steve B
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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sorry im new what do those terms mean?
thanks
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Andrew Carlstrom
United States
San Marcos
California
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uh oh...
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Accipe gaudium ex vestri victorias. Accipe lectiones ex vestri damnis.
United States
38.978164N 76.486881W
Maryland
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Ameritrash typically means games that are big and garish and full of bits and dice. The label is worn with pride.
Eurotrash (in the game sense) refers to games that are classy, reserved, simple, and generally devoid of dice. The label is generally tossed with disdain.
Don't waste your time looking for a clear boundary between the two -- there is none.
Sag.
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Jeffrey Speer
United States
Moorhead
Minnesota
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'Ameritrash' on the BGG usually refers to games from (but not limited to) America. These games usually have heavy reliance on dice, elements of luck, putting theme before the game play, and generally do not include the concept of victory points like many eurogames.
Examples of Ameritrash include the ever-present Monopoly, Talisman, Risk, (I know, it's a French game), and the many games from Games Workshop from the early to mid eighties. I'm sure I'm missing a WIDE swath of games here, but this is only examples. Examples of newer Ameritrash would be Runebound, Arkham Horror.
It's not really a derogatory term, and I think it's used mostly to refer to the kind of game mechanics you'd expect to see, ie reliance on luck, heavy theme, usually no victory points, and includes player elimination (I'm looking at YOU, Titan <3 )
Vegas Showdown is Ameritrash, but it's actually a Eurogame in my mind. There have been some pretty great games recently that I would classify as Ameritrash - Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game, Betrayal At House on the Hill, etc.
Eurogames run the gamut the other way - usually rewards skillful playing, many interlocking game mechanisms (Caylus, anyone?), some to no luck at all, victory points as a measure of who is winning, no player elimination, and generally a pasted on theme. Examples of this include basically every game in the top game lists here. Puerto Rico, Princes of Florence, Power Grid, Carcassonne, Settlers of Catan, many, MANY others.
I've never really heard the term 'eurotrash' here, but I suppose it exists for those Euros that even the hardcore Euro lovers hate. Or possibly as a label from those who defend the honor of the usually overlooked Ameritrash gem.
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Jeffrey Speer
United States
Moorhead
Minnesota
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Cleitus the Black wrote: uh oh...
I second that.
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Here's some official definitions, links, etc.:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Ameritrash
It's not clear in the link, but as Mr. Weeks has pointed out Ameritrashers are the only people that ever actually have fun playing board games.
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Richard Pakpreo
United States
Quincy
Massachusetts
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rayito2702 wrote:
... My sarcasm detector isn't detecting anything. Are we seriously going back to this old crap? Count me out in supporting either camp.
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Rappak wrote: rayito2702 wrote: ... My sarcasm detector isn't detecting anything. Are we seriously going back to this old crap? Count me out in supporting either camp.
Does this help:
[friendly jibe]It's not clear in the link, but as Mr. Weeks has pointed out Ameritrashers are the only people that ever actually have fun playing board games.  [/friendly jibe]
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Marshall P.
United States
Wichita
Kansas
"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution" - Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is grandeur in this view of life, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.
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I call sock puppet
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Mike Kollross
Canada
Carvel
Alberta
Pew pew pew!!!
I'm a member of the Game Artisans of Canada
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**New user backs away slowly while trying not to make any sudden moves**
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M C
United States
Orem
Utah
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Perhaps it is the ghost of Barnes, kind of like "Jacob" in the tv show Lost.
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Andrew Carlstrom
United States
San Marcos
California
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steve B:
Welcome to BGG. I think you'll find it an amazing website with an unbelievable amount of information on board games that will take months or years of surfing to appreciate.
BGG also boasts an incredible community. Like all communities, we have our differences that occasionally flare up. Sorry about my initial response of "uh oh" but you accidentally touched on probably the most divisive of those issues. The "Ameritrash" debates/wars got so intense a while back that a couple user were actually banned from BGG (don't worry that was an exception and it took some serious flame wars for it to happen.)
In any case, to answer your original question, 'Ameritrash' and 'Euro' are two terms used as short hand to refer to game types. (The term eurotrash is used rarely if ever here, you'll see 'Eurosnoot' more often).
The definitions are far from precise (and many games either cross boundaries into both camps or simply defy easy categorization), but most BGG users will recognize the general point you are making when you use the terms.
Ameritrash: games that revolve around a specific theme (usually fantasy or sci fi, and usually involving conflict) and where the game's mechanics are built to illustrate/recreate the 'real world' mechanics of that theme. Rules simplicity, perfect play balance, and short playing times are not necessary, if they get in the way of making the theme 'come to life.' Ameritrash games embrace some randomness and dice.
Euro: games that stress streamlined and clear mechanics. They usually have reasonable playing times, and don't stress conflict. They also don't stress random elements, least of all dice. The term "Eurosnoot" has come about due to some folks perception that fans of Euro games "look down" on other game types.
Wargames: Games that depict (usually) a historical battle, war, or campaign. Often very detailed, and complex (but not always).
There is a lot more that can be said, but I'll leave that to others.
Again, welcome to BGG. Be careful, this can become a full-blown addiction pretty quickly.
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Mike Kollross
Canada
Carvel
Alberta
Pew pew pew!!!
