Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
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I was talking to someone last night and trying to explain why I do very little wargaming anymore.
I was first introduced to wargames in 1970 by a guy in college who got me playing AH's D-Day. Then he taught me Midway, then Afrika Corps. By then I was an avid wargamer.
I spent the next twenty years collecting and playing AH wargames and SPI games.
I spent tons of time playing Panzer Blitz because I love me some tanks.
But in the late 80's I began role playing and got away from wargaming. Then came MTG and I got swept away with CCG's.
But in the midst of Magic, I also discovered Cosmic Encounter, Illuminati and RoboRally. And I finally realized something.
There's more to playing a game than shooting the other guy's troops. Even Magic is just shooting the other guy's troops. There's more variety to it, but the purpose is the same.
And finally I discovered Settlers. And then the absolute wealth of board games just a couple years ago.
So here are the top 10 reasons I don't wargame anymore.
1. I've killed enough Nazis, Japs, Chinese, Americans, English, Hoplites, Roman legions, Johnny Rebs, Bluecoats, tanks, ships and airplanes to last a lifetime. Oh and elves, dwarves, giants, dragons and fairies too.
2. Wargames, no matter how unique their system, ALWAYS boil down to the same few results: hold out, eliminate or devastate.
"What do you mean these gems I amassed don't count as victory points??"
3. Non-wargames allow for more interesting themes than just war. They also allow mechanics that would never work in wargames.
"I'm playing Hans Guderian and I've decided to improve my spice track. Huh??"
"I'll trade you 2 wood for a B-17. What??"
4. I've found I much prefer the social aspects of multiplayer games.
I can now blame my losses on 5 people and spread the hatred around better. And it's easier to excuse your losses if you can accuse all your opponents of ganging up on you.
It's also good because invariably out of 5 or 6 people, one of them will suck worse at whichever game you're playing than you do.
5. If I don't play wargames, for the most part I never have to worry about line of sight again. Or terrain, with some exceptions. Or lines of supply, or snipers or, well you get the idea.
6. I don't have to leave games set up for a week so we can finish it next weekend.
"Are you sure your kids can't get to this before we meet next week?"
7. No more chits, blocks, or other pieces with inscrutable numerals on them.
"This is a 7-5-3-8-2 with a big X in the middle? What can I kill with it?"
8. If I don't play wargames people will think I'm younger and hipper.
Most of the people I see playing wargames are older than Burt Reynold's toupees.
9. I'm a pacifist by nature. In my younger days my rage was strong and pure and killing things gave me great satisfaction. This is much less true now.
"What do you mean I can't send up air support over my influence in Notre Dame?"
10. I did my time in the military and while I have no regrets of 4 years in the Navy, that's behind me now and I have no urge to rule the world, just a harem of good looking females.
Which reminds me, I need to buy Emira and get good at it.
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The root of all evil... but you can call me cookie.
United States
Gainesville
Florida
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Yo! and to top if off you have The Cramps avatar. Yeah there seems to be a LOT of us who went through a very similar evolution as you laid out there.
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Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
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bleakgeek wrote: So what games do you play nowadays?
I tend to prefer Eurogames. However I don't have problems with playing AT games either.
But given my druthers, I'll play Goa or RRT or Notre Dame etc.
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Paul O'Connor
United States
San Marcos
California
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You'll be back.
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Guy Riessen
United States
petaluma
California
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goldenboat wrote: You'll be back.
Yep
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David Bohnenberger
United States
Swarthmore
Pennsylvania
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I play whatever game I think will be fun. If that's a wargame, that's what I play.
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Robert Fix
United States
Sterling Hts
Michigan
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Rokkr wrote:
4. I've found I much prefer the social aspects of multiplayer games.
I can now blame my losses on 5 people and spread the hatred around better. And it's easier to excuse your losses if you can accuse all your opponents of ganging up on you.
It's also good because invariably out of 5 or 6 people, one of them will suck worse at whichever game you're playing than you do.
Actually, I think that the multi-player aspect is why you see so few wargames at conventions outside of the big shows like Origins and WBC. I am the boardgame director of a gaming group that has run shows in the Detroit area for over 30 years, and at least 1/2 my game collection is wargames. Since I have become director, I have found that the vast majority of boardgamers prefer multi-player games, which is why you see far more non-wargames at conventions. Games like Friedrich, History of the World, Napoleonic Wars, etc. have made a "go" at our conventions mainly because they are multi-player wargames. Also, the time and space needed for 2-player wargames at conventions are not really cost effective for the conventions. If I have 8 players play Axis & Allies, I am using up 4 tables for at least 1/3 to 1/2 a convention day. A multi-player non-wargame can use 1 table for 4-8 players and take only 2 hours or so, which makes the turnover more cost and space efficient.
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Interpretation Matters
Spain
Texas
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Maybe I should start a thread....
Top 10 reasons I just don't give a ##(*! about what 99.9999999999999% of the people posting on BGG have to say....
....about almost ANYTHING. 
I, of course, am the exception. I read my stuff every night before I go to bed. I'm AWESOME!!!!!!!
That's why everyone should pay attention to what I think- which is that everyone is full of it here.... hey.????!!!!!
Darilian
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L Myrick
United States
Pasadena
California
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Dweeb wrote: I play whatever game I think will be fun. If that's a wargame, that's what I play.
Exactly what i was thinking when i read this thread. If it's good time, whether it be wargame, ameritrash or euro, i'll play it. Lifting one's nose at a whole category of games is just snooty and pretentious.
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Wes Nott
United States
Warrensburg
Missouri
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Rokkr wrote:
1. I've killed enough Nazis, Japs, Chinese, Americans, English, Hoplites, Roman legions, Johnny Rebs, Bluecoats, tanks, ships and airplanes to last a lifetime. Oh and elves, dwarves, giants, dragons and fairies too.
