I'll try to be brief.
Which for me is hard.
First want to say that I am a Game-O-Holic.
I'm Dave (All together now....Hi Dave)
This was my first GenCon in Indianapolis and I was really looking forward to it. And, in spite of everything that might have happened to the contrary, I had a great time.
Really enjoyed meeting all the BBGers there in the 500 Room:
Bob, Emily, Corey, Barb, Steve, Bryan, Jeff, Jordan, Adam, Dave, and the other Dave, Mike, Terry, Scott, Joe, (don't want to leave anyone out so, if I did, please forgive....)and on and on and on. I just had the BEST time. Met a lot of people that I will be friends with for life.
My purpose in this novel is to tell the tale.
So sit back... at the end you will get the "Attika" story you have heard floating around. I happened to me.

It started on Thursday after a bunch of us hit the dealer area and took our new products back to the 500 Room to find some open gaming.
We knew that many tables were assigned for ticketed events and we were respectful of that and looked for open tables not assigned to Game Base 7.

First we put up a simple 8 1/2 by 11 with a schedule of BBG people that had expressed interest in open gaming. That was taken down by BG7 clones without even a word.
Then, we had some paper with the words "Open gaming" set up at the tables we were playing (again, open tables not scheduled) and had that removed by another GB7 clone who looked at me in disgust.
OK, fine then.
Let the games begin.
Later that night outside of the 500 room I had a different GB7 flunky tell me would could not game in that room. I simply said I had paid my GenCon admission for 4 days and unless they had the power to bar me from anything there at the convention, I believed I could go anywhere I wanted.
Throughout out entire stay in the 500 room all of us were respectful of not taking up any space assigned for anything. We moved from table to table as new spaces opened up.
That did not stop the Game Base 7 people from inflicting themselves on us the entire time we were at GenCon.

Here are a couple more highlights.

At one point we were taking up two tables at the back of the room and were told we had to move. They were going to use those tables for role playing and we were in the way. One of us said they thought this was the board gaming room and that wasn't role playing going on in other places in the convention hall. This woman told us that she was with Game Base 7 and they needed tables "just like these" and we had to move right now.
So we did.
And saw that 4 hours later those tables still did not have anyone at them. Later that night, there was indeed some role playing going on at those tables. But we could have stayed and played if they were not so huffy about it.

There were several other stories of this kind where Game Base 7 employees/volunteers/who knows what, were making life generally miserable for all the BGGers that showed up to play.
I'm sure others can relate their stories in this thread, but let me tell you now the "Attika" story.

I went to the dealers room and bought a copy of Attika was tearing off the shrink as I was heading back the the 500 room. (Sidebar, I LOVE opening a new game. The crackle of the shrink as you peal it off. But my favorite is the punching..... OOOOooooo I love the punching. Especially one you been waiting to get for awhile, it is the best. Anyway, I know you all know what I mean.)

So, I get to the 500 room and 4 of us sit down to play. We are sitting at the back of the room at tables we know are not assigned and will not be assigned for 6 straight hours. We are good to go.
While we are setting up a board. Maybe the oldest clone at Game Base 7 comes by and tells us we are setting up in the wrong area.
I was thinking, Huh?
"You are in the wrong area the tournament is over at that table."
We all turn around and look towards the front of the room and see some folks setting up something but we have no idea what they are setting up.
"You will have to move up there", he says.
"We are not in the tournament", I tell him "We are just going to play my new copy here."
"You can't", he says
"Why not", me again
"Because they paid to play in the tournament"
"OK....I'm not follwing what you are saying here."
"You can't play a game thay paid to play" he tells us.
"Let me get this straight. You are telling me that I can not play a game I bought here from a GenCon vendor after I paid for my badge because someone else is in a tournament?"
"That's right" he says
"OK, I'm really trying to understand. Why can't we play a game that belongs to me?"
"You can play it later", he offers "When the tournament is over."
"OK, when will that be?"
"4pm" he says
"So over 4 hours from now, I can play. But I can not play my own game here with my friends at a table that is not assigned because someone else is playing the same game?"
"That is correct" he says satisfied that I may be slow but I finally got it.
What did he shirt say?
Any guesses?
Yep, Game Base 7 game moderator.
So we all try to look calm and I pull another game out of my bag and we go on with our day.

Game Base 7 tried to ruin GenCon for all the BGGers and you know what? We had fun anyway.
So before so Game Base 7 defender comes running to their rescue about how I don't know anything.
Let me tell you what I do know.
All of the people I ran into from Game Base 7 were rude and unhelpful.
They scowled at us and were just plain rude the whole time we were there. None of the people from that organization that I saw made any attempt to be polite or civil.

And before BG7 says "Hey, we don't make enough money for doing what we do." Let me clue you that I overheard a conversation from one of your officers who was out having a smoke break and I actually heard what your compensation from a convention like this is. So please don't plead poverty.

