Matt Carlson
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
-
I got the expansion for Christmas and was able to bring it out to play with some folks at the local game club. We were looking for something easier that had many basic designer game mechanics as one of the players was entirely new to modern boardgaming. Of the 5 players, we had 3 players who played a LOT of the comptuer version, one gamer who hadn't played St. Petersburg before, and one who was new to gaming in general. None of us had played the expansion before (I had read the nice preview over at BGN but that's the most anyone knew of it.)
We played with all the expansion cards except for the purple ones (to keep funky rules to a minimum...)
The game was enjoyed by all, although the cards (being fresh) might not have been shuffled as well as desired.
The player starting with the circle token (longtime gamer) had a poor start and struggled to catch up although I think he might have saved up expensive cards too much.
The game went well, although we coached the newbie a fair bit in the first few rounds to help him avoid common early pitfalls. I had a strong start as the aristocrat player, scoring a decent moneymaker early and then benefitting from a lucky somewhat early game appearance of a shipworker upgrade when anyone else eligible for it couldn't take advantage of it.
I ended up winning the game handily with a large compliment of 9 different aristocrats (won by 20+ points) with my nearest competitor scoring a solid aristocrat bonus but having a very strong blue point economy.
A breakdown of strategies:
Mine (winner): started with a good orange and a few decent green worker choices, giving me a good starting money engine. I used an observatory to help out, gaining two more (I think) workers before pushing for more orange aristocrats. I only went for an upgrade card with the observatory in the last round when the aristocrat deck was nearly depleted.
2nd Place: (lots of St. Petes experience): Got a Debtor's Prison early and went "dumpster diving" for any upgraded greens early as well as blue "upgrade" buildings (ie. 2/6 buildings, etc..) He had a couple cloth workers when the textile factory came out, but chose to go dumpster diving for another cloth worker rather than take the factory. In a defensive move, I bought the factory before his turn came around again. That was a huge help. With the ability to choose ANY card he wanted out of the discard pile, it seemed that the debtor's prison was actually too powerful to our group. (You can get that exact aristocrat you're missing, a guaranteed cheap green worker, etc...) The only drawback I could see is if there wasn't any early upgrading, but with our group of 5 people there were plenty of upgrades going around... With his ability to "dumpster dive" he built up a nice money and point engine and was coming on strong to my lead, only limited by a lack of atristocrats in his scoring. The only reason our group wasn't _convinced_ the debtor's prison was too powerful was that he didn't win the game.
3rd Place: (new to St Pete, but a gamer) Played well and got a huge money lead compared to most of the players but didn't realize he needed to find more uses for his money. Ended the game with $60 or so... Should have spent more the next to the last turn or so...
4th Place: (complete game newbie) Squeaked out a win against the third experienced St. Petersburg player partly due to the group's help to make sure he didn't make early mistakes and also to some judicious use of the other Observatory.
5th Place: Stuck with some bad placements in choices, had a hard time getting a money engine going. Might have been able to make a few better choices here or there but I think the cards were somewhat stacked against him during the game.
--------
All in all, I had a great time. I love the "improvements" to older cards and enjoy most of the new cards. Looking forward to trying out the game with the purple action cards and seeing how it goes when it is shuffled a bit better... 
One side note, I found it interesting in the 5 player game that we used up every card pile except for about a half-dozen of the upgrade cards. Everything else was wiped out in the last round.
I'd love to hear other folks' opinions on the Debtor's Prison... did it seem too powerful to us due to group-think? Was it due to the 5 player game setup? Or am I missing something?
-
Jonathan Takagi
United States
San Marcos
California
-
happycamper wrote:
I'd love to hear other folks' opinions on the Debtor's Prison... did it seem too powerful to us due to group-think? Was it due to the 5 player game setup? Or am I missing something?
I've only played the expansion a handful of times, but I would definitely not call it too powerful. On the contrary, it is usually not a highly desired card. In certain circumstances it could be useful, but in general there's not really anything good in the discard pile anyway. There should never be any aristocrats or workers, when we play they're usually just the really expensive buildings that we can't afford yet. Perhaps in this game it was powerful due to playing with inexperienced opponents who left a let a lot of good stuff get withdrawn from the board - I can't think of many circumstances when a Potjemkin's Village (1/4, 2/6 or 3/8) has ever not been purchased except for during the very last round.
-
Bill Gallagher
United States
California
-
jtakagi wrote: Perhaps in this game it (Debtor's Prison) was powerful due to playing with inexperienced opponents who left a let a lot of good stuff get withdrawn from the board - I can't think of many circumstances when a Potjemkin's Village (1/4, 2/6 or 3/8) has ever not been purchased except for during the very last round.
The Debtor's Prison can be useful when there's a lot of upgrading happening in the early and mid game. It's true that in virtually every game, the only cards that will go unpurchased (and thus go to the discard pile) are buildings. Because of the three card hand limit (save the one lucky person with the Warehouse), people may be forced to upgrade fairly early on, thus making discards available to players with the Debtor's Prison (and if the Banquet is in play, the Black Markets).
-
Halesowen Boardgamer
United Kingdom
Halesowen
West Midlands
-
I would say the debtor's prison is a very useful card although I wouldn't say it was too powerful. By the midgame it is inevitable that some upgrading will have taken place and cards that you may have missed will have found their way into the discard pile. I would agree with the OP that they will help you to pick up missed aristocrats toward the end of the game.
-
-
In my one game with the expansion (so far) I got the Debtor's Prison on the first round, and I think I used it every round except the final one when I upgraded it. I found it very useful. Everyone else in the game (with various St. Pete experience) thought that it seemed too powerful.
-
Matt Carlson
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
-
Drew1365 wrote: In my one game with the expansion (so far) I got the Debtor's Prison on the first round, and I think I used it every round except the final one when I upgraded it. I found it very useful. Everyone else in the game (with various St. Pete experience) thought that it seemed too powerful.
This is what happened in our game. It came out in the first round, and was used to good effect in (nearly) every round thereafter. (There was one round where he should have done something different with it...)
I think that having 5 players made a lot more cards get purchased and thus far more upgrading done than normal... leaving more things to select from the discards. I he used the Prison to acquire upgradable buildings the first couple rounds and then built money-making building upgrades (and then Prisoned the upgrade building back again - giving him nearly an income of 5 a round to purchase blue buildings...) Starting in the third round or so (when folks had anywhere from 3 to 5 green workers since we had 5 players) there was an upgraded worker or two in the discard pile to use.
I agree that the prison isn't all that overrated in a game with fewer players but in our 5 player game there was a lot more card churning. (And by that I mean upgrading, it was rare to see even 3 cards get discarded off the board - usually pricey blue buildings in the earlier game...)
-
Matt Carlson
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
-
jtakagi wrote:
I can't think of many circumstances when a Potjemkin's Village (1/4, 2/6 or 3/8) has ever not been purchased except for during the very last round.
As Bill mentioned, the issue is that they get purchased and then quickly upgraded, making them available for the Debtor's Prison. (I had to recheck the rules when we played because we couldn't remember for sure if upgraded cards get discarded or removed from the game...)
-
Nomadic Gamer
United States
Palatine
Illinois
-
"nothing useful in the discard pile" ????!
How about :
lumberjacks, gold miners, cheap buildings for the mayor, upgrades that no one can afford in the beginning of the game; heck, I found a theater in there once! 
-
|
|
