From the publisher's website:



http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=657

so its similar to the leaders possibly being human sympathizers. They may or may not be trying to make the humans win by cutting it close!

I assume the real Cylons have a way to deal with the leader if they are clearly helping the humans though!

I TOTALLY called the text on Grant Mercy!

I read that thread and was surprised when I realised you figured that out before seeing the article lol

I do like how the Cylon Leader's are designed. However since its only with 4 or more players, are we thinking that if one player is automatically a Cylon leader, does that mean we'll still use a Sympathizer card (meanings humans will have until the half-way mark to pull resources below half on one dial to assure the sympathizer will stay with them) given I assume a Cylon Leader will take the spot of a "You Are A Cylon" Loyalty card. Anyone think that will be right?

Glad to see Caprica 6 is a leader (though I'm sure we all suspected she would be). Very cool powers, but noticed her "Per Turn" isn't an action but listed instead as a "Movement". Does this mean this ability activates every time she moves/changes locations (i.e.: meaning locking her in the Brig will prevent her using this)? An observation i don't think anyone has picked up on yet (or at least mentioned).

And the "Agenda Cards" - do you think these may trump a human victory, or allow you to win along-side them? I'm guessing the first as the sample we've received says "You win IF the humans win AND at least one reasource (not fuel) is at 2 or lower". Meaning you need the humans to win, but not completely for you to win. So if you achieve this, will this mean you have won and the humans have lost to you? Or will it mean you have won along-side them? I guess it could be a matter or interpretation but I think it would be a nice trump move to say the Cylon Leader got the last laugh on the humans (and possibly their 'opponent cylons' - meaning are we looking at potentially 3 factions now? Humans and the Cylon civil conflicts?)

Also I noticed this line on the current preivew text at the end:

"the Pegasus can deal out equally savage responses - as long as its crew is a bit flexible with morality"

Does this imply that these new rules of "Elimination" may cause Moral loss as I believe other plays suspected it might? Moral is one of the most fluid resources, bouncing up AND down rapdily, and killing people will never be a good thing for moral so it will be interesting to see how it resolves - especially since we've deduced the Airlock will be used for Eliminating characters.

One last note, I do like the Treachery card. Being able to force a resource to die each turn while a player is locked up will be dangerous, but also helpful to the Agenda's if there are more like "Grant Mercy". Any ideas what the other card will be? And do we think these cards will be playable by Cylon leaders at anytime, or only when aboard the Galactica?

Any responses on these ideas?

In the thread looking at the text on the Pegasus board, it was mentioned that the locations appeared more powerful, but double edged (I think I remember the Pegasus guns can hit several raiders at once, but risk shooting a civie)

There's also the infamous "airlocking" location (a good way to send a Cylon/Cylon leader back to Caprica ?) who has to have nasty effects if you're wrong.

As for the Cylon leaders, I suppose it's 3 factions now.
Humans, Cylons and a Cylon leader with his own agenda.
I can't see how humans reaching the finish line alive could be said to have "lost"

As for Caprica 6, the article talks about her special power being usable instead of movement. Doesn't solve how it interacts with the brig, tough.

This part is puzzling me as well. In our games, it's very rare for the humans to win without at least one of these resources at 2 or less. Unless the thinking is that, because the Pegasus is with them and the journey to New Caprica is shorter, things have become a lot easier for the humans it will be rarer for these resources to be so depleted by game end...

It just seems that:

* If this Cylon leader agenda trumps the human win, then the humans will never win because keeping all resources above 2 will be impossibly difficult.

OR

* If this Cylon leader agenda provides a shared win for the humans, then the victory will always be shared unless another Cylon player wins.

OR

* The game has been made easier for the humans, allowing them to more easily keep all of their resources above 2. In this case, the humans will have a very easy time of it whenever this agenda isn't in play.

Of course, a lot of this depends on what the other agendas are as well as other game mechanics, but...

Thoughts?

