But don't be fooled by the radio, the TV, or the magazines. They'll show you photographs of how your life should be but they're just someone else's fantasies.
Many people like me like to read reviews about a game. Even if I already own a game I still like to see what others think about the game. Many times I find there are more reviews than I have time to read. I have wanted a way to get a quick synopsis before I read the whole review. This is my attempt to provide this service.
Below you will find a list of reviews for this game with a short description about the review and a link to the full review. I have included a link to the reviewer and all their reviews. I want to promote the reviewers who did all the hard work. In addition, I have included the BGG rank if any that the review has given for the game. I have ordered the reviews base on thumbs. At the end you will see a very short review from my perspective. This is the second in a series of Review Digests. Please provide feedback on how I can make the future Review Digests even better.
"This is hands down the best tactical WWII wargame I've ever played. It avoids a lot of the bad genre tropes and strikes a real good spot on the realism/playability/complexity scale. The game is simple, short, does 2-4 players and isn't overly luck dependent. Every second of the game is tense and you are constantly thinking, reacting, formulating new plans, etc. Even euro players should take a look at this. It might not be your thing, but it will probably make you say "hmm, I see how some folks like that" the same way playing a really great eurogame might garner admiration from non-fans of the genre. "
"I really got into CoH before I even received it. Having played it, I absolutely love it. I honestly wondered if I would like it more than CC. As it turns out, the games are too different to prefer one to the other. Both do the same thing, but in different ways, but both do it well in a way that appeals to my tastes."
" highly recommend the game to veterans and newcomers a like. For veterans, it offers a level of unprecedented interaction. For newcomers it is a serious wargame that is not overly complex and not a huge investment in time and effort. I opened the box and read the rules and played my first game in under 2 hours. The game is fast paced, easy to set up (90 seconds for the first “firefight”), and very little exceptions to the rules. I recommend it as a gateway game. It is a keeper and I look forward to the next expansion."
"While this first offering is somewhat limited in scope and flawed by minor printing errors, it is a great introduction to what I think will become a tremendous line. It captures a great deal of the chrome of other tactical wargames with almost none of the headaches. I'm very excited to see what'll come next. "
"After demoing the game with my 10 year old son (who picked up the rules for this game right away—much more quickly than he did Tide of Iron or CC:E), I asked him if he liked it. He smiled and nodded. “Me too,” I said. “I’m getting it.” Out came the checkbook and I found myself carrying that heavy box around for the rest of the day—without complaint, though. The combination of very high quality components, easily digestible rules, and extremely engaging and tactically challenging gameplay made the decision a no-brainer."
"I'd like to add that CoH is an instant classic - this product will do as much for gaming as The CDG, or even when Squad Leader first came out. ... I think I will get rid of my Band of Heroes stuff and replace it with this and its future modules."
"Conflict of Heroes, however, does what Squad Leader did over thirty years ago and opened up wargaming to a whole group of people who would never have purchased or played a wargame."
"I would highly recommend this game to anyone who enjoys a fast-paced, action-packed game full of heroic feats and nail-biting conclusions. I am really looking forward to many, many years of enjoyment from this game and all of the expansions that will surely follow."
"Overall this is a very fast moving game where even large scenarios should not take more than a couple of hours with experienced players. You can play this with up to four players though this does add about an hour to the play time. I found the large counters easy to read and the game fairly easy to learn with a minimum of downtime between actions. The only downside of occasionally remembering what some of the terrain modifiers where and what some of the symbology meant on the damage counters. I look forward to this game and playing it in the future."
"I am very excited about CoH. For me I'm hoping this will be my chance to catch the Squad Leader wave that I missed. Clash of Heroes is finally the right game at the right time, and I hope you all get a chance to try it."
"I liked it, but I need to play it a few more times before I can decide if it is going to be a star in my collection, or just another box gathering dust. One thing they claim that was not accurate in our experience is the line about teaching it in five minutes."
