Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
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Here, from an old file I stumbled on while makign a vain attempt to clean my computer, is the Torture results Table from the original design for BLACKBEARD . . . a mechanic that was "nixed" before final publication. Obviously a different era.
Depending on how many of his Cruelty Rating points he applied, and what his 11-66 dieroll was, the pirate/player could attain the following array of results (some of which applied only to certain categories) and earn a given number of "Crew Control Points":
The [Original] Cruelty Results Legend Chart
Letter Event CCP's Earned
A+ Released without harm and may Recruit 0
A Released without harm 0
B Released after some "mild sport" 1
C Released after being severely mistreated 2
D Released after being beaten, assaulted and totally
humiliated 4
E Chained to ship, which is then burnt and sunk 3
F Tortured for information and then released 4
G Tortured and killed 6
H Held for Ransom . . . no harm (yet) 1
I Mistreated, but held for Ransom 3
J* Raped repeatedly, and then killed 8
* = If this result is obtained for the Governor's Daughter, roll another die. If the dieroll is a '1' or a '6', the GD and the Pirate fall madly in love. This situation enables the Pirate, within the next three turns, starting with the ensuing turn, to obtain a Pardon and Retire by entering Port in any port with any Governor. A dieroll of 2-5 and nothing happens - at least not of a permanent nature.
Well, there it is . Initially, the objection seemed to be to having a woman raped (a reprehensible act in any age, but a historical, if ugly, fact of life when presenting an accurate picture of that era). I suggested changing the rule wording to "Daughter/Son", as pirates were not particularly picky about their partners. No matter . . . the Philistines prevailed and out it went.
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R K
United States
Joliet
Illinois
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Wow! Thanks for not letting that disappear forever from boardgaming history!
While I personally do NOT feel that "political correctness" is a bad thing (so long as it is executed as "political AWARENESS"), in the context of a boardgame that seeks to remain historically relevant and cater to an audience whose goal is to emulate the entire picture of Age Of Sail piracy, such a table creates atmosphere without subverting the entire aim of the game itself. That is, the goal of the boardgame is to emulate piracy, not rape, and the presence of that table would not have been enough to alter that focus, despite the obvious disgust we all have for the vicious crime of rape.
The table you posted above SHOULD be incorporated into part of the Blackbeard files collection on BGG.
And if the mechanic is absent in the upcoming reworking of Blackbeard, hopefully some of us can crowbar it in a meaningful, tasteful, balanced fashion, making it relevant in gameplay without trivializing the crime itself.
But it successfully conveys the point: pirates were/are not, generally speaking, 'nice' people who excelled at OBEYING the laws of civility.
By the way, how goes the reworking of Blackbeard? Is it P500 yet?
-TF
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Brian Morris
United States
Raytown
Missouri
2nd, 6th & 7th Wisconsin, 19th Indiana, 24th Michigan
24th Michigan monument at Gettysburg Pa.
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The Captain Jack Sparrow/Dread Pirate Roberts aka Disney type version of pirates seem to be the prevailing view most people today (Mind you, characters from two excellent movies). However when it come to a game that is suppose to be a simulation I would like to have the torture included. If you can't simulate torture a few folks here and there then what's the fun of hoisting the Jolly Roger in the first place.
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Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
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"I would like to have the torture included."
Well, the new BLACKBEARD does have torturing of hostages . . . but without the table. Not sure how GMT will deal with this . . . for the ill-fated DILLINGER they got very squeamish about killing cops i na game.
"By the way, how goes the reworking of Blackbeard? Is it P500 yet?"
Remarkably well . . .lots of playtester enthusiasm . . . P500 looms . . .as does some visuals of the great artwork Mark Mahaffey is doing.
RHB
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Ethan McKinney
United States
El Segundo
California
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Hmmm... It's clearly not stated, but there's an implication in result J's Governor's Daughter rule that the GD "falls in love" after being raped by the pirate. While that may not have been your intention, it is a bit more uncomfortable than even the idea of "simple" rape. (The appearance of the theme in many bodice-rippers notwithstanding.)
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Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
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elbmc1969 wrote: Hmmm... It's clearly not stated, but there's an implication in result J's Governor's Daughter rule that the GD "falls in love" after being raped by the pirate. While that may not have been your intention, it is a bit more uncomfortable than even the idea of "simple" rape. (The appearance of the theme in many bodice-rippers notwithstanding.)
As I said, Politically Correct is is not . . .
RHB
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Peter Martin
Spain
Oceanside
California
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Actually, this is pretty tame compared to WOTC's D&D 3rd edition book "Book of Vile Darkness". That book let you choose your method of torture and the tables were pretty graphic in their descriptions.
