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Subject: A negative take on Android. rss

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Brian Poe
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Something that would have been purple if there was light to see it by scuttled across the floor.
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WARNING: This is a VERY negative review of Android. I normally do not write reviews. However. After going over the information on BGG. I decided this was a game I would like. I was INCREDIBLY wrong. This information needs to be here for people to hear another side before they buy an expensive and LONG game. I am not attacking those of you who like this game and if you can tell me what I can do to enjoy this game I would really like to enjoy it.

Please note: I will not go over any rules. You can find them out elsewhere. This is intended for people who want a second opinion before you buy this game.


How I started...

I heard about android shortly after it was announced. I LOVE Arkham Horror, which is a close comparison for this game and by the same designer. I was excited and anxious to learn more. I read the reviews posted on this site. I even read the rules. I got more and more excited about this game. As soon as it arrived in my FLGS I raced out and bought it! I brought it home and re-read the rather large rulebook extra careful (as I have made mistakes playing a game of this scope before due to the complexity of the rulebook.) I was still excited about the game. My group gathered and I explained the rules. EVERYONE at the table was excited. We were all chomping at the bit to get out there and solve the murder and unveil our plots! It all went downhill from there.

Components

The components are stellar. Standard Fantasy Flight fare for high quality tokens and great artwork. I'd give this game a bit higher rating for the bits than other FFG games due to the size of ALL the cards being a standard playing deck size. I LOVE Arkham Horror and all, but I HATE those tiny cards. So... kudos to FFG with that.

Rules

The rules book is as beautiful as the rest of the game. It really gives you a taste of the intended flavor.

I have always felt that almost every FFG rules book is written in a rather confusing way. If you slog through it in one shot it reads easy enough, but finding things again is almost impossible. I also have found that in this rule book there is a lot that isn't explained. A great deal of chits and cards bring things into the game that are not explained in the rules, and while that's fine. Before we started we had to try and decipher what all these extra pieces were for... Did we miss a page? Did I just get excited and quit reading? Going back to the rules provided nothing (and wasted a lot of time.)

An example:

Here is a pic of most of the NPC chips.



Keep in mind that the backside has no information and only has an icon indicating the NPC is dead.

Hats off to the one of you who knows which one is Simmons.

Where to find this information? On the BACK of your character sheet which has tokens on in keeping track of valuable information during the game.

What do we do with them? NOTHING. Until one of the cards brings them into play and makes them do something.

This game is VERY heavily card based and the cards break the rules ALL the time and bring things into the game that otherwise have NOTHING to do with the rules. Finding them in the box is confusing as hell and (after scouring the rules for 15 more minutes) we finally agreed to hope that we were not just missing something huge.

Despite these setbacks, the entire group (including me) was still REALLY excited to play.

Gameplay

There is a LOT going on in this game. This is a victory point game and there are several ways to go about getting victory points. You have three ways of accomplishing this.

1. The murder

You are given a Guilty hunch and an innocent hunch. One of the actions you get to perform is drawing a random chip and placing it on a suspect. To do this you have to get evidence. The evidence bounces around the board and The annoying thing about this mechanic is that at on your one of your RARER turns, you might get 3 or 4 pieces of evidence to place on suspects. Because these are random you might get a whole bunch of low values which don't do a lot of good. The game continues to caution you against letting people know who your target is as they will try to stop you. So you try to put the bigger ones on your man and spread a few around. Other players are doing this as well so there is NO WAY of getting any positive feedback for your actions until 4 HOURS later when the game ends. This lead to a great amount of annoyance on everyone's part. This is also the focus of the game. 20 VP possible if you get BOTH guilty and innocent hunches correct. One player even bothered to find out how guilty a suspect was (by using the snitch) only to realize it DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING without doing it AGAIN to compare it to another suspect! By that point someone had moved the snitch clear across the board to make that hard to do. The number of turns it would have taken to get over to it or get a dropship pass would have meant a lot of wasted turns. (You only have 14.) If you bothered to find out about the amount of evidence on a suspect you were better off trying to get evidence for the one you wanted guilty rather than checking.

