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[constantly updated]
Yes, you read correctly: by now the set of rules me and my group are using is so different from the original ones that it would be almost misleading to use "Leader 1" in the title 
How have we ever gotten so far? We liked the game a lot from day 1, but were disappointed by some of its mechanics causing the races to resemble the real ones rather poorly, while offering very few strategic options. After lots of brainstorming and then testing, we finally arrived to this set of rules, which seems to play out nicely for all kinds of routes, while not being too complex. Enjoy!
The up-to-date self-contained set of rules for you to try out can be found here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/40094
Most important changes in my current set of rules
A.3 Last settings - energy:
feel free to use less 100% of the original value. Anything from 70% works and makes the peloton much stronger.
A.3 Last settings - sprinters and descenders:
apply the sprint ability to the entire hexagon with the sprint icon, and the entire hexagon before an intermediate sprint.
Also, part from these two, up to five more special skills can be used:
a) aggressiveness - +2 spaces when attacking from the peloton (but only once in a stage),
b) time trial - +1 in every move during a TTT or ITT,
c) cobblestones - +1 when starting the move from a cobbled section,
d) explosive riders, during the paid part of their move, can move 1 space over the limit set by a climb's category without risking a crack, at the cost of 1 energy (added to the paid move),
e) stage race specialists (due to better recovery skill) receive 5% more energy or a bidon before every stage.
(agree with the other players how many total abilities you use in 1 race)
B.1 Movement of riders that have broken away
Every move started ahead of the peloton costs +1 energy.
Also, limited blocking: you can't stop where somebody else is standing, but you can go through this space, which will cost you 1 energy point.
B.2 Breaking away
Beginning with the turn leader (holder of the peloton token) and continuing clockwise, each player has the opportunity to announce a breakaway with one or two of his riders. If the jump is with 2 riders, he must immediately pay 1 energy for each of them to surprise the opposition. Then, starting from the turn leader, each player jumps with 1 of his riders, until all announced riders jumped. At any point, a player can decide to cancel his jump, the cost to the rider is 1 energy point. Starting from the next round, all players starting the move before the peloton will lose 1 energy point every round, which simulates their tiredness as they remain in the breakaway.
B.3 Announcing the peloton’s pursuit
Every team has a given number of "team pursuit points" for a stage (derived from the stage profile: +2 for every green tile, +1 for black).
The holder of the peloton token can decide to pursue or not after the die roll. If he pursues (always +1), he spends 1 team pursuit point and can choose to keep the peloton token. If he keeps it, he is allowed to pursue even more in the following rounds (paying 1 pursuit point for 1 space), as long as the peloton moves six spaces or less in total. He may pursue until he spends all his team pursuit points. Everybody loses 1 point at the feed zone and at the top of the red tiles (and you pay 2 energy divided freely among your riders still in the peloton if you actually can't pay this 1 point because you pursued like mad before). Every team loses 1 pursuit token if the peloton moves 6.
B.4 Peloton's speed and consequences:
a) general: riders joining the peloton at the end of the turn (from either side) do NOT pay the peloton energy, unless they are completely overtaken by the peloton,
b) starting in the mountains only:
move 6 - climber pays 2, leader 3, rouleur 4;
move 5 - climber 1, leader 2, rouleur 3;
move 4 - leader 1, rouleur 2;
move 3 - rouleur 1.
B.6 Passing the Peloton Token
If there was no pursuit, the peloton token is passed clockwise to the next player. If there was a pursuit, the peloton leader can choose to keep the peloton token for another turn.
C.2 Falling
Clarified the original rules, after the explanation Alain Ollier gave me.
D.1 Stage race strategy:
a) Advancing just 1 position in GC for a stage win, and none for an intermediate sprint win.
b) Eliminations: cancelled completely. Alternatively, only if finishing more than X turns after the stage winner, X being the sum of number of tiles used, and used mountain tiles, e.g. in a stage of 5 tiles, 3 of these being mountains, X=8.
c) In stage races with 5-6 players, the players can agree to participate with 3 riders, but designate only 2 riders to actively participate in every stage, thus leaving the third one in the peloton. This third rider will burn energy normally and can participate in the pursuit or be dropped because of lack of energy, but cannot attack. Alternatively, players agree that 3 riders participate, but only 2 can be ahead of the peloton at any given moment.
