Tom Grant
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After playing Age of Conan once, and looking over the rules after the fact, I want to make sure that I've understood a couple of key sections correctly.


Adventure conclusion
If I'm reading the rules correctly, here's the sequence:

(1) Someone removes the last token for the current adventure.

(2) The player who removed the token takes his action for the turn.

(3) After that player is done, you resolve the adventure.

(4) If this is the last (fourth) adventure for this age, you also do the "end of age" steps.

The reason I ask is, when we played, we resolved the adventure (and, possibly, the end of age stuff) before the player took his turn.


Crowning Conan
Ending the game by crowning Conan is either hard, or very hard, depending on what's the correct reading of the rules:

(1) You resolve the adventure, a process that includes moving Conan to the adventure location.If that location is the home territory for a player, that person has the opportunity to crown Conan. (This is the very hard version, which I believe is the correct reading.)

(2) You resolve the adventure. If Conan is currently in a player's home territory, he has the opportunity to crown Conan before having to move him to the adventure location. (This is the hard version, which I don't think is correct.)

cromblankandblankmitra
 
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Maciej Teległow
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As i read the rules:
Adventure conclusion: You are right.
Crowning Conan: version 2.Conan has to be in a Conan controler kingdom at the end of adventure (before moving Conan to destination) to let Conan controler try to crown Conan.
Is it difficult? it depends, but it is very important and fun aspect of the game.
 
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Kingdaddy wrote:
Adventure conclusion
If I'm reading the rules correctly, here's the sequence:

(1) Someone removes the last token for the current adventure.

(2) The player who removed the token takes his action for the turn.

(3) After that player is done, you resolve the adventure.

(4) If this is the last (fourth) adventure for this age, you also do the "end of age" steps.


Correct, although you might re-number 3 and 4 because if you're doing "end of age" stuff, most of it occurs before the adventure resolution.


Kingdaddy wrote:
The reason I ask is, when we played, we resolved the adventure (and, possibly, the end of age stuff) before the player took his turn.


We did a lot more than that wrong in our first game!


Kingdaddy wrote:
Crowning Conan
Ending the game by crowning Conan is either hard, or very hard, depending on what's the correct reading of the rules:

(2) You resolve the adventure. If Conan is currently in a player's home territory, he has the opportunity to crown Conan before having to move him to the adventure location. (This is the hard version, which I don't think is correct.)


That's almost correct, although the better way to state it is you complete the adventure, rather than resolve it. If you try to crown Conan, you'll never do the adventure resolution.

I don't have enough experience to say exactly how hard it is, but in our game I bid 12 for Conan (6 card and 6 token). If the evil Stygian (my son) hadn't also bid 12, and won the tiebreaker for holding fewer adventure tokens, I'd have pulled it off.


[edit]I just changed the quote above to cite #2 as the correct answer. I don't know whether I misread or pasted badly the first time around, but I apologize for causing confusion. Hopefully my commentary below made it clear how I think things are supposed to work anyway.
 
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Ian Gill
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Crowning Conan

I thought option 2 would be correct. If not, there is only one adventure card per home province. Thus only a slim chance of getting the opportunity to crown Conan and thus being more luck than judgement
If option 2 is correct, you can move Conan to your home province but possibly at the expense of adventure tokens.

I've not played the game yet but this is the first rules point (so far)that I'm really unsure about.





 
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David Abel
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Sphere wrote:
Kingdaddy wrote:
Adventure conclusion
If I'm reading the rules correctly, here's the sequence:

(1) Someone removes the last token for the current adventure.

(2) The player who removed the token takes his action for the turn.

(3) After that player is done, you resolve the adventure.

(4) If this is the last (fourth) adventure for this age, you also do the "end of age" steps.


Correct, although you might re-number 3 and 4 because if you're doing "end of age" stuff, most of it occurs before the adventure resolution.