Well, the merciful leader will be helping the humans from time to time to see that they aren't completely destroyed, so presumably it WILL be easier for them.

If the leader expects the humans to lose, he will do a lot to try to help them. But if he does too much, then he might just enable them to win with 3 of every resource.

It just requires a certain amount of balance. If the humans are doing too well, you need to beat them down a little bit. If they are struggling, you will help them along.

This is just one agenda though, out of at least four. I'm sure that some agendas will allow him to share in a cylon victory, or perhaps will have conditions that are completely independent of who else wins.

Morale is not Moral! A morality issue would be something like sacrificing population for some other goal (like Zarek's once per game ablity in the base game).

On your turn, you get a move and an action.

Things that say "Action:" let you spend your action to do something. Similarly, things that say "Movement:" would let you spend your move to do something. So in fact, to use her ability she needs to decline to use her move for its normal purpose (moving).

The text of the preview confirms that is the intention:

Hmmm...I also notice that the treachery card "Human Weakness" says:

"If at least 1 HUMAN player is in the brig....", since you are usualy not sure when a player is human or cylon when exactly do these cards come into play?

Probably only for the Cylon leader and revealed Cylons.

Sure, but how do they check that the player in the brig is in fact human...unless all Cylons have been revealed of course.

This could easily be remedied with a few mechanic changes. For example, maybe cylon leaders can look at loyalty cards. As long as they knew the person in the brig was human, they could use the card, but it would reveal to everyone that the person in the brig was in fact human (which might be fair compensation seeing as how this card could get pretty nasty if used repeatedly). You punish them for brigging someone innocent, but they will quickly try to correct their mistake now that they know beyond all doubt that the player is innocent.

I imagine a lot of the loyalty card mechanics are getting a significant overhaul in the expansion, so I there's not much we can say about how that card will work.

Probably the card just talks of a human/unrevealed cylon.

Agreed. I think it's as simple as that.

Sending people to the brig is already pretty costly. Causing humans to lose resources for putting people in the brig (even known cylons) just seems like a terrible move, balance wise, unless other game mechanics in the expansion give extra incentive to put people in the brig.

I'm also very curious about the airlock thing. I think it's a needed mechanic to avoid Boomer choosing the crisis card from the brig for instance, but I sure hope it doesn't mean the "airlocked" player is eliminated from the game, only the character. I think there will probably be some morale loss if it was a human and the player comes back with another character. In a way, this could be an interesting strategy for the human players : imagine that your morale is high but you have nobody to repair damaged vipers and locations of Galactica, you could airlock a player so he comes back as Tyrol.

And Cain's power, which is to execute instead of sending to the brig could be very strong (but dangerous). Sounds like a good pick for the character.

Then why does is state HUMAN player and not just player..revealed cylons can't be in the brig (unless they've changed that of course).

Seeing as known Cylons can now wander Galactica, that doesn't seem unlikely.

Everyone is a Human until they show otherwise. A human player could be a unrevealed Cylon but that doesn't matter. I would assume though that if its possible for the Cylon Leader to end up in the brig, that would not count.

It's not like the resources just disappear! They cost the Cylon leader an action (and the card), which they could have spent doing something more productive. We don't know what the available Cylon actions will be but Caprica, for example, is usually better than "reduce the highest resource by one".

Exactly. Seeing as it's the highest resource you're reducing, this is actually pretty much the opposite of what it is you're usually trying to do!

I'm sure many of the new agenda cards will make use of this mechanic. No doubt there'll be agendas that require resources to be at certain levels in order to be fulfilled. This card will come in quite handy for those!

I didn't see the following possibility, namely a draw between the Cylon Leader and Humans

Let's take the Grant Mercy agenda, and assume there are no shared wins

If the humans lose, and the Cylon leader has the Grant Mercy agenda, then neither side fulfill victory conditions. So a draw? Of course if there is a normal Cylon then they win. Thoughts?