Recommend
190 
 Thumb up
 Hide
32 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Memoir '44» Forums » Reviews

Subject: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Ancients rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
mbmbmbmbmb
Command and Colors System: Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir ’44 and C&C:Ancients





Introduction

Before I begin, I must state my bias. I am a fanboy. I greatly enjoy Richard Borg’s system, and I have enthusiastically taught a number of individuals all three games, which all parties have greatly enjoyed.

I would have loved to include Battle Cry in this comparative review. But as it is OOP, I haven’t been able to get myself a copy to play enough games to do it justice.

My logged plays for the three systems are currently, which are the minimum number of plays for each game (as I sometimes forget to log!):

BattleLore: 13
Memoir '44: 24
Commands & Colors: Ancients: 9

A short description of the Command and Colors System can be found in the wiki at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Command_and_Colors_Sy...

Availability

Both BattleLore and Memoir '44 are readily available at most online and local game stores. These are both published by Days of Wonder and consequently are quite easy to find.

Commands & Colors: Ancients is published by GMT Games and is therefore only available at selected game stores. It can also be found at the GMT Website. Commands & Colors: Ancients is now in it’s Second Edition, and this comparative review has been completed using this Second Edition.

Review:

As I often do, I’m actually going to start with Componants, as this is the first thing you get exposed to.

Components:





Overview

As mentioned, being published by Days of Wonder, both BattleLore and Memoir '44 have exceptional component quality. The board is thick, the dice are wooden, the figures are plastic and the cards and counters are made of good stock.

Commands & Colors: Ancients, being a GMT product, has wooden blocks, board is made from cardboard, dice are plastic and the cards are of good stock.

Board
thumbsup BattleLore – The Board is thick, solid and double-sided. The reverse side is made specifically for “epic” (double-sized) battles.

thumbsup Memoir '44 – The Board is thick, solid and double-sided. The reverse side is used for beach scenarios.



thumbsdown Commands & Colors: Ancients – Many have griped that Commands & Colors: Ancients board is too thin, is hard to get flat and requires plexiglass to use. Personally, being the owner of plexiglass, I do not have a problem with this anymore. But I do admit that this is a legitimate gripe, as my first couple games without plexiglass was prone to sliding blocks.

Best to Worst: Memoir '44BattleLore - Commands & Colors: Ancients

Figures

thumbsup BattleLore – Nicely detailed and moulded plastic. There are also many different moulds for light, medium and heavy infantry, different cavalry, goblins, dwarves, archers, monsters etc. Each piece has a flag holder, whereby the appropriate plastic banner is attached to show which side the unit belongs to. This leads to the first gripe against BattleLore which is the generic and numerous pieces. BattleLore can take a while to set-up in the attempt to find all the correct figures and a storage solution like the below is highly recommended.



Also, being used for both sides, all the pieces are a dull grey. For those with time and painting skills, this creates a blank canvas for some wonderful work, but for the majority of us, simply makes the figures seem a bit dull and generic.



The second gripe against the BattleLore figures is that many of the figures are a bit ‘bent’. A guide for fixing these is dropping them in nearly boiling water then shocking them in ice water. url has been kindly supplied by Gregaria here: http://blog.battlelore.com/bent/en/


thumbsup Memoir '44 – Nicely detailed and moulded plastic. Memoir '44 figures come in two different colours and the different sides have different moulds. This gives each side it’s unique look, which again has been improved by meticulous painters. Because there are only a few different moulds per side, set-up is quite quick.



The one gripe is again that some of the guns are bent, particularly on the artillery and tanks. This can apparently be remedied following the guide above.

thumbsup Commands & Colors: Ancients – Wood blocks. I love the feel of the wood blocks. The stickers have great artwork as well. You will need to spend a few hours putting all the stickers on though, which is a negative. Have I mentioned they are wood? On the negative, you will need a storage solution such as below to make set-up proceed smoothly.



Best to Worst: Commands & Colors: AncientsBattleLoreMemoir '44

Cards/Play Aids

thumbsup BattleLore – Good card stock. Nice thick counters. Rule Summary cards for all terrains, races, etc.

thumbsup Memoir '44 – As BattleLore above, but some cards are double-sided, which is a pain, as you need to flip them over. Not quite as polished as BattleLore, but still good. This has been remedied in the Memoir '44: Air Pack

thumbsup thumbsdown Commands & Colors: Ancients – Cards are good. Play Aid is a large ‘card’ which summarises all the troop types and some rules. Some have said they prefer this set-up as opposed to Days of Wonder’s solutions above, which would not have worked due to the large number of different troop types. I think the Player Aid could be a bit better with terrain and other details on it. There are also no counters, which would have been nice to denote the Sacred Band and other special troops.

