stephen Koehler
United States
Matthews
North Carolina
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We are having a discussion about 22.2. I am the Pope and I am asking the Haps to DOW on Venice so that I can intervene. Assuming he does, can he, after I intervene, say nevermind to the war and choose not to be at war with the Pope? That is m understanding. But there is a section of 9.6 that says that they ARE at war, and the Haps player claims that:
"But on 22.2, it says that the country at war with the minor upon its activation has the option to declare war on the activating major, not to declare peace. So, if the sequence is: I declare war on Venice, you intervene causing us to be at war (as per 9.6), then 22.2 kicks in, and I would have the option to declare war -- but I am already at war with you so I have no option and the "if I decline" consequences would not follow. "
Who is correct?
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michael heitz
United States
El Paso
Texas
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You are. You have to read 9.6 & 22.2 together.
22.2
2. Declarations of War: A power currently at war with this minor
power has the choice to immediately declare war (at no cost in CP)
on the major power that is activating the minor power. That power
may only declare war if none of the “restrictions at all times” listed in Section 9.6 apply. If the power chooses to declare war, add an
“At War” marker to the appropriate box on the Diplomatic Status
Display. If the power declines to declare war, any units of that power
occupying spaces controlled by this minor power are returned to
the nearest fortified space (that is not under siege), as described in
Step 3 of the Peace Segment Procedure (9.3).
5. Remove “At War” Markers: Remove all “At War” markers
from this minor power’s column on the Diplomatic Status Display
(this minor power’s diplomacy is now controlled by their major
power ally).
22.2 has the entire sequence you go through when you activate a minor power as your ally. Follow all 5 steps. Reading 9.6 by itself is misleading. 9.6 could have a line added to clarify that if there is an intervention by the Papacy in a DOW on Venice, then the 2 major powers are at war "unless the declaring power declines to DOW on the Papacy". Your friend's interpretation makes 22.2 meaningless. Also, look at the FAQ/Errata that clarifies that the English home card cannot be used to DOW on Scotland if France & England are allied, because being allied is one of the "prohibitions at all times" for declaring war. This is in harmony with 22.2.
Basically, when he declares war in Venice and you intervene, he has to decide if he wants to be at war with you (and your now ally, Venice) or not at all...war is not automatic as implied in 9.6.
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Ed Beach
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
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Interesting interpretations. I haven't seen this before. Let's go back to 9.6:
"5. DOW on Venice: If a declaration of war is made against Venice,
the Papal player may immediately spend 2 CPs to intervene. If the
Papacy intervenes, Venice is activated as a Papal ally (Section 22)
and the Papacy is now at war with the declaring power."
Now it is true that you have to follow the Activation Procedure in 22.2 to get Venice activated as an ally. But the statement I have highlighted in bold above is what must be enforced. I can see how you can interpret it the other way if you follow 22.2 step-by-step, but the intent is the other interpretation (i.e. that you go through the Activation Procedure and then put the Papacy at war with that power).
The "DOW Venice to help the Papacy out strategy" is already pretty widespread. Allowing that power to end this whole sequence still neutral to the Papacy would just cheapen it even further.
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stephen Koehler
United States
Matthews
North Carolina
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OK can you explain what 22.2 means? How could you decline to DOW then?
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Ed Beach
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
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22.2, Step 2 is for the situation where a power (I'll refer to it as "the aggressor") is already at war with a minor ... and THEN a major power plays an event to activate it. In this situation the major power activating the minor power is taking the minor under their wing and offering their protection. If the aggressor is going to continue to fight, he must now take on the minor and their new protector. But the aggressor has the choice to back down.
In your situation there is no previous aggressor. So Step 2 of the full procedure listed in 22.2 should be skipped.
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