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Sascha Eppelein
Austria
Vienna
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Re: Simulation enhancements
I am still desperately waiting for my copy to arrive, so i was not able to play the game until now (well, in the meantime i know the rules by heart ), but your proposals sound very interesting. Especially for the ones who love to expand the simulation character of nearly every sports game to excess.
One question remains: Are there any rules or suggestions for a time-trial?
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Re: Simulation enhancements
shabear wrote: One question remains: Are there any rules or suggestions for a time-trial?
Not officially, but my head is full of ideas. Just prepare the route and let the guy do it on his own (no peloton). Count the number of turns he needs. Since the best guys will finish in the same number of turns, actually count the number of spaces he lands after the finish line in order to find the stage winner.
Now imagine how cool team time trials will be, with 3 guys participating, and the time of the 2nd finisher taken for both 
This comes in line with my TT-specialist enhancement proposed above. He can gain 2 or 3 turns in a long time trial, but will he be able to defend the yellow jersey in the mountains?
Also, another idea: if we want realistic simulation, we'd have to accept that some are just elite riders, and thus race favourites. I would consider giving him 2 special abilities. For now, I have in mind two candidates:
- Contador (climber + aggressive + TT),
- Bettini (hilly + aggressive + sprint).
Btw don't even get me started on designing cobble races, too many ideas again! But they brought it on themselves by adding the Roubaix velodrome finish to the game  I want to design something with lots of crash/puncture rolling, cobblestone sections, and off course cobble specialist category. This would also introduce another couple to the "superhero" category:
- Cancellara (hilly + TT + cobbles),
- Boonen (flat + sprint + cobbles).
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Andrew Saunders
United Kingdom
Blackpool
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Proposals 1 and 3 look good. Nice ideas
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Andrew Saunders
United Kingdom
Blackpool
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Re: Simulation enhancements
as does 5
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Re: Simulation enhancements
We started to play a Tour and not a single race.
First of all we included points for mountain and sprints during the stage. The mountain points differ for the difficulty of the mountain and on a flat the last sprint is also the final one. This makes the game much more interesting as you not only have to go for the overall time but also can concentrate on mountain or sprint points or even the team classement.
We have a system to decide which player is the overall winner after six stages like the following:
-25 winning points for the overall leader with the best time.
-15 winning points for the cyclist with the most points for mountain sprints.
-15 winning points for the cyclist with the most oints for sprints.
-15 winning points for the team with the best time
-5 points for every stage win.
After 3 stages played on the last sunday i can safely tell you that we all love the strategy and tactics that show up during a stage race.
I'm not so keen on the puncture rule - something like chance cards would be better in my opinion.
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Re: Simulation enhancements
SaFe wrote: We have a system to decide which player is the overall winner after six stages like the following:
-25 winning points for the overall leader with the best time.
-15 winning points for the cyclist with the most points for mountain sprints.
-15 winning points for the cyclist with the most points for sprints.
-15 winning points for the team with the best time
-5 points for every stage win.
Nice idea. I would only add points for 2nd and 3rd in the GC, and change the ratios slightly, if you consider that all of these are strongly correlated (e.g. the best sprinter will have grabbed a couple of stages). Maybe this helps:
http://www.letour.fr/2007/TDF/COURSE/us/reglements.html
SaFe wrote: I'm not so keen on the puncture rule - something like chance cards would be better in my opinion.
Why not? Just uses the dice used in the game already...
The risk is small (1/12*1/3 = 1/36), the price is low. Punctures happen all the time in the peloton, and famous races have been lost by punctures in the wrong place/time
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Andrew Saunders
United Kingdom
Blackpool
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Looking again at number 5. You could refine the breaking away bonus by staggering the amount of energy points awarded. As an example...
1st away 4 extra energy, 2nd away 2 extra energy and 3rd away 1 extra energy point ....or.....