Best to Worst: BattleLore - Memoir '44 - Commands & Colors: Ancients

Dice

thumbsup BattleLore – Wooden. Have been problems with faces fading.

thumbsup Memoir '44 – Wooden. Great. Wins First Prize in the Dice Category.

thumbsdown Commands & Colors: Ancients – Plastic with coloured stickers. I hate them. I’ve been informed you can order replacement wooden dice, but I haven’t seen them in my country.
Thanks to jonjac who supplied url for wooden dice at Valley Games: http://www.valleygames.ca/games.html#acc

Best to Worst: Memoir '44BattleLore - Commands & Colors: Ancients

Overall Value of Main Components

thumbsup BattleLore - So many figures, so many counters, so many cards! Great Value!

thumbsup Memoir '44 – Not as many figures, counters or cards, but still great value.

thumbsup Commands & Colors: Ancients – Although some disappointments in the dice and board, the wooden blocks still leave Commands & Colors: Ancients with a thumbs up.

Best to Worst: BattleLoreMemoir '44 - Commands & Colors: Ancients


The Rulebook: thumbsup

thumbsup BattleLore – Beautiful, Large, Verbose. Pretty much sums up what BattleLore is like.

thumbsup Memoir '44 – More streamlined than BattleLore. Elegant and clear.

thumbsup thumbsdown Commands & Colors: Ancients – Hardest rulebook to read and sometimes confusing layout. Still relatively simple compared to other GMT games, it is not nearly as nice as BattleLore or Memoir '44.

Best to Worst: Memoir '44BattleLore - Commands & Colors: Ancients

The Scenarios: thumbsup

thumbsdown BattleLore – I really don’t like the BattleLore scenarios. They build on each other, each adding a few rules to the former. But they really feel like a bunch of units and terrain was randomly thrown onto the map. A rare, but significant let down from BattleLore. Limited Playability

thumbsup Memoir '44 – Scenarios are Elegantly designed and their historical information enables the players to immerse themselves in the recreated battle. Some of the scenarios are unbalanced, as can be seen on the Days of Wonder website. But, as many suggest, just play each scenario twice, once as each side, if this bothers you. Each scenario also feels very unique, and for this I applaud loudly. There is a lot more playability and replayability here than in the BattleLore scenarios. Most scenarios hav special rules.

thumbsup Commands & Colors: Ancients – Scenarios are varied and based on historical battles. They are fun and feel unique. Not as many special rules as Memoir '44, but a thousand times better than the thrown together scenarios of BattleLore. Good play and replayability.

Best to Worst: Memoir '44Commands & Colors: Ancients - BattleLore

Gameplay:

Summary of Play:

All three games obviously use the Comand and Colors System. For specifics on how to play each game, please visit their individual pages.

Review of Play:

thumbsup BattleLoreBattleLore is not elegant. It has tons of figures, tons of terrain, tons of play aids, and the game is often a major clash between forces. Of the three, BattleLore is the Hammer. Or usually two equally matched hammers pounding away at each other. Throw your forces at the enemy, try to keep them bold, and hope you come out on top. Monsters which can be killed by a single arrow, or withstand ten charges of mounted knights, can be fragile or rugged. Game time is usually the longest of the three, usually a good hour.

thumbsup Memoir '44 – The antithesis of BattleLore. Terrain means everything. This is an elegant game of manoeuvring around terrain to try to get an advantage against the enemy. With most scenarios being ‘asymmetrical’ you need to be careful who and where you move. Game Time is usually 30-45 minutes, the shortest of the three.

thumbsup Commands & Colors: Ancients – Also very elegant. Terrain is often not present (or simply sets boundaries). Gameplay revolves around formations, protecting flanks and cohesion. Some say Commands & Colors: Ancients is more elegant than Memoir '44, which could be true. Battles will eventually result in the clash of arms after the skirmishes harass the enemy. Elephants, Chariots and Cavalry mix up the battles. Game time tends to run under an hour.

