The verdict on components: usable, if overall unimpressive, especially for a game so strongly based in bits.
First, lets get a few things out of the way, to clear things up.
The launch of this game is botched. Badly. Perhaps beyond repair.
Among the problems is the way the game was changed from a blind booster format to prepackaged army units.
If anyone out there thinks this is due to market pressure or research or a change of heart by FFG, well ... no.
Mounting production problems of three stooges proportions resulted in a sudden scramble after the game had been delayed an absurd number of times. People got fired.
After an astounding number of delays and months, the product was unusable. Raise your hand if you truly think that they ordered blind boosters, passed the drop dead release date and THEN decided to repackage them and change the format. OK, if you raised that hand, please smack yourself with it. The solution was to do an emergency repackaging of the units that were 'acceptable'. As I mentioned in my component review, even those components are not what I would classify as acceptable, so you can imagine the quality of the units they are holding back to make more acceptable.
The staggered release of factions is not by design, but by production necessity. This renders much of the game unplayable at release except by proxy. You simply cannot play al the factions right now. The way units are packaged - absurd. You pay $20 to get what was a rare and 2 guys. Often the same two guys from the starter. And often the same two guys from one prepack to the next. The units were produced for the original ratio of commons to rares, and they still have truckloads of commons to get rid of. Therefore, rather than you blind purchase and get the duplicate commons, you will get them knowing full well you paid $20 fo a single figure and 2 you will not use and cannot trade because everyone else has the same guys. The increase in the per unit cost (3 guys instead of 4) makes up for the new packaging, and ends up being quite expensive to field the army you want, where originally a few trades from boosters would have done nicely. You want ONE more of a specific dude for your army build? $20. There will be some weird trading as certain units lose value just because how they got packaged with a guy everyone wants.
FFG has done the best they can to keep this game from imploding under its own production problems.
And the really, truly unfortunate thing is that underneath all of the absurd logistical crap that went on, there's a nice game here.
I will repeat this.
Production problems and pricing and the horror of putting together a usable army aside -
the game is good.
The real problem here is whether or not the production problems will overshadow the gameplay.
I have no idea.
The Mutant Chronicles is a rich dark world of technology and magic. I don't care. Whatever. There's dudes with tentacles, hover bikes and fanatical priests. That's cool enough for me.
I was prepared to hate the game. After all of the problems, how could it be good? Hell, there are ERRORS in the rule book, and after this many years of delay, NO ONE bothered to read it?
Again, I'm slipping into production problems, and I really want to get on to game play.
Army building is interesting. There are 3 grades. Let's call the brown, white and yellow, because that's what they are. If a game is 5/5/5, you get 5 brown things, 5 white and 5 yellow. Those things can be either minis, cards or order tokens to let you actually move and fight. If you don't want any cards on your team, go right ahead and take a bigger army. Its theoretically balanced. Theoretically.
On any turn, you activate 2 dudes, then the other guy does and so on until you each run out of dudes or order tokens. With a level 1 order token a dude can do one thing. Like move, or fight, or use a card, or guard. Level 2 allows 2 things, as long as they aren't the same. You can guess what a level 3 does.
Orders can also 'buy back' used cards.
I'm... iffy... on the cards. You use one of your army slots to maybe increase a guys speed. If you want to use it again, you have to buy it back. While the cards are neat and have coolo effects and such, some of them just aren't worth the guy you could have fielded instead. See, that guy is there at least as a meat shield every turn, even if he does nothing. On the other hand, a card may simply never get used. And if it does, it might only be once.
On the other hand, when a card is used to full effect, its very nice. Right now, I'm leaning towards them being 80% fluff and flavor.
Combat is a bastardization of Doom/Descent. Roll some colorful dice as shown on your guys unit card. Take the HIGHEST number only (and man, there aren't many), don't add them up. IF your target is in that range, do damage equal to the little boom icons. The short range simulates the literal fog of war, confusion and such. The range might be too short in some cases, being you can never shoot clear across the fairly small map.