Roll the peleton die and factor in -1 for 1st away, -2 for 2nd away etc. This introduces a random element but in both cases adds some pressure deciding who/when will go first.
Any thoughts on this?
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Thx for the comments so far guys!
Andrew: your last one is interesting, but:
- IRL the one initiating the break does tire the most,
- I wanted to pick out a couple of guys who attack again and again (Bettini, Voigt etc.).
In the meantime I've been working on more cycling personalities. Trying to cover all current stars. The whole list thus far:
A. Superstars:
- Contador (climber + aggressive + TT),
- Bettini (hilly + aggressive + sprint),
- Cancellara (flat + TT + cobbles),
- Boonen (flat + sprint + cobbles).
B. Stars, per category:
- Valverde (climber + sprint),
- Savoldelli (climber + downhill),
- Simoni (climber + downhill),
- Cunego (climber + aggressive),
- Sastre (climber + aggressive),
- Evans (climber + TT),
- Leipheimer (climber + TT),
- Sanchez (hilly + downhill),
- Chavanel (hilly + downhill),
- Freire (hilly + sprint),
- Voigt (hilly + aggressive),
- Rebellin (hilly + aggressive),
- F. Schleck (hilly + aggressive),
- T. Dekker (hilly + TT),
- Rogers (hilly + TT),
- O'Grady (flat + downhill),
- Ballan (flat + cobbles),
- Flecha (flat + cobbles),
- Petacchi, Cavendish, Zabel, McEwen (all flat + sprint).
C. Rest, per category:
- Menchov, Devolver, Kloeden (climbers),
- Kirchen, Gilbert (hilly).
D. Some stats:
flat: 9
hilly: 11
climbers: 11
downhill: 5
sprint: 8
TT: 6
aggressive: 7
cobbles: 4
PS
World Championships anybody?
ITA: Bettini/Rebellin, Cunego/Simoni/Savoldelli, Petacchi.
ESP: Freire, Valverde/Sastre/Contador, Sanchez.
BEL: Gilbert, Boonen, Devolver.
GER: Voigt, Zabel, Kloeden.
AUS: Evans, McEwen/O'Grady, Rogers.
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Re: Simulation enhancements
I thought i give a impression how the game suceeds in giving a "feeling" of real cycling.
First of all we played the game with four people - each of them took possession of one team.
The cyclist are rather unstable, i think the idea with differents parts for every cyclist miniature was not so good.
After playing two single stages we decided to "enhance" the game by giving victory points not only for the cyclist with the overall best time after six stages, but also for the winner of the mountain and sprint
classement. Additionaly we add the time for all three cyclist in every team to name a winner for the overall team standing.
This works perfectly for our group and adds a lot of tactic and strategy to the game in our opinion.
It is now not only important to finish the line at first, but also try to save energy for following races. Additionaly players now can conentrate on the victory points for mountain and sprints.
We placed some markers beside the tiles to show where mountain points or sprint point are give out during a stage.
A team consist of a flat stage expert called rouleur, a climber and a allrounder - named Leader in the game. Also you can give two extra attributes to two of your three cyclists. A +1 on sprints and a +1 downhill, but it is not allowed to give both boni to the same cyclist.
The first stage was made up by the following tiles:
Start:Green3,Green6-1.Sprint-Orange5,Orange3,Red6-1.Mountain-Black5,Black5,Green4,Green4-2.Sprint-Finish:Green9-3.Sprint
For those who own the game not, the colours of the tiles mean the ground of the stage:
Green is flat, Orange uphill, Red is mountain, black is downhill.
The race started and during the first two rounds nothing happened, no one tried to escape the peloton, but than
- as the first sprint came into sight, the rouleur of the green team started a attack, followed by the white rouleur and the leader of the blue team.
Spending additional energy for the sprint the white rouleur managed to grab the points for the sprint, followed by the green rouleur and the blue leader. The rest of the peloton closely behind.
