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Ca$h 'n Gun$: Yakuzas» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shuriken Clarification rss

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Thomas Pellitieri
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The English rules were not exactly clear about how to use the Shuriken. When a Yakuza uses a Shuriken, the rules state that you must get up, step back 3 feet, and throw the Shuriken at the target character. If you hit the character, they are wounded.

Well, the first time we played it, we had the Yakuza players toss their foam Shuriken at their opponents. This seemed a bit strange, and also a questionable game mechanic.

Since I read French, I took a look at the French rules. There, it clearly states that you target the Character Card, and you must knock it over with the Shuriken in order to inflict a wound.

--Tom Pellitieri
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Anselmo Diaz
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Mmmm...yeah, I agree it doesn't sound like a sound(pun intended)game mechanic, at all.
I own the base game, and am planning to get this expansion, but clearly if the shuriken works this way...I'm not so sure now...ninja
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Tim Gilberg
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Echtalion wrote:
Mmmm...yeah, I agree it doesn't sound like a sound(pun intended)game mechanic, at all.
I own the base game, and am planning to get this expansion, but clearly if the shuriken works this way...I'm not so sure now...ninja


What, are you expecting a CRT or something?

The shuriken rules fit Cash 'n Guns quite well.
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Anselmo Diaz
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CnG is a fun game, people shoot at each other, but only in gaming terms.
The rules of play are solid.
Now, if you have to phisically throw the shurikens, I can see how this could unbalance the game, making it more chaotic, besides of the problem arising from the players standing up, leaving their chairs, and throwing their shurikens.

The distance stated in the rules is 3 feet. Ok, do we need a Warhammer-like ruler to measure this distance? gulp Some players may object to this being unfair, as some people will undoubtedly fiddle with this.
The shuriken is aimed at the character standees. Aha, so how shall they be arranged on the table? What if the gaming table is small, and all character standees are packed together?shake Specially as there can be as many as 9 players. Does the shuriken hit them all?

These are some of my initial fears regarding such mechanic. If I ever get the chance to play, I may find even more issuesninja
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Thomas Pellitieri
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The point of my post was that the Character cards were to be targeted. The English rules were unclear, and implied (to me, anyway) that the player should be targeted by the shuriken.

The Yakuza's Shuriken is played immediately after any Bang!Bang!Bang! but before the other cards. It's rather powerful, but it is subject to a (relatively easy) dexterity play.

This is offset a bit by the Tanto. While the Tanto can only be aimed at an adjacent player, it will ALWAYS target someone. If the original target ducks, the next person around the table gets targeted instead!

At the start of the game, the players are divided into three teams of gangsters. Everyone starts sitting next to players in the other gangs, so the Yakuza can target either opposing team.

Also, there is at least one Yakuza ability that allows the player to change their position at the table.

Yes, it is more chaotic, but overall I think the Yakuza have some pretty powerful options (e.g., you don't take a shame marker the first time you duck - but if you duck a second time, you take a wound instead!). Without these disadvantages, they would certainly overpower the gun toters.

--Tom
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Anselmo Diaz
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Aha
Thomas, should I get this expansion? Do you think it's fun/balanced, etc... is it as good as the base game?
Cheersninja
Also, after reading the rules, it's not stated that there's a shotgun included, but there is one, isn't it?
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DK Kemler
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Echtalion wrote:
CnG is a fun game, people shoot at each other, but only in gaming terms.
The rules of play are solid.
Now, if you have to phisically throw the shurikens, I can see how this could unbalance the game, making it more chaotic, besides of the problem arising from the players standing up, leaving their chairs, and throwing their shurikens.

The distance stated in the rules is 3 feet. Ok, do we need a Warhammer-like ruler to measure this distance? gulp Some players may object to this being unfair, as some people will undoubtedly fiddle with this.
The shuriken is aimed at the character standees. Aha, so how shall they be arranged on the table? What if the gaming table is small, and all character standees are packed together?shake Specially as there can be as many as 9 players. Does the shuriken hit them all?

These are some of my initial fears regarding such mechanic. If I ever get the chance to play, I may find even more issuesninja


Dude, you're playing a game that involves throwing foam shurken at cardboard stand ups. Your over thinking here.
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Anselmo Diaz
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degamer wrote:
Echtalion wrote:
CnG is a fun game, people shoot at each other, but only in gaming terms.
The rules of play are solid.
Now, if you have to phisically throw the shurikens, I can see how this could unbalance the game, making it more chaotic, besides of the problem arising from the players standing up, leaving their chairs, and throwing their shurikens.

