Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
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http://www.vaticanboardgame.com/
for details on how to purchase.
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Joe Geerkin
United States
Eden
New York
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A game about the election of the Pope might be interesting. This one's board looks very Monopoly-ish, however.
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Stephen Haliczer
Illinois
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Dear Joe,
As the designer I can assure you that "Vatican" does not resemble Monopoly even to the slightest degree.
Stephen Haliczer
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Paul Sauberer
United States
Hendersonville
Tennessee
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Stephen,
It is nice to see the designer here. Are the rules posted anywhere so that they can be looked at before buying? I may be interested in tehg ame depending on how it looks like it plays.
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Stephen Haliczer
Illinois
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Thanks for taking notice of the release of my game. I designed it to take the player (who takes the role of a cardinal) through three phases. The first phase deals with the life and career of the cardinal where he builds up the influence and offices that places him in a position to be considered as a viable candidate for pope. The second phase (which begins with the death of the pope) involves the run-up to the election and the third phase is the conclave itself where the new pope is actually elected.
The game is selling worldwide.
Thanks again,
Stephen Haliczer Ph.D.
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Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
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roig257 wrote: Thanks for taking notice of the release of my game. I designed it to take the player (who takes the role of a cardinal) through three phases. The first phase deals with the life and career of the cardinal where he builds up the influence and offices that places him in a position to be considered as a viable candidate for pope. The second phase (which begins with the death of the pope) involves the run-up to the election and the third phase is the conclave itself where the new pope is actually elected.
The game is selling worldwide.
Thanks again,
Stephen Haliczer Ph.D.
What are the competitive aspects? Where do they occur and what do they deal with? Can you expound on that! Thanks for creating the game!
-Doug
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Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
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Also, will the game be available in any retail stores?
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Stephen Haliczer
Illinois
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Dear Paul,
The rules have not been posted as yet and I think what we will do is post a powerpoint of our poster. We include a colorful poster in each gamebox that provides a quick overview of how the game is played.
Stephen
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Stephen Haliczer
Illinois
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Dear Doug,
Thank you for your interest. I designed "Vatican" primarily as a simulation/game in order to give players an experience of the process whereby a pope is elected. It is based on a deep study of the careers of the most important cardinals especially those who are considered "papabile" that is those who are considered papal material. Of course this is only a minority of the 115 voting cardinals. That being the case, the simulation/game had to bring the players through the process whereby cardinals gain the requisite influence to become prominent. This is essentially the first part of the game: Life and Career especially the acquisition of key offices. Some offices are more valuable than others hence a competition to aquire the most valuable offices. At the end of phase I all players have acquired the minimum number of offices that makes them "papabile" but they have different scores.
The second part of the game takes place after the pope dies (Papacy Ends cards) and takes players through the critical period between his death and the opening of the conclave where his successor is elected. Here the players must make a series of critical choices. As in real life during this period they must take positions on a variety of issues confronting the church and must guess which positions would prove the most attractive to the other voting cardinals. Players compete to figure out which positions would be most attractive but this is not always easy.
The third part of the game is the conclave itself. This is designed to be brief with just a few votes-as in reality. The last conclave was decided by only 3-4 votes in two days.
A broader and more general answer to the question of competition is as follows: You cannot in real life plan to become pope. There are too many chance factors and variables that you cannot control. Age would be an excellent example. A cardinal of 58 might be very attractive at a certain period of time. The previous pope might have been too old and died very quickly after election so the cardinals would be inclined to vote for someone young. On the other hand, if you were 58 after a pope had reigned for 25 years, your age would count against you since the cardinals would not want such a long serving pope again so soon.
As a designer of a simulation/game, I could not build in elements of competition that would distort reality. I had to build in the chance factors that really impact the election.
I hope that this discussion was helpful and gave you some insight into my thought processes.
The game must be ordered online and will probably not be in stores for some time-but shipping is free.
Thanks again,
Stephen Haliczer
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Paul Sauberer
United States
Hendersonville
Tennessee
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Stephen,
Thanks for the time you have spent here.
The main question I have about the game regards the driving force behind the outcome. Is it primarily luck-based or do the players have choices that shape how they do?