The text on page 18 reads that "When the last of four adventure cards in the adventure deck have been resolved, the age change occurs after current player completes his turn"

I see it as:
1. Remove last token
2. Player completes turn
3. Resolve Adventure
4. Age change.
5. Reset Adventure deck
6. Bid for nexct adventure
7. Next player takes turn


Sphere wrote:
Kingdaddy wrote:
Crowning Conan
Ending the game by crowning Conan is either hard, or very hard, depending on what's the correct reading of the rules:

(1) You resolve the adventure, a process that includes moving Conan to the adventure location. If that location is the home territory for a player, that person has the opportunity to crown Conan. (This is the very hard version, which I believe is the correct reading.)


That's correct. I don't have enough experience to say exactly how hard it is, but in our game I bid 12 for Conan (6 card and 6 token). If the evil Stygian (my son) hadn't also bid 12, and won the tiebreaker for holding fewer adventure tokens, I'd have pulled it off.


I think #2 is correct. The Conan player can make a b-line for his home province with disregard to the adventure's destination. If if makes it, he has the opportunity to crown Conan. Waiting around for one of the last adventure destination to happen to be your home province is just too luck dependent.


 
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Posco wrote:

I thought option 2 would be correct. If not, there is only one adventure card per home province.


I think what you're missing is that the Conan player doesn't have to move Conan to the destination indicated by the card. Instead, he can move him to his home province, then try to crown him when the last token is taken or discarded.

If Conan's intended destination actually was the player's home province, that just means you'll pick up an extra adventure token.
 
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Tim McCormley
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Sphere wrote:

Kingdaddy wrote:
Crowning Conan
Ending the game by crowning Conan is either hard, or very hard, depending on what's the correct reading of the rules:

(1) You resolve the adventure, a process that includes moving Conan to the adventure location.If that location is the home territory for a player, that person has the opportunity to crown Conan. (This is the very hard version, which I believe is the correct reading.)


That's correct. I don't have enough experience to say exactly how hard it is, but in our game I bid 12 for Conan (6 card and 6 token). If the evil Stygian (my son) hadn't also bid 12, and won the tiebreaker for holding fewer adventure tokens, I'd have pulled it off.
[/q]
That's correct?

That would make it nigh on impossible to crown Conan, since there are only four adventure cards that have home provinces as their destination and they would have to appear during the third age.

I gotta believe that you can attempt to crown Conan before he moves to the adventure location.

According to pg 18: "When any player takes or discards the last remaining adventure token on the adventure track, that adventure ends. The player currently taking a turn finishes his turn and then the adventure is resolved."

Now pg. 20: "If, at the end of a turn in which one of the adventures of the third age is concluded, Conan is in the home province of the Conan player, the Conan player may attempt to crown Conan king."

This to me suggests that the crowning attempt occurs right after the player turn ends, when the adventure is "concluded," but before you "resolve" the adventure. In other words, "ending the adventure" is a separate step from "resolving the adventure," and "resolving the adventure" is when you move Conan to the destination location.

Tim
 
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armor_11 wrote:
I gotta believe that you can attempt to crown Conan before he moves to the adventure location.

According to pg 18: "When any player takes or discards the last remaining adventure token on the adventure track, that adventure ends. The player currently taking a turn finishes his turn and then the adventure is resolved."

Now pg. 20: "If, at the end of a turn in which one of the adventures of the third age is concluded, Conan is in the home province of the Conan player, the Conan player may attempt to crown Conan king."


If you try to crown Conan, there is no adventure resolution. The game is over one way or another, and there is no point to bidding for Conan.

Read the whole Crowning Conan section. Here's the key point:

Quote:
If the Conan player does not attempt to crown Conan when the adventure ends, and the adventure deck is not empty, a new card is drawn and a new bid for Conan takes place normally.


 
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Ian Gill
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Quote:
I think what you're missing is that the Conan player doesn't have to move Conan to the destination indicated by the card. Instead, he can move him to his home province, then try to crown him when the last token is taken or discarded.


