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Neil Christiansen
United States Mount Pleasant Michigan
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I have decided to try to systematically expand another posting on this topic.
What I am looking for is your nominations for the 20 “most essential” Occupation cards. By this I mean both in terms of return on investment (reward potential vs. opportunity cost) as well as how it contributes to and makes sense with the theme of the game (it makes sense for a very successful farmer to learn this). The opposite (“least essential”) would be those the pretty much never hit the table in terms of costs along with being somewhat anti-thematic (Does that really make sense for most farmers?)
Yes, I know many can only be evaluated as parts of combinations. I am asking that you evaluate them in isolation, without knowing whether the other components would or would not be available to you.
Below I list the cards from the base game to facilitate cutting and pasting.
Please feel free to editorialize and please try to list them in order of your evaluation of the most essential coming first. If you wish to list just the numbers, that is fine too.
I will keep a count of frequencies and keep a running tally of the top 40 below.
148 E Academic 269 K Acrobat 267 K Adoptive Parents 307 K Animal Breeder 259 I Animal Dealer 305 K Animal Handler 216 E Animal Keeper 306 K Animal Tamer 342 K Animal Trainer 150 E Baker 273 K Basin Maker 183 E Basketmaker 152 E Berry Picker 197 E Braggart 155 E Bread Seller 243 I Bricklayer 156 E Brush Maker 294 K Brushwood Collector 228 I Businessman 247 I Butcher 258 I Cabinetmaker 218 E Carpenter 295 K Cattle Breeder 201 E Cattle Whisperer 238 I Chamberlain 182 E Charcoal Burner 172 E Chief 173 E Chief's Daughter 227 I Church Warden 187 E Clay Deliveryman 230 I Clay Digger 185 E Clay Firer 242 I Clay Hut Builder 188 E Clay Mixer 241 I Clay Plasterer 186 E Clay Seller 290 K Clay Worker 167 E Conjurer 200 E Conservator 276 K Constable 181 E Cook 328 Z Cooper 239 I Corn Profiteer 289 K Countryman 240 I Cowherd 335 Z Cube Cutter 334 Z Dance Instructor 212 E Dancer 171 E Dock Worker 271 K Educator 170 E Estate Manager 233 I Farm Steward 160 E Farmer 263 I Fence Builder 265 I Fence Deliveryman 312 K Fence Overseer 264 I Fencer 163 E Field Warden 225 I Field Watchman 224 I Field Worker 219 I Fieldsman 161 E Fisherman 308 K Foreman 278 K Forester 272 K Frame Builder 333 Z Game Designer 226 I Gardener 326 Z Gentleman 168 E Greengrocer 184 E Grocer 254 I Groom 341 E Guildmaster 223 I Harvest Helper 159 E Head of the Family 175 E Hedge Keeper 327 Z Herald 236 I Hide Farmer 180 E Hobby Farmer 282 K House Steward 178 E Hut Builder 237 I Juggler 147 E Land Agent 244 I Layabout 189 E Lord of the Manor 291 K Lover 311 K Magician 190 E Maid 329 Z Mail Coach Driver 231 I Manservant 277 K Manufacturer 245 I Market Crier 292 K Market Woman 191 E Mason 149 E Master Baker 154 E Master Brewer 151 E Master Builder 164 E Master Forester 204 E Master Shepherd 162 E Meat Seller 153 E Mendicant 179 E Merchant 232 I Midwife 246 I Milking Hand 336 Z Mother of Twins 196 E Mushroom Collector 248 I Net Fisherman 274 K Organic Farmer 261 I Outrider 193 E Pastor 192 E Patron 275 K Perpetual Student 268 K Pieceworker 252 I Pig Breeder 253 I Pig Catcher 302 K Pig Whisperer 194 E Plow Driver 195 E Plow Maker 293 K Plowman 214 E Potter 249 I Puppeteer 209 E Quarryman 340 I Rancher 198 E Ratcatcher 251 I Reed Buyer 205 E Reed Collector 217 E Reeve 199 E Renovator 310 K Resource Seller 300 K Schnaps Distiller 279 K Scholar 202 E Seasonal Worker 296 K Seed Seller 332 Z Seed Trader 266 K Serf 297 K Sheep Farmer 250 I Sheep Whisperer 203 E Shepherd 298 K Shepherd Boy 299 K Slaughterman 286 K Smallholder 222 I Social Climber 331 Z Sower 207 E Stablehand 208 E Stablemaster 213 E Stockman 303 K Stone Breaker 255 I Stone Buyer 210 E Stone Carrier 256 I Stone Carver 211 E Stonecutter 287 K Storehouse Clerk 288 K Storehouse Keeper 169 E Storyteller 257 I Street Musician 206 E Swineherd 229 I Sycophant 280 K Tanner 260 I Taster 330 Z Taxidermist 215 E Tenant Farmer 157 E Thatcher 285 K Tinsmith 281 K Travelling Salesman 158 E Turner 174 E Tutor 166 E Undergardener 304 K Veterinarian 325 Z Village Beauty 221 I Village Elder 262 I Water Carrier 309 K Weaver 220 I Well Builder 270 K Wet Nurse 234 I Wood Buyer 301 K Wood Carver 235 I Wood Collector 283 K Wood Deliveryman 284 K Wood Distributor 176 E Woodcutter 177 E Wooden Hut Builder 165 E Yeoman Farmer
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Bryan Maxwell
United States Burtchville Michigan
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Off the top of my head:
Baker: lets you bake bread once when you play him, and once per harvest. A godsend for bread makers.