Best to Worst (elegance & game time): Memoir '44Commands & Colors: Ancients - BattleLore

Expansions

thumbsdown BattleLoreBattleLore: Call to Arms is relatively essential for long term replayability of BattleLore. But even with that said, all the expansions to date do not feel like good value for money. The number of figures you get compared to the base game is minimal at best. The number of expansions released deemed necessary to keep BattleLore afloat also attest to the simple fact that, out of the box, BattleLore does not have great replayability and poor scenarios. A complete list of expansions is below:
BattleLore: Hill Giant
BattleLore: Earth Elemental
BattleLore: Call to Arms
BattleLore: Epic BattleLore
BattleLore: Dwarven Battalion Specialist Pack
BattleLore: Goblin Skirmishers Specialist Pack
BattleLore: Goblin Marauders Specialist Pack
BattleLore: The Hundred Years' War – Crossbows & Polearms
BattleLore: Scottish Wars

thumbsup Memoir '44 – Although the Memoir '44: Terrain Pack and Memoir '44: Winter/Desert Board Map are poor value. The other expansion packs are brilliant! New rules, wonderful figures make them winners. List follows:
Memoir '44: Overlord
Memoir '44: Terrain Pack
Memoir '44: Eastern Front
Memoir '44: Winter/Desert Board Map
Memoir '44: Pacific Theater
Memoir '44: Air Pack

thumbsup Commands & Colors: Ancients – There is only a single expansion released so far (and two on the horizon – Commands & Colors: Ancients Expansion Pack #2 – Rome and the Barbarians and Commands & Colors: Ancients Expansion Pack #3 – The Roman Civil Wars). But this expansion is fantastic. It doubles the number of wooden blocks and scenarios, adding Greeks and Persians. It is a fantastic expansion
Commands & Colors: Ancients Expansion Pack #1 – Greece & Eastern Kingdoms

Best to Worst: Memoir '44 & Commands & Colors: Ancients (tied) - BattleLore

Customer Service/ Companies

thumbsup BattleLore & Memoir '44 – Days of Wonder is great. Without any problems they sent me replacement dice for BattleLore. Their website also allows action report tracking and more scenarios.



thumbsup Commands & Colors: Ancients – GMT is also very supportive. I have been told that one individual had a problem with their stickers being cut incorrectly and GMT instantly sent out a new sheet of stickers. I have had a similar problem with a different game with a component missing, and GMT, without batting and eyelid sent a replacement.



Rating/Summary:

Now comes the difficult part. This is very subjective but my best to worst would be Memoir '44Commands & Colors: AncientsBattleLore. I’ll try to indicate the deciding factors below

thumbsup 8/10 BattleLore - As stated, the scenarios turn BattleLore into a hammer meets hammer affair. The expansions are poor value, but I, amongst others, purchase them as they are almost required to get longevity out of the game. It is fun to play, but some Lore appears unbalanced, which leaves it to the luck of the draw. 1 hit monsters also increases the amount of Luck involved. With this said, it is probably the least tactical of the three, and consequently, for this gamer, has the most lacking despite having such a big box.

thumbsup 9/10 Memoir '44 – Elegance, fantastic scenarios, great expansions. One of my favourite games of all time with incredible replayability. Play time is short, which allows for a quick match up or a couple scenarios in a row.

thumbsup 9/10 Commands & Colors: Ancients – Wooden blocks and ancient theme make Commands & Colors: Ancients almost feel like you are there (behind the lines) commanding the battle. Skirmish, manoeuvre, manoeuvre, charge, CLASH OF SHIELDS! Commands & Colors: Ancients drips theme and rewards intelligent game play. Always a treat to play, but has a slightly higher learning curve than BattleLore or Memoir '44.

I would suggest:
Hardcore Wargamers probably won’t mind the paper map and feel that the GMT offering of Commands & Colors: Ancients is the best of the bunch.
Eurogamers probably would favour Memoir '44 as it is the simplest to learn of the three, and it’s elegance rewards thoughtful play.
Ameritrashers think more is better right? BattleLore all the way baby!
”Love all” Gamers should find all three games great, although I would suggest to acquire in my order of Memoir '44Commands & Colors: Ancients - BattleLore
Family/Light Gamers may not see the appeal here, and should consider Ticket to Ride
Miniature Gamers who have time and money will likely lean towards BattleLore with all the expansions of course! To quote emmersonpoole below "BL is more of a hobby game its a longer term love affair, set up is longer but its a labour of love." (added 17 Dec 07)


(edited 13 Dec 07 to correct minor typos and add some urls)
  • [+] Dice rolls
L. Stitz
Germany
Lüneburg
flag msg tools
Tee-hee-hee-hee-hi-hihihi-hu-hua-huar-huarrrRRRrrrrrr.
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Anci
GeneSteeler wrote:
Family/Light Gamers may not see the appeal here, and should consider Ticket to Ride


Could you please compare this game to BattleLore, Memoir'44 and C&C: Ancients as well? Because I'd really like to know which is best...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikkel Øberg
Denmark
Virum
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Abselutely marvelous comparitive review, as I own Battlelore but have considered buying C&C:A for a while now (as they have a bargain at my local game store).