Reroll skills are POWERFUL. Armor is POWERFUL. Special actions on characters are usually interesting, and sometimes, like the cards, useless. Reroll and armor, and to some degree, accuracy (add to a die roll), are the things you want your team to have.
One hugely interesting thing about the starter set is that it comes with stat cards for what was supposed to be the first release block. This means proxy away.
The map is not huge, but movement is only 4 spaces for most units, and it works fairly well. The markings on the map are terrible. Its hard to see if someone is in cover because their base obscures the markings that were hard to read in the first place.
Again, that's a component/production problem. When properly used, cover and guarding and moving from barrier to barrier and having your flying guys screw up the other teams plan work really well.
It feels like really tight forced combat firefighting. It plays super fast. Once an army is constructed, a 3/3/3 skirmish is 15 minutes.
Going up to 10/10/10 fights adds a ton of units. The map gets small and way crowded. You can't so much as choose your opponents as be forced to funnel into certain situations. A double sized map is really needed once you get 10 guys per team out there. You could reasonably run a 10/10/10 team of 15 minis, several of which are double based.
Thank god in this future grenades seem to be a rare technology, or your clumped horde would be taking massive casualties.
Larger armies add victory zones which give bonuses an abilities of various sorts when held, making the game a bit more than beat the snot out of the other guy.
In practical play, we found snot beating more fun and an easier way to win. Victory zones basically become focal points for fights.
So far, games seem fairly well balanced. I would lean more in figs and tokens than cards, but that may change.
Absurd problems aside, I wish FFG all the best in keeping this beast alive. Some big maps, some nice new units (Karak - originally planned as a later expansion has already been released at cons MONTHS before the primary units are to be released now, so who knows what's coming).
If this were a new company, I have very little doubt that this would be the last game they produced.
Will this become a viable game or will it be selling in clearance after Christmas? Especially facing the approaching juggernaut of WoW Minis?
Tough question. If it can be resurrected from its terrible birth, FFG and new line coordinator Erik Lind (of Confrontation et al) are probably the better suited to the task than anyone out there. Only the market will hold the answer, but I'm afraid it won't be good news for the continuation of the product. I hope my hunch is wrong.
I kept looking at this game, put in in and then out of my cart at Thought Hammer, then in and out. I put it in and out again just a few days ago...
I just have a bad feeling about this game. Maybe it is because of the comparison with the old Mutant Chronicles game. Maybe it was all the delays. Maybe it was the weird scale of the figures. Maybe I have ESP.
I don't know. I mean, I love plastic figures in games, but this whole thing has bugged me.
Thanks for the really excellent bit of writing, Paul. It did, as you stated, allow me to get a glimpse behind the scenes.
Sadly, I am getting the same negative feel with the Tannhauser Expansion. How long has THAT been delayed as well?
Another cloudburst like this and the clowns and the band are going to quit my parade.
I think you are right about the background. And I think it raises an interesting point about just where "collectible" starts being more "efficient" than non-collectible. So far, I'm still on the side of non-collectible, but I can see there is price point where that would change.
I'm just frustrated about not being able to actually get my hands on a playing copy (I've seen the flgs display copy). Right now it looks like it will be another week at least. If the negative reviews keep up, I might not end up buying it at all.
FFG really screwed this one up. I predict it will not be the only one.
As a non-collectible guy, I definitely read this as a positive review. I will buy the starter set on day one and do my foamboard-minis thing and get a full set of doods. I can see playing this game a lot. I love tactical squad games (like my cardstock Dreamblade triple set). Counters for doods solves the map markings concern too.
Selfishly, I hope that expansions get released as decks of cards and extra maps. The game shouldn't have to die just because the minis were stillborn.
And thanks for the official reveal. I really hope everybody comes through this okay too. (Well, the designers and artists at least. Marketing and producers can suck it.)
I am in no way officially connected to FFG. Do not consider this any sort of notice by FFG. As with a reporter, I will not say anything revealing my sources. I have already received several PMs asking me who gave me all of the info. I will not respond positively or negatively.
This review is in no way officially endorsed by FFG and due to my respect for them as a company and all involved in the game, I will not divulge further.
