both versions you will be able to play after you get used to the interface .

All the problems people have are a matter of preference. You can think of the game experience as 3 parts: the design of the game, the interface, and the player. All the interface is there to do is to deliver the design of the game in a way that the player can understand. It's the same game, no matter which edition you get.

The people that complain about the WYG design do so because they compare it to the one they are already used to playing.

Just go through the forum and you will see that people that played the WYG version first were able to enjoy the game just as much as the ones that played it first with the Z-Man version.
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Kevin B. Smith
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blindpanzer wrote:
There are already are functional versions of this game: The WYG and the Z-man version.

There are those of us who feel that neither one is "functional". Sure, you are correct that you can play the game with either edition. However, both editions chose "form over function" to the point that they are not "highly functional". Eventually it would be nice to have an edition that makes it easy to recognize which cards are friends with which other cards. That's what I meant by "functional".

The (not-safe-for-work) "Monkey's retheme" is better at this than the published versions, although I haven't analyzed the rest of the graphic design to know whether it has other problems.

Quote:
With both versions you will be able to play after you get used to the interface .

I have played the Z-Man edition 9 times, and the WYG edition once. I "can" play, but it has gotten to the point that I won't volunteer to teach the game, because the interface makes it so hard for new players.
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MGS
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As we are fine tuning the discussion. I find the Z-Man version "highly functional". I can quickly teach the game and have done so with players ranging from 8-39 years old. Fairy Tale is a simple game with a draft mechanic and a deck which has 4 suits, 3 of which have identical cards. I am just afraid that with the way he discussion is going, we are making it sound a lot more involved or glamorous than it really is. Some people, I won't volunteer to teach Magic Realm or Arkham Horror as the games are complex and some people may not understand them. But, Fairy Tale, any version, anybody, anytime.
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Kevin B. Smith
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Ronaldo wrote:
I am just afraid that with the way he discussion is going, we are making it sound a lot more involved or glamorous than it really is. Some people, I won't volunteer to teach Magic Realm or Arkham Horror as the games are complex and some people may not understand them. But, Fairy Tale, any version, anybody, anytime.

Fair enough. FT is simple, and should take 2 minutes to teach, and a first-timer should have no trouble playing. Thanks to the terrible graphic design, it might take 10 minutes to teach, and first-timers are likely to struggle somewhat. The game will still only take 15 minutes to play, but most first-timers will do poorly, leading to some frustration.

It's just sad because there is no reason for there to be any pain at all.
 
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peakhope wrote:
FT is simple, and should take 2 minutes to teach, and a first-timer should have no trouble playing. Thanks to the terrible graphic design, it might take 10 minutes to teach, and first-timers are likely to struggle somewhat.

I have seen troubles for first-timers, but I haven't found it attributable to the graphic design.

For example, neither the rules nor the cards say "your score for Baby Dragons is the square of the number you have." And some people don't figure that out if you don't tell them. I guess one could argue that the graphic design should have a picture of a square or something like that.

I have also seen confusion between the "partner" cards - not because people don't know which go with which, but because they find it tricky to pick up the underlying concepts - e.g., that some of these cards are actually worth 0 if you don't have the right match.

And the main confusion about when to flip and how much to flip and whether to flip don't really come from the cards but from the fact that the game requires a specific sequence of play that (1) is too complicated to put on the cards; and (2) is not specified in the rules as well it might be.

Maybe the best thing would be to have special cards with well-designed player aids.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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CandyDominion wrote:

Is the WYG edition worth the extra money?


Absolutely worth every additional penny imo.

CandyDominion wrote:

What do you think? My gut feel is to pick up the Z-Man version as I don't like to waste money - unless the WYG is that much better.


My opinion above? It's still true but irrelevant now.

You shouldn't buy either at the moment. It was just announced that Z-Man is updating the design and based on what they've done with the new art for Parade and Black Spy it will not only be cheaper but likely the most gorgeous edition to date.



Unless they completely screw something up it will be an insta-buy for me and countless others.

If by some chance you don't care for the update then you'll be able to get the older versions cheap when everyone else upgrades.

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Tim W
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Well I just saw the art and yea... they screwed up. It is fugly.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Winzzy wrote:
Well I just saw the art and yea... they screwed up. It is fugly.


Are you talking about these cards (from the Z-Man website):



 
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Jason Webster
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Can't be. The newest edition of Z Man games is really good IMO
 
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NuMystic wrote:
Winzzy wrote:
Well I just saw the art and yea... they screwed up. It is fugly.


Are you talking about these cards (from the Z-Man website):





Ohhhhh nice! Do want! (Drool)
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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gillum wrote:

For example, neither the rules nor the cards say "your score for Baby Dragons is the square of the number you have." And some people don't figure that out if you don't tell them. I guess one could argue that the graphic design should have a picture of a square or something like that.


The rules don't tell you to score it that way, because that isn't the right way to score it. If you have eggs of chaos or you name your trickster a baby dragon, you may not score a square number (for example, 3 baby dragons and 2 eggs of chaos are worth a total of 19 points)

I think the card is perfectly clear and consistent (at least the Zman, haven't seen the other). Each baby dragon is worth X, where X is the number of Baby Dragons (or Baby Dragon equivalent).

I think putting a square on them would be inconsistent and confusing, even if it were correct.
 
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