You might want to think about typing out Japanese.
Do you play any wargames anymore?
I just try to vary what I play so it doesnt feel like every gaming session i'm doing the same thing.
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Mike King
United States
Wilder
Kentucky
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lmyrick wrote: Dweeb wrote: I play whatever game I think will be fun. If that's a wargame, that's what I play. Exactly what i was thinking when i read this thread. If it's good time, whether it be wargame, ameritrash or euro, i'll play it. Lifting one's nose at a whole category of games is just snooty and pretentious.
I don't think he was being snooty or pretentious. He's just saying what he feels are the weaknesses for this genre. And I understand it. I have really stopped playing most videogames because almost all of them are about killing. And the other annoyances with arcane rules and multi-factor counters are legitimate gripes about wargames, especially when other game types have developed game systems that deliver strategic gameplay with more streamlined rules.
I do think, though, that there are a lot of great new wargames that have broken out of the old-style mold. Games like Friedrich, Bonaparte at Marengo, Duel in the Dark, Tide of Iron, M'44, reduce or eliminate one or more of these 10 reasons. They've allowed me to continue wargaming without going crazy. They also provide the one thing that I love about wargames, that other games rarely have in such concentrated doses--immersion in history.
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June Hwang Wah
Singapore
Singapore
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Hey! The universe needs its share of violence and mindless mayhem.
 Whether it is from supply cutting panzer regiments, snake-eye rolling HMGs, testudo forming cohorts or even arachnid demolishing MIs.
If everyone became a woosey wood-trading Cataan-Settler, rice-box enveloping Samurai, or (gasp)unicorn-riding ElfenRoader, what will our world come to?
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Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
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lmyrick wrote: Dweeb wrote: I play whatever game I think will be fun. If that's a wargame, that's what I play. Exactly what i was thinking when i read this thread. If it's good time, whether it be wargame, ameritrash or euro, i'll play it. Lifting one's nose at a whole category of games is just snooty and pretentious.
Larry buddy, seriously work on that sense of humor. Ok?
I realize people don't always get my sense of humor; but I think in this instance most of them are.
One of the things I don't like much about the internet is how quickly and easily many folks are to being offended.
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Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
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MrSkeletor wrote: And if we do the spinal tap thing and go to eleven...
11. You have turned into a giant, boot licking pansy.
Hey, the guy running the current war apparently likes boot licking pansies.
So maybe I'm just lobbying for the attorney general job.
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Wolfgang Kunz
Germany
Wilnsdorf
Wir sind die Woelfe
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Sprydle wrote: goldenboat wrote: You'll be back. Yep
For sure
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Lagduf wrote: Rokkr wrote:
1. I've killed enough Nazis, Japs, Chinese, Americans, English, Hoplites, Roman legions, Johnny Rebs, Bluecoats, tanks, ships and airplanes to last a lifetime. Oh and elves, dwarves, giants, dragons and fairies too.
You might want to think about typing out Japanese.
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Adam Knight
New Zealand
Titirangi
Auckland
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dvader123 wrote: Lagduf wrote: Rokkr wrote:
1. I've killed enough Nazis, Japs, Chinese, Americans, English, Hoplites, Roman legions, Johnny Rebs, Bluecoats, tanks, ships and airplanes to last a lifetime. Oh and elves, dwarves, giants, dragons and fairies too.
You might want to think about typing out Japanese. I agree with this statement. You should probably write it out. They're referred to as Japanese not Japs.
Similarly, Homosexuals or even Gays is much less offensive. There's no need for name calling.
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Thomas P. Felder
Germany
Munich
Bavaria
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I would like to see more multi-player wargames with some economic issues added, like, the Axis&Allies Boardgame (yeah, I know, it's not a wargame). Would be non-historical so.
Something like Pacific Victory; you can play it with 2 other guys and you need to decide on which new units you'll purchase.
Maybe some diplomacy in it, and there's my favorite game... Oh wait, it should be a lot like Twilight Imperium (third edition)! 
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Rokkr wrote: 8. If I don't play wargames people will think I'm younger and hipper.
Now, that's a GOOD reason!
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Dev
United Kingdom
Sutton
Surrey
The Ragados
Ragados
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But who else will save the Universe from the untold hordes of Chaos, Tau, Necrons, & Tyranids!?!!?
Remember folks, as a well known author once wrote: "Only you can save mankind"
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Justin Fitzgerald
United States
Black Earth
Wisconsin
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Rokkr wrote: I realize people don't always get my sense of humor; but I think in this instance most of them are.
I would have thought the comment about a harem of women would have tipped everyone in. Silly peoples! 
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Chuck Pierce
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
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Rokkr wrote: Silly peoples!
errr, meeples! We are talking Euros, right?
BTW, I've had a game of RAF set up on the dining room table since Sunday. The British countryside is littered with Dorniers, Junkers, Messerschmitts, and a few Spitfires. Now, that's fun!
Railroad Tycoon and/or Powergrid this weekend will also be fun.
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David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
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Chuck! Don't you have work to do!
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Chuck Pierce
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
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Aging One wrote: Chuck! Don't you have work to do!
LOL. Busted!
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Andrew Carlstrom
United States
San Marcos
California
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Rokkr wrote:
But in the late 80's I began role playing and got away from wargaming.
Then you have no idea what you are missing. We are in the golden age of wargaming, my friend. There are an amazing number of quality games coming out or recently released. Production values are better than ever and still improving. Rules are better edited, games better tested. There are more low/moderate complexity games on more topics than ever.
Sorry to see you go, but we're doing just fine without you. Enjoy farming in retirement.
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