The white rouleur decided to save energy and made only "enery neutral" moves up the hills(orange tiles), so he was soon catched by the peloton but managed to win a second place on the sprint (5-3-1 winning points for the sprints). As this was the primary goal it seemed o.k. to save enery and not try to escape the peloton, especially as a mountain was in sight on which ground type the white rouleur has not the best movement points.
The situation now:
Green rouleur and blue leader tried to climb the hills by swapping positions to save energy (slipstreaming). With this tactic both suceeded in staying in front of the peloton while leaving the hills behind them and started the climb up for the mountain points.
Here the better movement points of the blue leader showed up and soon the green rouleur had big problems to follow. But both tried to avoid a risk (a risk means the mointain tiles have "difficulties" - if a cyclist wants to move his normal movement plus more than the difficulty he takes a risk) If a player not suceed at rolling the dice below the risk numer he must pay three times the enrgy points which can become very expansive!
Meanwhile two climbers (blue and yellow) inside the peloton attacked to win the points for the mountain. Both soon left the green rouleur behind but were not able to catch the blue leader.
The points for the mointain were won by the blue leader, followed by the yellow climber and the blue climber.
The three cyclists now has a good distance to the peloton in which the white and green player tried to pursuit but were blocked from the blue and yellow players on their turns.
The distance stayed almost the same during the downhill tiles, but then the blue climber had to take a risk (a risk downhills can become a fall)and clearly failed. A fall and so he was soon catched by the peloton.
The both cyclist in front now worked together to stay ahead, but attacking white rouleur and yellow rouleur soon catched up with them, so we now had a 4 cyclist leading group as the second sprint of the day came into sight.
The white rouleur again was able to win the sprint followed by the yellow rouleur and the blue leader.
Now it became clear that the yellow climber had problems to follow on flat ground and so he was dropped from the leading group.
Meanwhile in the peloton two cyclist (white climber and blue rouleur) had a puncture and were not able to follow the peloton anymore.
As the finsih line came in sight the cyclist broke of their short-time alliances and every one of them tried to finish the line first.
The sprint was won by the yellow rouleur followed by white rouleur and the blue leader.
Two "rounds" behind them came the peloton with all other cyclist and one additonal round two unlucky cyclist with the punctures.
Summary ot the first stage:
Overlall leader:
Yellow rouleur
Sprint Points Leader:
White rouleur with 13 points.
Yellow rouleur with 8 points.
Green rouleur with 3 points
Blue leader with 2 points.
Mountain Points leader:
Blue leader - 5 points
Yellow climber - 3 points
Blue climber - 1 point
Overall Team:
Yellow team
I hope some of you enjoy the description and hopefully understood my rather bad english.
I think the game has great potential if played in a Tour style.
Surely you can play the game out of the box without intermediate sprints and moiuntains points, but our gaming group thought this a very good "expansion" of the rules. It definately adds strategic and tactical flavour to the game.
For the single race i would rate it 7/10
For a stage race 9/10.
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Nice one, let us know how it continues!
Our group played the first really big game yesterday. It took 4 hours, and was won by the early breakaway. But since it's so unrealistic, it made me read the manual again, and I discovered like 7 rules we misplayed, the most important one being: most things (e.g. number of free moves) counts only for the kind of terrain where you start, but one - mountain category finish - counts for the part of move which is done on this very tile, see the picture on page 13. So watch out guys!
This morning I simulated the exact same race (but with correct rules) once normally, and once with every rider staring with 80% of the energy only. In the first case the early break makes it every time, in the latter case only if they agree to be very nice to each other up to a certain point, plus they have a guy burning his ass off for his leader (both happen a lot IRL). No if you remember that the riders can transfer up to 15 points to the next stage in stage races, this is even more dangerous to the game balance.
Thus, my next enhancement, in order to improve the power of the peloton:
everybody starts with only 80% energy!
PS
I will constantly update my first post to show the full version of the set of rules I propose.
[edit]
Added to the first post the newest peloton version, and prize money based on:
http://www.letour.fr/2006/TDF/LIVE/docs/reglement_2006_us.pd...
http://www.letour.fr/2008/PNC/COURSE/us/reglement_particulie...
http://grandeciclismo.gazzetta.it/clists/cfiles/2/regolament...