I fully understand this but this is NOT how the rules are written

The issue is this......

it says that when an adventure is completed, Conan is IMMEDIATELY moved to the adventure destination (if not already there) (pg 18)

Crowning Conan takes place at the end of the turn (pg 20). thus, by the above rule on page 18, Conan will ONLY be in a home province at the end of the turn if it actually the adventure destination.

What I assume is meant is that you can crown Conan BEFORE you move him to the advanture destination. Otherwise the chance to crown Conan is minimal and by pure luck. BUT this does not appear to be how the rules state it.

I hope this is now clear. I believe the intention is that you can move Conan to a home province and crown him - but the rules appear to contradict this.


 
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Ian Gill
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Ahhhhh

There is a subtle difference between turn ending and adventure resolution. Between these, you can attempt to crown Conan BEFORE he moves to the destination

Thanks

It makes sense as I did believe option 2 was correct - just couldn't see it in the rules (and I found WOTR rules easy !)
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Posco wrote:
it says that when an adventure is completed, Conan is IMMEDIATELY moved to the adventure destination (if not already there) (pg 18)


Yes, the rules could have been written more clearly on this point. But the "moving Conan immediately to the destination" bit is part of the Adventure Resolution. There is no mention about crowning Conan here.

Posco wrote:

Crowning Conan takes place at the end of the turn (pg 20). thus, by the above rule on page 18, Conan will ONLY be in a home province at the end of the turn if it actually the adventure destination.


How do you explain the fact that the "Crowning Conan" rules tell you when to do the Adventure resolution, and explicitly say that you do that if the player does not attempt to crown Conan? They also say that the game ends after the crowning sequence, and there is nothing in there about resolving the Adventure when you do try to crown Conan.

Posco wrote:
I hope this is now clear.


I can see why it is confusing, but both the Adventure Resolution and the Crowning of Conan occur at the end of the turn. The later details exactly when and under what circumstances you would do the former. I don't think there is any doubt about the intent.
 
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Tim McCormley
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EDIT: I'm blowin away most of my post because it referred to an older version of "Sphere's" original response to "KingDaddy."

Let's just sum up the rule as we understand it, shall we?

The "Conan player" may optionally crown Conan when the last adventure tile is removed from the adventure track during ANY adventure in the third age, provided Conan is in their home territory when the last tile is removed.

Correct?

Tim
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armor_11 wrote:
EDIT: I'm blowin away most of my post because it referred to an older version of "Sphere's" original response to "KingDaddy."


Sorry about that - went back and read the whole thread and realized I'd pasted in one thing and argued in favor of the other. blush

armor_11 wrote:

Let's just sum up the rule as we understand it, shall we?

The "Conan player" may optionally crown Conan when the last adventure tile is removed from the adventure track during ANY adventure in the third age, provided Conan is in their home territory when the last tile is removed.

Correct?


Yup, that's exactly how I see it.
 
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Tom Grant
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Thanks for all the responses. I'm glad I asked the question.
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zoran
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Sphere wrote:


If Conan's intended destination actually was the player's home province, that just means you'll pick up an extra adventure token.


This is how I would play it and the rules seem to indicate this too; a nice extra bonus just before you bid to Crown Conan king.

Although the rules say this is part of the adventure resolution...

"To resolve the adventure, check Conan's location. If Conan is in the same province as the destination marker, Conan has successfully completed the adventure. The Conan player draws one adventure token directly from the adventure token container as a reward."p18

...it seems to be implied that you get part way with the resolution before the Crown Conan attempt...

"The Conan player attempts to crown Conan by announcing his attempt to crown Conan before the new adventure card is revealed."p21.

...because...

"A new card is drawn from the deck."p18

...comes after the previous bit from p18.

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zoran
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There seems to be a conflict between adventure resolution and the crown Conan king procedure:

Adventure resolution:

1. Check Conan's location.
2. Award bonus if Conan is at destination.
3. Move Conan to destination if not there.
4. Draw new adventure card.