Does the game primarily consist of rolling the dice, moving a marker, perhaps drawing an event card, and then seeing what happens from that? Or do the players direct where their pieces go and what actions they take and then see how those choices determine how likely they are to eventually be elected pope?
Your description that you can't plan to become pope in real life makes it sound as if the game comes down more on the random side of the fence. Is that so?
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Stephen Haliczer
Illinois
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Dear Paul,
I would say that the outcome depends on randomness highly conditioned by the constraints and parameters that reflect the career paths that must be followed by cardinals and the range of issue oriented choices and decisions that are open to them. The high degree of chance in the game reflects the high degree of chance that conditions the situation of prominent cardinals in reality. "Vatican" is not and could not be a strategy game without diluting its simulation aspect and distancing it from reality.
Stephen Haliczer
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Paul Sauberer
United States
Hendersonville
Tennessee
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Stephen,
Thank you very much for your fast reply.
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Stephen Haliczer
Illinois
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Dear Paul,
I will be sending a copy of the game to Stephen Weeke the NBC correspondant at the time of the last conclave.He would like to play it and compare the experience of play to his own experiences in reality. The real question for anyone who tries to design a simulation is how close did I come?
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Morgan Dontanville
United States
Brooklyn
New York
Plate of Shrimp.
Here we are folks, the dream we all dream of.
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I really want to try this game, but because of the formating I fear it will be a roll and move game.
I think that the best way to move general interest into sales would be to post the rules here on the geek. I just can't justify buying this if it is another roll the dice/read the card/see what happens game.
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Morgan Dontanville
United States
Brooklyn
New York
Plate of Shrimp.
Here we are folks, the dream we all dream of.
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roig257 wrote: I will be sending a copy of the game to Stephen Weeke the NBC correspondant at the time of the last conclave.He would like to play it and compare the experience of play to his own experiences in reality. The real question for anyone who tries to design a simulation is how close did I come?
I would bet that I don't have the same taste in games as Stephen Weeke. It would serve you better here to send a copy to someone who is an expert in the field of gaming, rather than an expert in the field of what you are trying to simulate.
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Luke Ronaldson
United Kingdom
Southampton
Unspecified
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I find myself wondering if the game simulates how the church would like us to think the pope is elected or how the pope IS elected. I'm no expert but I suspect they might be quite different approaches. The more interesting game would be the one based on reality I feel:
Financial influence , negotitation, alliances, betrayal, bribery, corporate interest
... and maybe: Smear campaigning, threats, (the Mafia???) 
I'm not trying to offend any Catholics out there but surely the most powerful position in the Catholic church is prone to scandal in much the same way as heads of state.
On the other hand, if the game is based on how some Catholics and the church would like us to perceive it, then it could end up simulating "the hand of god", which is probably not so concerned with the posturing of mortals and will just come down to who truly deserves to be elected. Granted, the instrument of God's selection is the cardinal's vote and so you have to be in a certain position to even be a candidate, but then it must come down to some latent `purity' statistic to be generated randomly at some point in the game.
From what I have read, the game designer does seem to be taking the more interesting route. I like the idea that in the game the cardinals can change their stance on important issues in the church in order to get more votes (the Vatican can't condone that sort of behaviour).
I say "Bring on the intrigue". Sounds like it could be fun. Although I also fear the roll-and-move menace, previously mentioned.
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Roberto Ardon
United States
MIAMI, FL
Florida
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I played the game yesterday (january 29) with friends and family. The game took almost three hours (longer than expected) but we were six players.
There was lot of fun! In the first step, 5 out of 6 players met the conditions of going to the second step quite easily, but the sixth player, due to bad throwing of the dice, keep us holding for about twenty minutes.
The questions regarding our view in church matters allowed us to discuss these issues not only in a intellectual fashion but in a funny way also.
The second step, more issue oriented, took also some time. This is an important part of the game but not for everyone, because this is a little bit down tempo.
the third step, the conclave, was very fast. In fact I was elected in the second ballot round, and assumed the title as Pious XIII!
Good game but you need to play it with people with the same interest as yours-
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Posted Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:55 am
