For some reason I never joined this place before, but, now I'm here I'd love to hear your thoughts about the board gaming at these shows. I run that area of the show and would really like to know both the good and the bad. Most of you would/might recognize me as the 'guy in the black leather hat' however, at So Cal it is brown.

I've already read the thread about hating GB7 [and no open gaming] (please see respose under that thread).

Creating an area of 'organized play' by the folks on this forum would not be hard. In fact, I'd be willing to help make that a reality if you wish.

For those not impressed by GB7 I would suggest trying a game run by Rogue Judges.They are another small group of judges that DO know to run boardgames (they teach them if needed and have a knowing staff on hand).

I do not care how big this thread gets, I promise I'll read all posts and do my best within the system of Gen Con to make board games the VERY BEST of anyones Gen Con experience.

Lee Maile

Having been in games run by Rogue Judges over the past 4 years at Gen Con I can definately second the comment that they know what they are doing and it is joy to play in games run by them.

As someone who has run the board gaming room for our local con, and taught and run games at other conventions, I have a great deal of respect for the effort that Rogue Judges put into their events.

It would be great to see BGG or some other group of quality gamers sponser an open boardgaming area at GenCon that would work like the Board Room at Origins.

Hey, Lee.

Let me first say thanks for your hard work volunteering every year, and thanks for listening. You did a good job finding room for everyone to open play, when they asked.

My question is this. I was discussing with the guys I came with as to how hard it would be to go to the Con organizers and request a permanent open board gaming space for Board Game Geeks. If the Puffing Billy folks can buy a ribbon for $15 bucks and play rail games all weekend, can we arrange to get Board Game Geek ribbons for the same $15 and play all weekend on our own tables, too. I understand that Origins has a similar system set up, but it was less needed there because the whole con is more open to the social open-play atmosphere.

There was some feeling expressed among us that the GenCon organization is mired in burocracy, and therefore hard to crack. And that GB7 was what they were happy with, and that's just the way it was going to stay. An opinion I just can't quite accept.

Ideally, for this to work it would have to be in the event book ahead of time. I can all but guarantee that the geeks here would go for it - The badges would help us find each other without having to hunt down Mike to get one of the nifty buttons he made up for all of us.

If it's a question of finding volunteers to help keep it going, I also can't imagine it would be tough. It's be a smaller group that the Puffing Billy tournament, and they managed with just a few people at a time (and they have to keep track of wins, losses, schedules, etc.) Is this kind of thing possible?

Thanks for the time, Lee.

Hey Lee, I remember you from SoCal! I ran several games of Lord of the Rings and Robo Rally there - I think I was one of the only independent GMs.

Anyway, based on what I've been reading about Game Base 7, I'm wanting to do some kind of scheduled open gaming - having a table reserved, and a bunch of games with me that I can teach. (As an event, so I'd collect a generic from everyone for every 2 hours.) The goal being to give players looking for open gaming a place to rally, and to be able to teach and spread gaming.

I'm not sure if I'd be stepping on anyone's toes with that. I had a good time GMing last year, but I definitely felt like an outcast - like the people working for Wizards and such couldn't believe that someone was just running games for the fun of it!

Hi Lee,

Thanks for posting and listening.

While it's good that you've joined BGG, the fact that you hadn't previously is perhaps indicative of the sort of problem you are facing...

As far as suggestions, the ones I'm about to make apply to GenCon SoCal.

You've got a tough row to hoe. There have been three lackluster (at best) years of boardgaming so far, and the word is out in the local boardgaming community that it isn't worth the time or money to attend. Addressing and reversing that image is going to be a lot of work, and may well not be possible in the short term.

GenCon seemed to come to town with an attitude that if you just hung up the shingle, people would come, and deal with whatever, just because it is "GenCon". That may be true (to an extent) for CCG and RPG players, but it doesn't work for boardgamers.

First, a lot of the local Los Angeles-area boardgamers are used to being able to attend a day of high-quality gaming for free or for a nominal $5 fee. The local full-weekend conventions only charge $20-$35, with no event fees; but even those relatively reasonable costs put a *lot* of the local gamers off.

In order to justify GenCon's relatively high admission (not to mention the event fees (which *really* stick in the craws of the locals)) and the cost of gas and/or hotels, you have to deliver a superior product/experience.

To put it bluntly, GenCon SoCal is not doing that. There's a bit of a chicken and egg thing going on, but the reality is, without a high-quality experience, you just aren't going to get the people, so it falls on you to do what it takes to deliver.

You should prominently designate a sizable area for open boardgaming. That area should be open 24 hours a day.

That area should not be relegated to an off-site hotel; ghettoization never makes anyone happy. (And you should make sure that the lights stay *on* in that area. Last year, the lights in the off-site hotel ballroom went out repeatedly for extended periods of time; that sort of unprofessional occurance should not be tolerated or even possible.)

Game Base 7 should not be involved in running events unless and until they are able to deliver an acceptable level of customer service (at a minimum, this means being polite and professional, and being able and willing to properly explain the rules of the games they "run").