2. The conspiracy

Instead of dealing with the murder, you can try to link the conspiracy with what we all thought was a REALLY cool mechanic. A puzzle in the board which allowed victory conditions to be flexible and change. You could actively try to change the end conditions to suit you! Great idea right!? Turns out that not much actually changes. A couple points for different influences picked up across the board which no one really knew what to go for. When a conspiracy link was finally made. People went mad and picked up a couple of tokens because they felt it was futile to continue throwing points into a bottomless pit of suspects that no one knew what the score was. So near the end of the game we got maybe 8 more points for some influences that people happened to have or went to get only because of the end state of the conspiracy puzzle.

3. Plots

This sounded pretty darn cool. Each character has a set of 3 plots of which 2 come out in the course of the game. The plots are resolved by gaining positive or negative "baggage." When the game cues you, you resolve the plot by adding up the totals. If there is more positive baggage you go to the more positive plot resolution. The baggage is added according to the plot cards... you can gain baggage for entering certain types of areas, or playing cards or discarding evidence or one of a hundred things. The amount of VP's you get from this activity varies. -7 to +7. So a possible 14 points. It seemed cumbersome to deal with baggage. I couldn't help the negative baggage from piling on and positive baggage seemed like a lot of effort for the plots I had. I imagine that if I knew ALL the plots for my character, I could play better... but why bother?

That's how to get most of your points. The other interesting aspect to the game is the twilight cards. These plot devices are either positive or negative. You spend your valuable action points to play the good ones. We never found a particularly good one. You get these cards every time you enter a particular type of area on the board. Almost every time I got one I decided that gaining evidence or the conspiracy was worth more than playing a positive card. The negative cards are played by other players to harm you. There are MANY things wrong with this system. Players are given a strategy sheet which tells you how to avoid the worse of the dark cards. My strategy said never go to a seedy neighborhood. So I didn't. This prevented the brunt of the damage and everyone was understandably irritated that they couldn't play their cards. You can discard cards to pay the cost for these cards so they started using them to ignore costs to play the random dark card or positive card they could. The strategy sheet also explains how to "trick" other characters into going to places so you can play your dark cards on them. However... you would have to do 2 things. 1. Care enough about the dark card you're holding. 2. Place evidence near to the character so they go where you want them to go. 3. Not place it in a convenient place for you to get. So... I have to give them a better shot at winning so I can play a card that might hurt them? Not worth it. I can't even imagine taking the time to set up a massive combo of cards. What a waste of VP and time.

Other nitpicky things...

The movement sounds cool but isn't.

There has to be a better way to do this that measuring with my car tool. Just give me friggn movement points or something. This is an unnecessary complication for the game.

90% of the spaces on the board don't do ANYTHING.

But... you have to stop there and announce it so everyone can scour their cards and see if they can play a card to hurt you for lack of anything better to do.

You can't measure who's winning.

Because you aren't sure who is going for what suspect and what the score is on each suspect is, taking dark cards and playing them is really just lashing out blindly at other people in the game. It doesn't feel purposeful.

The plots are cool... but fall short of fun.

It's a horrible thing but I REALLY want the plots to work. I REALLY love the idea of the characters. I REALLY want to love this game. But they just don't recover the poor game play.

The game we played took us a miserable 5 hours. After the game the rest of the evening was soured. The next few games we played we also didn't enjoy (even though we made an effort to bring out only our favorites.) If you are on the fence about getting this game. Really think about it. Or message me and I will sell you my copy.

EDIT : I'm going to keep my copy for a bit... I'll try to play again in a few weeks before I decide to sell. If I do decide to sell I'll put it up on the marketplace. Sorry for the misleading post.
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brian
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Golux wrote:
We were all chomping at the bit to get out there and solve the murder and unveil our plots! It all went downhill from there.

That really should be "champing at the bit."
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R. N. Dominick
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Thanks for the differing view. I am interested in Android, but worried about some aspects of the gameplay and the length of the game. I'm definitely not going to buy it without reading more about it as people's thoughts about the game mature, and hopefully I'll get to play it first as well.
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Kester J
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Thanks for the review. It seems from your review and the positive ones that the first play of this game is going to be a bit of a mess. I'll bear that in mind for our first play, but I'm not entirely sure what to do to negate it.