You may not make retirement money out of conventions, but you do make enough to put your folks through a little customer service training.
Because you know what? Those of us that purchased tickets are the customers. Never have a seen a group a people with so little power, try to weild that power so ruthlessly. We do not need stress at our conventions. We did not pick your career path, don't take it out on us.

I sure most of the folks here at BGG would pay a little more coin to have a area where open gaming is encouraged and supported. It's not like our hobby is so large we can afford to discriminate against those that want to game. In any form.

Yes, Game Base 7 left a bad taste in my mouth and did the same for many others at GenCon.

In spite of that.
I will be back next year.
So much for being brief.

Dave steps down off his soapbox and drags it behind the curtain.....

That says a lot about your willingness to game. Kudos to you! I went to Origins last year, and I was stunned at how little effort GB7 puts in to events we are expected to pay for.

It's wonderful that CABS took over open gaming in Columbus this year, because they actually seem to care about it. They are the only reason I'm considering returning to Origins in the future.

If my first experience with boardgaming was with GB7, I doubt I would have gone any further.

Just to clarify:

Ballroom 500 is split into two distict areas: GB7 and the Board Game Hall.

GB7's room and all of the tables in it are theirs to do with as they please. There are no open tables in that room, they all belong to GB7.

The Board Game Hall is where all of the non-GB7 scheduled board game events take place. The Board Game HQ controls that hall (under the direction of Lee and assisted by Kevin).



You were not in the board game hall, you were in GB7. Their room to do with as they please. They usually use it for board games, but they also have a large RPG presence as well.



GB7 may have had that table scheduled for an RPG event that didn't go off due to lack of players. It happens all of the time. If the table was scheduled for a game, then they needed to clear it off before the game was scheduled to begin but before they would even know if they had players for the game.

Mike Z

I have to agree. Last year GB7 handled the demos for FFG and it was a disaster.

For example, I had a few people last year play in my Doom events ,which I ran as an independent GM in the Board Game Hall, who had "learned" to play Doom from GB7. Before playing in my events, they were not impressed by Doom as the people in GB7 had not taught them the game correctly. They only showed up as they had pre-registered for the event several months earlier. After learning the real rules, they left with a much more favorable impression.

Mike Z

What is Game Base 7? The event organizers? Just wondering why the organizers of the event would do everything they could to make the event a terrible experience for those who paid to be there.

Continuing the saga... our first two scheduled games were GB7 sponsored... Struggle of Empires at 5 on Thursday, and Caylus at 9. They couldn't find their copy of Struggle, so I had to go get my copy out of the car to play it. At 9, guess what... no copy of Caylus. (We heard later that they found a copy, but still)

I wondered the same.
A bit of Google suggests this: http://www.gb7.org/

My only issue with GB7 was that we had a ticketed event for Caylus on Friday night and they didn't have a copy to play with. After discussion, it appears that the only copy they had was stolen the night before. That stinks. However since it was stolen the night before, you would think they would have hunted another copy down or at least cancelled the event before people gathered.

Fortunately we stalked a guy who had a copy until he sat down and joined in. He turned out to be a fellow Geeker... Arvedui. Thanks for the play! I should have given him a generic for playing but I didn't think about it until after the fact.

Our only other issue is when we attempted to get some open play area for 3 players next to the 500 reception room. The people at the desk were perfectly polite and assigned us a table that was open. 10 minutes later we were over-run by the "Out-of-the-Box" group who said they had had the same table and they knew it was theirs. We simply stated that we were only sitting at the table because that's where we were told to be... and moved to the next row over. Another 10 minutes later and guess who moves to the table that we moved to? Yep, Out of the Box! Looks like they didn't know where they were at afterall!

We thought about threatening them with the "we know this is our table" but we finished our game and moved on.

All in all, I would say everyone was most accommodating and as organized as possible for the "living environment" that GenCon is.

GB7 is an organization similar to the RPGA. The run numerous events at Origins, Gencon and a few smaller conventions.

The conventions like them as they organize themselves and run a large number of events.

Mike Z

Never heard of them either.



Apparently they don't run them very well either.



Well, there's the solution right there. Fellow Geeks "organize yourselves" and run some events, such as "open gaming," and show those disorganized GB7 geeks how it's done!

But seriously, this is the kind of behavior (described by Dave above) and lack of organization (described by others re: not even having the games available) that would turn me off attending conventions at all.

I mean, the very idea that Dave can't play his copy of Attika because someone else is holding an Attika tournament . . . ridiculous.

Sounds like a nightmmare. The wole bit with the tournament sounds really lame.

I have mixed feelings about GB7.