*Every* boardgamer I've spoken to about it has a GB7 horror story, and no one involved with GenCon seems to know or care. They are doing you more harm than good; you'd be better off with a relatively bare schedule than with them running a lot of events. Whatever their level of service at Indy, they are just too far from home in SoCal to do a decent job.

Have an ombudsman available (and prominently labeled and visible), with the knowlege and power to deal with issues like incompentent "help" from event runners, table-space conflicts, etc.

Something has to be done about the exhibitor hall. SoCal is a shadow of Indy, and that hurts badly. A lot of sins would be forgiven if the exhibitor area was compelling. Do what you have to do to get more and better exhibitors, particularly boardgaming-oriented ones.

You need to do better outreach to the local community; they are your attendees, and the ones that will run events that people actually want. That means doing more than setting up a table for a few hours at the local game conventions and leaving a few stickers and flyers once they leave (well before the day is over) or flyering the local gamestores.

Run more tournaments. That means more than Settlers and Puerto Rico.

Minimize overlap between prominent events (like tournaments); you don't want or need your big guns cannibalizing each other.

To recap, you have an image problem and an execution problem.

You have to address both; fixing the execution problem isn't enough, you have to fix it, and then convince people who've been turned off by the last three years to give you another chance. You also have to convince people to attend that haven't yet, either through not being convinced in the first place, or being put off by bad word of mouth.

Submitting a program of significant size and variety would certainly allow the 'Game Organizers' to request using "ribbons" as well tickets, or ribbons exclusively. With such a program in the book, there would tables pre-designated for that program the entire show, maybe not as many as desired (space issues will be a BIG issue the next 4 years), but as many as possible.
I can provide a great many details directly if you want to setup this type of thing.

I've got to be careful here. I DO NOT speak for Gen Con LLC, or any member of that company. I will say a few words expressing my own opinion however.

GB7 'ran' aboout 1/3 of the 1400 events in boardgames this past Indy. When any group dominates the program by that large a margin, they get noticed and dealt with according to the significance of thier contribution. They also are expected to perfom to a different level, one that I've been monitoring the last couple of years actually. I know they are not well liked by many for many reasons. I wasn't well liked when I assumed the role John held for years, I did things differently, still do, but that is another issue.

ANY group of significant program size gets noticed, TGA, Rogue Judges, A&A, and a few more draw attention without the negative feedback. Frankly I'd love to have another group doing a major selection of boardgames, one that would get the positive feedback GB7 does not.

Gen Con is not mired, just in transition and moving in small steps out of respect to the past when GB7 actually did a good job in the players eyes.

There is not an issue in what you want to do, just how. Submitting the event in a way that allows everyone to understand what your goal is would be hard part. You've only got a minimal amount of space for the description, that is what makes it a challenge. How do you say 'what' you have to teach and represent a large enough list to make it attractive to players in such a small space?

IF you could redirect players to website that lists everything you will have onhand to teach that works for those pre-reging' and for those onsite, they can just walk by. Just a thought.

I hope I did not contribute to 'outcast' felling, if so, I do appologize .

Wow!, ok. First, thanks for the wake up call regarding So Cal. I know that show has an entirely different set of issues, but was not so much aware of the perception problem. Been working on the mechanics first.

I know part of the problem is 'Boardgames' hasn't yet found a home, a stable location at the show. I know that Gen Con LLC is committed to making a better show each year, to staying the course in So Cal so long as it continues to grow, even marginally each year.

I'm going to need some time to fully digest your post before replying further.

I made a promise when I was asked to run BG's at GCI/GCSC, that was to make BG's the best run section of the show. Each year it gets better from the feedback I get of those attending and those I volunteer for. Looking at your note/letter, I'm no 100% sure I as a volunteer, even given the degree of trust they place in me can effect all of the changes your pointing at. especially not in just a few months, but, trust me to make sure the Programing folks know your feeling, since I cam sure your not the only one who feels like you.

Lee, I sent you a bgg mail. The new message counter has been disabled at the moment.

That's surprising to hear - in past years, there's been a lot of open space, and I've heard the convention described as 'cavernous'. Is there a big expected increase in attendance, or is the convention moving into a smaller part of the facility?



Great idea! I'll make it work out. I just wanted to ensure it wouldn't be a problem having games around to lend out, when GB7 or whoever does essentially the same thing. I'll submit event listings shortly...although that brings up another question. Since GenCon's reimbursement is based on # of players expected, what's a fair number of players to list for this event? I'd be prepared to handle anywhere between 2 and 50 players, I think!



Actually, you were very friendly! It was really nice to have a familiar face there, whether it was 10 at night or 9 in the morning. It wasn't anything specific, more just a feeling...like, players would often seem surprised when they asked me, 'so you don't work for Fantasy Flight?' And when people came by for my Robo Rally game, they were directed to the Wizards of the Coast rep. It's more just a matter of atmosphere, that the atmosphere of the board gaming section is more geared toward company demos and less toward independent GMs.