The distance stated in the rules is 3 feet. Ok, do we need a Warhammer-like ruler to measure this distance? gulp Some players may object to this being unfair, as some people will undoubtedly fiddle with this.
The shuriken is aimed at the character standees. Aha, so how shall they be arranged on the table? What if the gaming table is small, and all character standees are packed together?shake Specially as there can be as many as 9 players. Does the shuriken hit them all?

These are some of my initial fears regarding such mechanic. If I ever get the chance to play, I may find even more issuesninja


Dude, you're playing a game that involves throwing foam shurken at cardboard stand ups. Your over thinking here.


Mate, that throwing shuriken mechanic is a development new to the expansion, not previously seen in the base game. So I keep my doubts about the game being balanced, as the shuriken rules are so under-developed, imo.
It creates a need fo physical rules, as, like I said, there's plenty of room for fiddliness: the throwing distance not being respected/measured(OK, this one may be a bit geeky), this means some people will benefit, while others won't. And there are no rules here to make this unbiased.
The position of the cardboard stand ups: How should they be arranged? Together? Apart? There's the possibility of the shuriken hitting a few or ALL characters, specially if the gaming table happens to be small.

So, these are issues that players may encounter when playing the expansion. You don't need to be a rules lawyer to find that some players may find these throwing shuriken rules a bit fiddly.
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John John
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Echtalion wrote:
... there's plenty of room for fiddliness ... some players may find these throwing shuriken rules a bit fiddly.


Anyone getting "fiddly" over Ca$h 'n Gun$ is missing the point.

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Sam Pavone
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Shotgun is included! It's a new "power" card I think

Echtalion wrote:
Aha
Thomas, should I get this expansion? Do you think it's fun/balanced, etc... is it as good as the base game?
Cheersninja
Also, after reading the rules, it's not stated that there's a shotgun included, but there is one, isn't it?
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Nicolas Doguet
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pellitieri wrote:
The point of my post was that the Character cards were to be targeted. The English rules were unclear, and implied (to me, anyway) that the player should be targeted by the shuriken.


Yeah, sorry about that...blush

I thought "Character" instead of "Player" was clear enough. My mistake. You're absolutely right. The player using the shuriken must target another player's character card.

And your analysis about the balance of powers with the Yakuzas seems right on the money to me.

Have fun.

Nico
____
My wife says I should get up and go to work, but the voices in my head say I should stay home and clean my guns.
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Mark Farr
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Echtalion wrote:
Mate, that throwing shuriken mechanic is a development new to the expansion, not previously seen in the base game. So I keep my doubts about the game being balanced, as the shuriken rules are so under-developed, imo.
It creates a need fo physical rules, as, like I said, there's plenty of room for fiddliness: the throwing distance not being respected/measured(OK, this one may be a bit geeky), this means some people will benefit, while others won't. And there are no rules here to make this unbiased.
The position of the cardboard stand ups: How should they be arranged? Together? Apart? There's the possibility of the shuriken hitting a few or ALL characters, specially if the gaming table happens to be small.

So, these are issues that players may encounter when playing the expansion. You don't need to be a rules lawyer to find that some players may find these throwing shuriken rules a bit fiddly.


I completely agree with you here. It's not a case of gamers trying to be too "gamey" with the rules, in my opinion, but rather that the very crowd this game works so well with, the casual or non-gamers, often expect you to be able to explain exactly how the game works. When there are areas open to interpretation, anything vague, they can be put off.

When throwing a shuriken, can you make a player move his character card because you can't see it from where you are standing? Do other players have to move so that you can see it? Do mugs/glasses, other character cards, or any other obstructions on the table have to be moved out of the way? I agree that this is a simple, fun game that should not be taken seriously but, for many of us, clear rules go a long way toward making this possible.

Having read both sets of rules in one sitting, both for the first time, I couldn't help thinking that the Yakuza rules made those of the base game seem a lot smoother. Granted, these are hardly complicated rules, and one play will probably see most people find a way to handle the shuriken in quick time with no issues, but I would have preferred it if the shuriken did not involve any manual dexterity. It seems out of place with the rest of the game.

I have the same aversion to the special power (I think it's the ninja) that lets one of the Yakuza players move around the table and switch seats. Given that this is pretty much a party game, it sounds alright, but I can see some people getting tired of having to move their drinks, ashtrays and what not every time the ninja moves.

I was wondering if one can play with the Yakuza characters and not use the special powers at all. The base game has the special powers as optional, whereas the Yakuza rules are explained with the special powers as though they are required to make the game work well. I suppose it would be a shame to play without the possibility of the shotgun making an appearance but I was thinking of a situation where you have more than 6 people who are new to the game (the primary reason I purchased the expansion). In this situation, the special powers seem superflous.

Oh well, I'm sure I'll get to try it out soon enough. I have a feeling that everything will work out fine, the fun overriding any mistakes or "fiddly" rules.
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