Tim Harrison
United States
Cleveland
Ohio
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I ran multiple searches of the forums and surprisingly haven't found anything yet, so hear goes:
Martin Wallace is being sued by FRED Distribution for breach of contract!
I respect BGN's copyrights, so I will not copy & paste the article. Read it here:
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comment...
All I can say is.... WOW!
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Manuel Serpa
United States
Costa Mesa
California
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As an attorney, I am confident that they will come to a settlement. As a gamer, my only concern is that it in no way interferes with master designer Wallace's output!
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Chapel
United States
Round Rock
Texas
Only for the love of the game...
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All this brouhaha for Age of Steam? Meh.
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I feel like I need a shower after reading that article.
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C Lloyd
United States
North Reading
Massachusetts
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Wow. News like this just makes me sick. Mind you, I'm not a Wallace apologist, or even a huge fan for that matter. Sounds like he might have benefited from better legal counsel in past dealings, although I have no idea about details.
However... This is just one more reason for me to avoid all things FRED / Funagain / Gryphon / Eagle. Not that I really needed one. 
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Chapel
United States
Round Rock
Texas
Only for the love of the game...
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My question is, is when is someone going to sue FRED for the shotty ass job they did on Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization??
Now that would be some justice.
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Stephen Smith
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
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Also posted for discussion in the Age of Steam forums here.
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Tim Gilberg
United States
Norman
Oklahoma
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clloyd09 wrote: Wow. News like this just makes me sick. Mind you, I'm not a Wallace apologist, or even a huge fan for that matter. Sounds like he might have benefited from better legal counsel in past dealings, although I have no idea about details. However... This is just one more reason for me to avoid all things FRED / Funagain / Gryphon / Eagle. Not that I really needed one.
Really? They actually have a good clean written contract, and people are still Wallace apologists? And yes, you are.
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Sylvain Martel
Canada
Quebec
Qc
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You never sue someone in July-August. That's like attacking after 5pm!
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C Lloyd
United States
North Reading
Massachusetts
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Gilby wrote: clloyd09 wrote: Wow. News like this just makes me sick. Mind you, I'm not a Wallace apologist, or even a huge fan for that matter. Sounds like he might have benefited from better legal counsel in past dealings, although I have no idea about details. However... This is just one more reason for me to avoid all things FRED / Funagain / Gryphon / Eagle. Not that I really needed one. Really? They actually have a good clean written contract, and people are still Wallace apologists? And yes, you are.
Wow Tim, you really know everything, don't you.
I didn't say the contract wasn't well written. In fact I stated "I have no idea about details". What I said was that perhaps he could have used better legal counsel. Meaning that perhaps the contract didn't come out to his advantage. Considering the past issues with Winsome Games, this was just a guess on my part.
Is this just good business by FRED? Maybe, but it doesn't mean I need to like them or appreciate them for it. Personally, I feel that they bring nothing to the table, and are bad for the gaming industry in the long run.
As far as my (not) being a Wallace apologist... I'm not saying "Poor Martin. He's the best -- leave him alone" I'm just saying this is just another reason for me to dislike despise FRED and all that they stand for.
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Michael Buccheri
United States
Glen Arm
Maryland
Sweet Holy Moses, Fruit F*cker Prime!
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Looks to me like Wallace signed something written by lawyers that he shouldn't. Fred is probably legally correct in their suit, but that doesn't make it right, and on whole I would prefer to never purchase anything from them is I can avoid it.
This kind of crap is certainly not good for the hobby.
-M
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Sylvain Martel
Canada
Quebec
Qc
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Gilby wrote: clloyd09 wrote: Wow. News like this just makes me sick. Mind you, I'm not a Wallace apologist, or even a huge fan for that matter. Sounds like he might have benefited from better legal counsel in past dealings, although I have no idea about details. However... This is just one more reason for me to avoid all things FRED / Funagain / Gryphon / Eagle. Not that I really needed one. Really? They actually have a good clean written contract, and people are still Wallace apologists? And yes, you are.
Contracts where with Eagle Games which went bankrupt. FRED bought the assets during the process. What happens to the contracts during bankrupcy, I don't know, I am not familiar with US laws in that field, but I can see how it can easily become blurry for anyone, so I wouldn't say they have a "clean written contract" without more informations.
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Eric Knauer
United States
Heathrow
Florida
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MWChapel wrote:
Intentional infliction of emotional distress.
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Steve Holden
United States
Hudson
Wisconsin
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clloyd09 wrote: I'm just saying this is just another reason for me to dislike despise FRED and all that they stand for.
FRED seems kind of like a cancer that attaches to a healthy host (Martin) to feed from and if the host should die, perhaps another can be found.
Note, that the contract was with Eagle games for "Age of Steam-Eagle Games Variant" = Railroad Tycoon, which Steam is not an iteration of. I also noticed at one point in the complaint, FRED conveniently drops "Eagle Games" from "Age of Steam-Eagle Games Variant" clause to make it sound more applicable to Steam.
