$10.00
Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

On Board Games» Forums » News

Subject: OBG 114: I'll Place My Worker Here rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Erik Dewey
United States
Broken Arrow
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Don and Erik are joined by Jason Frye to talk about worker placement games.

Erik and Don remind listeners about the current Cool Stuff Inc contest.

The link for the contest in the guild is http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1016693/obg-csi-contest

In the review-a-palooza, Erik and Don take a look at:

Time N Space
SOTM: Shattered Timelines
Agents of SMERSH
The Golden City
Heroclix



RSS Feed: http://onboardgames.libsyn.com/rss
Email us: onboardgames.net@gmail.com
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Miller
United Kingdom
Newport
Gwent
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I like how Dominant Species handles the turn order manipulation action - You only shift yourself one space up in the turn order rather than going straight to first player, and you get to play the worker you used for that again, after all the placements for this round have been made.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
caleb G.
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jason mentioned a mechanic that involved sacrificing a permanent worker to gain multiple temporary workers, and there is a game that somewhat mimics that idea. Skagway is a worker placement about prospectors in a Canadian town mining for gold, and there is an action space that will get you two temporary workers. The worker you used to get them doesn't die, but you only have two workers, so using half you actions for a turn to get more the next turn is similar to that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cyrill Lampart
United Kingdom
Guildford
Surrey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When I search for Stronghold games in the Google Playstore it is the 4th top result. At least for Europe that's the case.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Feeding workers, a great or annoying mechanic?

Feeding workers is a great mechanic, IMHO

Feeding Workers is annoying mechanic IMHO
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brenden Johnson
United States
Lakeville
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Have you guys, or Jason, played Caylus?
People complain about the dryness and the theme but mechanically I think it is superb, especially in the worker placement genre. While it may not have been the first worker placement game it certainly was the game that started the craze.

It was slightly humorous to me to hear you guys talking about the neat feature of Lords of Waterdeep or the Alien Frontier expansion where the board changes based on player choices and the buildings/powers giving their owners a benefit when that is a huge part of the game of Caylus.

And I kept waiting for you to talk about Caylus's turn order as well. While it wouldn't work in every game because of the added complexity I think it is one of the best in any game (I do really like Fresco's as well). Turn order is determined randomly before the game (it isn't clockwise or counter-clockwise) and then you can use a worker to move yourself to the top (or 2nd or 3rd, there are three open spots) of the order for next round. You don't have the problem of Agricola or Lords of Waterdeep where a player is happy going 2nd if the person to their right is taking start player every turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
justplainchips wrote:
Have you guys, or Jason, played Caylus?


Yeah, I played Caylus, and didn't really enjoy the experience. I'd heard good things and wanted to like it, but it felt like an effort to pile a great bunch of bits together by formula instead of being crafted towards a game experience. It's possible that because of the games I've played since then, or if played it with a different group, I might appreciate it more. Right now though it's stuck in the same category as Puerto Rico: Structurally sound but not fun. (Agricola sits in that same pile, but I really want to play Agricola again because I'm certain I missed something.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Regarding worker upkeep: I like it when worker upkeep is part of a game, but it makes the game much more stressful. That being said, I also like the idea of alternative forms of upkeep or the possibility of dismissing workers when upkeep is required.

Alternative forms of upkeep could be the equivalent of the 3-1 trading ports in Settlers of Catan, or greater amounts of secondary resources like victory points, angst cubes, dissent blocking off specific resources, or whatever.

Heck, a lesser upkeep cost to put the unit into hibernation, selling your workers to other players, or breaking the worker down into resource bits might be interesting as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Frye
United States
Myrtle Beach
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CANNIBALISM!!! Feed one worker to the rest of them! Way better than losing victory points
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Marling
United Kingdom
Cambridge
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
a few great recent games that I think deserved a mention:

The Manhattan Project: Has a 'place them or remove them' choice each turn mechanism in a similar way to Tzolk'in, but also has different qualities of workers, using other people's player boards (so they can't) and an intriguing end-game in which you're never quite sure who is about to win. A really great game.