I'm hopeful things might improve after the first time though. They certainly did with Arkham Horror, which I thought was atrocious on the first play, but now quite enjoy.
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Joe Niezelski
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Yeah, I'm waiting for a real, in-depth session report.

That line at the end, "The next few games we played we also didn't enjoy (even though we made an effort to bring out only our favorites," makes me wonder if maybe you guys just weren't in a really gamey mood that evening to begin with.
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Miguel de la Casa
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Golux,

I've never played Android, but I'm also very interested in it. Since it's such an innovative game, I couldn't decide yet if we'll like the game or not. Thanks for the most interesting review up to now. I'd like to ask you one question: did you feel "in character" while playing the game (placing puzzle pieces, evidence...)? I'd like to know if the innovative mechanisms work in that regard and how did you feel about the solving-a-murder/framing-suspects dychotomy.

As for you not liking the game, I'd suggest giving it another chance: as you said there's a lot going on in the game and my impression is that it will take several games to get a working intuition about what is important to do, like who is placing much evidence on what suspect, or what that other guy is trying to do with the conspiracy and so on.
 
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In service to the Imperium of Man
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DuckAndCower wrote:
Yeah, I'm waiting for a real, in-depth session report.

That line at the end, "The next few games we played we also didn't enjoy (even though we made an effort to bring out only our favorites," makes me wonder if maybe you guys just weren't in a really gamey mood that evening to begin with.


The line at the start ("Despite these setbacks, the entire group (including me) was still REALLY excited to play") makes me think they were.


Miguel, I know your question wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a stab at answering it. When I played the game I didn't feel like I was role-playing the character so much as looking right over her shoulder. There was a connection, but we weren't the same. Having a hand full of my own light cards and other players' dark cards contributed to that; it made me feel like I had access to everyone's stories. As for the framing/solving problem, I never felt like I had a problem with that. Our group found ways to rationalize actions like removing evidence from suspects ("Looks like Vinnie is out there silencing the witnesses again").

Then again, I liked the game. Your mileage (and Golux's) may vary.
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Rich Moore
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It's good to hear an alternative viewpoint. But I really wonder if this is just a bad first impression with what arguably sounds like quite a complex game. It certainly does sound, though, like a game you have to work at a little to be able to get the flow down smoothly. It will be interesting to see whether others find that the game play improves with experience.
 
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Ubergeek
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I spent 100 Geek Gold and all I got was this lousy overtext message!
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I've been on the fence over getting this one. It's great to read a different take on the game. How many people played the game?

Quote:
The movement sounds cool but isn't.
Don't the range markers simply show the extent of your movement range? It seem like a simple system to me where you can move anywhere you want within that range. A simple sweep of the marker shows everywhere you can and can't go. What's over complicated about it?

Quote:
90% of the spaces on the board don't do ANYTHING.

Well it seems they do have a purpose, just not for you at times. Give that it's a card based game it appears to provide a required interactive element to make sure you aren't missing an opportunity to play a card on an opponent at a certain location.

Quote:
You can't measure who's winning.

This one does concern me however since it would be nice to know who appears in the lead to be able to hinder their efforts. I don't like whomping on someone without good reason. What were your final scores?

Thanks.

 
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Tony M
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Disclaimer: I haven't played a full game yet, so these are just ideas.

Golux wrote:

Other players are doing this as well so there is NO WAY of getting any positive feedback for your actions until 4 HOURS later when the game ends.


A couple thoughts on this aspect of the game. First off, certain character classes are more adept than others at solving the murder. For example, Louis has lots of light cards which allow him to view and rearrange evidence.

If you're playing a class that is suited towards solving the murder, you will be getting positive feedback via your twilight deck.

Other classes, like the Bounty Hunter are suited towards a "kill any suspect that's not mine" approach, making feedback unnecessary.

Also, don't forget about the Reporter and the Snitch. The reporter forces once piece of evidence to flip face up. The snitch lets you view ALL evidence on a suspect. So you can trade time for information.
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Brian Peters
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Iowa
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First off, thanks for the review!
I always like to see multiple opinions on a game.
Personally, after my first and only play of Android I have mixed feelings, but I'm still very excited to try it more, and I'm hoping my friends feel the same way.

there is one thing you said I'd like to comment on:
Golux wrote:
One player even bothered to find out how guilty a suspect was (by using the snitch) only to realize it DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING without doing it AGAIN to compare it to another suspect!