Conservator: lets you renovate directly from a wood house to a stone house. It saves you the action you would normally take upgrading from wood to clay (which I realize is a wash since you spent an action playing the occupation.) It also saves you clay/reed and the actions necessary to acquire them.
Plow Maker: When you plow a field, he lets you pay 1 food to plow a second field at the same time. Apart from needing plowed fields to grow veggies/grain, a plowed field is worth points at the end of the game, as is covering up empty spaces on your board.
Seasonal worker: gives you a grain or (after turn 6) a veggie when you take day laborer. Very handy, e
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James Caddick
United Kingdom London
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I like:
Carpenter: allows you a 2 wood/clay/stone reduction on each extension. With a bit of luck it can allow you to build two rooms at once and get off to rapid and early growth.
Field Watchmen: Allows you to plow a field every time you take a grain.
Clay Worker/Clay Mixer: Can give you the edge that allows you to establish yourself as the early meat eater.
Anything that gives you free reed, or a reed discount: e.g. reed collecter and thatcher.
Also the usual suspects that people often claim are broken: wet nurse, the lover, the ratcatcher, the chamberlain. But I play most of my Agricola online and use a tournament deck where these sorts of cards are removed.
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Scott O'Brien
United States connellsville Pennsylvania
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my top 20... (not in order of importance)
Baker Farmer Master Forester Green Grocer Hedge Keeper Wood Cutter Herald Cook Countryman Clay worker Bricklayer Mail Coach Driver Sower Sheep Farmer Conservator Field Watchman Field Warden stablehand animal breeder animal dealer carpenter
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Neil Christiansen
United States Mount Pleasant Michigan
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Thanks Scott!
That is EXACTLY what I am looking for!
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Geoff Burkman
United States Kettering Ohio
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I'll take the Taster and farm circles around all of you.
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Sean McCarthy
United States Seattle Washington
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How about a poll?
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Poll:
20 "Most Essential" Occupations
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Nice Poll!!! Will be interesting to see what it brings... :)
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Neil Christiansen
United States Mount Pleasant Michigan
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Hey, that is great! Thanks tons.
-Neil
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Geoff Burkman
United States Kettering Ohio
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I would have voted for the Taster about twenty times, if possible.
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Rob White
United States Richmond Virginia
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Voted for my 20. Of those 20 my favorites are: Mushroom Collector Baker Wet Nurse
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Neil Christiansen
United States Mount Pleasant Michigan
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Which of these are disallowed in the tournment deck as being "broken"?
For example, is not the Wet Nurse a bit TOO good?
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Geoff Burkman
United States Kettering Ohio
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If it's handled properly, possibly. Beyond that, I'll put the Taster up against the Wet Nurse any day.
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Brian Ridge
United States Everett Washington
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I've never seen such a big poll...
Brian
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Sean McCarthy
United States Seattle Washington
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No kidding - I didn't expect it to work!