Crown Conan king:

Before new adventure card is revealed and only if Conan is in your Kingdom.

This sits awkwardly between 3 and 4 and seems to be causing the problems with understanding.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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zemus wrote:
There seems to be a conflict between adventure resolution and the crown Conan king procedure:

Adventure resolution:

1. Check Conan's location.
2. Award bonus if Conan is at destination.
3. Move Conan to destination if not there.
4. Draw new adventure card.

Crown Conan king:

Before new adventure card is revealed and only if Conan is in your Kingdom.

This sits awkwardly between 3 and 4 and seems to be causing the problems with understanding.


Umm, do you mean between 2 and 3? If Crowning would go between 3 and 4, could only Crown if Conan's Adventure ended in your home region, as at 3 Conan is moved most likely to somewhere else.
 
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zoran
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Dam the Man wrote:

Umm, do you mean between 2 and 3? If Crowning would go between 3 and 4, could only Crown if Conan's Adventure ended in your home region, as at 3 Conan is moved most likely to somewhere else.


Yes, it should be between 2 and 3 but the rules leave a lot of people thinking it might be between 3 and 4.

 
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zemus wrote:
Sphere wrote:


If Conan's intended destination actually was the player's home province, that just means you'll pick up an extra adventure token.


This is how I would play it and the rules seem to indicate this too; a nice extra bonus just before you bid to Crown Conan king.

Although the rules say this is part of the adventure resolution...



That's a very good point which I hadn't considered, zemus. As I said earlier, I believe crowning Conan and resolving the adventure are meant to have an either/or relationship, so unless I hear differently from the designers I won't award the adventure token in that case.
 
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Tom Grant
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For some reason, I have the phrase Royal Crown Conan stuck in my head.
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Dick Jarvinen
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What seems 'clean' to me (uh-oh... some rather cloudy skies here) is that after a player selects the last adventure token (whether he moves Conan or not doesn't matter; the key is pulling the token off the board when Conan is in his home area), the player must then decide whether or not to crown Conan.

If he doesn't attempt to crown him, the game continues on normally. If he tries to crown him, you proceed to the 'Crown Conan' bit, the player lives or dies, and a winner is determined.

The only difference I can see from the above procedure and the letter of the rules is that the process does not technically happen at the end of a turn.

But it is definitely well-defined!
 
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Roberto Di Meglio
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The intended rule is that you can move Conan to your home province to try to crown him - NOT that you can try to crown him only if the destination of the adventure is your home province.

Regarding the bonus token, I normally play by allowing the bonus token to be drawn if Conan's destination is the same as the player's home province during coronation.

What you skip, when you try to crown Conan, are the steps of moving Conan to destination, drawing a new adventure and bidding again - these things would be pointless, as the game is going to end.
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Roberto Di Meglio
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As this thread has been linked, I won't edit my post above, but add a clarification.

Of course when I say that "I normally play" I mean that our design intention is that you play in that way.

At the moment of writing, I did not have a way to ascertain the actual wording of the rule, so I prefered to express myself in this way rather than say "the rule is..." without access to the final rulebook.

When an adventure ends you do not do a "unitary" step called "adventure resolution". The resolution of an adventure is just the sum of a sequence of actions, including:
1- check Conan's position
2- draw bonus token (if applicable)
3- move Conan to destination (if applicable)

If you attempt to crown Conan, you do so between (2) and (3).

A general consideration...

Please remember that between the design and the final rulebook there is a certain amount of work done (rightly so) by other people.

There are things which are obvious for the designer (such as the timing issues raised here) - ecause in the process of making the game, you play in a certain way, then you write down what you're playing... and after people read what you wrote, you sometime find out that what they read is not what you THINK you wrote... Or at least, that some people can give interpretations you would never think of.

This is also more serious when you write in a language which is not your native one, or in a language which very few people around the world may translate properly...
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