Copycat: Takes a bit of Agricola, a bit of Dominion and a bit of Through the Ages to make a fun mix of worker placement and deck building.

Troyes: A great mix of dice and worker placement that can be very high on player interaction, while whether you roll high or low is cleverly mitigated.

Snowdonia: Thematic and clever, this worker placement game sees you working towards a common goal in a highly competitive way: grab as many points as you can before the game finishes the railway for you.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colin Lewis
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I liked your discussion around innovating the worker placement mechanic to keep it fresh. This is certainly one of my favorite mechanics, and seems to be quite popular among many highly rated games, so it becomes an often played. I for one have felt a little bit of worker placement fatigue and would love to see new innovation and variants of the mechanic.

Power Grid: Factory Manager, while not a true worker placement, has an element of hiring "temp employees" that give you additional meeples for a turn. There are also game options that tie up a worker or free up a tied up worker.

Dominant Species has another nice twist where you can get a worker in line for an action that you won't be able to take until your worker moves to the front of the line. This sacrifices the worker in the short term in order to guarantee that action for you later, up to 3-4 turns ahead if I remember correctly.

I would also consider dice management games like The Castles of Burgundy, Alien Frontiers, Kingsburg, and others in a different category. While quite similar, I think the dice rolling randomness warrants a distinct category.

Just a few thoughts.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I;m good with the feeding in Tzolkin but in Agricola it just makes me tired. Not sure what the difference is. I guess I have more time to plan in Tzolkin.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There are two games I loved the first time I played them but have progressively learned to hate: Kingsburg and Citadels. I won't talk about the latter.

After the first play of Kingsburg though, it really did feel like there weren't that many choices in Kingsburg so I started tracking games because my group loves that game. The long and the short of it is this: I came to two conclusions, or rather a conclusion in two parts.

1) Let the King fight the barbarians. If he rolls well and everyone else is contributing instead of you, you will win the game unless you have really disastrous rolling. Most of the time, he will either take care of things or more than one player will get hurt and your extra actions will (almost) make up for the penalty. Now if he rolls really badly and you get burned more than once, you'll lose the game but the odds are so in your favor it's a risk you should take. If everyone avoids taking the defensive actions (or only takes them because they are what is left on the board), then see 2.

2) I summed up the total rolls of 6 games of Kingsburg. In one game we had only one player dodging defense and saw the king roll poorly twice so the rule above came into play. In every other game the order of finish was exactly the same as the order of the sum of the rolls of the players. That is, the player that had the highest sum came in first, the second highest second, and so on. This was with a variety of players not the same four. It is possible we have unwitting group think (for instance, over time we have seen that the person who takes defense only when he has to does well so most everyone does that), but having played it outside the group, I don't think so.

Now, having said all that there are some people who adore this game and I expect they will disagree, but I am convinced by the data. Nonetheless I expect to see a post about how someone always takes defense and they always win, or that they are careful about getting exactly the cubes they need so can recover from low rolls, but honestly, I'm not buying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Indhra wrote:
There are two games I loved the first time I played them but have progressively learned to hate: Kingsburg and Citadels. I won't talk about the latter.

Good points on Kingsburg, and I agree on Citadels. I love the concept and want to like the game play of Citadels, but about three times around the table I'm starting to wish the game were getting closer to over.

Why? Probably because the roll selection action plays better with more people. However the rest of the game really seems to drag with more people. The next time I play I'll probably use the alternate characters and see if that helps at all. If it doesn't I may sell off my copy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Stewart
Macao
msg tools
I listened to your nice discussion on worker placement games, but was a little disappointed that there was no mention of my two favorite games of late: Keyflower and The Manhattan Project. Both of these are great examples of modern twists on the classic worker placement formula. Keyflower seemlessly blends worker placement with a simple bidding system that adds an extra dimension to its gameplay. The Manhattan Project adds in a bunch of direct player interaction (which is absent in most worker placement games), as well as a "place or pick-up workers each turn" mechanic that is a little similar to Tzolk'in. I really enjoy these two games, and I highly recommend them, especially if are turned off by "multiplayer solitaire" worker placement games.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Esteban Fernandez
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Ha! I was listening to Donald asking for new things on the worker placement games and let me tell you that if any day I finish this game you are gonna love it because it was anti-cultist vs Chuluh creatures

I called it a 4x Mythos game



Bad news is that the game was waaaaay too long, so now is on the shelf waiting for me to came back to it
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Esteban Fernandez
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Also I was wondering about the app for the Agents of SMERSH, haven't seen a link on the BGG game section, do you have any link?