It would be nice to have some posting and info flow from Erik Lind on the FFG Mutant Chronicles message boards. There have been no changes in the Figure of the Day for quite a while also.
I agree the game itself is fun with great mechanics, but MAN! who let that rulebook get through like that?
Oh well, I've got my proxies... As soon as some nice figures come out I'll be picking some up.
It would be nice to have some posting and info flow from Erik Lind on the FFG Mutant Chronicles message boards. There have been no changes in the Figure of the Day for quite a while also.
I agree the game itself is fun with great mechanics, but MAN! who let that rulebook get through like that?
Oh well, I've got my proxies... As soon as some nice figures come out I'll be picking some up.
Actually, it is negative compared with your original examination of the starter game set. The crucial change being your comments about why only a small number of figures are being released with the starter set. I had noticed the odd fact that there are only 10 (or so) different figure castings total for the initial release. I hadn't considered why they would do that. If accurate, then it bodes ill for the future of the game. Still, I am planning on picking it up....should it ever actually materialize in Vegas.
However, what I really can't grasp is that someone would prefer to spend a huge amount of $ in blind-boosters instead of having the option to pick up exactly what he wants. Even if they cost 20$ (which I agree is really high) it is much better than spending them on a booster and then realizing you got nothing out of it since all you got was a duplicate rare. I stopped playing CCGs mostly because of that reason.
And claiming that trading would solve this problem couldn't be more inaccurate. How many people are you gonna find in your area that play the same game and have enough miniatures to trade them for you? If it were Magic: The Gathering I could see it happening, but this game has a much more limited target group.
I really can't grasp is that someone would prefer to spend a huge amount of $ in blind-boosters instead of having the option to pick up exactly what he wants.
I prefer making armies based on the limited selection, much like a general realizing the troops he has are not the crack team he requested.
I prefer buying 1 booster for the same cash and having the game group split the cost and contents by faction (even if sometimes someone gets shorted - its just more fun).
I prefer building armies on hand after going to the store, not before hand, and then limiting my selection based on cash.
I prefer the surprise of a rare rather than the choice.
I prefer getting a ton of common goons by accident and seeing if I can shape them into a reasonable force.
I prefer NOT being shown every choice and wanting them all, thereby spending more money, rather than admit I'll never get them all and only buy a few.
I prefer getting some off faction guys just to experiment with and not have to choose an army for them.
I have always preferred collecty blind purchase and have written about it repeatedly.
I prefer making armies based on the limited selection, much like a general realizing the troops he has are not the crack team he requested.
I prefer buying 1 booster for the same cash and having the game group split the cost and contents by faction (even if sometimes someone gets shorted - its just more fun).
I prefer building armies on hand after going to the store, not before hand, and then limiting my selection based on cash.
I prefer the surprise of a rare rather than the choice.
I prefer getting a ton of common goons by accident and seeing if I can shape them into a reasonable force.
I prefer NOT being shown every choice and wanting them all, thereby spending more money, rather than admit I'll never get them all and only buy a few.
I prefer getting some off faction guys just to experiment with and not have to choose an army for them.
I have always preferred collecty blind purchase and have written about it repeatedly.
I still do.
You could have simply said "I prefer to have less choice". That would have been quicker.
You can still do most of the above mentioned statements with open blister purchases. For example, I am running a Heroscape tournament were there are very strict army build requirements (300 points, one hero between 50-150 points, at least 1 unit, etc). I've seen many events where people who have access to all the units limit their available choices artificially. One of my favorite Heroscape events was a draft tournament where each player brought figures only from 3 blister packs and made a draft pool with his opponent. It made for a very interesting event.
My point is, you should be able to have your cake and eat it to. Of course, there is no getting that rush of pulling an ultra rare out of a pack. So I guess you can't have everything.
You can still do most of the above mentioned statements with open blister purchases.
That would cost too much.
I originally had 4 players splitting a case of 6 boosters. We would each get 5-7 guys. This makes a 5/5/5 game very playable The investment beyond the starter (my buy) was $19 per player (through CCG armory, 6 boosters was $76). Plus the two starting factions had the 3 guys in the starter. We all agreed it was fair enough, due to the way the army build occurs and the fact that my son was to play Algeroth, and everyone agreed it was OK for him to get more dudes.