I'm convinced now that C&C:A is my next game (right after I finally man myself up to buy El Grande), thank you.

Btw, the url for fixing the bend figures is taken from the official blog:

http://blog.battlelore.com/bent/en/

// G
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Jacobsson
Sweden
Upplands Vasby
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Anci
Very good review.

GeneSteeler wrote:
Dice
...
thumbsdown Commands & Colors: Ancients – Plastic with coloured stickers. I hate them. I’ve been informed you can order replacement wooden dice, but I haven’t seen them in my country.

You can find and order replacement wooden dice at Valley Games.
http://www.valleygames.ca/games.html#acc
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Marshall
United Kingdom
York
North Yorkshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice review.

As an old time wargamer I'm always slightly reluctant to play Memoir 44, sniffily thinking to myself "hah, a kid's game!" in comparison to the AH/SPI games of my youth .... except that win or lose, everytime I play it I have a absolute blast and love it!

It's a great game.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Takacs
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I enjoyed reading your review, thank you for sharing that! I do want to note that the next two expansions for Commands and Colors: Ancients will contain higher quality boards that can be joined together for larger battles.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M B
United States
Athol
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well done. I own BattleLore and C&C plus the Expansion and I would say C&C beats BL hands down.

My biggest gripe with BL is the vast amount of corrections to the cards and creatures that the player needs to play the game correctly. I have sold one copy of BL I owned and would gladly sell my last copy.

I hope you do more reviews like this as it is an easy read and very informative.

Thank you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John O
United States
Louisville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Two men walking abreast.
mbmbmbmb
An excellent comparative review. Having played many wargames with paper maps, I do own a couple sheets of plexiglass. I've found that the C&CA board can be back folded to lie flat enough without using plexiglass. However, the mounted maps in the next two expansions will eliminate the debate.

Again, excellent work.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Schlais
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Anci
Great review. I have been playing BL for about 5 months and love it. this past weekend I bought C&C:A and through 2 plays it's great as well. While the games share the system, they play very differently.

I am really hoping BL starts adding some more interesting scenarios online or through future expansions - I agree, the existing ones are very, very linear with little unbalance. But, with call to arms that can change or good house rules.

Damn! now I am going to have to add M44 to my list o games to buy. I am a huge WWII junkie...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curtis Royal
United States
Humble
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Great review GS.
I own Battle Cry and enjoy it as much as Memoir 44 and would rate it about the same in the listed catagories, maybe a little higher on scenarios only because I know a little more about the American Civil war than WWII.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I will not rest until Biblios is in the Top 100. - Steve Oksienik
United States
Howell
Michigan
flag msg tools
Well I been watchin' while you been coughin, I've been drinking life while you've been nauseous, and so I drink to health while you kill yourself and I got just one thing that I can offer... Go on and save yourself and take it out on me
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Ancients
I've been trying to decide between Memoir and BattleLore for a long time now with a slight lean in the Memoir direction. Your review has made it clear that Memoir is the right choice for me. Thanks so much for the great compare/contrast review!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thirty Thirty
England
Virginia Water
Surrey
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Great review! thumbsup Adds new perspective to long line of reviews and most importantly, NO long and boring details of rules. Well done.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Anci
I'm somehow much more interested in BattleLore than the other ones. I'll try to tell you why:

I'm a fantasy fan, so I really like the theme. I'm also a history fan, but I'm really uninterested in all the wars. I have some common interest in Roman times and WWII times, but the war itself is totally uninteresting to me. As all the battle reconstructions, technical details... In fact of all of these, I'm most interested in Battle Cry, as I'm more interested in American Civil War/Independence War times, than Roman, or WWII.

I'm a collector, so I really like all the expansions available. I'd love to see some other fantasy races in future. For the same reason, I'm generally also interested in BC, M'44 and C&C:A, but not so much.