My only formal interaction with them this time was for a scheduled Give away the game Vegas Showdown event. My group showed up and played Havoc, at the table where the event was scheduled to be, while we were waiting. A little after 8 (scheduled start time), we hunted down a GB7 guy and asked when to expect the tournament to start. By this time, there were ~15 people waiting to play. Eventually one of them must have drawn the short straw and came over to tell us that there weren't any judges available, so we couldn't play and no copies could be awarded.

We asked if we could just use the copies and play for fun. I guess the concept of playing "just for fun" wasn't one to which he had been exposed much. After he did understand, he was great, he went and got four copies of the game, we filled them up and started playing (20 people, by then). A couple turns in, the judge had been located and they collected tickets and the judge commenced dispensing rules (some correctly) and insisting that we use no bid markers to indicate the the prices had to be lowered each round. She finally got distracted and we had a great time.

In my opinion, they try to run too many events, but don't have people available that know the rules to many of the games. (This opinion was formed over the last couple years playing in a few of their events and by discussions with friends that have been involved more heavily.) I think when running an event, especially if it is marked as beginners welcome, GM's must know and go through the rules, not just drop a box on the table at the start time.

So, if GB7 is looking for advice, I'd say cut down on the number of events/judge and make sure to provide a quality experience. I'm not going to boycott them, but right now seeing GB7 as the judge makes me less likely to sign up.

I second the "organize yourselves" comment.

GenCon really doesn't have adequate space for open boardgaming. That was apparent to me last year when, as I was running games for Avalon Hill, I constantly had people coming over to use our unused tables to play.

BGG is a huge site. GenCon would be happy to make us happy. I see a couple of options:

Have someone designated by this site to petition GenCon for a BGG meet and play/open gaming area, with the assurances that this will bring people to the con, make them happy, and provide a place where people can bring games they've bought and teach them to others.

Second option is for BGG'ers to volunteer to register as GM's for events titled "BGG open gaming," designating a game or two, and getting a couple tables set aside for a slot or two, where others can just come and play games. Of course, then we would have to shell out generics, too, but the person who registers as GM, if they register enough events, could get their badge comped, right?

Just some thoughts. I decided I couldn't make the con this year, but I will definitely be there next year. Depending on the situation (if I'm working for anyone or not), maybe I'll run some open gaming events.

I'd also like to thank Mike Z for his insightful and moderating comments. It's good to make sure things are put in perspective. GB7 may be sub-optimally run, but the real problem here is that there just isn't any open boardgaming area.

Good talk.

I'm sure this is true, but it was by no means clear at the convention. As I recall, there was one big banner saying "Board Games HQ" in front of the rooms. I had no idea (at first) that there were two different organizations running the rooms, and certainly wouldn't have expected roleplayers to come in and displace board gamers.

I would suggest that, if you want to have a positive impact, you contact the companies who's games you played and/or want to play, and make this information clear to them. If enough people express dissatisfaction with the way GB7 runs events, the companies will find another way to do it. GB7 doesn't have a monoploy on this stuff, they just provide a service in a way that looks attractive, ie: we will have trained judges for your game events, so you don't have to worry about it. Apparently, the service is sub-optimal.

Last year, Avalon Hill ran their play and take events through Pastimes, an event organizer from Chicago. Apparently, they switched to GB7 because they thought the service would be better. From my experience with the people responsible for making these decisions, if you contact them and tell them your story, they will not be happy and they will take steps to find more competent people to run events next year, and we will all have a better experience.

don't be`n "Hates" the GAME, just "HATES" the 'playahs' eh?
P.S.-ALL YOUR GAME BASE 7 "Play Areas" Я NOT BELONG TO THESE FOLKS!
personally, I'd be inclined to kindly inform such to STFU

So here's my story. I was at the Con, with my badge, wanting to play my new game Byzantium, having just purchased it at the dealer room. I went across the hall from Board Game HQ where I noticed there was a little office (GameBase 7?) and asked where I could set up my game and play. They said to go across the hallway to the other room and talk to the guy on the platform. I went across the hall, went by the game library, and waited in line. Pretty soon it was my turn and I looked up at the guy on the platform and explained what I wanted to do. I emphasized that I didn't want to get in the way, that I just wanted to know where I could play for a couple of hours. He hmmmed and hummmed and got out his schedule. He asked me what the game was, asked me my name, asked me what the name of the game was again, looked at his schedule, etc. By then a woman had come up to help out, so they were both looking at their schedule, looking down at me, and explaining how all the tables were filled up and that scheduled games had priority, followed by games checked out from the library, etc. I said I just wanted to play a game with my friends and I only needed to know where a table would be open for a couple of hours. Then the guy looked up from the schedule and said, "oh, you need to go across the hallway to gamebase whatever." It's been over ten minutes now, so I about hit the ceiling laughing and said that I was just over there and that they had sent me here. Then something very revealing happened, and the woman said something to the effect of the people across the hall getting even because of all the folks they had sent over there. They finally said I could play on H8, which wasn't actually marked on the tables, but that I would have to leave if they needed the space. I thanked them and returned to the other room where my wife and friend had already set up Byzantium while waiting for me. We played there unharrassed, and laughed about it, but this event convinced me that GenCon is about selling tickets and making money, not about gaming at all. I met some great people at GenCon (David, Bob, Emy, Mark, Adam, Jeff) but I don't plan to return next year. I'll probably go to Origins instead, or maybe BGG.Con, where board gaming will hopefully be the priority.

