Ann De Haes
Netherlands
Doorwerth
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Hi All
I found this PDF on the site of Zoch GmbH, with the English and French ruleset. Maybe this will come in handy.
http://www.zoch-verlag.com/de/spiele/hastebock/srhb_enf.pdf
Greetz, Ann
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Doug Orleans
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
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Wow, there's quite a few changes in these rules from the Mayfair edition:
1. There is no "resolving the flock"-- there's nothing to prevent the flock from separating. This gets rid of one of the fiddliest and most confusing parts of the rules, and it somewhat reduces the chaos by making the result of one move a bit less drastic.
2. There is a board, and you can't move beyond its edge. This is probably necessary to deal with the flock being allowed to separate.
3. When you do a Lamb Slam, you can push through multiple empty spaces if there's another sheep on the other side. See Figures 4.2 and 4.6. This seems kind of unintuitive, but again it's probably necessary to deal with a separated flock.
4. The Sheep Leap (known as Boiinnggg! in the Mayfair rules) can be done diagonally as well as orthogonally. I'm not sure why this change was needed, since it's already a very powerful move, but maybe it's just to make it more similar to the other movements that can happen in any of the 8 directions.
5. Spaces are not compressed when doing a Line Push or Diagonal Push. The entire row, column, or diagonal is moved, including spaces. This makes more sense than compressing spaces, although it seems to compound the problems of a separated flock.
6. You must cause at least one sheep to be moved. I.e. you can't use Wool Rule (here renamed to Feeding Trough) to pass. I'm not sure why this was necessary, but it's pretty rare that someone would want to pass anyway.
7. A roll of white on the Sheep Panic die means you get to do a a Lamb Slam with any sheep you want, while in the Mayfair rules it means you do a Ewe Turn (which has been renamed to Herd Instinct here). Seems like a reasonable change, since that 1/6 chance of rotating the herd can be pretty devastating if it happens at the wrong time. It also simplifies the rules for what you can and can't immediately undo.
8. Apparently you are allowed to immediately undo a line push or diagonal push, even if there's no intervening Sheep Panic. I guess this simplifies the rules a bit, but I think it might be a bad idea to allow this kind of undo.
9. Empty rows are ignored for scoring purposes in pastures 2 and 4. Again, an adjustment to deal with separated flocks.
10. Sheep in the row closest to the shearer in pasture 4 always get zero points, but they are not removed from the board. This change makes a lot of sense-- no danger of player elimination.
11. Not really a rule change, but each player has a hand of action cards rather than an action mat and Mutton Buttons. The actions cards are face up, so you can still always see what actions each player has left, though it seems like an obvious variant to keep these hidden to lessen the chance of analysis paralysis.
12. The tie-breaker is the highest sum of the flock token movement points on unused action cards. I like this, because it favors the players who got fewer turns, but it's a little odd because the most powerful options (Sheep Leap and Herd Instinct) are one-point actions.
13. In the 3 player game, you get 3 extra action cards (with 1, 2, and 3 flock token movement points) that just move the flock token, which can be played in addition to your normal action. Each one that you don't use by the end of the game is -2 points. This is similar to the extra action mat in the 2 player Mayfair rules, but without the confusing restriction about having to have fewer extra actions than empty spaces after every turn. Presumably this change is required because they no longer have the reversible scoreboard. I think this might add a little more tactics since it makes it easier to get to a Sheep Panic space when you need it.
14. In the 2 player game, both players get an entire extra hand of action cards that just move the flock token, and you must play one card from each hand on every turn. Again, just an artifact of not having the reversible score board, but it's actually a bit more elegant.
Overall, I think the changes make for a more elegant ruleset, and I think I will try to play this way the next time (if I can find a 9x9 board the right size, and 1/2/3 number cards for the 3-player game). I'm most skeptical about allowing diagonal Sheep Leap and undoing Line Push and Diagonal Push, but I'll try it.
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Ann De Haes
Netherlands
Doorwerth
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DougOrleans wrote:
8. Apparently you are allowed to immediately undo a line push or diagonal push, even if there's no intervening Sheep Panic. I guess this simplifies the rules a bit, but I think it might be a bad idea to allow this kind of undo.
This is not completely true, since you can do the line push only with a row of sheep which does NOT contain your own sheep. The same goes for the other player, so the chances of undoing his move are very slim I'd say.
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Doug Orleans
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
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7ofAnn wrote: you can do the line push only with a row of sheep which does NOT contain your own sheep.
I don't see that anywhere in the English rules you just posted. It says "You can choose any sheep to perform this action."
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Thanks for pointing out these rules.
I just glanced over them quickly, but they must significantly change the strategies used compared to the Mayfair version. Sheared sheep are not even eliminated anymore (am I getting that right?). Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying out the changes to see which version I like better.
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Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
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Amy, Doug, let us know which version you prefer and why
-(another) Doug
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Ann De Haes
Netherlands
Doorwerth
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DougOrleans wrote: 7ofAnn wrote: you can do the line push only with a row of sheep which does NOT contain your own sheep. I don't see that anywhere in the English rules you just posted. It says "You can choose any sheep to perform this action."
I got that from the german rules I think. I shall look into it again.
@ the other Doug: I only have the Zoch edition, so that is what I play.
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
France
Ferney-Voltaire
Just across the border from Geneva, Switzerland
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I wonder what the Lamont Brothers think of the changes? I'm also wondering why changes were made in the first place since the game worked well as published...
Gavin
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Doug Orleans
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
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Most of the rule changes seem to have the goal of simplifying the game without breaking it. Getting rid of the fiddly "resolve the flock" step makes it much easier to explain, though it has a number of ramifications (including adding a board). Some changes also make the game friendlier or less chaotic, such as removing sheep elimination and removing the Ewe Turn from the Sheep Panic die. Overall I think the Zoch developers did a good job, but I still haven't tried the new rules yet.
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Bob Wilson
United States
Northampton
Massachusetts
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DougOrleans wrote: ... though it has a number of ramifications
HAHAHHAHAH. "RAM-ifications!" Snort.
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C.K. Au
Malaysia
Kuala Lumpur
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I'm fine with most of the changes except that perhaps we should retain the Shearing elimination as a variant? It's fun when you get to push other sheeps to the shearer.. ouch, you out.
In any case, at that stage the game is about to end so even if the player is eliminated, there's no long wait. Plus it'll make for a frantic finale!
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Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
Victoria
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I use original Fragor rules for the game EXCEPT when it comes to the shearing of sheep.
I play it that sheep are NOT eliminated but instead score 0 points.
This prevents kingmaking or beating up on the leader.
The rest of the haste bock rules are made to eliminate the flock seperation phase. I personally don't think that this phase is a problem. It keeps the board nice and compact.
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Massimiliano della Rovere
Italy
Pisa
Tuscany
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Correct address is:
http://www.zoch-verlag.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Spielregeln...
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