[edit]
Proposed new elimination rule and new GC calculation rule.
Uploaded the map for Giro di Lombardia (hopefully appears soon).
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Newest additions: set of rules for cobblestones, and time trials.
In the file section, you will find my designs of Paris - Roubaix, Giro di Lombardia, and Milano - Sanremo, all made as adequately as the game allows, and tested possitively for realistic outcome. I would be extremely interested in any reports if you guys actually try any of these, since my concern will now be directed to stage races for a while.
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Stephan Gauss
Germany
Hamburg
Unspecified
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Hej Daniel,
that are some very good ideas for the enhancement of an already quite good game in terms of realism.
Espescially the cut of energy points to 80 % is IMHO very important. We never had one cyclist left in the peloton when it comes to the finish line. Which means, that there´s too much energy in the game (EPO? ).
But i´m not quite shure, if your idea of higher energy "prices" for the peloton in the mountains, is helpfull. The Peloton is already penaltisized by taking the longest way round the bends (the dotted lines), so it will normally loose a lot of time in comparison to the climbers, which will always take the shortest ways.
What I disliked the most in the original rules set is the penalty for climbers in flat land. That is very unrealistic. It has been already written in one of the other threats , that this penalty is not that harsh, because climbers are allowed to spend as much energy-points as they like, to "fight through" the plains  , whilst rouleurs are much more restricted in the mountains... Well, that is a point, but what counts at least is the outcome of the races played. And I saw it several times, that climbers lost a lot of time (like 6 or 7 rounds) in races or stages with a quite flat profile (from the inside of the game box). Sure, the players could have avoided that by saving points earlier. But anyway in a flat race, that is a too unrealistic outcome.
So what can you do? Strengthen their abilitie in flat land from 1 to 2 would possibly bring the whole game out of the balance...
Maybe it helps, if you bring another abilitie in to the game: STAMINA. That would mean that all riders have 80 % of the normal energy points (like you propose), BUT you have some riders with the special abilitie STAMINA, meaning they get a 100 % energy. If you like to have a climber that could contest for a tour win, give him stamina.
Anyway, I´ll try all of your proposals in my next races and will report how they "feel"
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Huhu,
some nice ideas there!
About climbers losing on flat: it was my concern too. But from all my simulations it seems that with 80% energy, plus penalizing rouleurs in the peloton in the mountains, it improves a lot. A rouleur in a breakaway on flat moves 3+2=5 for 3 energy (and he absolutely cannot afford to move quicker, because otherwise he dies, plus his leader loses slipstream), a climber in the peloton moves on average 4 or 5 for 0 or 1 energy, and the peloton goes almost the same route as the breakaway. Yes, the climber will lose 3 or 4 turns, if there was a nice cooperative breakaway. But with my rules the rouleur will lose all his energy in the following mountainous stage just managing to hang on to the peloton, and finish 7-9 turns after the stage winners.
Thus, I like climbers having 1 free move on flat. With two, it would be to easy to abuse the whole realism and just attack on the flat and stay in your rouleur's wind shade until the mountain comes. Now, it is suicidal for a climber to attack on flat. Which is realistic.
Summing up: with 80% energy, the peloton gets stronger. In the mountains, it's not equivalent to the grupetto any more. You can stay inside the peloton and wait for the others to get tired before you make your decisive move. So I need to penalize the rouleurs, because they are trying to keep the climbers' wheel inside the peloton.
1 guy with 100% stamina? Interesting! And realistic, since there are some stage race specialists out there, who shine in the third week of any Grand Tour because of great recuperation. But I wouldn't go for more than 85-90%.
Grobian wrote: Anyway, I´ll try all of your proposals in my next races and will report how they "feel"
Please do!
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Stephan Gauss
Germany
Hamburg
Unspecified
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Hej Daniel,
you might be right with the climbers on flat. That really seems to work better with your rules set.
Still I think the peloton should be faster, cause even with your rules set, it happens that the peloton turns into a grupetto. Still every rider will normally take the chance to break away from the peloton when it goes downhill. Cause the peloton moves quite long ways through these tiles, while everybody else can move four (plus some extra moves) on the shortest way.