My Thoughts Most people ranking this game have given it a 10 and I give it a 9. So, you should take my thoughts and the thoughts of the reviewers with a grain of salt. (Most of us are big fans) I would like to see more critics review this game, but there doesn't seem to be many out there. If you enjoy squad level war games and light war games then this might be the game for you. I grew up playing Squad Leader and purchased Advanced Squad Leader the day it came out. I am older now and my mind is weaker so I am moving back to simpler games. I want games that have the same excitement in them that I felt with Squad Leader. So this game is a natural fit for me. There are very few negative comments about this game on BGG but I did find one interesting. Rob Ehlers said, "... Playing a couple of times I just felt like it was more 2 big boxers wailing on each other until one fell over." I don't share his feelings but I could see how some would.
I hope you found this review digest useful. If you can think of things that I should add to the next review digest, please leave a comment and let me know. Thanks.
"I want games that have the same excitement in them that I felt with Squad Leader."
This sums up my reaction to Conflict of Heroes also.
So far the most negative thing I can say about CoH is the length of play for the three-player game is a bit longer than I would like (so far). The interactive mechanism of play leaves the game open to be slowed down if any of the players are prone to "analysis paralysis."
We played Bug River (a relatively big 4-player game) again last weekend, it took about 3 hours to play 4 turns. However, one player was still learning the game so we allowed plenty of time for reactions. I know things will speed up once we get more familiar with all the options you can do.
Also, we were playing with three players. With four players, I know it would be much faster because you can pretty much have both players on one side take their turns at the same time, which should trim the playing time by at least 30%.
I too grew up on Squad leader (yes, I'm that old!)then ASL, and now they're both banished to the loft (too complicated and involved for me to keep re-learning the rules everytime I find a two hour slot for gaming, yes, banished along with ToI, Memoir 44 and Combat Commander- all because CoH is everything I want in a WW2 game in my dotage!
Simple, effective rules (once you've mastered Group Commands) and
real nail-biting interraction when playing with an opponent, and endless tactics to be tried when playing solo (using a variant for hidden units/artillery bombardment- see variants threads)
Large counters for my squinting peepers
expandable
Can create your own scenarios (working on a version of the SL/ASL original scenarion No 1 : "The Guards Counterattack")
My son, who has the attention span of a hyperactive moth on steroids, likes it
Nice, sturdy, components
Great support from Uwe and BG Geekers here
=
Great- best WW2 game since ...the first Squad Leader!
But don't be fooled by the radio, the TV, or the magazines. They'll show you photographs of how your life should be but they're just someone else's fantasies.
Chou4555 wrote:
Can create your own scenarios (working on a version of the SL/ASL original scenarion No 1 : "The Guards Counterattack")
I would really like to play this. I wonder if the next release will have a map with a more heavy concentration of stone buildings. Please post this when you are done. Thanks.
Can create your own scenarios (working on a version of the SL/ASL original scenarion No 1 : "The Guards Counterattack")
I would really like to play this. I wonder if the next release will have a map with a more heavy concentration of stone buildings. Please post this when you are done. Thanks.
If you snoop around on consimworld from before CoH was released, you'll see there's a city map that has many stone buildings and is much more dense, building-wise than the current village map. The map was dropped from the first CoH module when the size of the maps was increased, but Uwe has stated it should appear in a future module.
I must say i really like this digest approach, I know you are using other peoples work, which some people frown upon, but I do see this as a useful service. I dont want to spend ages reading a long review to discover its at odds with everyones elses view and then have to read large numbers of reviews to form a picture of the general opinion of a game. This game is now firmly on my radar and I can read more about it in the longer reviews. Good Work and I hope to see more of it.
I must say i really like this digest approach, I know you are using other peoples work, which some people frown upon, but I do see this as a useful service. I dont want to spend ages reading a long review to discover its at odds with everyones elses view and then have to read large numbers of reviews to form a picture of the general opinion of a game. This game is now firmly on my radar and I can read more about it in the longer reviews. Good Work and I hope to see more of it.