I was wondering if there was an Android app of the game, but I can't find even the iOs version.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Carter
United States
Pullman
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I'm only 25 minutes in, but I think that you guys should consider making Pete/Jason a semi-permanent 3rd chair (except for occasional guests such as Giles and Scott). His audio quality is good, he has interesting things to say, and he seems to gel well with the mean man and cool cat.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
acarter wrote:
I'm only 25 minutes in, but I think that you guys should consider making Pete/Jason a semi-permanent 3rd chair (except for occasional guests such as Giles and Scott). His audio quality is good, he has interesting things to say, and he seems to gel well with the mean man and cool cat.


I've invited him to come back with great frequency but he claims he is too new to the hobby to have much to say. The one topic we will probably have him back to cover is Deck Building Games. After that it's up to our listeners to come up with topics which would entice him back.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Carter
United States
Pullman
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Walsfeo wrote:
...but he claims he is too new to the hobby to have much to say.


There's nothing wrong with having a novice be on a podcast with experts. One of my favorite podcasts pairs a relative novice investor with an expert financial adviser. Having the novice prevents the expert from glossing over topics that are "common knowledge" to people in his field. Similarly, the novice brings alternate perspectives not considered by the expert. Although, if you do take this route, you might have to alter your intro claiming to be "industry experts."

Regardless, keep up the good work.
--Adam
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
acarter wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having a novice be on a podcast with experts.


I agree. I've told him that he'd be a welcome additive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Frye
United States
Myrtle Beach
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Walsfeo wrote:
acarter wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having a novice be on a podcast with experts.


I agree. I've told him that he'd be a welcome additive.


In all honesty...they haven't offered me enough money.

JASON/PETE FRYE DON'T WORK FOR PEANUTS!


Also...they have more interesting people on the docket. Fear not, whenever there appears a lull in the schedule, there I shall be waiting to strike.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been thinking of taking a month off. Want to cover for me?

Heck, I could take a month off, then Erik could take a month off. Pretty soon the show could be yours.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Malachi Brown
United States
Hermitage
TN
flag msg tools
It's turtles all the way down.
badge
“Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself.”
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm catching up on my podcast backlog, but I wanted to thank you for pronouncing my name correctly.

My point about "worker placement" vs "action drafting" is that one is just a specific implementation of the broader concept. The issue I have is that some people, particularly those new to the hobby, will latch on to the concept of "worker" as a literal thing when some games apply it more abstractly (Alien Frontiers would be an example since the dice represent ships not workers). What this leads to is a pointless discussion where someone says that it's not worker placement because it doesn't have workers and someone else tries to explain that worker placement is just a stand-in term for a broader concept and does not require literal workers.

Also, there are some games where you "place workers" that are not actually "worker placement" games. Antiquity is a good example. It is even tagged as worker placement here, but the place workers phase is not an exclusive draft but rather like action selection by allocating your workers to tasks on your own little board, independent of what the other players are doing.

Other confusing ones are Terra Mystica, a game where one subset of actions are drafted, but the workers in the game are a different resource and not actually placed. Or Small World, where players place units (workers) on the board, but which is not "worker placement" as we understand it.

Yes, I agree that it seems like a lost cause, but Pancho Sanza and I will charge on anyway.

p.s. some interesting discussions:

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/154962/worker-placement-ar...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/842280/no-guys-it-really-is-...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donald Dennis
United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Malachi wrote:
I'm catching up on my podcast backlog, but I wanted to thank you for pronouncing my name correctly.
If your name was pronounced correctly, it probably wasn't done by me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.