Now, to get your median 6 additional guys per player costs $28 instead of $19. And the brotherhood player (me) and the Bauhaus player don't get to play for months. For my son to play with Warmaster and Gomorian Hammer on his team, he will end up with an army with THREE each of the technomancer and necromutant due to the packaging repeating the guys in the starter. The chance of pulling all those dupes of those two guys in 6 boosters would have been slim.
So, when my groups buy-in cost went up 50% and the waiting for factions came up, everyone bowed out.
You could have simply said "I prefer to have less choice". That would have been quicker.
My point is, you should be able to have your cake and eat it to. Of course, there is no getting that rush of pulling an ultra rare out of a pack. So I guess you can't have everything.
Happy gaming.
I thought I already settled this. Doesn't everybody read my posts? When I am made a Saint of Gaming after I die you'll just have to do a search.
People who like the booster thing don't deserve your scorn or want your pity. Everyone knows people like different games, but if you expand that to "everyone likes different games in different ways" then you'll see your post violated the Second Commandment of Gaming. "Thou shall not harsh on anothers' Geek." You can't explain fun. You can't force fun. Your fun is different from everyone else's.
I knew a guy who did Civil War reenactments. Seriously. Stand in a line and fall down at the right time. I thought it was the lamest thing ever. But he loved it so I didn't say anything. Some people juggle geese.
People who like the booster thing don't deserve your scorn or want your pity. Everyone knows people like different games, but if you expand that to "everyone likes different games in different ways" then you'll see your post violated the Second Commandment of Gaming. "Thou shall not harsh on anothers' Geek." You can't explain fun. You can't force fun. Your fun is different from everyone else's.
Sorry, I didn't realize that I hit the "emit scorn" when I typed my post. I should have been more polite instead of trying to be witty with my opening statement. I was trying to give a few examples of how Geomancer might get some of the enjoyment this game even though it's been changed from blind purchase to open.
Try not to read so much into people's post on the internet. Many times people just type up quick blurbs because they are under time constraints and can't expound.
So, when my groups buy-in cost went up 50% and the waiting for factions came up, everyone bowed out.
That's too bad. As a player who often buys all the figures for a given game system, I know how costs can quickly escalate. It's tough to get a solid group together and buy a system when the price and parameters to buy in go up.
Ya know, they may not be that concerned with the "core" crowd with the Mutant Chronicles movie coming out...even if it sucks, it's still money in the bank for product sales.
I think the movie looks lame. Of course, I'm from the 1st edition players, when Warzone was truly an innovative miniature game!! Second edition was okay, but didn't have the flavor of edition 1.
I like FFG, but I see this newest incarnation as a watered down mass public issue game that is most likely being pushed out before it's ready (hence the production issues) due to the movie coming out.
The movie looks like a zombie flick, not at all filled with the horror, magic and demons that are the essence of the story...
We all know this game has been plagued with more than annoying production delays. I won't question your sources of information. I don't have any "inner ear" in FFG, I'm just an average customer and player. I also agree on many things you pointed : the game is good, the figs from the first set are of so-so quality (there are some cool designs, though)...
But some of your statements are just plain wrong.
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The staggered release of factions is not by design, but by production necessity.
Ok, if you think any LGS would have the storage so sell 20 different fixed boosters plus the starter at launch, raise your hand. OK, if you raised that hand, please smack yourself with it. Hey, I can be funny too ! This is NOT a CMG anymore. Well, the game is still called a CMG, so I'd rather say : it's not a blind boosters game anymore. So compare what is comparable. Did AT-43, or Confrontations AoR release all the units for all the factions at once ? No. Did it have any relation with production problem ? I don't think so.
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This renders much of the game unplayable at release except by proxy.