I'm an (kinda still, kinda ex-)miniatures gamer. I really love Warhammer Fantasy Battles, but it's somewhat expensive for me and I hate all the minis and specialities, I'll never be able to get, just because they're out of print. I also hate GW for they have discontinued several of my favourite armies. I'd like BattleLore to be different, but even now, some monsters are OOP, if I'm well informed. Also I like some generic scenarios and possibility to build your own rosters from an army, you pick up.

And beside all, I just really like the feeling of BL. The feeling of M'44 is just really somewhere else, than I'd like it to be, I haven't had a chance to try the other two yet, but I don't think, I'll like a feeling of C&C:A either, from what I read about it. I can't really speak about BC, as I'd like to like it and I like some games from this period, but that's not any guarantee.

Just another view, hope it'll help someone.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir44 & C&C:Ancients
First off, thank you all for your thumbs, tips and kind comments.

Just to address the BattleLore comment above: I am also a huge Fantasy & Sci-Fi nut. My DVD and book collections are primarily in these genres. I wanted to love BattleLore so much that I bought two base sets shortly after it was released. And in fact I originally rated it a "9" as it is a really fun game to play.

Unfortunately, as I played more, the short-comings (specifically the weak scenarios) really started to grate on me. I still really enjoy the game (hence the 8/10) but it really lacks in many areas compared to the other two (as mentioned above). Which was really the purpose of this comparative review in the first place.

I do agree that it is possible to revel in BattleLore (specifically with the addition of Call to Arms) and consequently, I do believe that there will be, and is, a segment of the populace that will prefer it. I agree that Miniature Gamers may very likely find themselves as part of this populace, which BattleLore & Call to Arms mimics the most.

So my recommendation to Miniature Gamers would probably be BattleLore plus all Expansions. Miniature Gamers by definition have lots of don't they?


Hope that made sense.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Somerton
Australia
North Ryde - Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
The Turtle Moves.
badge
Give a man fire and he's warm for the day. Set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
mbmbmbmbmb
Great review Randy,

I've been tossing-up whether to invest in either Memoir '44 or BattleLore and I think you've just tipped the scale.

Keep up the great work.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Jacobsson
Sweden
Upplands Vasby
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A Comparative Review of BattleLore, Memoir’44 & C&C:Anci
supertopona wrote:
The board of PoG is so thin that I've fear to touch it... I've to admit I never played PoG cause rulebook is really badly written..

Map: Buy some acrylic glass and put on top of the map when playing. It will hold the map flat while at the same time protecting it. There is also a "deluxe map" to buy from GMT Games:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/31094

Rules: There is now a teaching guide in the file section written by Eric Brosius.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/26514

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Anderson
United States
seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Two Time Cancer Survivor - Never Give Up. Never Surrender. -Jason Nesmith from Galaxy Quest (1999 movie)
badge
Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions!
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice review! One thing I would add about components. I have a very hard time telling the sides apart in Memoir44. In lower light the blue and gray figures are hard to distinguish from each other. In Battlelore you have to rely on the pennants to tell the figures apart as they are the same color. At least the pennants are a different shape though. It is easy to tell the gray blocks from the brown blocks in Ancients. Therefore Ancients is these easiest to get a feel for the general complexion of a battle at a glance. Ancients - Battlelore- Memoir44
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
mbmbmbmbmb
turtleback wrote:
Nice review! One thing I would add about components. I have a very hard time telling the sides apart in Memoir44. In lower light the blue and gray figures are hard to distinguish from each other. In Battlelore you have to rely on the pennants to tell the figures apart as they are the same color. At least the pennants are a different shape though. It is easy to tell the gray blocks from the brown blocks in Ancients. Therefore Ancients is these easiest to get a feel for the general complexion of a battle at a glance. Ancients - Battlelore- Memoir44


Thanks for your comment. My Memoir '44 has Gray (German) and Dark Green (Allies/Americans). The moulds are also different and I've never had a problem with the colours of the figures. Of course, I usually play with decent light.

Although, I do agree that BL suffers from it's 'genericness' and it is not easy to tell who belongs to whom at a 'glance' - Which often happens after the Cavalry smack up some flanks. Standards vs Pendants is confusing at a glance.

So, I'd probably go Ancients - Memoir44 - BattleLore when rating "Battle at a Glance"

Again, thanks for your comment.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
mbmbmbmbmb
supertopona wrote:
I'd like to buy C&C ancients but I'm not so sure about the components.. I mean I already own Twilight Struggle (wonderful game) and Paths of Glory... but I think that a sturdy board would help more the playability.. The board of PoG is so thin that I've fear to touch it... I've to admit I never played PoG cause rulebook is really badly written.. for me DoW success is also due to the care for details... DETAILS MATTER!