The key here is that it is taking other people's work and adding value to it with proper credit given.
Excellent stuff, I really appreciate the effort put in to do this.
It would be nice if this kind of digest could be autogenerated from metadata entered or harvested when people write a review.
I would like to see more critics review this game, but there doesn't seem to be many out there. If you enjoy squad level war games and light war games then this might be the game for you. I grew up playing Squad Leader and purchased Advanced Squad Leader the day it came out. I am older now and my mind is weaker so I am moving back to simpler games. I want games that have the same excitement in them that I felt with Squad Leader. So this game is a natural fit for me. There are very few negative comments about this game on BGG but I did find one interesting. Rob Ehlers said, "... Playing a couple of times I just felt like it was more 2 big boxers wailing on each other until one fell over." I don't share his feelings but I could see how some would.
Ehlers' comment is pretty much on the money, for example with regard to the not-very-good second scenario, but there is more wrong with this game than that. Ex-ASL players merit little sympathy if they make comments of the sort repeated here, as clearly they didn't earn much from the experience. Reactions to CoH generally demonstrate a surprising lack of penetration, and they are remarkably prolific.
A basic problem we can start with is that the designer doesn't know the difference between pistol and rifle ammunition, such that he's convinced himself that the weaker is in fact the more powerful. This is a disadvantage in a WW2 game. Does this need to be said? A reaction is concern for my fellow Geeks: if they are this easily fooled, they are going to have problems in life unconnected with WW2 hardware expertise. The designer also feels the enormous difference between 20mm and 75mm HE [say German] can largely be ignored, and here the Panzer II can fire the former much faster than the latter is projected by the bigger gun: this is reasonable but it compounds the associated problem. He appears to have mistaken the behaviour of the elements of a squad in tactical and sub-tactical situations, so in this game the LMG and the manouevre element are often separate counters far apart. This doesn't or shouldn't happen in a squad-level game. The hidden unit rule reads like a nightmare and functions like one in play, and yet of course the session reports say their squads unerringly shoot the one hex out of 20 where the enemy was hiding. As in M44, there are no vehicular mgs, but CoH errs the greater by including infantry MGs which fail to perform as they should. A personal feeling mirroring Ehlers' is that the game is dull and boring compared either to ASL or M44. The scenarios of M44 may be dire and silly but they offer great variation: I played the first three scenarios of CoH back-to-back and my interest was maintained in #3 by the tanks alone, but I have no interest in witnessing their crapness ten more times. The oft-cited damage chits were interesting but only inasmuch as they were different. The upset squad that has taken a first hit without suffering concomitant penalties seems to illustrate that point, but that comparison some poor chap made with ASL's Unlikely Kill rule suddenly became very laughable, and suggests once again that CoH players are idiots. Some of the scenario blurb was off-putting. Delivering food to squads had little place in a game such as this, and after the battle is won, are we so simple that we imagine someone asking "who ordered the cheeseburger?"
And no need to go on. The designer seems to me a nice man without any of the design or historical knowledge a gamebuyer might hope for, happy to back the cost of production with failed guesswork, and one who appears to be highly successful commercially. This game is significantly more expensive than War of the Ring.
Here's a YouTube Dave Allen video, try 1:50 to 2:25:-
this games appeals to us simple folks who don't know the difference between pistol and rifle ammo or 20 and 75mm HE, and we don't care. (I'm sure some people who know and care about those things may enjoy the game too, but I can't speak on their behalf). This doesn't make us "idiots", or imply "problems in life unconnected with WW2 hardware expertise".
Anyway, your post was interesting to read as it is a refreshing negative opinion which aren't common here.
Quite refreshing to have a different view from the majority expressed across the threads-so thanks- even though i disagree wholeheartedly.
I do find it odd that you find the game dull- whatever concessions Uwe made have made to the reality of WW2 in order to make CoH a game rather than a deatailed simulation, the game system promotes and interactivity between players that makes it tense, and open to a number of different tactics (so lots of replayability for each scenario), and there's much reaction and counter-reaction, something that the lumpen plodding of the larger ASL scenarios always failed on for me.