Wait... What ??? The game is playable out of the starter box. Yes, the starter is ill-concieverd (with a blatant advantage for the Algeroth force, and a wrong build in the rulebook - though it has been FAQed), but still, you can play with it and have fun. If you add the three Algeroth boosters and two Capitol boosters that are released with the starter, you can build two playable 10/10/10 forces, or select a few different armies in the 6/6/6 format. with the figs included in the starter, that gives you 3 gold units, 3 silver units, and 5 bronze units for Algeroth, and 2 gold units, 4 silver units, and 3 bronze units for Capitol. Totally, and positively playable. In fact, you can even play with objectives, so you can taste the entire gameplay (while the skirmish-scale of the starter prohibited the use of objectives, which are a very fun part of the game).
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You simply cannot play al the factions right now.
That's right, though it doesn't make "much of the game unplayable". It just means you have to wait one or two month to get Bauhaus and Brotherhood units (FFG stated it would be released the next month, but I agree we should be careful with such info). But once again, scaled releases occur with ALL non-collectible mini games.
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Therefore, rather than you blind purchase and get the duplicate commons, you will get them knowing full well you paid $20 fo a single figure and 2 you will not use and cannot trade because everyone else has the same guys
This "dupe problem" is only for the bronze necromutant and bronze tormentor (you get one of each in two of the first boosters for Algeroth. You also get a bronze tormentor in the starter set. But it should be added that FFG also designed a 4-figs booster, due in a future wave, with the silver and gold version of both the tormentor and the necromutant). So yes, you'll know exactly how much dupes you'll get. But those will be usable dupes, since they'll be from the faction you choose (thanks to fixed boosters).
And the "single figure" you talk about would have been a LARGE RARE in a random format. That means you only got one every three 20 $ boosters. But that would have been one out of the 8 possible large rares (meaning you got a specific large rare fig every 24 booster...). Of course, those are some of the most useful units for an Algeroth army. Now you can buy them whenever you want. Heck, you can even get TWO of those large rares in a single booster (Alakhai and Golgotha), where you would have been VERY lucky to get them both in 6 boosters in a random distribution. And those are unique figs, so getting dupes of them was useless. Thankfully, FFG put them in the same booster. FFG did it best to configure the fixed boosters. You get less figs overall, but you are sure to get something like a perfect distribution in random boosters (even better than perfect on the rarest side). And you get funnier, better figs overall (since there's a larger part or ex-rares), so your experience of play becomes better even if you get less figs.
The game has indeed been plagued with production problem, but you should go over the fact that it has gone to the fixed boosters format. I understand you're disapointed if you like CMGs, but like you said, there are collectible games due in a near future, so you should should be pleased very soon. Caricaturizing fixed format like you did just limits the credibility of your rants. You notably elude the bad side of random distribution (for example : the most useful/funniest units are the most rare, while ALL the boosters released thus far by FFG include AT LEAST one of the rare, or one large rare, or even both. You almost NEVER get a perfect distribution between factions. In fact, the chances are high that a case of boosters wouldn't have been sufficient for you and your friend to each get a 6 fig playable army in each of the 4 factions.)
The game is out, now, so it should be judged on its real value (and we agree IT IS a good game), rather than from your personal disapointment of the game going from blind buy to fixed boosters.
Ok, if you think any LGS would have the storage so sell 20 different fixed boosters plus the starter at launch, raise your hand.
I never said they would be carried. I said the change was not by choice. That doesn't make it good or bad. Of course they wouldn't be. But it wasn't a choice. Do not imply what I do not write. Something being not by design does not make it a negative, it makes it not by design.
Paptimus wrote:
The game is playable out of the starter box.
Please actually read my words. I never said it wasn't. It 100% IS. I said much of the game is unplayable, meaning I cannot play my Brotherhood faction. At no time did I say the game was completely unplayable. To me, haveing only a fraction from half of the factions available renders much of it unplayable.
Paptimus wrote:
You simply cannot play al the factions right now.
That's right, though it doesn't make "much of the game unplayable". It just means you have to wait one or two month to get Bauhaus and Brotherhood units [/q]
Huh. So its not all unplayable, I just can't play it all...
Again, right now much of the game is unplayable. I stand by that. I cannot field my team. For months. That means to me the game is unplayable. Why? Because I have no army.