I'm really not following your logic here. I think it all depends on how much attention you're paying to the suspects and who is playing evidence on whom. If you notice that one player, for example, is the only person to have played evidence on a particular suspect it's pretty clear that looking at that evidence will tell you a lot.
But I suppose what you meant is that looking at the evidence on a single suspect will not tell you if that suspect is currently "in the lead" to end up guilty, and that's true.
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Kester J
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fnord3125 wrote:

But I suppose what you meant is that looking at the evidence on a single suspect will not tell you if that suspect is currently "in the lead" to end up guilty, and that's true.

This is something that ought to improve with play (I hope!), as you'll know what kind of amount of guilt usually makes someone guilty.
 
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Jay Quirk
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Thanks for the review. What we need to hear now is if other people have the same experience. So far, the few other players who have tried this have been positive. The rest of us are hopefully waiting on the sidelines until we get a chance to play.

I do wonder about some of the mechanics and if it is a question of "do we know how to use the right strategy here?" Some strategy articles would help here- once we can figure out the strategy.

I would think the snitch is more useful than shown here. (though I haven't played) Seeing the evidence is only part of the key. Knowing which players put evidence on that suspect is what makes that power truly useful since you may be able to quickly deduce who has that suspect as a guilty or innocent hunch.

Finally, I do notice games involved with a lot of character advancement or role-playing are often played in solitaire mode for the sake of playing and not for the sake of winning. They become more of a race game and less about interaction. In a normal game, losing players should take bigger risks for the big payoff by ignoring the info on their tip sheet. Everyone should be picking on the winner by collecting their dark cards, poaching any evidence near them, and defending the winner's guilty hunch. But I suspect the crowd that is drawn to immersive games like this are focussing on trying to succeed on their goals as an absolute and not willing to risk failure even if it makes the other players are fail more.

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Jared
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I played a game a few days ago with two people, and then each of us alternating control on a third character. The only issue with the movement rulers was that sometimes the ruler gets pretty close to reaching another location, but still not quite there, and it gets annoying. But there same element of 'Boy it would be convenient if I had just a little more movement' is present in most games, in this case, a little more movement is in millimeters though. It was also a little difficult keeping up with the twilight cards, but I'm chalking that up to controlling two characters rather than anything inherent in the game.
I also personally enjoy the fact that there's no clear winner until the end of the game, it makes you think about what people have been doing and the current state of the game rather than just looking at some score sheet and going after whose on top.
Yes the plot cards can go rather badly. It's much easier for 4 other people to put more bad baggage on a card than light baggage generated by the other player. If everyone concentrates on screwing you, you're not going to win, tough luck. But the game's not being played right if everyone groups together to mess with someone. That's why they implemented the mechanic of only one card can be played in response to an event; so everybody doesn't jump on the 'Make Raymond's life miserable' bandwagon.
Yes, most of the time 90% of the board doesn't do anything. But there's at least half of those spaces that give twilight cards, and they can all hold evidence, and sometimes some spaces get special uses when cards come into play. You're not going to have a cool unique thing to do at every location in a big city, just the important big name places.
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Robert Kuster
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Thanks for the review but,
the game is very new, just came out, has barely had any plays yet and already lengthy negative comments. Could've waited a little bit and had several games before throwing this out to everyone. I am all for reviews, positive and negative, but please give games a bit of a chance to be out in the public for a little while at least. A lot of work went into this game and the designers are trying to offer something unique and interesting with Andriod. Quite the lengthy post and all that after ONLY one play.

Roberious
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Philip Thomas
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roberious wrote:
Thanks for the review but,
the game is very new, just came out, has barely had any plays yet and already lengthy negative comments. Could've waited a little bit and had several games before throwing this out to everyone. I am all for reviews, positive and negative, but please give games a bit of a chance to be out in the public for a little while at least. A lot of work went into this game and the designers are trying to offer something unique and interesting with Andriod. Quite the lengthy post and all that after ONLY one play.