But each to his/her own. Thanks for taking the time to let us have your views.
And if you live near London and want to sell CoH.. I'll gladly buy it second hand to get some extra counters and boards!
Quite refreshing to have a different view from the majority expressed across the threads-so thanks- even though i disagree wholeheartedly.
Good. But Pistol v. Rifle means I must be holding aces on kings at least, and I just went all in.
Quote:
I do find it odd that you find the game dull- whatever concessions Uwe made have made to the reality of WW2 in order to make CoH a game rather than a deatailed simulation, the game system promotes and interactivity between players that makes it tense, and open to a number of different tactics (so lots of replayability for each scenario), and there's much reaction and counter-reaction,
Mike Siggins rang the other night, probably due to a rare hiatus moment between work & Essen. We talked for three hours. My worries about over- simplification of games just poured out for the first five or ten minutes, all the while a sage silence on the other end of the line.
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something that the lumpen plodding of the larger ASL scenarios always failed on for me.
HASL is rubbish for this reason, amongst others. To paraphrase Damon Runyon, in the history of boardwargaming there's been no human interest story to rival that of an ASL scenario. An American gent recently sent me "The Motti of Suomussalmi": 15 Russian squads, four tanks and two armoured cars versus four Finnish squads [therefore not a larger one] and bad sub-arctic winter weather. Its sterling stuff and its certainly not detailed.
Quote:
But each to his/her own. Thanks for taking the time to let us have your views.
And if you live near London and want to sell CoH.. I'll gladly buy it second hand to get some extra counters and boards!
I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may spend the money better on Vasey's Unhappy King Charles! , esp. given the GMT discount.
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Dave Allen? May your God go with you!
Onetime ASL tester Martin "Panzer" Newton sold him his new kitchen shortly before he died. He often used to say that he only did jokes about dogs and the Roman Catholic religion [Irish], "and I've done dogs..."
This doesn't make us "idiots", or imply "problems in life unconnected with WW2 hardware expertise".
Yes it does, and you condemn yourself in your own words.
Children read these pages. Lack of care or interest is your right but its no good for them.
This is blatant flaming. It doesn't prove your point or encourage treating you seriously. As I said, it was interesting to read a dissenting opinion, but I don't want to derail this thread any more, so I'll just accept your views without calling you names and walk away.
This doesn't make us "idiots", or imply "problems in life unconnected with WW2 hardware expertise".
Yes it does, and you condemn yourself in your own words.
Children read these pages. Lack of care or interest is your right but its no good for them.
This is blatant flaming. It doesn't prove your point or encourage treating you seriously. As I said, it was interesting to read a dissenting opinion, but I don't want to derail this thread any more, so I'll just accept your views without calling you names and walk away.
you wrote: this games appeals to us simple folks who don't know the difference between pistol and rifle ammo or 20 and 75mm HE, and we don't care.
With your permission, I'll change my Geek comment accordingly.
I'll look out for Unhappy King Charles, along with the Dave Allen Roleplaying/collectible gag card game. I can understand him having a bar fitted in his house, but a kitchen? Ah well, RIP.
But don't be fooled by the radio, the TV, or the magazines. They'll show you photographs of how your life should be but they're just someone else's fantasies.
Reviewer: Tom Hancock (hancock.tom) 
Reviewer: Mark Buetow (Malacandra)
Reviewer: Steve Sallot (Hawkeye 6)
Reviewer: Kenneth Wofford (southseasnurse)
Reviewer: M King (oneoldgamer)
Reviewer: richard glanzer (glanfam)
Reviewer: Bill Wood (Wilhammer)
Reviewer: Don Cooper (DUMASCLUB)
Reviewer: Craig Maksimik (MaxVertigo)
Simple, effective rules (once you've mastered Group Commands) and