This may not be unique to MC, and may happen on every minis game ever released in the history of man. That does not make it untrue.
Paptimus wrote:
This "dupe problem" is only for the bronze necromutant and bronze tormentor
The dupe problem is for my son, as I noted. He had a budget for the game which got increased and now he cannot spend it 'wisely'.
Paptimus wrote:
And the "single figure" you talk about would have been a LARGE RARE in a random format. That means you only got one every three 20 $ boosters.
In this game particularly due to army construction, rare is no better. I'd much rather have a wider choice than rares, as would the rest of my game group. Is that right? It doesn't matter. As I stated repeatedly, this game is no longer under consideration for my game group.
Paptimus wrote:
but you should go over the fact that it has gone to the fixed boosters format.
I'm pretty sure that's what about 1/3 of my review is. You may like that format. It may work for you. It priced me and my 3 players out of the market.
Paptimus wrote:
The game is out, now, so it should be judged on its real value (and we agree IT IS a good game), rather than from your personal disapointment of the game going from blind buy to fixed boosters.
It is my review. A review is personal. If it weren't, it would be a rules outline. You are welcome to write your own. There are many positive and negative reviews of many games, and this review, as I have already stated is NOT negative. Strangely enough, all I do is point out odd facets of the game saying they're doing their best. I'm pretty sure this is informational, not negative.
You have apparently signed up on BGG to defend a game by pointing out that my opinions must be wrong. But they cannot be. They are my opinions. If it is how I feel and I wrote it down, it is by definition correct.
Believe me, you do NOT want me to go over the game as a 'real value', because monetarily, minis games are not a value at all. I don't care how it compares to other minis games, minis games over all are a poor value. Please note that minis games are my favorite. I don't claim to spend my money wisely.
This review is my 84th on this site. This puts me presently as the 13th most active reviewer here. Some are games I love, some are games I do not, some are games with problems.
But I will always - always - give my personal opinion towards a game, and always, people may disagree. That does not make my view wrong.
Firstly, let me say I'm sorry if my reply sounded offensive. I'm afraid I got a little bit carried over. It wasn't meant to be, and like I said, we agree on a lot of points about the game. I'm just tired to see people disapointed in the format change repeating all over the game 'blind boosters was better'. Well, it was better for you, and like you pointed, you're entitled to your own views.
But still, FFG also changed the format of the game from blind buy to fixed boosters in order to please players. Even if most figs were of "unacceptable quality", this isn't a sufficient condition to justify changing the format from blind boosters to fixed ones. FFG also thought players would be pleased by the change (there was a lot of negative reaction to the "collectible" aspect of the game), and in fact, I was pleased. It didn't do the trick with you, that's too bad.
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To me, haveing only a fraction from half of the factions available renders much of it unplayable.
Ok, I misunderstood your words. But I could reply that much of the game wouldn't have been playable by buying a case of 6 boosters. You'd get 24 figs, perhaps 20 different figs with the dupes, and a very limited number of large rares (half of Algeroth's figs being large rares - too bad for the Algeroth player !). That would leave a lot of the 52 figs of the set "unplayable". Much of the refs of the game are not yet playable, but those you can buy allow you to build two decent and funny forces. For sure.
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Believe me, you do NOT want me to go over the game as a 'real value', because monetarily, minis games are not a value at all.
I wouldn't say the "real value" of a game is its "monetary value". But I don't think I spend my money wisely neither when it comes to figs...
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You have apparently signed up on BGG to defend a game by pointing out that my opinions must be wrong.
I can't hide it and don't intend to. I in fact signed up on BGG to react to your post, but I'm a long time reader. I didn't intend to say your opinions were wrong, though : I just thought some things you pointed as facts about the game were not accurate. In my own humble opinion.
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But I will always - always - give my personal opinion towards a game, and always, people may disagree. That does not make my view wrong.
Once again, you're totally right in saying you're entitled to your opinions, and I apologize if my post made you feel otherwise. We have different opinions about the release format of the game, and once again, I'm very glad of getting fixed boosters !