I'm a member of the Game Artisans of Canada
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craniac wrote: Perhaps it is the ghost of Barnes, kind of like "Jacob" in the tv show Lost.
There is no spoon.
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John Burt
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
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Eurotrash
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A Derk appears from the mists...
United States
Portland
Oregon
BGG for the videogame world!!
BGG for the videogame world!!
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the*mad*gamer wrote:
"Eurogames are the worst thing to happen to the hobby since Collectible card Games."
Many players share this sentiment.
Many Euro game players have tried to sell the elite and elegant nature of their games, and no doubt the Euro games do have a few games that might be worthy of your attention but you have to ask yourself what you want out of boardgaming, FUN? or A math puzzle exercise.
That's why I was always such a big fan of the AT'ers, Steve: the unbiased way y'all can make a point...
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Ben Lott
United States
Mason
Michigan
It's time to play the music, It's time to light the lights...
Wocka Wocka Wocka!!
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sbeirs wrote: sorry im new what do those terms mean?
thanks
Just labels.  Inaccurate labels. Steer clear of them and you will find you have a much happier time here on BGG.
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Ken Bradford
United States
Fayetteville
Tennessee
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derk wrote:
That's why I was always such a big fan of the AT'ers, Steve: the unbiased way y'all can make a point...
Oh, come on, now...what statistician would throw that out of a survey for being biased?
"Want to play a super duper exciting game of Twilight Imperium, or a game that smells like a turd sandwich, such as Goa?"
To the OP--welcome to BGG. These labels are nicknames for game genres. When you think "Ameritrash", think of stuff like Risk and Axis and Allies...they've gotten 'better' since then, but that's a start and gives you a good idea of what type of game is being talked about.
It's a form of shorthand, so you can say, "Do you like Ameritrash games?" rather than, "Do you like heavily themed games with plastic bits and a dice rollin'?"
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M C
United States
Orem
Utah
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The debate seems to have something to do with class, culture, personality, and cognition.
Ameritrash strike me as, well, American, and sort of working class.
Eurogames strike me as upper middle class, european (no direct conflict) and tend to be played more by accountants and programmers.
And there are people that move easily among these and other categories.
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Rachee
United States
New York
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The least you guys could do is take a moment from your bemused/outraged partisanship to give this gentleman a thumb for his refreshing Naïveté!
I wanted to call sock puppet!
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Rachee
United States
New York
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Rappak wrote: rayito2702 wrote: ... My sarcasm detector isn't detecting anything. Are we seriously going back to this old crap? Count me out in supporting either camp.
Methinks trash es trash... BLUE RULES!!!!
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Kaworu17 wrote: 'Ameritrash' on the BGG usually refers to games from (but not limited to) America. These games usually have heavy reliance on dice, elements of luck, putting theme before the game play, and generally do not include the concept of victory points like many eurogames.
Examples of Ameritrash include the ever-present Monopoly, Talisman, Risk, (I know, it's a French game), and the many games from Games Workshop from the early to mid eighties. I'm sure I'm missing a WIDE swath of games here, but this is only examples. Examples of newer Ameritrash would be Runebound, Arkham Horror.
It's not really a derogatory term, and I think it's used mostly to refer to the kind of game mechanics you'd expect to see, ie reliance on luck, heavy theme, usually no victory points, and includes player elimination (I'm looking at YOU, Titan <3 )
Vegas Showdown is Ameritrash, but it's actually a Eurogame in my mind. There have been some pretty great games recently that I would classify as Ameritrash - Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game, Betrayal At House on the Hill, etc.
Eurogames run the gamut the other way - usually rewards skillful playing, many interlocking game mechanisms (Caylus, anyone?), some to no luck at all, victory points as a measure of who is winning, no player elimination, and generally a pasted on theme. Examples of this include basically every game in the top game lists here. Puerto Rico, Princes of Florence, Power Grid, Carcassonne, Settlers of Catan, many, MANY others.
I've never really heard the term 'eurotrash' here, but I suppose it exists for those Euros that even the hardcore Euro lovers hate. Or possibly as a label from those who defend the honor of the usually overlooked Ameritrash gem.
The fact that you dare label the almighty Titan Ameritrash is blasphemy... simple blasphemy.
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Flying Arrow
United States
Pennsylvania
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Kaworu17 wrote:
Vegas Showdown is Ameritrash, but it's actually a Eurogame in my mind. There have been some pretty great games recently that I would classify as Ameritrash - Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game, Betrayal At House on the Hill, etc.
Vegas Showdown is Ameritrash? I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that. No dice, no conflict, and wood bits. Auctions and tile placement. How much more Euro can you get?
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Michael Jordal
United States
Austin
Minnesota
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FlyingArrow wrote: Kaworu17 wrote:
Vegas Showdown is Ameritrash, but it's actually a Eurogame in my mind. There have been some pretty great games recently that I would classify as Ameritrash - Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game, Betrayal At House on the Hill, etc.
Vegas Showdown is Ameritrash? I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that. No dice, no conflict, and wood bits. Auctions and tile placement. How much more Euro can you get?
No conflict? I think you are playing wrong. Especially when the Visionary card gets turned up
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steve B
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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thanks for the welcome I did not know there was such a rift between some of these types of gamers
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M C
United States
Orem
Utah
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sbeirs wrote: thanks for the welcome I did not know there was such a rift between some of these types of gamers
The borders between the two countries are *very* porous.
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