Roberious


Of course after only ONE play, you really want the guy to play again after this experience?

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Robert Kuster
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Philip Thomas wrote:
roberious wrote:
Thanks for the review but,
the game is very new, just came out, has barely had any plays yet and already lengthy negative comments. Could've waited a little bit and had several games before throwing this out to everyone. I am all for reviews, positive and negative, but please give games a bit of a chance to be out in the public for a little while at least. A lot of work went into this game and the designers are trying to offer something unique and interesting with Andriod. Quite the lengthy post and all that after ONLY one play.

Roberious


Of course after only ONE play, you really want the guy to play again after this experience?



I would most definitely give it another chance, especially once you've tried it out, you should be able to get through the rules better the second time around. Once I have my copy and try it out I'll come back to this post and reply with our results wether positive or negative, but with minimum 3 or more plays atleast.
By the way your comment was expected, but if he really hated the experience he won't play again anyways, which would be a shame, IMO.

Roberious
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Tim Seitz
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Golux wrote:
We were all chomping at the bit to get out there and solve the murder and unveil our plots! It all went downhill from there.

That really should be "champing at the bit."

Really Grammar Nazi, update your lexicon. Nowadays, most people say "chomp," and most people don't even know that "champ" can also be a verb. I know it's good to be correct, but in this case, the champing/chomping horse in question has already "left the barn."
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Kevin Bender
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Thanks for you viewpoint, Brian.

I disagree with you, but it is always good for people to hear more than one perspective on a game to help them decide if they might like it or not.

I'm not going to try to convince you that the game is awesome, or even ask you to play it again. I understand that there are far too many games out there waiting to be played to waste time trying a game twice that you did not enjoy playing the first time.

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Paul Imboden
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out4blood wrote:
I know it's good to be correct, but in this case, the champing/chomping horse in question has already "left the barn."


Sorry, but it's spelt "jumped the shark".
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Chris Ferejohn
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Opie wrote:
out4blood wrote:
I know it's good to be correct, but in this case, the champing/chomping horse in question has already "left the barn."


Sorry, but it's spelt "jumped the shark".


Sorry, but it's spelled "spelled".
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Paul Imboden
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cferejohn wrote:
Sorry, but it's spelled "spelled".


Spelleded "Parcheesi".
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Rod Batten
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Thanks for an alternate take on the game.
 
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Brian Peters
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out4blood wrote:
Really Grammar Nazi, update your lexicon. Nowadays, most people say "chomp," and most people don't even know that "champ" can also be a verb. I know it's good to be correct, but in this case, the champing/chomping horse in question has already "left the barn."

Aaaaaand another thread derailed by arguments about grammar. And me joining in. On the side of the "Grammar Nazi." Mostly.

While the dictionary I consulted did list the idiom as "champing at the bit" it also says that "chomp" is a variant of "champ." So, ya know. Whatever.

That said, just because "most people" say something a particular way does not make it correct. Just because "most people" don't know champ can be a verb doesn't mean it ceases to be one.
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Brett Hudoba
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I've personally not yet played the game and still hope to try it sometime to get my own impression; however, like others have said, maybe you need to give it another chance or two before you pass judgement. It could also be the case that this is just not the type of game for you or your group--which does not necessarily qualify it as a bad game overall.

I recently downloaded the rulebook and have only digested about half of it, but even from what I've read so far I don't see how it could be presented any more straightforward than it is, considering the massive amount of information that needs to be conveyed. Other than commentary about how the end scoring could be combined into a more universal chart, I'd be curious to know how anyone thinks they could organize the rules better.

Quote:
A great deal of chits and cards bring things into the game that are not explained in the rules, and while that's fine. Before we started we had to try and decipher what all these extra pieces were for... Did we miss a page?

It seems to me pages 3-8 covers this quite clearly right in the beginning.

And unless they went through the trouble to create a lexicon of what every single card does (a la Agricola), I'm guessing FFG was of the mindset that the card text was supposed to be pretty self-explanatory.

Yes, I do make these points having never played the game and maybe I'll feel differently when I see the mechanics in action, but I think I'm at the same initial excitement stage as when you first read the rules yourself.

Thanks for another perspective, regardless. thumbsup
 
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