An additional side story. We learned to check the schedule for ourselves and were minding our own business playing a game in an area we knew was unscheduled. All of a sudden a Game Base 7 guy came up and said that we'd have to move because they were going to have an event there. We protested, and to his credit, he went away to check the schedule and realized he had been misinformed. In fact, he seemed a bit upset at his fellow Base 7 comrades. Needless to say, I am unimpressed by the organizational skills of this group.

I had an opposite event happen to me and my wife. I asked the GB7 people in their Headquarters if we could play in their room. It was kinda late, like after 9pm, and we talked to Ben? I think. He told me what GB7 was (I had no idea) and he explained that some of the tables may have events going. He found us a table that had no event and let us play Runebound there for the rest of the night. Sure, he gave us an application but I then understood that GB7 had that room and that GenCon BGG had the other big ballroom

Now the Saturday night I tried to find a place in the BIG ballroom to play a board game and it was a night mare

This all goes back to my thread on the GenCon boards, and I will repeat it here

Not enough open gaming. NEED MORE TABLES. I hate walking around with my copies of DOOM and Arkham Horror and begging the guy in the 500 ballroom to get a open gaming spot only to be knocked aside by some Ticket To Ride train game tournament that has 72 people show up. Put out more tables in ALL THE EMPTY SPACE YOU HAD THIS YEAR. I should not have to walk from hotel to hotel hoping to find a table when upstairs in the convention center was EMPTY. Put some round tables up there!

Based on the number of buttons that I handed out at Gencon, BGGers make up less than 0.5% of the attendees at Gencon. For every 1 BBGer there were 250 other attendees.

Gencon is not going to take the initative to provide the type of events that we want. Gencon runs very few events itself. Instead it relies upon a large number of different organizations to run the events.

Take for example the anime showings. Anime started showing at Gencon in the early '90s when a local college group (UW Parkside, IIRC) decided that they wanted to show anime at Gencon. They started small and it has built up since then. Now they have a special line at Registration for anime.

If people want an official BGG open gaming area, here is what I recommend:

1) Get permission to use the BGG name.

2) Contact Gencon around October. Right now, they are still busy with the wrap up of this year's Gencon.

Option A: See what it will take to get a dedicated room. It will likely have to be a small one. Most likely it will cost money. If I understand the situation at Origins, CABS paid for their room with ribbon sales and collecting generic tickets.

Option B: Organize a number of Judges and book events for 24 people at all times. As these will be ticketted events, they will have dedicated space in the board game hall. However, tickets will have to be collected and turned in.

Mike Z

It isn't about making money, it is about organizing the gaming.

25,000+ people playing in 4,000+ events over the course of 80+ hours.

How would you organize it?

Mike Z

GB7 has never provided anyone to explain anything in the years I've seen them.

I just find the game tossed on the table, sit down, and hope someone with experience will show.

So why does GB 7 Exist? And how does GB7 justify their existence.

Sweet mother of wet piles of dung, no wonder the whole charade ran like rusty gears on a manure spreader... Look at those bylaws! Robert's Rules of Order? I'm surprised it didn't lay out a Bicameral Legislation with an Executive Branch! Or did it??!!

No boardgamation without tableization!

If a single memeber of that group can read those bylaws, I find it no mystery that the whole ordeal is disorganized and complicated -- in fact I think chaos is mandated by its bylaws under article 42 of the cognition imperatives.

Yeeesh... People pay $10 a year to BELONG to that?

Written formal notice of resignation of membership? I need you to give you a note telling you to stick it when I decide to get on with my life?

Also the GB7 website looks like it was made in 1997 by a class of Junior High wannabe-programmers that just bough a copy of "HTML for Dummies"

HAHA I just read their constitution and bylaws. It looks like a union!!! Talk about taking the fun out of gaming. Who would pay money to join that pathetic group

First, let me say that I have nothing to do with GB7 and I'm not a member.



Well, it's their room. So it's more of a "Thank you for not kicking me out".



Are you a GB7 member? otherwise where's the "customer" part? GB7 is not the same as Gencon LLC so buying a badge doesn't have anything to do with GB7 AFAIK.



No, there's a map on a stand that shows tables by a letter and number grid with color coding for what each are used for.