I've never worried about 'tearing' the board of C&C:A, even before I got my hands on "plexiglass". So please don't let that deter you from enjoying a wonderful game. I'm also a huge Twilight Struggle fan, so I think your 'taste' of C&C:A could be similar to mine, and I believe you would greatly enjoy it. As stated, it is a bit more complex than M44, but well worth it.

In regards to PoG, I wrote a review here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/171023 which could be helpful. The game truly has a very short 'ruleset', which just happens to be exponentially bloated with 'exceptions'. PoG is in a different category than TS or M44 as it's playtime is a solid 8 hours and therefore more focused on "Wargamers" who have a solid day, or a couple nights to play through. I hope that you manage to get a game in, sometime in your life, as it really is a fun and engrossing experience.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Confusion Under Fire
United Kingdom
Warrington
Cheshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Jim Marshall wrote:
Nice review.

As an old time wargamer I'm always slightly reluctant to play Memoir 44, sniffily thinking to myself "hah, a kid's game!" in comparison to the AH/SPI games of my youth .... except that win or lose, everytime I play it I have a absolute blast and love it!

It's a great game.


I had the same feelings being an older wargamer but it seems tempting to try it, after your comment i am swayed towards the playing it side now.

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
stephen
United Kingdom
Burton on trent
Staffordshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree that the scenarios in BL are a little generic, but to be honest I had not really noticed until it was pointed out, I was having too much fun regardless. I think that all these games are open to cutomisation, their simplicity aids the creation of a wide variety of different scenarios, so it is possible to tweak your scenarios any way you choose. Have more or less units, varying victory conditions. I dont believe people should be put off one game or another in this case. There are even scenario generators online for BL and Memoir so you can do your own thing.

I believe that BL is great value for money, giving that big battle feel for a fraction of the cost of a miniatures game. I have memoir 44 and BL and both are great games and I couldnt really choose between them for preference. To me Memoir is the quick fix boardgame, you want to play a game and set up quick and easy. BL is more of a hobby game its a longer term love affair, set up is longer but its a labour of love. I have painted my BL figures, but never been tempted to do the same with the memoir ones.
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
mbmbmbmbmb
emmersonpoole wrote:
BL is more of a hobby game its a longer term love affair, set up is longer but its a labour of love. I have painted my BL figures, but never been tempted to do the same with the memoir ones.


I totally agree and have added the miniature recommendation above quoting part of your post. BL does lack 'out of the box' but with a few 'house rules/tweaks' is probably the easiest to convert into a generic 'miniatures campaign' or league. Is it good enough to convert Warhammer Fantasy Miniature players?

There are currently 200 BGG users who have rated both games with average ratings of 6.42 for Warhammer and 7.94 for BattleLore.

But, if we filter out those non-Warhammer players (ratings under 7.0) we end up with 100 BGG users Warhammer on 7.64 and BattleLore at 8.06. Which does suggest (although probably not significantly) that players who like Warhammer Fantasy like BattleLore more as well.

Now, if we up the bar to 7.5 and above (the Warhammer lovers) we end up with only 53 ratings averaging 8.23 and 8.21 respectively.

If we up the bar to 8.0 averages on 45 ratings at 8.51 and 8.35 respectively.

Going above 8.0 we get into too small of a sample size of only 19 ratings. Averages are 9.21 and 8.13 respectively.

When I calculate the Pearson product-moment correlation coefficient I get a result of r=0.21. So do Fantasy Miniature Gamers indeed like BattleLore more than the rest of us?

This all means nothing without a control... Why not Memoir '44? Sample Size of 294 giving r=0.25! HAH! (So do Fantasy Miniatrue Gamers prefer Memoir '44!? Not significantly so)

You can double check my statistics if you like, but all this blubbering means we can't prove anything! But hey, I'll stick by my recommendation nonetheless!

I'm tempted on repeating this using Warhammer 40k as I'll probably have a bigger sample size. But I'll leave that for another time as I have a luncheon beginning in 25 minutes.


4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Whitehouse
United States
Highlands Ranch
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Bloody brilliant. A great analysis and comparison. Thanks!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Erdin
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mb
This is exactly the sort of review I was looking for between BattleLore and M44. Having C&C:A thrown in also is an added bonus.
Much obliged.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Glen Graham
United States
Carmichael
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Add me to the list of grateful readers who was trying to decide between these three games. Thanks for a great review!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.