(Don't mind me, I'm just venting a little)
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Kevin Rutherford
United States
Perrysburg
Ohio
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Kinwolf wrote: Gilby wrote: clloyd09 wrote: Wow. News like this just makes me sick. Mind you, I'm not a Wallace apologist, or even a huge fan for that matter. Sounds like he might have benefited from better legal counsel in past dealings, although I have no idea about details. However... This is just one more reason for me to avoid all things FRED / Funagain / Gryphon / Eagle. Not that I really needed one. Really? They actually have a good clean written contract, and people are still Wallace apologists? And yes, you are. Contracts where with Eagle Games which went bankrupt. FRED bought the assets during the process. What happens to the contracts during bankrupcy, I don't know, I am not familiar with US laws in that field, but I can see how it can easily become blurry for anyone, so I wouldn't say they have a "clean written contract" without more informations.
Actually, after reading the contract between Martin and Eagle it explicitly spells that the contract was transferrable in the event of mergers or the sale of the company assets. Martin has never carried out any the parts of his end of the deal by the deadlines prescribed.
I don't like FRED much either but they need to set a president on people doing variants of their games. Martin has said that he plans to design some more maps for Steam with the stock rules he included in FRED's Railways of England and Wales expansion.
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Lupi
United States
Virginia
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Yummy, this sounds deserving of the caramel variety.
And I for one look forward to the endless posting and open letters forthcoming.
/popcorn
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W. Dameron
United States
Missouri
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IP Lawyers will have fun with this one.
Is Steam a variant of AoS or a whole new game? Where is the line? I don't now, haven't read any cases on point.
Other questions that may or may not be relevant: What actually happened to the contract through Eagle Games bankruptcy? Was it discharged? No one seems to know. That's what discovery is for! yay!
What is most telling is that I guess this means AoS 3rd isn't getting the sales someone wanted. Otherwise,why are they suing. From a purely economic analysis, AoS 3rd is obviously has a dud, and someone is fishing about for somewhere to lay the blame. To me, that smacks of lawsuit frivolity at its finest.
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Martin Wallace
United Kingdom
Manchester
Unspecified
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I do not want to make too many comments about the case but there is one very important issue which people should be aware of. I do not have an original copy of the contract as it was lost during a house move. The contract included with the summons is a copy of a fax that I sent from a friends fax machine, Jane Longden. It seems that even FRED do not have an original copy of the contract. Note that the second and third pages of the contract do not have her name as a header. The reason is that these pages were not part of the original contract. They have been added subsequently by FRED. No designer would ever sign up to the clauses in those two pages.
Make of that what you will.
Martin Wallace
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C Lloyd
United States
North Reading
Massachusetts
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Frog1 wrote: ...these pages were not part of the original contract. They have been added subsequently by FRED.
Wow.
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skippen
United States
Greeley
Colorado
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Odd that they sue now. FRED was more than aware that Steam has een development at Mayfair for quite awhile.
Not sure what to think of this one. Martin seems to have many issues cropping up.
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James Hamilton
United Kingdom
Stockport
Cheshire
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cscottk wrote: Odd that they sue now. FRED was more than aware that Steam has een development at Mayfair for quite awhile.
Not sure what to think of this one. Martin seems to have many issues cropping up.
Looking at it the other way you could say that FRED seem to have a lot of things cropping up.
I am aware of at least two companies that have had a significant amount of their stock dissapear in the EAGLE / FRED organisation.
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Tim Harrison
United States
Cleveland
Ohio
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Frog1 wrote: Note that the second and third pages of the contract do not have her name as a header. The reason is that these pages were not part of the original contract. They have been added subsequently by FRED.
Based on the PDF file of the summons Martin provides here:
http://warfroggames.com/images/FRED%20summons.pdf
1) pages 2 and 3 are indeed missing the Jane Longden header,
2) pages 2 and 3 are clearly in a much clearer font,
3) the body of text on pages 2 and 3 is much wider than the text on the other pages (margins),
4) paragraphs 8, 10, and 12 are missing from page 3,
5) all of the claimed breaches of contract are found on pages 2 and 3
Again, all I can say is.... WOW!
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Jeff M
United States
Winter Park
Florida
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote: I ran multiple searches of the forums and surprisingly haven't found anything yet, so hear goes...
Actually someone started the disussion under the AoS game forums...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/426250
that discussion is already on page 3 including posts from James Hamilton (though I see Martin has posted in this one so I guess we'll have at least two threads  )
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Christopher Murphy
United States
Winter Springs
Florida
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Frog1 wrote: Note that the second and third pages of the contract do not have her name as a header. The reason is that these pages were not part of the original contract. They have been added subsequently by FRED.
And people were questioning my reasonings for the regret I hold having purchased the 3rd edition printing of Age of Steam before knowing that version's and FRED's legacy. This is absurd, if true.
Assuming Martin's information here is accurate, FRED went from my 'never purchase from' list to my 'angrilly never purchase from' list!
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
Spain
Corvallis
Oregon
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Best of luck to you, Martin.
Your name is indelibly linked in my mind with brilliant design concepts and a seemingly endless flow of deeply satisfying games. FRED, in my mind, conjures images of price-fixing, lawsuits, and assorted weasely business practices.
I think a lot of other gamers share my views, and although it may be hard to put a dollar value on that, it must be worth something in the limited arena of industry that centers around quality games.
Rest assured that I will continue to buy games with your name on them, and purchase FRED products only as a last resort.
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