So it might be an idea to speed up the peloton every round it moves without any riders. Which would mean + 1 (like in the original rules set) in the first move, + 2 in the second move, + 3 in the third an so on. But as soon one rider is in the peloton it moves with the normal rules.
I´ll try this, maybe then the peloton will put some more pressure on the breakaways...
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Grobian wrote: I´ll try this, maybe then the peloton will put some more pressure on the breakaways...
Let me know how it went!
2 comments only:
- I still hope 80% energy will make it wise to stay in the bunch sometimes,
- about downhill: remember that this really is the only terrain where single riders are much quicker than the peloton in real life. people can break away at will, or catch up after a puncture or fall. thus: harsh but very realistic!
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Update after another session:
- apply the sprint special ability to the entire last hexagon, otherwise it's useless.
The 1st post is up-to-date.
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Uisge Beatha
Scotland
http://www.thekanofoundation.com/
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Garf wrote: Update after another session:
- apply the sprint special ability to the entire last hexagon, otherwise it's useless.
I did wonder, as it seemed very low key, but that was't our experience - instead it won the game for the sprint specialist after the exhausted climbers had finished just short of the line.
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Celtic wrote: Garf wrote: Update after another session:
- apply the sprint special ability to the entire last hexagon, otherwise it's useless. I did wonder, as it seemed very low key, but that was't our experience - instead it won the game for the sprint specialist after the exhausted climbers had finished just short of the line.
I guess it all depends on your experiences. For now I'll keep testing with the entire last tile, but I'm willing to listen to more feedback.
Btw, my complete set of rules incorporated into the normal ones is now to be found here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/37544
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Yesterday I made the 1st race with the rule of 80% of energy and the rising costs of porpostos by Graf:
Moves 6 - climber pays 2, leader 3, rouleur 4;
moves 5 - climber 1, leader 2, rouleur 3;
moves 4 - leader 1, rouleur 2;
moves 3 - rouleur 1
The experience was very good. Congratulations! This solves the problem of the peloton that I mentioned in other post.
The experience was the 1st stage in Austria again (I will place the file of graphics and hexagons used). Shortly before a rise in 3rd category there was a target of points. 2 roller fought for these points and 1 of them continued to try to escape. Was caught by the peloton in the middle of the climb. These 2 had great difficulty in coming to an end. However the race was won by the blue trolley that is kept in the peloton until 2 hexagons before the goal. It remains to note that this step was almost flat which shows the usefulness of this upgrade of rules.
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Re: Simulation enhancements
There is another rule that I can suffer a change. When we do a tour of several steps the maximum energy that can move to the next stage is 15. And if you use the rule of 1 / 3 and not be limited to 15? You can open more strategic plan.
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Re: Simulation enhancements
paubo wrote: There is another rule that I can suffer a change. When we do a tour of several steps the maximum energy that can move to the next stage is 15. And if you use the rule of 1 / 3 and not be limited to 15? You can open more strategic plan.
Not limitting the energy transfer to 15? Yes, it's true it opens tactical possibilities, I'm just afraid the biggest one of them is to stay on everybody else's rear wheel for all stages, and then gain 200 energy and pay for 6 moves each turn during the last stage 
I'm happy you had a nice game!
Maybe next time your climbers should be more courageous on the uphill to make the roulers' life even tougher
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Stephan Gauss
Germany
Hamburg
Unspecified
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Hej Daniel,
the last weeks me and my group tested your simulation enhancements and they work fine!
But I added two more twists to them.
1. Peloton Movement
I´m quite fascinated of the ideas which "asurinach" posted here
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/36992 (in spanish). His main point is, that you can accelerate the peloton not only by one when you get head-of-the-peloton-token, but by two steps if your whole team (three riders) is in the peloton.
Also only the team holding the token pays for this extra acceleration (and not he whole peloton): one energy point if the acceleration is one, two energy points if the peleoton is accelerated by two.