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Jay Richardson
United States
Lindsborg
Kansas
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Richard H. Berg wrote: Here, from an old file I stumbled on while makign a vain attempt to clean my computer, is the Torture results Table from the original design for BLACKBEARD . . . a mechanic that was "nixed" before final publication. Obviously a different era.
This table was also printed in the Avalon Hill GENERAL magazine in Richard's two-page designer's notes article on Blackbeard, "Odyssey on the High Seas," that appeared in Vol 27 No 6 (1991).
This was quite an interesting article, recounting in some detail the many changes that occurred in Blackbeard prior to its publication by AH.
Blackbeard enthusiasts should definitely seek out that issue, and not just for the designer's notes article... there were four Blackbeard articles in that issue (18 pages in all).
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Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
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"Blackbeard enthusiasts should definitely seek out that issue...."
BLACKBEARD enthusiasts should simply wait a few weeks, until GMT announces the brand-new, "Designer's Edition" of BLACKBEARD - revised, updated and made ultra-interactive, with spectacular graphics - for 2007 release (hopefully).
Till then, that very piratical issue of The general will be worth the work in finding it . . . (I only have a copy of my article for that issue).
RHB
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Mark Mahaffey
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
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Yeah, that issue is classic. The great replay was accompanied by a brilliant novelized retelling thereof. I think I'll go pull it out of the closet now...
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Andy Daglish
United Kingdom
Cheadle
Cheshire
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Nothing like bringing the hobby into disrepute. An academic paper is one thing, but sadly a game is another, and you are not going to be able to justify your Rape Table in this way even within the hobby, let alone outside, especially since its seems to me the spotty Herberts who've posted here so far need to realign their thinking. The problem with political correctness is that you have be correct yourself in order to demonstrate the lie, and to hold the moral high ground in order to combat it, and clearly this thread lost all that from the start. Brian's beliefs that
Quote: However when it come to a game that is suppose to be a simulation I would like to have the torture included. If you can't simulate torture a few folks here and there then what's the fun of hoisting the Jolly Roger in the first place. are just a tad open to misinterpretation. If any of you have doubts about my point here, lets imagine portraying the life and times of Reg the Racist Pirate with a Racial Discrimination table that the local newspaper could review with your names attached prominently.
If someone did a game on the slave trade -- and its a useful proposition from the historical point-of-view, which has been seriously discussed, benefitting from the support of recent scholarship -- it would have to be done sensibly and carefully, as you would not want this type of detail causing local news reporters to give you a call. And yes it has happened before with topics we'd think were non-controverisal. Reaffirm your grip, lads.
A game on political correctness might be a better bet. I recall the non-physical but violent, long and bitter war the Native Americans fought with the feminists. Here "rape" could be presented as a political issue within the game. I suspect some think that is what this thread is about, but unfortunately it is not: the reality is being portrayed.
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Jason Maxwell
United States
Arvada
Colorado
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Nothing like resurrecting a year old thread on a 15 year old game to make a point...
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Now that is funny!
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Andy Daglish
United Kingdom
Cheadle
Cheshire
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JasonRMax wrote: Nothing like resurrecting a year old thread on a 15 year old game to make a point...
why then was it on the front page yesterday? Aldie should never have named that server "Wallace".
I see there's a new game called Blackbeard, Bluebeard and Redbeard -- what a wonderful example of social integration, ladies and gentlemen!
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Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
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We live in an era where people ache to be insulted . . .
RHB
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Petras Ražanskas
Lithuania
Kaunas
Kauno apskritis
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Shouldn't that game be called Afro-American Beard in the first place?
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Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
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"lets imagine portraying the life and times of Reg the Racist Pirate with a Racial Discrimination table that the local newspaper could review with your names attached prominently."
Given that several recent histories of pirates discuss this issue, it could have been made an issue. Then again, it wasn't a big enough issue to include as a game mechanics.
"If someone did a game on the slave trade -- and its a useful proposition from the historical point-of-view, which has been seriously discussed, benefitting from the support of recent scholarship -- it would have to be done sensibly and carefully, as you would not want this type of detail causing local news reporters to give you a call."
Yes you would. That sort of attention is usually exactly what you are looking for. To that extent there is no such thing as Bad Publicity (altho, for some reason - see my comment directly above - it temporarily affected Don Imus negatively . . . temporaily, as we now see). If you need an example of ths in our hobby, ask Evan Jones (if you can find him) about how a New York Times article on his self-published game on making money by becoming a drug dealer brought him so much publicity - and sales - that it essentially turned his life around.
And y'ever see what's in some of these computer/video games? Compared to some of that egregious pandering, the (old) Rape Table is an episode of Mr Rogers.
RHB
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