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Interesting how the best occupations change with the environment given by the accepted play style. My suggestions descend from the extreme Solo records I had read here and on the Lookout forum, and my co-operative record games and attempts. So they include the excellent Market Crier, Church Warden, Constable, Reeve, Dancer, Puppeteer that are of dubious value in competitive play, due to requiring no interference, and/or helping others too ;-) I also put some robust general-purpose helpers: Field Watchman, Seasonal Worker, Carpenter, Conservator, Wet Nurse. Skipped the too-robust but weak Mushroom Collector, Baker or cutthroat competitive Taster, Chamberlain.
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Loomis
United States Akron Ohio
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I voted.
I voted for the Baker, the Mushroom Collector, the Maid, the Wet Nurse, and the Field Watchman.
Thanks
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Bryan Maxwell
United States Burtchville Michigan
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bwridge wrote: I've never seen such a big poll...
Brian That's what she said.
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MisterG wrote: I would have voted for the Taster about twenty times, if possible. :D
Agreed. It's far and away the strongest occupation IMHO. It currently stands in 7th(!) in the poll, which surprises me. Everything else at the top I can agree with, with the (controversial) exception of the Wet Nurse. I think it's a great skill-testing card: it looks really amazing at first glance (I almost thought of banning the card when I first got dealt it). When you actually sit down and analyse how much you gain versus how much it costs (and how much the other players gain from you playing it, which is not insignificant), then it doesn't look nearly as good. In fact, if I get dealt it now, I don't even consider playing it. qqzm
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qqzm wrote: In fact, if I get dealt [the Wet Nurse] now, I don't even consider playing it. qqzm But it saves so many actions! Not to mention how unfair it is if FG doesn't show up until round 7. Admittedly, I've never seen it get dealt (we always reveal all our cards at the end of the game), but the Sycophant looks amazing. I get 2 food whenever someone else takes Grain, and I get 1 food when I take Grain myself, and it even costs other people food. What are they going to do, never take any Grain?
Last edited on 2009-03-07 01:15:37 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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magic gecko
Australia
Melbin Oz
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In 5 player, always going 1st is ridiculous In 5 player, going 3rd, 4th or 5th as well as 1st is obscene.
The Taster is plain wrong in big games.
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Alex Rockwell
United States Bothell Washington
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Doh, I forgot taster and mushroom collector when voting.
Wet Nurse is not the best card, but it is really good. Is it broken?
It ends up being extremely good in games where family growth comes out late (turn 7), and not as strong when the growth comes out early.
Other stuff is much more broken, such as Taster (omg), Lover (can get the family member turn 2!), the guy that opens access to the round 12+ cards for you before they are available to others (you get to psend last picks on the best actions in the game), etc. In reed short games (3 player and to a lesser extent 2 player), Reed providing or saving occupations like Reed Collector or Thatcher are quite broken as well.
Anything that provides early food in an efficient way is extremely strong, like Mushroom Collector, Seasonal Worker, etc.
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Geoff Burkman
United States Kettering Ohio
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Alexfrog wrote: ...In reed short games (3 player and to a lesser extent 2 player), Reed providing or saving occupations like Reed Collector or Thatcher are quite broken as well. Alex, I respect a great deal of what you've written on these boards, but have to disagree with you on this one. Both Ocks you mention are quite nice, but far from broken. I've seen them get whipped way too many times. Just my anecdotal opinion, of course.
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Alex Churchill
United Kingdom Cambridge Cambs
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plaguewielder wrote: But [the Wet Nurse] saves so many actions! Not really. The Wet Nurse is exceedingly strong, but it's not because it actually saves actions. Playing the Wet Nurse is 1 action, versus taking FG 2 or 3 times - that's just a saving of 1 or 2 actions, and you have to pay 1 food to use the Occ and you also lose out on the chance to build a minor improvement. If you do really obscene things by building 2 rooms at once then you're actually reducing the amount of actions you can save with the Wet Nurse. The reason it's so extremely strong is that it gains you actions by getting family members earlier than you would do otherwise - potentially significantly earlier if you use the Wet Nurse to get out of a fight for the hotly contested FG space. I've won (massively) every time I've played the Wet Nurse (all 2 of them). It's particularly strong if you can build 2 rooms on turn 6, and have enough food to gain 2 family members and feed them. I think I've had each pair out of Axe, Thatcher, and Wet Nurse; I shudder at the thought of getting all 3 of them together. (Also, yes, Taster is painfully strong too.)
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Neil Christiansen
United States Mount Pleasant Michigan
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Nice discussion, although I would note at this point I didn't necessarily mean just "most powerful".
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