Eventually if the team with the token accelerates the peloton only by one, every other team with riders in the peloton can give a second acceleration step to the peloton (by paying energy points fo it)
That sounded quite realistic to me and it works fine. Now it makes sense for a team to "work" in the peloton and to "chase" breakaways.
But I have to admit it is a bit fiddly to combine this rules with your extra rules concerning energy-loss on mountain tiles. That looks like this:
Peloton starting on mountain tiles
Speed 3: Rouleurs pay 1
Speed 4: Rouleurs pay 2, Captains 1
Speed 5: Rouleurs pay 3, Captains 2, Climbers 1
Accelerate peloton +1: every rider in the accelrating team pays 1 extra energy (to the energy-costs above)
Accelerate peloton +2: every rider in the accelrating team pays 2 extra energy (to the energy-costs above)
2. Energy in stage-races:
The energy management from stage to stage is quite un-dynamic. So our group plays it like this:
The saved energy is halved from one stage to the next (fractions rounded up). But there is no limit for the energy points you´re allowed to save (like "paubo" proposed). And riders can spend energy even below zero, but for every point spent extra (below zero) they´ll loose two points from the start energy of the next stage.
Exampel:
Rider 1 saved 19 energy, so he will get a +10 energy bonus for the next stage.
Rider 2 spend energy to -3, so he will get a -6 energy malus for the next stage.
Now it makes more sense to save energy by "hanging around" in the peloton (and taking the risk to loose lot of time).
Further rules testing
All in all I still think that there´s too much energy in the game (even with your 80 % rule). With the "saving-rule" above, it should be possible to reduce the starting-energy to 50 % of the amount which is given by the milestones. That would mean that you have to save energy for some stages if you want to start a "major attack" or a long and lonely breakaway. I´ll try that and let you know.
Merry Christmas and all the best!
Stefan
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Cool stuff!
Below I'll just post some issues that I think might (or might not) become troublesome, so watch out when testing. Let me know!
Grobian wrote: 1. Peloton Movement
I love the aspect that the rusher has to pay himself - very realistic! But, in many race (profile-dependent) people are already reluctant to attack when you cut their starting energy to 80%. With this one, the peloton could become a beast! Also, it changes a bit the feeling in the game, because people will look at each other instead of chasing (a bit like the provost in Caylus?), which is actually what happens a lot in cycling! But still, I'm eager to hear some session reports!
Grobian wrote: 2. Energy in stage-races:
Very nice idea! However, hard to predict what the winning strategy will be: going down to more or less zero during every stage (because it's a shame to lose half), or saving up for the decisive moment...
Grobian wrote: Further rules testing
All in all I still think that there´s too much energy in the game (even with your 80 % rule). With the "saving-rule" above, it should be possible to reduce the starting-energy to 50 % of the amount which is given by the milestones. That would mean that you have to save energy for some stages if you want to start a "major attack" or a long and lonely breakaway. I´ll try that and let you know.
I've been testing with 70% and it works in LONG races (it just comes down to optimizing on every single corner, and not so many people are so fascinated by making it pure maths). In short ones, if you give them 50%, everybody will suddenly have 10-12 in total. Hmmm...
I will keep in mind all 3 ideas when our group plays the first really big stage race in January (13 stages of a special Tour de France edition which is a tribute to the most memorable TdF moments). Hopefully, it will reveal further spots where the game could use some more tuning...
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Brent Carter
United States
Longwood
Florida
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Re: Simulation enhancements
Thanks for all the great discuss on on this game. I just got mine at Christmas and have played 1 game solo. I'm really looking forward to getting a real game in soon. I have a question the answer for which will probalbly be painfully obvious after someone provides it. In a single race what is the point in an early breakaway? Do you guys set up sprint points in a single race or is it possible for a breakaway to stay ahead of the peleton for a from early in the race to the finish? I'm using the 80% energy rules.
A quick rules question, do riders in diagonally adjacent spaces block the track? I decided no but I'd like to know what others think.
Hopefully I'll be able to contribute something soon.
Take care,
Brent
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Posted Wed Nov 5, 2008 11:40 am
